How similar is Portugese and Spanish?
Can both sides understand some of the others language?
>>60056493
We can understand a vulgar level, but at the level technical i do not understand a shit. We can talk on 4chan together, but I can not read a physics book in Portuguese.
>>60056493
We can understand them
They are 600% incapable of understanding a single word we say
Every time I went to Isla Mágica I felt like punching the cashier
>>60057030
i can into portuguese
fica pra casa filho da puta!
>>60057030
Che galle de debajo del rio puto
>>60056493
>How similar is Portugese and Spanish?
Very.
>Can both sides understand some of the others language?
Yes to different extents:
Portuguese understand Spanish better than Spaniards understand Portuguese.
Written language is easy to understand; almost no effort needed. You'd need to get into very technical stuff and complex poetry to completely get lost.
Spoken language in not understandable for Spaniards, but I believe Portuguese can understand us better here too. We can have conversations, but slowly -which makes it a very frustrating "grandma" talk from both sides-, otherwise everything flies over our head.
All of this is with EU Portuguese and Spanish, I don't know about LatAm.
we can understand them, but they can't understand us.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXk6PRzooq0
>>60057179
I understand you.
>>60056493
It's simple:
Written portuguese and spanish: 95% the same
Spoken languages: portuguese has a very hard accent that makes words difficult to understand. spanish doesn't
so portuguese understand spanish pretty well
but spaniards only if they speak slowly
>>60057179
not even us can understand you
>>60057179
actually we can understand brazilian but not portuguese
>>60057111
>>60057118
I will rip out your guts and make them into cheap chouriço
Don't you fucking DARE to cross the border
>>60057125
Exactly the same thing sempai.
ps: your version is more understandable than porteños
>>60057280
It is what the mother of a childhood friend of mine screamed at dinnertime. she was Portuguese
>>60057258
is there any latin american spanish accents you can't understand?
or all of them are pretty normal for you
Spanish
>GIVE JOB
Portugese
>GIVE FOOD
I have an easy time understanding written protuguese and not too advanced spoken portuguese as well. Once they start throwing in slang I get completely lost and it kinda sounds like some form of russian dialect.
>>60057179
So when you want to learn both of spanish and portuguese, learning portuguese first is better?
>>60057451
Chilean spanish is almost unintelligible with other spanish dialects
>>60057516
>English
GIVE PAKI COCK
>>60057588
if you want to learn both, then yes, and I would recommend brazilian portuguese, since it's closer to the spanish accent.
>>60057451
chilean is pretty difficult sometimes. (anyways, this can happen inside spain, f.ex andalusia)
but spanish spoken in news/tv/films/meetings is 100% understandable in all hispanic countries
We can't understand them when they speak too fast
>>60057516
>talk shit about enemy countries from centuries ago because butthurt
>spend 25% of your income in "costa"
>spend 100% of your retirement income in "costa"
It goes something like this:
Spanish and Portuguese are very similar when written. I think both sides can very easily understand what they're reading. If I go to /esp/ I'll understand pretty much everything that is being said. As >>60057125 mentioned, unless we're reading really technical stuff or poetry, we'll both be okay.
When it comes to understanding speech it's a different case. Personally I understand most of what Spanish people say. But Spanish people seem to rarely understand what Portuguese people say which, to be fair, is understandable because Portuguese people honestly sound like they're talking underwater. However I think it's not the same when we're talking about Brazilian Portuguese (many of which also have a hard time understanding PTPT). Spanish people seem to understand them better, since they talk in a more open and clear manner.
Personally I think SA Spanish is even easier to understand. I think they speak slower.
>>60057588
I think the best would be to learn Portuguese, yes. And maybe Brazilian Portuguese since it's clearer and easier to understand. PTPT is like hard mode and you'll understand both PTBR and Spanish if you learn it first. Learning PTBR might hinder your understanding of PTPT.
>>60056493
I really depends on the accent. The written language is similar enough that you can understand most of what is said, but the spoken language is another matter entirely. I think Latin American Spanish speakers and Brazilians can understand each other the best. Usually, Portuguese speakers will understand Spanish better than the other way around, especially in the case of European Spanish and European Portuguese. You have to understand that Spanish speakers pronounce every single vowel, while European Portuguese speakers tend to swallow and omit a lot of vowels. There is also the problem of nasal vowels, which are present in Portuguese, but not in Spanish.
So you could say that from the perspective of Portuguese, Spanish has a pretty clear "spelling pronunciation" while the Portuguese seem to swallow half the word.
>>60057214
>PORTUGUESE
>HARD ACCENT
You must be refering to northen portuguese, you guys are the ones who speak like your on a race to finish a sentence. I live 18km from spain and i understand and speak spanish perfectly. However, the spanish people i know around here don't even make an effort to understand portuguese. i guess some of you guys are still buthurt about batalha de aljubarrota...
Still, very very similar languages. But being portuguese one of the most magnificent and beautiful idioms in the world, you wouldn't expect spanish burros to understand it.
>>60058626
Ironically, European Portuguese sounds more Slavic than Romanian, which is basically half-Slavic anyway.
>>60058626
it's the opposite, southern portuguese is the most dificult for spaniards and brazilians to understand. Even I don't understand a few words of this song.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yusAPpjSYU
What about italian? Who understands it better, Spaniards or Portugeese?
>>60058626
>You must be refering to northen portuguese, you guys are the ones who speak like your on a race to finish a sentence
While there's a study that said that Spanish is the second "fastest" language in the world, I still don't understand this meme. We speak just like everyone else.
>However, the spanish people i know around here don't even make an effort to understand portuguese. i guess some of you guys are still buthurt about batalha de aljubarrota...
It's a simpler reason: Portuguese always understand Spanish, making Portuguese "useless" for the average Manolo. Yes, it's the same mentality as "why would I learn any other language, I'm American".
>you wouldn't expect spanish burros to understand it
I'm sorry you are bothered by Spanish being one of the 3 great literature languages, but, come on, get over it.
>>60058825
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8DrXK8WS4k northern accent is easier, we pronounce vowels clearer
>>60058870
Spaniards who also speak catalan/valencian/balearic
So they share basically 95% of italian vocabulary
>>60058870
Spaniards I think, I don't understand more than 20% of spoken italian, and 50% of written
>>60059013
Are you serious? Italian is really easy to understand. They speak very clearly.
>>60058881
>I'm sorry you are bothered by Spanish being one of the 3 great literature languages, but, come on, get over it.
Nah u can keep that, i just want the free pussy i get everytime i go to your country
PS: 75% of spanish guys (18-30yo) look the same and have the same haircut, why?
>>60058870
I can understand almost everything of italian. Especially when spoken (the inverse happens in the rest of languages).
It's the easiest language for me, I am even able to watch italian gameplays. They speak clear and we have the same words and expressions for a lot of things
>>60059077
not to me.
It's because the vocabulary is already a bit too different, I still understand it far better than french
>>60059077
Italian is very difficult to understand.
>>60059110
>i just want the free pussy i get everytime i go to your country
You say it as if getting easy touristboos gilrs was some kindof accomplishment.
>PS: 75% of spanish guys (18-30yo) look the same
Because they are, indeed, SPANISH? Did you expect a population of mostly iberian-mediterraneans to be very different? I have to also ask where you went to say this.
>and have the same haircut, why?
It's the fashionable thing to do. Aren't Spanish guys known outside of Spanish because of our hairstyles? I don't know about you, but I like the fringe to the side with gradual sides.
>>60059162
Yeah, they do tend to use a few different words, but it mostly aligns with French:
trovare - trouver - hallar - achar
cercare - chercher - buscar - procurar
mangiare - manger - comer - comer
paura - peur - miedo - medo
>>60059152
Spanish and Italian are very similar: I can understand most of written Spanish, due to very similar vocabulary. Spoken spanish is harder, though.
>>60059013
It's the same the other way around. Portuguese is much more difficult than spanish for an Italian.
>>60058817
Fine by me tbqh, slavic languages sound pretty cool.
>>60059365
Technically, Italian is more similar in vocabulary to French than Spanish or Portuguese, see here: >>60059342
>>60059444
French is much harder than Spanish to understand tbqh familia
>>60059513
Obviously. I was just saying that Italian and French shares a lot of vocabulary, but French has undergone such a different development than most other Romance languages that it's become unintelligible to all other Romance speakers. Compared to Italian, the French basically only pronounce half of the word.
