Can we have a serious discussion about what went wrong?
What happened culturally/historically/politically/economically to make this such an ass backwards place?
im gonna pop some tags only got 20 dollars in my pocket
Europe
Same thing that happened to the Americas: Europe and Asia had pigs, cows, chickens, sheep, and horses, whereas Africa had oxen and the Americas had llamas. It only makes sense they would be fucked over; the difference is that in the Americas we stuck with it, whereas in Africa we stopped halfway through and let it sort itself out.
>>57902860
Here's a literal page of reasons why that's wrong:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_domesticated_animals
>>57902860
Wtf ? Sub saharan Africa had horses, dogs and livestock way before Europe got in contact with them (horses might have been imported by Arabs and berbers though, the camel defenitely was), however they didn't have any significant agriculture, because hunting-gathering was efficient enough to feed them. Most human migration movements in Africa are based on natural occurences and cycles (ie they follow the sources of food)
Revolution wen't wrong all of those countries were better under European colonialism.
>>57902768
It isn't backwards for africans m8, most africans think strenght and individual sheer power is above social features and general society. That is why most African societies historically had abudant slavery and wars
Read Gun, Germs, and Steel.
niggaz
>>57904398
this
white people manipulated it and raped the resources for a long time
i'm not sure it matters why
then you had countries fail when they were finally given independence because it is nearly impossible to start a successful country with no infrastructure, no internal economy and all your goods being exported to white countries just like during colonialization. also people like Lumumba getting assassinated because of the cold war and the US installing an evil dictator made it hard on a country like the DRC but i'm not sure if that happened as much in Africa as other places.
african society in general was almost anti-progress, they did not have our concept of time at all until colonialization
>>57905831
So why is that Ethiopia and Liberia are two of the poorest, most backwards countries on the continent despite only being colonized by blacks?
>>57905921
>Ethiopia
>Colonized by blacks
What? And Liberia is poor because of a civil war it had when the native Liberian president was in office
>>57905921
>Ethiopia
Communism, which they thought means progress from empire.
>Liberia
Slavery,, which they reproduced with Blacks owning Blacks.
>>57906000
No that is not why Liberia went to shit, so stop talking about things you know nothing about
>>57906018
everything is whities fault?
>>57906018
There was such a reporter, Ryszard Kapuściński, you know....
>>57905921
>african society in general was almost anti-progress, they did not have our concept of time at all until colonialization
they did not even have the concept of money
africa would not be some superpower if whites had left them alone, it just wouldn't be as violent as it is today, nor as dependent on white purchasers. but this would never have happened because of imperialism and, imo, human nature
why they did not develop like whites or asians is a cesspool of a debate filled with people catching feelings and rationalizing. Guns germs and steel is an ok starting point, though of course there are just as good counter arguments
a lot of war
>>57905956
Right, Ethiopia was never colonized at all. And don't say the Italians did, they fucked off before they could do anything.
Now why do you think there was a civil war in Liberia in the first place? It wasn't because everyone was so pissed about all the clean water, medicine and education they had.
>>57906027
Did i say that?
>>57902768
it bothers me, because if there was a real reason other than them being incapable of civilization i could rest easy about the issue of race and intelligence
"WHITEY DIDS IT" is such a fucking cop out.
they never seem to have domesticated anything, wild horses are dangerous too and so are cows. ox's aren't dissimilar
so someone stop memeing me and tell me exactly what the fuck happened i literally would prefer it to be something other than 'africans are genetically retarded'
>>57906059
europe's been having wars forever
>>57906069
The Liberian civil war started because Charles Taylor wanted to over throw Samuel doe
>>57906115
>animals to dangerous to be domesticated
Then why whiteys domesticated the more dangerous of two species of aurochs, tur instead of żubr?
european colonialism redrawing the map to their pleasing and fucking up the tribes
I'm only half way through it, but this books provides some excellent explanations for what went wrong and what went right.
>>57906155
And Samuel doe got in office because the U.S. help funded a coup against the americo Liberian president
>>57906164
yeah that's my point, any animal can more or less be domesticated especially a god damn ox
>>57905831
Lumumba was no angel. He came to power with a minority of the vote and only managed to get in government because he was part of a coalition. That coalition turned on him before US involvement, and Lumumba threatened to get the Soviet Union to back him. Mobutu was still terrible though, I'll never defend him.
>>57906115
what happened is nothing happened. they were not interested in progress, period point blank. honestly, a better argument is that it is FINE to not be interested in progress and you are free to dance and chant around all day and be a tribe of hunter gatherers for eternity. You can blame white people for manipulating and enslaving black people and for not developing socially as fast as technologically. But you can't blame white people for wanting, say, rubber that the Africans didn't even know how to use and were not interested in using. You CAN blame King Leopold for cutting off his slaves' hands every day.
tldr it is assumed that progress is the goal of all civilizations but that is not necessarily true.
>>57906170
tell me unless it's tumblr tier apologism
>>57906218
>tldr it is assumed that progress is the goal of all civilizations but that is not necessarily true.
heard that one before, i disagree with the sentiment but it's something
>>57906228
By /pol/'s definition, it's tumblr tier because it honestly asses the damage European colonialism did. If you don't believe whitey dindu nuffins the white man's burden was genuine and altruistic, it's a fairly non biased analysis. It doesn't seem pro-left or pro-right, it just goes over the history of countries since decolonization and how things went wrong/right. Like it says that the very authoritarian governments that Africans inherited from the colonial era contributed to corruption. Colonies typically gave all the power to a governor, and when African leaders commandeered that position, the immense power was easily abused. I find it hard to call that "anti white"/tumblr tier apologism when it's going over the impact Europeans had.
