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What kind of fighter jets does your cunt fly?
Do you like them?
Will they be useful for removing kebab and/or gommies?
F-5 mostly.
SAAB will send 2 Gripens C/D for the pilots here get familiarized and i think the first units of the NG will start to be built this year.
>>53391689
>mfw no qt Lavi
t-thanks america.
>>53391689
basically F16 frame with everything replaced .
everything older (f15\f16s with stock engines ) is complete shit .
i served 3 years in the IAF ,only a few months in a fighter jet base and mostly in air-defense (arrow\irondome systems)
>>53391900
it was actually shit
>MMUH SELF SUFFICIENCY
>MMUH ISRAEL MILLITARY INDUSTRY
>>53391689
>What kind of fighter jets does your cunt fly?
F-15 (Eagle), F-15 E (Strike Eagle), F-16, F/A-18 A/B/C/D (Hornet), F/A-18 E/F (Super Hornet), F-22, F-35.
>Do you like them?
Yes. I miss the F-14 and wish we had more F-22s but no complaints really.
>Will they be useful for removing kebab and/or gommies?
Purpose built.
Thanks america for these sexy girls!
>>53391857
The F-5 was based as fuck for what it was. Nifty little plane.
>>53392031
How many can still fly? Six?
>>53391907
You're joking right?
>>53392093
44 units
We also have 28 units of mig-29s
>>53391907
>F-15 is shit
Take that back you double nigger
>>53392255
MiG-29s are garbage. Glad the F-14 is still flying though, even if it's with you faggots. At least they were blessed to kill arabs.
>>53392031
they're actually falling apart because the iranians dont have good quality spare parts for them .
but then iran invests more in air defense then planes .
>>53392093
nope ,in my pic is the IAF's best plane , they even added that shit on the sides above the win because they didnt have room in the original frame for the fuckton of new systems they added . the IAF pilots are in love with the f16 for some reason , its kind of a legend ever since we bombed some iraqi reactors with it .
>>53392310
He's an idiot. The Israeli Air Force canceled an F-16 order at one point in order to replace them with F-15s. His own country has always favored the Eagle over the Viper.
>>53392043
Yeah they're nice. Even though because of the gripen half of them are being retired and others are being updated.
>>53392310
israeli f15s are shit , have old systems etc ..
new american f15s that are constantly upgraded are probably amazing .
>>53392383
>bombed some iraqi reactors
you're welcome for that >>53392310 by the way
>>53392383
>the IAF pilots are in love with the f16 for some reason , its kind of a legend ever since we bombed some iraqi reactors with it .
No retard. You're mistaking it with the F-15. IAF hate the F-16.
CF-18
It's an F-18 but modified n sheit
The RCAF currently uses them to bomb ISIS
>>53392332
>MiG-29s are garbage
we have expensive planes that trigger poorfags
>>53392416
F-16 is a shit
F-15 is overpriced,like 980
F-14 is the best choice
>>53392416
maybe we did at some point get f15s , what im telling you is that currently the israeli airforce is in love with its upgraded f16s and 90% of air attacks in the past 4 years and probably before that were by f16s .
>>53392498
>no range
>no payload
>literally only useful as a short ranged interceptor or low altitude dog fighter
They are. I'm sorry the truth hurts.
>>53392332
>>53392498
Here we go
>>53392633
You have like 100 or so F-15s, though some are Strike Eagles variants.
>>53392536
>F-35 Lightning II
A fucking memecraft
totally useless vietnam war leftovers and shit
I bet they have vietcong bullet holes
hopefully we´ll get yak 130 or korean golden eagle soon
>>53392612
F-14 was more expensive than the F-15 desu.
And there are so many versions of the F-16 it really depends which you're talking about. Some are complete shit, some are top tier to elite.
>>53392846
God that plane in Wargames: Red Dragon is a fucking beast.
Only 50 points and delivers napalm.
Fucking stellar aircraft.
>>53392473
i fucking served in israeli airforce HAS es in several airforce bases so im prettu sure i know a thing or two about the iaf .
we have like 3-4 f15 squadrons only one of which is the new actually good ones .
and a gorillion f16 squadrons
>>53392846
>korean/american golden eagle soon
*ftfy
>>53392825
The Chinese seem pretty happy with it.
>>53392865
Which ones are shit and which ones are good?
enlighten me my burger freind.
>>53392938
but can it beat qaher 313?
Mostly CF-18s. We were just about to adopt the F-35 but le weed man dropped the plan, so we are more than likely going to adopt the Eurofighter Typhoon, which will piss me off for the rest of my life.
>>53392938
That thing is a piece of shit. What makes the F-35 so good is it's engine and it's avionics, which the Chinese have no idea how to copy.
>>53392668
>no range
>no payload
>literally only useful as a short ranged interceptor or low altitude dog fighter
>>53392964
Generally speaking anything block 50/52 or above are good, block 40/42 and 30/32 is meh, anything else is kill it with fire.
>>53393150
He isn't wrong. The mig-29 isn't very useful for literally anything but short range interception. That's what it was built to do.
What plane does australia use?
>>53393051
Nothing can beat the Qaher 313. Especially when you factor price into account.
>>53393129
Why bother with the Typhoon when they're almost the same price and the F-35 offers safer logistics in a SHTF scenario?
