Post your cunt's biggest mistakes.
Pic related, country at the death of Casimir the Great. Poland was an ecenomic superpower at that time, that still held claims to both Silesia and Pomorze. They could've been easily reclaimed later, we had peace with almost all of our neighbours, except the Teutonics that could've been destroyed later, since Poland had fuckton of money and outside help. It was attractive country to be in. Even Italians swarmed to it's gates.
The mistake beggins when Casimir dies without an Piast heir to the throne, so we have a lot of options with who we might do Personal Union. Our dumb nobles chose Lithuania, because vast teritory that we can Polonize and spread our culture, a lot of rich land that the nobles can claim for themselves.
It was our biggest mistake in the history of Poland. It dragged us into wars against Muscovy and later Russia, which in the long term did more damage than wars with Teutons. We stopped being ecenomic power and started slowly declining despite numerous victories over the enemies.
Lithuania was a mistake.
Letting women vote, and/or letting leftists get into power in universities/media/government.
>>52857124
So you're saying Jadwiga should have married Wilhelm?
>>52857562
Doesn't matter, we would inherit anyone anyway.
>Pic related, country at the death of Casimir the Great. Poland was an ecenomic superpower at that time, that still held claims to both Silesia and Pomorze.
XDDDDDDD
>In 1325 Casimir married Aldona-Ona, the pagan daughter of Gediminas (Giedymin), duke of Lithuania. Baptized before the wedding, Aldona brought with her thousands of Polish prisoners of war (one chronicle tells of 24,000) as a sign of reconciliation between Poland and the then still-pagan Lithuania.
Keep in mind population of Lithuania was like 200,000.
>>52857629
>we would inherit anyone anyway
Anyone? What does that mean
>>52857124
>Post your cunt's biggest mistakes.
Allowing this German fuck to take the throne and a long time later allowing Fernando VII to sell the whole country to his french friends.
>>52857644
>XDDDDDDD
You're denying the facts?
>Keep in mind population of Lithuania was like 200,000.
With 1.000 of them being Lithuanian and Ruthenian majority.
It was Lithuania that benefited from the union, not Poland.
>>52857649
There was no country in the region that could be "leader" in PU with Poland, Poland would rule over their lands. Because our elite had strong nationalistic feelings back then.
going past the old border
>>52857857
can you post a map?
Until Jogaila baptized Lithuania, Lithuanians at 13-14 century oftenly invaded places settled by poles (especially Krokuvian places) and from there transported not a few captives that would become slaves later. Most oftenly they served in Lithuanias grand dukes' estates various difficult and dirty jobs - looked after animals, horses, cleaned their muck(shit) and so on. Those estates were in various places, but the main ones were around Vilnius, especially near Rūdninkų forest, there those captives mostly slaved away. Poles-slaves even if they wanted, they couldn't bath, because they hadn't such chance. As they spreadthe bad smell, it was one of the indications which showed slaves origin. Exactly from those times until nowadays in Eastern Lithuania, Lithuanians call local polish-speakers - šūdlenkiai(shitpoles), and poles from those times called invaders Lithuanians as - "pogany litwiny"(pagans Lithuanians). At those times for poles it was the biggest enemy and invader symbol.
After Jogaila married with pole Jadvyga, he released many poles slaves. Some sources mention even about ~100 000, but it looks like it's increased a bit. But it was sure that many Lithuanian estates had these poles-slaves. Those slaves, who stayed in Lithuania and their progenies were called "šūdlenkiai"(shitpoles) ever after. Just like that the word "šūdlenkis" came to nowadays, even though there not so many people know about its historical origins. By the way, bondmen who were slavonised were also called like that and after first World-War it was a general word for all polish-speakers in Eastern Lithuania.
>>52857913
>Until Jogaila baptized Lithuania, Lithuanians at 13-14 century oftenly invaded places settled by poles (especially Krokuvian places) and from there transported not a few captives that would become slaves later. Most oftenly they served in Lithuanias grand dukes' estates various difficult and dirty jobs - looked after animals, horses, cleaned their muck(shit) and so on. Those estates were in various places, but the main ones were around Vilnius, especially near Rūdninkų forest, there those captives mostly slaved away. Poles-slaves even if they wanted, they couldn't bath, because they hadn't such chance. As they spreadthe bad smell, it was one of the indications which showed slaves origin. Exactly from those times until nowadays in Eastern Lithuania, Lithuanians call local polish-speakers - šūdlenkiai(shitpoles), and poles from those times called invaders Lithuanians as - "pogany litwiny"(pagans Lithuanians). At those times for poles it was the biggest enemy and invader symbol.
So? It was normal pagan thing to do. To invade others.
