Why are Americans like this?
You think the iPhone would have been made without Steve Jobs?
>>59399235
the iphone was just a pretty PDA with a great marketing team. we absolutely would have gotten here without them.
>>59399277
and a touch screen, but apple sure as fuck didn't invent those either.
>>59399235
Maybe not the exact same product, but yeah, pretty much.
It's unbelievable that people at the heart of the capitalist system don't know what a "capitalist" is. They literally can't distinguish the concept of "capitalist" from "inventor" or "manager".
>>59399395
What are you ranting about?
A person who goes into business for themselves is a capitalist.
>>59399395
>people at the heart
exactly. its our way of life we're raised like this. its why indians think rape is ok, the chinese don't have a problem with stealing ideas and calling them their own and koreans eat dog.
americans like to take credit for their predecessors and superiors instead of making anything of themselves
>>59399559
No, a capitalist is someone who lives off profit, interest or rent because they have property over something, independently of any contribution to society.
>>59398911
>Why are Americans like this?
Becasue they believe what the other Americans on TV tell them to believe.
>>59399559
yes but that doesn't mean they are a genius or innovator because they can sell something better than others. your post just kind of proved him right. you can't distinguish between them.
>>59399596
How can someone not understand the fundamental difference between someone who has to sell their labor and someone who makes money simply by virtue of a juridical relation?
>solely because of steve jobs
>>59399614
or someone who supports the principles of capitalism
>>59399663
shhhh america also believes that bill gates invented computers
also a lot of that stuff is not done by US firms/military first either
>>59399662
wtf are you talking about? if i sell my labor i'm a capitalist, my labor is capital. the judicial system helps me as well, sadly those with more capital are helped more. you can cry corruption but at the end of the day the system is working just fine.
>>59399695
That generates a lot of confusion. When people complain about "capitalists", people seem to think they're complaining about people who have a bigger salary or something.
>>59399731
>also a lot of that stuff is not done by US firms/military first either
fuck off you canuckadian
there's a reason we dump so much money into our military
>>59399735
>the system is working just fine.
the way it is meant too*. fine wasn't the best word there.
>>59399735
>if i sell my labor i'm a capitalist
No, you are most definitely not. That's exactly what I'm talking about.
>>59398911
they believe themselves to be a part of a person's supposed success by purchasing their product and generally worshiping them
they think 'one day that WILL be me i am so fucking smart and special' but the truth is that they're being shat on
>>59398911
>/pol/tards
theres your problem.
>>59399752
it doesn't generate confusion for a native speaker, though. thats why theres a growing sentiment of distrust in the US against capitalism.
The illusion of the American Dream pretty much. Slavery never got abolished in the United States, it just got a different name.
>>59399813
>bitching about /pol/ on 4chan
they don't go on other sites, act in your own interest and browse literally anywhere else
>ugh like capitalism is soooo bad
>>59399783
i am. i'm participating in capitalism. i'm selling labor. my labor is capital i can use to get money, and i can use that money as capital or to buy things that can be used as such. i might not be steve jobs rich but i'm technically playing the same game he is.
>>59399614
But that's wrong, you fucking commie monkey.
Elon Musk is a capitalist. Bill Gates is a capitalist. These men also made massive contributions to society through their inventive genius, from which they now reap the fruits of their labor through ownership of shares in the stocks of the companies they founded.
The only "capitalists" who live off profit gained from ventures without any contribution to society are land owners.
>>59399871
Macfags are so cringey
This country is full of them
Kill me now plz
>>59399874
No you're not. That's like saying a feudal lord and a peasant are "playing the same game: feudalism". They are absolutely not. One produces stuff and gets exploited. The other doesn't do anything and makes all the rules.
meanwhile in socialist utopias
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-05-15/state-of-emergency-declared-in-venezuela/7415504
>>59399874
>i'm technically playing the same game he is.
really?
>>59399830
> Slavery never got abolished in the United States, it just got a different name.
>implying you're less of a slave than the average American
Spot the bitter euro, whose glory days are far behind him.
>>59399943
land owners provide housing to be fair. you can build an apartment complex on a plot of land and house a lot more people than a few individuals could with houses.
>>59399943
>unironically believes the capitalist system is meritocratic
>>59399982
Joke's on you, I'm on welfare.
>>59399978
yes. its rigged in his favor and i'll probably never get to his point but i am a capitalist if i have a job in a capitalist country.
