This triggers the Russian.
yдaлить этo!!!!!!!
Why?
>>57600685
I guess you are too young.
>>57600719
I'm over 30. What's wrong with Gorbie? He brought freedom.
>>57600845
>Russia
>freedom
>pick one
Gorbachev apparently wanted to copy Dubcek's "Socialism With A Human Face" and thought that Moscow's suppression of the Prague Spring was a mistake.
>>57600940
Eh, it's getting better. You can drive a BMW and masturbate to MLP porn now. That's something.
>>57600472
Ублюдoк, мaть твoю, a нy иди cюдa, гoвнo coбaчьe, a нy peшил кo мнe лeзть, ты... зacpaнeц вoнючий, мaть твoю. A?! нy иди cюдa, пoпpoбyй мeня тpaхнyть, я тeбя caм тpaхнy yблюдoк, aнoниcт чepтoв, бyдь ты пpoклят, иди идиoт, тpaхaть тeбя зa cвoю ceмью, гoвнo coбaчьe, жлoб вoнючий, дepьмo, cyкa, пaдлa, иди cюдa мepзaвeц, нeгoдяй, гaд, иди cюдa ты гoвнo, жoпa!
>>57600955
He could be likened to previous reform-minded autocrats like Louis XVI and Nicholas II who ended up with a situation that spiraled completely out of control and ended in their deaths.
>>57600845
He brought some very nice prostitutes to Brazil.
Till 92, all we had were German prostitutes from Rio Grande do Sul and Santa Catarina, then after 92, thousands of Ukrainian, Croatian, Russian, Slovenian, Romanian prostitutes came to Brazil to jerk our dicks for our cash.
>>57601912
I'm not sure Nick ever actually was a reformer. He did ok the creation of a parliament in 1906, but only to shut up the political protesters who emerged following the war with Japan and he always regarded it with mistrust.
>>57602107
You're correct. Aside from a few vague ideas about the Church, there was nothing "liberal" or "reform minded" about Nicholas II and he tried everything possible to clip the Duma's wings.
It's been a long time since I read up on it, but I seem to remember that Nicholas II made a promise to respect civil liberties after the 1905 uprisings, but he never actually meant it and really wanted to be an absolute monarch all along.
Louis XVI I'm a little less familiar with...
Nicholas II? Fuck no, he wasn't "reform-minded". His problem was that he believed in autocracy but he was far too weak to actually be an autocrat. Alexander I and Alexander II were the liberal reformers, Nicholas I and Alexander III being the tough-guy autocrats, and Nicholas II was the worst of both worlds.
>>57601183
You'd probably be able to do that if you were a communist party member's son. Just look at all the crazy shit Chinese kids get themselves into.
Fun fact: Gorbachev decided that they were going to "democratize" the Soviet political system by allowing opposition parties to exist, however it was really just a ruse. The first opposition party registered was the Liberal Democratic Party headed by KGB agent Alexander Zhirinovsky who's job was to say completely insane stuff like "We're going to invade Alaska - the bombs start dropping in 5 minutes." and "We're going to set up giant fans to blow the fallout from Chernobyl onto Germany." and anti-Semitic rants despite his being half-Jewish. The entire point of the exercise being to justify the CPSU's existence by making opposition parties seem totally batshit insane.
The problem was that after the collapse of the USSR, the LDP continued to exist and actually won a majority of seats in the Duma in 1993! Of course since they're just a fake party, they never had any intention of actually following through on their platform, however Zhirinovsky continues to collect a Duma rep's salary and make insane rants to this day.
>>57603280
Also, Zhirinovsky endorsed Pat Buchanan in his 90s presidential runs. Buchanan, who is known to be a bit uncomfortably sympathetic to Nazism, rejected the endorsement.
>>57601999
He had nothing to do with Gaidar reforms.
As far as I can tell, Gorby wanted a democratic socialism like Sweden but it all kind of got away from him. Also after 1991, the US sent a couple of Harvard economics professors to advise Yeltsin on the wonders of free market capitalism, which is the same thing they did in Pinochet's Chile, but with far less success. It ended in a handful of bandits stealing everything that wasn't nailed down while babushkas ended up freezing to death in the streets.
>>57603509
It's not well reported in the American press because nobody wanted to admit that those Ivy League professors who were given the full blessing of the US government were making a huge mistake and also there was this almost kind of naive, unrealistic notion of a Russia with multiparty democracy and laisse-faire capitalism that had little correspondence with Russian reality.
For a long time Matt Taibbi and Mark Ames at The Exile newspaper in Moscow were the only reporters who seemed to be aware of what was really happening compared to the established line in the American press at the time (remembering as well that the 90s was before Internet news sites really existed and CNN and the New York Times still largely had a monopoly).
I don't know if I still have it, but at one point I had a Soviet textbook on how to deal with capitalists for business purposes (it was from 1990). It was, naturally, almost all in Russian, but there were a few examples of letters one could write and those were in English. It's hard to describe, exactly, what was wrong with them, but the phrasing and grammar was never 100% "right," even when they were technically correct. It almost felt like an alien landing on Earth and attempting to blend in with the locals.
I'm not kidding. Russians at that time barely had the faintest clue of how free market economics work. They didn't know anything except the Uncle Moneybags capitalists in the propaganda. With that, it's not hard to see what went horribly wrong in the 90s.
>>57603967
A few Russians understood it perfectly well.
The failures that occured in the 90's were mostly political in nature, as well as shock therapy being applied at too drastic an amount.
Tbh, Yeltsin was honestly a shitty president and his "democratic" government was worse.
Hence why so many Russians still support Putin's system.
Did you know that when 9/11 happened, the CIA found to their chagrin that almost all of their training programs for agents were still centered around learning how to speak Russian. They had to frantically set up Arabic language classes in the aftermath of 9/11 and well, I guess now 15 years after the fact pretty much everyone at the CIA and NSA knows Arabic like the back of their hand.
>>57604074
>Hence why so many Russians still support Putin's system
Maybe in 2005. If you actually read 2ch and vk, Putin is now pretty much seen as Nero fiddling while Rome burns. Russian anons on /int/ have said that most people are real tired of the guy by now. He's outlived his shelf life by at least 8 years.
>>57604137
>2ch
>Russian public opinion, let alone support
Okay senpai
>>57604137
>2ch says
Levada Center and their independent polling disagrees.
>>57604137
>If you actually read 2ch and vk
>if you read these two websites filled with teenagers who want to live the Los Angeles or New York life, you will that a country with 140 million people where more than half don't even use social networks hate their own leader who won the latest election by an overwheming majority
Russian teenagers think all Americans live in Beverly hill mansions and don't have to work
>>57604274
>working in america
>not living on a welfare
CMON NIGGA
>all these Americans itt
CIA, is it you?
