Anon, whats you opinion about death penalty?
Finns don't need to reply as I know most of them in here are lower class far right faggots.
i honestly think we should have it because keeping people in prison for the rest of their lives is fucking dumb (our lifelong sentence actually means lifelong unlike many other countries)
murder should be an emergency option when establishing order, not a means of punishmnent
one is sane the other psyhcopathic
>>60685834
We should bring it back
>inb4 lefties cry it costs more than prison and is inhumane
Some profligates deserve death. And really, rope or a bullet doesn't cost too much.
>>60686164
>deserve death
t. sadistic psychopath
murder by another name
>>60686190
t. average pussy germ
>>60686218
>i can't read
>>60686164
spending your life in some prisons around the world would be a fate worse than death 2bh.
With every conviction there's a chance the system made a mistake. With the death penalty there's no going back to fix the mistake.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackstone's_formulation
This is a necessary approach for a civilised society.
It should be mandatory for most serious crimes where the evidence is clear. For example we have a fucker who beheaded a woman who taught italian. He tried to escape Europe, he was caught in Malta. Evidence is clear: he cut her body into pieces and tried to move it somewhere in a travel bag, thanks to his mommy-prosecutor he almost escaped Europe. Now thanks to his mommy his staying in psych ward and his stay is extended infinetly. He said if he will go out he will kill once again. The only way to not waste tax payers money is to hang him and obviously put in jail his mommy but in this fucked up country it will not take place.
>>60685834
In my opinion we should gather a group of those death row inmates every time once in a while, and then have them fight in an arena death match or some hunger games tv show.
Last man standing gets to live.
>>60686407
Worse happens, and it's really you being too pussy to process the the graphic depection of the circumstances that lead you to project your own filth onto that poor sick human being who needs the help of the community.
It's up to the skjills of the community to what degree he can be helped. The woman is dead.
>>60685834
Bring it back
>Inb4 Youll get it with Sharia
>>60686164
>it costs more than prison
Why? Can someone explain the logic behind this?
Thanks
>>60686753
Legal fees of additional appeals against the death penalty drive up costs substantially
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty
That's for America but a similar thing applies to any country that actually has a proper justice system.
>>60686799
>Defense costs were about three times as high in death penalty cases and prosecution costs were as much as four times higher than for non-death penalty cases
well damn, i am still not sure if its the same case in third-world countries too tho
>This is purely about the economics; whether or not it’s worth the investment is up to the public
meh
>>60685834
It's wrong, and hypocritical when the convicted criminal is being punished for killing someone. Killing the prisoners sentenced to death serves no extra benefit for society, as the prisoners have very little chance of escaping, and if they do, remaining at large for a long time.
>>60685961
There should be something such as assisted suicide, where the criminal can either choose to serve their live sentence, or end it all. I know I'd take the latter option if I were in their place.
There's also the risk of wrongful executions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrongful_execution
>>60686164
Who are you to decide whether someone deserves death?
>>60687016
>Killing the prisoners sentenced to death serves no extra benefit for society
How about redemption for the victims family (if they want to do so obv)
>>60686261
Some people deserve death; murderers, terrorists, rapists, pedophiles,...
>>60686266
That's true but our system is nowhere close. It's like a hotel.
>>60687016
See my first point.
im %100 pro death-penalty
terrorists, murderers, rapists, traitors of cunt definitely deserve death
i also believe those who do any terrorist-organization propoganda deserve it
>>60687367
>Some profligates deserve death
>Some people deserve death; murderers, terrorists, rapists, pedophiles
As bad as all these things are, the people who commit them are still Human. If killing another Human is wrong, it would also be wrong for a state to do so.
This also establishes a slippery slope, where the amount of crimes deserving of death may be expanded. Where does the line stop? Bodily harm?
>>60687546
It's not about right or wrong, it's about keeping order.
Murderers rapists and child molesters cause permanent harm to society so they should be removed.
>>60686614
>>60685834
Interesting thing, it kindof goes like this here
>do some really bad shit (armed robby, hit your wife with a car, rape)
>go to jail for a really fuggin long time
>do some REALLY BAD SHIT (Serial rapist, kill like 3 people)
>The state will execute you
>Do some REALLY REALLY REALLY bad shit (Boston bomber, Oklahoma City bombing)
>They deem death too kind, and put you in a supermax which is basically a torture until your eventual natural death
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVCRjdN3UTM
>>60687682
I agree with you. But Murders, rapists and child molesters are already 'removed' from society (incarcerated), with very little chance of them escaping.
