USSR built power plants, dams and factories in secular democratic Afghanistan.
USA can barely keep the lights on or water running there.
Who were the bad guys again?
USA killed over 1 million civilians in Afghanistan, created, trained, equiped and funded Islamic terrorism to destroy secular democratic Afghanistan
http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/coldwar/interviews/episode-17/brzezinski1.html
>mfw he's absolutely right
>>52795222
He's not right, as a matter of fact, wrong on almost every count
>>52795188
t. Noam Chomsky
>>52795188
Finland stop your grandfathers didn't die in the snow for you to post this shit
>>52795242
>mfw he's absolutely right
>>52795263
This
>>52795253
Sweden yes
>>52795188
Nice try Ivan go back to Russia
The only bad thing the US did was not completely genociding all of afghanistan and its surrounding countries.
>>52795253
My grandfather didn't die in the snow. He died aged 85 after a long and successful life. He spoke fluent German and taught me everything I know about German Leica film cameras.
>>52795350
Jesus Christ, It was German autism that spilled over into Finland.
>>52795401
No, finns have been the most autistic people in Europe since the the early medieval times
afghan war vet here.
he's right.
even though authoritative socialism is shit tier compared with libertarian socialism in the long run
I have to wake up at 9AM
>tfw wageslave
So I'll make it short
Civilian casualties:
>Soviet: 850k - 1.5 million
>Americans: Estimated at "over 26k", so wiki page "Civilian casualties in the war in Afghanistan (2001–present)"
Don't forget that the Soviet War displaced 5 million Afghans.
Soviets turned a decent country into the worst in the world. The Americans kicked out the Taliban government and put the country on an upward trajectory.
The Americans funded the Afghan mujahideen, not the Taliban or the Arab mujahideen.
The Taliban is a Pakistani creation, this is widely known.
>>52795474
d3l3t3 th!s
>>52795338
You could pass history at a historically revisionist US Christian madrassa of your choice with those views.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet%E2%80%93Afghan_War#1986:_Stinger_Missile_and_.22Stinger_effect.22
>>52795515
Honestly, Afghanistan is just a fucking hopeless country, it's doomed.
But the Americans did well. I have some Afghan buddies who said that the country has improved massively since the Taliban days, which is not hard to understand. Fucking music was illegal (or so they told me).
>>52795560
Why would I care about the Stinger missiles tho?
>>52795188
the USSR built a lot of things
people forget that it essentially was a Technocracy, and Engineers utopia
every leader after Stalin was trained in Engineering.
but this was also the reason why it was such shit, because engineers think like engineers and in turn treated the nation like a giant machine, and people as cogs (as Stalin famously said)
in trying to plan every aspect of the economy in all benevolence, they created a monster that oppressed the masses and lead to deep issue across the union.
the planned economy was doomed to failure, and this only became more apparent as the economy became more and more complex, people's standards of living dropped rapidly, ethnic tension rose, and these autocratic technicians were so narrow in their field of expertise that they had no solutions or abstract ideas to save the USSR.
only brainwashed Americans think the USSR as a state was any more "evil" than America was (Stalin was objectively pretty awful though) it was just a monumental failure as an idea.
>>52795626
stahp
>>52795677
Honestly America is a good country, saviour of Europe too.
>>52795474
Dumb Arab Islamist.
>The supplying of billions of dollars in arms to the Afghan mujahideen militants was one of the CIA's longest and most expensive covert operations.[44] The CIA provided assistance to the insurgents through the Pakistani secret services, Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), in a program called Operation Cyclone. At least 3 billion in U.S. dollars were funneled into the country to train and equip troops with weapons. Together with similar programs by Saudi Arabia, Britain's MI6 and SAS, Egypt, Iran, and the People's Republic of China,[45] the arms included Stinger missiles, shoulder-fired, antiaircraft weapons that they used against Soviet helicopters. Pakistan's secret service, Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), was used as an intermediary for most of these activities to disguise the sources of support for the resistance.
>The early foundations of al-Qaida were allegedly built in part on relationships and weaponry that came from the billions of dollars in U.S. support for the Afghan mujahideen during the war to expel Soviet forces from that country.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zbigniew_Brzezinski#Afghanistan
>As well as money, Muslim countries provided thousands of volunteer fighters known as "Afghan Arabs", who wished to wage jihad against the atheist communists. Notable among them was a young Saudi named Osama bin Laden, whose Arab group eventually evolved into al-Qaeda.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet%E2%80%93Afghan_War#Impact
>>52795626
the only mistake America made in Afghanistan was going top war in Iraq at the same time, the war was quickly being mopped up until Bush rolled the dice and went into Iraq as well.
>>52795771
>Hey Ahmed what should we wear to go met the most powerful man in the world? Should we wear suits or shoul-
>NO WEAR YOUR GOAT HERDING RAGS INSHALLAH
>>52795771
Nothing in that first paragraph contradicts what I said. I said Americans funded Afghan Mujahideen.
Which is understandable, it was a Cold War. The Soviet Union funded the Vietcong.
As for your second paragraph, it says Muslim countries, not America. Yes, some Muslim countries funded the Arab Mujahideen.
