Why does Germany want to reinforce its dependence on Russian oil and undermine position of its eastern European allies in EU and NATO as transit countries?
>>60044535
Autism
phasing out nuclear power and russian oil is cheaper
>>60044535
that's an easy one,
the same reason they always had for everything they did.
Ruin/kill/destroy Europe... again.
This is not a problem, just like in WW2, when they had at each other over who gets to keep polish territory
the pipeline will be the cause of conflict between these two jackals
>>60044590
this
>>60044535
The Nord Stream-Pipeline was only made to angry the Poles.
>>60045436
I dont feel angry
having politically and economically less to do with russia is exactly what we want
let the other yurotrash faggot get stabbed in the back for doing business with them.
Germany just wants to improve the reliability of their gas supply, as long as a country follows the gas contract they signed, i.e pays the bills, and the gas doesn't flow through Hoholistan then Russian gas is 100% reliable. Germany is capable of doing the former and increasing the capacity of the undersea pipes will fix the latter
>>60045518
youre goverment said something different at that time, they was really angry about this that it didn't go through poland
An english captain asked once a French corsair named Robert Surcouf :
>English cap. : you french are fighting for money, while we, english, are fighting for honour !
>R. Surcouf : that's it sir, each of us is fighting for what he misses.
Thought, /int/ ?
>>60045650
Ebin fail, kill me already
>>60045567
>Russian gas is 100% reliable
wtf are you takling about ?
It isn't, it will just make negotiations and diplomacy harder if they happen to disagree with the russians.
>>60045634
>youre goverment
stopped reading there
>>60045650
sounds fair i guess
>>60045681
>It isn't, it will just make negotiations and diplomacy harder if they happen to disagree with the russians.
this
being dependent on anything russian you will be extorted by them.
theyre scumbags
We are dependent on gas and cannot risk our supply because some former commie states don't pay their bills.
>>60045760
>re-introduce nuclear power
>replace all the electricity produced with oil and gas with green energy
>progressively do the same with nuclear plants
>????
>profit
>>60045760
If you're concerned about stability of your supply, you should not make yourself vitally 100% dependent on one supplier though.
I realize this is not really a strategical decision on national level as it is decision of more or less corrupt and opportunistic businessmen at corporate level, but even so, one would have thought that German people are rational enough to diversify their sources.
>>60046293
Situation befire nord Stream:
Germany depends on Russia, poland and ukraine + a few other small states for their gas supply
After nord stream:
Germany depends on russia on their gas supply
>>60046203
Congrats, you are now dependent on some african shitholes for your nuclear material
>>60046415
That sounds like very expensive way to get a small improvement - you've fucked over a few small countries, some of them your vassals, and are still easily cuckable by Russia.
Instead you could have invested into LNG terminal, Nabucco or get over your WW2 trauma and secure sources in Africa.
Maybe it really is time for EU to fall apart if it's so impotent to pursue even goals as elementary as strategic resource security.
>>60046600
LNG terminals and shipping gas is way too expensive.
>>60046203
We heat our houses with gas. Nuclear does not change that and electrical heating is inefficient as fuck.
>>60044535
There are strategic and economic aspects. First, such a big project does not only bind the consumer but also the supplier. For decades. The new Nord Stream II pipeline connects Siberian gas fields with Europe that would otherwise only be eligible for Asian customers. And we don't need a China with more access to cheap energy.
Second, the route chosen is that way because Poland refused to be a part of the consortium. Btw the consortium isn't just German, it's also Russian, French and Dutch. It's not a national project but a commercial one. Even so, it was offered to Poland both to become part of the consortium as well as to change the route so that it touches Polish sovereign territory which would give Poland certain control over it. Poland declined both.
So it's not that "Germany want[s] to reinforce its dependence on Russian oil and undermine position of its eastern European allies in EU and NATO as transit countries" but rather Eastern European countries are still newbies to globalized capitalism and globalized geopolitics, so they prefer autist sperging. Also dependencies are almost never one-sided, mostly they're mutual. In the case of Russia and the EU Russia is far more dependent on the EU than vice-versa.
As for lost transit fees, well, it's not the job of a commercial consortium to provide outsiders with a free income. Poland and Slovakia could have chosen to reduce transit fees if they were really serious about it being a strategic issue and not a commercial one. They didn't. Now Western Europeans will have cheaper gas. This also shows the hypocrisy of Eastern European governments who have shown themselves in the recent years as increasingly nationalist, yet get nervous whenever someone from Western Europe does the very same thing.
Again the dependency relation is mutual, but Western Eurpe could do a lot easier without Eastern Europe than vice-versa. So just suck it, bros.
>>60046600
>That sounds like very expensive way to get a small improvement
Not that anon but Nord Stream and Nord Stream II will pay for themselves just by saving the transit fees.
>Instead you could have invested into LNG terminal
LNG is about twice as expensive as regular natural gas.
>>60044535
They are cucks.
>Poland and Hungary looking for their own interests
That's the spirit V4 bros! Good job putting these EU cucks in its place!
>Germany is looking for its own interest
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>60044535
Because they are traitors and they just cooperate with Russia, like always.
>>60045567
Yeah, that's why Russians blocked the Gasum LNG terminal in Finland before they were kicked out of that company. Gas is totally non-political for russhits.
Germany used to be good friends with the eastern European countries. Now relations are getting worse due to this, and the migration crisis, and views on the future of the eu in general.
They are becoming isolated. Not very smart
>>60046917
>and electrical heating is inefficient as fuck.
Bro
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_pump
Read it
Electrical heating is good.
But it needs to be complimented with a stronger source, in case there is no power, or if houses needs to be reheated during winter.
>>60046415
Congrats, you're now dependent on some African shithole for your gas.
>>60051352
>so they prefer autist sperging.
Not wanting to pay money to Russians to attack them is now autistic sperging?
>>60046600
>Maybe it really is time for EU to fall apart
it's time for our own union
Germany and Russia still treat us as vassal meme countries, they don't care we are part of UE, so our situation didn't really change apart from the fact we are nominally independent
>>60051918
Germans need to be invaded by Russia 2-3 more times, then they will understand what these human trash really are.
>>60051700
>They are becoming isolated. Not very smart
Lol you don't know shit. Germany is far and away the most important partner for every single of the V4 countries:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Poland
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_Czech_Republic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Slovakia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Hungary
Dogs that bark don't bite. They can shout all they want. We'll endure. We're used to being depicted as evil and immoral. The Holocaust aftermath was the best training ever. We'll just accept being seen as ugly Germans while raking in the profits. Thank you very much.
>>60051918
Chimping out over a commercial project that everybody is invited to be part of, comparing it with the Hitler-Stalin-Pact and generally criticizing the slightest following of national interest by others while being the most nationalist at the same time is indeed autist sperging.
