Are you for or against a United Europe super state?
I'm for
but at least half of Europe is probably against
Against, about 50% of Europe is shit and I don't want to be associated with them.
>>52772207
Against
First Nazis, then Commies, now EUnionists occupy us
But likewise they will dismantle
We fought hard for our independence, even if modern people are cucked due to well being
I'm against it.
I don't feel any conection towards bulgaria etc. and I think our mentality is too different, as the south is pretty conservative, the slavs hate commies while germany for example is full of wannabe commies.
For, it's the only way Europe can stay relevant.
Against.
The EU is just soviet union 2.0 under a thin "democratic" veil.
Also people from different countries have different history, different cultures, and different needs.
For, nation states were useful for progress, but now they're obsolete
germany
>>52772207
for but the Union in the shape it is now is not the way we should go
>>52772207
I am in favour, since I believe we will have war again otherwise.
We need just correct formalisation like the US has with a less shitty voting system.
If we are correctly federalised the smaller countries also can outvote us and don't have to listen to us because of MONEY.
It would be way more secure in that regard.
>>52772207
I'm for
It's a nice idea but I can't see it ever working
>>52772207
For, i support the idea of a strong european community
>>52773278
American here, the apparent flaws in our voting system are more by design than you might think. The electoral college more or less guarantees two major parties by its design, and although you may see this as a bad thing, it isn't necessarily.
It just comes down to what kind of system you want. Despite the intermittent periods of extreme polarization like we have now I think most Americans recognize that we have the oldest large-scale republic in the world and most of the systems we established at the beginning work. But certainly what works there need not work for Europe: you have different priorities after all.
>>52772207
For, i support the idea of a strong european community
>>52773477
>>52773806
>>52773801
Against by the way, for the sole purpose that I like seeing Britain stand proud and independent
I'm for in principle
We just need way more agreements about what happens when things fail or when people don't follow agreements (and then actually apply sanctions or let countries become bankrupt, otherwise EU will destroy itself within a few decades).
I'm for, but my autism is thinking that what roadsigns the country is using?
No for Cuckrope "super" state
>>52772207
For, i support the idea of a strong european community
>>52772207
Everything about the EU is shit except empty promises of "identity" and "stronk"
>>52772207
Europe doesn't have a unified culture or somewhat consistent language.
Against.
We're too culturally diversed to be in the same state. Not unless one country wiped out and ethnically replaced all the others.
>>52773801
I just think a council of all head of states or something in that regard voting on the most important issues would be fair if formalised.
Most other stuff could also be done in that way by population like it is allready done but with more power.
Otherwise it is a papertiger that does more harm than good.
lel that'd be pretty stupid 2bh
>>52772207
who cares, they're already fucked anyway.
>>52772207
lol fuck no
>>52772207
I would rather be irrelevent than be in a unified EU ran by incompetent idiots
Against but making the current EU better and more unified is something that should be done.
>>52772207
So much for
>>52773886
is this an invitation?
>>52772207
United Europe - Yes
super state - Why? Sounds like a bad idea.
Super Europe is still no match for Mega America
>>52772207
No, because if it is formed with current rules, seperate states have too much power to do anythi g together. And if you are u ited eith stricter rules like the USA, you'd lose your identity.
I'm for a federation where the current states can govern internal affairs relatively independently while the central government handles foreign policy, standards, security, international trade, minimum tax, outer borders.
The current refugee crisis would be handled by the fed, determining their status and temporary residence.
How likely such a federation is? Not very.
>>52774508
>17 million trillion dollars
>>52773886
Don't worry, that's what the Muslims intend to do.
>>52773903
You want a system by which some issues are voted on by a body that gives the same amount of representation to each country, while others are voted on where each country gets votes according to population.
Welcome to the Connecticut Compromise, friend! The US Senate and House of Representatives have been doing that for over 200 years. It's a good system!
>>52772207
Against obviously
>>52772207
Let's see. Do I want to be ruled by people from Stockholm or Brussels?
Brussels. No doubt about it. Nuke Stockholm
who gives a shit lol
Against. EU is a nice idea poorly executed, we just need to fix and expand the concept where needed, a total unification is almost impossible.
>>52772207
Against. We are a small country, our voices would not be heard. We'd lost more than we'd gain.
>>52772207
For
European hegemony motherfuckerz
>>52772207
Could not be more against it. It's a failed union that only controls members in ways that make no sense. Dismantle it.