>dumb Arab
I don't appreciate you calling me dumb, especially when I've just schooled you for the second time, Ivan.
>tfw the US always supported the most evil dictators during the cold war
>tfw the USSR suffered a collapse, and now it is demonized as the most evil thing in history
>>52795474
Afghan here and therefore an expert on the topic, this guy is right.
>>52795915
>and now it is demonized as the most evil thing in history
by no one
if anything since we actually have information on life in the USSR now people have a much higher opinion of it.
only thing people say is that socialism/communism is trash, which it is.
also, 1979 afghanistan war, reminds me today's Syrian civil war
>>52795984
To be honest I do remember reading a post on here once from an Afghan guy who claimed Soviets were great and his uncle who was a professor was killed by the Mujahideen for "knowing too much", Pol Pot-esque.
So mileage may vary, although it's objective truth that the Soviet Invasion was more merciless and harmful.
>>52796032
nah my dad was an officer in the army and fought against the mujahideen and even he says the soviets weren't too good - better than everything else that followed however
the soviets were great while there was peace, they did a lot in terms of helping develop the country but once war broke out they weren't so nice
>>52796032
a lot of old Afghan communists loved the USSR
he was a brave moderate rebel.....just like those FSA guys in Syria :)
>>52795915
>>tfw the USSR suffered a collapse, and now it is demonized as the most evil thing in history
THIS
>This rewriting of history is spreading Europe's poison. "Blaming the USSR for the second world war is not only absurd – it boosts the heirs of the Nazis' wartime collaborators"
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2009/sep/09/second-world-war-soviet-pact
>In his introduction to this week's Guardian history of the war, the neoconservative historian Niall Ferguson declared that Stalin was "as much an aggressor as Hitler". Last month, the ostensibly more liberal Orlando Figes went further, insisting the Molotov-Ribbentrop non-aggression pact was "the licence for the Holocaust".
>Given that the Soviet Union played the decisive military role in Hitler's defeat at the cost of 25 million dead, it's scarcely surprising that Russians are outraged by such accusations. When the Russian president Dmitry Medvedev last week denounced attempts to draw parallels between the role of the Nazis and the Soviet Union as a "cynical lie", he wasn't just speaking for his government, but the whole country – and a good deal of the rest of the world besides.
>>52796145
man, i thought finns were butthurt towards russia
>>52795875
>I said Americans funded Afghan Mujahideen.
And Afghanistan is extremist shithole now.
>The Soviet Union funded the Vietcong.
And Vietnam is peaceful nice developing country now.
>>52795188
The existence of USSR is wrong.
Stalin disoriented working conditions and created massive bureaucracy, completely changing the country and not listening to Lenin.
Daily reminder that Trotzky was right.
>>52798398
>Trotzky
fuck him....i would kill him again if i could
>>52798508
>Mexico
>>52798533
it's an honor that he got murdered here
>>52795401
>Jesus Christ, It was German autism that spilled over into Finland.
Underrated comment.
>>52795188
>finn defending USSR
>>52798610
Yeah it's kinda weird when we should be disliking both.
>the taliban existed and were fighting the soviets
>>52795401
It's a joke man, I imagine him now snickering under his teeth beneath the guise of
>>52798398
Daily reminder that Trotzky just wanna be Stalin himself.
>>52795188
There was a thread were I explained a lot, and advice some interesting books and sources, both eng and rus. You can't expect them to accept something that goes contrary their worldveiw.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/8371490/Afgantsy-The-Russians-in-Afghanistan-1979-1989-by-Rodric-Braithwaite-review.html
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.centrasia.ru%2FnewsA.php%3Fst%3D1214120820&sandbox=1
>>52800121
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdul_Ahad_Mohmand
>>52795188
Yes. Only facts are matter.
>>52801033
>that pic
so, are the americans admitting that they fucked up the place?
>>52801033
>11 Đ´eĐº
>@USEmbassyKabul owner found beheaded in his apartment.
>>52801241
Any place they visited with democracy is fucked up now: Lybia, Iraq, Afganistan, Syria.
fucking hypocrites
>>52795188
USA and USSR pursued only their self-interest in Afghanistan. And both killed many innocent civilians. Global policy is the dirty affair, there is no bad or good guys.
t. Home Russian :DD
>>52800078
Daily reminder that Trotsky didn't fucked up the worker's council
Except creating shitholes by robbing the countries of their resources and never giving anything in return.
Compare western Germany with Eastern Germany, if you don't believe me.
Western Germany - Marshall's plan, America literally pumping milions of dollars into their ecenomy, capitalism.
Eastern Germany - No Marshall Plan's plan, socialism instead of capitalism. Looks worse than eastern Poland.
>>52801993
just compare economical losses incured by USSR and the US
>>52801993
>Eastern Germany
>Looks worse than eastern Poland.
Not true. Poland is literally still hell on earth despite EU and Chinese pumping Billions into your corrupt economy.
>>52802220
>not true because i said so!!!
>>52801993
>>52802299
dont you realize that your prosperety depends on you and only you
that's not commies or russkies made you as you said " hell on earth" but only you so stop crying and complaing
you have had 25 years of post sovet times to rebuild you country
>>52802299
East Berlin 2015
>thinking anyone cares about a shitty border town
>>52802386
But we didn't have the head start Germany had.