Not a fan. It wastes millions of dollars in resources and there's always a chance that you may be executing an innocent.
That said, some people deserve to be caged and to suffer for what they've done. That's what solitary is for.
Well being Norwegian i used tothink that the death penalty was wrong but after what Anders behring breivik did.i think i might be necessary, if the crime is extreme enough.
>>60687948
I suppose you're right, but it just feels wrong to me to allow such people to live/live a decent life when their victims never got the chance.
Problem with topics like this is that neither the pro-death penalty or the anti-death penalty people are wrong, both sides have strong points and good counter arguments.
It just feels a waste to feed clothe and house such dysfunctional people when you could get rid of them for good.
>>60687948
You have to take care of the bastards. The easiest thing is to end it for them.
I'd be okay with keeping criminals in spartan conditions and force them to work or be beaten tqbh.
What's your ultimate goal to life?
Death?
>>60688337
I always thought it would be funny to bring back colosseums, let them fight each other to death.
We charge entry and we earn money instead of losing money when killing them.
Plus we could host non-lethal fights which would create more jobs and it would keep thugs, who are spoiling for a fight, off the street as they could just become a gladiator and crack skulls that way.
Only one way to solve this:
http://www.strawpoll.me/10464377
>>60685834
It's barbaric and thank God we don't have it.
>>60687162
>redemption
is not justice, nor vengence
What kind of a cuck wants his government to have the power to execute him whenever they want.
Sometimes sparing a villain's life causes another death of a good civilian.
Thus I support death penalty.
Doesn't have a place in a free society. That state and its courts shouldn't have the right to murder any of its own citizens, no matter the circumstances.
>>60688981
So letting criminals, who show no remorse, live in a quasi-hotel is justice?
>>60688585
fucking this
Bread and games, motherfucker.
>>60689290
as long as they are forever separated from the society what else can you do?
cut them into little pieces to satisfy your bloodlust?
>>60689505
How about not waste taxpayer money's on accomodating a miserable, incurable, worthless piece of shit?
He's shown zero remorse and never will. Fucking hang him and be done with it.
>>60685834
Good pop control method and dissuades criminals. Fuck leftist humanitarian dostoevsky existentialist fagbois.
>>60686135
This.
The State shouldn't be an instrument for vengeance. A murder victim's loved ones won't be better off if the killer is executed.
"Closure" is a pop psychology term and doesn't really exist in a meaningful sense.
>>60689679
based dueterte
>>60689505
>as long as they are forever separated from the society
>forever
yeah, about that
>what else can you do?
The thing is, that with the current system rapists, murderers, terrorists dont even have to re-socialize or re-educated since they dont have to fear anything, no reprisal, not even forced work or anything (well maybe their relatives outside the coffin will be lynched but who the f*ck even cares about stuff like this?). Nice justice we have here, srs
>MUH EMPATHY!!!!
Merkel has really done a number on you Yurocucks hasn't she
>>60689632
the dealing of death is not something anyone or anything should have to power of, you can always give them the choice for physical labor but you can't force them to comply
>>60689679
death sentences does not dissuade wrongdoers
>>60689724
the method maybe broken but killing people in the name of justice is not right
>>60689848
maybe, but giving them a more or less comfy life as "punishment" isnt justice either, the victim and their families will stay victims and can only get some satisfaction through monetary compensation after all
>>60690042
the "punishment" or the seeking of redemption has to be from the individual of his free will
the state's job is to make sure this person cannot do it again by separating him, because the most heinous crime cannot be traded back in materially
>>60689724
>The thing is, that with the current system rapists, murderers, terrorists dont even have to re-socialize or re-educated since they dont have to fear anything
People who commit the types of crimes that make them end up in prison for life aren't exactly the 'reasonable' type of criminals which you could deter with punishment. Just take a look at the Middle East, or past centuries if you will, when the death penalty was still in place. It's not like people committed less crimes.
There are lots of reasons against the death penalty.
A very good one for example is that you don't want to give the government the toolset to make people disappear. The higher the hurdle, the better. And if even the vilest types of people are treated humanely, then it would be a lot harder to justify drastic means against political opposition in front of the general populace.
