I think interest rates should be illegal.
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I think interest rates should be illegal.
Why? Don't take out loans you can't afford fucking idiot
Interest rates = literal Jewry.
I don't get the point of interest rates. Why do they exist?
>>58057045
>>58057024
Because we promised to pay interest and now we're in millions of debt.
Plus, you can't give interest and the debt back when the money doesn't exist.
With usura hath no man a house of good stone
each block cut smooth and well fitting
that design might cover their face,
with usura
hath no man a painted paradise on his church wall
harpes et luz
or where virgin receiveth message
and halo projects from incision,
with usura
seeth no man Gonzaga his heirs and his concubines
no picture is made to endure nor to live with
but it is made to sell and sell quickly
with usura, sin against nature,
is thy bread ever more of stale rags
is thy bread dry as paper,
with no mountain wheat, no strong flour
with usura the line grows thick
with usura is no clear demarcation
and no man can find site for his dwelling.
Stonecutter is kept from his tone
weaver is kept from his loom
WITH USURA
wool comes not to market
sheep bringeth no gain with usura
Usura is a murrain, usura
blunteth the needle in the maid’s hand
and stoppeth the spinner’s cunning. Pietro Lombardo
came not by usura
Duccio came not by usura
nor Pier della Francesca; Zuan Bellin’ not by usura
nor was ‘La Calunnia’ painted.
Came not by usura Angelico; came not Ambrogio Praedis,
Came no church of cut stone signed: Adamo me fecit.
Not by usura St. Trophime
Not by usura Saint Hilaire,
Usura rusteth the chisel
It rusteth the craft and the craftsman
It gnaweth the thread in the loom
None learneth to weave gold in her pattern;
Azure hath a canker by usura; cramoisi is unbroidered
Emerald findeth no Memling
Usura slayeth the child in the womb
It stayeth the young man’s courting
It hath brought palsey to bed, lyeth
between the young bride and her bridegroom
CONTRA NATURAM
They have brought whores for Eleusis
Corpses are set to banquet
at behest of usura.
-E. Pound
>>58057045
so that money lenders can make money.
If you don't like it, just don't do it, that's the proper capitalist way.
>>58057045
>I don't get the point of interest rates. Why do they exist?
Because people don't want to give out money for free? Jesus learn about the time value of money
capitalism should be illegal
>>58057045
Because how else will the banks make money? Christ you people are thick. There's a reason these things exist.
>>58057124
>capitalism should be illegal
This. Vote for Bernie he'll make everything free.
>>58057024
I'm not taking a loan. It's like that story about the builder, the logger, the fisher (I think) and the farmer? Anyways, there was a bunch of people. They wanted to repay each other so they prayed for a banker. The banker came and gave them money for their work but he said they had to repay him plus interest. So he gave them like 25, 25, 25, 25 each and then one guy was like wait, how are we going to repay him interest if we only have 100 dollars? They knew the banker had a treasure chest of gold that he guards that has money. So they planned on stealing from him just to repay, but when they opened the chest, nothing was in it and they killed the banker because they realized he jewed them or something and he was just a con-artist.
Anyways, it's some really old internet comic.
>>58057068
XD Palestinian tv
Where else
>lend money without interest rates
>1% don't pay their debts every year
>perpetually lose money because there will always be people who don't pay their debts
>have a way to make money
>do the same as above
>you get your way of making money and the money lending that makes you lose money
>logic would have you stop lending money
You can't escape, even without Jews it would end in jewing.
dumb blinikotposter
>>58057201
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HN3qR2H4jGY
Pretty accurate though.
>>58057141
Why do banks need to make money? They're not business, they don't sell products, they don't make anything.
>>58057102
It's not giving money out for free. It's a deal.
>time value of money
Money doesn't become more valuable as time goes on
>>58057240
Because if they don't make money they don't exist. The people who work/own the bank need to get paid. Why would you do a job for society if you get nothing in return?
>>58057240
>Money doesn't become more valuable as time goes on
It usually becomes less valuable due to inflation.
>>58057231
Oh god that gave me a good laugh.
Especially funny hearing the new speaking in perfect Levant arabic.
Excellent Jewish cosplay too. Legit looked like a jew
>>58057045
the only legitimate reason to have interest bearing loans is to buy property.
You see the problem is that if you have to buy a home in straight cash almost no one would be able to afford it. Who has $100-500k just lying around? probably at most the top 10% of the population.
That is why mortgages are necessary to extend home ownership to a larger class of people. But the problem is you can't just expect a company to loan someone money over 10-30 years and not receive any compensation for the risk they are taking on. After all, if the customer defaults it's on the bank to pay the rest of the mortgage. It only makes sense that the banks should receive some, but not exorbitant, amount of interest on mortgages, so that they can use that interest money to pay off the defaulted mortages of the shitty customers.
You might say, why not just make the rules so that shitty unreliable people can't get mortgages. The problem with that is that over the span of 10+ years a lot can happen in someone's life. Someone who seems like an excellent customer at first could many years down the line lose their job or blow their brains out or god knows what. you can't predict that. So at the risk of making the rules so strict that almost no one qualifies, you have to have it somewhat flexible.
That is the only situation where interest bearing loans are both necessary and a good thing.
>>58057240
Money becomes less valuable as time goes on you fucking retard. That's the point.
