So, this guy told me that immigration is good for the economy. Is it?
It's good for Montenegro
Not for Macedonia it isn't, they need to stay pure
Qualified immigration for specific tasks is.
>>56331039
I don't know, why don't you go ask the politics board where all of them are experts regarding this issue
>>56331221
neonazi board, you mean.
Depends on where they're coming from and why they're coming.
Illiterate iraqi "refugees" who bring their 4 wives and 14 kids and live on government handouts don't help out the economy.
>>56331039
migration is always good for the economy, especially low schooled migration. Almost all economists agree, just as long as there is no social net. But you will have to accept a certain dissacosiation in society where groups will live apart from each other depending on the culture that arrives.
more people = more spending = more gdp
Mostly yeah.
But the rapefugees? no
>>56331391
Can I come in?
>>56331303
You don't need more people for that. Just give your citizen more money.
Give more money to the citizen = more spending = more gdp
Give infinite money to the citizen = infinite spending = infinite gdp
>>56331503
You are so bad at economy that if you were an American you would be wearing a Bernie shirt right now.
>>56331450
Eh why not.
It's not like we can stop you
>>56331039
yes, it fuels growth by lowering wages
obviously high wages are more important to the population than GDP though
>>56332021
if you say you don't want me to come then i won't
>>56331039
Increases rape kit sales.
>>56331039
They bring more in taxes than they cost here in France
>>56332156
Wait hold up.
I'm not saying you can't
>>56332331
I know that, love. I'm just saying that if you don't want me to come into your country, I won't.
>>56332381
love? they don't use that word in the US you are mistaking with the UK
there is no love in the US
>>56332381
I wouldn't mind
>>56331039
If you're a cuck
>>56331303
More people more welfare more crime
Immigration is only good if you are bringing in skilled workers to fill a field you absolutely cannot fill with citizens.
Otherwise you are just inviting brown hordes of garbage third worlders to change the demographics of your nation and suck up welfare and drive around blaring rap music as they shoot up all the jobs.
>>56332566
Okay then, great.
If you have people with Money coming in
>>56331039
More people means economic growth. That doesn't mean that things get better for the people though.
>>56332021
Yes we can
>>56331945
And you seem to be even worse at recognizing sarcasm. You also don't seem to be very good at economics either based on your previous post.
>>56331039
yeah but it causes a slew of other problems if the country isn't used to immigrants like Europe
It grows GDP, but that doesn't mean anything if none of that growth is going to regular people. As for the benefits of immigration, it depends on the purpose, the developmental level of the country they're moving to, and the skills they're bringing with them. It was fine for us to let millions of peasants from Europe into the USA during the latter half of the 19th century because we were in the middle of industrializing and also settling the western parts of the country. There was enormous opportunity and most of the work didn't require that a person be educated. Contrast that with the 1960s. America had grown and filled in the blank spaces on the map, the country had just experienced a massive baby boom, and women were entering the workforce in large numbers for the first time. It was also a time when American businesses were beginning to outsource work overseas because the laborers were so much cheaper there. It was just about the worst time to open the doors for a second massive migration wave, but it was done anyway. Millions of people we didn't need who weren't educated came in and started flooding the blue collar market, essentially acting as scabs who would take whatever shitty pay and conditions their employers offered them. It meant high profits and overall economic growth, but it also meant that the wages for the working class went nowhere and haven't improved in over 40 years.
tldr immigration only works when you have immigrants who are eager to get to work and become part of society, and plenty of opportunities for them to do so. It does not work when you place no expectations on them and give them welfare when they do nothing.
Good for 1st world and bad for 3rd world.
For example in Russia ordinary self-made programmer has a free math or coding university education funded by government.
Then he works for 3-5-7 years and immigrates to America.
Voila!
Russia lost one skilled specialist who pays and supports all this shit - rockets over syrian sky, babushkas pensions, everything, america got a 100% free skilled specialist.
>>56332816
1. not every post with a Dutch flag is me
2. it was me though
3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsaCfZ_Vin0
4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcZfGwt0kZQ
I'm not saying I approve of a fully open border, but it does help the economy, fact
>>56333206
>but it does help the economy, fact
Not when they put low skilled citizens out of work and we have to spend half a trillion on them a year.
But hey, cheap strawberries!
>>56333604
yes and as friedman say's you should try not to mix the welfare state and a (relatively) open border just look at yurop. But on average migration is ay okay
My political simulation game says its not good
>>56333675
>But on average migration is ay okay
I'm fine with skilled workers from across the globe as long as they are not being brought in to replace Americans just so a corporation can save money.
The problem is that the democrats see every third worlder they import at a future voter and all of the hordes of children they have as future voters.