>>57604157
>>57604234
>>57604274
He's right. Putin is here just because he is ssen as a lesser evil.
>>57604274
Isn't the largest demographic in Russia nostalgic babushkas?
>>57604340
Dude, it's like 6:00 AM over there. Of course there's not many Ivans online now.
>>57604340
FSB
>>57604098
I think there's a case to be made that we would get along pretty OK if the CIA were dissolved. They have fucked up everything they touched six ways from Sunday, from Central America to South America to overthrowing a democratically elected government in Iran to helping get us into Vietnam. They also failed to stop bin Laden. As far as accomplishments go...well, they found bin Laden.
>>57604399
Also dissolved the A.Q. Khan nuclear network after 9/11, played a major role in eradicating Al Qaeda's base in Afghanistan, have decimated Al Qaeda's top leadership. Yes those leaders have been replaced but Al Qaeda's "best and brightest" are dead. CIA also helped eradicate Libya's WMD program and have disrupted numerous mass casualty attacks after 9/11. No one ever gives credit for prevention because someone will always claim that the hypothetical attack was never going to happen in the first place.
>>57604424
>have decimated Al Qaeda's top leadership
Oh goody, there's no terrorism anymore and ISIS is just a product of my imagination.
>>57604379
Americans having intelligent conversation about Russia trigger me desu.
I'm calling KGB.
>>57604445
Are you joking or is that actually your metric for success?
>>57604660
As you say yourself,
>Yes those leaders have been replaced
Libya's WMD program was probably about as much of a threat to us as Iraq's was. Odd how, IDK, Canada or Japan or Spain don't seem to need to worry about a "Libyan WMD program" but the United States, we need the CIA on the case.
>>57604693
Yes, it is a danger. Libya and Iraq were two of the biggest state sponsors of terror in the world. There was little worry about Libya directly attacking the United States but instead transferring dangerous materials to proxies. Also, look up the Lockerbie bombing. If the Libyan government had stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, it would have used them during the Libyan revolution. Imagine trying to secure them after Qaddafi fell. Other countries are concerned about terror but none have the capability and reach of the United States. I also noted that Al Qaeda's new leaders have a significantly crippled ability to launch major attacks against the United States to the credit of the CIA. No government could function by your standards.
Dude, most Republicans don't even defend the Iraq War anymore. Are you Donald Rumsfeld?
>>57604818
How is pointing out that Iraq was a major state sponsor of terror defending the Iraq war? North Korea and Iran are also major state sponsors of terror and I'm not advocating military conflict, merely pointing out some of the CIA successes post 9/11.
>>57604897
Iraq and Libya were on the State Department list of state sponsors of terror but it's a stretch to say they were "among the biggest state sponsors of terror". That list was always kind of stupid. North Korea is on there for backing the Japanese Red Army which hasn't done an attack in more than 30 years. Saudi Arabia ISN'T on that list. Libya was about to be taken off or already was taken off even before the revolution.
>>57604945
Libya was taken off precisely because it dismantled its WMD program which is something the CIA and Bush White House legitimately deserves credit for. North Korea isn't on there merely because it backed the JRA but also because it's engaged extensively in nuclear proliferation and likely aided the Syrians in building a nuclear reactor. Saddam had had an extensive WMD program that surprised CIA inspectors after the first Gulf War by how far along it was. He also actually used chemical weapons when he gassed the Kurds.
There's a great book called Revolution 1989 which talks about how GHW Bush completely lacked the chemistry with Gorbachev that Reagan had had and was left completely befuddled as the communist edifice crumbled around him. He was afraid of Solidarity taking power in Poland and also urged the Baltic states to not be so rash as seek independence from the USSR.
Bush's remarks on the fall of the Berlin Wall were hilariously foot-in-the-mouth, as were pretty much every public statement he made about the fall of communism.
>>57605192
That comes with being a CIA guy; the intelligence community and the military-industrial sector never really wanted the Cold War to end because they needed some enemy to justify their existence/budget. Thank god for Osama; he was the best friend the CIA could have had.
The August 91 coup was a tense couple of days certainly. Nobody could know for sure what was going to happen, if hardliners had succeeded in retaking the reigns of power, or if Russia would collapse into anarchy ala 1917. In any case, it could have ended very, very badly yet amounted ultimately to nothing.
Hey, it's Gorby's fault. How the hell could anyone be so naive as to assume we wouldn't expand into the Baltics the moment the Soviets got out?
The Afghanistan War proved that the Soviet army was not as invincible as it seemed, also that Soviet strategic planning was not as good as it seemed. And then of course the Solidarity uprising in Poland in 1980-81. The cracks in the system were becoming apparent for some time before the Berlin Wall fell.
>>57605455
I don't think anyone could have predicted that by 1991, the US would go into a war with Iraq and Moscow stands idly by and does nothing. The final collapse came much faster than anyone imagined.
>>57605455
The Afghan War is often described as Moscow's Vietnam, although the two wars were still quite dissimilar in many ways.
True story: I did a project about the depiction of Arabs in media, and an old piece from the 80s criticized Best Defense thusly: Iraq would never invade Kuwait, they were allies against Iran.
>>57605546
In all fairness, I don't see why anyone was surprised by the invasion by Iraq of Kuwait especially since Baghdad had had territorial designs on Kuwait for quite some time; they'd threatened to invade them back in 1961 and got into a border clash 12 years after that.
Saddam's alliance with the US against Iran was a matter of convenience more than anything just like our alliance with Stalin against Nazi Germany.
>>57605612
I had a college professor who thought that Saddam was unfairly tarbrushed, he said that Kuwait was slant-drilling into Iraqi territory which constituted an act of war, also the Kuwaiti government, an absolute monarchy nearly as repressive as the Saudis, was hardly the paragon of democracy and freedom we claimed it to be.
My point about Afghanistan is that the Soviets totally miscalculated the effectiveness of a military invasion for the purpose of extending their influence there. That shows that they didn't understand the situation on the ground nor anything about the culture of the people they were trying to subjugate.
Solidarity was only a relatively brief episode in the early 80s, but it undoubtedly had a ripple effect for the rest of the decade because if communism was the workers' paradise, then why would the workers go on strike and form a labor union?
The other thing is that a number of voices in the Kremlin were not cool on the entire idea of the Afghan intervention but in the end decided as a matter of pride that they had to save a fellow communist state.
>>57604355
Thanks for the source you provide.