>>57906218
>you can't blame white people for wanting, say, rubber
You basically said:
>You can't blame white people for being thieves, it's just our nature!
>>57906303
>damage European colonialism did
they're gone and they left all their modern equipment and information, if this was planned properly they should have made it to at least mexio tier civilization
>>57906115
before europe, resources were abundant and there was little need for domestication. they were kind of isolated from the rest of the other cultures by the sea and the saharan desert. mesopotamians had to develop agriculture and domestication otherwise they wouldn't have survived in the desert. agriculture and domestication leads to a lot of different things like math. population growing in one place leads to cities, cities leads to construction, construction leads to engineering. all those things were brought to europe with the greeks and romans. meanwhile, for a long time, anglos and aryans were pretty much like niggers for thousands of years, using agriculture they didn't develop by themselves, while "sandniggers" and asians had and semitic whities actually had a civilization. I don't know exactly how the east civs developed tho. it also seems there were actual civilizations in africa, but I don't know much about those.
also, if you look at how zulus fought, for example, you can tell they were highly intelligent.
think of adam and eve myth. if you live in a world where food is abundant, you don't need to change how you live to survive.
>>57906212
>Lumumba threatened to get the Soviet Union to back him
damn i forgot
>>57906303
once colonialism happened the africans were totally fucked.
>>57906331
in the tiny off chance that this isn't b8, the rubber itself was no one's. it was just on africans' land.
a better question is what SHOULD have white people done? all I can say would be to have humanitarian tendencies and not try to kill and enslave as many africans as possible, but the humanitarian ideas came from the rape of africa to begin with.
>>57905921
Liberia was American bruv
>>57906352
Yep, SO MUCH experience was passed on to Africans... You have no idea what you're talking about. Europeans invested a small fraction of their budgets on educating Africans, especially compared to white settlers in the colonies.
>>57906331
You can't blame whiteys for "we came, we saw, we kicked they asses!" modus operandi, because, if you want to judge them, show me first a court empowered to judge such cases.
There's no court in the realm of nature. I've heard though that Chinese enter African markets and offer fair trade agreements instead of securing their interests with coups. If this concept comes out more profitable to both parties, it will be whiteys turn to got their asses kicked.
>>57906477
>You have no idea what you're talking about
which is why i am asking you cranky shit. you were doing so well not to get indignant too i'm more or less accepting what's said
>>57906507
>WE IS CIVILIZED THOSE AFRICANS WAZ KILLING EACH AND LIVING IN HUTS BEFORE WE CAME!
>Umm we had the right to enslave Africans and steal their resources because law of nature and shiet
>>57906525
But you made a claim about what Europeans did, despite being uneducated on the subject. Maybe just don't do that in the future.
And for infrastructure, that's also not really beneficial. It was all geared to resource extraction. For example, upon independence you could send a telegram from Benin to France, but not from Benin to Nigeria despite being neighbors because all the infrastructure was designed to send resources to the colonizer and not to enable trade with their neighbors. All developed economies depend on trade with their neighbors instead of just exporting resources to one or maybe two countries. That hampered growth a lot. It also enabled corruption because leaders found it more profitable to not invest in infrastructure and just keep the status quo of exporting resources to Europe and pocketing the money for themselves. The wealthiest African countries have less natural resources because to get rich, they have to develop the country instead of depending on corruption and kick backs.
>>57906525
everything was extremely, extremely racist and racialized. i read that in what became the DRC, african students needed a high proficiency in French to gain access to higher level education, a language that none of the people they interacted with ever spoke. It was literally assumed that no blacks could learn white people stuff so it was not taught to them. whites did install -some- useful infrastructure and basic concepts necesaary for a modern country but they generally did not leave Africans in good position to create successful independent countries, at all. Also a bunch of countries tried to start with socialism without any economy to pay for it
>>57902768
Colonialism and whites coming to them fucked everything up.
The reason why they never developed cities or hard infrastructure was because before white people they didn't need any of that shit. Everything they had was right in the land.
>>57906632
yeah, all of the trains were routed to strictly move resources from deep in the continent to harbors to go to Europe
>>57904398
Terrible book
>>57906632
>Maybe just don't do that in the future.
go ahead and be a cunt about it then, maybe we don't all obsess with african colonization to the point of reading about it.
you're selling it like it's unethical too which is wrong.
>>57906544
Yeah, it was more or less what whiteys found when they entered Slavic lands and it was more or less what they did there. There is a reason, while slaves are named slaves after all.
And guess what, we adopted their fucking religion and we told them to fuck off in their own language, which was war, and somehow we managed to succeed in securing our sovereignty, integrity and profits, more or less, for centuries.
And this is, more or or less, what Botswana is doing right now. Last time I checked they had the greatest GDP per ca. growth in the whole fucking world. And what's the most funny, they have the most primitive population, biologically, of the world living there, the Khoisan people. But they all adapt and show no signs of butthurt like you do.
>>57902768
It's full of blacks.
>>57906700
Ok so you really believe colonizing people and treating them as third class citizens (yes, Asians/Indians were imported as second class citizens because Europeans didn't trust Africans to hold profitable jobs because divide and rule) in their home isn't unethical? Why come here in the first place if you've already made up your mind?