>>53393129
F-15 is the best plane
muh sneaky stealthy shit is nothing but a gimmick
and f-35 is shit,case closed
>>53393051
im pretty sure anything can beat this 'flying' abortion .
it looks like some iranian engineer got drunk and watched stealth .
im sure the israeli plane project would have turned out just as shit but ours actually looked like a plane and not some anime shit .
>>53393153
Thanks for the infor
>>53393226
Its fueled by the tears of ebill zionists
>>53393232
Lockheed shill
Pic related
>>53393352
>California
???
We only have maritime surveillance and transport planes, which are useful at both tasks anyway
>>53393256
Look at that fucking gear
LOOK AT IT
ITS JUST FUCK MY SHIT UP TIER
>>53393201
F/A-18 Hornet, F/A-18 E/F Super Hornet, and E/A-18 Growlers. This is a Growler here
>>53392271
They will fuck your shit right up.
You're also buying F-35As to retire the legacy Hornets.
>>53393234
>F-15 is the best plane
>muh sneaky stealthy shit is nothing but a gimmick
Why not both?
>>53393256
why iranians try so hard to be hardcore . i mean ffs u got hot persian chicks .
>>53393383
Iran didn't had any regional flags
I just picked empty
>>53393471
>no one will ever buy the Silent Eagle
I understand why but it still makes me sad.
Never discuss about air planes on the internet. Burgers gonna say "F-22 best"
Bydlos gonna say "Sukhoi best"
Yuros gonna say "Yurofighter best"
Swedes gonna say "Gripen best"
Turks gonna say "Donkeys best"
>>53393579
Because it's the same price as the f-35 and not as good?
>>53393234
this guy actually gets it
>>53393497
this .
iw as a 3d designer in the IDF when this shit came out .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94a3236AcUQ
our commander made us watch it and said 'want and learn' . i mean its not isis production quality but the 3d is pretty good compared to the shit we were making .
>>53393655
Yeah, pretty much. I still think it deserves to exist though.
Congress should let Taiwan buy it, they'll buy anything at this point.
>>53393596
>Bydlos
Why so rude? Even burgers doesn't sound so rude!
>>53393727
We are really into vaporwave and early 2000s 3d animations
>>53393754
sorry, was trying to bring some humor into my post
>>53393596
Qaher 313 is best to be fair
>>53393787
So is Russia.
>>53393191
It build for any kind of interception, it have a range of average interceptor. You got meme'd lads.
>>53393790
>war is boring
Don't ever do this again if you wish to be taken seriously.
>>53393790
>WarIsBoring
>facts
top kek
>>53393741
The Israelis recently asked for it again, and from what I've heard, we said no. Again.
Gotta get those F-35 orders instead. We're too far in, we can't pull out now! More blood for the JSF god!
>>53393863
It's flight time is measured in minutes. The engines are too inefficient for it to be anything but a short range interceptor.
>>53391689
>German fighter jets
>flying
AHAHAHAHAHA ;_;_;_;_;
>>53393863
>it have a range of average interceptor.
No it doesn't.
>>53393596
this is all memes man .
a plane is as good as the systems each nation puts on it . the only other difference is you can fit more bombs on bigger planes .
america pretty much sells israel stripped planes (they can fly stock but have no avionics\weapon systems \anything modern) so everything on the plane is made by the israeli aerospace industries , which make amazing systems simply because they have a shitton of data and feedback .
i dont think there has been a period of more then 4 months in the last 15 year where the IAF didnt bomb at least one target .
>>53393944
The F-35 is a better plane but there is a market for the SE too I feel.
>>53393984
true that.. Israel's modified versions of the F-15/16's are dope.
>>53393451
Is that good?
from my understanding pic related (like the new latest ones) BTFOs pretty much anything .
>>53394100
Yes, quite. I think you're buying more Growlers too.
>>53394112
Do you live in 1965 anon?
>>53391689
>What kind of fighter jets does your cunt fly?
>>53394112
Mig-25 is such a great plane, especially if you consider when it was manufactured..
the b-2 is the coolest plane
What's the most reliable, no-frills, best value jet?
Just asking for a friend who wants to start a new country.
>>53394196
There's no plane that serves its purpose as well as the MiG 25 does
>>53394215
>ireland
>>53394273
You mean a purpose that has been obsolete for half a century?
>>53394273
It was designed to counter a bomber that was never built.
So sure.
F-16s with the MLU
Getting F-35As. We have 2 of them now, stationed in the US for training/testing.
Too bad we're only getting 37 of them. The acquisition was right in the middle of the financial crisis and our defense budget was being cut every year. Now we're actually increasing defense spending again, but it's unlikely any of that will into buying more F-35s.
>>53393956
>>53393964
whatever makes you sleep better
>>53394248
griffen probs
>>53394375
Will you at least paint one orange?
>>53394196
meant to post this /.
Posting this since it's relevant to the thread
>>53394452
Why do you keep posting obsolete aircraft anon?
>>53394248
get a superkingair , make some DIY IR seekers\m16 mount on the nose .
great fucking plane .
>>53394380
>Maximum range 1430km/h
>Maximum speed 2400 km/h
It's flight time is measured in minutes even at half speed.
>>53394465
Buy a squandron of As already, you know you faggots want to.
>>53394509
because its beautiful .
Can somone explain to me whats the main role of F-35?
It can't do any thing good,its shit
Don't get me started about stealth shit
It can be detected by upgraded WW2 era radars
>>53394588
You again. No! We have Typhoons!
>>53394593
Strike attack aircraft.