>>60059342
This makes me wonder if italians can understand french the same way pt speakers understand esp speakers
>>60059342
trobar
cercar
menjar
por
That's why valencians / catalans understand italian almost perfectly.
other spaniards don't.
Do italians understand valencian?
and portuguese?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GW7YuIy9KCk
>>60059640
Not at all, especially when spoken. Italian and spanish are more similar in both spelling and pronunciation.
>>60059640
No one can understand French, anon. They only pronounce half of the word, have a guttural R unlike the other Romance languages and they have up to 17 (!) vowels compared to Spanish's 5 vowels and Italian's 7 vowels.
>>60059738
some of it, much less than spanish though, between 55 and 65%, spanish between 70/90%, galician more than 90%
>>60059738
Catalan/Valencian are even easier than spanish.
Portoguese is much harder, even if you can understand some of it when written.
>>60057280
What border?
>>60059640
Spoken french is hard as fuck, but I can understand most of a written text even with my very poor knowledge of the language based on some trips to Nice
>>60059977
It is forbidden to touch those by law.
t. First in line to inherit a very large property
>>60059882
thought is the same language, catalans have a harder accent than valencians
it's more similar to italian. some words also.
>>60059738
more or less, the accent is pretty nice but certain words got me lost
>>60059977
NO YOU ASS! DON'T SHOW THE PORTUBROS OUR INVASION PLAN!
galicians are cucks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybQecR1WuCk
I understand European Spanish better than Latin American Spanish. I can barely understand anything Paraguayans and Argentinians say for example but Euro Spanish is very easy.
>>60060160
I always laugh when people say that if we joined Spain our language wouldn't disappear eventually.
We literally speak better Galician than Galicians, you have to be insanely deluded to believe we would keep our language in the long-term.
>>60060160
>they even pronounce the final "-d" as "-th"
The ugliest and stupidest accentual characteristic of my city is the one thing the rest of the country is picking up.
FUCK
MY
LIFE
>>60060160
many galicians have blue eyes....is rare here......
for example this guy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZsNDandeBk
>>60059779
>having more than 5 vowels
B-but that is HERESY!
>>60060071
more random videos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZFfc5hXIFs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fHIq1qbWxs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjhbmN3kLgg
>>60060532
There's 7 in Eastern Andalusian too. And I happen to speak that d-dialect.
>>60060321
That's a completely different matter. With Franco anything that wasn't castellano was forbidden, making the bilingual population even rearer.
Before Franco castellano was the official language of the country but the second official language for several regions.
>>60060160
Why do they wear their caps like that?
In this video i can 05% understand what the narrator says, but when the woman talks i get lost. Why is that?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTShQma8lUw
>>60058881
>average manolo
>>60060771
>05%
95%*
>>60060643
I'm not making explicit exactly how it happens. But the truth is that eventually and for whatever reasons at any given time in the future you start losing your language. It's inevitable, it has happened every single time in history with smaller regions that share the same set of circumstances.
>>60060704
It rains a lot
>>60060478
Uy si, rarisimo...
>>60060771
Wow, I can understand a lot too.
Maybe is because I'm more familiar with it but I prefer Brazilian pronunciation tho.
what percentage of this autist speech do you guys understand, she's from central-northern Portugal, where I'm from as well
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZF9LCwg3Sik
ignore the eyebrows
>>60060478
Parece un moro con ojos azules
>>60060909
La comparación no tiene sentido, Galicia es pequeña e irrelevante, es normal que el gallego no tenga tanta importancia como el castellano.
>>60060771
>mfw I completely understand the man too
>mfw I cannott comprehend the woman either
>>60060643
But the Galician becaming weakear and weaker is thanks to the PP.
> Preguntado por este periódico, el departamento de Jesús Vázquez ha eludido valorar el gran aumento del monolingüismo en castellano entre los niños que refleja el estudio. La consellería considera que el informe del IGE demuestra “el alto equilibrio en el uso de las dos lenguas cooficiales conseguido en la enseñanza no universitaria”. Y subraya que el gallego sigue siendo el idioma hegemónico en Galicia porque los que declaran hablar esta lengua siempre o mayoritariamente suman el 50,9%. Lo que no recoge el comunicado de la consellería es que ese porcentaje alcanzaba el 56,4% hace cinco años y el 61,2% hace una década. A Mesa pola Normalización Lingüística afirma que el retroceso del gallego es “un reflejo claro de la política” de la Xunta.
>Cuando tomó posesión como presidente, el popular Alberto Nuñez Feijóo impulsó un modelo lingüístico en las escuelas cuyo pilar básico —el “derecho” de elección del idioma por parte de los padres— ha sido tumbado sucesivamente por varias sentencias que, según acaba de revelar el Tribunal Superior de Xustiza de Galicia, la Consellería de Educación ni siquiera está acatando.
>>60056493
>not including slovene master race language
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0DO0XyS8Ko
>>60061032
*Irrelevante relativamente, sin animo de ofender
>>60060983
99%
>>60061093
not bad!!
>>60060983
75% consiguió la permanencia?
>>60061145
sim, por 3pontos
>>60060909
I'd be surprised if Catalán ever disappears just like I would be surprised of Portuguese being lost be the Portuguese.
>>60060983
Madrilean here and if I pay attention, I understand practically everything. Unlike with>>60060771 where I don't need to put my full brain to understand the man.
>>60061032
Portugal is tiny and irrelevant too, it's just not as tiny nor irrelevant. It would simply mean it would take longer, it's a matter of time. I find it quite sad that the last region to speak Galician properly isn't even in Galicia, and it's pretty evident that Galicians aren't going to be the ones to preserve it.
>>60061190
A language won't disappear per se obviously, but it will always eventually be reduced to second place in it's home turf and with a residual population.
>>60061195
>tfw when portuguese is the 6th natively spoken language in the world
>muh galicians
>>60061295
>Discussing a hipothetical scenario where Portugal joins Spain
>Not paying attention
>>60061257
I still disagree with that.
Catalán for forbidden for 40 years, yet it's the primary language of Cataluña. This is because of the people of Cataluña, who kept it alive even in dire times.
If there's any country that wouldn't allow Castellano to overcome their own mother tongue, that is Portugal.
>>60057125
the here same too
>>60058870
I understand few of spoken Italian but very little of written Italian, actually I understand written French more.
>>60060983
I literally dont understand a word that she said
>>60061420
you're canadian, no surprise
>>60061376
It's already happening there, it's just that Catalans are putting up a gargantuan losing fight so that doesn't happen to their language.
It's a tiring, and very fatiguing fight, a fight that bruises unity within a country and within a regional nation itself, and one best not fought, but avoided.
>>60061420
vela y monolingo
>>60059342
"pavor" can be used as a synonym for "miedo" in Spanish. Idk about Portuguese
>>60061515
yea pavor is also a thing in portuguese
>>60061486
>It's already happening there
It isn't, though. Catalán is growing every year. There are more Catalán speakers than there are Catalán people, that should tell you something.
>>60061420
Are you a native French speaker?
>>60060983
Does she has a speech impediment?
>>60061651
no lol, regular speech and accent here.
I suspect she's a bit autistic though.
>>60061420
this
>>60061486
I don't think so. Basques and Galicians are losing the fight. Aragonese lost centuries ago. But Catalan has gone through various periods of prohibition and right now it's as strong as it has ever been, even with the milions of immigrants from other parts of Spain.
>>60061753
you're british, no surprise
>>60061624
You're making the fallacy of considering not only the short term, which is cogent on political/economic/social cycles, but also disregarding the fact that what you want is actual speakers who use it in their daily lives as a mother language; when you said "There are more Catalán speakers than there are Catalán people" you forgot to mention that "These figures only reflect potential speakers; today it is the native language of only 35.6% of the Catalan population.".
Furthermore, the Catalans have to fight daily for their language. This is a horrible and tiring thing to do day after day after day, and best left avoided.
You have to take all these things into consideration and a simple, basic axiom is that if we want to preserve our language we should not join Spain.