Also Germany wasn't glassed to the ground.
>>52802220
poles didn't know what corruption is before
now they will learn, they got on the same path as hungary a real shame
>>52801414
No you don't get it, the US HAD to tear down secular/atheist regimes, 'cause atheism is for COMMIES
>>52803035
R.I.P. Gaddafi
>>52802386
>you have had 25 years of post sovet times to rebuild you country
do you even realise how many funds were funneled into east germany post 91?
And it's still shit compared to west germany.
>>52796032
Yeah, that guy was me. To be honest, soviets were harmless untill the mojahadeen was armed by the americans. My dad was a translator during his military conscription and he had to translate a lot of documents from russian to farsi (he studied in soviet union) that contained information about new government facilities like hospitals and universities etc.
Untill mojahedeen became a thing, then suddenly all the documents were about military strategies, weapons and enforcements. Basically due to american influence this country became a shithole. The mojahadeen blew up every cultural and progressive facility, because of their conservative way of thinking, e.g. universities etc.
Everything else you hear imo is western indoctrination, because you had to be there in afghanistan to understand the situation. I hated afghanistan too untill I went there and saw what happened with my own eyes. It is impossible to believe that such events were allowed to take place and the whole world is improperly informed about the situation. This is because of the cold war, where anti-communism propaganda was emmited through all media.
Note that I do not have communistic idealogy, but there was nothing wrong with it back then. American influence gave cavemen weapons of mass destruction and western society was given weapons of mass deception.
People forget that Afghanistan before the communists was not Islamist
Women had the right to vote in 1921
It was a presidential republic from 1973-1979 which was modernizing the country
Commies as well as Mujahideen ruined everything with their radical reforms, lack of regard for civilians and economic failures
Oh and btw, the Commies forced all intellectuals to flee the country or be murdered
They killed ALOT of them
>>52803578
>Commies forced all intellectuals to flee the country or be murdered
LIES. Proof is sitting in Finnish parliament.
>>52795188
Kill yourself.
>>52803770
It's true.
An Afghan member of parliament in Canada said her uncle was abducted from university for being anti-commie
A university dean in California fled because of Commies too
Why is this even surprising to you? Communists did this in every country
Viipuri
>Soviet invasion of Afghanistan
When will this meme end?
The Soviets were asked to assist the legal Afghan government in combating the Islamist terrorists funded, trained and armed by the unholy US-Brit-Saudi-Paki alliance. They entered the country legally according to international law.
Something similar has happened in Syria, where the US-Brit-Saudi-Turk-Qatari alliance is backing Islamist terrorists and Russia and Iran are there to counter their terrorism which will only destroy another country in the region and ensure more profits for the sinful Western imperialists who's idea of prosperity is always at the expense of millions of innocent people.
>>52804123
This lad knows.
fucking korean trotskyists
what has the world come to
I wish America would die.
I wonder what the entirety of the butthurt weakling countries would do who are now clinging on their legs and licking their piss so dilligently.
It would be an enjoyable sight to see them cower in fear and be spineless cucks, prostituting themselves to their new masters.
>>52804514
You are only hope Germany.
Make a Europe empire and put the Americans in their place.
In 20-30 years I expect no European countries to be taking orders from USA anymore. Be your own man.
>>52795188
The USSR murdered there president and plunged the country into civil war. They pretty much did to Afghanistan what we did to iran, and 70% of all civilian deaths in the afghan war are from the tailiban not only that but life in Afghanistan has improved remarkebly since the 90s.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/nov/30/afghanistan-life-expectancy-rising-survey
>>52804824
It would be even better if the US. actually did something about Pakistan funding, sheltering and training the Taliban.
>>52795626
Pictures were fucking illegal, they shot the foriegn aid workers who were giving polio vacines, which led to a shit ton of people dying from polio.
>>52804922
Agreed, pakistan is shit tier i think most of the world can agree on that, iam not sure why we support them.
>>52802386
>>52802386
>dont you realize that your prosperety depends on you and only you
>your prosperity depends on you and only you
>anything depends on you and only you
worst bullshit I ever heard
also I'm not really complaining we did good since 25 years but certainly Western Europe and the USA had 40 years of developement more
no former soviet republic/eastern bloc country is on par with capitalists - atleast if you don't include greece, I guess Czech Republic already is ahead of Greece and Poland is surpassing it this year
>>52804824
Fuck off with your revisionist history murricuck. The """"""civil war"""""" happened just like today's Syria, where your CIA and Saudi oilniggers created Islamist "moderate rebels" to overthrow a government not favourable to your imperialist agenda. How many wine countries and tens of millions of people have to suffer and have their livelihoods destroyed until you retards from the States understand the crimes your CIA, DoD and DoS have been doing continuously for decades and put an end to it once and for all?
I got happy in 2008 when you're markets crashed, hoping that will put an end top your country's adventurism, but it only put it on hold and paved the way for more efficient destruction of countries like blow you did to Libya instead of your tactics in Iraq.
Honestly, why do you think the world hates you? Your government had been destroying the world one country at a time (sometimes more) and then we get naive drones like you who believe your CIA approved """"""free"""""" media and repeat their lies.