Levada center shows 81% support for Putin. It fell from 87% in September.
Higher than the 60% in late 2012. Maybe he's seen that way, but the effect is the same.
I trust the polls more than a few english-speaking Russians on 4chan.
There's already been a proxy shill Russian preaching CIA propaganda for a month.
>>57604660
>look at all this success against terrorism!!!
Pic related
>>57604766
>as long as the terrorism only happens in San Bernadino, Fort Worth, and Chattanoogs it's okay!!! Success!!! Ignore all the terror attacks across Europe!!!
Terrorism casualties are up 700% since 2001 (9-11 included).
Supposedly, as plans for the invasion were being drafted during 1979, Andropov and Gromyko were very much against the war, but ultimately backed down and gave Brezhnev their approval.
Moscow's confidence was raised by the fact that they knew the US was unlikely to react in any significant way. We were still suffering post-Vietnam hangover and the US military was weak and demoralized. On the other hand, the invasion of Afghanistan backfired on the Soviets as it simply reinforced existing US fears of Moscow being an aggressive expansion-bent superpower and how detente was a crock. Carter had just witnessed the Senate reject SALT II and this then paved the way for the massive surge in defense spending that Reagan launched.
>>57605455
No one thought the Soviets were invincible.
If the Soviets really wanted to, they could have fully occupied Afghanistan and ethnically cleansed the population.
They were trying to do something very similar to what we are currently, and help the "government" fight the "freedom fighters".
>>57605763
If they let the pro-Soviet government fall, it would be an embarassment on the lines of South Vietnam. Many pro-Soviet regimes across the world would abandon them.
Hence they fought, however ill-concieved it seems in hindsight.
>>57605825
>Higher than the 60% in late 2012
Crimea
>>57604074
Using public opinion as a metric of success for a leader in an open political system isn't comparable to one where any opposition is both quashed and demonized in the public sphere by all power in the state.
Nobody knows the numbers of approval for Kim Jong, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was actually quite high.
Please stop replying to your own thread.
The IP count shows. You're the neocon who has been posting here since January, and it's honestly pathetic.
>>57605763
>>57605524
This is true, but as I always understood it, the main reason we performed poorly in Vietnam was that all our equipment and tactical doctrine was geared towards a conflict in Europe with the Warsaw Pact, which ironically is exactly what happened to the Red Army. They were ill-prepared for the rugged Afghan mountainscape.
The lesson ought to be that fighting a WWII-style conflict with aircraft and massed tanks doesn't work well in a situation where the locals have centuries of experience in irregular warfare.
>>57606056
You've seen one major protest against the Russian regime since 2000.
NK has had three near collapses since then.
Dismissing Putin's popularity as a product of the authoritarian system ignores the fact Yeltsin had a similar system (he created it in 95), but was far less popular.
>>57606109
We didn't fight effectively in Vietnam because the goal was to make the Vietnamese love us and ally with us, and they didn't want to.
>>57606109
And who are armed and heavily trained by Western arms, funding, and Paki/CIA operatives.
If the Soviets were going up against illiterate farmers with minor support, it'd look a lot like their current successful intervention in Syria.
>>57606151
It wasn't that the fighting of US troops wasn't effective, it was that the policy behind our intervention was screwed from the start: the South Vietnamese government was corrupt and ineffectual, and the North Vietnamese were strong and well-organized. Even if the US had achieved a total military victory, how long would it have lasted if we did not occupy Vietnam for 40 years? When your enemy is prepared to lose 10 soldiers to every one of yours, and the ostensible cause for which you are fighting is a charade, it doesn't take a psychic to see how things are going to turn out.
>>57606151
You mean the SVA regime was corrupt, broken, ideologically bankrupt, an American pawn, run by idiots, and finally in control of a completely disillusioned military.
It was a failure of American foreign policy. Not so much our military capability.
Why russians hate him? he had absolute power and made democratic reforms... he is a hero
>>57606167
And surprise, surprise. The NVA was armed and trained by Soviet arms, funding, and KGB operatives.
>>57606215
>Gorbachev
>Absolute power
>democratic reforms
Are you this fucking retarded?
>>57606209
The real mistake was when Kennedy had a fit of liberal guilt and had the CIA depose Diem as an authoritarian dictator that made us look bad, except the guys who came after him were not only dictators, but phenomenally corrupt and incompetent ones at that. Even Ho Chi Minh was baffled as to why we would remove Diem.
>>57606216
They were proxy wars.
I simply pointed out a very important omission you made. If you make that mistake your motives are suspect.
The US effort in Vietnam failed for a whole complex of reasons, but the one major commonality with Afghanistan was that both us and the Soviets had equipment and tactics designed around fighting in Germany and Poland, all of which was rendered moot by the jungles of SE Asia and the mountains of Afghanistan.
>>57606249
>don't dispose the genocidal lunatic pawn of America
Great fucking plan.
This guy wasn't a semi-redeemable Assad. He as a raving lunatic who made SV and America look like shit.
Where we failed was influencing and picking a decent successor. Instead we fucked that up and SV remained incompetent and corrupt.
Source for HoChi saying that?
>>57605489
>The final collapse came much faster than anyone imagined
That it did. Even as late as 1988-89, the idea of the Soviet Union actually ceasing to exist, let alone in the next three years, was almost comical. The most cutting-edge books at the time such as Paul Kennedy's "The Rise and Fall of Great Powers" never once made the assertion that a world without a USSR would happen in our lifetime.
>>57600685
>>57600845
>>57603462
>>57604355
>>57604454
Hi fag Churka)))))))))))))))))))
>>57606356
I read the new biography of Stalin by Stephen Kotkin, which really isn't a bio of Stalin so much as it's a history of Russia from his POV, but anyway, and one interesting point he made was that the creation of the "Soviet Union" was Lenin's idea. Nicholas II had ruled Belarus and the Baltics and Ukraine along with the Russian homeland under the umbrella of "Russia" and it was a political whole, but Lenin chose to make his state a confederation, with the idea that the rest of Europe would join his confederation after they all went commie. The end result was that Ukraine and Belarus and whatnot, still existing as political entities, found it easy to dissolve the Soviet Union in 1991.
>>57606395
Interesting; I remember reading a review of a biography of Beria (never read the actual book) which suggested that Beria, being from the Caucasus like his boss, made a point of championing certain kinds of minority rights, at least those from his own minority. This had an echo in Alan Furst's novel Dark Star, in which the various factions within the NKVD are at deadly loggerheads, one of them being the Georgian/Armenian/Caucasian khvost (as opposed to the other main khvost being the Ukrainian/Polish/Baltic one--this one heavily Jewish as it coincided with the former Pale of Settlement). I'll have to read that Kotkin book; sounds good.