>>59399953
>One produces stuff and gets exploited. The other doesn't do anything and makes all the rules.
How come none of you mentally retarded pinkos ever invent something yourselves, to escape this "exploitation" you speak of? Oh, that's right: you lack the creative ability required to start a successful business.
>feudalism meme
Land is not the supreme measure of wealth anymore, you dumb cumt. I direct you here >>59399943
>>59400036
>i am a capitalist if i have a job in a capitalist country
>>59400036
>its rigged in his favor
more than that, the upper class has cemented and social mobility is worse than ever
you think he could spring out of the grave age 20 now with nothing and get where he got all over again in the current climate? we should be a bit more realistic here
you don't
>>59400033
>unironically believes his own commie utopia isn't a corruption-riddled, nepotistic cronyist garbage dump
>unironically uses strawmen
I explained to you, in very simple terms, why you were wrong in calling "capitalists" useless.
itt
https://youtu.be/zJBjjP8WSbc
>>59400074
>mentally retarded pinkos ever invent something yourselves
if the only difference between you and a billionaire is an invention why haven't you already done it?
>>59399953
Yes, someone who willingly sells their labor for the market price (wait, at least minimum wage) is actually just too stupid to recognize that they are being exploited.
>>59400082
>>59400082
i get that you believe all americans are slaves. i really do. and i get that you think having a job is disgraceful or w/e. its true our system is corrupt and its clear that capitalism doesn't really work out for the little guy. but at the end of the day steve jobs and i started the same way he was just very smart and lucky and managed to get ahead. in what way am i not using labor as capital? also i'm not forced to do it. i can drop out and go grow my own food and provide my own electricity if i really want to. i don't because i like buying useless baubles and drugs and such.
>>59400119
>more than that, the upper class has cemented and social mobility is worse than ever
Social mobility will never be high, and the reasoning behind this claim is simple: intelligence largely dictates one's potential in life. Rich people are, more often than not, smart, and will thus always manage to stay on top. The idiots, i.e. the masses, will never climb to the top with their inferior mental capability.
Blaming "the system" for poverty is a cheap excuse. The real problem lies in biological inequality.
>>59400193
>>59400194
the scariest thing is that these posts resemble worship
>>59400119
the majority of the upper class is new rich in this country. they mostly come from higher classes than i and they got a better start for sure. the game is shit and its rigged so that i'll almost certainly never get to far but i'm still playing it.
>>59400139
capitalists are useless. Work, be it physical or mental, is done by the general population. Innovation comes from a lot of places, but mostly from the middle-class. Capitalists just exploit the system.
Your equation capitalist=innovator is a laughable myth
>>59400158
>if the only difference between you and a billionaire is an invention why haven't you already done it?
Because I'm not an inventive genius, nor a genius in the more general sense of the word. I am, however, not a retarded pinko who literally blames "the system" and "rich people" for his own lack of financial success in life.
>>59400260
propose a better alternative
pro-tip:
socialism is not a better alternative
>>59400241
What are you babbling about?
>>59400241
its not though. i don't want to play theres better ways to run a society. but to claim that i'm somehow a slave is kind of ridiculous. i make more money every year and i have since high school. i won't be a millionaire but i'm comfortable.
>>59400235
>intelligence largely dictates one's potential in life
nah
i'll give you an example from our country about some guy you never heard
clive palmer (made his own political party because he's going broke and wanted to dodge unpaid wages) inherited money and bought a nickle farm for cheap. nickle exploded in price (i forget way) at random and bam you have a billionaire. the man is a childish dumbfuck, not a genius. he's richer than you
>>59400260
>how can an american be a capitalist when it fucks them over?
>live in south america and support communism.
really? do you not see the irony?
>>59400284
What about a system in which you own the fruits of your own labor?
>>59400324
nickle mine
fuck it i'm going to bed now not functioning
>>59400241
What do you suggest we worship, if not the current system? Let me guess: marxism?
>>59400260
>Work, be it physical or mental, is done by the general population.
>mental work is done by the general population
You couldn't be more wrong. The world is a shitty place because the public, including you, believe ridiculous shit such as this - that you "think" and "work mentally".
> Innovation comes from a lot of places, but mostly from the middle-class.
Intelligent people invent things. They may then use the patents of said invention/the company with rights to the invention in order to amass wealth.