It can't be targeted by modern SAMs unless it's almost on top of them. Stealth isn't a meme, and the F-35 uses stealth to take out SAMs, and open up paths for non stealth aircraft.
>>53394248
Gripen. But you have to kiss American and British ass (or at least not piss them off) because they make all the relevant parts.
>>53394465
>2,443
Sweet living fuck that is just obscene
>>53394518
That doesn't look like it'd be able to compete very well with fighter jets
Are u trying to trick me?
>>53394593
>Can somone explain to me whats the main role of F-35?
The same as what the F-16 turned into. Strike with with secondary roles in air superiority and SEAD
>>53394681
That's not even that many by our standards. You ever take a look at how many F-16s and F-4s we made?
>>53394641
The economy is growing. There is room in the budget.
Give in.
F-22 vs T-50
Which would win?
>>53394449
>have 1 F-16 reserved for our display team
>it gets called back by the Air Force because they desperately need another F-16 in operational state
>gets an anti-corrosion treatment and is painted grey again
JUST
And I don't think Lockheed will allow us fucking up the RAM coating on the F-35 by painting it orange :^)
>>53394923
As a general rule of thumb planes, irrespective of the model, defeat vaporware in A2A combat.
>>53394593
anything flying can be detected by radar no matter how uberstealth it is , that's not the point .
a big plane that returns a big juicy radar signal is piss easy easy to track lock unto and shoot down with even old as fuck AA .
stealth planes drastically reduce the range at which you can get a reliable radar lock ,make it nearly impossible to identify the types and numbers of planes flying together and when you you add anti-radar tactics into the mix like countermeasures ,decoys , electronic warfare and more that means the enemy has no clue what the fuck's going on in the air from the radar alone .
this is a shit analog but its like the difference between getting a nice clean wifi signal you can get good speeds on at home and trying a shitty over saturated public wifi with overlapping channels and a shitton of interference . sure you can browse on both but its not the same .
stealth is not a meme , stealth making planes undetectable is .
>>53394923
T-50 isn't quite "complete" yet.
It may never be.
>>53394997
>And I don't think Lockheed will allow us fucking up the RAM coating on the F-35 by painting it orange :^)
Ptobably not but if you REALLY want one I'm sure they'll be happy to design one for you.
For a reasonable fee of course.
>>53394908
Kek. Honestly if we had extra money what I'd buy from you lot is some V-22s. But I wouldn't even do that because I'd throw any extra money at the Royal Navy, 2bh
>>53394681
For you.
>>53395043
>anything flying can be detected by radar no matter how uberstealth it is ,
Doesn't matter if it's detected. What matters is if it can be targeted, and L band radar cannot target.
What good does it do you knowing a plane is somewhere in the general area if it cannot be killed?
America probably have some super secret plane in area 51 that can fly at the the speed of light and has laser weapons
>>53394449
well actually...
>>53395140
Tbh I want you to buy V-22s too and then turn them into AWACS so we can buy the design back.
>>53394688
> reliable
check
>no-frills, best value
check
> jet
well turboprop is sort of kind of a jet engine .
if you start a new country you probably dont have enough money to but the latest gen fighter planes , superkingair is a multirole , reliable , good plane and you can get spares for cheap from a trillion different countries .
IAF loves this plane , i got into one i wasnt supposed to get on and it was loaded with super sekrit cameras and surveillance stuff .
>>53395184
>has laser weapons
Our public systems have laser weapons, that shit is pleb tier. The weapons for the black projects probably dismantle spacetime.
>>53394923
>not 5th gen
>no sight of the final production engines
>India pulling out
We will probably never know
What fighter jet should Finland buy next?
>>53395179
which which was exactly the point of my post .
once the radar-confetti-disco starts you cant distinguish between a stealth fighter plane , a bird and a death star
>>53395428
No worries senpai, I was just adding to your post.
"Stealth is a meme" is no doubt a meme.
Ruskies should be more proud of pic related. I hear it's been doing great at blowing up the levant
>>53395370
Correct tier
>F-35 A or C
Half-assed tier
>Super Hornets
What the fuck are you even doing tier
>Gripen
>>53395370
F-35s when they get cheaper. Or Gripen NGs if you don't want to piss of the Russians too much
>>53395545
i dont think they brought them there (not sure)
but anything that putin flies must be good .
>>53395578
>superhornets
>bad
no
>>53395545
They are proud of them, and they should be. It's a fantastic B-1 copy.
They were so proud of them that they announced they were going to build more....before they realized everyone who actually knew how to build the damn thing had left for the US or Israel 20 years ago.
>>53395269
There's a CGI of it
>>53391689
lol none
>>53395370
you know you want to finnbror
>>53395654
I didn't say they were bad, I said it was a half assed choice for Finland. Countries like Finland only buy jets every 30-50 years.
If you expect your jet to last that amount of time you should go with the most advanced option.
Obviously the Super Hornet is based but if they bought it now it would be a 20 year old airframe before they even started flying it.
>>53395545
It didn't really, which is partially why they stopped doing it.
I doubt they intended it to in the first place. If you haven't realized, the Russians have been using Syria as a laboratory to test weapon systems. Which is why they're launching cruise missiles and sending expensive strategic bombers when they could otherwise be dropping dumb bombs from SU-25s. The use of the Tu-160 in Syria is the first time they've ever actually used it in combat. A great way to collect data.
>>53395670
It's beautiful.