>>57606370
why churka?
>>57600472
Who?
It seems like one American guy is replying to himself in this thread.
>>57606437
>>57606421
Kotkin's book is actually pretty dry, although it purports to be a bio of Stalin, it really doesn't mention much about his background and life at all while it instead does things like devote an entire fucking chapter to how Mongolia became a Soviet satellite in 1921, something Stalin had fuck-all to do with.
It is however a pretty interesting book about the pre-WWII Soviet state, especially in how it mentions that peasants had no interest in collectivized agriculture, so Stalin figured "If they won't do it voluntarily, by Jove we'll just have to kill them and take all their crops." Also goes into how Trotsky was a political neophyte and that Stalin just totally outsmarted and outmaneuvered him at every turn.
>>57606486
Who?
Also worth noting the collapse of the Soviet Union and the collapse of Communist rule were two different things. While both were unthinkable in the 80s, in retrospect, its totally possible there would have been a democratic USSR or a Communist ruled independent Russia in a slightly different world. It's even more amazing that both institutions, the government and the party, came down at the same time.
>>57606532
Even a totalitarian government can only feign prosperity for so long. When you're announcing record wheat crops to the world every year but there's no bread for people to eat, something eventually has to give. The internal resources ran out at the same time as those used to influence the satellite nations.
>>57606395
>one interesting point he made
That's one of the main points why Russian right-wingers hate ussr
Well, Gorby was very popular in the US and Europe at the time. It was easy to believe that Brezhnev, or his rapidly dying elderly successors Gromyko and Andropov, would start WWIII, but not so much that funny spot-headed guy. Even Ronald Reagan liked Gorby.
>>57606573
I know; Soviet ideology ended up raising minorities to a higher status than ethnic Russians with the result that the churka/Tatar population is ballooning as Russians are disappearing.
>>57606573
right wingers in russia are massive cucks
>>57606698
are you that annoying Russian anon from Mexico?
>>57606751
yo ni de pedo soy ruso
salu2
>>57606638
>>57606573
Never forget the immortal words of Anastas Mikoyan: "I am not Russian, I'm Armenian and proud of it. Comrade Stalin is not Russian either. To hell with Russians!"
>>57606806
>search the quote in wikipedia
>search the source
>it was published in an US newspaper during mcartyist era
>>57605825
I explained you why people tell they support Putin. Not because they like him. He forced many things we hate during his pro-vestern time and then when he turned full anti-werstern.
>>57606427
This Mexican is a crazy commieboo. He calls everyone who isn't turbo 20s propaganda victim a churka.
>>57606872
>2016
>commieboo
eww
fag churka, is the only cool self-hate russian, the rest like >>57606913 can die
>>57606607
This is a good point when you compare Gorbachev to his immediate predecessors. Brezhnev looked like a slightly goofy guy with a giant unibrow, yet still pretty humorless and committed to communism. Andropov, the former head of the KGB, was considered legitimately scary and likely to start World War III at any moment. Chernenko was so short-lived that I doubt most Westerners had any time to form an opinion of him, but it likely would have been more of the same.
So along comes Gorby, a younger, more sprightly-looking guy who seems genuinely well-meaning and eager to fix the Soviet system and then he and Reagan have annual summit meetings on some very heavy topics while no Soviet head of state had met with an American president for over five years prior to the first Reagan-Gorbachev meeting in Geneva in late 85, and you can see why for once America and Europe thought at last things might be changing for the better and the days of duck-and-cover exercises may be behind us.
>>57606952
I do agree, Gorbachev seemed genuinely lovable compared to the guys who came before him.
>>57606860
I have Mikoyan's book but it looks too boring to read.
>>57607017
Eh, I guess Khrushchev had that quality to an extent yet on the downside it was hard to forget what he did in Hungary in '56 and also his drunken rants about blowing the West up in a nuclear war. And his obsession with trying to eradicate religion from the Soviet Union.
Ggg
How do I shitpost in this thread to trigger everyone?
>>57606356
No one guessed that it was all going to come down but Gorbachev was certainly seen as a new sort of leader. He became immensely popular in the West even as his own people started to hate him.
Holomodor
>>57607093
say good things about Hillary Clinton
>>57600472
uuh, why?
What is this thread? What the fuck? Stop it
>>57607095
>>57606356
I think most Americans back then really did believe the Hollywood image of Russians being James Bond villains who were going to invade the West and fry our butts at a moment's notice.
It's no different than the retards who said in the Gulf War that "Saddam Hussein has the world's fourth largest army this war is suicide Saddam's Republican Guards are fanatics, these guys will completely shred our troops and there's nothing we can do to stop them."
>>57607093
Зaкoпипacть пpo тo, кaк CCCP нec цивилизaцию, шкoлы, бoльницы, элeктpocтaнции, и жди пpибaлтoв.
They still do this through Russia Today.
>>57607195
But geez, RT broadcasts look so low-budget and amateurish. You think Putin would have a more professional-looking propaganda outfit.
>>57607195
i know this is off-topic
but i hope MR. trump becomes the next president of the US......because you guys need your own putin
>>57601183
>Putain walks the animal farm arc
seriously, they recently announced some set of really fucked up reforms to National Guard policies - there will be 400k of units (nearly half of rus.army) that directly respond to a president and will be responsible for suppressing "extremism and terrorism" (which is a code for fuckin up any nation's riot, in case if they are too much displeased with administration impotency to hide the budget funds theft)
And, honestly, i have no right to bitch about it - russian nation gets trully what it deserves with their lack of incentive to impeach the rulers they're not happy with.
See you in the otherworld some time
>>57604274
I'm pretty sure Russian society knows of America as being better than the Soviet Union in every way since the 1960s. I mean, American Sector Radio (RAS) was the most popular radio station amongst Soviet conscripts in Eastern Germany, especially when RAS had much better German language lessons in Russian than the East German and Russian stations.
And Russia has a history of being a hardcore nerds for their enemies. I mean, Russian Imperial society were still huge fans of French society and culture despite waging war against Napoleon. I'm pretty sure the Soviet Union treated American culture just like how Imperial Russia treated French culture.
>>57607217
Will they interfere in fapping to MLP porn?
>>57607265
nah, MLP is of the least concerns of Kremlin as of now.
Panama's offshore accounts discovery and VneshEconomBank external debt are of the highest priority right now
>>57607288
>Panama's offshore accounts discovery
which are directly linked to president's closest persons, mind you
>>57607259
In 1917, 80% of Russians were illiterate peasants.