>>60046600
What they could also have done is to invest solar power plants in Spain, Italy or Northern Africa and transfer that energy to gas. Germany has the biggest PV panel manufacturers in the world and the sun's power is free, clean and basically unlimited.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_to_gas
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=my_EjR7zgu8
For better efficiency you could feed just hydrogen to the gas network. Germany used to use town gas which was 70% hydrogen but you can also produce natural gas from power.
Just makes wonder why Germany doesn't want to go for the independent choice? Whose pedo pics does FSB have?
It'll be cheaper to buy the oil and gas from Germany (who buy them from Russia) than from Russia directly.
>>60052286
Except Russian gas is never just commercial.
>t everybody is invited to be part of
And the money would still go to Russian missiles and tanks. That offer doesn't change anything.
>>60052183
>Dogs that bark don't bite.
Dogs that bark, then the opponent yields, bites very hard. Please learn about dog care.
Thats sorta Russians entire foreign policy: Bark, then bite if they yield.
>>60052327
You don't have the slightest idea how abysmally inefficient power-to-gas is.
>>60052393
>And the money would still go to Russian missiles and tanks.
Ah yes, and with China as the consumer instead Russians would totally not buy missiles ant tanks from their income. Dude, are you twelve?
>>60052404
>You don't have the slightest idea how abysmally inefficient power-to-gas is.
>Pathway: Electricity→Gas→Electricity & heat
>62%
You could have just read the article.
>>60044535
Sneaky german shits
>>60052401
>Thats sorta Russians entire foreign policy: Bark, then bite if they yield.
It really isn't.
>>60052476
Going by how Russians do submarine espionage? Yes, it is.
>>60044535
It may surprise you but western democracies are controlled by corporate interest, not notions of solidarity.
>>60052443
Less demand, less money - econ 101, Hans. And of course Russians will always use the gas to coerce Europe.
>If you don't read RT.com, I'll shut the gas heating
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUeOkjFF0P4
Was your mom a Russian rapebaby?
>>60052468
Lol that's the most optimistic estimates with technology that's only run in a lab, actual commercially viable equipment is more around 30-40%, which makes the huge investment required for buying the equipment and running it simply uneconomical at market prices.
>>60052520
It really isn't
>all these germancucks sucking ivan's cock itt
I guess you learned it from your grandmothers in 1945?
>>60052572
>Less demand
For what? Russians are gonna sell their gas. Whether it's the Chinese or the Europeans doesn't matter to them. But whoever is the consumer has therefore certain influence because Russia needs customers. Again, dependencies aren't one-sided. They're mutual.
So the Nord Stream scenario is: more Russian tanks and missiles. The Eastern European autist sperg reality denial scenario is: more Russian tanks and missiles and more Chinese tanks and missiles.
You really are twelve!
>>60052286
>commercial project
Neger, plz
Schroeder in that time was a cancelor and Merkel was a Minister of Foreign affairs. Both of them were involved from the beginning.
Another pipe from Russia, the very unstable trading partner was a stupid idea. We put our accent to diversification and it's the only good way for us.
>>60052705
It is. But I think you confuse "neutral stance" with "yielding".
Most politics and diplomancy today is generally neutral. Yielding is rare.
But when you yield a finger to Russia, they will try to take the hand.
The same with other states. Its how geopolitics has worked for the last century for the super powers of the world.
Do mind: To dogs, a show of weakness is to yield. In diplomacy, a show of weakness is whatever, unless its a complete failure.
Yielding in diplomancy is not shooting back. Show of weakness is stating if you care or not. The former is dangerous, the latter is a corner stone of diplomacy.
>>60052669
>Lol that's the most optimistic estimates with technology that's only run in a lab,
It's not.
>which makes the huge investment required for buying the equipment and running it simply uneconomical at market prices.
Just PVs it will get cheaper and everything is better than anything Russian.
>>60044535
>dependence on Russian oil
Well, we need oil anyways. And asked who is more to be trusted, sandpeople or Russians the answer should be clear.
Building a pipeline through other countries is just a stupid idea if you can easily go around them, no matter how good you realtions are.
>>60052824
>Schroeder in that time was a cancelor and Merkel was a Minister of Foreign affairs.
Guess what: Every time a chancellor flies somewhere there's an entourage of managers and CEO's with her/him: shocker!
>Russia, the very unstable trading partner
Russia was never an unstable trading partner. Even during the Cold War during each and every crisis, they delivered on time. They are a reliable trading partner. What is unreliable is the gas route through Ukraine, which Nord Stream helps circumventing.
>>60052832
>But when you yield a finger to Russia, they will try to take the hand.
Not the German experience. Neither that of the US, France or the UK. What's actually true is that Russia likes to connect geopolitics of different sorts. Syria with Libya. That with Iraq. All of it with Ukraine etc. This is their way of making sure they sit at the table. But this has nothing to do with soem alleged barking and biting.
>It's a commercial project I swear!
>>60052857
>It's not.
It is.
>Just PVs it will get cheaper and everything is better than anything Russian.
You have never in your life been an entrepreneur. PVS are barely competitive now WITH feed-in tarrifs, after more than a decade of support in billions of dollars. Power-to-gas has zero economic viability. It's all very nice to ponder it as a concept and try out test faciities and further the science. But it's far away from commercial application.
>>60052814
>For what? Russians are gonna sell their gas. Whether it's the Chinese or the Europeans doesn't matter to them. But whoever is the consumer has therefore certain influence because Russia needs customers. Again, dependencies aren't one-sided. They're mutual.
Lay of the weed, dude. If the Chinese know that Euros don't want Russian genocide gas they'll have the upper hand in negotiations and won't pay that much. Of course Germans might pay in a similar situation more since they love Russian attacks.
Nothing is stopping the Russians from building another pipe to China and bidding Germans and Chinese against each other for more money on the gas in any case.
>So the Nord Stream scenario is: more Russian tanks and missiles. The Eastern European autist sperg reality denial scenario is: more Russian tanks and missiles and more Chinese tanks and missiles.
Less Russian tanks since they can't get good price from the Chinese. Chinese want energy independence too and they have heavily invested in renewables. More Chinese tanks is good for Europe since it puts more pressure on the aggressive Russians.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gansu_Wind_Farm
Nameplate capacity is more than 10 Olkiluoto 3s.
>You really are twelve!
Read a book, fucking development helper homo.
>>60052977
>Well, we need oil anyways. And asked who is more to be trusted, sandpeople or Russians the answer should be clear.
Sand people.
>>60052977
>Well, we need oil anyways. And asked who is more to be trusted, sandpeople or Russians the answer should be clear.
sand people
>implying r*ssians are even people
>>60053244
>It is.
It's not.
>You have never in your life been an entrepreneur.
Neither have you if you think you want to have your energy supply rely on the aggressive Russians.
>PVS are barely competitive now WITH feed-in tarrifs, after more than a decade of support in billions of dollars.
They are paying you to use solar power in the summers.
>Power-to-gas has zero economic viability. It's all very nice to ponder it as a concept and try out test faciities and further the science. But it's far away from commercial application.