>>60061812
see >>60061888
Also self-check'em
>>60061695
You know what, I listened for a second time and I understood more I suppose that it was because I have never heard portuguese from portugal before.
except for Civ 5 but I suspect it was poorly done just as in spanish.
>>60061888
I'm a Catalan and I sure you the language is in no danger here. EVERYTHING is in Catalan. The administration is in catalan, the education is in catalan, we have as much national public tv channels as the rest of the country combined.
There is nothing horrible and tiring about it because there isn't a fight.
As a percentage of population in Catalonia yes, there are less catalan speakers than 100 years ago, thanks for the 2-3m people that came here to work. But there are more in number. All their children know and can speak it.
>>60061888
Nice repeating digits.
Also:
>"These figures only reflect potential speakers; today it is the native language of only 35.6% of the Catalan population.".
No, this is the % of people who claim it as "their native language", what you are disregarding is the fact that there's a lot of Catalanes who consider both Castellano and Catalán their native languages.
>Furthermore, the Catalans have to fight daily for their language
This is straight up false. Again, Catalán is the first language of Cataluña, and I meant to the fullest extent. TV is in Catalán, Radio is in Catalán, the congress is in Catalán -with only PP speaking in Castellano. Everything is in Catalán first, and then in Castellano in case someone doesn't speak it.
>You have to take all these things into consideration
I do, that's why I say that Cataluña is proof of concept that 2 languages can live together.
>if we want to preserve our language we should not join Spain.
I'm going to keep on disagreeing. Portuguese has a whole set of benefits to it; unlike catalán, euskera and gallego, there's Brazil and the African Ex-colonies.
I feel you don't have much hope for Portuguese to remain Portuguese.
You proved yourselves so in Aljubarrota and then in 1640.
>should not join Spain
This really isn't my point -a Union with Spain as a threat to Portuguese-, but the pure pride you Portuguese have to let your own identity fall. But the again, I feel you underestimate your own countrymen.
>>60062206
We will see, I obviously wish I'm wrong but in the grand scheme of things languages of smaller nations within countries always tend to, maybe not die out, but get thrown into this state of limbo and sustained artificially.
Who knows, maybe in 400 years Catalunha will have beaten the odds.
As for there not being a fight, then you're either not being honest with me, or we have very different definitions of fighting, because from the outside, it definitely looks like you have to go to extra lengths for it.
>>60062206
>Learning meme language in the middle of a country with a different one
Life must be suffering for them. It's like being born in some native village and learning some random indian language #21435, but to be able to communicate with everyone else you gotta learn proper spanish
>>60062206
here in valencia the usage is even growing up
talking about extinction in the short term is ridiculous
spain has stopped the ban of regional languages and now people has freedom to talk it or not
it can go up or down, but it won't dissapear.
>>60062482
I'm out of here, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
>>60062482
People in bilingual regions, in this case, Cataluña, are BROUGHT UP in both Spanish and Catalán. There's no such thing as "habing to learn another language".
Yes,. there have been cases of parents isolating their children to NOT speak Spanish, but that is very uncommon.
>>60062475
>because from the outside, it definitely looks like you have to go to extra lengths for it.
That's just the propaganda that separatism wants you to believe, just like unionist want you to believe that children in Cataluña don't speak Spanish.
>>60062445
>No, this is the % of people who claim it as "their native language"
"According to Ethnologue, Catalan had four million native speakers and five million second-language speakers in 2012."
>This is straight up false. Again, Catalán is the first language of Cataluña, and I meant to the fullest extent. TV is in Catalán, Radio is in Catalán, the congress is in Catalán -with only PP speaking in Castellano. Everything is in Catalán first, and then in Castellano in case someone doesn't speak it.
But how is this not fighting for it? Are you honestly going to tell me there are no outside pressures for the Catalans to stop this?
>I do, that's why I say that Cataluña is proof of concept that 2 languages can live together.
There is a very large secessionist movement in Catalunha, it's definitely not a model for cohesion and success
As for the rest, history proves you can certainly put up a valiant effort in resisting, but alas you eventually succumb. Perhaps Catalunha will be the first exception and then I might reconsider my base axiom, but there is still a lot to see.
>>60062595
>it can go up or down, but it won't dissapear.
But that's the whole point, long-term it tends to go down, a lot. Not disappear but stuck in a limbo.
>>60062774
I have to manage the information I get from both sources.
But I definitely see a lot of inflammation and damaging accusations coming from both sides. I can't say for sure but I remember an opinion poll from a reputable that showed that most Castilians did not like Catalans and vice-versa.
>>60063092
because people who was born in the dictatorship will be the majority in few years
but then it will start to rise again. 100% of kids can speak it, if they will and increase real usage depends on a lot of things.
>>60062865
>"According to Ethnologue, Catalan had four million native speakers and five million second-language speakers in 2012."
This number doesn't take into account the poepl that I told you consider them both their native language. They're either put into "native" or "second language" but not into "equally native".
>But how is this not fighting for it?
Because it's the primary language for everything, there's no "fighting" when your live is first and foremost in Catalán.
>Are you honestly going to tell me there are no outside pressures for the Catalans to stop this?
Precisely. I have NEVER seen other regions telling Cataluña to stop this. I don't know what even makes you believe this kind of neo-franquista behaviour is the norm or even accepted in Spain.
>There is a very large secessionist movement in Catalunha
Definitely, but this has nothing to do with Catalán being prosecuted, but with the country's economical situation.
>it's definitely not a model for cohesion and success
Bilinguality is by its very nature not very cohesive, this isn't a bad nor a good thing.
>success
This has nothing to do with language, and, again, it has to do with the country's economical situation, not with the health of the Catalán language and identity.>>60062865
>As for the rest, history proves you can certainly put up a valiant effort in resisting, but alas you eventually succumb
In Spain, the other cases I can remember of language "losing" and ultimately becoming so small they're basically dead are Leonés and Gallego. The case with León is simple, the very population is almost gone, there nobody tot keep the language alive. Galicia was straight up colonized, the revolted and they were punished for it.
I agree the case of Galicia is sad, because there really doesn't seem to be much of a desire to recover the Galician identity.
>>60063244
This just brings me back to my point that political, economic and social cycles are very important, and what one must concern himself with is the long term.
Again, we will see what happens in the long term and perhaps Catalunha will beat the odds.
>>60063409
I don't really understand the catalonian situation
They have a huge political promotion of the language, while we valencians had basically a continuation of dictatorship in soft mode
And yet both autonomies have the same amount of native speakers.
Usage in public spaces is lower here, because the political powers didn't try to normalize it.
This has recently changed. Last election gave the power to valencianists.
Suming up: Political cycles can change the usage in some areas, but won't change the native speakers. It depends on parents. In my city parents who speak valencian to children is rising, but total speakers will be a lot lower in a few years because of what I said before.
It will change maybe like this:
45 - 40 - 35 - 27 (lowest point) - 29 - 30 - 35 .......
(note: we have historical castilian areas inside our territory so the percentage is lower than catalonia).
>>60063092
>opinion poll from a reputable that showed that most Castilians did not like Catalans and vice-versa.
Define "not like".
There's bound to be rivalry between regions that excel in all aspects of life in a country.
Define "castillians".
Do they mean La Mancha or Castilla-León/Cantabria/Rioja/Madrid? As much as I would like it to be different, Southerners -everything south of Madrid- are currently riding the coat tails of Northern Castilla and feel very patriotic about it, but in the wrong way.
as someone from Madrid, I've only seen old people -50 and up- truly "dislike" or "hate" Cataluña. Hell, we've even had demonstration in favour of Cataluña's right to vote here in Madrid.
You need to remember that the people who were brought up in the mindset of the dictatorhip are STILL alive, of course they are going to think like that.
My father is full-blown "españolazo" -who doesn't even know the meaning of the coat of arms, the history or traditions of Castilla or what being "Spanish" truly even means- yet he married a half-vasque, half-catalán. And I turned out to despise his view of "Spain". This is the case for many people my age in the country.
>>60061588
John Teixeira?
>>60063406
>This number doesn't take into account the people that I told you consider them both their native language. They're either put into "native" or "second language" but not into "equally native".