>>57906728
but that's a cop out and surely beneath your standards as a white?
>>57906331
How else were they going to get the rubber?
>>57906745
Not really. Blacks are genetically and intellectually inferior. It's why no black civilisation (ours, Africa's, even Indians) never conquered Europe. Nothing was stopping them, right?
>>57906751
Free trade. You don't have to colonize people to get their resources. People just resorted to colonialism because they didn't want to pay full price for those resources.
>>57906743
>Ok so you really believe colonizing people and treating them as third class citizens
every war ever. at least there's a reason africa is shit and it isn't genetic and that's all i was asking
>Why come here in the first place if you've already made up your mind?
on the contrary i've tried to give you a chance to sell your bit and you've been a condescending retard about it. won't do that again.
>>57906766
>taking me seriously
your opinion is trite and boring btw
>>57906790
I'm not here to keep you from being bored.
>>57906777
And you're a condescending retard about a group of a billion people. And yeah, war is generally unethical. Even when it's ethical to enter it, it's because someone else started it unethically.
>>57906773
Yeah I know, was just being silly.
It seems at a glance a lot of the problems left behind from Eurofags have been made worse by rampant widespread corruption. Good thread
Also I'm not that other Aussie spaz talking out his arse, fuck that guy what a dumb cunt.
>>57906804
>a group of a billion people
they live terribly, it's a fact
>war is generally unethical.
opinion
>>57906773
then you are saying that white people should have waited decades for africans to become interested in free trade and the use of rubber before gaining access to it. No civilization from planet earth would ever have done this
>>57906801
i'm telling you to R E A D and become informed
>>57906713
Umm pretty sure Slavs were already educated before you slavery shit, so your situation is not comparable to Africans
>>57906848
>i'm telling you to R E A D and become informed
>read about relations between africa and europe in the 17-18th century
are you going to be okay if most people don't care about this specific topic or did you buy a degree in it lol
>>57906827
Nobody denied they live terribly (well most of them, there's a lot of inequality so some live nice lives). Why they do is what's being discussed. And believe it or not, now that enough time has passed for a lot of countries to start getting over the problems left from colonialism, they're starting to grow economically + become more democratic. It is not universal, but a general trend exists. Living standards are improving.
>>57906893
>Nobody denied they live terribly
which is what i'm saying
>Living standards are improving.
good
>>57906886
i literally took a single required class at my uni, unrelated to my stem degree. now you are sweating as you get btfo for being a mouthbreathing bogan
>>57906848
You're an idiot. People don't have to find something useful to sell it. In fact not being interested in it makes them more likely to sell it. Europeans had plenty of things they could have traded for rubber. But they didn't want to, because that would have been more expensive than colonialism.
>>57906864
But yes, of course; we had even contacted ayy lmaos, cause our folklore is full of flying ships, but shh, it's a secret.
We had no fucking writing system those days and we didn't even devise one on our own, like for instance Cherokees did.
>>57906920
>i literally took a single required class at my uni
knew it
>being a mouthbreathing bogan
i've been so civil with you as far as 4chan goes they're going to make this an international holiday. the essay writing was annoying from day one, post links next time
>>57904256
>Sub saharan Africa had horses,
kek
source?
>>57906948
You don't want to read what an anon types on 4chan, but you'll read something in a link he posts?
He's right about you interjecting with wrong shit when you don't know what you're talking about, you got rekt and now you're trying to take some non-existent moral high ground too? You're being a faggot and have been for like half the thread, cut it out, faggot.
>>57906384
Because Lumumba asked for help form the west and even asked the UN but the UN is still as useless then as it is now.
>>57906922
>the africans were excited and happy to see that the white people had arrived
nevermind the fact that white people thought blacks were literally animals
>>57906948
i wouldn't do that just for a retard like you
>>57906984
>You don't want to read what an anon types on 4chan
it's not normal for someone to type out paragraphs on here that's reddit
>you don't know what you're talking about
>>57906115
>so someone stop memeing me and tell me exactly what the fuck happened i literally would prefer it to be something other than 'africans are genetically retarded'
my only mistake was asking
>>57906713
Are you stupid Khoisan are 2nd class citizens and Botswana growth is heavily resource tied that if Diamond took a hit Botswana would falter.
IT still has massive inequality and poverty long with strains in serving it's citizens and high as hell HIV rates.
>>57907035
>not normal for someone to type out paragraphs on here
Your new is showing.
The IQ of the average African is literally at retarded levels, if you had such an IQ in the West you would placed in a group home for other tards
That is why it is a shithole
And yes IQ is independent of literacy levels
Tests such as the Ravens Progressive Matrices were devised to measure the IQ of people who are illiterate and have no education
>>57907042
He dosen't even know what he is talking about so don't waste your time with him
>>57905831
>No infraestructure.
Some places had better infraestructure than placces like China or Korea. They just destroyed it
They aren't glorious neanderthal genes masterrace.
>>57906995
>i wouldn't do that just for a retard like you
would have saved you time and energy, guess you wouldn't have got to call someone a retard for asking for a reasonable explanation though
>>57907068
Can you actually specifiy which ones?