>>52772207
ahah no. we can dump syrians easier pls unite
>>52772804
For you maybe
eat shit
>>52774508
>NAFTA vs EU
>a trade agreement vs a political entity
We have trade agreements with other countries too, do we include Canada in the EU?
>>52772804
>only way
>home to 2 nuclear powers with UNSC seats
>Britain, France, Germany, and Italy are among the largest economies in the world
>the largest economic centre on the planet
How the fuck would Europe lose relevance if we keep things as they are?
>>52772207
No, I just wish that Euro nations would do something about their armed forces instead of counting on my country to protect all of the western worlds interests.
>>52772647
You are the most hated country in Europe, nobody wants to be associated with you. You shouldn't be even commenting here.
>>52775275
>instead of counting on my country to protect all of the western worlds interests.
It was your countries' idea that Europe demilitarize in the first place.
>>52772662
How many Bulgarians have you spoken with in your whole life?
>>52775353
You're that wrinkly old Italian shitposting Babushka, aren't you?
against
>>52772207
The Idea of nations is a social construct and should be done away with. I am a European not a Brit and certainly not an Englishman. I now only tell distance in kilometers like a good European.
For, with different legislation.
Or, you know, kick all the poorfags out and start a new one with the cool countries.
>>52772207
I'm for it as long as it's not through the EU.
Neo-european imperialism?
>>52775494
>The Idea of nations is a social construct
No way, really?
>>52775393
Well its a new world now. You guys are going to need it.
>>52772207
For.
I think we Europeans are too hung up in the past. But when it comes to the problems that will arrive on our doorstep in the coming years, I can't help but think that we'd be better off trying to find the solutions to those problems elsewhere. We need to think outside of the box - outside of the powers of the current union and her members - outside historical boundaries. We need to unite the western world.
>>52775622
France has frozen cuts to their military, Britain has reaffirmed its commitment to 2%, Germany increased its budget to combat terrorism, Italy and Spain are building new ships for their navy and Italy is acquiring a fuckton of F-35s.
This "Europe spends nothing" is a myth, Europe spends what it needs to. As threats mount, Europe spends more. As tensions ease, Europe spends less.
>>52772207
>Are you for or against a United Europe super state?
Only for it if they revolt against the US and their jewish leadership, and make sure that Anglos aren't welcomed. It would also have to be a confederation as well, since many smaller states would not be recognized in any other system.
Also, retaking Constantinople must be a goal of this superstate.
For, but only if it's done in the same way as the United States. A constitutional republic, small federal states, maximum power given to the states. That way, if one states decided to go off their budget - Greece, the other states or the federal government DOES NOT intervene and bail them out using the other tax payers money. United States of Europe would never work with socialism.
>>52774612
Hey that's almost enough to pay off your debt :^)
>>52775769
This, right now EU is just Usrael puppet.
I'd much rather have it under Russia, from Lisbon to Vladivostok.
And not as a "superstate", but voluntary federation like Eurasian Union.
>>52775439
No, im that handsome guy that steals everybody's girlfriends.
>>52775844
>This, right now EU is just Usrael puppet.
You know the EU just stated Israel has to label everything that comes from the Palestinian Territories so that the BDS will be more effective in targeting Israeli trade, right?
Personally, I don't give a crap as long as the freedoms I care about are at least somewhat guaranteed. I don't see united EU shiting on them more than Czech Republic.
Considering the power we already granted to Brussels and how much intellectual capital was sunk into it, I am fairly sure stoping or reversing the process of europan integration would result in worse disaster than if we let it continue.
>>52775851
my nigga
Very much against. European politics is dominated by left-leaning idiots. I want them to have as little influence over my life as possible and frankly the idiots at home are quite enough.
I think people are making a mistake in comparing a European super state to the USA. The differences among cultures, ethics and values are WAY more pronounces in Europe than it ever was in the US. The US was essentially an empty land when the colonists first arrived, whereas in Europe a lot of countries have centuries of history and some countries have even existed for over a thousand years. Moshing them into one super state simply isn't feasible without major difficulties (such as civil war etc).
Furthermore, I don't believe that a European super state would be beneficial to freedom, privacy and trade. This is a corollary of most European politicians being leftist.
Honestly, I'd rather Sweden left the EU. The only union I'm even slightly interested in would be a Nordic union (Sweden, Denmark, Norway and Finland).