>>53395734
Not really
>>53395705
Hi Togo
>>53395752
i thought you mean american superhornets . nvm
>>53395775
Pretty sure they went over Raqqa last week, but I could be wrong. It's not like they're using it at max. capacity anyway. And they're using their older bears too.
Ever heard how these beauties ended up in Ukraine's hands and how they just decommissioned (rekt) most of them?
>>53395670
tell me this aint real .
>>53395931
I don't follow you.
You thought I was saying the Super Hornet was shit for the US?
It's cheaper to invest in defence...for now.
>>53395985
It's not real, merely CGI. Some people are talking about V-22 AEW but it's very unlikely to happen
>>53395978
>cuckraine in charge of doing anything right.
>>53396004
my point was american superhornets are great .
if find buy em they're as good as what fins put on them (unless they're buying them with all the systems which costs kajilions )
>>53394509
Because the world is yet to develop something at least nearly as awesome as it.
>>53396093
>but it's very unlikely to happen
Because we aren't allowed to have nice things, apparently.
>>53395752
What I understood, it was 10 billion for the planes with 30 billion in lifetime expenditures.
>>53396131
>if find buy em they're as good as what fins put on them (unless they're buying them with all the systems which costs kajilions )
Not really. We sold Australia Growlers for Christs sake.
And Finland isn't exactly poor, they could easily afford fully loaded Super Hornets. It would just be dumb, because they'll be stuck with them for perhaps half a century.
>>53396175
For which plane?
Those numbers aren't bad at all for modern fighters.
I'm still conflicted about the cancellation of further f-22 orders.
In one hand, it is true that we will probably never be challenged by a powerful country to a 1v1 conventional war so we don't need thousands of them.
But without more production we have fewer than 200 for the next 15 years until the F/A-XX comes into service.
The only consolation imo is that no other country will be able to create anything that can top it until then.
>>53392938
That in no way looks like or is like the 35.
Nice meme.
>>53396418
Heck i know, final selection will be made in 2020 (?)
>>53396149
Because it's fucking stupid and a total degrade of the supremely capable Advanced Hawkeyes?
>let's give up these Ferraris so we can purchase these Chevy Malibus
>>53396540
There are still hundreds of F-15s though. No reason we can't get buy until the next gen with those, the F-22, and F-35 handling air superiority.
>>53396724
Obviously it's wose than the Hawkeyes. I was talking about for the Muhrines on the Americas and Wasps.
>>53393741
Taiwan is not allowed by treaty. We don't want to piss off the PRC more.
>>53394375
The rest of your military is such a clusterfuck it needs the money more.
>>53394465
>Canada
Outdated! Come on it's 2016
>>53394554
>range
>km/h
Wot
>>53394465
>selling weapons to T*rks
>>53397052
They could still end up buying it. It will be included in the competition
>>53396728
We're down to 200 F-15 C-D's
240 F-15E's with the first retired ones in a year.
The air supremacy ones will go ANG and die by 2025, and the bombhogs are going to be retired by 2030.
Sad.
The F-22 will be carrying a huge load the next 25 years. Hopefully they stop killing pilots by then.
>>53397266
The 65 number is very unlikely though. The 2015! money already is getting spent on other stuff this year.
So it's outdated.
>>53397402
Fine it's outdated, calm your tits.
>>53396937
The gator fleet doesn't fight like the USN. And trying to do so would make them even more irrelevant.
It's coincidence that the Corps is now talking about using the LHAs purely for F-35Bs to support the CVNs in strike missions.
Buying into a ludicrously expensive new project like a potential AWACS V22 is nowhere in the realm of economic possibilities for them.
>>53397477
>It's coincidence
It's not*
>>53397105
Check his flag
>>53395775
The USA has used strategic bombers in Iraq and Afghanistan as well. If you have the material, you might as well use it.
>>53397434
I wasn't trying to be mean.
I'm no autist. I just am anti-Western international neoliberalism so
F-35 = a too big to fail program forming an arm of American propaganda military diplomacy.
Still, I think it is amazing. I simply like to keep things factual. Too many pro and anti F-35 memes.
>98 million a plane
>can't dogfight therefore bad
>no gun
>crash prone
>B has IOC therefore it is ACTIVE
>98% functional = ACTIVE
I just think the whole program is a giant political game being played to please all Congressmen.
>>53397616
b1 is a sexy plane
i remember i was staying at an air force base for cub scouts and me and my dad sneaked into a restricted area to watch b1s take off
>>53397616
One question Always comes to mind: shouldn't the US do away with all their global airports?
>>53397660
Crash prone?
Are you intentionally stupid?
>>53397551
>using F-18A's
>using F-5's
>using Sea Stallions
Come on it's 2016!
But seriously, the marines need more money. A bunch of their F-18's are breaking down and a few crashed last year.
>>53397552
He is American.
Why would he use km/h while talking about range? Why a speed measurement for range?
>>53397757
Why would they do that?
>>53397793
>the marines need more money
What they need to do is make like a tree and leaf.
Their services are no longer needed.
>>53397767
Those are memes I dislike seeing.
Idiot blogspotters call it crash prone and failure prone so often mainstream media uses it as a descriptor at times as well.
>>53397551
What do the Marines need fighter jets for?
>>53397757
Having bases/airports abroad gives us power projection.
Though we should leave Germany, IMO. They don't want us there, and we'd be better off setting up in Poland.
>>53397757
Why?
>>53392633
>and 90% of air attacks in the past 4 years and probably before that were by f16s .
