>why
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>why
>>58168243
slav languages have even more
enumerating the possible cases yields an even greater list:
https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naamval
>>58168243
Because between the time of the Beowulf poet and the Norman Conquest, conjugation was slowly eroded from English.
German needs all those 'the's because they conjugate words rather than deriving details of meaning from word order or modifiers.
>>58168243
Because German is a disgusting Germanic language and English a sexy Latin language.
>>58168243
>his language has articles
barbarian language
> Grammatical gender
Why
It's so inefficient
>>58169007
its retarded as fuck
>>58168395
Scandinavian languages also conjugate words and we don't have anywhere near as many definite articles as German.
>>58168935
Latin languages have genders.
>>58169007
>Inefficient
Orwell is probably spinning in his grave. Dumbing down a language and making it more simple makes it easier to control the population and harder to express oneself.
>>58169166
Mămăligă pls
>>58169007
>Australian
>doesn't even know a chair is male and a door female
>topkek
>>58169166
Orwell's theory of "controling" a population through language have been disprouved - it was the strong form of the Sapir-Whorf analysis, and it was utter bollocks.
His point on how it's dumbing down a language makes it void of sense and how a lot of big words are used to mask the emprtyness of speech is still stands.
>>58169316
>implying you have to know german to know that you want to fuck doors
>>58168935
That isn't true though
>>58169316
Gender is not the same as sex. Call it a 'noun class' if you prefer, it means that nouns are grouped into those classes and nouns in the same class follow the same rules.
Some languages like Spanish, Swedish, French or Catalan have two noun classes, some others like German or Norwegian have three, some like Polish have five. In Africa you can find languages with dozens of noun classes, I believe Swahili is one of them.
Now, for grammarians it has traditionally been easier to assign the names 'masculine' and 'feminine' to noun classes because, in general, you can take the word for "man" is in one group and the word for "woman" is in the other one. In Spanish or French, it doesn't mean chairs will get pregnant, it means the word for "chair" follows the same rules as the word for "woman".
>>58169720
Don't try to talk linguistics on /int/, you would waste your time.
>>58169161
>germanic language
>no neuter
shame.
>>58168935
To know weather or not a language is latin, you have to ask yourself if it derives from Sermo Vulgaris, or common speech of the late roman empire.
English does not.
>Spanish El
>Arabic Al
Why
>>58170031
>shame
There are some remnants of it. Why do you think it's a shame, it's just a nuisance really.
>>58169547
>how a lot of big words are used to mask the emprtyness of speech is still stands.
I don't know how true this is in other languages, but it's especially prevalent in English due to our long history of importing big words from other languages
>>58168243
>Dutch
>dededededede
>>58170370
Believe me, it's true in French, called langue-de-bois ("wooden tongue"). Less prevalent nowadays, since populism has replaced it. Populism is worse than big words to me, because it relies on our feelings and primal instincts, while the other is just pretending to be smart.
>>58168935
>English a sexy Latin language
English is basically bastardized French forced on anglo-saxon peasants.
>>58169777
I'm not going to let you ruin my healthy relationship with my chair.
>>58170586
Absolument choux croute.
>>58171140
Le Latin English meme.
Pierre, English has nothing in commun with latin and we both know it.
>>58171140
>frenchie trying to ascribe french qualities on the english because they can't stand losing to them or the germans
>>58168243
Do you think it cases help German sound angrier? Is the lack of cases in fact that missing 'Hitler component' that causes Dutch and English not to sound like some 14th century formal address to the troops before the battle?
Will we ever know from whence the pervasive shoutiness and barkiness of German?
It's fun finding cognates and interesting connections between German and English.
>Hagel=hail
>Nagel=nail
>Sagel=sail (I think, might be Segel or something)
Linguistics is fun
>>58171340
>common
>meme
Latin roots
>>58168243
get on my level
>>58168243
Is English the most streamlined and easy to learn language? It sure seems that way. It's like English is metric and all the others are imperial.
>>58171418
>ascribe
>french
>germans
>try
Franco/latin roots
>>58171140
But that 26% constitutes the vast majority of everyday speech, as well as virtually all of our grammar and pronunciation.
Most of that Latin and French goes to proper words that are pretty much never use: all science terms, most academic terms, etc. Hell, just look at what I just typed: I didn't even think about how I wrote this, and it's probably still mostly Germanic.
>>58171140
>fill dictionary with words no one uses outside of specialized field
>ENGLISH IS LATIN
>>58171418
>losing to them
>brits
>>58171576
Only difference between that and German is that plurals have genders in Greek, you don't even have a dative.