>>52775933
Labeling means nothing when israel still receives billions of dollars and has EU/US-assured protection.
>>52772207
1. Get rid of the Euro, replace it.
2. Get rid of the corrupt system in Brussels
3. Get rid of corporate, bankers and foreign influence on European politics
4. Enact common sense laws curtailing the power of the buerocratic government on civilian life.
5. Enact strong immigration reform and encourage job creation.
6. Limit entitlements to the utmost neccesity
Then the EU looks semi reasonable
>>52775933
Good, now I can tailor my shopping for maximum Israel support.
>>52772207
>mfw US an German pass
>mfw in case this shit actually happens I can just fuck off
>>52776225
All is easy and simple in americaland.
>>52774636
Well it is arguably the fault of US foreign policy for purposely destabilizing states with muslim populations and deliberately causing civilian casualties, which all creates a perfect recipe for the growth of Wahhabism (this isn't even mentioning the US funding and arming known Wahhabi groups and even assuring the protecting of Saudi Arabia).
>>52772804
It's a way for shithole countries like yours to stay relevant.
The UK/Germany and France have no problem staying relevant. Italy and Spain will stay relevant regionally and rich northern countries will have specified needs.
>>52776225
>6. Limit entitlements to the utmost neccesity
Do that in France or Spain, and they'll turn fascist overnight.
>>52776118
>European politics is dominated by left-leaning idiots
What if the leftists were forcibly ousted?
>>52776396
Even then I do not know. The cultural differences between, say, Sweden and Italy are fairly large.
>>52776390
How relevant do you think you are? Germany, France and everybody else seems to want a united Europe, the deluded England is the only country that doesn't want it. Fuck off, irrelevant little monkey island.
>>52776628
>Germany, France and everybody else seems to want a united Europe
lmao
>>52776628
Probably the 4th or 5th most relevant country in the world depending on what we are talking about.
Germany and France are both within the top 8 or so with us aswell. In twenty years time all 3 of us will still be in the top 10 as well.
>>52772207
>willfully giving up your independence
>>52776814
It's only wrong when you don't get citizenship of the resulting country.
>>52776804
>Probably the 4th or 5th most relevant country in the world
On what imaginary criteria did you come to that conclusion? You live in your delusional bubble.
>>52776804
Being fourth means shit when there's enormous power gap between second and third.
>>52776814
>believes in independence
Perfect independence is impossible. Everybody is subjected to something or to someone.
The only way to make yourself more free is to create a new free spaces and increase the freedom of others. Those with more demographic/industrial power subject itself to common rules.
The only way how your state can be relatively free is to have same "play ground".
The idea of absolute sovereignty of nation states is utopia. And worse it hurts freedom of citizens. Because there is a myth that sovereign state means more freedom for its citizens - it does not.
Citizens are more free and independent when their state is subjected to a transparent trans-national order.
Against
Faggots from the west would immediately start forcing us to use sharia and tolerance laws.
>>52777323
Ok, but that's irrelevant to giving up your independence to Brussels.
>>52777323
>Citizens are more free and independent when their state is subjected to a transparent trans-national order.
>>52777036
Strength of military (Nuclear, high-tech)
Military projection (Blue water)
Economic Size (5th)
Economic Growth Prospects (Good) (#1 in Europe soon pls)
Economic Relevance (London is top #2 city in world)
Soft Power (Top 3)
Security Seat / G8(7)
>>52777037
Not really it helps when dealing with anyone weaker and with others who are relatively strong.
>>52772207
Only if America still runs the show and control you.
>>52777323
>Because there is a myth that sovereign state means more freedom for its citizens - it does not.
Corroborate your statement. People are freer today than they've ever been in the past. Are you not just moving the problem one step away? Why wouldn't a super state have the same pitfalls as a sovereign country?
Good intentions is no guarantee of things not changing. The best solutions are those that do not require a constant maintaining of a certain mindset in order to keep things running, i.e. those where the preferred state is also the path of least resistance.
For, so we can rule it finally
![[bombs internally].png](https://i.imgur.com/ZIdkj5h.jpg "[bombs internally].png")
Napoleon would have gave us this if it wasn't for the perfidious Anglokike once again
Any other way would not work. We had our chance and it was blown.
POLAND HAS NOT PERISHED YET
FUCKING EUNIONISTS AND SHILLS, POLAND FOR POLES NOT SALAFISTS
>>52778025
>Why wouldn't a super state have the same pitfalls as a sovereign country?