>>58057450
Very intresting. Never looked into it since it seemed to complicated. Appreciate you simplifying it
>>58057546
Why does that happen?
>>58057563
Because money earns you money.
$10000 right now rather than 2 years down the line can be earning you money via investments also inflation.
>>58057098
>If you don't like it, just don't do it
I have to do it in order to keep up with everyone else. If I don't keep up my life will fall into ruin.
>>58057261
>Why would you do a job for society if you get nothing in return?
altruism
>>58057563
Because memeflation
The thriving of Capitalism and the way Communism always fails despite its seemingly utopia like idea is proof that humans are greedy dirtbags.
>>58057693
>>58057649
How do we stop inflation so interest rates don't need to exist?
>>58058337
Burn money so it's more valuable.
>>58058337
Stop printing money
But they will always exist. Time value of money, dumbass.
What incentive does one have to give you a loan if he does not benefit?
>>58058337
Interest will always need to exist because not everyone pays off their loans.
>>58058391
>>58058417
What's the point of charging interest to protect yourself from any losses when you're not even sure they'll pay the interest you're charging? Also how would money become less valuable if there is no inflation?
>>58057231
All this time i never knew where le happy merchant came from
>>58058514
Because it's like insurance you dumb fuck.
In order to cover the potential calculated losses you need to charge Someone. It comes from somewhere obviously.
Would you give a loan to someone if you stood only to not get your money worse case scenario, and best case scenario not earn any of it and have it locked down for x years?
Canada is run by Jews. Do not trust Canadians.
>>58056997
Welcome to Islam
>>58058662
>why won't people just give me money for free!!??!!
Explain to me why I wouldn't just take out loans and invest the money?
>>58058514
>>58057240
Have you never thought about economics are value before?
>They're not business, they don't sell products, they don't make anything.
They provide a service, the product is the loan
The government also encourages inflation (though the target inflation is very low per year it does add up because it compounds) so that instead of keeping money in the bank people will invest their cash in investments/goods
'but why does the government want to encourage the production of goods and investments into businesses?'
So that we make better products and advance technology quicker, also because they're greedy fucks but that's alright because the standard of living for everyone who plays the game goes up too
>>58057045
t. college kid
>>58058708
I can hear you rubbing your palms together from here, Schlomo.
>>58058586
Assuming no inflation...
>give a loan to someone without interest rate
I'm at risk of not getting payed back any money at all
>give a loan to someone with interest rate
I'm at risk of not getting payed back any money at all
You're still at risk of losing your money.
>>58058586
Do we need loans? Why can't we do useful things for each other to earn money and then use that money to build and make things?
>>58058818
Banks don't give out a loan to just one person
if 1% don't pay back their loans and the banks charge interest to many customers then they're still able to make a profit while also staying in business
Think about the situation before you ask a question, you can probably work out the answer on your own
>>58058818
The idea is you loan to someone else who will pay back then the interest covers the deadbeat and the deadbeat is somehow reprimanded.
>>58058804
It's obviously the jews
Damn jews won't just give me money for free. What the fuck! Just give me money
>>58058818
Read a textbook on assessing credit and risks and shit dude. Ffs.
It's similar to insurance. Insurance companies make money because they assess risks and discover not everyone is going to get in a car accident so they pay the people who do with others premiums (who dont)
>>58058857
Why would, I or anyone wish to give away my money with ZERO profit or benefit to myself when I can be earning 8% in an index fund tracking the s&p?
They teach this shit in high school
OP is either pretending to be, or actually is, slightly retarded
>>58058708
>Explain to me why I wouldn't just take out loans and invest the money?
>What is shorting?
>What is trading on margin
>>58058897
Why are people paying extra just because other people fail at paying back money they owe on loans? That's some communist shit.
>>58058889
I just don't think people should make unfair trades. If a bank is worried that a person may not pay back the money they borrowed then they should not lend them any money. If they do and the person fails to pay then the government should punish them.
>>58058900
>Read a textbook on assessing credit and risks and shit dude.
Which?
>>58059013
Good luck getting a broker to allow you to short if you're a neet
>>58059035
Any textbook
Just read one about credit and risk analysis
>>58056997
Don't worry, all you have to do is to be a muslim yourself. Not even kidding.
Interest rates is illegal according to Islam, that's why there is a distinct bank made for muslims around the world.
>>58059049
What do you reccomend?
>>58059035
>I just don't think people should make unfair trades. If a bank is worried that a person may not pay back the money they borrowed then they should not lend them any money. If they do and the person fails to pay then the government should punish them.
Banks don't generally lend to people who they expect to default, that's what your credit score is, but even a person with a perfect credit score can default for any number of reasons.
Not only do banks need to break even they need to profit, so that they can pay their cost of operating - so even if nobody ever defaulted AND there was never any inflation, operating a secure building with a full staff of employees means that they lose money if they give you 100 dollars in exchange for 100 dollars later.
Look OP, I'm a trust worthy man, I use 4chan like you, will you lend me and all my trustworthy friends all your money, even if you were 100% sure that we would pay you back?
Or, would you want us to pay you back what we borrowed and a little more, because you'll be providing a service, and also will have no access to your cash during the loan, AND one of us might get hit by a car or get sick and be unable to pay you back?
>>58058900
>Why would, I or anyone wish to give away my money with ZERO profit or benefit to myself when I can be earning 8% in an index fund tracking the s&p?