Those plants are popping out like mushrooms after rain. E.on, Audi, OMV etc.
It's the now and the future. Russian gas is just supporting the death of your neighbours.
>>60053493
>Neither have you if you think you want to have your energy supply rely on the aggressive Russians.
do you think they care about agressive Russia?
it doesn't matter the countries they call their allies will lose and will be subjugated, it's not of their concern
it's really time to form our own union, german lead EU is so shit, they don't even try to pretend
>>60053157
It is the experience of Finland, and Ukraina. The same with Norway.
You "beat" Russia by not nudging a inch until both parts agree on something they both agree on. It might take months, it might take years, it might take decades
I.E it took Norway 44 years of negotiating to draw a line on a map, with Russia.
Look up https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway–Russia_border#Delimitation_agreement
Finland still isn't a member of NATO, mostly because Russia is Russia.
Crimea is another good example. Revolution meant that foreign forces could infiltrate and state a hostile take over. Said hostile takeover succeed because Ukraine didn't fire back hard enough.
Now, Germany is in a better position. They have Poland, Belarus, the Balthic states and Ukraina as a buffer zone. Germany is no direct danger doing anything with Russia. And because its about Oil Money, its just about money.
But that doesn't mean Germany should be careless. "So long we pay them we influence them" is a very dangerous position to take, even if the option is nonexistent blackmail of Russians other export partners.
>>60053282
>Lay of the weed, dude. If the Chinese know that Euros don't want Russian genocide gas they'll have the upper hand in negotiations and won't pay that much.
Gas prices are tied to the oil price, stupid.
>Of course Germans might pay in a similar situation more since they love Russian attacks.
Germany will pay less with Nord Stream because it saves transit fees. And much of Western Europe, too, as the capacity is such that is supplies Britain, France, Austria and BeNeLux and makes the Ukraine route and Yamal pipeline superfluous.
>Less Russian tanks since they can't get good price from the Chinese.
Nice claim without proof. Plus more Chinese tanks as a result of easier access to energy for China.
>Chinese want energy independence
Chinese want energy security. Totally different thing.
>More Chinese tanks is good for Europe since it puts more pressure on the aggressive Russians.
How stupid can you be!? China is already several times more powerful than Russia. More integration of Siberia with China only worsens the imbalance and makes Siberia with its vast resources eventually a Chinese colony.
>Read a book, fucking development helper homo.
Leave your basement every once in a while.
>>60053584
>do you think they care about agressive Russia?
They should since Russia won't hesitate to coerce even Germany for money if they get their grip firm enough. That's what I'm saying. That German is being short-sighted.
I really don't understand why they want to buy Russian gas because they could be energy independent through technology.
>>60053758
they aim to subjugate Central Europe once again, and they are to weak to do it by themselves only, they need r*ssians
>>60053493
>It's not.
It is.
>Neither have you if you think you want to have your energy supply rely on the aggressive Russians.
You are just dumb and know nothing of the world.
>They are paying you to use solar power in the summers.
State subsidies. You think that money falls from the sky?
>Those plants are popping out like mushrooms after rain. E.on, Audi, OMV etc.
Not one single commercial project. All test facilities.
>Russian gas is just supporting the death of your neighbours.
Silly kid. Russia doesn't dare touch a NATO ally. And Russian gas is by far the cheapest alternative on the market.
>>60053660
>Germany is no direct danger doing anything with Russia
While this is true, there are other consequences. By becoming dependent on russian energy, Germany is forced to give Russia political concessions, and those are not insignificant. Germany's foreign policy becomes aligned to Putin's authoritarian imperialism and deepening business ties between germans and russians in an uneven relationship allows russians to influence Germany's political and economic landscape.
It's the same shit every time european corporations urge the government to stay friends with eastern dictators.
>>60052824
Merkel was not part of Schröders government. She was leader of the opposition.
>>60051696
>OMG HYBRID WAR, PUTIN EVIL, INVASION ANY SECOND NOW, JOIN NATO
Yeah no, the whole LNG terminal-brainfart popped up from the anti-Russian hysteria and US shills trying to use that to push their million times more expensive fracked LNG down everyones throat. LNG is flat out not commercially viable, our gov is not in a financial position to subsidize it and even EU said no to paying enough to make it viable (with our own money that we give them to do silly projects around the continent).
Also, the fact that Russians only ever had a minority share in Gasum makes your sperging look even more retarded
>>60053717
>Gas prices are tied to the oil price, stupid.
Yes, the prices are, costs aren't, fucking idiot. Gas trade isn't free of transaction costs like international stock trade.
>Germany will pay less with Nord Stream because it saves transit fees. And much of Western Europe, too, as the capacity is such that is supplies Britain, France, Austria and BeNeLux and makes the Ukraine route and Yamal pipeline superfluous.
And Russians will say that China wants to pay more for the gas and what's gonna happen then? Germany pays more. Russia could just say they won't deliver more gas unless Germany pays more. It's a fucking monopoly. Even more so than the OECD, fucking Einstein.
>Nice claim without proof. Plus more Chinese tanks as a result of easier access to energy for China.
>PROOOFS
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/law-of-supply-demand.asp
>Chinese want energy security. Totally different thing.
Ultimate energy security is to control the production like the French do with Nuclear.
>15] At the time of the oil crisis most of France's electricity came from foreign oil. Nuclear power allowed France to compensate for its lack of indigenous energy resources by applying its strengths in heavy engineering.[18][19] The situation was summarized in a slogan: "In France, we do not have oil, but we have ideas."[20]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_France#History
>How stupid can you be!? China is already several times more powerful than Russia. More integration of Siberia with China only worsens the imbalance and makes Siberia with its vast resources eventually a Chinese colony.
That's the dream. Nothign wrong with that.
>Leave your basement every once in a while.
Keeeping people in basements is a Germanic thing, fucking unterschit skeletor.
>>60053660
>It is the experience of Finland, and Ukraina. The same with Norway.
Negative. Finland and Norway have experienced no harm from Russia. And with Ukraine Russia actually play low ball before invading. So it actually didn't bark before biting!
>I.E it took Norway 44 years of negotiating to draw a line on a map, with Russia.
Uhh, big deal. Germany has still unresolved border issues with the Netherlands, and the US with Canada. Stuff like this is far more common than you think.
>Finland still isn't a member of NATO, mostly because Russia is Russia.
Finland isn't in NATO because they're dumb. They should've joined no later than after the Helsinki Final Act. It's their own fault for not doing so, not Russia's.
>Crimea is another good example.
Crimea is a good example that Russia doesn't bark before biting. And Nord Stream is a good example that Eastern Europeans are all bark and no bite.
>And because its about Oil Money, its just about money.
I already explained the strategic rationale. It's far beyond a purely European scope. China is a greater threat than Russia. Far greater. And the rest really is just economical.
>>60053884
>It is.
It's not
>You are just dumb and know nothing of the world.
It's you who is naive enough to trust the ruskies.