And as mentioned, you wind up with people far away who don't have to deal with an issue deciding what's best for people who do.
You move your power base further away from the people and become less democratic and increasingly plutocratic like it is over here or worse.
against. This EU has only caused us problem: first the romanians, now the fucking muslims
>>52772207
For.
No matter how ridiculously overcomplicated it really is, it's better than being left on our own.
>>52779028
I guess so, since you're leeching from the start
>>52777785
Canada let's merge and become the unstoppable king of earth we were always meant to be.
>>52779028
we needs money fo dem programs
>>52779214
If Canada joined the US nothing would change much in regards to US power part from now you'd have a really ugly map.
>>52779194
>>52779278
I need a third garage
gib
>>52779304
We would have access to all of canadas mineral, lumber, and oil resources. And all that land is incredibly useful, land is the most valuable thing you can own. All dat coastline. The potential economic and military benefits for Canada are also enormous.
>>52772662
The same. Could accept an union with Italy, Portugal, and maybe France, but culturally I have the same to do with a german or a swedish than with a canadian or an australian.
>>52779516
>canadian or an australian.
You are right
There should be no borders or nations
>>52772207
>a continets that in 3000 years of history has had 250 years of peace
>now they want us to love eachother and smile
I would be infavour of a european super state but its impossible we are just way to different from eachother for that to ever happen
>>52772207
Here is your (you).
Well I am slightly for it, but only if people are seriously focusing for "European unity" and not "Unity with every African from the hood". And also, kick out Britain and Ireland.
Im pro federal europe because in the future the european countries alone will be less and less irrelevant each year.
>>52775608
The good old days
>>52779623
Wtf? All these countries that i have told have one common thing (occidental culture). What have any of them in common with Nepal, Nigeria or Argelia?
>>52779516
I would consider regional unions
Central Europe (Germany,France,Netherlands;Czech Republic...)
Northern Europe
(Denmark,Sweden,Finland etc.)
Southern Europe
(Italy,Greece,Spain...)
Eastern Europe
(Balkan and rest...)
Whether Europe unifies or stays a continent of Nation-States, non whites must be kicked out as well as ALL American military personnel and influence in general and treating Israel as no different than any other country. Also Russia is Europe and must feel included but make it clear that the Soviets were evil cunts.
Unfortunately I don't see a movement to achieve these things happening without a massive continent wide war.
>>52775608
What is that thing North of Mongolia, Tuva?
>>52779765
>Southern Europe
>(Italy,Greece,Spain...)
union of denbts
>>52779660
Ever since we joined the EU we've reached the true peace, Alberto.
>>52779676
Why the fuck kick out Ireland? You might as well kick out Malta, Greek Cyprus and Iceland as well.
>>52779801
>kick out US troops
At this point I think the US troops stationed in Germany are better equipped and trained than the German army.
>>52779837
>Tuva
Yes, it was still independent back then if I remember correctly.
For, then america can finally get the fuck out of europe
>>52772207
Give me one reasonable argument for a pan-European state that doesn't rely on "muh power". In other words, give me an argument for why a unification makes sense, in the same way the Italian and German unifications made sense (although the latter destroyed Europe).
completely against and i am willing to go to war against eurocrats who try to take away ireland's independence
>>52779850
PIIGSistan
>>52779850
But cultural accurate
>A senate were everybody use his hands and screams while arguing
>>52779837
Tannu Tuva
It was annexed by Soviet Union somewhere by end of WWII and is still a part of Russia.
>>52779871
Island countries have different attitudes towards the continent in general. Ireland is not showing that so much as the British, but well.
Iceland is not a member of the EU at the first place. Cyprus should not be a independent country in the first place, it should join Greece.
And Malta... idk about them 2bh. Do they feel more European (more Italian, more British) or more Arabian (muh-Language)?
>>52773278
Why do people assume that keeping your independence means you must go to war with each other? This has always been the weakest argument for increased European integration, it's nothing but fearmongering.
>>52779869
What is 50 years of peace in the history of europe
Plus we are still not as united as the EU set out to unite europe(if that makes sence)
At the very least there needs to be a pan European military alliance, INCLUDING RUSSIA that can the zionist yank scum to fuck off and keep China out of European interests.
no way i want a subhuman slav or medinigger having any say over what i can or cannot do
it is looking like we will finally be free in 2016 luckily
>>52780041
>cultural accurate
maybe 3000 years ago, what do we have in common with Greece apart from olive oil
>>52779879
Lol what??