You realize you are agreeing with him when you say that? Bomb trucking is a job for low-end fighters, with air cover performed by the good shit(F-15s)
>>53397908
>>53397920
David Axe pls go be fat and stupid somewhere else.
>>53397757
>shouldn't the US do away with all their global airports?
For what purpose?
>>53397980
We're leaving Germany by 2019 IIRC. Establishing more non-European bases instead
>tfw the US Navy has the world's second largest air force, right behind the US Air Force
>>53397920
Why are the marines using F-35B's if the Navy uses F-35C's for the same role?
Why not just build more supercarriers and C's instead of more marine carriers and B's?
The Marines literally built the America class LHA just to be a F-35B carrier.
The F-35 wouldn't even be a thing if the Marines didn't ask for a STOVL plane.
Don't ask me. The military and congress don't make any sense.
>>53397920
That's a good question anon.
I'm sure this genius over here >>53398043 will enlighten us.
>>53398094
STOVL planes are useful, they're not doing it for shits and giggles
>>53398076
>being this wrong and not in the current year where PRA IS STRONKER ANRND BRIGRER RHAN US NAVRY
>>53397266
as a former f15 technician that looks like a maintenance nightmare that would be ready to fly like 3% of the time .
>>53397992
>>53397980
>>53397882
>>53398064
only one of you has suggested one pro: power projection
on the other hand it's a shitload of money
allot isn't even maintained properly
and of course
>STOP BEING MUH INTERNATIONAL WATCHDOG, LIGHT THAT GUARDS THE REALM FROM COMMUNISM, AND GLOBAL POLICE
>>53397980
>They don't want us there
Too bad.
>>53392687
sup Hawaii
>>53392926
>and a gorillion f16 squadrons
Sounds like a typical Hi-Lo mix. Brotip: the F-16s are not the "Hi"
>>53397920
As a civilian who just happens to like pictures of fighter jets, I understand that the US army and Marines are treated as distinct branches but I've never really understood why? My understanding is that Army combat units have a lot more vehicles and armor (tanks) integrated into their forces whereas the Marines do most things on foot and rely more on air support for their heavy hitting. What's the real story?
Old Yugoslavian ones mostly, built to protect gommunism
>>53398225
They are useful.
But can't you put them on supercarriers?
In my view, our LHA's should be helicopter carriers working alongside our supercarriers.
Now they are pseudo-carriers with their own little battle groups.
Essentially far far less capable sitting ducks compared to a CBG in a hot war.
>>53398225
They serve no purpose for us.
If the US ever finds itself in a position where it NEEDS stovl F-35Bs to win, then the war is already lost.
The Chinese would like nothing more than to see some LHA trying to attack their territory for some odd reason.
Any serious conflict with a real country will involve us hitting them from 2k km out.
>>53398266
Most of those are extremely minor.
For example in 2013 I stayed in the NATO lodge in Garmisch. It was literally a lodge with some fencing around it.
Also it was joint NATO not American.
Oh, and Garmisch is absolutely gorgeous. One of the best places on earth.
Zugspitz is great as well for being the tallest mountain in the former Germany.
>>53398411
STOVL aircraft are useful for providing air support for ground troops. They can land closer to the front which means it takes less time for them to get back to base and rearm for another bombing run.
>>53398450
Too bad the refugees will ruin it, huh
>>53398286
It's a 1940's-1950's meme that has survived to present.
Essentially established bureacracy that is impossible to kill because of the extremely pro-military politics of Congress.
It literally should be absorbed into the Navy.
>>53398094
>The Marines literally built the America class LHA just to be a F-35B carrier.
You are now disqualified from saying anything else on the matter. You don't know crap about what LHA/LHD are for. There's gonna be four Bs per in normal conditions. It's purely for supporting the MEFs carried by the same ships, it's not like a real carrier that uses air power to dominate a broad swath of sea.
>>53396998
I agree on the latter but care to elaborate that it's a clusterfuck?
Our navy has been doing pretty decent despite the budget cuts. Entire fleet is modern and well equipped in terms of sensor suites and armaments. We're one of the few countries with a green-water navy and we'll also be one of the first countries to have proper BMD capabilities on our destroyers (SMART-L EWC/APAR + SM-3). Getting new multipurpose frigates and submarines as well. The Belgian Navy is also pretty much integrated into ours so we get some extra capabilities in terms of mine hunting and anti-submarine warfare.
Army has seen a bigger loss in capabilities/equipment, but then again, it was hugely oversized since the Cold War. We got rid of most of the stuff that was catching dust, including most of of our Leopard 2A6s. Still got one squadron of them left which are being upgraded to 2A7+ standards. Furthermore lots of CV-90s, Fenneks, Boxers, Bushmasters, SPGs and solid IADS with multiple Patriot and NASAMS 2 batteries. Really need some multiple rocket launchers though.
Marines got decent amphibious capabilities with LCUs, LCVPs, NH90 helis and a shitload of tracked personnel carriers.
>>53398035
nah , while they let other planes bomb palestinians , in an actual war scenario F16 sufa is israel's air superiority fighter ,we have like 25 F15 raams (the good ones) with only maybe 13 ready to fly\in the air at a time . where's we have 100 sufa's which are israel's most advanced , most expensive multirole planes .
f16 sufa is the fighter plane israel has .
>>53398094
So your solution is the neuter the fuck out if 9 existing ships... Good idea.
>>53398507
That's why I said the former republic of Germany.