>the American people don;' want or communist policies?
>import tens of millions of stupid brown people and feed them welfare to skew the numbers
Only if the immigrants are educated and have blue eyes and blonde hair.
>>56333206
>not every post with a Dutch flag is me
There was only one Dutch flag before that post. Your second post didn't record as an unique IP. Therefore, you were responsible for both posts. This is not a hard thing to figure out.
>3
>immigrants as a whole in the US are a benefit to the economy (though this may be false as well, can't be bothered check the sources on the video), therefore "migration is always good for the economy"
Nonsensical argument. US happens to get a lot of skilled and educated migrants, because it's the US. What do we get? A ton of Somalis and Iraqis whose employment rate in 2010 were 13,2% and 13,1% respectively. How much of a net benefit do you think they are to our economy?
>4
>make poor people richer
ok
>>56331039
For skilled in a trade or college educated immigrants it is.
>>56331039
If it's a rich kano, then why not? White Sex tourists all welcome to get all our exotic women.
>>56333820
I agree with the whole voter flock argument. And I do think migration should be accompanied with restricted welfare years for a long time. But on average the biggest winner is the average American/west yuropean. Most Americans have high school educations or higher and find it hard to find jobs on their schooling level. By having more lower educated migrants you free up the low skilled labour so that the higher skilled labour can be done by non-migrant Americans.
In the Netherlands a lot of low paying jobs are being done by Polish people, yes some people lost their job, but often these were jobs that would have otherwise been done by machines if there were no polaks. It thereby makes it easier for native dutch to find better paying jobs.
But yes I am talking about polish which are in culture much more similiar to US. Middle easterners are a bit more difficult to absorb.
>>56333820
>I'm fine with skilled workers from across the globe as long as they are not being brought in to replace Americans just so a corporation can save money.
Free market, goy. Get used to it.
>>56333047
America truly is God's country.
>>56334041
Fuck your jewish "free" market.
>>56334029
>By having more lower educated migrants you free up the low skilled labour so that the higher skilled labour can be done by non-migrant Americans.
>close a low skill market to americans and make them compete over higher skilled jobs
>It thereby makes it easier for native dutch to find better paying jobs.
Only if you have jobs to fill, when you have tens of millions of people out of the workforce a foreign group eating into the job market is bad.
>Middle easterners are a bit more difficult to absorb.
that too, we have enough mini africas(black neighborhoods) we don't need little fallujah
>>56334313
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1AAcpguhRSO
It is. Only illiterate hicks deny it.
The real question is is it worth it to replace your native population with shitskins just to keep the economy growing.
How the fuck do you think you got such a hue population mister monkey?
>>56334509
see the US over the past 40 years
The answer is no.
>>56334313
Most of these jobs are being destroyed either by mechanization or shipping them overseas. Illegal Migrants work under minimum wage and cannot be unionized like Americans have to in many states. This is why they are more flexible as a workforce, if only the government would make it as flexible for Native born Americans too a lot of jobs could return. Also the huge web of rules legally operating companies have to deal with is just often not worth it.
but I do think a lot of Americans would prefer to stay in the welfare trap because it is more sensible. We should implement a negative income tax around the world like friedman (jew alert, you seem an antisemite) proposed to help people into a smooth transition from welfare to work.
>>56334509
what's a shitskin?
>>56334539
diasporas
Also, don't call me monkey. I do not approve.
>>56334413
I am guessing you are not a real jew
You might be, but I get a goy vibe
>>56334627
Yeah, I'm not a jew.
>>56334581
>what's a shitskin?
Arabs, niggers, south americans, pinoys. All assorted subhumans of varying colors of brown aka poop
>>56334736
So... That includes me? Am I a shitskin?
>>56334509
>It is.
Not necessarily. Look at the shit going on over here.
Most of these people can't even read/write in their own language.
IF it is possible to make even a few of them valuable workers it'll cost a shitload of shekels and much time.
Pic related, highly qualified workforce.
It's not good for the governments budget, it's not good for employees, but it is good for employers. At least, on the condition the migrants are actually fit for a job.
>>56334783
don't let it get to you, ever since his mongolian empire was taken away from him suomi's are trying their best to fit in with white society for some reason
>>56334879
Is it good for the country in general?
immigration is great if our nation fits these two criteria
>aging demographic
>low unemployment
>>56334949
no
the only benefit the general populace gets is cheap fruits
>>56335046
and they get labour done that would otherwise not be done. But just stay with your cheap fruit example. It's been much easier finding a plumber with eastern europeans around.
>>56334949
It depends on the migrants and the country.