Well right. You would invest in companies that produced things to make money. But keep in mind those companies wouldn't have debts to pay either. So people would just have to work for a while to save up money (inflation free now) to jump start their business.
I'm thinking out loud right now.
>>58059111
Just stare at this picture until you understand.
>>58059035
>Why are people paying extra just because other people fail at paying back money they owe on loans? That's some communist shit.
Would you consider lending money to the homeless guy? Cause I wouldn't lol. Or pretty much anyone else for that matter.
>>58057069
Then fucking stop giving value to money !
It exists because you choose to believe in it, that's all.
Oh, and when you go shopping, cut the cow in different pieces BEFOREHAND !
>>58056997
But that's because you're an idiot.
There should be no interest rate for student loans, that's just plain evil
>>58059309
No because they're probably homeless because they don't have a job.
>>58058988
OP here. Probably the latter. I'm really tired right now and sick desu.
>>58059342
>Money is just paper, man!
>>58059385
Why would you lend to anybody anymore? All it takes it one person not paying you back for you to lose money.
>give person 1 $80
>person 1 pays you back $80
>give person 2 $80
>person 2 pays you back $80
>give person 3 $80
>"oh i'm sorry I lost my job I can't pay you back"
You're now -$80 and you've gained nothing from the people who did pay you back. It's now a losing proposition to lend out money.
>>58059462
>money is super special!!!!!!!!!!
>>58059269
Do you realize it's practically impossible to start a company without some form of financing? Firms can only finance operations a limited amount of ways, chiefly: debt, retained earnings, common stock, and preferred stock. Many companies use debt. Go to yahoo finance and look any company's balance sheet; they probably have some form of debt to finance what they're doing.
Also if people could only start businesses with their own savings (or retained earnings) there would be tremendously high barriers to entry in any industry. You'd probably see competition stagnate.
Also you misunderstand inflation and time value of money.
post more rare kot
>>58059378
Why?
>>58059462
It is.
Look at local Moneys popping up everywhere. People choose to give it a value, choose to believe in it, and it suddenly has value.
or the opposite :
>Go to mall, take a can of coke
>Take out your money
>Dude tells he doesn't accept your currency
>B-but it's money ! It's worth something, right ?
Your money just becomes a shit piece of paper, and the best you can do with it, is wipe your ass with it.
>>58059499
It's not a game. People shouldn't use other people as farm animals to make themselves rich. You should lend people money to help them provided they have the ability to pay it back. Accidents happen. Person 3 didn't lose his job on purpose just so he could avoid paying off his loan.
>>58059543
or you could go to the currency converter in the mall and get it changed into the local currency before buying something
>>58059425
Don't ever be ashamed of trying to learn about something you don't quite understand, that's how you gitgud, but from your questions it really comes off as if you haven't really thought things through on your own
Without interest, banks couldn't exist
Banks provide a very useful service of holding money securely, making your cash available on demand (cards/ATMs), and providing loans to individuals and to businesses
Very few people, or even big companies, have enough cash on hand to work on the projects they'd like to - but the people who hold lots of people's money DO have that kind of cash on hand, and allow for the production of useful creations
You might not like interest rates because they mean you're paying back more than you took, but the alternate reality is that you never had access to the thing you wanted because you hadn't had enough cash available to you at the time and nobody (aside from your parents) would provide loans if interest was illegal
>>58056997
>how does economy work
>Feel the Bern
>>58056997
Usury is unchristian, hence why historically only jews charged interest, which played into the "greedy jew" stereotype
>>58056997
The reality is, some people wont pay back their loan. This creates risk. Why would I risk loaning my money to strangers who may or may not pay me back in the future? I do believe interest rates should be locked in on loans so they can't keep increasing them whenever they feel like it. That should be illegal.
>>58059580
I was actually thinking about those currencies for which you need to have a membership.
So no, you can't simple convert it, since you're not member of their Currency Club.
AND, it doesn't change the fact that, it has no value at all in that situation.
It's just a piece of paper which represents a debt, if somebody doesn't acknowledge your money, well all you have is a piece of paper.
>Live as a happy American
>Napoleon comes back to life and conquer your country
>He doesn't give any value for dollar, and creates another currency.
Voilà, there's no institution or bank that will give you something in exchange of your paper, and in worse case, you live in a pro-Napoleon village, so nobody wants your fat-dollars either. Your money has no value, because everybody stopped believing in it.
>>58059514
In the Islamic world you pay the bank a fee upfront for the service of receiving a 0% loan if the bank is willing to finance you.
>>58059733
And the islamic world is fucking shit.
FUCKING RETARD
GO READ A TEXTBOOK OR INVESTOPEDIA YOU FUCKING BERNIE UNDERAGE RETARD
>>58059720
>currency club
lol
>>58059733
I`m gonna take out a billion dollar loan for 50 dollarsd and never pay it back
banks btfo
>>58059570
>You should lend people money to help them provided they have the ability to pay it back.
Why should I take a risk on you or anybody with no reward? Because I'm such a good person? lmao
>>58059750
>http://www.euskalmoneta.org/fr/le-projet-en-40-points/
You gotta talk their local dialect to be part of the club. They just really hate the Republic & American globalisation...
>>58059814
im in, I hate america as well
>>58059744
Clearly.