Another good argument is that false convictions exist. The judicial system is not flawless and the death penalty is permanent and can never be amended. Under that premise, it would be unjust to demand a system where criminals are killed for revenge, since the same system would result in the killing of innocents.
>wrongful executions
yeah, the planes crash too sometimes, we do not decide to stop using them just because it might kill innocents at some point
>>60690145
>the most heinous crime cannot be traded back in materially
Well but this is how the current things work tho, taking the individual will from law is understandable but exchanging it with money? Meh
>by separating him
Also keep in mind that "some" of those are allowed to return to society, in some cases these commited another crimes after being released to be fed by the state again. Sure I shouldnt generalize and some will show remorse or whatever, but it really seems to be fucked up
>>60690408
the compensation is for the calculated loss to the relative the government pays for it because the criminal lost the ability to pay himself
but this doesn't mean it is punishment in itself because life should be traded for money since people do get killed for insurance payout, this doesn't mean the government has the right to kill people, it just means that there is no other reasonable way to compensate for a loss of life
and the thing with the right to return to society, it is dependent on the society itself because this criminal is after all or rather was a part of it, a previous member of the herd so to speak
>>60690649
life shouldn't be*
There should be a three strikes rule.
Commit 3 minor crimes? Death Penalty.
>>60690319
>A very good one for example is that you don't want to give the government the toolset to make people disappear.
>Implying governments in countries without capital punishments dont do that
China or NK are atleast """"honest"""" while people in other countries get killed by "accidents" etc
>False convictions
Sure, I wont deny that while I also think that people who will be incarsonated for 10+ years are probably in a living hell too tho
>>60690398
The difference is that planes are beneficial to society.
>>60690958
>China or NK are atleast """"honest"""" while people in other countries get killed by "accidents" etc
>tips tinfoil hat
>I also think that people who will be incarsonated for 10+ years are probably in a living hell too tho
Which is why prisons shouldn't be horrible places but correctional facilities most of all. Their purpose shouldn't be primarily punishment but making sure that people don't do what got them in prison ever again.
>>60690649
>there is no other reasonable way to compensate for a loss of life
Well maybe we have some different view points here: For me the most important and enraging part of this debate is that the convicted criminal is getting away with almost no harms and no duties except that he cannot exit his cell, so I dont really give a damn about if its right or not if a state-system should be given the right to end his life or not. It is unfair. Point. Is the death penalty completely okay? Def not. However there are too many flaws in the current system too
It seems wrong that murder would be illegal, except for the state. Like some other anon said earlier it's a slippery slope. How long before the death penalty gets normalized to a degree that prisons are turned into deathcamps?
It just seems like a bad idea to me.
>>60691126
>Their purpose shouldn't be primarily punishment but making sure that people don't do what got them in prison ever again.
>Give them a second chance for their life while spitting on the victim, because well... they are HUMANS too
>Also implying it will work
>>60691571
1 it doesn't need to work
2 victims have a right to peace but not further violence
>>60685834
This ancient barbaric shit should be abolished world wide.
>>60692482
>it doesn't need to work
>victims have a right to peace but no way to gain it
Neiß
Say that on average around 4% of all people who are sentenced to death were found innocent afterwards.
Isn't that enough reason to abolish the death sentence? At least with a life sentence you can compensate the innocent afterwards.
>>60692717
killing people legitimizes that violence is a reasonable price for peace
this is a selfish act because violence is eternal and victims aplenty
>>60692818
Victory goes to the swiftest and survival of the fittest, huh?
>>60691571
>also implying it will work
bullshit, it is proven that old-fashioned jails are shit compared to modern, re-integtating jails, as far as recidivism goes
>>60693202
when you have a population pressure like india and china life becomes cheaper
it's no longer about how victim feels but whether or not the government can get away with making people disappear
capital punishment is taken for granted by rich countries
>>60685834
I got a lot of shit for this in my old social criminality class but I said that it should be allowed in cases of premeditated murder. I got a C because my professor disagreed with me. Never mind that it was a carefully worded essay with logical arguments to support my ideas.
Fuck that guy. All he did was parrot the edicts modern social justice and shun anyone who disagreed with him like a playground bully.
>>60685834
There's no reason to do so besides jerking yourself off over how cool and edgy you are.
>>60695603
Better than Sweden where you can commit mass-murder and have a big shit grin on your face because you know you're going to spend twenty years at a spa.