>State subsidies. You think that money falls from the sky?
Solar power "falls" from the sky. Russian gas is going to end. Why not invest in perpetual energy instead of russian genocide gas?
>Not one single commercial project. All test facilities.
Yeah, they just release the gas to air afterwards, fucktard.
>Silly kid. Russia doesn't dare touch a NATO ally.
We are not in NATO.
>And Russian gas is by far the cheapest alternative on the market.
And the deadliest.
>>60044535
>Why does Germany want to reinforce its dependence on Russian oil and undermine position of its eastern European allies in EU and NATO as transit countries?
?
Whaaa waaaaaa RUSSIA EBUL
STAHP THIS RIGH NOW /thread
>>60045681
When has Russia ever cut off gas supplies?
Where is the source for this?
Even when Ukraine was stealing half of the Russian gas that flowed through its territory in 2014-2015, Russia still delivered the contracted amount.
100% of Russian oil arrives at the destination. That's why you faggots buy it.
>>60054117
>being this butthurt of a 100% accurate comment
The terminal isn't that expensive neither is the gas. Of course there's no obligation to buy LNG if you have a terminal. You actually don't know the price of Russia gas unless you're Juha Sipilä posting on a Chinese basket weaving forum.
There are also other supplier for LNG for example Iran, they would probably even be cheaper than US shale. It brakes the Russian monopoly and makes it impossible to coerce us with gas since we would have alternative sellers.
>Also, the fact that Russians only ever had a minority share in Gasum makes your sperging look even more retarded
Yeah, and they used their share against Finnish national interests.
>>60054141
>Finland and Norway have experienced no harm from Russia.
Norway considers everything north of Tronderlag to be expandable. And lived the entire cold war of being close allies with both part.
Finland has been bullied since the 2nd world war, and only stopped getting super bullied in the power vacuum between Soviet Collapse and Russia recovering.
>Stuff like this is far more common than you think.
It is, but not when dealing with something that has been set in stone for about 80 years before that. Most modern diplomancy over borders is about isles, not about actual borders.
>Finland isn't in NATO because they're dumb.
Finland would have signed up in 1949 if they could. But since they have the neighbors they do, they could not.
>Crimea is a good example that Russia doesn't bark before biting.
Hostile takeover via rebel funding and proxy warfare is barking. Its the kind of barking where you test if the state will do its job(just shoot and imprison everyone) or don't do its job(let Russian troops wage proxy warfare long enough to just take it over).
>. China is a greater threat than Russia.
It might be, but we don't border them. Nor are they taking over neighbor states.
As dangerous as they are, we have a 5-8 state buffer via the Arabic states alone.
And Russia has Mongolia as a buffer state.
>>60054141
>Finland and Norway have experienced no harm from Russia.
German education right here, folks.
>>60051700
>They are becoming isolated. Not very smart
>says the island shithole voting on leaving the EU completely
>>60054466
>Russian gas
Actually about 50% of it was bought from Turkmenistan and then run through a couple fake overseas companies before selling it forward to inflate the price and allow various key players in Russia and Turkmenistan to pocket the extra money.
>>60044535
Tighter trade links reduces the chance for war
>>60054466
This.
Even at the height of the cold war, Russia still delivered.
If anything, a pipeline without Russian influence in the south would be nice to buy Central Asian gas.
>>60054581
See
>>60054058
There is a price.
>>60054513
> Norway considers everything north of Tronderlag to be expandable. And lived the entire cold war of being close allies with both part.
what the fuck do expect while being a member of anti soviet alliance and sharing border with soviets
EBIL RUSSIANS WHY SO AGGRESSIVE JUST LET ME JOIN ANTI SOVIET ALLIANCE AND ATTACK YOU ;(( OH YOU CAN COUNTER ATTACK?? REALLY? SO AGGRESSIVE!!!!
>>60051700
>They are becoming isolated. Not very smart
>says the island shithole voting on leaving the EU completely>>60052327
>What they could also have done is to invest solar power plants in Spain, Italy or Northern Africa and transfer that energy to gas.
Armchair energy economists that think they know better than German leadership are simply retarded.
>>60052393
>never just commercial
? Source needed ?
>>60052401
>then bite if they yield
Uhh what?
>>60054581
Not if they are lopsided. In that case it just promotes cuckoldry.
>>60052520
>Going by how Russians do submarine espionage?
Any evidence of this?
Going by how America used NSA to spy on everyone in Europe, maybe you should be watching your backs.
>>60054139
>Yes, the prices are, costs aren't, fucking idiot
You talked about negotiations. There's nothing to negotiate there.
>And Russians will say that China wants to pay more for the gas and what's gonna happen then?
Nothing because Nord Stream II is a go, which binds consumer and supplier for decades, including prices. These are always long term contracts. You should know this if you were as smart as you act. This geopolitical victory over China is already in the EU's bag, thanks to the support of various Western European governments for the Nord Stream consortium.
>It's a fucking monopoly.
No it isn't. South Stream would have been which is why it violated EU rules and had to be abandoned, no matter what silly shit the Italians try to imply. Nord Stream isn't.
>http://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/law-of-supply-demand.asp
Lol show the actual price to support your actual claim. Oh wait you can't as you were just speculating about some hypothetical bullshit. That's what your entire argument is based upon.
>Ultimate energy security is to control the production like the French do with Nuclear.
Lol the French have to ration electricity in times of drought (meaning every summer, and increasingly often in winter, too) and are dependent on African shitholes for their Uranium supplies. You don't really believe they went to Mali because of Boko Haram, do you? No, they wen't there because they fear it might spread over to Niger which is one of their major Uranium suppliers.
>That's the dream. Nothign wrong with that.
Lol if it required any further proof that you don't know shit about the world, here it is.
>Keeeping people in basements is a Germanic thing, fucking unterschit skeletor.
Haha, gets told, spergs autism
>>60054479
You don'T built a LNG terminal for hundreds of millions of dollar and then don't use it. That's not how you make business.
>>60054621
>what the fuck do expect while being a member of anti soviet alliance and sharing border with soviets
Literally not being invaded, nothing more.
Diplomancy? Just not being in a situation where Gulag Captain comes over and says "do this, or we invade, NYET!"
>>60053327
>>60053389
>what is OPEC
>>60054627
Yeah, Obama is correct in everything too.
>? Source needed ?
I'm not going to spoon feed you this very thread, ruskie cuck.
>>60054581
Tighter MUTUAL trade links reduce chance of war.
Single side export just means the political game just keeps on going.
I.E Why Poland is a east europa shithole, even if they export workforce to entire of Europa to build economy.
>>60054550
(Citation needed)
>>60054581
This is empirically proven.
>>60054799
Germany exports more to Russia than it imports.
>>60054657
>not if they are lopsided
>implying Germany didn't just produce all of its energy needs with renewable just a few days ago
>>60054717
Have you been invaded? No.
EBIL SOVIETS didn't want war.