>>57907068
corruption destroyed infrastructure later, but read this post made by someone not me on infrastucture >>57906632
>>57902860
Africans have been domesticating and herding cattle since antiquity
There is also no shortage of arable land there and they do not have to plan for extreme winters
Surviving a Northern European or a Northern Asian winter requires a great degree of formal reasoning ability, the Africans never had to survive such so their brains did not develop the capacity for higher reasoning
>>57907069
Neanderthals lost to homo sapiens sapiens though. Neanderthals were less adapted to the environment and died off as a result. Only a small percentage of their genome was passed onto modern humans, and the genes we kept are mostly related to immune system because that's the only useful genes they had.
it seems we cant because polfags have to pollute every board with their retarded "opinion"
>>57907042
I supposed Khoisans prefer to roam than to plow. But please tell me, why is Sierra Leone a shithole? It's full of diamonds too and gold, it should be able to hire some mercenaries at least to protect itself from Liberian warbands. But it isn't. Even African officials who tried to help them were wringing their hands, cause they couldn't persuade them to hammer a single nail.
>>57907109
>Neanderthals lost to homo sapiens
Got a source for that? I can't remember where I read it but I seem to remember something about basically 2/3 humans alive today having neanderthal genes in them. I'd say that is less losing to homos and more like becoming a part of us.
>>57907109
>Neanderthals were less adapted to the environment and died off as a result
This is not necessarily true as to why they died out
They intermixed heavily with homo sapiens and were swamped by migration of Homo sapiens
It's important to remember that natural selection is not the only cause as to why species die out and it's also important to remember that natural selection has no end goal and that it is simply what occurs, or did occur prior to the Neolithic revolution
>>57907104
>There is also no shortage of arable land there and they do not have to plan for extreme winters
Actually there's many areas where the soil is actually pretty shitty. ON top of that they have 24/7 diseases and pests, frequent drought and famines and the whole fact that Tsetse flies decimate livestock and basically make agriculture in many areas super inefficient because all the livestock die within a short while.
The whole winter makes you smarter is stupid because civilization developed in areas far form those said areas like in Mesopotamia or the Mediterranean and you statement is proven false by various cases such as Mongolians or Inuit.
>>57902768
They need proper empire. Today 3 sub saharan super states and a north african state would be fantastic. North, east, west, and south.
It's the only way they could reform the continent into a political and economic power that can actually bargain on the international stage in all regards. The modern borders are pants on head retarded and with further unification there can be tribal and environmental protections put into place. They can also go full degaulle-esque system to finally build themselves up too.
>>57902860
Africa had zebras and plenty of small game animals which could have been domesticated if they could muster together a stable complex society for 100-200 years.
>>57907156
they exist because of the glib attitude every motherfucker take about the topic, /pol/acks are just contrarians
>>57905921
Ethiopia was "colonized" by Italy pre-WW2, no?
>>57907200
Even Europeans couldn't domestic Zebras
>>57907217
>invaded 1935
>booted out by 41
Not really
>>57907180
Differential reproduction rates are a factor of natural selection. Neanderthals didn't reproduce as much as homo sapiens sapiens and they paid the price for it. There's literally no evidence for Neanderthals being superior.
>>57907192
Everywhere in the world has 24/7 disease and pests and Mesopotamia experiences cold winters
The Inuit are relatively new to cold climates when compared to Northern Europeans
And if the Africans were smart they would've selectively bred crops and livestock to resist drought and pestilence just like people everywhere else in the world did
>>57907156
wait what is a polfag? I know they hail from pol but what do they do wrong?
>>57907162
No the Botswana government treats them like utter shit and kicks them off their land, refuses to help them in any way and forcefully places them in shitty land that has issue like little water and far from resources.
Sierra Leone is shit because the civil war which caused heavy instability as wel a s the ever present mismanagement and corruption that plagues the nation. Resources are a curse to development as much as it's a boon because it's lead to so much fucked up shit and essentially paints a big target on you.
>>57907180
Every human has neanderthal DNA, Africans too because of Back flow into Africa.
>>57906773
Bullshit. It is cheaper to buy something in the market than to maintain a colony. The proble is that Africans didnt know how to exploit or ectract those resources. Things like prestige were also behind colonization. Most colonies were totally unprofitable
>>57907237
>Even Europeans couldn't domestic Zebras
Funny you should say that because they did domesticate zebras
nothing le "went catastrophically wrong" in africa compared to other places. there's still tribes doing their own thing like they have been for ages. there's plenty of decent towns and cities and places to live. there's problems like any other place has problems.
guarantee you've spent zero time in africa and have zero african friends.
>>57907283
>Every human has neanderthal DNA, Africans too because of Back flow into Africa.
Only certain groups in North Africa and the Horn
West Africa is devoid of Neanderthal genetics
>>57907200
>They need proper empire. Today 3 sub saharan super states and a north african state would be fantastic. North, east, west, and south.
Are you genuinely retarded?
I'm actually serious super states like that are a FUCKING MESS. the EU has a shiton of problems and barely holds itself together what makes you think making a cluttered of developing states form a bureaucratic mess of an empire
>>57904305
belgian congo
the neanderthal argument is retarded since east asians + amerindians have the highest amount of neanderthal blood and yet only a few asian countries have surpassed the west and we all know how well latin america is doing.
>>57907271
The Inuit migrated from North Asia, and North Asians have been living in the cold longer than northern Europeans.
>>57907351
The former German colonies in Africa are by far the best off though
Portuguese ones are shit
English and French ones are mix of shit and doing really well
>>57907312
>Funny you should say that because they did domesticate zebras
No they didn't. Zebras were very aggressive and would attack their owners and even if they were able to be calm the Zebras offspring their offspring were still aggressive and would bite and attack people.