> Capitalists just exploit the system.
A stock owner is a capitalist. Bill Gates is a stock owner. He is also an inventor. Ergo, capitalists also contribute to the system.
>>59400340
>still doesn't understand what a capitalist is
>worthless accusations...
>>59400324
>be borderline retarded
>enlist in army
>retire at 40
>make more than most college graduates
>>59400241
Yes you got me that is how I worship. Dear God, I am willingly exchanging my prayer for your grace. Please forgive my sins, and I will give you two more prayers in exchange.
>>59400370
>What do you suggest we worship
don't worship economic and political theories at all?
>>59400343
that exists. i can go do it right fucking now. the amish do it every god damn day. people don't do it because it sucks.
>>59400260
>Your equation capitalist=innovator is a laughable myth
>strawmanning this hard
I can sense your desperation.
I already refuted your claim regarding capitalists not contributing anything to society, and you have failed to provide a rational retort. When will you give up?
>>59400343
sure
except now there's no jobs because you realize your employer was paying fucktons of overhead for your work
the 'fruits of your labor' were built upon their establishment, their tools, their supplies, their customers, their advertisements, their PR department, their legal department, etc
>>59398911
It's not because he is an American, it's because he is an Apple-sheep.
>>59400408
>still cant understand the nature of the system
>>59399759
>there's a reason we dump so much money into our military
That reason being ensuring that American military-industrial complex doesn't go bust overnight. Basically corporate welfare, like the bank bailout during 2008 abd 2009.
>>59400390
did i hit a nerve
you're still doing it, criticism of the system is a criticism of you apparently
>>>/wsg/1083003
Why are Brasilians like this?
>>59400324
>nah
yah. Academic studies prove you wrong.
>i'll give you an example from our country
>one example refutes an empirically proven theory
>>59400425
You haven't refuted anything. All you do is say capitalists are good and the rest of the population is bad. Your worldview is retarded, and it will crumble sooner or later.
>>59400436
what system? i can go farm and reap only what i sow. or, i can work for someone else and reap some of what they sow. but them motherfuckers in the factory are sowing wifi and bagelbites, both of which are really fucking hard to make on my own.
>>59400406
>don't worship economic and political theories at all?
Live in fantasy land, then? A global thermonuclear war is the tool you need to achieve what you want. No people, no worship.
Well, it's not like things will change for the better anyway. Maybe within a few decades we'll go around collecting bottlecaps as currency, who knows.
>>59400483
>capitalism is not even a system
>we are just floating in PURE FREEDOM
It gets better and better...
>>59400473
>PROOFS?!!? ONE GUY ISN'T ENOUGH!!!!!11 NAME ME MILLIONS OF STUPID RICH PEOPLE RIGHT NOW HAHA I WIN COMMUNISTS BTFO
lmao why are you here
>>59400528
i never said that man. how exactly do we get to pure freedom? did Brazil do it and no one told me?
>>59400510
you're literally being hysterical right now
>>59400523
maybe. the guy with the most bottle caps will certainly be willing to give you some if you harvest his crops.
>>59400480
>You haven't refuted anything.
I did, long ago, and I'm not gonna bother linking it, since you'll just keep trolling.
> All you do is say capitalists are good and the rest of the population is bad.
No. I say that capitalists are shareholders in companies, and that they can also found said companies.
>Your worldview is retarded
And you base this conclusion on what? Your strawmen?
> and it will crumble sooner or later.
Go to bed, Mao. Your dumb communist utopia doesn't pan out in the real world. You're Brasilian, you should know this first hand.
>>59400587
>>59400473
How did said academic studies measure intelligence? You better not say fucking IQ testing
>>59400560
Well, first of all you have to look and see reality. On the one side, there are those who sell their labor. On the other, capitalists who "own" the system. Understand that these two groups have opposite interests. You have already freed your mind. It's a good start.
>>59400540
>strawmanning this hard
I repeat: IQ is a deciding factor for one's potential for success in life. This has been empirically proven to be true. This, however, does not rule out the possibility of exceptions to said rule.
Lately South Americans are coming off smug like they think they're Europeans and not jungle shitskins that practice voodoo and witch burning.
>>59400587
I'm fairly sure capitalism wouldn't hold up in a world where shooting eachother in the face for meager profit is everyday occurrence.