I'm going to have to ask you for a source for this which exactly outlines the number of speakers.
>Because it's the primary language for everything, there's no "fighting" when your live is first and foremost in Catalán.
>Precisely. I have NEVER seen other regions telling Cataluña to stop this. I don't know what even makes you believe this kind of neo-franquista behaviour is the norm or even accepted in Spain.
This fighting occurs in the political backstage and there aren't going to be many outward manifestations of it, but I have seen enough to know it is the case. And keep in mind I'm actually neutral on the Catalan secession Question unlike most of my countrymen that support it.
>Definitely, but this has nothing to do with Catalán being prosecuted, but with the country's economical situation.
No one is naive enough to believe it is either an entirely and Economic issue and an entirely Language/National identity issue. I'm, at least for my part, you're not going to convince me of that.
>Bilinguality is by its very nature not very cohesive, this isn't a bad nor a good thing.
Coming from a person from a very cohesive country I can say we accept cohesiveness as a very important thing here.
>In Spain, the other cases I can remember of language "losing" and ultimately becoming so small they're basically dead are Leonés and Gallego.
Basques are heading the same way, they're just taking a lot longer.
I'm not going to imply that one side is evil while the other is the righteous one, it's just that our language, as spoken in Portugal, because BR-PT is almost a different language in practice, is much better off outside Spain.
Yes, perhaps we will beat the odds stacked against us, but it's something our language can do much better without.
>>60063092
Important annotation: every region hates each other in Spain
>>60063901
So it's just like any other country in the world, then?
>>60063925
The cantons hate each other?
>>60064064
Yes, they do. Very much so. Certain cantons behave like they're different countries at times.
>>60063757
I can't remember the details of the poll but it was either in Madrid or near Madrid. This is also supported by the fact that I've seen Portuguese who live in Spain complain about a certain kind of attitude you show us.
Keep in mind that they will obviously not discuss this with you, but I've seen it more than once. And I'm not saying it's norm, but only that it's "statistically" significant enough to dismiss.
And you have to remember that some generations are going to be more liberal than others.
Again, my base axiom remains unchanged, joining Spain puts an unnecessary stress on our language that it can do fine without.
>>60063704
I'm obviously not going to be the one that's going to provide an answer for those, I'm only an outsider looking in.
>>60064172
*"statistically" significant enough not to dismiss
>>60063901
Same here and Lisbon can and usually are utter assholes to my region but that doesn't mean we're not one and the same country.
>>60064122
And here I thought Switzerland was a role model for cooperation. Welp, guess the world just works like that and won't ever change.
>>60064283
We even had a war between the cantons about 150 years ago.
>>60064283
It is. It's just that the grass is always greener and the Swiss isn't aware that his country is still the best at making very different identities coexist together in the same macro-political identity.
>>60063854
>I'm going to have to ask you for a source for this which exactly outlines the number of speakers.
I don't have a source per se, I just know that this pols don't have the option "equally native". If you want to know the actual number of native speakers, just take away the andalucians and north african immigrants in Cataluña, the rest are native speakers of either both languages or of Catalán.
Every kid in Cataluña is native in both languages, no exceptions.
>This fighting occurs in the political backstage and there aren't going to be many outward manifestations of it, but I have seen enough to know it is the case.
This is outright wrong. There's nobody pushing for a Castillian-speaking Cataluña, nobody. I hope some Catalán chimes in to tell you so that you believe from first hand experience.
>Coming from a person from a very cohesive country I can say we accept cohesiveness as a very important thing here.
But this doesn't mean bilinguality is bad. You speak English -and I'm going to bet you use English more than Portuguese in the internet-, but you are Portuguese, you speak Portuguese and you are not going to let a language of convenience set that aside. But I see your point here, I just think bilinguality is always the best option.
>Basques are heading the same way, they're just taking a lot longer.
This isn't the case either. Euskera is growing. The only region in Euskadi that has forgotten the language is the south. The rest of the region -specially rural towns- speak Euskera as first -and sometimes only- language.
>I'm not going to imply that one side is evil while the other is the righteous one
Yes, I know that isn't the argument.
>is much better off outside Spain.
I actually believe that Portuguese should be taught in Spain, by which I mean that I think Portuguese would be better off inside Spain. But by better off in Spain I don't necessarily mean Portugal as much as the language itself. But I believe of all Iberian languages.
>>60064416
If you say so. I guess saying that we "hate" each other is a bit extreme anyway. There is just a lot of rivalry between e.g. Zurich and Basel or Zurich and Bern. We are also kind of divided politically, with the French-speaking part voting more left than the German-speaking part. Then there's the issue of us having four different official languages, but still being one nation.
>>60063854
>Basques are heading the same way, they're just taking a lot longer.
Basque has the protection that Lliones lacks. While in disadvantage agaisnt Spanish is not in "the edge" like Leonese and its actually gaining speakers, mostly in the Spanish Basque Country, where its most promoted.
You should not bury it before it dies.
>>60064172
>This is also supported by the fact that I've seen Portuguese who live in Spain complain about a certain kind of attitude you show us.
This utterly surprises me. We do indeed believe that you guys are no fun, but we see you as level-headed and calm that "we should learn from" -this last one I've heard it a lot-, so I have a hard time seeing Portuguese being treated wrong. And, from my anecdotal experience in Portugal, even though I'm nowhere near as outspoken as the average Spaniard, I find you guys are too serious all the time. I don't know if our very way of being -that is, noisy, outspoken and constantly joking- is just being confused with treating you guys different.
Yes, there will always be the joke that "Portugal es una provincia de Galicia que tiene que volver", but that's just a joke.
>And you have to remember that some generations are going to be more liberal than others.
Yes, that's why I pointed out my dad's generation, their mindset is going to die with them.
>Again, my base axiom remains unchanged, joining Spain puts an unnecessary stress on our language that it can do fine without.This really isn't my point. I just think that in a hypothetical new "Unión", Portuguese would be just as alive as it is today.
>>60064599
>This is outright wrong. There's nobody pushing for a Castillian-speaking Cataluña, nobody. I hope some Catalán chimes in to tell you so that you believe from first hand experience.
This is the only way I'm going to believe this, if several Catalan posters come here to confirm because no offense but I've seen people voice their opinions to the contrary of what you're implying.
>But this doesn't mean bilinguality is bad. You speak English -and I'm going to bet you use English more than Portuguese in the internet-, but you are Portuguese, you speak Portuguese and you are not going to let a language of convenience set that aside.
Well, there is essentially no document or sign that isn't tourist oriented that's in English. And English itself forms a somewhat important part of our history due to well known reasons, for the best and for the worse, and I should know since I live in the centre of Britishness in Portugal, and probably Iberia apart from Gibraltar.
>The only region in Euskadi that has forgotten the language is the south.
Compare the chances that it eventually comes back to the chances that the North eventually loses it too, and you'll see what I'm talking about when I mention the long term.
>I actually believe that Portuguese should be taught in Spain
I don't think you should bother but who am I to say those things? If anything you should just teach Galician.
>But I believe of all Iberian languages.
Oh believe me, you won't find a firmer believer than I. Which is why I recognize that whenever a larger nation interacts with a smaller nation, in the long term, things will not end well for the smaller nation in terms of keeping the culture.
>>60061515
"Pavor" exists in PT but it's more of a synonym to terror
>>60064688
I find your country amazingly interesting from a sociological POV, in several others with similar situations they would have balkanised already
>>60061515
"Pavor" is like a stronger kind of fear, in portuguese.
"Eu tenho medo de aranhas" = I'm afraid of spiders
"Eu tenho pavor de aranhas" = I'm really afraid of spiders
>>60064688
As an outsider I definitely get the feeling that you are more similar among yourselves than to your respective communities in other countries.
That rivalry exists everywhere and that political division too, even here, in pic related orange is the right-wing party and pink is the left-wing party.
>>60064867
See here >>60065098 when I said: Compare the chances that it eventually comes back [in the South region] to the chances that the North eventually loses it too, and you'll see what I'm talking about when I mention the long term.
>>60065023
I'm being honest, I can maybe provide you with a post of a Portuguese that lived in Spain and said the same thing.
>Yes, that's why I pointed out my dad's generation, their mindset is going to die with them.