>>58059774
Just because you take out a 0% interest loan doesn't mean the banks can't repossess your assets for not paying back in a reasonable time.
>>58059887
lol what if I hide
If you didnt want interest, make a lot friend
>>58059887
How hyped do you think the saudis were when they realized their kingdom was sitting on a literal goldmine?
>>58059799
Because of the golden rule. I help you when you need it, you help me when I need it. It creates a society where people can trust each other and not want to cheat other and hurt others for their own personal gain. It's about the common good. Notice how pretty much all the rich, developed, peaceful, and educated countries have populations that trust each other, have low income inequality, and help each other help themselves? All the shitty countries are full of people that don't trust each other and consider strangers as potential enemies which cause them to not want to help each other.
ITT:
-people explaining loaning and interest rates
What OP should have asked: what is a bank
>>58059999
Czech'd
>>58059999
You are really naive, holy shit, dont change your cow for magic beans
>>58060071
It's no surprise a third worlder thinks I'm naive. Maybe try building a high-trust society. I sincerely hope you don't move to one because you will bring your inferior values and corrupt these high-trust societies.
>>58059999
only someone this out of touch with reality could be a libertarian or something
>>58059999
Kk bro.
I'm starting a business, can you loan me $50k?
I promise I'll pay you back and help you out whenever you want.
>>58060100
Just wondering, which high trust society are you talking about? No country does this.
>>58060100
Are you serious dude?
>>58060127
I don't have 50k
>>58060100
What are you even on about
All our banks would fail if they trusted people as much as you think they should
>>58060156
Can you loan me whatever you have then?
Cmon bro you trust me don't you?
>>58057098
Banks create their own money in a floating currency system which they lend forward. Fractional banking is a bitch.
>>58060192
Tell me about yourself.
>>58057045
Hmmmmmmm
Maybe because inflation exists, the time value of money is a legitimate and actual phenomenon, risk is always present in financial transactions, there is a finite supply of money, etc, etc, etc
So many things that are basic fucking knowledge. If you don't know any reason why interest rates exist, you're actually probably retarded. I can understand not knowing all the reasons, but you should at least know one.
Read a fucking book, nigger. An economics book.
>American education
OH SAY CAN YOU SEE
>>58060203
fractional banking is fine
if the reserves are adequate and the gov. insures some of the savings the pros really do outweigh the cons
>>58059462
You are economically illiterate.
Money is just paper. But it is paper we ascribe an intense amount of importance to.
You can ask thirty different economics professors the question "what is money?" and they will all give you different answers.
But it is just paper. It has no backing, can be printed freely, and exists as a measure of economic output and information - it has no actual intrinsic value.
>>58060100
Really dont know what are you referring to, but im pretty sure you know fuck all about this "high trust countries" and how their economies work, do you think they dont have banks?
>>58060291
I don't think they don't have banks.
>>58060100
We live in a high-trust society precisely because our financial system is the way it is.
You're just a retard that doesn't understand math and risk, aka a typical moron lmao weed college liberal.
>>58060312
We don't live in a high-trust society. Just the mere fact the other Americans in this thread thought not being selfish and wanting to help fellow Americans succeed is blasphemous shows how far America has fallen.
>>58060229
Inflation exists because fractional banking exists and if you subscribe to the idea of inflation you can't argue for finite supply of money because inflation means dilution of the currency base.
>>58056997
Interested rates over 10% should be illegal
>>58060274
Your post is just pixels, it has no intrinsic value
Like, words are just ink on tree pulp you know, they have no intrinsic value
Of course we already know that you goof, but socially accepted value is just as good in practice as intrinsic value - 'money is just paper' is babbies first 'deep thought'
>>58060369
Praise Allah, my good brother.
>>58060350
a loan with interest is an absolutely trusting arrangement
money is far more valuable in the present than it is in the future; because of investment opportunities, inflation, thousands of reasons
the bank trusts you to pay them back at a future value which is absolutely fair
just because banks aren't full of retards doesn't mean our financial system lacks trust
hell, the whole economy relies on trust
don't blame your own poor financial standing and decisions on society
read a fucking book
>>58060395
yes, and it's also prevailing economic theory as well
just because something is obvious doesn't mean it's incorrect
>>58060432
On mutual interests rather than on direct trust, desu
>>58060365
The market drives inflation more than anything else you finnish retard
>>58060473
Yes, and mutual interest is a form of trust - a much more responsible version at that
Just because a bank isn't your grandfather doesn't make you less of a retard.
>>58060476
"The market" of which a bank is a part of.
>>58060533
Sure, as well as thousands of other factors.
Fractional banking is more a tool to address symptoms rather than a cause.
Inflation more than anything else is caused by pushes and pull in supply and demand.
>>58060432
The interest itself does not mean it is a trusting arrangement. It can mean that
a) the bank needs extra money to pay employees and other things that don't have to do with the loan itself
b) the lender does not trust any single person they loan money to so they charge interest to each person just in case some people fail to pay their loans.
You are the one who needs to read.
>>58060365
1.7% inflation per year is a engine for investment and spending, if that means that each year the money supply must increase why is that a bad thing?
If you're concerned about pennies becoming useless they can be rotated out of circulation, really the only people getting screwed hard is if you leave all your money in your mattress and get stranded on an island for 70 years
>interest rate is 0.001%
>having 4.7M yen(43k$)
>interest - interest tax = 209 yen (1.93$)
why is this allowed?