>>59400567
Your lack of basic understanding of the human psyche is alarming. Thinking that ideology and faith can be "removed" from society is pure delusion, to say the least.
>>59400588
>can't defend the existence of the capitalist class
>mixes it up with the concept of "inventor"
>hurr durr I proved capitalists are good guys
>>59400667
>IQ is a deciding factor for one's potential for success in life
haha holy fuck i'm laughing
>>59400633
>You better not say fucking IQ testing
>spot the sub-100 IQ person
IQ is a well-researched phenomena and IQ-tests accurately reveal the cognitive powers of the individual. This is why the armed forces in nearly every country use IQ-tests to weed out the retards from officer programs.
>>59400700
>Thinking that ideology and faith can be "removed" from society is pure delusion, to say the least.
i'm saying you don't need to sit here and take personal offense to me or the brazilian complaining about capitalism, and all yours posts give off this air of awe and admiration for the bootheel on your neck
don't worry buddy you're the shiniest cog of them all there's no need to impress me
>>59399633
Are we diffrent then?
>>59400713
>capitalist class
Buy stock. There, you are now part of the capitalist class.
>still repeating the "capitalists are good guys"-strawman
>>59400734
>haha holy fuck i'm laughing
You shouldn't be, considering how evident your own sub-average intelligence has become in these heated 4chan discussions.
>>59400783
How's that Aspergers treating you?
>>59400783
>believes capitalists are indispensable
>believes in IQ
>>59400787
>i'm saying you don't need to sit here and take personal offense to me or the brazilian complaining about capitalism
I take offense at your stupidity, and it doesn't relate to capitalism, but rather to your "faith-free society" daydreaming.
>>59400863
>I take offense at your stupidity, and it doesn't relate to capitalism, but rather to your "faith-free society" daydreaming.
>>59400844
>believes capitalists are indispensable
Suggest me an alternate economic system that could bear the load of modern consumerism. Can't come up with anything? See, there's your problem: all talk, no action.
>"believing" in IQ
>implying there is anything to "believe"
I won't be responding to you anymore. Have fun at the shit end of the bell curve, my ape friend.
>>59400837
It's always the same story. Defenders of capitalism always think they're part of some superior class of people (mention of IQ is common) who will benefit from the system. It is quite sad. These are the types who have a mental breakdown in their 50s and become mass shooters and fascists.
>I won't be responding to you anymore. Have fun at the shit end of the bell curve, my ape friend.
>>59400951
>Suggest me an alternate economic system
The exact one we have now, without the parasitic class living off other peoples labor. Businesses run by the workers themselves.
>>59400915
>accepting defeat by shitposting
I should have known better than to engage an Ausfailian on /int/.
>>59400955
>These are the types who have a mental breakdown in their 50s and become mass shooters and fascists.
As opposed to the poor, dumb and delusional pinkos like yourself, who are seemingly fascist and potential mass shooters from birth?
>I should have known better than to engage an Ausfailian on /int/.
>>59400998
>>59401038
Mate you've already proven how autisticly assravaged you are, no need for this sad attempt to save grace.
>>59398911
Gotta live the meme dream
>>59401043
Is this a picture of an Australian dingo knight?
>>59400996
>Businesses run by the workers themselves.
Why would a business owner give up control over his company to the idiots who lacked the creativity, drive and cognitive power required for creating a business?
PS. Your system was already tried twice on a large scale. The chinks practically abandoned it at an early stage of the "people's republic", whilst the Russians went down with their ship.
>>59401038
You talking about IQ, Bell Curve, the superiority of the capitalist class. Your inferiority complex is palpable.
>>59401092
kek the hat looks australian actually
okay i'm deleting that picture now
>>59401115
>idiots who lacked the creativity, drive and cognitive power required for creating a business?
I can see your inferiority complex materialize right in front of me. Not a joke. I'm looking at it right now, in my bedroom.
>>59400996
Some rich guy could just come by and buy the company from them. I mean, he would use his black magic capitalist power to force them into slavery.
>>59401115
So in your eyes, Capitalism has NO flaws, or doesn't have as many as Socialism?
>>59401284
Businesses would not be open to buying and selling. If the police, the justice system, the electoral system, so many things can be put outside the market, why can't we do the same thing with the institutions that control the economy?
>>59401121
>You talking about IQ, Bell Curve,
Only as a result of your shitposting.