And PERHAPS then I might reconsider this axiom, but only then, and only reconsider, since it's much better to be safe than sorry!
>>60065098
>Compare the chances that it eventually comes back to the chances that the North eventually loses it too,
This anon put on the numbers>>60064867 it's growing, and, with this numbers in mind, I'm pretty everyone north of Vitoria speaks Euskera. Yet again, anecdotal experience: I have a Vitoriana classmate that has told me that while the population of Southern Euskadi doesn't speak the language -I believe it was less than 5%- schools already teach it, meaning that in less than 10 years, when those kids are her age, they will speak Euskera. So no, I see the language gaining speakers, not losing them.
1/2
2/2
>Well, there is essentially no document or sign that isn't tourist oriented that's in English. And English itself forms a somewhat important part of our history due to well known reasons, for the best and for the worse, and I should know since I live in the centre of Britishness in Portugal, and probably Iberia apart from Gibraltar.
But you are still a Portuguese-speaking Portuguese.
>Which is why I recognize that whenever a larger nation interacts with a smaller nation, in the long term, things will not end well for the smaller nation in terms of keeping the culture.
Funny you say that, because it is way of "españolizar" the country, Castilla has lost her own identity.
The people of Madrid -of my age- don't even KNOW we were Castellanos not even 30 years ago. The people of Castille think that sevillanas and flamenco are the core of the castillian identity.
Hell, as a castillian myself I know more about Andalucía than Castilla.
Again, if there's anybody losing it's own identity, that is Castilla.
There is a saying from someone I don't remember: "If he calls himself Spanish and knows everything about Andalucía, Cataluña, Euskadi, León and Galicia but doesn't know anything about Castilla, he is probably Castillian".
I'll put my father again as example: he knows nothing about Castillian folklore, yet he strongly believes himself a Spaniard -and loves flamenco.
Hell, he didn't even believe me and got mad when I told him that Castilla was a country well before Spain. That should tell you a lot of which region is losing itself.
>>60065490
>See here >>60065098 when I said: Compare the chances that it eventually comes back [in the South region] to the chances that the North eventually loses it too, and you'll see what I'm talking about when I mention the long term.
There are way more chances for the Basque to keep growing in Álava than from dissapearing from Biscay and Gipuzkoa.
>>60065938
You're speaking about growing and disappearing, those things are different in magnitude, I spoke about the chances of Basque disappearing from the North versus the chances that it fully comes back in the South.
>>60065852
>>60065910
>But you are still a Portuguese-speaking Portuguese.
Obviously, but English is not without it's significance to our history, for better and for worse, and while I'm not saying we should make it official or anything we also should just dismiss it and throw it in trash can.
And since this is getting tiring and I have to go, I'm not disputing Spain has currently entered a cycle which might be beneficial for it's nations within the nation.
All I'm arguing is that I'm pretty sure that in the long term, which is the only thing that I'm worried about, that situation (which includes both historic and modern) serves as a pretty compelling argument that Portuguese will not well inside Spain, and even it if does, it's not going to be without taking a toll on us. I consider my region to be the last bastion of Galician and wish it to remain so.
Perhaps if your generation is truly enlightened about this, then one day, in the distant future, we might consider it, but that's a decision we are going to have to make and we alone.
>>60065464
same meaning in spanish
>>60066578
*we also shouldn't just dismiss it
And, since this my last post itt, I'm getting the feeling for some reason you're invested into this topic and would like to see some approximation (this is to say something that might eventually culminate in a union) between both our countries.
I am not immediately repelled by the idea like most people here, but I do not wish it, if that's what you're wondering. You can be pretty cool but the moment we visit the comment sections on El País or Youtube it makes us take a step back or two. I'm not implying that's the norm, but it's certainly not residual or insignificant either.
>>60066578
>Portuguese will not well inside Spain
Yet again, this is not my argument. My argument is the strong Portuguese identity, which you are comparing with territories that were colonized and, frankly, genocided.
Putting colonialism in the same page of threat to an identity as a political union is extreme.
>>60066578
Thats cause you are pretending that the Basque is dead has to be reintroduced.
Parts of Álava lost the tongue, but other kept it, and once a Basque Government was formed and a Basque Educational Law was made, the language began to be promoted. That was decades ago, thats why I said "keep growing" cause it came back long time ago, it need to grow, not to be introduced.
And as I said before, I see way more chances of the Basque becoming more and more important in the "South" than from dissapearing from the "North".
eu som hijo de puttana
>>60066902
>And, since this my last post itt, I'm getting the feeling for some reason you're invested into this topic and would like to see some approximation (this is to say something that might eventually culminate in a union) between both our countries.
I do.
But I don't see "2 countries". I see a peninsula with a long history of kingdoms, cultures are identities that should be together. With that in mind, that has not been what I've been trying to tell you. I just fundamentally disagree with your view that union would threaten Portuguese identity, culture and history.
>>60067082
>should be together
why?
Iberia was never fully together
>>60070212
Because when I see a Portuguese I see someone from my own race, who speaks a language that's my tongue sister and has a shared history with me.
>>60070599
You see another vassal fit to suck castilian cock you filthy spic
>>60074191
>You see another vassal fit to suck castilian cock you filthy spic
Nice story your making up in your head.
>>60074337
Never again shall a spic ruler issue an order to Portugal, get over it.
We've won our right to exist after surviving 800 years next to you.
>>60065399
What about Belgium?
>>60059444
I'm italian, and castellano and italian are basically the same language. It's something like Dutch and german, or norwegian and swedish
>>60074643
>get over it.
A hypothetical union doesn't mean that the government HAS to be Castellano. Also, you are spics yourselves. we are the same race, don't forget that.
>We've won our right to exist after surviving 800 years next to you.
Yes, you have, that's why I said I'd like it to be that way, not that is MUST be that way.
>>60075399
>castellano and italian are basically the same language
I can barely understand Italian, though.
>>60075762
>We're all the human race guyz all out of africaaa!!!
European nations have ethnicities, not races. Our ethnicity isn't Spanish, and will never be, it's fundamentally different, so piss off spic.
It's obvious that you want another vassal state to be commanded from Madrid, and to this I'll tell you what the majority of us will: Antes morto que Espanhol, get over it, don't even think about it.
Portuguese as spoken by white people from Parana, Santa Catarina, Rio Grande do Sul is easy for me to understand. I can have complete conversations with them here in Miami with no problems. The stereotype Rio Porty and Mulato type Brazilians sound like chimps in a zoo grunting for a banana. Euro Portuguese might as well be Chinese, but they are not too common here.
Reading/writing is basically the same in Span/Port.
>>60076089
>European nations have ethnicities, not races
Spain and Portugal are both ibero-mediterraneans, no matter how much you say otherwise.
>so piss off spic.
Again, you are a spic too.
>It's obvious that you want another vassal state to be commanded from Madrid
"The Madrid boogeyman", you are sounding like populist separatist media. I don't know what makes you think I want this.
>I'll tell you what the majority of us will: Antes morto que Espanhol, get over it, don't even think about it.
I'll keep thinking about, thought, no matter how much it angers you.
>>60076311
>Spain and Portugal are both ibero-mediterraneans,
What the shit, so because some alien filthy spic says I'm something, I'm something?
Does not follow, spic is for spanish speakers only, it doesn't say anything about your race, you speak spanish and you're a spic, even if you're black, white, mestiço, european, asian or whatever.
>The Madrid boogeyman
>Madrid ISN'T the boogeyman
Nice one fellow spicaroo, we'll keep our national holiday that celebrates our independence from Madrid precisely because it isn't the boogeyman, sure
>I'll keep thinking about, thought,
It's pointless, try to come here and shout that portugal should be spain and Madrid should rule and you'll get your teeth kicked in spic
Man do I love Portuguese tears.
>Bwwaaaaaahh bwaaaahh
>>60076645
>What the shit, so because some alien filthy spic says I'm something, I'm something?
No, you are something because you statistically are, my ibero-mediterranean friend.
>Nice one fellow spicaroo, we'll keep our national holiday that celebrates our independence from Madrid precisely because it isn't the boogeyman, sure
You are comparing 1600s Madrid under Felipe II to current day Madrid, you realize that, don't you?