Even your fucking Okkupert shows it clearly. EU-Norwegian conflict, EU commanded their marionette russia to invade Norway. It's not like russia did it by itself.
>>60054753
>I have no sources so I accuse you of being X nationality like that changes something
>>>/pol/
>>60054717
When has Norway been invaded?
You seem autistic.
>>60054939
he's an EU shill
>>60054799
Russia has a trade deficit with Germany.
Use fucking google before you shitpost.
>>60054657
Russia has a significant trade deficit with Germany.
>>60044535
Well, I do know that Nord Stream 2 is going to be built because ukraine went crazy again. And everyone is kinda tired of that.
As for "eastern allies", their interests are not as important for Russia and Germany, I suppose.
Those bigger countries can live without trade with small, but small are dependant on big.
>>60054302
>It's not
It is.
>It's you who is naive enough to trust the ruskies.
Lol making business with someone doesn't equate to trusting them, stupid. You suffer from OCD, it seems.
>Solar power "falls" from the sky.
PV panels and electricity cables don't. Neither does the energy to make them.
>Russian gas is going to end.
Everything is. So just kill yourself if you can't bear it.
>Why not invest in perpetual energy instead of russian genocide gas?
Open your calculator and see for yourself. Why do you think pic related has been abandoned in favor of coal oil and gas?
>Yeah, they just release the gas to air afterwards, fucktard.
They didn't build it to make money but to test out processes and gain knowledge. I'm all in favor of that. But this doesn't mean that it makes economic sense to do it large scale. It doesn't.
>We are not in NATO.
And also not our neighbor.
>And the deadliest.
For your brain cells.
>This Finn getting BTFO by the German and now screaming RUSSIAN RUSSIAN RUSSIAN
>>60054621
>AND ATTACK YOU
No one has expressed interest in a military campaign against Russia, at least not in Finland. Russian representatives are quick to voice not so subtle threats whenever Finland so much as measures public interest in NATO membership. You can say it's all talk but Finland's incentive is to create a deterrent while Russia believes it is justified in invading Finland as a supposedly proportionate response. There's something wrong about that, Kremlin still believes it's 'entitled' to a neutral (read: subservient) Finland.
>>60054682
>These are always long term contracts
Means nothing to Russians. They'll just say they'll cut the gas if Germany won't pay more, kiddo.
>No it isn't. South Stream would have been which is why it violated EU rules and had to be abandoned, no matter what silly shit the Italians try to imply. Nord Stream isn't.
It is. In the other end Russia, not some free market place where everyone can do their bidding.
>Lol show the actual price to support your actual claim. Oh wait you can't as you were just speculating about some hypothetical bullshit. That's what your entire argument is based upon.
So now where leaving the current basis of economics behind while using them as an argument otherwise? Less buyers, less money. Simple as that.
>Lol the French have to ration electricity in times of drought (meaning every summer, and increasingly often in winter, too)
Just build more NPPs. Problem solved.
>and are dependent on African shitholes for their Uranium supplies. You don't really believe they went to Mali because of Boko Haram, do you? No, they wen't there because they fear it might spread over to Niger which is one of their major Uranium suppliers.
Of course not but who gives a shit. French just go there to pound few tribes and problems are gone. You can't do that with Russia so the French have a wider set of options and of course e.g. Australia has enough Uranium to power everyone. With Russia you get into much more problems than some shit in Mali.
>Lol if it required any further proof that you don't know shit about the world, here it is.
No Russia. No problems.
>Haha, gets told, spergs autism
LMAO, fucking weak homo from Russia without any arguments but belief that Russians are the chosen ones.
>>60054747
That's just price. Normal monopoly business. They won't ever come over the Finnish border with tanks.
>>60055069
I would preempitvely invade a country that is about to join the alliance that is an existential threat to my country.
Says a lot about Russia that it hasn't done that.
>>60055106
>No Russia. No problems.
Uliluli pls
>>60044535
I think it's easier to build a gas pipe on sea than land. + Less instability. Also,this looks like something a Russian would dream up,to fuck the balts in particular. +German economy is higher than all the potential transit cunts combined,and that many times over.
>>60054919
>EBIL SOVIETS didn't want war.
They did when they attacked Finland.
>>60055106
> They'll just say they'll cut the gas if Germany won't pay more,
Why would we give gas if germany stops pay
EBIL RUSSIA DOESN'T WANT GIVE GAS FOR FREE REEEEEEEEEEEE
>>60055157
>but they'll destroy our economy just like they did in 1973-1979
Why haven't the Russians come over the border? Finland has been neutral since 1945. It even joined the EU and hosts US/NATO exercises once in a while.
Why hasn't Russia invaded?
If they are the irrational mad dog you describe, why haven't they struck before its too late?
>>60055060
>Open your calculator and see for yourself. Why do you think pic related has been abandoned in favor of coal oil and gas?
Because no will for nuclear. I just wish the fucking Chernobyl generation would age and die already, so we can go towards more background radiation.
> These are always long term contracts.
Contracts doesn't mean anything towards a sovereign state. They can just cut out, and that will be the end of it.
Its also the reason why nobody wants to do politics with internal China: The law system not be trusted to deal with scam or contract disagreements.
>>60054939
Ok, so why did you try to undermine me with "armchair economist"? Tit for tat, fatso.
ctrl + F "gasum" for example. This shit is in the thread so get the fuck out with your retarded proofstering.
>>60055211
>hurdur we're still eternally fearful over a war that happened 76 years ago that we won
>>60055211
evil finns then joined nazis
we felt finland was an evil country
WHY DID THEY ATTACK US :((((( WE JUST WANTED TO ATTACK THEM WITH NAZIS 2 YEARS LATER AND TAKE SOME CLAY IT WAS EXCELLENT PLAN :((((((((((((((
>ITT: shitholes and leeches are mad that Germoney is making money with someone they dislike
>>60055293
>Chernobyl generation
>Fukushima generation
And there was an accident at one of the usa's npp's before Chernobyl, right?
But, Russians are making a new generation of npp reactors that will prevent atmosphere leaks, I think.
>>60055266
>neutral
That is a very naive reading of history. Finland was subservient to USSR until its dissolution and usurprisingly joined EU when Russia was at its weakest.
>>60055293
>Because no will for nuclear. I just wish the fucking Chernobyl generation would age and die already, so we can go towards more background radiation.
Or maybe it's because nuclear is not cost efficient in today's world of high political risk.
>Contracts doesn't mean anything towards a sovereign state. They can just cut out, and that will be the end of it.
>Its also the reason why nobody wants to do politics with internal China: The law system not be trusted to deal with scam or contract disagreements.
Well if Russia wants to permamently lose half its economy, it can go full retard and do that.
Russia isn't the only energy provider for Germany.
Germany on May 24th produced all its energy with renewables. The reason they buy gas is to sell it for cheaper to Western Europe because Eastern Europe has high transit fees.
Germany itself doesn't need Russian gas to survive.