>>58058726
They loan away money they don't own. All banks are supposed to do is to store other people's money safely for a fee.
>>58060669
woah, what are you going to spend your 5 million dollars on??
>>58060609
Are you an American who likes to pay tips? Tips > minimum wage?
>>58060680
Yes and I like to tip more if they make my dining experience great.
>>58060689
You'd like all of my money in one place, wouldn't you, you fucking viking
>>58060707
>amrican education
sadly 5 million YEN is average japanese
annual income.
>>58060689
Do you even know what the word finance means? Could you even grasp why it is so tremendously important to a modern economy?
It's no wonder you people were living in mudhuts longer than any other European.
>Economy runs on credit
>Le Jew interest is evil
Enjoy sharecropping fuckbois
>>58060803
>>58060793
Probably Americans with Jewish ancestry. Usury is immoral.
>>58060609
You lack a fundamental understanding of very basic concepts.
Are you in college? Enroll in a single macro econ class.
I doubt you've had any formal education though. I knew this shit by the time I was fourteen.
>>58060729
Eve if the service is horrible, you will still give tips?
>>58060840
Are you going to show me how I'm wrong. You've known this since you were fourteen so prove me wrong. Show me that interest means the arrangement is a trusting arrangement.
rare blini
>>58060840
Use that big brain of yours to realize you're talking to three different people
>>58060816
Yes, and it's our immoral financial system that is responsible for our entire standard of living.
We can certainly stop lending money at interest and go live more piously like the Amish - because it would recess our economy to a Medieval state. Feudalism sure is moral, tho.
>>58060885
Lmao stop exaggerating.
>>58060793
Yes, we must preserve this wonderful system where the 1% is able to control the economy through inflation and deflation so they can have more and more for themselves. Kill yourself you fucking bank shill
>>58057045
>why do interest rates exist
fucking stupid cunt, why should people lend out there money for free you fucking stupid shitstain fucking dumb amerilard.
if interest rates didn't exist no one would be able to afford to go to university because NO ONE WOULD LOAN THERE FUCKING MONEY
>>58060963
You should go into politics, you would do your country a great service by banning interest rates on loans
It will surely increase the standard of living for the average citizen, you've seen right through my Bank of America(tm) plot
>>58061010
They shouldn't loan money, only store them for a fee, and universities should be free and paid for by tax money.
>>58061010
University costs would go down, so if your family had saved a lot or were already quite wealthy you could afford to attend
Poor people would be double-fucked though
>>58061041
I don't think people should loan away other people's money, which is what they do.
>>58060865
I have, and you've chosen to ignore everything I've said.
A bank is a business, not your grandfather first and foremost. They trust average shmucks like you immensely by lending money at all, regardless of interest. Without an established relationship with you, interest is a defense against you borrowing a loan and not repaying it.
Second, money is more valuable in the present than it is in the future - as a result of inflation, as a result opportunity cost, as a result of market fluctuations. Therefore, a bank MUST charge interest on a loan if only to keep pace with the always changing purchasing power of money.
Interest is not just a way to make money on behalf of a bank, it is an economic necessity.
A loan is a trusting arrangement regardless of interest. Interest is a necessity for literally thousands of reasons.
Therefore, a loan with interest is a trusting arrangement.
A modern economy is hingent on trust.
It's why the 'moral' goatfucking muslims are stuck in the medieval age and we're here in an economy that actually can cater to disadvantaged peoples.
>>58061041
How does paying borrowing 500 dollars then paying 525 help increase the standard of living for a person? They lost money because of interest.
>>58061104
does borrowing*
>>58060932
It's not an exaggeration. The modern financial system is an engine of economic growth.
>American economics
>>58061079
Why?
Why don't you then open a bank where you don't issue loans?
And then you know what I'll do?
I'll open a bank that does issue loans, and then divide the interest earned over the people whose money I used to make the loan.
And you will go out of business very quickly.
And we'll be back to banks issuing loans.
Do you have a brain? Are you capable of any basic reason? Can you not possibly guess why things are the way they are or do you think they simply happened one day on accident?
If I lend you money then I want some extra money back.
If you don't want to pay me a small amount of extra money back on top of what I lent you, I'm not gonna lend you anything. I don't know you.
Why would I just give you a sizeable chunk of my money for no fuckin reward?
>>58061079
why not?
fractional reserve banking works.
>>58061270
well education is heavily subsidized by government here in nz, so we have interest free university loans for all domestic students. I think international people have to pay ridiculous fees
>>58061101
>lending money at all, regardless of interest
I agree with you.
> interest is a defense against you borrowing a loan and not repaying it.
Not true. see these posts:
>>58060609
>>58058818
Interest is there to make profit and to pay workers, property taxes, etc.
You don't charge interest because you trust a person.
>>58061205
Of course, things are the way they are. But I think it should be ILLEGAL to loan away money they don't own themselves. Stop projecting your own stupidity on me you mouth-breathing troglodyte.
>>58061104
Because if you're borrowing 500 you probably spent it on something you couldn't have afforded otherwise
Maybe you went to college, or bought a house, or used it to buy stocks
You've lost 25 dollars in exchange for gaining something would not have been able to afford without the loan - loans are increasing your standard of living if you don't just take a loan and then stick the money in your home safe until it's time to pay it back
>>58061270
There doesn't have to be a reward. Also you're not forced to lend people money.