>>60685834
If you want my honest opinion it should be brought back in the form of firing squads less hassle compared to injection.
>>60685834
>as I know most of them in here are lower class far right faggots.
What? Most of the people here are pretty fucking centrists. Also implying about lower class makes you such a high and mighty upperclass twit, right?
I hope the president brings back death penalty just once and shoots you in the face, personally.
Your kind of dumb is not needed around here.
>>60685834
Truly heinous individuals should be given the death penalty provided they received fair trial by their peers.
Truly heinous individuals meaning people with massive body counts, multiple offenders of major violent crimes (rape, murder, mass destruction), war criminals, etc...
But not for everyone. Some people can be rehabilitated but there's no reason to let horrible individuals plague the earth anymore.
t. Catholic
>>60697482
Still our death row need a total revamp. Like kill them instantly when it's obvious that they're a mass murderer instead of having them sit in a cell for twenty years and eat eggs and bacon like a dumbass.
>>60698881
Oh without a doubt. Take it one step further and say that our entire prison system needs a total revamp as well. Bring back chain gangs and make all of the gangbangers go to work rebuilding our infrastructure.
>>60685834
I don't trust the courts nor the state enough to give them more power over people's literal life.
>>60697482
>>60698881
>not forced labour
I seriously don't get you people
>>60686407
>It should be mandatory for most serious crimes where the evidence is clear
In theory there is no such thing as a sentenced person where the evidence wasn't clear. Not legally. By law, all doubts are always resolved in favor of the accused, which implies the evidence was clear in every case where someone was sentenced. There's no such thing as "we're 99% certain it was him". You can't write a law where you hang people "only when the evidence is clear" without shitting all over the very foundations of the penal procedure code.
>>60686164
Agreed
>>60699248
By law not all doubt has to be resolved but to within "reasonable doubt". There is no such thing as 100 % certainty.
Tons of people don't deserve to live, but I don't think it's the government's job to kill its own civilians. If they want to kill themselves they should be given the option, but life in prison seems like a more fitting punishment.
>>60685834
Should be illegal. There's no reason to kill criminals other than "muh feelings" arguments.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNarYKEaHgY
AWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!
>>60689632
You're wasting taxpayers money regardless by killing them due to the expense of legal processes.
>>60689724
Brevik can be jailed for life via a loophole in Norwegian law stating that the mentally ill can be kept indeterminately.
>>60699413
Of course it does, except when there are so many that it's a burden on the taxpayers. And the problem isn't the lifers, but the people who are in-and-out all the time despite being constant multiple offenders. That's part of why Chicago has a gang problem because the judges are far too fucking lenient on the dindus there.
>>60699317
In dubio pro reo is right there in our code - "Doubt impossible to remove is resolved in favor of the accused". Together with presumption of innocence it does mean that, in theory, there's no such thing as a sentencing done without certainty of the accused being guilty.
Hell, there's a supreme court verdict here where they literally state that proving the accused's guilt has to be "complete, certain and free from any doubt".
>>60697362
He's probably the rotter or the nignog.
>>60688067
Wasn't he taking care of your muzzie problem?
It's good to abolish the death penalty when you don't need it.
But I'm not principally against it. Especially during times of war and in countries with lots of violent crime it can be very useful.
>>60685834
Anyone who argues for needs to be slammed with Victor Hugo books.
It is cruel, inhuman, playing god, it is NOT an dissuasive tool.
Justice isn't vengeance.
Was for it until I see how many people the innocence project cleared.
>>60702108
That's not a problem of the death penalty, but of that joke is your police and justice system. muhh jury of peers. More like jury of /pol/'s.
>>60687016
>and hypocritical when the convicted criminal is being punished for killing someone.
What is context?
So if a company commits fraud the government suing them for money is 'hypocritical' as well?
> Killing the prisoners sentenced to death serves no extra benefit for society
It get's rid of a dangerous member who cannot/does not abide by the laws and stays a potential threat to everyone else/ a specific demographic.
>have very little chance of escaping, and if they do, remaining at large for a long time.
This is wrong and again relies on an advanced and capable law system which can be trusted 100% which is not the case.
>There's also the risk of wrongful executions.
You at once place so much trust in the institution for locking them away indefintiely without chance of them escaping or at least being able to retrieve them quickly before they can resume being a menace yet cannot trust them to pass a rightful decision in whether the death penalty is correct?