By 1957, thanks to having gotten ahold of German V-2 missiles, the Soviets were able to launch Sputnik. Think about that - from ox carts to satellites in orbit in just 40 years.
By 1977, they were reduced to committing industrial espionage for each and every technological advance and farms couldn't get their harvest to market because there were no working trucks to move it and hardly any paved roads.
>>57607288
It's what you would call bread-and-circuses. The more preoccupied you are with fapping to cartoon horses, the less likely you are to pay attention to oligarchs stealing everything that isn't nailed down.
>>57607109
I don't know any.
>>57607317
it really is a roller-coaster of these progression spikes in very short periods of time.
Mind you, Russland is not a unique in that regard - just thing about the Japs, which were nothing more than culturally enriched village just 70 years ago. Then they kinda sprouted into world-wide financial and technological innovations think tank.
>>57607317
I took Russian history for a semester back in college, and it's just crazy at how ass backwards it keeps going even till today.
>>57607369
Russia is a country that is huge as all fuck, and at the same time Putin is no Deng Xiaoping.
Russia is a country that should have had China's population, whereas China is a country that should have had Russia's population.
>>57607317
>thanks to having gotten ahold of German V-2 missiles
Nope, we successfully developed stuff before the war.
>>57607341
of course, keep the mob's mind busy, and they will thank you for it
>>57607259
> I'm pretty sure the Soviet Union treated American culture just like how Imperial Russia treated French culture
I'd say it was German culture, before and after WW2
Russianks knew very little about the US before the USSR dismantling. By now, it's US culture, though. But, since Russians have been learning about it when USSR was not around, they compare the real US to the perfect picture they had of the US before.
>>57607401
I suspect that Russia maybe could have had China's population if Stalin hadn't kept starving entire nations to death.
>>57607369
> I took Russian history for a semester back in college, and it's just crazy at how ass backwards it keeps going even till today.
was it between your gender studies classes and do you mean backwars in respect to equality?
please specify
>>57607259
>I'm pretty sure the Soviet Union treated American culture just like how Imperial Russia treated French culture.
Not really. Far from it. First, All the Europe was Frenchboo during that period. Second, we loved USA because it promoted itself good and was a fun place with fun people while Russians wanted to end socialism which was against all the good things. Your country was a symbol of changes.
>>57607403
And Robert Goddard built the first liquid-fueled rocket and was Werner Von Braun's hero. Tiddy-boom.
>>57607403
>>57607412
>>57607445
RIDF'S are coming YEAH!
>>57607317
>from ox carts
Russia was industrializing slowly before 1917. Transsib is not "ox carts", for example.
>>57607440
there was also the war, yeah
and it's well known well-educated societies tend to have less children.
My grandparents on mother's side had 7 children, 4 children of father's side, I'm the only kid. uncles and aunts also don't have more than three children per family.
>>57607440
I seem to recall hearing that only 20% of Russian males between 18 and 40 survived WWII so that caused a major, major demographic imbalance.
>>57607440
not really - women here are treated as equal as men, so-uh... Very strict control of child birth rates, implemented on individual level
Also, Stalin didn't specifically wanted to starve-off people - they just had very shit-awful researchers on agricultural level, who kept fucking up their innovations to increase the crops/sqm rate.
>>57607440
You mean if Hitler was not crazy idiot?
>>57607401
What? Brief wartime interludes aside, China has consistently been the world's most populous political entity by a good margin since the collapse of the Roman Empire. Russia has...not.
Yes, Russia has a lot of land. But it's terrible land for humans.
This is roughly like claiming that Canada should have a larger population than the US.
>>57607526
хyх?
>>57607401
So, by your logic, Australia should had at least 1 bln population by now?
You do realise, that most of the Rus territory is w/o infrastructure to live comforably in a middle of Siberia
Supposedly the British ambassador to the USSR was being driven around Moscow the week after Yuri Gagarin's space flight and they drove his car into a gas station to fill it up. The gas pumps were all broken which caused an attendant to remark "We can put a man into space, yet we can't fill up the gas tank of a car."
If any country's discussion on /int/ falls back down to geopolitical arguing - you know, that this country is in a really fucked-up state
>>57607605
That or it's a shitposting thread on 4chan
>>57607479
>r-r-Russsans only created rockets thanks to Germans! Sieg heil!
>The theory of space exploration had a solid basis in the Russian Empire before the First World War with the writings of Konstantin Tsiolkovsky (1857-1935), who published pioneering papers in the late 19th and early 20th centuries and in 1929 introduced the concept of the multistaged rocket. Practical aspects built on early experiments carried out by members of the reactive propulsion study group, GIRD (founded in 1931) in the 1920s and 1930s, where such pioneers as Sergey Korolev—who dreamed of traveling to Mars[7]:5—and the German-Russian engineer Friedrich Zander worked. On August 18, 1933, GIRD launched the first Soviet liquid-fueled rocket Gird-09,[8] and on November 25, 1933, the first hybrid-fueled rocket GIRD-X. In 1940-41 another advance in the reactive propulsion field took place: the development and serial production of the Katyusha[9] multiple rocket launcher.
>During the 1930s Soviet rocket technology was comparable to Germany's, but Joseph Stalin's Great Purge severely damaged its progress.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_space_program#Pre-war_efforts
>>57607580
can't disagree with the logic of that.
You really need to watch just a single fucking movie ("Andrey Rublev" by Tarkovsky) to understand national mentality of Russians.
They can build a space station out of fucking coca-cola cans, IF it is demanded by their ruler.
>>57607317
>In 1917, 80% of Russians were illiterate peasants.
Nice cold war brainwashing, lel. I hope you enjoy your conductive rails, synthetic rubber and helicopers: all products of Imperial education.
>>57607644
but the rest of the time - most of people are lazy or reactive to current situation, as fuck
>>57607605
>geopolitical
I agree, this word should absolutely be on bullshit-bingo paper.
And this one too:
>>57607644
>national mentality
>hurr mentality durr special snowflake
>>57607486
>>57607317
Actually Russia in the 20 years before WWI was quickly industrializing with Western investment, also the situation of the peasants was getting gradually better. And when the Bolsheviks seized power in the October Revolution, peasants were already helping themselves to manorial estates before Lenin "gave" it to them. Russia in 1914 was not quite as Stone Age as it looked, especially as Soviet propaganda loved exaggerating the country's backwardness at the time of the revolution.
In regards to Sputnik, the USSR was quite competitive with the US in most major categories including the aerospace/defense sectors, geopolitical reach, arts and culture, and things like that. Where they did greatly fall behind of course was personal liberty as well as being able to provide the masses with a decent standard of living.