>>58171591
this is just a guess but im estimating that
>constitutes
>majority
>grammar
>pronunciation
>proper maybe
>science
>academic
>typed
are all latin
>>58171576
>Greek language went dead in 1400
>Aegeans spoke Albanian in between
>suddenly speak modified artificial Greek in 1890's
>>58171591
>constitutes
>majority
>prononciation
>virtually
>grammar
>proper
>vast
>academic
>use
>probably
Wew lad, all these words are from franco latin roots...
>le français dans l'anglais est un meme Pierre !
Mon Dieu...
>>58169007
They must have had a good reason for it. Women get their own underwear. Why should they get to use our male words for things? Give them their own version of words too.
>>58171587
What matters is the core of the language, which in the case of English is decisively Germanic, not the additional fluff on top.
The more I speak english, the more I appreciate this language.
>>58171785
>>58171766
So then the rest of the words, the MAJORITY, are Germanic.
Also, English speakers can understand Frisian much better than they can understand French or Latin, no matter which dialects you choose from.
>that one french autist that can't get over the fact that English is germanic
>>58171839
not disagreeing just telling you that everyday english is more latin than you expect
how does your language solve this problem anons?
>>58171860
English is very Latin, I know. I'm just saying it's moreso Germanic.
>>58171576
:^)
>>58171884
Feminists have coined "iel", but it's hideous.
I don't really think there is a way that works naturally in French.
>>58171418
the real kicker is that even if french and english were so related, it would only be more mystifying as to why the french suck so bad at speaking it.
>>58171905
That's true.
However, among germanic languages, I wonder if it's not the old nordic languages that influenced english the most.
english is celtic
>>58171884
>Tumblrism colliding with potatonig-speak revival
What a freak show.
>>58171884
muh pronouns are ur, ma and fukt
>>58171945
Why are French feminists seemingly the worst in the world? Femen are a bunch of absolute cunts, they seem more extreme than other countries feminists.
>>58171852
Because it's scientifically not true. Get your fact straights.
>>58171884
>being misgendered
sometimes I wish war would actually come and set everyones priorities back in the right position.
>>58169316
>a chair is male
no it's not
>>58172097
Femen started in Ukraine actually, they are basically refugees in France.
>>58168243
English have genders and cases?
>>58172097
Because it's 2016
>>58172110
>being this butthurt
>>58172026
I'm writing my dissertation on that 2bh.
To put it super short, Old Norse influenced the Germanic kingdoms sporadically, leaving strong vocabulary influence but leaving most grammar to the Frisian and Angle influence.
>>58171930
>>58172097
>Femen
>not Ukrainian
>>58171930
>not being able to tell articles from pronouns
>>58172110
>Because it's scientifically not true.
Wh-what? I know the languages sound very different but Germanic languages use almost identical structure. Kinda of like how the romance languages are structured similarly while sounding different.
>>58172150
That sounds so interesting I am surprised to talk about it on 4chan.
>mfw Death is feminine in french
>representations of death usually depict feminine traits
>mfw Death is masculine in german
>vice versa
>mfw English is gender-neutral
>they'll most likely die of the SJW reaper
>>58172178
bonies are bannable outside of /mlp/ please delete this
>>58168305
We do?
>>58172211
russian is easy
compared to Czech and Polish
>>58172179
The German word order used in English would sound like something from Chaucer to the average Englishman desu.
>>58171884
Recently the singular "they" was made official, and also the Websters word of the year. I don't know what Oxford (praise be upon it) has to day about the matter.
They say it should be accepted since it's been used since Shakespeare, but Shakespear also said "fumbly wumbly in miene eye" and shit so he's not the most well-educated man around.
Also, it's never been used to describe someone whose gender you KNOW. I'm okay with transgenderism, it's a mental disorder that they can't change and they need help from psychologist. But probably 70-90% of "non-binary" people are just special snowflakes who know they're a man, but want to have something that makes them part of some oppressed group on the fringe of society. Every time these people force their pronoun shit on me I swear I want to bash their fucking skulls in.
>>58171418
And here, you can see a Swedish male doing Swedish things : blowjobs
>>58172161
>>58172211
unless I'm missing something, that looks pretty simple
>>58170289
Spanish el is derived from Latin just like the French la and the Italian il
>>58172110
I'm pinning thread to see more butthurt.
>>58172340
>so mad he can't even muster german tier ""banter""
>>58172263
It's still very similar. Especially to how English used to be spoken. I know things are a bit different now but the word order was once exactly the same. Kinda like how Yoda from Star Wars talks.