>>52801993
Let the morons who have never lived in a soviet or former soviet country have there delusions.
>>52805036
Because the US doesn't give two damns or a fuck about that. Why do you think US unconditionally supports Saudi Arabia, the country where people are beheaded for witchcraft, where atheists are considered terrorists by law and the constitution is literally the Quran?
The US has never been a source for "good". They're just pursuing their zero-sum grand game of robbing the lives of others to improve theirs. The sad thing is that the average American and taxpayer don't gain anything and only lose from these actions but they're stupid and naive enough to support it all this time.
>>52805276
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Storm-333
Its not "revisionist" history, its just history, we supported rebels who later became both the northern alliance and the tailbian, but it was mostly moderates like pic related who won the war.
>>52795675
>only brainwashed Americans think the USSR as a state was any more "evil" than America was
You clearly haven't talked to anyone from the Butthurt Belt. :^)
>>52805503
But pakistan is clearly detrimental to our foriegn policy intrests, we dont really get anything out of supporting them.
>>52795675
> every leader after Stalin was trained in Engineering.
Stalin himself was interested in engineering. Even tried to read blueprints of some vehicles, like airplanes
>>52795675
Alot of stalins issues might have had something to do with his awful childhood. Still no one can deny the mans intelligence, certainly coming from the child of a shoe maker and becoming one of the most powerful and influential men in history is quite impressive.
>>52803482
Perhaps because your family supported the communists you have a biased view, like when south vietnamese say Ho Chi mein was a dictator and murderer but northerners say the same about viet dem.
>>52805690
You have a playground where you can train your "moderate rebels" to fuck up India, China, Iran, and Russia all from the same location.
>>52802299
What do you mean "German side"? Was it a segregated city or is that the border?
>>52806086
Well memed friendo.
>>52804751
>This role-playing
>>52804514
When will you remove USA bases?
>>52806054
Not really. My family was very liberal, but when communism came, they did not really care. It did not affect people as directly as it had when "capitalism" arrived.
Good thread. And now WE SHALL SING A SONG:
https://youtu.be/wKDD1H-Hlpc
>Communism deprives no man of the power to appropriate the products of society; all that it does is to deprive him of the power to subjugate the labour of others by means of such appropriations.
>>52809104
Why is an undressed pregnant woman holding up this flag.
>>52795188
Post-War USSR was only good for my country.
That's the sad truth.
>>52805923
And then look what came after him. Khrushchev was the son of a coal miner and not fully literate until the age of 30.
>>52805923
>Stalin's talent
>>52809676
Basically, he just took whatever ideas of his colleagues that he liked and discarded what he didn't like. Then killed them and took credit for their ideas.
>>52809676
All mostly Jews. :)
>>52809736
>Then killed them and took credit for their ideas.
Killed the Jews.
>>52809736
Welp "Socialism in one country" was prime idea of Bukharin
Too bad he got purged
>>52809788
Kind of. Actually, Lenin was an admirer of Jews. He said they were more progressive and forward-thinking than the Russians.
They also "built" these little mines and put them in little dolls and dropped thousands of them from planes.
One of the reasons you saw so many child amputees.
>>52809950
>Lenin was an admirer of Jews.
Lenin WAS a Jew.
>>52811223
Thats not true, the shape helped with aero dynamics, and unfortunately children mistook them for toys.
>>52809676
>
Stalin here looks like Borat saying "great success"
>>52809104
http://www.tuttartpitturasculturapoesiamusica.com/2013/03/Kathrin-Longhurst.html
The artist is named Kathrin Longhurst; she apparently specializes in sexy paintings of girls in commiewear.
>>52803482
>Basically due to american influence this country became a shithole. The mojahadeen blew up every cultural and progressive facility, because of their conservative way of thinking, e.g. universities etc.
Newsflash: Afghanistan was always a medieval shithole outside of Kabul.
>>52813081
NOPE
>>52795188
Ryssä pois Suomesta.
>>52798663
t.TheFinnishBolshevik
plz tell me your this guy https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCvdjsJtifsZoShjcAAHZpA
>>52809676
Seriously, what the fuck was wrong with stalin?
How would the ussr have turned out if he'd died in 1920?
>2000+15
>people still think communism is a good idea and with some minor adjustments the USSR would've superseded the USA
>>52816555
pretty shit
>no rapid industrialization
>ussr would be a shithole
>nazi scum would win the war
>Trotsky would side with Hitler in the war
>>52816678
it is a good idea
>mfw people believe c(r)apitalism is a reliable socioeconomic for the future
>>52805796
he was, but people like Khrushchev and Brezhnev were part of the new wave of soviet engineers who came after the "bourgeoisie specialists" were largely either purged or enslaved by Stalin
Lenin was a technophile as well, his whole concept of communism was of a technological utopia where man would literally become master and control the machinery that made up the means of production, rather than remaining ignorant slaves of it.
basically if everyone knew the inner workings of the technology then the society as a whole could be uplifted and the commoners would be less reliant on specialists.
its admirable and they did make great strides in this regard, but the big issue was just how narrow Soviet education became.
pic related is a good book relating to how narrowinded the soviet decision makers and citizenry had become, not merely in the modern progressive sense, but they had completely become stuck in their ways and unable to embrace change.