As for the decline in the Brezhnev era, that was the end result of the command economy being unworkable without Stalinist terror.
>>57607681
>>hurr mentality durr special snowflak
эм, чтo, пpocтитe?
>>57607692
> Where they did greatly fall behind of course was personal liberty
and.. almost any economic metric?
>>57607475
Is it athat American who made your first rocket? You also developed engines before WWII, this meme about secret german UFO-leve engeneering is fake, that's what I'm saying. You had success in early 20s.
>>57607692
>Actually Russia in the 20 years before WWI was quickly industrializing with Western investment, also the situation of the peasants was getting gradually better.
This.
>as well as being able to provide the masses with a decent standard of living
They could in the second half. Did better that USA actually because there were no homeless or jobless people.
>>57607605
Don't take it personally - you've done much more for scientific and social progress than Canada and Greenland ever will, and that's the latitude God dealt you
>>57607847
>Did better that USA actually because there were no homeless or jobless people
On paper, no. In reality...during the preparations for the 1980 Olympics, police went around Moscow rounding up homeless people and slackers who were supposed to be at work, but who were instead lounging in restaurants, bathhouses, and movie theaters because with the large number of visiting foreigners, that looked pretty unsightly.
>>57607847
>>57607659
If you are the fag churka, just let me tell you tha you are /rus/'s best poster
>>57607921
*that you are
>>57607881
shame that we have as much enthusiastic researchers, as thieves
Speaking of the Soviets being right but for propaganda reasons, I also remember the USSR coming out in support of Native Americans. Likely because they were interested in discrediting America's whole deal about freedom and democracy, and probably because its own Asian population probably saw Native Americans as kin.
>>57607915
they still weren't nearly as easy to find as in the US.
Even now, after the disasrous 90es, Russians who visit New York all tell this homeless-living-in-cardborad-boxes stories. At least both my friends who visited the US and don't know each other both did.
still sounds crazy to the Russians
>>57607961
I have heard that East Germany (?) made a series of Westerns that had the indigenous as the protagonists.
Can't remember the name though but I can remember that I couldn't find any of the films on Youtube etc.
>>57607961
Soviet Union is one of the main reson behind a lot of nice things - 8 hour wark day, equality, European Socialism, ending of Western Imperialism etc. It's just not a popular discusison topic
>>57607981
A lot of Western Europeans were a little surprised at that as well, however it's probably because American culture doesn't have the European concept of ordnung and "Well, it's a free country we can't stop you from being homeless if you want to live that way."
Has Putin expressed any opinion on Gorby?
>>57608023
>Kek
>>57607961
politicians' mind ain't of that real big puzze: they will always find sufficiently straightforward ways to discredit their political enemies.
>>57607990
I guess:https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEFA-Indianerfilm
>>57607981
but where do all your druggies/mentally disabled live if not on the street?
>>57607961
Germans in general have a weird romantic fascination with the American West, Alaska gets lots of German and Swiss tourists every year.
I assume because in most of Western Europe, the wild wilderness is something read about in a book.
>>57607915
No, I'm talking about real things. Work and free housing were there for everybody after 60s. Only homeless would be chronical drunkards or mental people. USSR was a bad system with bad management but it did some things okay.
>>57607921
I never visit any generals.
>>57607961
Nah, just to show genocide. Nobody knew about our Asians and Indians.
>>57607961
Not really on the latter—my impression of Soviet policy towards ethnic minorities was some mixture of Russification (but you keep your native outfits and dances because they look good in ceremonies and on postage stamps) and, if you were remote or small enough, being ignored.
Plus the links between Siberia and North America are very far in the past (Siberians are doing their own thing—if there are any distant links they’re making it’s pan-Turkic or, more broadly, pan-Turanianist) and linking some Siberian and northwestern North American languages has only been cautiously accepted over the past five-ten years (and the Siberian language in question, Ket, only has 200 speakers).
>>57608067
at their homes?
there are homeless people, sure, but I don't remember last one I saw one.
>>57608122
>Only homeless would be chronical drunkards or mental people
That's basically all our homeless as well desu. The point was more that homeless drunks and criminals were not supposed to exist in the workers' paradise so you can see why police were so eager to clean up Moscow before the 80 Olympics.
>>57608080
>Germans in general have a weird romantic fascination with the American West
Everybody loved Western movies and books, not just them. Jango was so popular in Germany they called all western movies 'Jango' since then.
>>57608046
I don't know but Gorbachev thinks Putin is a disgrace
>>57608163
Of course he does, Putin doesn't bend over for the west the way Gorby did
>>57608067
At home. We don't have hobos living in boxes, they have flats.
>>57608157
It's a well-know fact.
>>57608129
Given that Japanese and Chinese barely see each other as human, I seriously doubt East Asians consider Native Americans their distant kinfolk.
On the other hand, the Soviet record towards ethnic minorities is less than edifying particularly during Stalin's time.
>>57608129
> my impression of Soviet policy
it's a wrong inpression. Soviet Academy of sciences had thousands of scientints documenting langages and culture, recording folklore, and actually doing stuff like inventing written form for indigenuous languages.
There were also no bars to minorities holding soviet or Russian positions of power. During Soviet times and now it was/is easy to find top-level official beloging to minority that numbers in a few thousands.
>>57608196
but how can druggies afford to live in a home
it's just not possible here, too expensive
>>57608129
>Russification
they had exactly the opposite, it was called korenization
>>57608212
eviction laws are very complex, if they inherited a run-down flat in a commieblock I don't think law allows eviction at almost any reason even f they don't pay shit.
since, you know, say eviction in winter would mean basically a death sentence.
That seems to be something several nations do. Like I remember hearing the Ayatollah sent a gorgeous copy of the Koran to some Cherokee kids because American Indians are oppressed by the evil Americans. Bobby Fischer, granted American, did a bizarre rant about the Jews that said something like "Kill New York City and then give the land back to the native peoples."
Relational, and maybe weirder still, is it seems like there were a few Nazis who at least claimed sympathy to American Indians. (Looking it up there was more of that then I might have thought.) Goebbels supposedly claimed the Sioux were Aryans. This links to the Karl May thing, but also the hope they could get some subversion in the US. It didn't work though I did read of a few Hopi that thought maybe Hitler was okay if he liked the swastika and hated the US government, but most of them lost interest when they learned he had other qualities.
More specific to Soviets I know in print, at least, they'd talk a good deal about lynching. I think I read a Strugatski book where a character said something like "We don't lynch people, we're not Americans."