Google somethings before shitposting
>>52779903
>>52780047
OK thanks, as I thought
>Mongolia will never restore its natural borders
;_;
>>52774508
Imagine how great we could be if Mexico wasn't so useless.
>>52780198
what do you look like?
In favour, but not in it's current form. The current EU is an abomination.
>>52780128
All white countries should be unified, or at the very least supportive of one another. I mean are you suggesting Ireland and the UK fuck off to North American trash?
>>52780213
>what do we have in common with Greece
You say you have more common with Sweden than with Greece ?
The islands and Southern parts are pretty close to other Southern Europeans, the Northern parts are more Balkanic tho
It's good for trade, travel and general business but it has too much "Greater Good as according to us: Love, Brussels" bullshit for me. It reduces the autonomy and rule of smaller countries like myself and makes them vassals/serfs in all but name.
Holding North America or Europe has the same reinforcement bonus.
>>52780264
c4c bb? ;)
>>52780274
With the leftist and centre left scum running it now, it is an abomination for sure.
>>52776331
America dropping bombs in Iraq and Afghanistan has nothing to do with whether or not Europe decides to take in millions of refugees. The fault for their current situation is theirs alone, they could easily police their borders and send the gibsmedats back, but they don't.
>>52780305
>You say you have more common with Sweden than with Greece ?
we're much closer to France than Greece, culturally
no euro union merkel is a jewish nazi and she wants to breed my family with immigrants
For, but only if the Netherlands and Flanders seccede.
>>52780230
Germany's "air force" is practically falling apart on the runway Alberto
>>52780405
Yes, because France is pretty Mediterranean, too (Southern parts)
Also, by this logic Iberia isn't very close too (beside of being Catholic)
>>52780282
>All white countries should be unified
If that would be so easy and people are actually agreeing with this, then we would not have this thread in the first place.
The truth is that being "White" is not in the first interest of the people. It is "We are both white, but I am better then you, so suck my dick".
>or at the very least supportive of one another
Agree
>I mean are you suggesting Ireland and the UK fuck off to North American trash?
Nah, they can stay independent. Its not like that every relations with them will cut off.
>>52780494
Yes but the german army is more then trained and well equiped
>>52772207
For
We need to stand united against China, India and America.
Together we are strong.
>>52780658
t. Pierre Aziz
>>52780516
Italy, Spain, France, Germany, they all share a common recent history, and through conquests, empires, literature and stuff they influenced each other culturally. Greece started being aliens to all of us since the Byzantine Empire, and they got farther with the Ottomans, they're closer to the other Balkans now
>>52777667
Your military strength is nothing compared to big powers like Russia, USA, India and China. I don't know what you mean by military projection, you are hardly taken seriously when it comes to other much larger and stronger countries. Your economic size is also pretty irrelevant, and 5th is not even big, furthermore, in the next 10 years, countries like Brazil, India and maybe even Indonesia will surpass you, you`ll be lucky if you're still in the top 10 by the end of the next decade. Economic growth prospect statistics are worthless, they are measured by the current situation, which almost never stays the same. If you wanna measure it that way then within the next 30 years, China's economy is estimated to surpass the US and Europe combined together, do you really think a small island can be relevant enough to even talk to a mega giant like China? Even Europe is going to be weak compared to China, much less a small island like yours. Same goes for India, India will crush you like a little cockroach within the next couple of decades. Try projecting power against them, see how it goes. Sure London is international city.. now. Just wait within the next decade or two, top 10 cities will all Chinese and few Americans.
>>52780658
But we're your friends.
>>52772207
Is anybody even in favor of that terrible idea anymore?
>>52780618
German army is at best trained to parade around and they had to pool equipment from entire country to get enough for a mission. Its that bad and they even admit it.
>>52776225
It's all true. And we need to kicked out of our land all your shitty think tank. Then europe can be something again.
>>52780697
>Aziz
>>52773278
The EU didn't prevent war or genocide from occurring on the European continent within the recent past.
against.
I wouldn't want such a state if I was from a rich EU country as I'd have to carry the 70% who are useless and poor on my back
but since im one of those useless and poor then yes.
>>52779946
That would be PIGS now, la.