When I went in June 2013 I saw two brownish people in all of Garmisch.
According to Germanons it is now a major crossing point for those "refugees" entering.
Like a horde of orcs rushing down the valley towards the fertile blonde pussies of the former republic of Germany's lowlands.
>>53398525
Then why no well deck?
Oh I'm disqualified? Are you autistic Mr. arm chair general?
>>53398286
Marines are extra useful because they can be plopped on an assault ship near the usual trouble spots and get into the action in days or even hours.
US Army lacks the Amphib specialization, and also takes longer to "run up" for a deployment outside of a few SOF units.
How can the West realistically stop Chinks from stealing technology?
>>53398343
>But can't you put them on supercarriers?
Yes
>>53398201
the dolphin is a good looking helicopter
>>53398579
Compared to 2005, it's a clusterfuck.
That's what I meant.
>>53398508
>It literally should be absorbed into the Navy.
It literally should not. The Navy knows absolutely nothing about wars on land.
>>53391689
Nobody can yet tell what modern air combat looks like and what aspects will emerge victorious under total war conditions. The history of aerial warfare is filled with false assumptions.
>>53395370
Your Air Force have been looking at the Typhoon as of early last year.
I even spoke to a few officials regarding. Same for Belgian AF.
>>53398650
NUKE THEM
>>53398598
I didn't say that.
I am arguing that the America class (the two without welldecks) and the F-35B should not have been made in the first place.
>>53398715
>>53398600
this depresses me, guys ;_;
>>53398760
They've been looking at a lot more than the Typhoon.
>>53398266
Can't say I like being obligated to defend a nation of cucks.
>>53398647
So just fully integrate the Marines into the Navy's branch?
>>53398650
Make an advanced F-35 design with a fatal flaw
If they copy shit they get shit amirite
>>53398767
What a completely and totally irrelevant thing to say.
>>53398650
Elect Trump, he'll solve it.
>>53398644
The vast majority of the America class has a well deck.
Not him but yes you're disqualified for being retarded.
>>53398730
The Marines are a pointless branch of the military that should be absorbed into the Navy.
Nothing should change fundamentally, but separate branches has created improper allocation of resources.
>>53398343
>Now they are pseudo-carriers with their own little battle groups.
In the entire history of America's Amphib Assault ships, there has been exactly one(1) case of an LH* being loaded up with jets to act as a pseudo-carrier.
In other words, you are pulling things out your ass and should really stop talking
>>53398286
>My understanding is that Army combat units have a lot more vehicles and armor (tanks) integrated into their forces
LMAO. Tons of heavy units are being downgraded to wheels to save money and man-hours. We've learned NOTHING from the past decade.
>>53398966
You're a fucking idiot. If anything they should be part of the Army... You know, the force that knows about land operations.
>>53398525
The top USMC brass like Lt. Gen. Jon Davis himself has said that the USMC needs to start looking into loading the LHAs wt 16-20 F35s to support the CVNs.
The USMC is redundant in the 21st century.
They were redundant for most of the second half of the 20th as well.
>>53398879
How?
If the first two LHA's are so great, why the major redesign?
>>53398860
>So just fully integrate the Marines into the Navy's branch?
How would integrating a sea based assault force expected to fight on land into a branch with zero experience or training in land warfare be anything other than a complete and total disaster?
You realize this exact same fuckup happened when the Army and Air Force were in one branch right?
>>53399033
Operational flexibility. Not that that has anything to do with why your point was completely irrelevant. It was irrelevant because the shit you're whining about already exists.
>>53394465
>norway 52
Must be nice playing with infinite money cheats on
>>53398830
As I understand it, the bases are there for projection of ground forces into east Europe. Germany doesn't need defending any more
>>53398730
>>53398966
>>53399028
This debate is interesting because the "whole force" concept of the USMC is admired by quite a few British defence analysts, and reform of the British armed forces is partly informed by the experience of the USMC. The British military is going that way, increased integration in order to be more effective
>>53398935
The two that actually exist do not have welldecks.
They were also originally designed to have no welldeck.
Seems like you're disqualified for being absolutely wrong and providing no accurate evidence.
>>53398815
Never said otherwise. They won't buy F-35 though.
>>53398966
Why would they be absorbed into the Navy? The Navy does not know how to fight land battles.
If anyone should take them it would be the Army.
>>53399113
>This debate is interesting because the "whole force" concept of the USMC is admired by quite a few British defence analysts
how so?
>reform of the British armed forces is partly informed by the experience of the USMC.
how so?
>>53399028
Top USMC brass, huh?
IE the only people outside of congress dinosaurs that thought the '80s revival of Iowas was a good idea? USMC brass, like the one that advocated against the Marines adopting a shorter rifle for reasons that can best be summed up as autism? The ones that buy an overpriced DMR and pretend it's a SAW replacement when they really want it just because new rifle?
>>53398996
The F-35B being used on the LHA's is the main purpose of the F-35B being made.
Also, the LHA's are always carriers if they carry fixed wing craft or not.
>>53399016
Because the Army knows how to operate amphibious assault ships and LHA's?
>>53398703
In what way? Legitly interested
Anything that can take down whatever russia is flying t b h lads
>>53399028
Davis just wants carriers of his own because navy has them. His statements should not be taken as indicating the future development of the force. They should be taken as what they are: interservice squabbling between USMC and Navy.
>>53399278
Russian maintenance practices?
>>53399172
Tell me about all the experience the Army has operating LHA's and AAV's.