>>52805923
Stalin knew how soviet communism really worked, and that was with fear, when he died and Khrushchev dismantled the apparatus of fear which held the system together it began to disintegrate.
>>52816678
the very idea of planned economics is flawed
>>52816678
Really? Mind quoting the idiots, so I can laugh at them?
>>52795771
The Northern Alliance also had mujahideen roots
>>52816867
>the free market is soooo good
>>52795188
A Finn defending the Reds too. Interesting.
>>52816826
>its admirable and they did make great strides in this regard, but the big issue was just how narrow Soviet education became
It's true. The arts and humanities were totally suppressed and people expected to be soulless automatons. It was kind of like the Vulcans in Star Trek who were 100% completely logical and had no use for human emotions.
>>52795188
>USA killed over 1 million civilians
*Sunni and Shia infighting killed over 1 million civilians.
>>52816717
>nazi scum would win the war
Stalin was in power from 1922 to the 1952, that predates WW2, and the nazis having any influence in germany.
>Trotsky would side with Hitler in the war
Assuming hitler still took power and the war still happened, what makes you say that?
>no rapid industrialization
Would this be as important with no WW2?
>ussr would be a shithole
But with no great purges, millions of people are still alive. Presumably the culture would be more relaxed and less autocratic without Stalinism, so in that regard it would be less of a shithole.
>>52817152
its as good as the people are
when people only care to be passive consumers then they end up getting used
when people take responsibility for themselves through some form of popular union then it can look very different.
also Brazil is a hyper-socialist shithole so not a great example
under socialism/communism the people have no power or ability to unite since the whim of the people would dissrupt the "plan" for the economy and therefore cause social disruptuion.
in the soviet union entire trainloads of goods would ride for thousands of miles for no reason and end up either being dumped, or arriving long after the demand had died down just for the sake of sticking to the plan and keeping things within the vision of the bureaucrats.
the soviets only replaced the financial elite with a bureaucratic/technocratic one, with the results being well known.
>>52816826
We flirted with a socialistic technocracy in the mid-20th century as well. Ultimately the baby boomers rebelled against it.
>>52795253
They don't get snow in the middle east :^)
>>52817312
I know people will scoff about such things and blather about "the liberals" but really a broader education really does create better and more flexible people, its the entire reason why the United States and the UK were so powerful, because they emphasized not only technical skill, but humanistic learning.
one issue now in the west is we have split the two up so people only end up with very narrow views of the world, either from the purely technical or purely humanist sides.
>>52813175
Sorry but Afghanistan and Iran were never "modern" or Westernized in the 70s except for a couple urban areas no matter how many old pics of girls in Tehran wearing miniskirts that you post.
>>52817520
I think the bigger irony is more that the humanities are dominated by far left commies who glorified a society that would put them in labor camps and where there was no artistic freedom.
>>52817435
the difference was the Soviets felt that the common people were incapable of being rational participants within the system while the Americans of the 30s-60s thought that the citizens were indeed rational and educated enough to play an active role within democracy and the economy.
>>52817581
that and the soviet union was run by hardline STEMfags as their ultimate wet-dream
>>52817435
I mean, yeah. This creepily Orwellian IBM ad from the 50s does remind you a lot of Soviet posters. We claimed to oppose the commies back then, but we were more like them in the Eisenhower years than most of us would care to admit.
>>52817372
>Stalin was in power from 1922 to the 1952, that predates WW2, and the nazis having any influence in germany.
But still,Hitler would still get in office and start WW2
>what makes you say that?
He was a revisionist,he would most likely (if not surely) side with Hitler
>Would this be as important with no WW2?
No it wouldn't
>>52817581
>>52817662
Well, back in the 50s you had all the Bohemian intellectuals like Sarte and Arthur Miller who were raging leftards. Like they'd be allowed to publish any of their works in the USSR in fact I'm pretty sure most of their stuff was banned there anyway.
>>52817742
Dunno about the Soviet Union specifically, but existentialist philosophers were definitely on the banned list in Mao's China. The official story on them was that "So-called existentialists like Sartre may claim to be communists, but a close analysis will show that existentialism is a product of the nihilism and angst of capitalist society."
>>52817419
>Brazil is a hyper-socialist shithole so not a great example
Brazil (pre-capitalist reform) : income per capita grew by 3.1% in the 1960s and 1970s
Brazil (after capitalist reform) : income per capita grew only by 1.1% from 1980 to 2009
>in the soviet union
the government of the soviet union was state capitalist
>>52817662
The mid-20th century was a very strange, out-of-ordinary time in American history when we embraced a planned, ordnung, statist culture. After the boomers came along, they pretty much restored us to our more normal way of being a slightly loose, sloppy, libertarian nation, the way we'd always been pre-FDR.
>>52817668
>But still,Hitler would still get in office and start WW2
I'm disputing this.
>He was a revisionist,he would most likely (if not surely) side with Hitler
What makes him a revisionist and not Stalin? They would have come up with their versions of communism at the same time right?
Moreover what makes you say he'd side with Hitler?