>>58061324
have you met magnus carlsen
>>58061294
What do you mean by "works"?
>>58061324
He's asking why you think it should be illegal, that's not projecting
>>58061324
Yes, and why should it be illegal if the bank customers agree to it?
Just because?
My fictional bank issues loans and pays its customers interest. They're very happy with the arrangement.
Let's make it illegal why?
??????
Your model will also prevent domestic investment, foreign investment, business lending, consumer lending, home purchasing, auto loans, will cause massive uncontrollable inflation, will recess the economy, will prevent innovative products from hitting the market, and will cause common goods to rise in price.
By all means, make it illegal in Norway. Go right ahead. You faggots have had it too good too long anyway, and it's clearly not the result of any brainpower.
>>58061321
Right now. Right. Now.
Google "net present value" and "inflation"
Google "risk management" and "central banking"
Interest exists for thousands of reasons. You have thought of two, and they're not even nearly the most significant reasons.
>>58061326
OK I agree with you for the most part.
>>58061506
The topic was about how interest relates to trust, not why interest exists.
>>58061567
Yes, we both understand that you are arguing semantics. It doesn't mean that your fundamental argument isn't absolutely flawed.
Trust means many things. Trust between institutions is very different than trust between family members, which again is a very basic concept you don't understand.
I'll absolutely let you have your retardedly fought win in this argument though as long as you promise me to never vote in a democratic election in this country - clearly you don't deserve to. Sound fair?
>>58061424
Of course, banks should be able to loan away their own money, but not other people's money, you are entitled to do with your own things as you please.
There are MANY things that needs to change, and I would agree that simply just making loans illegal in today's society would be mad.
>>58061655
It has never been about semantics. You were shown to be wrong so you changed the argument. It has always been about whether interest means the loan is an agreement based on trust. Go ahead and argue about semantics but I'm not going to join you.
>>58061655
Read that last line back to yourself and tell me it doesn't sound incredibly pretentious and I will send you $100 (One Hundred) through Western Union
>>58061703
Ah, okay then I am going to choose to save my money in a bank that will offer loans - because they've agreed to pay me interest on my savings.
Is it the language barrier or the oil fumes?
>>58061321
WRONG. Interest does cover DEFAULT risk. That is 100% true and the extra % points constitute the default risk premium. The "base" of the interest rate, if you would like to put it that way, is the RISK FREE RATE. You are right in that interest is there to make a profit, but wrong in saying that it is not a defense against lending money and not having it repaid. The previous anon you replied to did not mention that default risk is not the only factor determining interest rates
The risk free rate (pay attention and read carefully) is the interest rate an investor can make –wait for it– make risk free! This is regarded, by practically every investor, to be the rate on a treasury bond. Why would I loan money to some dumb faggot, who has a higher chance of missing payments, and not the the US government? The only incentive is to make more money. The risk premium is the incentive for me to loan to a riskier borrower, I.E some dumb faggot. There are other factors besides just the risk free rate and credit risk, such as liquidity and taxes.
>banks give now 1.75% intrest on a mortage
>even when i use all my money i can go to 225k house
>high earning temp job
>mfw
>>58061719
No, you said "we don't live in a high-trust society"
And I will tell you that institutional lending (lending with interest for you who struggles with the big words) is highly indicative of a high-trust society.
Because institutions wouldn't be lending at all without interest.
A society without institutional lending means loans are coming from individuals - and they're only going to offer loans to family and friends.
Our whole economy is high-trust. But you don't understand the word trust outside of a familial setting.
>>58061807
Sounds like a transaction you can't actually afford that will put you in a lot of trouble. It's a very classic blunder, please steer clear.
>>58061725
It might sound pretentious, but I am legitimately afraid that this man can vote when he doesn't even possess a basic understanding of how our society is structured.
>>58061750
A bank would never give you interest on your savings or offer you loans if they couldn't loan away money that isn't theirs.
good christians shouldnt take interests when lending money
jesus said so
>>58059378
They're backed by the government and you can't default out of them. In this way the loan is extremely low risk compared to other loans, and also why literally anybody can get one.
>>58060229
>If you don't know any reason why interest rates exist, you're actually probably retarded.
This
>>58061920
YEAH NO SHIT
Because interest towards my savings comes from the interest on the loans, you gigantic fucking retard.
Here, I'll post a video meant to explain it to grade-schoolers. You are clearly very behind.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fbo3YB0PoFE
>>58061858
600€ monthly payment is my goal for a mortage. I can put in 50k and still have 25k left for the 10% tax on the price. So borowing 175k on 30years is Ok i guess. I ofcourse use the 600 for when i lose my job and get a regular one.
>>58061830
Ok you're right.
>>58061830
What books can I read to learn more about this.
>>58062021
Making a long-term financial commitment based on temporary circumstances seems a very bad idea fundamentally to me.
Why not work on getting a better job before getting a mortgage? Better insurance.
>>58062062
"Free to Choose" by Milton Friedman as a starter
Better to take a class
>>58062075
I now have a good paying job. But its temp. Whenn i calculate the mortage i want, i keep in mind that 1/3 of your monthly wage is needed for your it. 600€ is ok if you make 1600 minimum.