In the Netherlands importing migrants just means importing an unnecessary lower class that won't contribute to solving our real problems. And on occasion make our problems even worse.
>>56331303
>gdp
Taking money that would otherwise have been spent on something worthwhile from people and wasting it on brown illiterates is a fucking waste. It's like transferring blood from the left arm to the right arm, spilling 30% of the blood in the process and thinking you have somehow given the body a boost of blood. It benefits the leeches from the third world and the people that are paid to house and feed them. The cost to everyone else is tremendous as taxes increase and crime rises.
This joke points out the ludicrousness of the gdp fairly well.
Two Keynesian economists, John Maynard Keynes and Paul Krugman, were walking down the street one day when they passed two large piles of dog shit.
Keynes said to Krugman, "I'll pay you $20,000 to eat one of those piles of shit." Krugman agrees and chooses one of the piles and eats it. Keynes pays him his $20,000.
Then Krugman, feeling richer, says, "I'll pay you $20,000 to eat the other pile of shit." Keynes, feeling bad about the money he lost says okay, and eats the shit. Krugman pays him the $20,000.
They resume walking down the street.
After a while, Krugman says, "You know, I don't feel very good. We both have the same amount of money as when we started. The only difference is we've both eaten shit."
Keynes says: "Ah, but you're ignoring the fact that we've increased the GDP by $40,000.
>>56335159
great point in pointing out the flaws in keynesian economics. But I do wish to point out that we should focus on the positive effects of immigration without looking at how our current yuropean governments fuck it up. If people that come here do not automatically get everything they need immigration is a net benefit for just about everyone.
>>56335125
Oh.. Okay. Got it. That sucks though.
>>56335089
>and they get labour done that would otherwise not be done.
It would get done if the farms would pay more than slave labor, but having a bunch of illegals working for pennies means that is not going to happen
>>56335308
the migrants are happy, the owner is happy, your fruit is cheaper and the work would not be done otherwise, plus managers at those farms are often american schooled people.
Everyone wins
>>56335308
Not him, but the Netherlands has an abundance of cheap food. We're the second agricultural exporter in the world after the USA. That no one wants to work in that sector is a really odd assumption that people here often make.
>>56335286
I'm for free immigration myself. But the welfare state has to be eliminated from the equation for that to work. Workers are a benefit, but there is very little an analphabet with no formal education outside of some religious schooling can do in a modern, post-industrial information economy. I welcome them to come and try, but it is important that they be allowed to fail.
>>56335416
I have worked in the greenhouses, and I can tell you the only reason they still exists are the polish. Otherwise it would have been gone, mechanized or much less eficient.
This whole thing is really sad because if you were born in a shithole, you're kinda stuck to it, because moving out would be immoral
:-(
life can be mean sometimes
>>56335473
>no one wants to work there
>I have worked there
ok
>>56335445
I have worked in some low skilled jobs myself for getting by, very little communication or writing was needed and if I wanted to communicate with the polaks I would use hand gestures. I think you are mistaken in the large amount of unskilled labour that there still is. Which makes it easier for the skilled labour (high school and up) to get jobs because they can boss around the unskilled ones.
It is good for the migrants it is good for you.
Less good for that tiny tiny slither of western europeans that do not have any formal education.
Btw not saying poish can not read and write almost all of them can, and most speak a bit of English or German. I am just saying you don't need to read and write to cut roses.
>>56335411
>the migrants are happy
The illegal invaders happiness is not a concern.
>the owner is happy,
Paying slave wages makes people happy.
>your fruit is cheaper
Woo, slightly cheaper strawberries.
>and the work would not be done otherwise
I already addressed why this is incorrect, you just ignored it.
>plus managers at those farms are often american schooled people.
So low skilled Americans get kicked to the curb so farms can make bigger profits off people that should be deported.
but hey
Cheap strawberries amiright?
fuck our laws
fuck any semblance of homogeneity
fuck our citizens
Some CEO made out so it's all good.
>Everyone wins
our record numbers of people out of the job market say otherwise.
>>56335663
the large large majority of Americans would benefit from more open borders. Just as the US benefited from it when they let your ancestors in.
Sometimes the cost of having manual labour is so high that companies would not do it if they had to pay minimum wage or market wage that the average american asks. It is not a zero sum game, these jobs would often not exist if it were not for the migrants or they would be very mechanized.
It;s not a zero sum game just because wages will lower in certain industries people often overlook that many of these industries were doomed without migrant workers to begin with. But nobody sees what will have happened if there had been no migrants.
well economists do, and they often point out the benefits.
But I am beginning to assume that you believe in a Trumpian look towards economy, if they win we lose. That is obviously not how it works, both parties can win. But you just need to let go of the we you paradigm
btw: I still am not a fan of muslims though
>>56335998
>if they win we lose
Yes, if my country gets flooded with third worlders we lose.