>>52817988
It's funny how much nostalgia goggles led us to believe the 1950s was the good old days and the norm for Americans before hippies ruined everything when in truth all that really happened was that we returned to normalcy after that weird flirtation with statism in 1933 to 65.
>>52817662
maybe superficially, but at there core the US and the USSR were very divided in how they approached governance.
>>52817859
>muh no true gommunism
yea no thanks, maybe read on what soviet life was actually like, it was incredibly far from anything capitalist, everything was planned to the most minute of details.
>mfw the French Military only cause a single civilian casualty in Afghanistan, and it was a woman in a car that refused to stop
How is the US so bad at counter insurgency
>>52818240
people really don't even consider the existence of history before WWII or what life was actually like in the early 20th and 19th centuries.
aside from being more sexually open, the 60s merely brought back the strong individualism of the past, and with it the self centered attitudes and vapid consumerism, except this time on a far wider scale.
>>52805378
oy vey that image is triggering me
please delete your post goy
>>52818320
> it was incredibly far from anything capitalist
so fuckin what?There are many ideologies that are anti-capitalistic and not only communism
And yes the soviet union was NOT communist.In communism you dont have a state or money which the USSR had.
>>52811223
>Holding a butterflybomb in his hand (PFM3)
This triggers me, even though it must be training equipment
>>52818320
>maybe superficially, but at there core the US and the USSR were very divided in how they approached governance
Well yeah, but then you could also look at Sweden which had a socialistically planned ordnung society back then, yet had still another approach to it. The point is, the 20th century was the golden age of socialist planning par excellence and then after the 60s, it started to fade from popularity.
Nearly every nation in the 50s-60s had a socialistic model, but depending on the country, it could take any form from mild social democracy all the way to North Korea.
>>52805378
Let the morons who have never lived in a capitalist country have their delusions
>>52818584
>And yes the soviet union was NOT communist.In communism you don't have a state or money which the USSR had.
because communism is impossible and a complete fantasy, the fundamental aspects of which are completely non-functional on any grand scale.
the Soviet union was certainly socialist and actively strove towards communism by employing its ideas and methods, all of which blew up in its face.
>>52818426
>people really don't even consider the existence of history before WWII or what life was actually like in the early 20th and 19th centuries
Probably because America's prewar culture/history got pretty rapidly submerged in the 50s. People wanted everything new, new, new and there was little nostalgia for the past except among some old people.
>>52818426
>and vapid consumerism, except this time on a far wider scale
Oh nononono. LOL. Bohemian intellectuals in the 50s like Henry Miller were decrying the rampant consumerism of that era. New cars, new refrigerators, new vacuum cleaners. Lucky Strikes, General Electric, General Motors. Buy it now now now now.
>>52818792
the past was seen as an irredeemable failure
in America it had created nationwide torment through the depression, ecological disaster, social conflict, and in Europe much the same plus the largest period of war in history.
all in all the idea of progress and the people not to be trusted was a powerful one.
even today the idea that people should have no real power in democracy, but merely guide it subconsciously as passive-consumers is overall the dominant idea.
I'd say it worked a bit better in the 50s because these old humanitarian ideas were much stronger as was the influence of a wider range of philosophy among the patrician classes.
in the UK for example the BBC basiclaly saw their goal as to "uplift" the commoners, by baiting them in with some low brow programming, and keeping them there for the 'real' stuff, namely their serious thought provoking programs.
>>52818426
>aside from being more sexually open, the 60s merely brought back the strong individualism of the past
The Sexual Revolution properly speaking started in the Roaring 20s, but the Depression snuffed it out for a few decades. Essentially, a lot of the stuff that happened in the 50s-60s like the birth of a distinct youth culture and sexual liberation had begun during the Coolidge years. However it had to be put on hiatus until economic prosperity returned after the war.
>>52818878
it was a different sort of consumption though, it was targeted as "you need this, this will make your life easier and better", everything was painted as a necessity.
post-cultural revolution things were more targeted towards one's individualistic view of one's self, namely "what this product says about me" or " how this product will make you stand out/let others know what kind of individual you are"
Agreed desu
It should also be noted that I believe gaddafi, assad, and hussein all did nothing wrong.
The conformity of the 50s was made possibly by a generation of Americans shaped by the New Deal and military service; my grandparents believed everything had to be run like the Army and that Uncle Sam and General Motors, who'd saved humanity in the war, held the answers to all of the world's ills. So the WWII generation were very statist kinds of guys and they tended to (unfortunately) believe anything the media/doctors/corporations/the government told them without question.
Whatever criticisms you can make of baby boomers, they brought things back to the more traditional American way of believing the government is putting fluoride in your tap water.
Neither did the our empire in WW1.
>>52819105
Well, yeah. That came about because of the collectivist culture of the 50s. When all men wore matching gray suits, bought a new Buick every two years, and everyone lived in neat little mass-produced Levittown houses.
>>52819436
bit like the Chinese are today, except minus the moral center
>>52818715
communism is human nature and has existed since humans were created.You believing that communism is a fantasy is the result of hundereds of years of capitalist propaganda.The system can manipulate human nature.