>>58172217
Slovene also uses the determiner this as the definite article informally:
the old man, old boy = ta star
the daughter of the house = ta mlada
the smart one of the group = ta pameten
etc.
>>58171576
>When Greece finally won its freedom in 1830 a new kingdom was formed with Athens and the Peloponnese at its core. The dialects spoken in these regions became the basis for the standard spoken language of today's Greek society. This standard was not formed directly from the folk songs and poetry of earlier peasant society, however. A purified, katharevusa (Καθαρεύουσα) form of Greek was devised. Efforts to impose it were heavily influenced by the old Atticism
How many languages have to "purify" itself? German maintained its articles naturally. Greeks had to go back 1,400 years for a new model of the Greek language.
>>58172192
Linguistics is always interesting m8
>>58172818
I love learning about linguistics.
I've read that one fundamental axiom is that all languages are equal in descriptive capacity. Is it true to you ?
>noun declensions
What year is it again?
Seriously, get with the times, rest of the world.
>>58171884
Fortunately, we don't need to
>>58168243
>why english will be the language of the world
because other major languages are disgustingly inefficient.
>>58172110
No do you not understand the difference between vocabulary and grammar?
>>58173278
Without declensions we wouldn't have " 's"
Free word order is dope also.
>>58169316
fuck off cis scum how do you know what the door identifies as
>>58168984
Absolutely, my altaic speaking friend
>>58172161
>masculine declension
When will this meme end? There's no straight connection between the gender of a word and its declension in Russian. Even though the words "man" and "women" belong to different gender groups, they're still declined the same way, because both of them are in the first declension.
>>58168243
We don't have any cases either.
>>58168243
How about how sie could mean all of She, You and They at same time. Ihr could could mean you, hers, theirs, yours and to her in dative case.
>>58174138
мyжчинa still takes masculine adjectives though
anyone majoring in linguistics itt? i have a few questions
>>58174138
There is always exceptions you dumb fuck.
>>58171818
same with me and french desu
>>58171513
German: Ross
English: horse
>>58174803
Wait I thought horse was Pferd?
>>58169316
>a chair is male
Nope.
>>58173690
I don't choose my language based on efficiency.
>>58175045
It's both.
Ross sounds a bit more archaic/poetic though.
>>58173102
>all languages are equal in descriptive capacity
how can anyone believe such poppycock
>>58173772
This, thank god.
A lot of english words have french origins but the way english grammar works is more similar to germanic languages.
>>58175045
True. But "Ross" is the older, the Germanic word for it. And it influenced the English word.
>>58169316
Why can't you let the chairs and doors decide for themselves how they want to identify. Check your cis privilege.
>>58175308
>french origins
When will this meme die. It came from Norman.
>>58173894
>actually believing the greater altaic theory
>>58175437
>It came from Norman.
Linguistic student here u bakas. English did borrow a lot from latin however it is mostly words. the grammatic structure isn't that related.
>>58175691
Norman was a half sister language of French.
Spanish and Italian are cousins.
>>58175756
It was an oil language, it's that simple
>>58168243
its unbelievable how much english has been dumbed down, if you pick up a english book from the 15th century you're pretty much looking at a diferent language
>>58175833
>they were all vulgar latin it's that simple
>>58175901
English is for stupid niggers, German is for the intellectual man.
>>58175901
15th century English was already fairly dumbed down. You'd have to roll back a few more centuries to see a proper case system and verb declension.
>>58175931
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langues_d%27o%C3%AFl
There was no french as we know it today back then, there were several local dialects of langue d'oil
>>58173102
Yes and to all linguists
>>58175901
>its unbelievable how much english has been dumbed down
I look at Scandinavian languages and think the same thing. Compare Danish to Icelandic. German influence had a profound effect.
>if you pick up a english book from the 15th century
Chaucer? Middle English is still readable. You must be thinking of Old English.
>>58176135
There was no French back then but you say Norman was French. You're a fucking moron.
>>58175901
It's easy to call it "dumbed down", but really it's just changed over time.
The case system has (almost) entirely been lost in modern English and verb conjugation is now much simpler, but on the other hand, Old English had fewer tenses than modern English, lacked a distinction between the continuous/progressive aspect, had a smaller vobaculary and (it's believed) fewer phonemes than modern English.
>>58175749
where do you study?
>>58176135
This should make it clearer for you.
dumbass.
>>58176732
That diagram is ugly as well as untrue
>>58176772
Canadian shitposting, just as usual.