Russia holds no political advantage over Germany with this pipeline. It only provides 10% of Germany's oil needs anyway.
>>60055472
>Finland was subservient to USSR until its dissolution
>implying not being total assholes like Eastern Europe is being "subservient".
>>60044535
germans are cuck, and violating the sanctions by doing this
>>60055456
I think there was. But the general trend is that Anti Nuclear isn't Anti Nuclear, but its more like "Let plants with severe design flaws keep on running with ancient reactors because you are not allowed to build new ones"
>>60055622
>violating the sanctions by doing this
>>60055472
> subservient
Getting tons of money from SU and being democratic and western at the same time for just not joining NATO? What can be better?
>>60055607
You are quick to jump to hyperboles.
>>60055622
We are cucks because we don't let ourselves be pressured by the US? That really makes no sense at all.
>>60055060
>It is.
It's not.
>Lol making business with someone doesn't equate to trusting them, stupid. You suffer from OCD, it seems.
It surely does when you're willing to trust someone with your basic need which is shelter.
>Everything is. So just kill yourself if you can't bear it.
Lol, major anal bleed for the fact that the Russian gas will become increasingly hard to extract not to mention that we have to stop using fossils anyway. Does this fact hurt your feelings, fucking weak manlet fuck?
>Open your calculator and see for yourself. Why do you think pic related has been abandoned in favor of coal oil and gas?
Solar is cheaper than coal. What's the problem?
Someone at Bloomberg seemed to open a calculator.
>promised to produce electricity at the cheapest rate, from any source, anywhere in the world
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-04-06/wind-and-solar-are-crushing-fossil-fuels
>They didn't build it to make money but to test out processes and gain knowledge. I'm all in favor of that. But this doesn't mean that it makes economic sense to do it large scale. It doesn't.
It's very simple tech and it will prevail very soon since it's the best choice.
>And also not our neighbor.
YEah, fuck us then and support the Russians.
>For your brain cells.
Yes, get a Russian shrapnel paid by German gas producers through your head and that is what happens.
>>60055659
>>60055607
>arguing with F*nns
>>60055545
>permamently lose half its economy from not selling energy to Germany
Amusing
>Germany itself doesn't need Russian gas to survive.
But its industry does need.it
>>60055327
>evil finns then joined nazis
Asked different countries for help AFTER you attacked them*
The British didn't want to piss you off, the French were too busy not doing anything at all, so the Nazis, the only ones left, provided material support. Not entirely sure what they teach people about the Winter War in Russia, but I stand pretty confident in telling you that it's highly biased. Literally 1000s of volunteers from the rest of the Nordic countries took up arms against the advancing Soviets, including a fair share of people who would later be influential members of the Norwegian resistance against the Nazis.
>>60054513
>Norway considers everything north of Tronderlag to be expandable. And lived the entire cold war of being close allies with both part.
>Finland has been bullied since the 2nd world war, and only stopped getting super bullied in the power vacuum between Soviet Collapse and Russia recovering.
State the number of Norwegian and Finnish deaths as a consequence of Russia's actions (or even the Soviet Union's post-ww2) with proof.
>It is
Which makes it unsuitable to use it as a proof for your claim.
>Finland would have signed up in 1949 if they could.
They could. It's their own fault that they didn't. Not Russia's
>Hostile takeover via rebel funding and proxy warfare is barking.
No that's actually biting. And it happened without prior barking.
>It might be, but we don't border them.
We live in a globalized world. Long distance doesn't mean it doesn't affect us.
>Nor are they taking over neighbor states.
You realize what the official policy on Taiwan by the PRoC is? Or their current actions in the SCS? Or Tibet? Or how the border issues at the Ussuri were handled? Or their role during the Vietnam war?
>we have a 5-8 state buffer via the Arabic states alone.
No we aren't under direct physical threat by them, and neither by Russia, for that matter. But the consequences are always grave, they are a giant.
>And Russia has Mongolia as a buffer state.
The longest common border with any country Russia has with guess who? Look it up if you don't know!
>>60055223
The Germans have to pay if they don't want to freeze.
>>60055422
>Finland
>shithole
>leech
if you say so
>>60055692
americans have nothing to do with this.
taking gas from the russians is basically paying awful dictators to stay in place.
>>60055327
You were allied with Germans in -39.
>>60055659
And sending them back for monkey model T-72s. Fucking primo shit right there.
>>60055780
> paying awful dictators
Then Germany should stop buying it indeed. Then Merkel might not get paid to stay
>>60055780
this
france the best ally
>>60055765
FUCKING RUSSIA WANTS MONEY FOR THEIR GAS REEEEEEEEE STOP BULLY FINLAND AND UKRAINE PUTIN = HITLER!!!!!!!!!!!
>>60055796
you2
evil finns still proud their cooperation with nazis
>>60055730
>State the number of Norwegian and Finnish deaths as a consequence of Russia's actions
Different guy, but you do know what the term Cold War pertains to, right?
Cross-border radiation, daily breaches of sovereign airspace, countless accounts of telecommunications sabotage, frivolent espionage... I could go on and on about Soviet/Russian aggression (and that's not even including the rapes committed in the North at the end of WW2), but the fact of the matter is that Norway has had it pretty easy compared to certain other countries.
>>60055327
Stalin decides its a good idea to invade Finland
To test military engine, and maybe go trough it and take some ice free coast for winter
Campaign doesn't go so well, ends up with literally taking meter by meter with human waves
Finland lives in terror ever since, with good reason. Losing its foot is hard.
Finland wasn't that far of being a East European Soviet shithole, all it took was for Soviet to just go there.
>>60055930
>Cross-border radiation, daily breaches of sovereign airspace, countless accounts of telecommunications sabotage, frivolent espionage
That's kinda an everyday thing for most countries, isn't it? Just look at Turkey and Greece.
>>60055962
> Finland wasn't that far of being a East European Soviet shithole
Soviet union is no longer exists but you still mad?
Nato exists, america exists, norway exists
YOU WON WHAT'S THE PROBLEM NOW IDIOT?
>>60055930
There was zero rapes or looting in Soviet liberation of Norway, you ungrateful fuck.
>>60055692
You're right, you're not cucks, merely opportunistic hypocrites. You know that you can squeeze monetary savings out of the deal, and you know that USA will bail you out should you ever get into problems. You also know that you will never have to pay for anything bad happening to countries between you and Russia.
Nord Stream 2 is perfectly rational project, just like every other deal that internalizes benefits and externalizes costs.
>>60056265
>You also know that you will never have to pay for anything bad happening to countries between you and Russia.
According to both Germany and Russia we are merely a buffer zone, it's not like they treat us like real countries.
>>60056074
>Soviet liberation of Norway
The Nazis were literally retreating. Not so much a liberation, was it? Not only that, but you violated the treaty of Yalta, and you yourself retreated a month later. Your advance resulted in the scorching and destruction of literally every single piece of farmland north of Mo i Rana, not to mention the burning of every important building, every school, every police station, every harbour and every worthwhile settlement in the entire region. If you've ever looked at a picture of any town in Finnmark, you'll see that there isn't a single building older than 1946. We had to literally reclaim 1/3 of our entire landmass.