>>57907345
The Eu is an organization that is heavily flawed. The African union is a joke what makes you think a super state would work.
>>57907369
And look at Japan and Korea and even Northern China which is where all their smart people come from
>>57907308
It was unprofitable towards the end when colonial governments were forced to provide more services to the Africans because they went on strikes and rebellions and shit, and the Europeans had to give concessions. It was however, immensely profitable for the corporations lobbying the government to do colonialism. Leopold II ran the Congo as a private company simply because it was immensely profitable back then.
>>57907401
*even if they were able to tame the Zebra their offspring
>>57907367
>and we all know how well latin america is doing.
???????
>>57907109
Nearthentals were also smarter, but their genetic impact on current humans is minimal
>>57902768
Because Greeks don't live in this shitty continent.
>>57907340
>what is the Rwandan genocide
>what are dictators
>what is sudan
wew
>>57907448
subhumans
>>57907436
Proof? They copied modern human tools and didn't invent many of their own. The big brains meme is just that, a meme. Their brains were shaped differently leading to the prefrontal cortex being smaller.
>>57907401
Ahh yes the vicious zebra
Europeans did not domesticate them en masse because they had horses but they did domesticate some zebras
Problem, Jared Diamond?
>>57902768
colonialism and tribal culture
Certain countries are slowly getting ahead but there's a lot of inequality and corruption which personally pisses me off
I used to go to a British school in Zambia and Egypt, and only the richest kids and children of foreign diplomats/multinational corp managers and shit got to go there. Everyone else had to settle for shitty education. Those who had, had a lot. Those who hadn't, had nothing. The schools had enormous fees set up for no other reason than to keep the poors away.
Here it's a lot different and the standard of living in Finland is more or less the same as in any international/private school here, so everyone can get in if they're good enough. If you're poor, they offer you grants and stuff. People trust the government more (well, maybe not as much anymore), and as a result are more willing to comply to rules. There people don't trust the govt (with good reason) so it's harder to control the public and people tend to think everyone's out to get them, so it's an enchanted circle.
>inb4 nigger
I'm Finnish.
>>57907448
>what is pol pot
>what is czars
>what is the holocause
>what is the black plague
>what is hiroshima bombing
>what is the gulags
>what is chernobyl
>what is what is etc etc
kys
>>57907308
Actually it's because it helps strengthen your businesses. The elite invest or make companies that then exploit resources and it labour in the colony and the government subsidizes it. No need to worry about competition when only your nations companies are allowed in and the natives are buttfucked to be powerless through colonial laws that are meant weaken and handicap natives into a weak and easy to exploit group.
>>57907423
The overall balance of most colonies was negative during all its colonization. Places like Algeria were totally unprofitable. And buying resources in the free market is cheaper than exploiting resources and keeping an army and a part of the navy over seas.
>>57907436
>Nearthentals were also smarter, but their genetic impact on current humans is minimal
No Neanderthals were not smarter why do u people keep saying this? They were not dumb people like the myths spread about them told they were as smart as homo sapiens not smarter
>>57907416
Correlation =/= causation.
>>57907500
your things are random bad things, my things were the result of colonialism, but good effort
>>57907480
I don't know what your trying to prove with those pictures. Just because you were able to tame an animal does not mean you domesticated it. I already said that the Zebras people were able to tame had off spring that were violent and would attack people and most zebras were hard to break unlike horses
>>57907340
>there's still tribes doing their own thing like they have been for ages.
Very very few and even then it's a stretch because modernization stretches our super far and even the isolated groups have frequent contact with modern things, governments or organizations.
>>57907514
Yet for some reason, Europeans colonized Africa to make money and stayed there for as long as they could. This can't be a coincidence...
>>57907515
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0096424
The most intelligent does not always win out
>>57907283
And what is Botswana's. govt official excuse for such misconduct which they sell to their citizens?
Also, if you're talking about some nation in Sierra Leone, then please tell me, is sovereign nation an irresponsible child which should be tutored day by day how to survive in the harsh world of international politics?
>>57907542
you must not be op since you know why africa is so fucked up
>>57907386
Not because of Germany.
Germany lost ownership of their African holdins after ww1 and they did some fucked up things.
Even Namibia is just okay at best and that's being generous.
>>57907552
Also Zebras were smaller than horses and them having to pull carts for long miles made them even more aggressive
>>57907479
They had music rituals and their own tools,and their brains were bigger and lived and survived in harsher conditions. Sapiens only outbreed them and organized in bigger societies.
>>57907529
It's impossible to establish a causal link for any of this
The best we can do when studying ancient peoples and even modern ones is correlations
I don't know if this is the main reason but at least it was an important factor. Geography in the african continent is quiet complicated, plus a HUGE place, different from Europe and with less natural barriers than North America. Something similar with South America and the hard chance they have being united because of the Amazon rainforest and the Andes Mountains. I would think indeed European colonialism affected drastically this place, and current African governments supported by Western countries to drain their resources gives them little chance to progress. Racism definitely has to do with it, it's not like the west is interested in having a country with a black majority which is developed. Still, I don't like to see Africa just as a 'backwards place'. There are many fast growing economies here and vibrant cities. Plus, Africa doesn't need to be developed in the same way as Europe or America. If they can grow without affecting permanently all their ecosystem it would be a lot more smart than many of the developed countries. Finally, thanks to China's decision to support Africa with loans primarily for infrastructure I believe they will continue growing and overcoming many of their actual problems.