нeчeгo нe cдeлaл хyжe чeм дpyгиe гeнceки
>>57608129
s-stop calling our natives "Siberians" plz D:
we don't call you indians "americans", you know
t. Siberian
>>57608259
And the bigger irony is that Nazi racial laws were heavily inspired by the US conquest of Native Americans and Jim Crow and that Hitler greatly admired both of those things.
>>57608300
oткyдa y тeбя интepнeт, пиздaглaз
>>57608304
Nazism was at times a pretty silly, illogical world view. Supposedly some German citizens sent in letters to Nazi officials saying "If the Jews are such a powerful, malevolent force, then we'd better be nice to them because they could fuck our shit up if they wanted to."
In the propaganda biz you use whatever weaponry is available. Stalin killed 50 million of his own people through violence and targeted starvation, the US government committed a century of open genocide against the indigenous nations that stood in their way; history's a bitch like that.
>>57608379
If you study Soviet propaganda posters, most of them are laughable but the ones on the oppression of blacks in the 50s and 60s are actually pretty powerful. Shows that even blatant propagandists can hit some home runs when the story doesn't need exaggeration.
>>57608335
Кoгдa нaши бoeвыe poбoты въeдyт в Bapшaвy, вac cнoвa coшлют в Cибиpь, кypвa.
>>57608409
Boast bix bls
>>57608379
Russia still does it to this day. During the Crimea referendum, they were calling the Ukrainian government Nazis while simultaneously inviting the Hungarian Jobbik party and the French National Front to monitor the voting. In addition support of Serbia, a radically nationalist state that's committed overt ethnic cleansing.
>>57608379
>Stalin killed 50 million
uwatmateuwatuwat
I kinda hate Stalin but his 50 million + Hitler's ~20 million would make us extinct in 20th century. And here we are still alive.
>>57608379
> In the propaganda biz you use whatever weaponry is available
yeah, like implying Stalin was a Russian and not a member of tiny minority indigenious to a small part of a tiny South Ossetian
see:
> Stalin killed 50 million of his own people
50 mililon is also an unsourced number
>>57608416
вaши? e мoe кaк cтpaшнo, apмии Oмcкa и Hoвocыбиpcкa, вceгo 5 coлдaт и пec в кacкe
>>57603967
>I'm not kidding. Russians at that time barely had the faintest clue of how free market economics work. They didn't know anything except the Uncle Moneybags capitalists in the propaganda. With that, it's not hard to see what went horribly wrong in the 90s.
If you saw the early silent-era Soviet films from the '20s where capitalists were all mustache-twirling villains with top hats, and even then the message of the film is that once they see the excellence of socialism, they will repent their sins.
>>57608476
>I kinda hate Stalin but his 50 million + Hitler's ~20 million would make us extinct in 20th century. And here we are still alive.
>>57608476
it's not fifty but it is millions, and this is excluding gladomor
ukranian genocide is on par with the holocaust, yet noone talks about it, while eeeveryone knows about the holocaust
>>57608490
Hy вce, cyкa, ты oгpeбaeшь. Бoмбapдиpoвкa oмcкими пeльмeнями c мaйoнeзикoм бyдeт тaкoй пиздopeзкoй, чтo ты пoжaлeeшь, чтo poдилcя нa cвeт.
>>57608506
>>57607412
>>57607259
Eh, that's debatable. Actually Soviet propaganda well into the 80s never let anyone forget American involvement in the civil war.
Going back to the 30s, Stalin suppressed the freewheeling Soviet culture of the NEP era which was seen as bourgeois decadence and there was a major effort made to weed out American and Western European influence in the arts and cinema.
The most famous American in Russian silent cinema is only slightly more benign: Mr. West, the ignorant businessman who assumes Russia is full of illiterate cavemen. But you also have the American capitalist villains (The Organization) in Miss Mend (1926) who want to blow up Holy Russia and Oliver MacBright, the American fat cat in The Cigarette Girl of Mosselprom (1924), etc. It was definitely a popular trope during the NEP era.
>>57608572
>gladomor
>ukranian genocide
It's still a stale cliche in Hollywood to depict Russians as the enemy but then when you have an entertainment industry still dominated by boomers and Gen Xers who are Cold War babbies, it may take a long time for this to change.
Give it 25-30 years when Millenials run Hollywood and it'll be mostly movies about Mudslimes.
>>57608572
Famine of the 30es was pretty bad yeah. But economic hardship doesn't equate to killing people in concentration camps, you know
>>57608622
>It's a everybody is guilty of war crimes except Russia episode
The Green Berets is downright bizarre. It's a big technicolor epic about Vietnam. I wrote a review of it in college--one of the things I noted was a fight scene, where a 5-man squad of NVA had only one rifle among them; they all got punched out by John Wayne. And of course, the "We're on a beach now!" ending.
>>57608704
>it's possible to plan crop disease
I guess Ireland has to sue England for potato famine
>>57608622
>>57608693
there's pictures and footage and mass graves and witness testimony and documents that it was a concerted effort to take all the grain, disallow people from getting food, ban people from coming to cities, it was no accident that millions of people died in an otherwise agriculturally rich land
Why is it so difficult to accept the truth, USSR did this it wasn't even russia
>>57608704
>war crimes
It's like calling Great Depression "irish genocide" (there were Irish among Americans who suffered through Depression, right?)
>>57608750
But it is, just like it's possible to plan human disease
There is such a thing as bioweapons after all
>>57608212
It's very cheap. You pay like $30-50 a month.
>>57608733
I saw parts of TGB. It's actually so ludicrous that you'd think it was made as a comedy.
>severely overweight 60 year old man beating up waves of Vietcong
You think he'd fall over dead of a heart attack doing that.
Anyway, I've seen Chinese movies, and a lot of them talk about 'harmony' and strength together, which my Taiwanese friends tell me are just veiled threats to the Taiwanese people and Taiwanese independence.
>>57608704
>somehow bolsheviks fuckups resulting in famines on the whole soviet territory is "war crime" and "ukrainian genocide"
pls
>>57608802
>bioweapons
>soviet rasha
>>57608811
John Wayne allegedly had to wear a girdle for the filming because he was so out-of-shape. If it were today, they'd tell him to join a gym (Mark Hamill looked a good 10 years younger in TFA after getting /fit/) but people weren't as health or fitness conscious in that era.
Russians just make a safe movie villain because they're intimidating enough but they're also white so no cries of wacism.
why are there so many russians in the baltic states?
>>57608954
why are there so many baltic states on the territories where russians live?
>>57608977
how did they come to live there?