>>52780907
Fuck you Italy
>>52772207
Bros, your superstate make you lose your bollocks. Until you learn to keep them and not turn into pussy ass bitches. don't do that shit
>>52780722
>they all share a common recent history
The Greeks managed to free themselves in 1821 or not ? I mean it's not like they didn't participate in European history for the last 200 years
And tbqh, I Don't fell much connection with your country or Spain, I mean you are very nice people but have different attitudes toward life in the South
>>52780790
Oh G-d
http://i.imgur.com/lV62sWq.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/p9uhPAj.jpg
tl;dr - European Union - Destruction of European diversity, one mud-race people ruled by white jewish elite
This dude was a half-jap "aristocrat" and apparently related to Otto von Habsberger, whose dynasty applauds "european integration"
Disregard the link there, he really wrote all of that shit
>>52780867
>70%
Everything EU east of Berlin put together has population less than 120 million out of 505.
>>52780729
Your comment needs more visibility.
We need to mutualize our resources and power because no matter how "mighty" our respective cultures are, we amount for very little of the world population and the southern hemisphere influence will only keep growing.
Once they are fully industrialized, these countries attention will be on projecting their influence abroad and protect their interests in international affairs.
This means: challenging our dominance and threatening our economies, instead of having european companies leading the world's industries, we will only be market to conquer.
That is unless we mutualize and decide to be united, to be strong and make our voice heard.
A United Europe has the potential to make us a superpower, a force to reckon with.
>>52781183
spain and portugal are also one of those useless states
>>52780996
>The Greeks managed to free themselves in 1821 or not ? I mean it's not like they didn't participate in European history for the last 200 years
and that's not enough, also they didn't participate that much
>And tbqh, I Don't fell much connection with your country or Spain, I mean you are very nice people but have different attitudes toward life in the South
When we're talking about the little people, we have not much in common. But if you consider the artistic, intellectual philosophical movements, and the history too (the Holy Roman Empire, for instance) you'll see how there's a continuum from which Greece is too far
Any sensible person would be against
Yes there is a handful of things we do better together. Such as fighting international crime gangs and working together to protect the environment. But that's it.
Huge states that lack cohesion are never a good idea. Huge states in general are bad really. Decentralization is good.
>>52781417
>Decentralization is good
Except when you are engaged in a struggle involving heavily centralized entities
In 40 years, if Europe has not a strong federal state we will not amount for anything in international matters.
We will be subjugated by foreign powers, just another consumer market to conquer.
Or we could lead. And show the world that Europe is still a force to be reckoned with.
>>52781537
You're delusional as fuck.
>>52780996
>>52781322
Take the classical music for instance, the notation we use is full of Italian names, and Germany gave birth to some of the greatest composers of the European culture. We all influenced each other, but how does Greece fit in? While all that was happening, they were under the Ottoman rule.
>>52781537
It's not worth it. Giving up so much power to people in Brussels won't end well for Europe. People won't be happy
People are already unhappy with how much influence the EU has. Imagine that unhappiness multiplied.
>>52781322
I think you overestimate the medieval or classic influence a little bit too much in year 2015 my friend
The last 50 years we anyway had so much American influence in both, cultural and political way, that the called connections leveled off equal in Europe
Also, memes aside, are you from Northern Italy ? I mean I'm no newfag,pls don't consider my question rude lad
>>52781537
>We will be subjugated by foreign powers
>In 40 years
>implying it isnt already habbenin
>>52772207
i believe countries should work together for space travel and science in general but the eu is a forced construct and promotes cultural death
>>52781601
Yes this is true, there are quite some connections like classical music or political movements that managed to reach primary Central Europe
only relatively poor Eastern Euro and the smaller nations in Europe are pro-federal EU because they can mask their irrelevancy/shitty situation behind the EU flag which they would share with Germany, UK, Finland etc
those from the richer countries who support it do out of business interests and purely for control i.e. cheap resources and slave labour in the poorer members masked as "investments" and "trade" and on top of that taking power from those countries which will make them even less capable to act against these
>>52781738
>>52781537
its already HAPPENED lol EU is a US puppet state politically
fuck the EU
>>52781639
I think people are just blaming the EU because they don't know shit about how it works.
And I think people believe that a federal state would be organized similarly as the EU when in fact it would be very different and take its legitimacy *directly* from the European people (direct vote)
Look at how much we have accomplished so far since the 1950s
>>52781906
hahaha
how's that Mistral sale going :^)
>>52781906
yes, what ever US decides, EU obeys
>>52781865
None of which was based on the EU. It all came from economic cooperation that existed before the EU, not a centralized government.