>>58061987
Nope. Savings in a bank have nowadays shit all to do with the money bank lends forward. Savings sit there and get almost the yearly inflation in interest while the bank practically prints its own money with fractional banking and lends that forward and generates xbox hueg profits, it does not use the savings. Thus is why a run on the bank is so devastating nowadays, because bank can't back up its loans 100% with savings.
>>58061987
Are you really this dense?
Either banks earn money from fees by keeping other people's cash safe(which is all banks are supposed to do, really) or they pay people to store their money and loan them away at interest.
The latter should be illegal, because they are borrowing away money that isn't theirs, and they would never borrow away their own money.
Though if this is the kind of shit they feed you with as kids then it is no wonder why you are this narrow-minded and simple.
>>58062168
If he doesn't understand why people agree to give banks the use of their money, he definitely won't understand fractional reserve banking. I still don't entirely understand fractional reserve banking. I ask my friend to explain it to me (he has a master's in economics, I studied business and engineering).
I'm just giving him a basic introduction as to why things have progressed the way they have, and why such a simple denouncement of the financial system is childish.
>>58062250
Why are you even in this argument if you don't understand what fractional reserve banking is?
>>58056997
yes money should be made obsolete. all our riches are now measured by the number of funny pictures and memes stored to our hard drives. woodn't that be huetopia.
>>58062203
Do you even know why banks exist? Do you know why we use a currency system? There is a massive history here you are completely ignoring and I don't have the time to explain it to you.
But I will ask another simple question before I finally go to bed. Do you honestly think that you, some random Norwegian guy sitting in front of his computer has dreamed up a better solution than one that has evolved over hundreds of years, thounsands of individuals, and countless institutions?
Isn't it a much more reasonable assumption that you're just lacking knowledge?
>>58062294
But then memes would become money
>>58062308
>Do you know why banks exist?
>Well I won't explain why but I'll make a pretentious remark!
>>58061883
If a large percent of the people understood how stuff really works we would not be allowed to have democracy mate.
>>58057045
Inflation and profit. If they could have spend it better in some other place they lose money borrowing it to you.
>>58062287
I know what it is, I am not entirely aware of all of its implications. It's very, very complex. I am willing to admit a patch in knowledge as I know people who are much better equipped to understand and explain it to me. You're only parroting the Finn. And if you possessed such advanced economic knowledge, you'd know why a bank should be allowed to issue a basic fucking loan.
>>58062341
I don't have time to type the literal books he would need to read to begin to attempt an understanding of the modern financial system. Sorry nah.
And I'm not being pretentious, I'm correct. There's a difference. It sounds pretentious to you because you haven't done the proper reading.
>>58062341
>>58062308
You just admitted you don't even know what fractional reserve banking is..
Go to bed anon, there is very little substance in your posts, and now you're just flinging shit because you're... well... stupid.
What is this thread even about? Is this the inevitable effect of summer heat?
>>58062438
No. I said I don't have a complete understanding. You don't have any. Re-read, Jorgen. Fractional reserve banking is highly dependent on monetary policy and central banking, which is where it gets very very hairy and deep. I don't have a master's in economics, I have a pretty good understanding of it.
Strangely enough, I am not going to claim to know everything on 4chan. Still, I know enough to know you know nothing. The lack of understanding you've demonstrated is absolutely childish.
What did you study in uni mate? Honestly asking. I hope to god it's science related or you're absolutely fucked.
>>58056997
Yes they should be. But it probably won't happen, because everyone who is rich today like interest rates and the information asymmetry between rich and poor is huuuge.
>>58062365
The truth is, "advanced economic knowledge" or whatever magic word you prefer to use, isn't required to understand it.
It's almost specifically designed to appear more complex than it is, so peasants like us wont meddle in their business.
You should study history, and not economics.
>>58062644
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Holy shit you're in for a rude awakening once you grow out of your "i'm very smart" phase.
I hope your family's loaded pal. For your sake.
>>58062539
Central banking is cancer and your country was formed specifically to oppose it.
"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered.... I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies.... The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs." -Thomas Jefferson
>>58062644
"it only appears complex, it's not actually complex" "it's magic"
Yeah, just like those crazy magic flying machines. They just appear complex. They're actually very simple. The answer is magic jews.
>>58062678
I make my own money, and I keep it all in cash.
Kill yourself.
You see what I did there?
>>58062697
Yeah, and ain't it coincidental that the introduction of central banking is right around the time our economy modernized?
Thomas Jefferson was a smart man, but like most smart men he didn't know everything.
Only fools like yourself claim to know everything.
>>58057219
You don't like kot ? I think it's a great meme
>>58062728
If you knew anything about "magical economics," you'd know why that's retarded.
Your currency's value is dependent largely on the price of oil. When oil goes down, your currency inflates.
As it has:
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/norway/inflation-cpi
By keeping it in cash, and not investing it to keep up with inflation, you are insuring that the money you own now will be worth significantly less in 20 years.
Like I said, I really hope you studied science. That way you can still be useful.
But please don't talk about economics like you know anything.
Currency is currency. Currency is not gold, you fucking mongoloid.
>>58062449
Bankers getting BTFO ITT
>>58056997
DUDE...AHAHA
FREE..PFFFFT... FREE MONEY HAHAHA
LMAOOO FREE SHIT DUDE HAHA FREE WEED LOOOL
>>58062893
Interest basically is "free stuff". Money growing without any new effort just based on old money. So you are actually arguing against yourself.