Actually though, I'd say Millenials have gone a step further in terms of creating an individualist culture where you can dress however you want and consume whatever media you want. The boomers still grew up in an age when everyone dressed the same and listened to the same musical artists. Result being that we no longer have an overarching pop culture as we did in the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s where every decade had a distinct look and feel to it.
>>52819526
China is just a Third World country that the CCP tries to superficially dress up by building shiny glass skyscrapers in Shanghai's business district. The people though are still nigger-level which is why they piss in the streets, spit on tables, and eat with their bare hands in five-star restaurants.
>>52819528
>communism is human nature and has existed since humans were created
this is the myth right here
this isn't the 19th century anymore (though that might not be true for Greece) and we now know a lot more about pre-history than ever in the past, among which that some ancient "communism" is an outright lie pushed by people who either don;t know what communism is, or stretch the truth/definitions extensively.
>>52795188
Just like i said yesterday here, the US supported the most evil guys during the cold war until today
>>52819562
millennials grew up in a culture where the Government was run like a business, with votes as capital and voters as consumers, with the main idea that you ask the state to provide you goods and services in exchange for tax.
it soulds more democratic but in reality the actual power of the common man has been limited extensively and his subconscious desires now play a greater role than he does, that combined with politics becoming more and more focused on petty issues and constant shifting of opinion.
>>52819949
>millennials grew up in a culture where the Government was run like a business, with votes as capital and voters as consumers
It was always like that though, some eras (esp. the Gilded Age in the late 19th century) worse than others.
>>52819822
Almost all of us will act like communists in our daily lives simply because it is the normal and acceptable thing to do,we have a need to form into little groups of friends which support one another and it is not as if we are forced to do this things,we do them because they are natural and enjoyable.Without this kind of interaction it is likely that people will feel pretty lonely and if you charge your friends every time they ask you to help them out then you can be sure that you wont be friends with them for much longer.
There are numerous scientific studies demonstrating that cooperation is an integral part of human behaviour.If competition is so natural why is there a need to have an education system desinged to forcefully nail any so called ''competitive values'' into the heads of young children with a natural sense of fairness and justice and teach them to hate eachother?
Such irrational practises are often justified on the grounds that ''people will do to you bad things lately in life so we have to do bad things to you now'' this is not natural,this is institutionalized sadism.There is no biological justification that the means of production have to be privately owned,for workers to be controlled by bosses or for good and services to be allocated in a market fashion.
Sorry for my rambling :)
>>52809676
And later those kikes got purged
>>52820473
do you sincerely equate any social grouping at all with Communism?
>>52819822
and yes our society in Greece is stuck in the 1960s when we had a fascist military junta
>>52820533
yes, i like to call it ''communism on a social level''
>>52819726
t. american foreign office
>>52820637
then you really are a braindead.
>>52820537
Fascism is just another form of socialism though.
>>52821223
Uwot
>>52821869
Remember - National Socialist German Worker's Party :^)
The main difference is that fascism is nationalistic while communism is internationalistic.
>>52822591
Well, if i remember Hitler got help from the corporations
>>52822725
Sure and Henry Ford helped build a car plant in the Soviet Union as well. Companies will sell their products to anyone who's willing to pay. There's nothing weird about that.
If you understand a little about Nazi ideology, they saw the Jew as a symbol of capitalism and modernity that were corrupting the German people.
Of course a lot of Jews since the 19th century also became raging leftist commies out of a perverse desire to escape the stereotype of the Jewish money-changer.
>>52798398
Why aren't u in best korea, faggot
>>52822809
That was based tbqh
>>52820862
Its true chinese people are disqusting. The Japanese did nothing wrong when killing them, merilis maruaders suffered more casualilties from diseases caught from the chinese then fighting the japs.
>>52822990
Alot of them became left wing because they were being murdered by the tzar of russia.
>>52801241
It was the soviets who killed there president not us. Many muhajdeen were moderates like ahmad shah mossad.
>>52823796
And later they got murdered by stalin, haha those poor jews are miserable
>>52823925
Those guys remind me FSA in syria
>>52820862
t. Chairman Chang
>>52823925
And the guys like Massoud got no help from you
The US weapons via Pakistan went to Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, a Wahabbi
>>52823731
Japan was also nigger-tier when Matthew Perry's fleet came there in the 1850s (read some accounts by them), but their ruling class quickly realized they'd fall victim to European colonialism if they continued to live that way.
>>52824441
Yes Western governments probably shouldn't have supported Zia, but it's a moot point anyway since you're the Canuck Iranian diaspora troll.
>>52824473
Not that it happened overnight; only during the postwar US occupation did we finish de-niggerizing Japan.
>>52824582
>Canuck Iranian diaspora troll.
>>52824651
Thankfully the archive preserved all of your shitposts, Farouz.
https://desustorage.org/int/thread/52733027/#q52733027
https://desustorage.org/int/thread/52689701/#q52689863
https://desustorage.org/int/thread/52403304/#52406690
https://desustorage.org/int/thread/51750002/#q51750002
https://desustorage.org/int/thread/51538820/#q51539972
>>52824983
>This absolute autism
>He actually believes that is somehow all me
Poor Xerxes. He's such a chest-thumping patriot that he chooses to live in Canada on welfare instead of in his home country.