I'm not saying the Navy should control the Marines, I'm saying the branches should be integrated to make up for redudancies.
The Navy should control the LHA's and air contigents and the Marines control the land vehicles and soldiers.
Looks like I am triggering a lot of autists though.
>>53399379
I like you you make me laugh
But seriously gib discount on f-35
>>53399228
>The F-35B being used on the LHA's is the main purpose of the F-35B being made
Wrong. Did you forget the Bongs wanted it?
>>53399239
Your army is pathetic.
Your navy has not replaced older platforms, yet.
Your air force is much smaller and using 1980's planes.
>>53391689
>Kind of fighters
idunno ask russian xd
>like them
idunno ask putin xd
>removing kebab/commies
i dunno ask merkel xd
>>53399425
Why don't you get a less shitty economy first senpai.
Sorry about those sanctions btw.
Or maybe, you can be neutral with Russia and not instigate an invasion?
>>53399208
>how so?
Response time is terrific because they have land, air and naval power integrated into a unified structure. And history has shown they are effective as well as fast to react
>how so?
Now that the Cold War is over, the British military is becoming an expeditionary force like it used to be before the world wars. Less emphasis on army, more emphasis on navy and power projection. The British government needs a force that can react very quickly to international situations, and amphibious assault is crucial. A more unified force structure is helpful and the USMC is an obvious model as it can act almost independently. Now obviously there are major differences, the British military isn't going to become the USMC, but the philosophy is similar
>>53399453
>using 1980's planes.
That really isn't very strange. The USA is just beginning to shed its 1970s aircraft.
>>53399433
That doesn't change the fact the Marines wanted the B from the start of the JSF.
Whataboutism much?
Also, the Bongs weren't part of it when the F-35X was being designed 1995-1997.
They had little to nothing to do with the design.
>>53399381
>Tell me about all the experience the Army has operating LHA's and AAV's.
Tell me about the experience the USN has fighting on land. The answer to both is none.
So we can agree then that the Marines serve a purpose.
>>53399528
Thanks for those wonderful explanations.
>>53399505
Russia is removing a lot of your brethen in Syria. It reminds me of that one scene in Men in Black.
Win win.
>>53399582
F-15, F-14, F-16, and A-10? What about F-18 Hornet?
>>53399582
Agreed.
But 2016 planes are better. Relative versus absolute differences.
>>53399600
>The bongs had little to nothing to do with the design of the F-35B
Except the system that makes it into STOVL you mean?
>>53399604
They serve a purpose that could be split up between the Navy and a Marine land force.
>>53399728
Proofs?
>>53399453
Army pathetic? Based on what?
Our navy has literally no old platforms bar our mine hunters, which have no priority.
You still use F-15s, F-16s and F-18s as well. Retarded argument. And did you know we were the first foreign country to receive the F-35A for testing/training?
I hoped you had some good insights but you're just spouting shit.
>>53399777
>between the Navy and a Marine land force.
So..if we're going to have a Marine land force anyway what have we actually achieved in your scenario other than creating a chain of command clusterfuck and branches with missions that will become conflicted in resource allocation?
>>53399526
How about no, there's like 3 people here and the only natural resource is depression.
Thanks, it's like anotha cold war but this time we're getting sanctioned by both sides.
>>53399681
Assuming you mean the Super Hornet then I believe those will be slowly replaced by F-35C's
>>53400000
The Super Hornet currently has not plans to be replaced. It will take on the role of legacy hornets which will be replaced.
>>53399600
The UK is the only "level 1" partner of the F-35 programme which means it had design input. This is explicitly said by Lockmart and your government.
It's not because you love us, it's because we paid a larger amount of money into the programme than other countries, and BAE put some of its own research into it (which is why BAE is one of the primary manufacturers)
By the way, you lied in your post. You said Britain wasn't involved in the 1995-1997 period. However
>The United Kingdom is the sole "Level 1" partner, contributing US$2.5 billion, which was about 10% of the planned development costs[5] under the 1995 Memorandum of Understanding that brought the UK into the project.[6]
>1995 Memorandum of Understanding that brought the UK into the project.
>1995
>1995
Understand that? So fuck you.
>>53399381
>The Navy should control the LHA's
They do already
>and air contigents
Yeah we tried that once, it was a disaster.
>>53399582
F-15s will be flying until the 2040's.
>>53391689
>What kind of fighter jets does your cunt fly?
The sexy kind
>Do you like them?
Oh yes
>Will they be useful for removing kebab and/or gommies?
Yup
>>53400096
>programme
I wish you faggots would stop this shit. It triggers me almost as much as Australia and that "gaol" nonsense.
>>53400557
Programme (as in a tv programme) has a distinct meaning to program (like to program a computer). It's not my fault if your variant of English doesn't bother making the distinction. You don't even differentiate between cheque (for money) and check (to make sure). It's mad, but each to their own.
>>53400503
I heard they might be doing strikes against ISIS from US carriers while the CDG is in port. I hope it happens. Would be cool as fuck to see.
>>53400656
>It's not my fault if your variant of English doesn't bother making the distinction.
But it is your fault. You can use the free spelling but you choose not to.
>>53400770
I dunno how likely that is but that would be an interesting sight
Damn shame we've only built one carrier though
>>53393369
the F35 Lightning is so sick
>>53400869
Why would you choose simplified English over the regular kind? I know how the Taiwanese must feel now.