>After Jogaila married with pole Jadvyga, he released many poles slaves. Some sources mention even about ~100 000, but it looks like it's increased a bit. But it was sure that many Lithuanian estates had these poles-slaves. Those slaves, who stayed in Lithuania and their progenies were called "šūdlenkiai"(shitpoles) ever after. Just like that the word "šūdlenkis" came to nowadays, even though there not so many people know about its historical origins. By the way, bondmen who were slavonised were also called like that and after first World-War it was a general word for all polish-speakers in Eastern Lithuania.
This is true.
Want to post more? LIDF
>>52857913
>After Jogaila married with pole Jadvyga
pls no
>>52857124
Liberum Veto
>>52857878
>>52858129
>Liberum Veto
Poland-Lithuania was too corrupted at this point. There was no reason in trying to recover it.
Also, another big mistake was fucking with Ottomans when Habsburgs cried for help, for free. Not Vienna in 1683, but before that, at the first siege of Vienna.
We could've at least asked them for Silesia in return, if not. They can go fuck themselves with the goatfuckers.
>>52858165
>All is lost
>>52857124
Not invading the Netherlands and Luxembourg during the Franco-Prussian War like Leopold II wanted, due to the neutrality shit. Leopold saw Luxembourg and parts of the Netherlands (Limbourg especially, and North Brabant to a lesser degree) as integral parts of Belgium that have been taken away during independence.
>>52858383
Just wait till Russia has another "Smuta".
>>52857124
casimir led jews (not native slavic ones but germanic ashkenazi scum) into poland
this was a fucking mistake too
>>52858405
>tfw it will never happen
why live
>>52858383
what hurt are
1. the loss of our third biggest city Viipuri
2. the access to the north sea and the right to north pole oil along that narrow strip
just the old borders would have given us all of this
>>52858451
It was. Especially shown during II republic of Poland and communist rise to power.
>>52858490
I don't understand, East Limbourg, North Brabant and Zealandic Flanders have never been part of Belgium. They were under direct control as the generaliteitslanden, and their peoplestill had Dutch as the dialect of prestige, as opposed to the France in the rest of the Southern Netherlands. Don't forget, the reason for rebellion was primarily the removal French as an official language, Roman Catholics weren't persecuted.
>>52858412
With great anticipation
Last time a finnishborn general Jacob de la Gardie led 15000 finnish and estonian men and conquered Novgorod for six years, until they went and conquered Moscow, being one of the very few to ever do so. Later they were returning to the back-then Swedish Empire and completely rekt by you, the poles.
GG Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth, GG
>>52857124
>Lithuania was a mistake.
Your birth was a mistake. One of our greatest mistakes was inviting the Teutons to Poland/Baltic in the first place.
>>52857509
I'd say white guilt is what it boils down to
>>52858861
Good stuff. Good Stuff.
>>52858926
Then it was the other way around.
>>52858873
Are you really blind to the fact that getting in bed with Lithuania dragged us into pointless wars and complete destruction of the Polish state?
Why do you think everyone jokes about us now? Because we lost all the respect when we got wiped off the map.
allying with nazis
>>52858979
>Lithuania dragged us into pointless wars and complete destruction of the Polish state?
Eh, we won the wars with Muscovy and stopped their expansion. Wtf are you talking about. Years later even taking Moscow. What your talking about happened hundreds years later and was the result of many different factors and our own mistakes.
P.S. Three Germans/Germanians partitioned Poland.
>>52859114
>Eh, we won the wars with Muscovy and stopped their expansion. Wtf are you talking about. Years later even taking Moscow. What your talking about happened hundreds years later and was the result of many different factors and our own mistakes.
Yes, but we also lost Silesia and Pomorze, which were 'cores' of Polish Crown.
We allowed foreigner kings to decide about the future of our country. 90% of them were total scum and didn't think about Polish state at all.
Just like Sigismund III or John II. Jagiełło wasn't a saint either.
We did everything right, but the game was rigged from the start. We could not hope to prevail against the imperialistic appetites of the westerners bordering us.
>>52857124
I cringe every time I see Polish intellectuals talks about history.
it's like North Korea seeking attention.
>>52859379
Very nice argument, żmudzin.
>>52858979
Its not that you are not respected, but it's that we can't take you seriously. You are simply so goofy as a people
really
>>52859481
It doesn't matter. We aren't feared anymore. We're not even the same people.
We will not recover from it historically, unless we do Third Reich v2 Polish edition.
>>52859218
>Yes, but we also lost Silesia and Pomorze, which were 'cores' of Polish Crown.
That happened in a early part of our history, long before allying/uniting with Lithuania.