>>52825380
>Randomly accuses me of being pro-Iran
Why? What did I say that triggered you and pinned me as your Persian counterpart?
That is some serious autism if you bookmarked those posts
I don't believe that the Soviets were victim to a bunch of guys in sandals and dresses supplied by the CIA and the ISI. The stinger missiles for instance never shot down as much aircraft as soviets could have engine failures or crash them.
The PDPA had radical fumbled reforms that the Soviets themselves told them to scale back on. And the Soviets being scared in general of some kind of Islamic uprising.
General military incompetence in the Russian military showed them screwing up and repeating it, never adapting to the mountain guerrilla warfare. Adopting mass concentrations of armor more suited to the plains of Europe. It was no surprise they were driven out.
The stupidest thing by far was to drop funding for a government that fought the Muj. to a stand still for three years.
I am sure the American military are having whatever backlash their gov contributed to the muj. but they look like military geniuses in comparison to the Russians.
Also...if you are busy blaming the US and Pakistan for supporting the Muj. groups you might want to add Iran to the list for their support of the Hazara factions.
>>52826353
>The stupidest thing by far was to drop funding for a government that fought the Muj. to a stand still for three years.
You know what is the hilarious thing?
That Najibullah government, with literally no foreign help, had better security on Kabul than the current government.
>>52826553
>Najibullah
He got castrated, good security amaright.
>>52826691
That was 1996 idiot, he stepped down in 92 so the Mujahideen would stop fighting and further destroying the country since they wouldn't settle for a former Commie as president.
The Taliban stormed the UN compound and fucked his shit up.
>>52826751
I wasn't being condescending I was making a joke.
Right now I would place my bets on the current government lasting longer than the former ones. The mistakes in Iraq which have had interestingly little effect on Afghanistan might make the american leadership think twice about not properly supporting the Afghanistan government.
>>52795253
Chances are his granfather properly killed 10 Russians in Skiing ambush attacks,
Soivet army was shit tier in WW2 Muh 0.1 KD ration.
>>52826930
The 89-92 government wasn't corrupt at least. Najib wanted to broker peace and stop the fighting rather than trying to build himself houses in foreign countries.
The government now is corrupt from head to toe. All the different politicians care only about money and power.
Add in the fact that the Taliban movement is still operating and growing in the Pakistani Federally Administrated Tribal Areas with the supposed help of the Pakistani ISI and there isn't much the Afghan government can really do.
>>52827069
>soviet army was shit in ww2
Wow free b8
>>52827126
In 39 it really was tho
>>52827126
Find me an example when the Russians won a b battle where they didn't outnumber their opponents and I'll take it back.
>>52827309
They stopped nazi zerg rushing invasion
>>52827309
Operation Spring Awakening
>>52827094
Of course his government was corrupt.
https://books.google.no/books?id=guQQKejG3qUC&pg=PA275&hl=no#v=onepage&q&f=false.
All of the PDPA officials were marked by incompetence and mismanagement.
>>52827467
Kursk and stalingrad
>>52827527
What did you want me to read? It takes me to a blank page with some russian written on it then goes into the Geneva conference,
>>52795188
Saving thread
>>52825191
His delusion never ends.
saving thread again
>>52795188
Daily reminder
>>52834574
at least those poor people have democracy now
>mexico killed trotsky
baka family
>>52822994
>criticize Stalin
>"muh meme korea"
American education, everyone
>>52822591
>national-"""socialism"""
>>52835977
Mexico was one of the only countries to grant him political assylum actually, even though he had criticized Cardenas (I think, the guy who nationalized oil in mexico) for not being a leftist.
I honestly think that Socialism or Communism could be done correctly, just not in shitty undemocratic countries where people are backwards idiots like Russia or China.
Real Socialism would have to be heavily computer based to manage production (based probably on models that simulate value based on consumption inputs and organic inputs from a "kickstarter" like system on new products)
It would also have to see a radical shift in culture, basically our generations could never have real Socialism, it would have to be implemented over stages so you get a new generation that has never experienced Capitalism.
You would also have to find a way to have governance, but not have it turn into a bureaucratic Nomenklatua nightmare like Stalinist/Leninist countries, I think this would be done through some form of trade union democracy syndicalism.
Through all of these systems you could probably get Socialism to work in my opinion, but it would be a vast undertaking and rebuilding how society works.
Honestly I think looking at Post-Capitalism is a good thing, Capitalism in the 21st century is going in a very dark direction in my opinion with almost all the social gains of the 20th century ripped away one by one as people become hyper consumerist, individualist and dog eat dog. I've only been in the workforce for 15 years, but even in that short time I've seen things shift more and more to the right against the working people and sadly working people becoming more and more apathetic and vindictive against each other.
>>52816811
>>52840543
You live in a Socialist utopia. You forfeit the right to criticise it.
>>52841505
>socialist utopia
Sweden is strong thanks to our many innovative and competitive corporations. Sure we pay high as fuck taxes but the money has been well used and ease of doing business here is great.
Not that it matters now when it's all going to shit.
>>52795188
The Finn is right.
>>52841505
he lives in a cuckalist utopia not socialist
>>52795188
boss country, too bad russian people back then fall for the western fake shine story, but hopefully they got smarter by the time