Metre (unit of measurement) and meter (something that measures) is another one. Two meanings but you use the same word
>>53400873
Build another nice one to remove more kebabs with. No cuckramp though please.
>>53391689
I'm tired of this "German Engineering" meme. They made dope as fuck automatic weapons in WWII and that's it throughout all of history I swear.
Great job Germany, a decade of excellence in a field.
Reeeeeeeeee we do so much fucking moreee
>>53400873
>Damn shame we've only built one carrier though
Socialists?
>>53400989
>No cuckramp though please
That will never happen, ever. Though Rafales can theoretically takeoff from ramps, we do need a catapult to get maximum performance out of it. We might have to drop the nuclear reactors on our next design though.
Anyway, with the current budget a carrier class won't be built anytime soon, we'll probably have them around the time CDG retires
>>53400962
>using meters at all
Embarassing desu.
We have.. NONE
Funny considering we used to have Europe's biggest airbase.
>>53401067
>Socialists?
Yes and no. Pretty much every part of the political spectrum has fucked our late 80s to 90s procurement programmes, resulting on expensive Rafales, a single carrier, only 400 tanks ...
>>53399381
>Tell me about all the experience the Army has operating LHA's and AAV's.
Tell me about the last time we started a war with an amphibious landing or wasn't required at any time.
>>53401104
You could theoretically use Rafales on a STOBAR design (like Russia, India and China use), but that would be insane, it gives even worse performance than STOVL carriers (like the UK uses)
If you make another carrier it will definitely have catapults imo
>>53401274
We sold EMALS to fucking India of all places...
I'm sure France could get in on that.
>>53401400
It will have to EMALS or some other electromagnetic system. No ones going to build steam catapults now
>>53401451
>No ones going to build steam catapults now
Maybe Russia will finally have a working prototype soon :^)
>>53401508
We could sell them pic related
>>53401400
>implying the rest of NATO doesn't let the US do all the military spending
>>53401508
Memes aside, if Russians ever get around to building a new carrier I have a feeling it will be STOBAR. There's a lot of new stuff they would have to develop for a CATOBAR (or indeed STOVL) carrier. They would have to go balls to the wall and put unprecedented effort into the navy.
>>53401590
Hold up there chief lets not get hasty
>>53401671
Not really sure what you're trying to say here golden lel man.
>>53401846
Some of those really small countries should just pay into a pool of money for NATO to purchase shared assets (like those AWACS planes for example).
What is Luxembourg going to achieve by spending 2% on defence? Nothing, that's what. Better it goes to something useful
>>53402003
>shared assets
But what if multiple cunts need them at the same time, how will it be decided who gets to use it?
>>53402077
NATO has a command system, it's decided by who happens to be commanding the relevant branch at the relevant time. And I suppose countries could request the use of them. Shared NATO assets already exist, so there must be a system in use already.
Air transport would be an obvious one. Or air tankers.
>>53397757
Yes, they waste money and resources and give politicians temptations to use them for shitty wars
>>53392477
It's garbage and old as hell
>>53401681
Russia won't be building a new carrier in our lifetimes.
>>53402270
What they will and won't be building is essentially determined by the oil price, which none of us can predict
>>53402607
That and the fact they have zero shipyards capable of building ships over 20k tons.
>>53402686
If oil goes back up they can just build bigger shipyards. They're not incapable of this stuff, it's just that doing carriers properly is extremely expensive, so they would need to see significant improvements in their economic situation. Which is unlikely.
Then again, no one saw the oil crash coming
>>53402607
>oil price which none of us can predict
>he doesn't know what economic warfare and espionage is.
We raped russia hard for their actions in Crimea - without firing a shot.
Protip: stockpiles in the middle east of oil waiting to flood the market, just fuck russia
>>53402981
>Protip: stockpiles in the middle east of oil waiting to flood the market, just fuck russia
Woah wait you actually did some of that already? See gas has been pretty cheap as of lately
>>53401744
That you guys carry NATO so hard that everyone else can basically sit back and let you guys do most of the military spending
That should also be one of the biggest concerns for Europe. If you guys somehow pull out of NATO, we're fucked. Europe should not take the current situation for granted and pull their own weight
>>53402003
That's a good idea. There should also be more cooperation between countries. Like we have the same interests in the Caribbean yet I don't see any joint NL/UK/FR operations. Could easily be done for the simpler things like anti-piracy and anti-drug trafficking missions.
Maybe fun to know: right now we're in the process of setting up a joint Dutch/German tank battalion. We'll have control over our own tank squadron, but training and maintenance will be done together.
We're also sharing our mine hunter fleet with the Belgian Navy. There's a central command center for them in the Netherlands, and maintenance/training/logistics is done by the Belgians.
So how do you guys think the FCAS will end up ?
Manned ? Unmanned ?
Bomber ? Multirole ?
>>53403327
Yes. I'm being 100% serious. It's actually genius.
>>53403424
Lower gas prices as a result to Russia invading Crimea is mindblowing tbqh
Thats crazy
>>53400000
checked
>>53403408
>So how do you guys think the FCAS will end up ?
I doubt we'll ever see anything off the drawing board desu.
>>53404487
Well Europe's gotta have a 6th gen plane sooner or later.
>>53405198
Why would you assume that?
>>53405604
Because Rafales and Typhoons are not going to last forever.
![Maquina_vapor_Watt_ETSIIM[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/K9eOWZR.jpg "Maquina vapor Watt ETSIIM[1]")