>the superiority of the capitalist class.
Certain capitalists are superior. Most capitalists, however, are average people.
>>59401310
>So in your eyes, Capitalism has NO flaws, or doesn't have as many as Socialism?
Gee, what do you think?
>>59398911
American small business owner here OP
That person doesn't represent the people (who aren't wealthy or a dumb fuck) on the west coast at all.
Capitalism doesn't exist equally anymore. If you aren't wealthy to a certain level there's no hope of ever owning your own business (no financing unless you have perfect credit, prohibitive fees and regulations from local and fed gov., and rule #1 - people in business only do business with other business people, aka, it's who you know and you gotta have money to make money)
You can start a small business, but you'll have to work your ass off and be completely self sufficient for pretty much as long as you own it. And then if everything goes perfectly, you might save up a retirement, and you'll never have to answer to a boss.
Much like playing the lottery and stock market at the same time.
>>59401438
>If the police, the justice system, the electoral system, so many things can be put outside the market, why can't we do the same thing with the institutions that control the economy?
There is a company called Petrobas that did just that. It worked out great for everybody.
>>59401438
> If the police, the justice system, the electoral system, so many things can be put outside the market, why can't we do the same thing with the institutions that control the economy?
Because smart, creative people will no longer see any incentive in realizing their profitable/societally useful ideas if they are compensated like a thrashman.
>>59401438
One guy has food because he works at a farm. Some other fellows have almost nothing because they work at a failing factory. Even if the farmer thinks he could fix the factory, and the workers would rather have food than their stakes, they cannot sell because this would offend the gods of communism.
>>59401665
I know people born into money and they live different lives than any other American.
They literally do whatever they want regardless of the laws and pay massive amount to the courts, via dirty attorneys and DA's, to never even go to court or get charged (and they literally purchased themselves into being "Deputies" with a badge and everything. No one in the family is a real cop, they just donate a butt ton to the PD.)
They buy business using companies registered out of state and overseas and use them to gather financing from investors, which they then use to pay themselves literal hundred thousand dollar+ paychecks and party around the world for free. Then the (sham) business goes under and the overseas company goes bankrupt. They take their hoarded shekels and do it again. Seen this four times, twice personally as an employee.
It's rumored their money is kept overseas in Thailand and the Philippines to avoid taxes. Meanwhile they live in a MTV Cribs style mansion and own massive swaths of property all over CA, including multiple beach fronts for their kids who are my age.
Your going to laugh but they're high ranking Freemasons, which has nothing to do with anything but it's kinda creepy.
So yeah compare that to working 9 to 5 and being constantly mad dogged by police and the rich for being in their neighborhoods, or owning your own business and getting constantly mad dogged by police and the rich for being in their neighborhoods.
Not being able to own property, no real vacations, no medical/dental care because way too expensive, no community or culture unless you can buy it or fit in with those who can, beater cars, tons of gangs and homeless at night so pretty much stay home.
My parents didn't grow up like this. Its new, I think it started in the 80's
Fuck Merica right now.
>>59401679
If you think the state will always be corrupt, too bad. Putting everything in the hands of capitalists eliminates this problem, since they can fuck you in the ass without braking any law.
>>59401741
>implying people need an external incentive, or else they'll just vegetate.
Over and over again, the same slavish, misanthropic story. You people can't even imagine being free.
>>59401741
>implying I said anything about wage differences
>>59401820
And yet people will still believe that the American Dream is real. It's a sad state of affairs when being treated like glorified cattle is the most nationalistic thing you can do.
>>59401823
>If you think the state will always be corrupt, too bad.
People are greedy, selfish and corrupt. The state is a group of people. Ergo, you're a moron for failing to recognize the obvious.
> Putting everything in the hands of capitalists eliminates this problem, since they can fuck you in the ass without braking any law.
There is no capitalism without working-class and middle-class consumers. Capitalists rely on your support. The state, on the other hand, can literally fuck you in the ass and then execute you by firing squad if it feels threatened by you.
>>59402157
So we either serve the capitalists or we serve the state? The concept of freedom doesn't even exist in your mind, does it?
>>59402006
>Over and over again, the same slavish
I'm not a slav.
>misanthropic
What educated person isn't at least slightly misanthropic? Have you ever cracked open a history book, witnessing the rise and collapse of numerous crackpot-empires and other failed human ventures?