>>58062935
dude ad hominum or some shit lmao
>>58062748
Ah, its good because its "modernized" right? Is it not possible for an economy to "modernize" without central banking?
The US was much better off without the federal reserve and with a gold backed currency.
I've never in any of the posts claimed that I know everything, I think you're just projecting.
>>58062935
Wow, what an amazing and intricate understanding of finance you've demonstrated in three sentences.
Crazy. When the guys on wall street read this it will turn the whole thing on its head.
Simply amazing. Good job. These three sentences are going to change everything.
>>58062975
Spoken like a true arrogant banker. I guess we're just a bunch of peasants who can never even dream to achieve this great enlightenment and understanding of finance that you posess.
>>58062975
And you still wonder why come I don't visit that city. It must be a big mystery alright.
>>58062948
You really like the idea of medieval economics huh?
Gold? What is the inherent value of gold? Sure, it has some industrial uses, but the value is largely cosmetic.
I'd rather my currency be competitive, and backed on the sum total of American productivity and output.... like it currently is.... currently.... current... currency? AH YES. Currency, as in current reflection of economic output mediated by federal banking institutions.
Dude, fucking shut up.
>>58063057
Well that's just stupid. New York's a hell of a town. Good sandwiches.
>>58062812
Yes, your point being?
Are you arguing with yourself here?
I think property taxes should be illegal.
>>58056997
It fucked Greece in the ass hahaha germs are still getting their profit.
>>58063094
I really hope you studied science. Mind sharing? Because business jobs don't hire when you tell them "economic thought is jew magic"
>>58062748
The U.S. was already prosperous before the Federal Reserve was created.
>>58063113
>studied science
kek
>>58063129
Sure, and much moreso after its creation
>>58063060
Gold is valuable because its Rare, the only time gold is ever created is when a star goes supernova. I never said we should use gold today, I personally think we should use energy as a currency. Stop being so angry, little man.
>>58063060
Fiat currencies have no inherent value lmao
>>58063186
Yes, but name one thing you cannot purchase with enough American dollars, by all means.
>>58063113
Eh, ok? bye?
>>58063086
Not sure I would fit in very well. Too much people and all money and pride and social status hunting. I would likely feel like an alien.
>>58063154
You can't be sure it was because of the federal reserve though.
>>58063174
Energy can be used as a currency, so can gold, it's just more efficient to mediate these transactions with numbers and paper. Please tell me how you can easily transfer energy to me.
Dude, read a fucking book on economics please. You don't even understand what a basic market is it seems.
>>58063104
> Desperate american slowly losing control of EU and trying to sow division within the union.
>>58063237
The "Federal Reserve"... funny name considering its a PRIVATELY owned bank.
>>58063228
How would you know? You've never visited.
Awful hard to do when you don't participate in the financial system, though.
>>58063282
Yeah. Same goes with all protectionist laws. Copy "Rights", when what it really is, is a Copy Restriction.
>>58063282
>>58063319
DUDE LMAO YOU TOTALLY GET IT SO MUCH SMARTER THAN THOSE FUCKING ELITES WITH THEIR TOP UNIVERSITY EDUCATIONS, UNWAVERING WORK ETHICS, AND HIGH PAYING JOBS REFLECTIVE OF THEIR SKILLS LMAO
>>58063300
The image that is painted in media tells me it's a place for people who are like I described. Are you telling me that image is a lie?
>>58063365
It's a city with a population bigger than your whole country, but yeah EVERY SINGLE PERSON there is a wall street banker type.
Bro, come on, seriously?
>>58063344
Yes, because we live in a perfect meritocracy right? It's mostly people who are already rich who can do these things and end up as the "elites". They actually did a recent study on this in europe.
>>58063486
No system is perfect, but it is much better than living at just about any other time in history.
You can blame everything but yourself, or you can work within the system. At least in America, if you have skills you will be paid adequately for them. Competent engineers, financial analysts, and tech workers are not hurting for pay.
>>58063344
wow someone got mad, didn't they.
Why don't they just print more money? Everyone would be happy then
>>58063344
Hahaha yeah they would never use those things to turn a profit at the expense of others by lying.
>>58063537
Everyone works within the system, that doesn't excuse the system's shortcomings.
>>58063613
It must be fun living in a world devoid of personal responsibility. It's womens' fault you can't get a date, yeah?
>>58063680
Now that's a silly strawman.
>>58063773
Yeah, no shit. I've presented you specifically with several logical arguments and questions tho and received no answer. You'd rather poke holes at the format and not the logic.
Drop the history degree and study engineering instead, Lars. Better security in a sure to be turbulent world.
>>58063845
I'm not sure which posts are yours, I'm sorry if I didn't answer you, I am tired.
I'm an electrician
>>58063344
>>58063845
If these posts are yours then you seems to follow the same procedure you are describing.
>>58063845
>logical arguments and questions
>acting like a sarcastic prick
Pick one
>>58063643
the problem is that everyone don't, and the ones who don't go to waste. unused resources.
>>58057032
According to Old Testament, yes. But it also has a lot of stuff revised / reversed by the New Testament. And the modern world finds money having a time value (i.e. interest) useful.
Superior kot