>you ungrateful fuck
Not so much to be grateful for, to be honest. You gave the civilians food, which was a nice gesture, but not allowing them passage into Sweden, where refugee camps were waiting for them, well, that wasn't the nicest thing you could've done.
>>60056469
a few months*
>>60056469
Somehow "ebil soviet barbarians came and raped 10.000.000 of norwegian men, women, chlidren" transformed into "they gave us food but didn't let go to sweden"
that's quite... different
>>60056029
The problem is that your historians are today rewriting history to make it seem like Finland attacked Russia, that World War 2 started in 1941, that Prague invasion was "rescuing allies from fascist coup"
I do not believe that people would be genuinely upset about past tragedies if your manlet leader and his nashisty hitlerjugend did not try to pretend they never took place.
>>60056029
>Soviet union is no longer exists
But the people that made Soviet union exists, and they trained replacements.
If Soviet had ended with its entire leadership and state being executed, New Russia would have been clean.
Instead its just Oligarchs, Post Soviet Politicians and a literal KGB Agent running Russia today.
>>60056591
Who would they even tell?
There were no authorities. No one. The Norwegian state never even acknowledged anything, either, out of fear of pissing you off.
>>60056788
>leadership
You know that would not have been enough. KGB was left behind and all its collaborators and criminal allies.
The cancerous and shortsighted economic dogma that was religion of the day during their transition didn't help either. Russia should have gotten a mashall plan, instead it got treatment that made disease fester.
>>60056678
> that Prague invasion was "rescuing allies from fascist coup"
yeah they were saving communist allies from coup
weren't there czech commies? ;)
> World War 2 started in 1941
not really, we just focus on eastern front because it was our part of war and most important, 75% of german soldiers died there
all countries do that, they know nothing in france/usa about eastern front but they strongly believe Resistance defeated ebil hitler
>>60056788
> Instead its just Oligarchs, Post Soviet Politicians and a literal KGB Agent running Russia today.
West should've helped us with democracy. You know we never lived in democratic state.
>>60056794
> Who would they even tell?
> nobody told of any rape case in norway by soviets
> but it happened!!! i swear it happened!!!!!
>>60056883
>yeah they were saving communist allies from coup
No, they were saving their control over them.
>weren't there czech commies? ;)
Yes, and part of them genuinely wanted to make the country a better place, in line with socialist values too... theoretical socialist that is, not the cryptofascist stalinist shit Russia adopted.
>all countries do that, they know nothing in france/usa about eastern front but they strongly believe Resistance defeated ebil hitler
I sincerely doubt that the French are as delusional about how "pure and moral" their role in the war was as you are.
I doubt that most of them would defend munich agreement with the same fervour Russians defend ribbentrop-molotov one, too.
>West should've helped us with democracy. You know we never lived in democratic state.
That much is true though.
>>60055106
>Means nothing to Russians. They'll just say they'll cut the gas if Germany won't pay more, kiddo.
Dude, these contracts are all long term, including prices. There's no room to demand more money. Russians are actually crying right know because gas prices are tied to oil prices and since the oil price collapse they get a lot less for their gas. But they could do nothing about it because these contracts are fixed for decades. And so they continue to deliver as contractually agreed, as they always did. Russia has always been a reliable business partner. They simply can't afford to not be. As I explained before the dependency is mutual, not one-sided, and they need us even more than we need them.
>It is
No it's not. It's a multinational consortium and adheres to EU rules regarding monopolies. South Stream didn't. Nord Stream does.
>So now where leaving the current basis of economics behind while using them as an argument otherwise? Less buyers, less money.
Show what the Chinese pay. Why so afraid to prove your point?
>Just build more NPPs. Problem solved.
Dude, nuclear power is the very reason France has to ration electricity in times of drought, because nuclear power plants are very demanding regarding cooling water. Three quarters of France's surface water consumption is just for cooling water. And France has just three quarters of Germany's population while being twice as large and more access to water. Germany doesn't have the cooling capacity. Every summer they have to demand shop owners to turn down window lights at night. Once they even had to shut down the lighting of the Eiffel tower. And with global warming and more frequent weather extremes the problems are getting worse. During winter when the Loire freezes over they have to shut down the Saint-Laurent plant. No cooling water, no nuclear power. Simple as that.
>>60056883
>West should've helped us with democracy. You know we never lived in democratic state.
Its very easy.
1. Kill everyone who is a cunt
2. Kill everyone trained by a cunt
3. Let the elections and a 20 year period of civil war commence
4. Have fun with now stable state
>>60055106
Additionally NPPs are just baseload power plants that can't follow daily or seasonally varying demands. This is why France has to sell surplus electricity at firesale prices, a bit like Germany's coal plants when it's sunny and solar power is crowding out other sources (only solar power is highest when demand is highest). But Europe's power grid can only afford one France, not two or three or many.
>French just go there to pound few tribes and problems are gone.
They're not gone. It may just as well develop to be the same quagmire that the Americans experience in the Midle East due to their oil-addiction and their rather questionable relationship with Saudi-Arabia. I prefer dealing with Russians over Middle Easterners and Africans. This is much more predictable and civilized. And it doesn't mean I trust or love Russians. It's just business.
>and of course e.g. Australia has enough Uranium to power everyone.
At what prices? It's one thing to pay an African to fuck up his own country and personal health for a couple of glass beads. It's another thing to pay the world's most powerful mining consortium for resources from a modern industrialized Western country with environmental standards and high wages.
>With Russia you get into much more problems than some shit in Mali.
We never had to fire a single bullet to get Russian gas.
>No Russia. No problems.
A China with the resources of Siberia would make you wish Russia back. Trust me.
>LMAO, fucking weak homo from Russia without any arguments but belief that Russians are the chosen ones.
You get constantly owned and still don't want to learn anything. Pathetic.
>>60056883
>all countries do that
Rewriting history? Sure people see things differently, but you're basically all alone in that one, to tell you the truth.
>they know nothing in france/usa about eastern front
You'd be surprised. Did my 2nd year of high school in France. Vividly remember seeing documentaries (some Russian made) on the subject.
>West should've helped us with democracy.
>You know we never lived in democratic state.
Don't blame your own inability to run your country on us. Granted, more could have been done in the aftermath of the dissolution, but again, that's still mostly on you, considering you let the situation turn into literal anarchy.
>>60057266
>Don't blame your own inability to run your country on us. Granted, more could have been done in the aftermath of the dissolution, but again, that's still mostly on you, considering you let the situation turn into literal anarchy.