How does it feel using the two most stupid languages on the world?
>>58176621
Effort to revive the case system and fix the orthography when? Cases are fun and spelling is a huge pain in the ass
>>58176950
>revive the case system and fix the orthography
Just learn German
>>58175977
is this post from a century ago?
>>58176832
I'm not canadian, tho. I'm Québécois.
>>58175977
Soon enough, German will be a language for niggers too.
>>58169316
>German
>Doesn't even know a chair is female
The problem with German is they don't have gender specific endings, only arbitrary gender specific articles you pretty much need to memorize.
>>58168243
Weil wir sind intelligent und kann verstehen es, mein Fruend.
Auch, ich weiB dass du lesen Deutsch .
>>58180640
*because Dutch is basically German for mouthbreathers
>>58171524
>Latin roots
This is like saying Spanish is an Arabic language because it borrowed some words.
>>58168243
to make it harder for the foreign hordes
>>58171591
>>58171140
It's really a mixed bag, but I found it much easier to learn German than I did to learn French.
>>58178382
>Just learn German
The German case system is currently collapsing, though. We're at the point where English was a few centuries ago.
>>58183604
Why?
>>58184659
1. Some phonetic process makes the endings of two cases sound the same
2. People unconsciously start using a preposition instead
3. The case becomes useless and merges with the other one
>>58171513
There seems to be a connection between English o and Norwegian ei
>stein=stone
>reip=rope
>bein=bone
>nei=no
>skein=shone
>>58183604
It's sad to hear that German is getting dumbed down.
>>58186612
>dumbed down
Why are people impressed by cases so much? It's just a bunch of meaningless irregularities
>>58168935
English is Germanic to its core. Sure, our academic vocab from Latin and Greek, and our artistic vocab is from archaic French, but our pronunciation, grammar, and daily vocab are basically ripped from Dutch.
>study at the gymnasium
>have private english tuition as a child
>have an english nanny
>spend a year of my undergraduate degree in england
>do my MSc in England
>speak English at least once a day
I still don't feel as if I've mastered it though. I don't think I ever will.
>>58190643
From what I've read, it's a bitch of a language to learn.
>>58190643
>I still don't feel as if I've mastered it though.
Then you are retarded.
Also what we call "Gymnasium" is "grammar school" in English, "gymnasium" means "Turnhalle".
>>58168243
English is the simplest language in the world, even Americans can master a simplified version of it.
>>58190810
Everyone on the internet claims it's easy because they tend to have above average written English. Their speaking isn't good, however.
Speaking is another matter entirely, as is appreciating nuances. I could muddle through any English book but I wouldn't appreciate anything high end. My spoken English is sufficient but it's certainly weaker than my written English. There simply isn't a way to get above a certain level unless you are constantly around native speakers in their environment.
Others will disagree but that's the experience I've had. Hard language to learn, made easier by the sheer amount of exposure you have to it in its written form.
>>58180473
I've been waiting for one of you lurking Lietuva bros to comment. I spent 5 months in a Lithuanian A1 class at university. What a beautifully structured language. Hard as fuck that makes Russian easy like English.
>>58183604
Of course the German cases are failing now after I learned the language.
>>58190873
I can count on one hand the none native speakers I have met who have a truly fluent level of spoken English.
You aren't nearly as good as you think you are.
>>58169316
Does this mean that every time I put a spoon in my mouth I'm sucking dick?
Germany is a strange land.
>>58191012
so take a trip to england or the US for a few months, that'll learn ya
>>58184659
The genitive case is falling out of usage (it doesn't exist any more in nearly all dialects). Nominative and accusative can only be told apart in very special situations (masculine singular nouns), in other situations you have to use word order to convey the meaning, compare:
>Der Mann sieht den Jungen.
The man (nominative) sees the boy (accusative).
>Den Jungen sieht der Mann.
Same meaning, only different emphasis.
>Der Junge sieht den Mann.
The boy sees the man.
>Die Frau sieht das Mädchen.
The woman sees the girl.
>Das Mädchen sieht die Frau.
The girl sees the woman.
The nominative and accusative forms of "die Frau" and "das Mädchen" are the same, so word order effectively changes the meaning.
Southwestern dialects have given up on the difference between nominative and accusative, nothern (Low German) have merged dative and accusative.
We already kind of have a strict word oder in some situations because cases don't suffice. It's a question of time until the case system will be completely dropped.
>>58190897
kek
>>58191012
You mean like every other language?
>>58190873
he literally went to a Gymnasium in the Euro sense and made that clear in the context.