>You people can't even imagine being free.
I certainly am much more free than you are, politically, socially and economically speaking.
>>59402128
>And yet people will still believe that the American Dream is real.
The American Dream was - and still is - a 9-5 job, house in the suburbs, wife, kids, gun in the closet and vote in the pocket. You're asking for too much.
>>59401125
Yeah the hat made me think he was an Aussie
>>59402262
>So we either serve the capitalists or we serve the state?
We serve neither, by modeling our society in accordance with enlightenment ideals. Case in point: USA.
>The concept of freedom doesn't even exist in your mind, does it?
What are you suggesting? Anarchy?
>>59402308
>be misanthropic
>believe in the virtue and creativeness and progressiveness of the capitalist class
You're a misanthropist of the dumb type
>>59399235
>Implying that the iPhone is a good thing
USA is a country created by people who decided to take their ass to the new world to improve their lifes
it has created a cult around individualism, freedom and money
it's why they turned around on Russia when commies took over - it was ideologically incompatible
>>59402378
>enlightenment ideals. Case in point: USA.
TOP KEK. The whole American economy is based on state subsidy to high technology industry under the cover of military spending. All successful capitalist economies have always relied on the state, including the use of brute force against disobedient workers and conquered peoples.
>>59399395
Good slaves are made servile by religion or ideology that justifies the power of their masters.
>>59402410
>still regurgitating strawmen
First off, I've never claimed capitalism/capitalists to be virtuous. Secondly, I've never claimed that virtue, creativity or progressiveness is required to be a capitalist - owning stock is the common man's way to becoming a capitalist.
>>59402157
>59402044
It's a dual-edged sword that needs careful balancing.
You give away power to capitalists and soon they have enough to elect their own officials, like here in the US.
Then they use the officials to manipulate the markets with regulations (or the dangerous lack of regulations), taxes, financing etc.
Then you have a bunch of sick and poisoned consumers (tainted food, toxic leaks, workplace exposure, environmental toxins.. All with prohibitive healthcare costs) with financial instability that fall out of the consumer market, vetting it for the rich again.
Now you have market gaps between the rich and poor in all areas: the justice system, the education system, the dental/healthcare system etc.
All of this leads to a rise in costs that increases poverty and again sequesters the different private markets for the rich.
This is what is happening right now in America. Tavistock, Monsanto, Big Parma, Fracking, and mass incarceration to no end.
The big companies own us. They have already decided our lifespans will be shortened or ended to further their goal.
>>59402531
>TOP KEK. The whole American economy
>constitution and the bill of rights
>american economy
Not related.
>All successful capitalist economies have always relied on the state
Statelessness was never a central enlightenment ideal. You're confusing minimal governance with anarchy.
>>59399963
Venezuela is not socialist. I has never been.
>>59400406
Whoah, that's too complex for a /pol/tard. That would require recognizing and accepting the inherent uncertainty about the world humans have.
>>59401654
No need to be condescending to my question, but i digress. Here in America, most people are tired of the establishment, which should in theory unite them. The problem is, however, the reasons for why we are angry at the establishment, and who controls it. Anyone who understands American politics knows that most of the politicans are bought out by wealthy individuals, or companies so that they can push policies that benefit them. The system that is put in place here is basically Socialism for the rich. Wall Street was bailed out by guess who's money? The middle-class and the working-class. A complete Capitalist system cannot sustain itself because of how much of the burden is layed on these people, while the rich continue to receive benefits from them through the government. This will lead to unrest within the people, causing them to revolt.
>>59402603
Then you admit your defense of the existence of this social class is based on nothing.
>>59400588
>Your dumb communist utopia
> You're Brasilian,
Jesus you are stupid. Brazil is a capitalist utopia ruled by an unaccountable class of the rich.
>>59402673
Pure smokescreen. My point is that NO advanced capitalist state follows anything remotely like the Enlightenment model. State intervention is vital.
>there are people in this thread right now that believe Thomas Edison invented the lightbulb
>>59402308
>The American Dream was - and still is - a 9-5 job, house in the suburbs, wife, kids, gun in the closet
That doesn't sound like the dream of a Capitalist.
Sounds like the dream of a Communist party worker.
Even my father started his own business with nothing and made over a million in his second year back in the 80's. Imfuckingpossible today. One auto accident in the 90's we lost everything, including our house.