I disagree with that. The country was told to figuratively turn itself upside down, and its previous modus operandi consistent of rooting out, punishing and/or warping anyone who could guide it into respectability. Some worthwhile ideas, like stealing being bad, looking out for the fellow guy etc. were made to look unfashionable in environment of competition, and others, that are rewarded by the new system, like ambition and drive to act and think outside of the box, have been previously warped by apparatus that suppressed dissent into notion that it's normal to cheat and take advantage of stupidity and flaws of others.
Russia was not alone in having problems with this.
>>60056469
>FUCKING RUSSIANS PIGS HOW DARE THEY LIBERATE US
wew lad
/thread
>>60055293
>Because no will for nuclear.
Nope, these windmills were abandoned even in France. And nucelar isn't perpetual energy either. At least not in the sense that Finnish anon meant it.
>Contracts doesn't mean anything towards a sovereign state. They can just cut out, and that will be the end of it.
No they don't because they'd hurt themselves more than us in the process. The dependency is mutual and they're the junior partner. They'd be even more so if we'd finally agree to a common European energy policy and act as a single buyer vis-a-vis Russian energy resources. But Eastern European autist sperging and nationalist stupidity prevents it.
>Its also the reason why nobody wants to do politics with internal China: The law system not be trusted to deal with scam or contract disagreements.
Everybody wants to do business with China despite the mistrust. With Russia there's less mistrust (albeit not trust) but also less business opportunity. But Russian energy resources are a good business opportunity. We don't need to trust them to do business with them, even though past trading experiences have been flawless.
>>60057677
>HOW DARE THEY LIBERATE US
You didn't. The Germans capitulated.
>>60046600
I always like to see poor people giving advice to rich ones.
>>60057704
>No they don't because they'd hurt themselves more than us in the process. The dependency is mutual and they're the junior partner. They'd be even more so if we'd finally agree to a common European energy policy and act as a single buyer vis-a-vis Russian energy resources. But Eastern European autist sperging and nationalist stupidity prevents it.
Would Germany want to have a single buyer system in place though?
I can imagine Poland, especially their present government, sperging out against it for whatever reason (like losing transit fees), but would Germany consent to it if it resulted into more expensive gas for them? (since single buyer would get more favourable deal than some individual buyers, but possibly worse than what a preferred client like Germany gets)
>>60055622
>violating the sanctions by doing this
[citation needed]
Dude, the sanctions were specifically designed to not target general business or general population but only persons from the circles of power. This was lessons learned from past sanctions in other parts of the world, as the general population suffered most which aligned them with their dictators.
Putin, the smart ass, introduced sanctions of his own which actually did hit the general population of Russia when he forbade food imports from the EU. He got his state propaganda to make some 60% of the Russian population believe the lie that it was the EU that forbade food exports to Russia, leading to a similar effect of alignment of the affected population with the dictator.
>>60044535
>Kaliningrad
hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
>>60057704
>Everybody wants to do business with China despite the mistrust.
Everyone wants to deal with China, OUTSIDE of China. To the point where going to China to setup export is a literal good job.
>>60055699
>It's not.
It is
>It surely does when you're willing to trust someone with your basic need which is shelter.
Wat?
>Lol, major anal bleed for the fact that the Russian gas will become increasingly hard to extract not to mention that we have to stop using fossils anyway. Does this fact hurt your feelings, fucking weak manlet fuck?
Butthurt that entrepreneurs can do the math and still prefer fossil fuel over unsubsidized renewables and will so for a long time?
>Solar is cheaper than coal.
It's not
>Someone at Bloomberg seemed to open a calculator.
>>promised to produce electricity at the cheapest rate, from any source, anywhere in the world
>http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-04-06/wind-and-solar-are-crushing-fossil-fuels
Read your own article. It says right there: Government subsidies.
The money for that doesn't fall from the sky. And just because it doesn't show up on your electricity bill doesn't mean you don't have to pay it. You pay it via taxes.
>It's very simple tech and it will prevail very soon since it's the best choice.
Fossil fuel have to be a lot more expensive before renewables can compete without subsidies. We're still decades away from that. Meanwhile we take cheap Russian gas.
>YEah, fuck us then and support the Russians.
Nord Stream supports large parts of Western Europe. The gas will supply Germany, Austria, France, Britain and BeNeLux at the very least. It will fuck Poland and Slovakia because they'll lose transit fees. That's it. No Russian invasion.
>Yes, get a Russian shrapnel paid by German gas producers through your head and that is what happens.
Russia doesn't dare touch NATO. They're not stupid. And less cheap energy for China means their military expansion ambitions are being slowed down. This is far more valuable as a geopolitical goal.
>>60044535
because merkel and her clique are literally slavaboo communists
>>60058074
how much land did britain lose after the war? :^)
>>60055699
>solar is cheaper than coal
wtf, you lost all 50 points of your argument with that one statement. fuckin clown.
>>60055723
45% of Russian gas exports go to Germany.
35% of German gas imports come from Russia.
Fossil fuels amount to 68% of Russia's export revenues.
Fossil fuels amount to 10% of Germany's import expenditures.
You tell me: who's more dependent on keeping it going?
>>60055930
>Cross-border radiation, daily breaches of sovereign airspace, countless accounts of telecommunications sabotage, frivolent espionage
all mutual
>I could go on and on about Soviet/Russian aggression (and that's not even including the rapes committed in the North at the end of WW2
We were talking post-ww2. Just because you crop the quote doesn't mean it's never been said.
>but the fact of the matter is that Norway has had it pretty easy compared to certain other countries.
So you couldn't name a single Finnish or Norwegian death as a result of Russia's (or even post-ww2 Soviet Union's) actions
q.e.d.
>>60057994
Germany is among the greatest advocats for more EU integration. Of course this includes energy policy. We're not the stupid isolationists. As for eventual prices: It's clear that it would be even cheaper than what Germany pays now, seeing that Germany takes up 45% of Russian gas exports and a single buyer has more power than 28 different ones.
Heck, Putin's attempts to drive wedges everywhere into the EU and make it dissolve didn't come from nowhere. It's his rationale of using energy as a foreign policy tool, which only works if the other party is too small to act on equal footing. A classic divide and conquer strategy. Who protested the resut of the Scottish independence referendum? Who supports separatists in all of Europe? Who supports the extreme left and the extreme right at the same time for the sole reason that both oppose the EU? It's so obvious, yet so many Europeans right now shit on the EU and are thereby doing Putin's bidding. And not just across the English Channel, but also and especially in Eastern Europe.
>>60058125
>Everyone wants to deal with China, OUTSIDE of China.
Everybody does business inside China, from Apple to VW to Toyota and GM/Fiat, because Chinese labor is still cheap.
>>60058013
Nobody ever claimed here that banning food was EU's or someone else sanction.
How does Germany make itself dependent on russian gas? They don't cut other sources of gas, energy, fuel or whatever, they just ensure that gas supplies will not be threatened by mad people between Russia and Germany like it was few years ago with Ukraine for example when they literally started stealing gas from pipes.
>>60044535
>Abloo bloooo why won't Germans settle for being powerless vassal state like us
Fucking disgusting