Nothing went wrong, just give it time. All of human history has shown that civilizations develop at different rates, and exposure to other civilizations and subsequently new technologies and ideas often serve as a catalyst to a nascent civilization. Its like a Spring and Autumn Period Chinaman wondering what went wrong in Scandinavia.
>>57907560
Some colonies were just for prestiege,Bismark at first didnt want any colony because it would only cause problems and its impact would be mostly negative. Colonies like Algeria or Tunis were totally unprofitable
>>57907552
>>57907599
Wild horses are vicious as well
Domestication doesn't happen overnight it starts with taming and then breeding and it occurs over generations
Just because the Africans were unable to domesticate zebras does not mean that it cannot be done
You're also neglecting cattle which many African tribes did domesticate and in fact that's how they survived, namely the Zulus
>>57907601
No, they didn't adapt well to living in harsher conditions. That's why their population was so low, they couldn't adapt as well to the environment as modern humans. Bigger brains does not equal more intelligence, or else whales would the smartest animals. Brain structure is infinitely more important, and again modern humans had the advantage there.
>>57907514
Many colonies were also kept to prevent others from obtaining.
Belgium got Congo because Leopold list it so Belgium was given it in his place to govern and it was kinda forced upon Belgium.
>>57907607
But that can tell you fuck all about genetics or what is inherent of a people when there's a million different environmental factors acting on them.
>>57907650
Those also weren't typical or representative colonies.
>>57907668
What are you not getting? Europeans never domesticated Zebras only some were tamed. You can look up the domestication of zebras on google i'm done with you
>>57907700
IQ is largely hereditary and Africans have the lowest in the world by far
Even lower than Indians living in comparable conditions
>>57907448
Rwandan genocide was mostly the doing of European colonialists
Most dictators are propped and supporter by the west and Sudan is a combo of European colonialism, stupid decolonization, Israeli intervention and long standing racism from Arab mentalities against kafir.
>>57907424
>>57907401
>>57907312
Zebra aren't domesticated or a worthybdomesticate candidate, the close relative Donkey was and even the Egyptians complained about their attitude even though they were the main beast of burden there, East Africa and the Sahel.
>>57907271
All African crops can resist a degree of drought and pest fat beyond anything found elsewhere in the world however there are limitations of yield, the often connected infertile soil, quela a locust bird, actual locust, the striga parasite and the very common agro-pastoralism methods meant to mitigate the issues already mentioned.
You're asking why a people with different limitations didn't create a food system exactly like western Europe's and really the only stupidity being shown is yours
>>57907672
That doesmt make them profitable. It is way cheaper to buy resources to a local war lord than to exploit them yourself and having a big ay over seas. Some of the countries that developed the most in the XIX century had no colonies whatsoever,like Switzerland or Sweden,and were able to keep a very competitve industry without any colony.
>>57907719
>Europeans never domesticated Zebras
This is a bit different to your original claim that zebras could not be domesticated.
"Impossible" and "nobody bothered" are not the same thing
>>57907668
Calm, passive zebras are the ones that got killed easily by their predators which are a plenty. Calmness got selected against hard.
>>57907312
>>57907668
And just to let you know this guy stopped using zebras to draw his carriage because they were aggressive like i keep telling you
>>57907700
Most colonies where piss poor. Just take a map and see it yourself. And countries with no colonial empire where able to infustrialized the most,because they could buy at very cheap prices resources. Most colonies throughout history have been unprofitable.
>>57907726
Height is also genetic and hereditary, yet increased due to environmental conditions over the past century in the west. Please, take a bio 101 class.
>>57907719
Domestication begins with taming
Again it wasn't profitable to domestic them when Europeans already had horses that had been domesticated for centuries
Just because the Africans failed to make use of the abundance of resources at hand does not mean that they are unusable
Europeans turned many colonies into bread baskets where the natives had been unable to do so
This indicates people being the issue, not the resources at hand
Africans were never able to develop metallurgy whereas Europeans and Asians had millennia ago
>>57907744
>It is way cheaper to buy resources to a local war lord than to exploit them yourself and having a big ay over seas
Nigga you want exclusive access to that resource or straight up own it. If you let the war lord or African leader (s) have a choice they'll instead sell to the competition or demand more.
>>57907812
Colonies being poor makes then unprofitable? So by that logic China must be the richest country in the world because corporations from all over the world profit from them. Oh wait, they are still a shithole with half their population being rural and poor.
>Dismisses Guns, Germs and Steel
>doesn't offer a better explanation
>>57907735
>All African crops can resist a degree of drought and pest fat beyond anything found elsewhere in the world however there are limitations of yield, the often connected infertile soil, quela a locust bird, actual locust, the striga parasite and the very common agro-pastoralism methods meant to mitigate the issues already mentioned.
Everywhere else in the world faced these problems and overcame them
This shows that the problem lies with the people and not the conditions >>57907824
Nice false equivalency
Height is independent of IQ
>>57907835
>Africans were never able to develop metallurgy
wat?
>>57907860
But there wasnt scarcity of resources. If the warlord sends them to another one you can just change buy to another one. Sweden was the country that developed the most in the XIX century,and they had no colonial empire. They just bought resources cheaply,keeping tariffs low.
>>57907835
>Africans were never able to develop metallurgy whereas Europeans and Asians had millennia ago
Jesus Christ Superstat what are you fucking serious? Are you saying there was no African iron age?