> vote in the pocket.
Our votes don't count. At all. It's an illusion to keep people from freaking the fuck out, because big business, super-pacs and the ultra wealthy control every facet of life.
>>59402689
> Anyone who understands American politics knows that most of the politicans are bought out by wealthy individuals, or companies so that they can push policies that benefit them.
This is the case in every single country on this earth. American exceptionalism does not include lobbying.
>A complete Capitalist system cannot sustain itself because of how much of the burden is layed on these people, while the rich continue to receive benefits from them through the government
Are people protesting en masse against the relatively low American tax burden?
>This will lead to unrest within the people, causing them to revolt.
Modern society is very forgiving to the individual; it makes us passive and complacent, content with what we have. The true extent of "socialism for the rich" is such a difficult phenomenon to grasp - with all the legal hurdles and endless loopholes surrounding it-, that average joe won't fight it any time soon. The risks outweight the benefits.
>>59402707
>still regurgitating the "social class" meme
Buy stock. Congratulations, you are now literally a capitalist.
>>59402741
>Brazil is a capitalist utopia ruled by an unaccountable class of the rich.
It is disguised as a socialist paradise. Hence my use of the words "communist utopia".
>>59402689
Fucking preach.
Socialism for the rich
Communism for the poor
>>59402966
>Are people protesting en masse against the relatively low American tax burden?
No, they're too busy fighting imaginary "socialists" because the can't understand what their class interest is. It's "the people" (including workers and capitalists) against "the state". Quite surreal.
>>59402829
> My point is that NO advanced capitalist state follows anything remotely like the Enlightenment model.
The American Constitution and Bill of Rights is the embodiment of Enlightenment ideals. Check mate.
>State intervention is vital.
You are dumb as a brick. "Enlightenment ideals" does not translate to "statelessness", "lack of state intervention" or "anarchy".
>>59403021
>denies the existence of social class
>can't even begin to imagine how the world works
>>59399395
>>59399614
>>59402930
>Sounds like the dream of a Communist party worker.
The communist party worker owns neither a house nor a gun.
>One auto accident in the 90's we lost everything, including our house.
You can thank your dumbfuck uninsured father for that.
>Our votes don't count. At all. It's an illusion to keep people from freaking the fuck out
The illusion is part of the package.
> because big business, super-pacs and the ultra wealthy control every facet of life.
No, they don't, and you can thank federalism - including strong constitutionalist ideals - for that. Call me when "big business" takes away your bill of rights.
>>59403075
>"Enlightenment ideals" does not translate to "statelessness", "lack of state intervention" or "anarchy".
Enlightenment ideals translate into low state intervention. I'm saying the state intervention is much, much higher. You're pretending to be retarded because you know the "free market" is a fraud.
>>59403054
America has been very successful in dividing the people.
A good example is the Trump vs Bernie Parties. They both claim to "hate The Man,'' yet the two Parties would gladly kill each other with fire.
>>59403054
>No, they're too busy fighting imaginary "socialists" because the can't understand what their class interest is.
Their class interest is having a stable income and stable political environment.
>It's "the people" (including workers and capitalists) against "the state". Quite surreal.
It's only "surreal" in the minds of feeble-minded bootlickers like yourself, who fail to understand what unchecked state power inevitabily leads to.
>>59403275
>unchecked state power inevitabily leads to
What does it lead to? Proper social structures? If people are so able to vote for the person they want in power, they could just vote them away, right?
> having a stable income
Exactly. There can be no other interests. It's worse than living off the land (not an option unless you're rich enough to own land), because you can't improve your situation with hard work. It's really like being livestock for the rich.
>>59403275
You don't even recognize the existence of social classes. You said we can't live without the creativity of capitalists. You talk about Enlightenment values, and then refuses to acknowledge the massive state intervention that is the norm in advanced capitalist societies, which goes completely against it. You're a moron. You don't have the foggiest idea about what's happening in the world. You can talk about IQ, bell curve, etc., it doesn't change the fact that you're an idiot. Keep believing in the system and doing propaganda work for free in the name of your masters, dipshit.
>>59403187
>Enlightenment ideals translate into low state intervention. I'm saying the state intervention is much, much higher.
