Could the Soviet Union have survived if some countries/SSRs were added or taken away from it? If so which ones?
If China remained allied with the USSR but otherwise stated the same in how they developed, maybe they could have helped the USSR survive longer.
>>56077876
What would the Chinese have done exactly to help them stay afloat?
Other than political issues I thought SU was fairly self sufficient
>>56077822
Fuck the godless USSR, I thank God it fell apart. We need a Russian Tsar!
the fall of ussr was compounded by Chernobyl
that is if the accident didn't happen it might have another decade or two due to the price of clean up
but this is fantasy since they were conducting tests for the soviet union, ie the disaster would happen somewhere else anyway
>>56077909
I also meant to add something along the lines of if it still existed, but wasn't under some communist dictatorship
>>56077902
>What would the Chinese have done exactly to help them stay afloat
They wouldn't help Afghanistan fight the Soviets.
>>56077919
Yuri Bezmenov explained it all, it had to fall apart, but if I think for a bit, if Yugoslavia was in Warsaw pact, maybe both union would have survived.
>>56077902
It doesn't matter if they were self sufficient that much. They were still too poor to afford keeping their military up to par with America. Now, if the communist bloc had another super power and the USSR didn't have to carry all the weight, it would have probably allowed them to continue existing for a lot longer. Possibly even long enough to reform and get their shit together so that they weren't so poor, but that's iffy IMO.
>>56077959
Now is that just Serbian daydreaming or do you think it could've really happened? I know Yugoslavia was fairly powerful and all but how much could they really teeter on each other
>>56077953
I thought that was mainly us, even though I know after sino-soviet split we got closer with the chinese
>>56077822
No communism doesn't work
>>56077997
"We all need somebody, to lleeeaan on"
>>56077917
Soviet has many points of failure.
1. Chernobyl
2. All post Stalin politics
3. Actually giving up somewhere in the 80s
4. Then actually giving up for real in the 90s
And it keeps on going. Its a insanely huge list.
>>56078121
Now don't hit me too hard, but what internal issues did Chernobyl actually cause? Why was it such a hindrance and shit for them? Was that most of their nuclear materials or something
>>56078145
they couldn't afford the clean up and internationally everyone hated them so not much outside help
all they needed to do was follow a model similar to the chinese economic reforms
thats would have helped immensely
>>56078201
Okay but I still fail to see why a part of Ukraine being fucked over for awhile would shatter them that badly
>>56078201
They wouldn't accept it anyways. The Soviets were offered a ton of money after ww2 and they said no and forced their puppet states to say no too
>>56077822
It could have survived without losing anything except maybe Ukraine if the Ukrainians were really that butthurt. The USSR had more years in it, but it feels like they kinda gave up once they had their Vietnam (Afganistan).
>>56078145
Chernobyl didn't cause a major internal issue, but it caused a small ideological change in the people in charge.
The external issues also led to a lot of problems in the long run.
Remember: Soviet did have a lot of goodwill inside of NATO. Once Chernobyl landed, a lot of that turned sour.
France was like 20-30% communist. Norway/Sweden was 30-50% communist. And it trend was all troughout NATO and Europa.
It affected defectors, University student trade, immigration and emigration.
>>56078232
It cost a shitton to clean up
Its proximity to fucking everything mandated that it could not have been left alone.
If the Soviet union had massively decentralized and allowed some internal dissent during the 70s, then the nationalist sentiment within the SSRs and within Russia itself to slowly reveal itself while the leadership came up with ways to deal within that didn't amount to violent suppression, it is possible. A number of eastern European countries would have still defected (namely Poland and Lithuania) and some central Asian ethnic groups would have probably pushed for either independence or autonomy.
People tend to forget (even the Soviet leaders were guilty of this after the 80s,) that the USSR was an extension of the Russian Empire. It was about as diverse and politically unified as the British empire 200 years earlier.
>>56078262
Going to have to source those percentages.
>>56078395
>He has not read on how insane the Soviet cabal in AP was
>>56078262
>Soviet did have a lot of good will outside NATO
By north Africa n shit tho
Otherwise who else
Cuba? Nicaragua? Venezuala? Mongols?
>>56077822
Are you the same buffoon that made the pro commie thread on his
>>56078485
There is a reason CIA spend most of their drug money on coups in South America.
And why funding Oil Sheiks was a big deal.
>>56078537
You realize the cia never carried out any coups. They just funded groups that might have revolted
>>56078515
I'm not a commie or communist enthusiast
It's just interesting to think about for me is all
>>56078537
>>56078572
Didn't nearly all of them revolt? Whether or not they were successful ofc
>>56077822
Nah it couldn't even handle loosing east germany. Everything went downsides from there on.
>>56078613
I heard a rumor it didn't survive because they all knew they were rightful Finnish clay, and since Finland wasn't in the Russian empire anymore they all felt out of place
>>56078572
Gee, lets ship them arms
Gee, lets train 90% of their core members, and then instruct them on how to recruit more
Gee, lets give them some education on how their governments stay in power, and army/police is not actually set up for dealing with a larger group over 1-5 months time.
Maldives, Chile, Philippines, Honduras & Guatemala are all prime examples.
Even in period it made sense: You have 2 global empires who had won WW2 together. Fought all over the globe. Now they turned on each other, and the easiest way for such states was global proxy wars.
>>56077822
Who cares?
>>56078593
Yeah because communism is a destructive force. The guy in charge of Chile before he got booted out was destroying the economy
>>56078651
I heard that were mongols and mongolia still exists
Checkmate atheists :D
>>56078434
Right, no sources
>>56078708
How many soviet Finns were there back in the day? (Postwar)?
>>56078537
I just got done listening to a verified former CIA case officers podcast.
You guys are fuckin WAY off when it comes to profiling these guys.
Based off of what you guys paint these people as, I'm expecting to see a cross between Pablo Escobar and Agent 47.
What I got was the host of a travel channel show...literally, he was the host of a show on the travel channel and also runs a private intelligence company called Diligence.
Guys kind of annoying, desu.
>>56078762
Do you mean communist finns or finns left inside ussr borders?
>>56078804
You're right i phrased that badly
How many people in Finland supported gommunism
>>56077822
>communism
>sustainable
"Nyet"
>>56078776
Because of fiction, people overestimate strong arms, and underestimate passive recruitment.
So you give the guy some training, a little, and some small amount of cash. In 10-20 months time, this allows the group to grow a lot larger than it could by itself.
So instead of a bunch of undertrained rebels, they know some basics to fall back on when they do something stupid, and those small things tends to be what allows them to passively do great things.
>>56078851
It's too bad our Cuban endeavor fucked up
That was a fairly significant win for soviets
>>56078830
I'd say that at worse it was around 30% in the 70s. Cant remember the statistics and Im on the phone. Search for kommunistinen työväenpuolue if you want exact numbers, these days communists are non-existant
>>56078948
There were that many traitors already after what happened 25 some years earlier?
>>56078995
Very nice rhetoric m8
>>56079000
Well
What do you consider them
>>56078995
Working people collectively hate rich here. Kommunism just comes naturally with it
>>56078851
He was actually discussing that (among many things) on the DUDE WEED EXPERIENCE podcast.
Skimming through it to get you the time , I noticed he covered a ton of shit.
Just about everything, you should at least give it a listen.
At this point, he's talking about trying to create/back foreign militants.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONYJ2BoQDnw
>2:07:30
>>56078844
>civilization
>sustainable
'no'
>>56079415
>Just fuck the world, maaaaan
>Fuck people!
>You know? That's what I say.