English-speakers don't care if you use words with their local meaning as long as you contextualise the difference between meanings.
>>58168935
>>58171140
>>58172110
>>58172340
>>58175691
>>58191438
>The genitive case is falling out of usage (it doesn't exist any more in nearly all dialects)
Is this just in spoken language, or have Germans stopped using the genetive case in writing too?
I mean, a lot of French verbs sound identical in speech (parle, parles, parlent are all sound identical, for example) but it wouldn't make sense at all for them to merge into a single word in writing.
>>58190810
>>58191012
Hard relative to what? What's an easier language to learn? Conlangs don't count obviously.
English is probably the easiest language for someone with an Indo-European linguistic background, even if it's still difficult to totally master. Learning any language to a high level is a huge investment.
>>58191747
>The French are a Germanic people
>English is a Romance language
Every Frenchman on /int/, always. Also:
>Alemannic and German are two completely different things
>We're calling Germans Allemands though
>>58171140
English has french words incorporated by norman frenchies. Which is basically french with scandinavian words
>>58191951
Mainly in spoken language. But there are situations where it's not possible to use the genitive and you have to fallback to the dative, even in written language (genitive plural with indefinite article and no further attribute, such as an adjective or similar). Stupid example:
The acceleration of red cars:
> Die Beschleunigung roter Autos.
"roter Autos" is genitive. We need the adjective "roter" to indicate the genitive.
The acceleration of cars:
> Die Beschleunigung von Autos.
There is no adjective here, so we need to replace the genitive with "von" + dative. Just leaving out the "roter" from the first example would not work here.
I know it's a stupid example but it shows there are faults in the German case system that are ultimately going to be fixed by dropping the case system altogether.
>>58191105
>You aren't nearly as good as you think you are.
I never claimed to be, the post wasn't about me though.
>>58191643
I'm actually surprised English speakers know what a Gymnasium is.
>>58168243
DIE DAS DER DEN, I SMELL THE BLOOD OF ENGLISHMEN
>>58191012
>Everyone on the internet claims it's easy
Compared to almost any other major language it IS though.
Do you honestly believe English is harder to learn (for a Westener) than French/German/Russian etc.?
>>58192859
I don't think that rhymes.
>>58192859
kek'd hard
>>58192425
Hmm... We just leave the noun as it is in such situations. It's supposed to be deduced from the context.
>>58193018
it works if you change it to englishmane
>>58191438
>The genitive case is falling out of usage
Bavarian detected
>>58192425
But the reason why this happens is because of the almost total lack of case distinctions in bare plural nouns, aside from the dative 'n'. This seems like a very specific problem. And the dative is bulkier in many case than the genitive. I still don't really understand why germans have such a hate boner for the latter in favor of the former, not that I'm an expert or anything.
I laugh at these indo-european bullshit language rules
>>58194013
>agglutinative languages
>having verbs a mile long
>>58194336
>non agglunative languages
>having to use 500 words to form a simple sentence
>>58194603
Well, wecanstopusingspacestoo, but what's the point of it? Long words are just uncomfortable to read
>>58196370
That's not how it works, your weak indo european mind cannot comprehend our superior languages
>>58194603
>agglunative languages are great because you can squish everything into one word!
>wouldn't it be better if "the state of being unable to describe nuclear reactor fission controllers" was one word?
>>58193991
It is a very specific problem. I just wanted to point out that also in written language the genitive sometimes has to be replaced by the dative. It's not often, but it happens.
I don't really know *why* the genitive has such a bad "reputation" in spoken German, I only know it does.
>>58196441
How can they be superior if they're just simplified synthetic languages?
nice arguments
>>58194603
get on my level losers
>>58198009
what do you say for "you guys" and "they" when it's a mixed-gender group?
>kekmate
>>58194603
>Finnish language
>If you interrupt someone mid-word you completely change what they say and can make them look retarded
>>58199317
Atem and hem
If there's at least one man in the group, you use the masculine plural form.
>>58168243
>got no "definite articles" bullshit
>got no he/she/it cancer
feels ok
>>58198009
pff
>>58201436
jesus christ what is this tumblr tier number of pronouns
>>58201436
>>58169547
>Sapir-Whorf analysis
> Disproved
Tip-Top kek lad. It's still relevant today, and is a legitimate idea.
My missus is Lithuanian and her spoke English is pretty good, though I do slow down slightly for her, when it's just my friends and I talking at full speed she has no idea what's going on, plus when she gets word orders wrong I find it pretty funny, still makes sense it just sounds wrong