>90% of them were total scum and didn't think about Polish state at all.
That is highly untrue. And please, stop with this Zygmund III was bad meme. He wasn't perfect, had a hard on for Sweden, but he was above average as a king.
And during Jagiełło's time real prosperity for Poland begun. Him polonising himself was in Poland's favour as well.
>>52859481
>>52859556
Hell we don't even own Poland anymore.
>>52859612
>That happened in a early part of our history, long before allying/uniting with Lithuania.
Casimir had plans to recover it.
>That is highly untrue. And please, stop with this Zygmund III was bad meme. He wasn't perfect, had a hard on for Sweden, but he was above average as a king.
Anon pls. He wasted oportunity to place his son at the Muscovian throne. He also wanted to sell the Polish crown, literal fucking crown. He dragged us into wars against Sweden, which demolished us beyond hope. We became a fucktoy of Europe.
>And during Jagiełło's time real prosperity for Poland begun. Him polonising himself was in Poland's favour as well.
Do you really believe that meme? It wasn't his incompetent reign, that caused prosperity, it was rich Ukrainian lands. Jagiełło was a shit ruler, he was sucking Habsburg dick like no one ever.
>importing the slaves at all
>not freeing the slaves right off the bat
>discouraging the freed slaves from integrating for 100 years
>>52857124
>It dragged us into wars against Muscovy and later Russia, which in the long term did more damage than wars with Teutons.
The largest mistake was 966 and katolization of Poland. If you just came to holy Pope of Konstantinopol, you would be allies with Russians.
>>52859955
The biggest mistake was ever accepting abrahamic faiths of any kind.
We couldn't be allies anyway, since when Russia started to form from Muscovy you claimed Third Rome title.
>>52859732
> He wasted oportunity to place his son at the Muscovian throne.
Dude, do you even realise what mess Muscovy was at that time? His son would be assassinated within weeks, like many others before his proposal. Zygmunt knew he would loose his son.
>He also wanted to sell the Polish crown, literal fucking crown.
Now give me proof to this meme.
>He dragged us into wars against Sweden, which demolished us beyond hope.
Eh, it didn't demolish us. Literally what? You do realise his war was fought mostly on Swedish sea/soil by joint Polish-Swedish forces? Also, Poland never had a stronger navy than under Zygmunt III.
>It wasn't his incompetent reign, that caused prosperity, it was rich Ukrainian lands.
Ivan the Terrible would steamroll separate Lithuania and Poland if we didn't unite together. This unification was needed for our survival and we got south Ruthenian lands.
>Hell we don't even own Poland anymore.
Jews do.
>>52860340
>Dude, do you even realise what mess Muscovy was at that time? His son would be assassinated within weeks, like many others before his proposal. Zygmunt knew he would loose his son.
No, it wasn't the main reason. Zygmunt wanted the throne for himself.
>Now give me proof to this meme.
Literally google it.
>Eh, it didn't demolish us. Literally what? You do realise his war was fought mostly on Swedish sea/soil by joint Polish-Swedish forces? Also, Poland never had a stronger navy than under Zygmunt III.
Wasc o Potopie słyszał?
>Ivan the Terrible would steamroll separate Lithuania and Poland if we didn't unite together. This unification was needed for our survival and we got south Ruthenian lands.
He would have steamrolled Lithuania, not Poland. It was Lithuania that benefited from the union.
Invading shitholes nobody cares about in an attempt to make them think a certain way
Soft power and cultural encroachment are much better options than the shit we're doing now
>>52860526
>Zygmunt wanted the throne for himself.
He wanted, but didn't.
>Literally google it.
No google, give proofs of what you claim.
>Wasc o Potopie słyszał?
Kurwa, Zygmunt nie żył w czasie potopu...
>He would have steamrolled Lithuania
Ivan had crazy aspirations, Poland would be next.
>It was Lithuania that benefited from the union.
AND Poland. Poland benefited actually more.
>>52860754
>Kurwa, Zygmunt nie żył w czasie potopu...
Ale "bratanie" sie ze szwecją doprowadziło do potopu.
Nie sra tam gdzie się je.
Olso. Postuj więcej w innych tridach, bo od miecha Cię tam brakuje.
>>52860828
Nie sra się tam gdzie się je*
>>52860828
>Ale "bratanie" sie ze szwecją doprowadziło do potopu.
Co doprowadziło do potopu było to była nasza wewnętrzna słabość, powstanie kozackie i aspirację sąsiadów.
>Olso. Postuj więcej w innych tridach, bo od miecha Cię tam brakuje.
Przecież chyba i tak nic specjalnego i tak nie przegapiłem.