>try to come here and shout that portugal should be spain
The fact that I want Iberia to be together doesn't mean that I want it to be "Spain"; understanding "Spain" as the broken think we currently have.
>and Madrid should rule
Again with the Madrid boogeyman. When did I say Madrid should have all moving power?
>>60076944
>No, you are something because you statistically are, my ibero-mediterranean friend.
That's the same "we're all from Africa so we're all Africans" my alien spic friend.
The truth is you have your ethnicity, call it whatever you want, and I have mine. You cannot claim anything about my ethnicity as I cannot claim anything about yours.
>You are comparing 1600s Madrid under Felipe II to current day Madrid, you realize that, don't you?
>Meanwhile it's 2016 and still claims Gibraltar but doesn't give us back Olivença
Btw as of 2014 Madrid was STILL disputing territory which is ours under international law: http://www.dn.pt/politica/interior/espanha-disputa-com-portugal-zona-maritima-com-reserva-de-gas-4317340.html
http://economico.sapo.pt/noticias/espanha-disputa-com-portugal-mar-junto-as-ilhas-selvagens_208998.html
Once a treacherous Castilian, as always a treacherous Castilian. Btw I bet you're one of those guys that always goes on about how we call you "nuestros hermanos" without realizing it's part of a joke where we answer "Porque podemos escolher os amigos mas estamos presos a estes Castelhanos"
>>60076944
>>60076712
>>60076311
>>60075817
>>60075762
Here's the thing,we'll never unite,and if we do agaisn't the people's will,we will do something worse than the madrid bombings.Fuck off with the union dream.Portugal is older than the shit you call ''spain'',a fucking union of petty kingdoms, with most of them wanting to get the fuck out.
Fuck off you piece of shit
>>60077325
>with most of them wanting to get the fuck out
Madrid killed them.
There is nothing wanting to get out apart from catalunha because there is nothing left. These spics are insane if they think we're going the same way without a fight.
>>60077325
I don't give a fuck about you mate, why would I want to unite with a poorer country? It would be worse for us. I just enjoy laughing at poortugueses being butthurt about "le madrid invasion" meme.
>>60060771
this guy is speaking in a weird way
Why the portuguese here get so butthurt with everything?
>>60077534
Then shut the fuck up
>we don't want you believe me
shut the fuck up for fuck sake,i don't give a shit about your allah akabar language,húan,húlio,hérnadez,fucking arab piece of shit talk like a man not like a fucking arab...
>>60077534
Your whole fucking shithole of a country has lived obsessed with conquering us, stop saving face you stupid spic, there were actual plans for invading us up until very recently http://expresso.sapo.pt/actualidade/o-plano-de-franco-para-invadir-portugal=f446991
>>60077301
>That's the same "we're all from Africa so we're all Africans" my alien spic friend.
No, you are just delusional. We both come from the Christian kingdoms of the north of the peninsula. Unless you are trying to say that Portuguese are Ayyyliens.
>Btw as of 2014 Madrid was STILL disputing territory which is ours under international law
You are literally showing me an image of how greedy the Portuguese government is that your proposed expansion is considerably larger than ours. How can you fucking complain when you are planing on getting water a lot further than you should?
>Once a treacherous Castilian, as always a treacherous Castilian
Actually, the only one of us who was treacherous was Portugal.
> Btw I bet you're one of those guys that always goes on about how we call you "nuestros hermanos"
Didn't even know you guys even said that.
It's hilarious the kind you stuff you are spouting. Not only are you terrified of the Madrid boogeyman, but you are putting on a full on straw man narrative.
>>60077666
Satan trips confirm, madrid is the devil
>>60077661
>i don't give a shit about you
>keep getting triggered by coments on the internet
These portuguese mate I swear to god, where do they come from? I doubt everyone in your country is that autistic.
>>60077666
>your fucking shithole of a country
>Portugal is LITERALLY poorer than eastern european countries
You can't just make this up famalam.
>>60077325
>Fuck off you piece of shit
How mad can you be?
>Here's the thing,we'll never unite,and if we do agaisn't the people's will,we will do something worse than the madrid bombings.
What makes you think I'm talking about a union WITHOUT the people's vote? Stop pulling out straw men, Portumad.
>>60077430
>Madrid killed them.
You literally know nothing about Spain. Hell, we've been through how regional identities are alive and strong in this very thread not long ago. But I guess you didn't even bother reading.
>>60077666
>1940
I think you don't understand that was Franco.
>>60077977
>>60077893
senpaiília vão para a puta que vos pariu árabes de merda,metam-se no caralho filhos da puta convencidos de merda
>>60077562
they think they are white like brazilians
and poortugal is shittier than their colony bra zila aids il
>>60077852
>No, you are just delusional.
>Because if I say so it makes it so!!
>We both come from the Christian kingdoms of the north of the peninsula.
How dense can you be? Your argument is utter trash because it can be used to justify we come from any ethnicity.
Get over it, we are Portuguese. Only Portuguese. It doesn't matter what spics think we SHOULD be.
>How can you fucking complain when you are planning on getting water a lot further than you should?
It's our territory you stupid filthy spic, it's OUR territory as recognized by international law, the Ilhas Selvagens are OURS and in the year of 2014, supposedly way after Madrid stop being the aggressive cunts who like coming across the border to get killed, you're still at it, you're still disputing territory with us, you're still claiming Gibraltar while not returning Olivença and pretending you've changed.
>Actually, the only one of us who was treacherous was Portugal.
Says the destroyer and enslaver of nations
And above all
>Not only are you terrified of the Madrid boogeyman
That's where you're wrong, we don't fear madrid, we don't fear a spic invasion, many here would welcome it, it would finally be a chance to pull out the machine guns across the border.
To fear madrid would mean you would have the slightest chance of annexing a country of 10 million where 50% of the people would fight to the death in case of a spanish invasion.
We just detest treacherous cunts like you who pretend you've changed, who try and claim our ethnicity as something you arbitrarily designated it to be, it just so happens that you're almost always from madrid.
>>60078149
>so triggered he forgot how to speak english
>>60078292
Spic de merda és tratado como um verme pelos americanos, lixo humano.
>>60077893
>>60077977
>His country live obsessed with conquering us
>Try to save face and claim it didn't
I swear to god these filthy treacherous spics never change
>>60078309
>Lowest English proficiency country talking about the ability of others to speak English
What happened to this thread?
>>60078599
your mom derailed the thread with her moist buttcheeks
>>60078599
czecked'd
>>60062206
Why is there nothing in Spanish?
>>60058870
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=900&v=aBGq11ODudA
Well, in this video I understand pretty much everything he says, but the guy that posted this video here on /int/ before said this man has a perfect italian pronunciation, so might not happen with everyone. Maybe the italian classes I took on Duolingo helped a little too.
>>60078299
>Get over it, we are Portuguese. Only Portuguese. It doesn't matter what spics think we SHOULD be.
No, I'm sorry to break your heart, but we both come FROM THE SAME KINGDOM. That is, Asturias. I don't know what kind of story you made up in your mind, but that is where we BOTH come from.
>supposedly way after Madrid stop being the aggressive cunts
Are you actually comparing proposing an expansion with being aggressive? You do realize the army was not even involved, right?
>Says the destroyer and enslaver of nations
Is a Portuguese calling a Spaniard "enslaver of nations"? Is this some kind of joke behind several layers of irony?
> it would finally be a chance to pull out the machine guns across the border.
You aren't the same beast as you were, Portugal, just like Spain isn't the same as it used to be. Just remember the "Guerra de las naranjas". Stop talking like the big boys. Both Spain and Portugal aren't in shape for war, no matter how much you delude yourself.
>We just detest treacherous cunts
Again, the ones that declared war on their countrymen where the Portuguese on 1640.
>who try and claim our ethnicity as something you arbitrarily designated it to be
No, I don't arbitrarily give you an ethnicity, I look at history and see Portugal come from the same people I come from, going through the same reconquista process and ending up in modern times. Literally the same people.
> it just so happens that you're almost always from madrid.
The Madrid boogeyman YET AGAIN. It surprises me how much Madrid is mentioned in Iberian discussion by every other person that is NOT Madrilean.
>>60076645
Nice comic,is there an english version?