HYPOCRITE!
>>60702154
*that joke that is
>>60685834
Nah, the government should not decide about life and dead, they are too corrupt for such a power
It's just legalised mob justice, executing citizens to appease the bloodthirsty underclass is a step closer to barbarism.
>>60687367
>Some people deserve death; murderers, terrorists, rapists, pedophiles...
Idiots like yourself who do not want to have a lawful society with a fair judgement which looks at circumstances and considers mentality/psychology of those involved in said events...
>>60685834
In a perfect world I would be for the death penalty.
But systematising it brings up way too many problems, from practical to moral.
When it boils down to it the main reason I'm against it is I hate the idea of granting some authority the right to execute the people it governs.
>>60702238
Locking up people who you never want to release on the streets again is pretty useless. And a burden to everyone.
I propose workcamps.
Physical work for the rest of their lives, this way they still will be useful. Disobeying gets you physical punishment, cat-o-nine-tails should do the trick, make others convicts watch it as well.
>>60685834
what the bags for?
>>60685834
I know too well what that is. A really fast and easy way to shut someone's mouth. Should be banned everywhere desu.
>>60685834
Why do americans claim to love freedom but then also love the death penalty?
Don't they see the inherent contradiction there?
>I will NEVER give my guns to the government!
>but I will give them the right to take my life!
>>60702424
In case the prisoner requests to feel boobies for one last time.
I fail to see why it's so hard too differentiate between prisoners that should be put into rehabilitative-styled prisons (burglars, thieves, rapists) and people who deserve to be strung up by their necks.
Or are people going to insist that all criminals should be 'rehabilitated' and returned to society, as though people like Anders Breivik will ever be anything more than a constant, international embarrassment to his justice system as he successfully lobbies for better videogames in his hotel room.
>We hold these truths to be sacred & undeniable; that all men are created equal & independent, that from that equal creation they derive rights inherent & inalienable, among which are the preservation of life, & liberty, & the pursuit of happiness
>nah wait forget about that life part lol
>>60685834
If for economics reasons you can be denied certain treatment on the NHS I see no reason why you can't be put to death if keeping you alive costs more.
>>60687016
>Who are you to decide whether someone deserves death?
he doesnt, society does. thats just the way it works.
"Kill them all, God will know His own."
>>60702886
Because the concept of imprisoning someone doesn't infringe upon their right to liberty and pursuit of happiness right?
>>60703039
impinge, yes
annihilate, no
I'm kinda on the fence, like most issues heh.
>>60702624
>Why do americans claim to love freedom but then also love [punishing people who take the freedom from others]?
>Don't they see the inherent contradiction there?
No, I don't.
>>60703024
"Let any one of you who isn't an idol worshipping catholic be the first to throw a stone at her."
depends on what he do :~~~~~~~~~)
I think it is deserved in some cases but I can't support giving the power to kill citizens to the government.
Very much opposed. The state should not be in the business of executing people. Plus its more expensive and you can never be absolutely sure.
>>60685834
They should make everyone whose in favor of the death penalty eligible for it
>>60686407
To be fair, chopping a dead body is a good way to hide it. It's cruel and far from tasteful, but it can serve a successful escape well.
No. If someone commits a crime that deserves a death penalty, he'll just murder his way through the cops that catch him, or just kill himself. He'll probably think "fuck it, they're going to kill me anyway". Just like the guy from Orlando.
If we give them an unhumane prison, he'll be less likely to commit any crime at all.
This has been a good thread so far. Thanks to all.
t.OP
>>60699086
this is basically the right answer
If you jail someone and later find out they were innocent, you can free them.
Hard to do that with the death penalty.
humans cannot know what is absolute right thus the punishment should be functional to the reduction of behavior that is harmful to society, we cannot know "who" deserves "what".
then people invoking death penalty just need to satisfy their weak moral sense
>>60685834
Anyone else seeing goatse?
>>60685834
No. There are fates way worse than death.
>>60689632
If you kill your enemies, they win.
>>60687016
there are probably less than 10 people here serving a lifetime, so the risk of wrongful execution is probably very little
only the our king can get you out of jail once you've been given a life sentence
>>60685834
eh its less retarded than life imprisonment and saves money because its fucking costly to keep a guy in prison for life