>>57608756
It was "targeted" in a sense that grain was taken from Ukrainian peasants and brought to the big cities and urban areas to feed the people there. Collectivization fucked up to such a degree that the Soviet authorities had to choose between feeding the townspeople or the farmers - and when the former is your biggest source of support and the other almost universally hates your guts due to aforementioned collectivization, the choice becomes obvious.
It was cruel and calculated, yes, but probably not a "proper" genocide.
>>57608572
>>57608704
>ukranian genocide is on par with the holocaus
There wasn't any Ukrainian genocide for God's sake. Famine of 20s—30s hit all southern part of Russia + Volga region, Kazakhstan, Bashkiria, Ural, Western Siberia. Picrelated is the area where it started.
>>57609028
>grain was taken from Ukrainian peasants and brought to the big cities and urban areas to feed the people there
>Ukrainian peasants
What about Russians, Tatars, Kazakhs, Germans and all other territories where this shit happened?
It's like saying that Nazis exterminated only one ethnic group, and forgetting about all others who suffered. Nobody would do this, right. But somehow only Ukrainians are victims of soviet famines.
Rude desu.
>>57608954
They're planning for a blininvasion.
>>57608977
delet this
Since noone has the guts to answer:
The reason there are so many russians in the baltic states is, because stalin had estonians, lithuanians etc. forcefully removed from their countries. The emptied homes were then given to russians to settle in.
>>57609028
russian internet defense force, not even a meme
>>57608843
>bioweapons are hard to make
>bioweapons are all muh Andromeda strain like in Michael Crichton novel
>>57608977
why is there London on the territory where russians live?
why is there some damn Russia on the territories where mongolians live?
>>57609028
Nope, bolsheviks fucked up half of the country.
>>57609139
I didn't say that, but we were referring to Ukrainians specifically. Grain was taken from peasants of all nationalities, but Ukraine got hit hardest simply because they had more grain to "offer". Breadbasket of Europe and all that.
>>57609217
How dare that Ossetian do that to the poor Estonians!
But what's Russians got to do with it, they were the largest ethnic group in Stalin's GULAG, after all.
>>57609274
>Ukraine got hit hardest
No, it fucking did not.
>>57600845
>russian knowing what freedom is.
I guess to a russian youre free so long as your not in a gulag working to death.
lol @ kaccaps
>>57609321
That's because russians were also the largest ethnic group in the USSR, and despite what you have been taught to think, not all russians bowed their head.
>>57609217
>forcefully removed from their countries
So the same thing Stalin always did to russians.
Maybe pribaltics didn't need to support commies in russian civil war after all, such things tend to backfire.
>>57609217
Not even close Jesper. Why would I try to defend something so cruel? Because the confiscations were excessively cruel actions performed by a brutal regime, but calling it a genocide belittles genuine cases of it. If the famine was a planned event in order to be able to confiscate grain with the intent of purging Ukrainians - then yes, genocide - but there isn't evidence that it was.
The famine almost toppled the whole soviet system, do you think they'd do that on purpose?
What was the alternative anyway? Let all the major cities, including ones in Ukraine, starve to death instead?
Now the interesting part is that Soviet propaganda was rarely as blatant as Hollywood in depicting the other guy as cartoon monsters, for example you never exactly saw anything like "Amerifats are barbarians coming to eat your babies." If anything, the cartoony monster angle was saved for the Nazis as propaganda consistently held that fascism was the greatest foe of humankind in existence.
One could say that it's partially because Russian culture loves metaphors; the greatest Soviet filmmakers such as Sergei Eisenstein produced only historical dramas for example Alexander Nevsky, released just prior to WWII as tensions with Germany were building up which depicted the Russian people defeating the Teutonic Knights in the Middle Ages.
>>57609391
So what nigga? Now you blame all Russians (including those which didn't bow their heads as you said) for actions of exact top Soviet officials. Situation in the country was unknown for Soviet people, everything and everybody was hidden. Sometimes even letters were checked. What the fuck are we able to do with that now?
>>57609394
It's still Russia's responsibility to relocate Russians unlawfully placed in other countries. And if you don't, don't get mad when we do it ourselves.
>>57609217
They did the same thign in poland
fucking russians are scum to be killed on sight
>>57609454
>Now you blame all Russians
Absolute lie.
>>57609459
Russians that were born in those areas since Stalin's time aren't there illegaly by any nation's laws, stop the silly bullshit
>>57609576
No it's not dude.
I spend enough time outside Russian-speaking part of the internet and I see what do you really think about us and how do you blame us average modern people for shit done centuries ago.
>>57609634
That piece of shit is unwelcomed in his own country, don't pay attention to him.
>>57609634
Who cares if it's illegal? They're hated and unsafe. If they want Russia's protection they need to go back to Russia, it's completely unacceptable to invade another nation because you don't like how your minorities are being treated.
>>57609685
KGB shills are out I see. How the weather in Moskva?
>>57609464
see, Soviets did it, not Russians
Russians were the largest victim nationality, in fact
>>57609424
I've seen people online and irl seriously defend gulags and the secret police
>>57609712
> it's completely unacceptable to invade another nation because you don't like how your minorities are being treated
Are you saying this preemptively for when Somalia invades you?
>>57609712
> They're hated and unsafe.
keeping them safe is a job of the government and police of the country they live in.
If their security will be ignored by those nations, nations of the world have Western-invented Responsibility to Protect them, including through military power. If other nations won't protect them then, Russia will.
>>57609459
That's not these people's fault, that's the problem.
Soviets also relocated a lot of Russians to Asian countries and didn't allow them to leave. In 90s a lot of descedants of these Russians were killed and tortured.
If you want to do shit like this - do, but we will be "mad", obviously, and will think of you as of stupid savages.
>>57609715
Hitler treated German soldiers pretty badly, should Germany be absolved of all crimes in WW2?
>>57609743
At least they can still tell the natives apart from the muslims in Sweden.
>>57609722
And I've seen people saying hobos=freedom in this very thread bro
There's tons of fucktards all over the internet
>>57609712
>it's completely unacceptable to invade another nation because you don't like how your minorities are being treated.
Daily reminder that we are majority in Crimea, lol. We took that peninsula in a fight, and now it's ours. And it won't be given to any imaginary country.
>>57609764
Yep dude finally you got it. That the only thing gayropeans wish us - to be killed and tortured.
This thread needs Poles. Wheere is their inferiority complex and medieval agression against other Christians?
>>57609771
> Hitler treated German soldiers pretty badly
le what? Pretty sure life and welfare of a German soldier was organized on par with the best