>>60078299
>>60079019
>this much iberian buttmad
kek,you're as bitter as arabs and you call yourselves european
>>60076089
It will be better to be commanded from Madrid, of course. Many Portuguese have told me their desire to finally unite and make Madrid the best city in Europe.
>>60079186
>and you call yourselves european
Where exactly did I claim that? Please point out the post I said that.
>>60078299
Abosolutely no one in Portugal except for mentally unstable people would fight to the death in case of an invasion, let alone a Spanish one.
>>60079019
>No, I'm sorry to break your heart, but we both come FROM THE SAME KINGDOM. That is, Asturias.
And we all come from the Roman Empire, and we all come from Africa and we all come from Proto-Indo-European tribes so we're Indian too!!
This is how mind-bogglingly retarded you sound, we are not Spanish, we are not the same ethnicity as you. Only a treacherous spic cunt would try to claim sovereignty of an ethnicity when that person is clearly telling him he does NOT belong.
>Are you actually comparing proposing an expansion with being aggressive?
>Proposing an Expansion is NOT being Aggressive
>The army has to be involved for there to be an aggression
This shit just keeps getting better and better
>Is this some kind of joke behind several layers of irony?
>Castile didn't utterly enslave and colonize the nations of it's homeland
>Stop talking like the big boys
>Implying we want to annex Spain
>Implying Spain has even the most remote chance of annexing us and that we are scared of that possibility
> I look at history and see Portugal come from the same people I come from
You do NOT get to class me as something arbitrary when I openly say I am not.
>The Madrid boogeyman YET AGAIN
It IS the source of all evil in this peninsula.
Shit I wish we could fuck off and just be an Island instead.
>>60079093
Not that I'm aware of, unfortunately.
>>60079515
>Implying we aren't taught to defend the country in case of a Spanish invasion since we start school
>>60079271
>Implying a filthy spic shall ever issue orders to Portugal again
>>60079186
>Implying you're not a brown manlet Asian/Paki/Spic immigrant
>>60078149
And here comes the funniest part of it: MANY Portuguese people told me they prefer Spain millions of times over Portugal.
>>60079719
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iB4zDtVZojM
Why do people always use football related videos when we talk about language ?
>>60078149
hhahahahahaha, vai vender toallas a feira
>>60079612
>we aren't taught to defend the country in case of a Spanish invasion since we start school
Which you totally are not because that is absolutely rediculeous, despicable and crazy to even THINK at.
>>60080029
Our entire set of history classes in primary school talks about the wars with Castile and how it was the duty of everyone to defend the country.
I agree it's kind of overboard on propaganda but at least most of my friends that say they wouldn't defend the country open exceptions for the case where it's the spanish attacking
>>60078599
> nigger genes from Lisboners arose.
Full blown chimpout agains Mafrid/SPain.
Nothing new
>>60079810
B-bu-buh y-yo-you are l-l-ying, r-r-r-r-ight?
How does it feel to know that many of your country men are perfectly okay with the idea of a united peninsula and that everyone in your country except for deranged people full of venom as yourself absolutely ADORES Spain?
inb4 you filthy spic/moor I am not even Spanish, I am a German turist in Madrid and I love it.
>>60079533
>And we all come from the Roman Empire, and we all come from Africa and we all come from Proto-Indo-European tribes so we're Indian too!!
This logic doesn't work, Portugbro, and you know it. We come from Asturias, that's the point where we went separate ways. What happened then? We reconquered the peninsula. Care to explain at what point Portugal became a different race?
>Only a treacherous spic cunt would try to claim sovereignty of an ethnicity
"Hello, my name is Alberto Barbesa and I LOVE making straw men"; care to tell where I claimed "sovereignty" over the "Spanish" race. News flash, the "Spanish race" is not called that because of the country called Spain that form in 1492, but because of the people that lived in Hispania before it; that is THE SPANISH PEOPLE.
>when that person is clearly telling him he does NOT belong.
No matter how many times a native american tell me he isn't native american will change the fact that he is native american.
>This shit just keeps getting better and better
Literally a proposal is aggressive behaviour. It's, quite literally, a PROPOSAL.
>Castile didn't utterly enslave and colonize the nations of it's homeland
Portugal didn't utterly enslave and colonize the people of the américas, africa and india.
>You do NOT get to class me as something arbitrary when I openly say I am not.
Literally tumblerina tier bullshit. "No, even though I am from Portuguese decent, which comes from Asturias just like Castilla, I REPEAT that I am a pony-sexual otherkin". Fucking Godamnit the shit I'm reading here.
>It IS the source of all evil in this peninsula.
You are outdoing the separatist propaganda here, Barbosa.
1/2
2/2
>>60079612
>Shit I wish we could fuck off and just be an Island instead.
Because I dare claim that I want Portugal and Spain to be united? Don't worry, next time I'll "trigger warnings" so your feeling aren't hurt.
>>60079612
>>Implying we aren't taught to defend the country in case of a Spanish invasion since we start school
I truly hope this is hyperbole, because this is some next level nutty stuff.
>>60080265
>How does it feel to know that many of your country men are perfectly okay with the idea of a united peninsula
>I am a German turist
> in Madrid
>Making shit up and playing the German card because being a Spic offers him 0 credibility
>A German TURIST in MADRID is an expert on Portugal
Shiiiiiet that's some Spicky dellusion you got there.
>>60080237
t. castelhano
>>60080276
> and you know it
> because I arbitrarily say it doesn't work
> Galician-Portuguese hasn't been attested since the 5th century
>We reconquered the peninsula.
We were never the same country you deluded moron
Also, you're the densest cunt I've ever seen. I'm not talking about RACE. I'm talking about ethnicity. Our ethnicity, our nation, is completely distinct from everything in Spain you stupid spic
>No matter how many times a native american tell me he isn't native american will change the fact that he is native american.
You're just mind-bogglingly, amazingly dense. THIS IS NOT ABOUT RACE.
We are a different ethnicity. Only you stupid spics claim we are the same ethnicity when someone tells you 30 times he doesn't belong. How slow and dense can you be?
>>60080324
I'm done talking to you, you're the densest dumbest fucking spic I've ever met. We aren't you, we don't want you, we mostly don't like you. Fuck off.
>>60074191
>>60074337
>>60074643
>>60075762
>>60076089
>>60076311
>>60076645
>>60076944
>>60077301
>>60077325
>>60077430
>>60077534
>>60077661
>>60077666
>>60077852
>>60077893
>>60077977
>>60078134
>>60078149
>>60078299
>>60078401
>>60078469
>>60079019
>>60079271
>>60079533
>>60079612
>>60080022
>>60080029
>>60080265
>>60080324
>>60080376
F A G G O T S
A
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G
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>>60079719
>>60079719
I'm one of them, it's common in the northern part of the country.
But in the south, and specially around Lisbon, they prefer any "lusophone" person to a spaniard. They literally see angolans and other niggers as their brothers and spaniards as foreigners/enemies.
They want to make lisbon capital of portugal and former colonies, and fear being a vassal of madrid.
>>60080376
>Calling everyone spic and he doesn't even know he is a spic too.Check out a dictionary (or urban dictionary)
>>60080682
Northerners are the most nationalistic people as a whole. You're still the exception.
>>60080734
>Check out urban dictionary where my spic brothers hastingly introduced portuguese there so we wouldn't be left alone
t. Filthy spic
>>60080376
>Making shit up and playing the German card
No matter what you say the truth stands and it is not going to change. I am indeed from Germany and I am no expert in Portugal but most of the Portuguese I have spoken to -quite a lot- agree in what I previously stated. Also, you are confusing Mexicans with Spaniards.
>>60080682
I still prefer northern portugal to spain, but I share more with a galician than with a luso-tropicalist lisbon moor nigger lover.
I always root for spain first in euros and world cups too, because they are a team I can identify with, portugal is always 30% black at least
>>60080842
t.butthurt portuguese who has just discovered he is insulting himself
>>60056493
Very similar, I realized that while shitting and reading the bathroom products. They come in spanish and portuguese.