American taxes are very low in comparison to the OECD average. Furthermore, state intervention is not only measured in terms of taxation, but also through measuring individual liberty. Do you have a right to keep and bear arms? Do you have a right to freely assemble, speak, write and worship nearly anything you want? Is your home protected by a magna-carta esque statute prohibiting arbitrary search and seizure of property or person? What about quartering of soldiers in your home, is that restricted in any way in your country? Are property rights respected in your country?
tl;dr: money isn't everything.
>>59403448
>What does it lead to?
Violent despots grabbing power.
> If people are so able to vote for the person they want in power, they could just vote them away, right?
Wrong, and that's why the right to keep and bear arms is invaluable.
> It's worse than living off the land (not an option unless you're rich enough to own land), because you can't improve your situation with hard work.
No amount of political intervention will turn "hard work" into a valuable commodity. Intelligent, thoughtful work has always been, and will always be, the most valuable of commodities.
>It's really like being livestock for the rich.
Many American blue-collar workers earn decent salaries. Choosing to spend hard earned cash on mindless consumer goods, instead of investing it, is a personal choice.
To be honest, I prefer the Nexus to the iPhone.
I want to use microSD.
>>59402966
>This is the case in every single country on this earth. American exceptionalism does not include lobbying.
Correct. My point was how it shouldn't be allowed in the first place, in terms of bribing politicans, and them being involved in lobbyist activity.
>Are people protesting en masse against the relatively low American tax burden?
Not necessarily on our tax burden, but to what our tax money is being used for. My main example would be the government bailing out Wall Street using the people's tax money.
>Modern society is very forgiving to the individual; it makes us passive and complacent, content with what we have. The true extent of "socialism for the rich" is such a difficult phenomenon to grasp - with all the legal hurdles and endless loopholes surrounding it-, that average joe won't fight it any time soon. The risks outweight the benefits.
Very true. Only now have people finally woken up because of Sanders and Trump (to an extent) calling the establishment out on their bias. After this election cycle, it is up to the people what kind of government they want to push for, starting from the bottom up.
>>59403493
>You said we can't live without the creativity of capitalists.
False. I said that we can't live without the creativity of creative people - them usually turning into capitalists, who enjoy the fruits of their creative ingenuity, is merely a by-product of their ambition and drive.
>You talk about Enlightenment values, and then refuses to acknowledge the massive state intervention that is the norm in advanced capitalist societies, which goes completely against it.
I'm not talking about "advanced capitalist societies", you illiterate favela-dweller. I've continuously referred specifically to the USA as a bastion of enlightenment values.
> Keep believing in the system and doing propaganda work for free in the name of your masters, dipshit.
Meanwhile, you'll vote for Roussef and anyone else who can provide "free stuff" and "improved conditions for the workers".
My choice is smarter.
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>>59403901
YO
>>59403945
Jesus fucking christ I knew Finngols were self-absorbed deluded aspies but you take the cake.
>>59403819
>Violent despots grabbing power.
Get with the times. Why would a economically viable country, let alone the worlds superpower, turn suddenly into despots killing for power? Not realistic.
Didn't happen in Netherlands under Socialism. They're like the happiest, healthiest and longest lived people on the planet.
>Wrong, and that's why the right to keep and bear arms is invaluable.
Agreed, but you're acting like America will go Nazi on its people for political reasons. That would never happen.
It might happen over a 'workers revolution' when people stand up to the corporations that own the police and prisons.
>No amount of political intervention will turn "hard work" into a valuable commodity.
Your splitting hairs. It's not hard work to be intelligent and thoughtful? What about people who are unable to get a proper education because the government doesn't provide one for the poor? Just get intelligent somehow or get fucked?
>Many American blue-collar workers earn decent salaries.
Nice try Mr Finland. Wages mean shit when you give 90% back to the capitalist "economy" to stay in house and home. Never mind trying to raise children anywhere that isn't a shit hole. Consumer goods are for the rich consumers, unless you consider food a consumer good.
>>59403945
>creative people - them usually turning into capitalists
Yeah the starving artists are running Big Business in America, everyone knows that.
> USA as a bastion of enlightenment values.
Mass incarceration, widespread corruption, civil collapse, a police state, big Pharma, rigged finance market, the fucking credit system, need I continue?
>My choice is smarter.
You didn't make a choice, you're just happy with the people in powers choice.
You're lucky good people have stood up to corruption, but they won't live forever, and who'll catch the world when Atlas dies?
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