>I still am not a fan of muslims though
Mexicans are the main issue right now.
>>56336132
at least mexicans are papists and not muslims. And it is not impossible to marry a nice mexican chick. It is impossible as a protestan man to marry a muslim woman. which seriously hinders assimilation.
>>56336320
>he wants to breed with them
I'm out
I am gay and I would never top a white men.
>>56336389
be sure to stretch your right hand on the way out
Economics is a soft science, there's a reason we don't just let economists plug numbers into their models and then base all our decisions off what comes out.
If by "the economy" you mean GNI or GDP then yes, "the economy" is better off by freely moving labor. However domestic workers are worse off in the short run and only re-approach their original wages in the long run (some studies show low/high skill never return to original wages).
There are three basic ideas which are used support this.
1. There are jobs that domestic workers and employers will never agree on a wage for.
2. Within industries domestic employees and immigrant employees do not overlap much, ex. foreign workers are competing for non-verbal positions while domestic have jobs that do require speaking
3. Employers take the additional profits and reinvest it in the company, meaning they demand more labor and their profits trickle down.
This doesn't take into account the fiscal burden of the immigrants on communities. While overall their impact is negligible (and much less than the additional GDP they generate) the problem is they are usually concentrated and thus the localized services (education, police, health) take a huge hit for the sake of the rest of the country. Some career politician in Vermont would be enjoying his slightly cheaper almonds while elementary schools in California have 50 students to one teacher.
>>56336712
I am not denying the strain on local infrastructure that is not able to perhaps handle the current influx. But then again, be aware that there are now more job openings for teachers to educate the new migrant children, paid for by the taxes brought in by the new workers. A well regulated migration can be a boon to the economy.
Btw you americans need to get rid of the district system. a voucher system would probably help the creation of more competetive schools that can also give good education to poorer children, whereas now the best schools are always in rich neighbourhoods.
>>56334554
>Illegal Migrants work under minimum wage and cannot be unionized like Americans have to in many states. This is why they are more flexible as a workforce, if only the government would make it as flexible for Native born Americans too a lot of jobs could return
"Flexible" means nothing more than being willing to take shit pay, shit hours, and shit conditions. We didn't spend so many years fighting to improve wages and conditions only to see illegals reverse the trend. Companies who don't want to offer people a good deal can fuck right off, and if they move overseas, they should enjoy fuckhuge tariffs when they try to sell their goods here.
>>56337114
slowly but surely I am beginning to understand how Trump is gaining voters in the US.
I was always amazed that Americans were so willing to plunge their own import-export based economy in the sink just to save a couple of jobs on one end while throwing a shitload of other jobs in boston harbour.
But I am beginning to understand how you people think.
If they win we lose, if they lose we win.
embargoing trade, tarrifs
those are the recipes for war, autarky leads to very violent nations. Since if you cant get certain goods trough trade (since you fucking tarrifed everything) you just have to take it by force
>>56337248
You can take your neoliberalism and shove it up your ass. You may want to welcome a wonderful new world where 99% of all people are lumped into the same chaotic peasant mass working to subsidize the outrageously opulent lifestyles of a small elite, but I'm not interested. I want to twist the arm of that elite as hard as I can because their willingness to throw everyone else in the trash disgusts me.
>>56337472
the 99% that are lumped in terror are the ones living outside the EU,US stralya cunt etc, etc,
you are just afraid they will take away your own position, but they might even improve it
>>56336712
had a good point though I felt a pang of negative attitude towards migration
but just remember you are the 1%
>>56337609
>you are just afraid they will take away your own position, but they might even improve it
I've been a minority surrounded by huge numbers of those 99% who came from Mexico and Central America almost my entire life. They have not improved a single things, not even a little. They have only destroyed what was built before they came and brought with them gangs and crime that were never here before. This place is objectively worse according to every single metric as a result of their presence.
>>56335445
Same opinion as me.
Immigration is necessary in some regards, I work at Aker Solutions and I'd say rougly 40-50% of my co-workers are immigrants. These are job positions that there simply isn't enough people in Norway to cover.
Immigration policy as it currently follows two paradigms that don't go well together, one is that it increases the workforce to offset the problem of an aging population, and two is that rich countries should take in people from poorer countries/conflict areas. The two together don't work in practice.
>niggers
>>56337950
>>56337609
Is this cuck competition?
>>56340524
No, it's called realpolitik.
Something you will never understand as you low IQ subhumans can't differentiate politics from ideology.
>>56340840
More like real cucklitics
>>56340840
cuck