>>60080626
>We were never the same country you deluded moron
We, as in: the kingdoms of Iberia. You perfectly know that's waht I meant.>>60080626
>I'm talking about ethnicity. Our ethnicity, our nation, is completely distinct from everything in Spain you stupid spic
Spain itself is a very diverse country. Euskadi, Cataluña, Andalucía, Galicia, and Castilla are different ethnicities, but the same race, and Portugal should be there too.
>Also, you're the densest cunt I've ever seen.
No, YOU are the densest. I've had this same exact conversation earlier in the thread, but you didn't bother reading it. Too many words for you mind, perhaps?
>We are a different ethnicity. Only you stupid spics claim we are the same ethnicity when someone tells you 30 times he doesn't belong. How slow and dense can you be?
Refer to the previous lines and THE WHOLE THREAD.
>I'm done talking to you, you're the densest dumbest fucking spic I've ever met.
Again: refer to the previous lines and the VERY THREAD YOU ARE POSTING IN.
> We aren't you
Yes, we are the same, you just happen to have a different culture and different language, but we come from the same place and our culture and language are VERY similar.
>we don't want you
This isn't an argumentation for anything. This is not a "you MUST unite", this is a matter of ME wanting Iberia together. You being buttsavaged about my wishes is irrelevant.
>we mostly don't like you
Refer to previous lines.
>Fuck off.
You are the one who just cowardly said "I'm done talking to you", you are the one who fucked off.
>>60080870
>No matter what you say the truth stands and it is not going to change.
>Being this desperate
>The Portuguese who visit Madrid (therefore a biased and tiny sample of the population) interact with me and tell me Spain is a better country
>They still don't move to the better country en masse like they do to other countries
>>60080903
Your region is factually the most nationalistic region of the country.
>>60079612
>implying you're not a brown manlet Asian/Paki/Spic immigrant
just because youre a mix of all above doesnt mean everyone is
>>60081045
Fuck off spic, Portugal will never be Spanish, the Portuguese will never be Spaniards and never will a Madrilean spic issue orders to us again.
>>60080985
t. Butthurt spic
>>60081089
80% of people posting with your flag are either asian/paki/latrinos, it's a valid assumption, Mohammed Ling
Now make like your eating utensils and chop off
>>60081054
nationalistic towards northern portugal, not towards the south.
If a vote were to happen: with three option:
1) do you want a n independent north?
2) do you want a nort+galicia union?
3) do you want everything to stay the same?
The only certainty I have is that number 3 would be the least voted
>>60081160
>Fuck off spic
>"I'm done talking to you"
>Portugal will never be Spanish
This is irrelevant yet again. My point: Portugal SHOULD be together with the rest of Iberia, never did I say it "will" or "must". I repeat for the 100th time, stop pulling straw men.
> will never be Spaniards
You are racially just as Spanish as I am. I just happen to be Madrilean, and you Lisboan.
>and never will a Madrilean spic issue orders to us again.
Another irrelevant statement. Refer to the previous line.
Didn't you say you would fuck off now?
>>60081160
>t.butthurt spic
The only butthurt in this thread is you mate.I haven't insult you at any moment but you still are mad at spanish people
>>60057030
sorry portubrah but you guys need to stop mumbling
>>60081405
I will repeat this as many times as I need to get it in your head: Portugal will never be Spanish, the Portuguese will never be Spaniards and never will a Madrilean spic issue orders to us again.
>>60081373
The northern independence party didn't get enough votes to even get considered and when it got shutdown no one protested.
You're always the same 500 people from Porto and not even worthy of getting on the radar.
>>60081519
The only thing I'm saying is that you're a butthurt spic from a country that spent 800 years trying to conquer us but failed.
>>60081054
>>60081160
You are just one person that thinks this way, maybe two. Meanwhile the adoration and loyalty towards Spain coming from Portugal is astounding, always proud to speak Spanish and bear its flag.
>>60081230
>80% of people posting with your flag are either asian/paki/latrinos
nah, in fact more than 80% of us are non-arab white, can you say the same?
>>60081747
>I will repeat this as many times as I need to get it in your head: Portugal will never be Spanish, the Portuguese will never be Spaniards and never will a Madrilean spic issue orders to us again.
I'm starting to think you are some troll trying to get me to lose my composure and insult you. There's no way you are still at this point of the discussion when you can clearly see this is not argument, nor what I'm defending.
Also:
>Madrid bogeyman
How many times can you pull it? You're on a record as of now.
>>60081765
You are just one person that thinks this way, maybe two. Meanwhile the adoration and loyalty towards Portugal coming from Spain is astounding, always proud to speak Portuguese and bear its flag.
>>60081956
>nah, in fact more than 80% of us are non-arab white
Not buying it Xing
>>60082007
I have nothing else to say to someone who calls me a Spaniard. The only thing is that I wish you called me a Spaniard to my face, but in the mean time, my point still stands; Portugal will never be Spanish, the Portuguese will never be Spaniards and never will a Madrilean spic issue orders to us again.
>>60081747
>The only thing I'm saying is that you're a butthurt spic from a country that spent 800 years trying to conquer us but failed.
We invaded your country succesfuly twice so I don't know what are you talking about
>>60082109
we've been over this achmed
>>60082109
>You are just one person that thinks this way, maybe two. Meanwhile the adoration and loyalty towards Portugal coming from Spain is astounding, always proud to speak Portuguese and bear its flag.
I have nothing else to say to someone who calls me a Portugese. The only thing is that I wish you called me a Portuguese to my face, but in the mean time, my point still stands; Spain will never be Portuguese, the Spaniards will never be Portuguese and never will a Lisboan spic issue orders to us again.
>>60082109
Portugese calling a Spaniard "spic". Eh, what did I miss? Portus are like spaniards clones
>>60082247
I'm sorry, if you prefer achmed that's fine too.
>>60082140
We're an independent sovereign nation which means you failed.
>>60082109
>I have nothing else to say to someone who calls me a Spaniard
I've been calling you Ibero-mediterranean most of the time, which is just another way of saying Spanish.
>The only thing is that I wish you called me a Spaniard to my face, but in the mean time
Now you are the internet tough guy? Wow, you are scrapping at this point.
>Portugal will never be Spanish, the Portuguese will never be Spaniards and never will a Madrilean spic issue orders to us again.
"Hello, my name is Alberto Barbosa and I am utterly offended and afraid of people wanting an unified Portugal, Castilla, Andalucía, Galicia, Cataluña and Aragón; the mere fact that a filthy spic Madrilean desires such a union of peoples is revolting to my estomach and I will go out of my way to shitpost on every thread with decent discussion about how such a union will NEVER happen, even though that is not the argument of the people in the thread".
I hope your countrymen don't have to witness your stupidity right now.
>>60082378
Finally something we can agree on.
>>60082397
Spic is a speaker of spanish. You're also clones of Spics on your borders areas in the Pirineus.
>>60082503
Portugal will never be Spanish, the Portuguese will never be Spaniards and never will a Madrilean spic issue orders to us again.
This pains you dearly obviously, but get over it.
>>60082574
>Portugal will never be Spanish, the Portuguese will never be Spaniards and never will a Madrilean spic issue orders to us again.
>This pains you dearly obviously, but get over it.
You aren't even trying right now. Come on, man!
>>60081747
We had to fuck some of your goats because the women were too ugly
>>60082724
>Still replying and has been in this thread since the begining apparently
>It doesn't pain him dearly that we will never be vassals to his shit country and madrid
You're even more personally into this than I am.
Whenever I hear a spanish (from spain) speaker I want to punch him
sorry but mexican spanish is best spanish
>>60082574
>Finally something we can agree on.
Being this low level of a troll is sad.
>>60078882
There is, it's not allways, and it also depends of the location, in barcelona there are more things in spanish than in girona per example
>>60082767
That's funny because your over-tanned women with beak noses and bodyhair are the opposite of attractive females, but
>Spic
>Fucking some goats
Never change
>>60082504
>spic is a speaker of spanish. You're also clones of Spics on your borders areas in the Pirineus.
You forgot to mention that spic is also from portuguese speakers
Keeeek a portuguese calling a french he is a spic too but still denie portuguese arent spic
You, that's right,You! You speak a beautiful language!
>>60082836
Troll is saying someone is from the same arbitrarily constructed ethnicity as he is when that someone has said 30 times he isn't.