>>57907890
Did I ever claim height was dependent on IQ? No. I showed that traits can be genetic, heritable, and influenced by environmental factors. You did not disprove what I said.
>>57907922
Seriously i'm done with him that was just to much
>>57907890
Striga, Quelea and the drying effects of the Sahara are African specific anon.
Your baiting is low quality.
>>57907915
There was no scarcity but having the advantage is vital at all costs.
>>57907863
Piss poor in resources. Take into account that some resources were found after colonization or were not useful at that time.
>>57907966
What advantage? If you can just get resources anywhere else,and not having to maintain a huge fleet,colonial burocracy or an army thousands of Kms from your mainland? Sweden developed the most during the XIX century and had no colonies. They just bought resources cheaply because they kept their markets open.
>>57907939
So then why do people living in conditions comparable to those in the worst of Africa (India, Afghanistan, etc) have higher IQs than Africans?
>>57907969
Super cheap Labour was a thing and a lot of resources the natives used gave a big hint of what to be found.
>>57907958
No one lives in the Sahara aside from a few nomads and every place on earth has unique pestilence and climactic problems for agriculture
>>57908028
Stop shitting the goalposts. My comment was about how heritable and genetic traits are not mutually exclusive with being effected by the environment. Are you going to admit you were wrong? Or are you going to continue shifting the goalposts?
>>57907758
Did i make that claim?
>>57908051
>Super cheap Labour was a thing and a lot of resources the natives used gave a big hint of what to be found.
The labour was cheap without colonization.Africans didn't have good wages before Europeans came.Local warlords would have enslaved the local population to extract resources.
It's very apparent that they have thousands of years of shit culture.
>>57908024
Because Sweden had to buy it from you.
All those non colony owning countries still got access to those things because they could obtain them from a Euro power.
Remember at the time it was considered a worthwhile venture to dominate foreign lands across the world bend them.to your economic will or gain access to resources. Many reasons to justify it were many to make the ventures appealing to the common man.
>>57908070
I'm not shifting the goal posts
You posited essentially that low IQ amongst Africans can be explained by environmental factors and I countered with evidence showing that people from different parts of the world who live in similar conditions still have higher IQs
This is fully inline with the parameters that you set
>>57908137
They could buy it from anywhere with a market, from South America;the US or European countries, they just accessed to resources cheaply through low tariffs and a free market. Colonialism was mostly about prestige than about profit in most cases.
>>57908178
Your "proof" was a comment you made without any source as proof that cold climate = higher IQ.
>>57908178
Are you using Richard Lynns data
>>57908060
The climatic effects of the Sahara creates micro and macro climates of the Sahel which itself is a region that has pulsated back and forth to varying degrees for thousands of years
The very event which brought about the intensification of domestication was the drying of the Sahara which by magnitude was the most drastic dessication event in the past 10K years.
Red Billed Quelea alone having upwards of 10 billion in numbers live in the savanna regions such as the Sahel where for most of history they ravaged crops.
People use heavy pesticide and dynamites something that didn't exist anywhere until quite recently.
There is no equivalent.
Striga also has no parallel in agricultural systems in the world.
>>57907345
Africans have no genuine large scale identity, their cultural distinctions are typically barbaric in style, and need widespread reforms. That would allow for tribal protections and creating a metropolitan African culture, one which is more compatible with civilization. As well, resources could be coordinated, commerce properly brokered, centralized powers with enough accountability that things could get done instead of small scale corrupt idiots, and the ability to bring the best together to make enclaves of success and let them grow.
Africa remains savage and needs civilizing. The EU is composed of civilized people with distinct complex identities. There is a huge fucking difference and you're either delusional or stupid for comparing them.
>>57908261
Just look at the places with the highest IQs
Look at where the vast majority of groundbreaking scientific work and leaps in understanding have come from
You will see Northern Europe and Japan and Korea and their diaspora populations
All experience harsh winters that require a degree of reasoning to survive that is simply unnecessary in warmer climates
>>57908280
Genuine autism.
>>57908398
Russia is poorer and way more violent than southern Europe. You've done absolutely nothing to prove correlation = causation. Hitler and Stalin bad mustaches, do mustaches cause genocide?
>>57908274
You have similar variations caused by the great desert in South America yet their pre Colombian civilizations were able to develop widespread agriculture
They also did not have cattle like Africa did
Their only usable animals were the llama and alpaca which are not even close to cattle in terms of work ability and food stuffs
>>57908454
Russia has produced a great deal of scientific and cultural achievement and genocides have been happening all over the globe since humans first arose
>>57908513
The vast majority of Russians were peasants until the 1900s. Southern Europe was more developed for a lot longer than Russia.
>>57908468
Not him, but agriculture in the Americas came from mesoamerica and the coast of what is now Peru (they actually started farming cotton to make nets to catch fish there, not food crops!). Neither of those are like the Sahel.
>>57907345
Super states are retarded but confederations/unions of states such as the US or Australia can be quite successful even if the states themselves are culturally different.
>>57908399
Nigger, I've got three degrees and specifically studied Africa and her colonization on the side. If you think Africa is in any way advanced or modernized in terms of civility and culture then you're a troll or delusional.
>>57908589
The Atacama Desert still causes massive fluctuations such as those that the Sahara does to the Sahel and the Inca did farm food crops and stored them for times of hardship and in fact produced enough surplus to export it to other civilizations in the greater region
>>57908647
> I've got three degrees
That's nice
>>57902768
Colonisation, lack of domesticated animals, rampant corruption and us vs them mentality.
>>57908666
They also had the advantage of having the potato, which is extremely resilient to bad weather. It became popular in cold Europe because of that. Also the Inca empire only came around in the 1430s, they didn't invent hardly anything, they built on everyone who came before and combined their knowledge with other people they conquered.
>>57908715
You don't know what you're talking about. This all applies to South America but they still achieved semi-civilization.
>>57908718
Africans had/have sorghum which is equally renown as the potato for its resistance to blight and climactic shift
And unlike the inca who were able to build on previous civilization and learn from others, the Africans have been shown to be unable to learn from the Europeans and build on what they left there
>>57908928
I can tell you haven't read much about African history. Several African kingdoms, such as Dahomey, invited European missionaries to educate their people. Christianity spread in Africa because the church was often the only way to get an education. West Africa benefitted a lot from the trans Saharan trade with North Africans. Literacy first came to West Africa through Muslims trying to proselytize. A lot of West Africa is Muslim because they wanted to become literate. Africa went from fuedalism to capitalism relatively fast because of the influence of non-Africans. They've definitely learned from other peoples just as much as native Americans did.
>>57908468
False equivalency.
Mesoamerican agricultural development occurred in the subtropics before spreading northward in already arid regions concentrating on the few riverine lowlands with aridity ending a couple marginal cultural complexes.
Further south in the Andes the aridity of the coast was not consequential due to altitude related climatic conditions that allowed agricultural exchange under much shorter distances.
It also must be said that Quinoa and potatoes highland crops never were drought tolerant in the ways Sahelian crops were seeing that these were cool and cold arid and semi arid regions that developed using elevation to their advantage.
Cattle and cattle herding in the Sahel functioned differently than camelids in Latin America for a number of reasons.
Nice try though, I appreciate the half effort.
>>57908666
The Atacama is one of the world's oldest deserts it's a false equivalency and it's aridity did not induce highland agricultural development in the same way as the saharan pump.
>>57908858
They were less colonised than Africa, and hadn't their borders arbitrary drawn.
>>57902860
>Jared Diamond
No
>>57904398
It's flawed. Read 'Why nations fail'
>>57911095
Africa is savage because they don't have borders? You're dumb.
Chicken poo
lol
north afica has a pretty great history desu
It's actually made major improvements in the late 20/early 21 centuries, the myth that all of Africa is as bad as Chad or Sudan is a ploy to get more white-guilt bucks
>>57914373
dis
Africa's on the up and up in a lot of countries. Just look at Botswana. Probably one of the biggest success stories ever in terms of how its government was run.
>Poorest country in the world post-colonialism in the late 60's
>Brits high-tail it out, leaving uneducated dirt-poor population
>Population looks at neighbors to see what not to do
>Capital city literally strategically planned to be optimal
>Parties based on ideas about how to improve Botswana rather than ideologies
>Mixed capitalist and socialist policies that target issues Botswana has
>Huge focus on developing financial sector, free higher education anywhere in the world for youths learning complex skills/knowledge
>Government transparency superior to South Korea's
>Huge success with attracting foreign investment
They literally went from a complete shithole to a middle-income country in ~40 years with very little investment or intervention.
>>57907054
>somalians
>moving to sweden
>expected to assimilate
it's like their complete antithesis
>>57907480
>>57907312
>>57907668
Taming =/= domestication. Certain species can be tamed on an individual level, but can't really be domesticated. An animal must be able to breed in a relatively small space to be domesticated, horse domestication was a fluke performed by the ponto-caspian steppe peoples and no other region with native equestrians actually managed to tame them. Furthermore, if animals are ill-tempered (like Zebras are), you can't tame herds of them because while small numbers may listen to you, they become too unruly when in a herd.
>>57902768
They never had a civilization of their own.
>>57902768
>Went
Learn English Carlos, it's Is
>>57902860
someone post that image disproving le jared diamond's shitty book
>>57905831
>white people manipulated it and raped the resources for a long time
oh ffs, people have been raping people and resources off each other for a long time before imperlaism arrived to africa. africa colonization lasted about century and a half, thats nothing. european countries colonized and raped each other, adn it just got better.
maybe the real answer is that no african culture is progress oriented. the reason for that, i dont know, maybe its low iq, maybe its abundance of resources (doubtful). but they traded plenty with india, and the mideast. there were also animals to domesticate. sorry libtards
So is this 200 posts of colonial apologism or what?
>>57917473
>They literally went from a complete shithole to a middle-income country
It went from a complete shithole to a nicer shithole.
>>57905831
>No infrastructure
I don't think so Tim, the real problem with Africa is the West trying to force western ideals and systems on people that have a different culture and mindset.
ALGERIA IS IN THE HOUSE
GUESS WHAT TIME IT IS LADS ?
who let the american in here ? make him go
>>57929821
i really really really like this picture
>went wrong
nothing 'went' wrong. it was shit from the very start
and the environment, ecology and subsequent cultures that derived from it were guaranteed to perpetuate said shitiness
even Gandhi had nothing but vitriolic things to say about blacks in SA during his tenure there ... and he is a Poo In The Loo ascendant
This topic is still up?
>>57934529
Actually he later sympathisized with the blacks after her nearly got lynched by whites several times and went to prison.
>>57926425
What are you trying to get at?