>>52781906
He is true you morron. What did we accomplished since the 1950's ?
Poor shit countries like poland are the only ones that benefit from the EU
>>52781654
>I think you overestimate the medieval or classic influence a little bit too much in year 2015 my friend
And modern.
>The last 50 years we anyway had so much American influence in both, cultural and political way, that the called connections leveled off equal in Europe
Yeah, that's another reason to not overestimate the linkage between everyone, like Italy and Greece
>Also, memes aside, are you from Northern Italy ? I mean I'm no newfag,pls don't consider my question rude lad
Southern. Yes, I know we were Greeks, but that was over two thousand years ago.
>>52781937
We sold it to Egypt
So it's fine
>>52781959
He is right
Goddammit the Education Nationale has failed so many of you faggots.
>>52782017
>>52780729
A military is only important in how it is used
Russia and China's militaries are in storage, occasionally alerted to harass the airspace of neighbors but not much else
The US military mostly gets stuck in some middle east quagmire, probably will quit intervention due to debt and Sanders presidency anyways
>>52781790
Not really. We can't force Europe to do anything without the possibility of permanently damaging international relations. We can only "strongly suggest" which EU nations have ignored in the past anyway.
>>52781865
It's not a good democracy when the people making decisions live hundreds or even thousands of miles away. Power needs to be close to the people.
It's doubly bad when the people making decisions don't even share language/culture with the people.
It's just no good I'm afraid. We can cooperate yes but a federalized EU is not a good idea plain and simple
>>52781956
Are you dumb? What you are saying does not make any sense.
Economic cooperation is one of the building block of the European Union, this is literally the first article of each treaties we signed until Maastricht.
And the idea is not only to have abolished trade barriers but also create a single European market, and you need political union for that (and this effort of standardization has started in the early 2000s and is finally ending nowadays).
Do you understand the difference?
For because of free transit and universal currency
I'm for, even if it takes decades or even a century.
>>52782283
universal transit*
>>52782262
Do you understand that the centralized EU government has achieved nothing? It's all come from individual countries cooperating at the national level, not the supernational level.
>>52782283
>For because of free transit and universal currency
already implemented, except that universal currency turned out so shit that a lot of countries don't want it...
>>52781993
>Yeah, that's another reason to not overestimate the linkage between everyone, like Italy and Greece
True, this ironically speaks for some kind of Pan-Europeanism if I overthink my first statement
>Southern. Yes, I know we were Greeks, but that was over two thousand years ago
Yes just asking, because I usually see the Lombardians that classify themselves as Central European
Southern Italians have in general a stronger identical relation to fellow Mediterranean countries like Greece here in Germany
(One Neapolitan always say 'Una Faccia' to the Greeks in my fitness gym)
>>52782262
>create a single European market
And sell it to america, well played.
>>52782207
You realize that India is a federation of ethnicities with their own culture, language and thousand of years of bloody and merciless fighting.
The cultural differences between the North/South are even larger than Europe's local maxima.
Yet India is a growing power with a rather strong national cohesion (although not perfect obviously).
To address your points:
+The European Parliament is elected by the European People
+The Council of Ministers is composed by national governments
+The European Commission President is the leader of the largest European party
How is that not democratic? You realize that by the same token, you can advocate for regionalism and (ad absurdum) continue to end up arguing that cities should have their own laws and constitutions
People who hate the EU are often the ones who know the least about its inner workings.
>>52782430
Ok if you want to fantasize on the evil american that's ok with me, but I would rather have good discussion with you
+You are an Entrepreneur
+No single market: your potential customers are 65 millions frenchmen
+Single market: 500 millions Europeans
Tu comprends ou pas ?
A single european market also means that we can take protectionist measures that actually hurts our economic competitors.
anyone who wants an eu superstate is disgusting desu
>>52782413
>Southern Italians have in general a stronger identical relation to fellow Mediterranean countries like Greece here in Germany
Yes, but it's because of our past. The traces of the Greek civilization remained, but that's an identity we lost in time.
>>52782439
parliament has next to no power and votes enmasse with hand waving and fuck all debate, and can't even propose or amend law. the only people that can propose amend or repeal law are unelected
>>52782819
Yeah, sadly the Ancient European heritage is just an outdated concept nowdays
>>52782840
Are you retarded? Of Course the Parliament can amend laws and reject legislation.
And the Council is composed of national ministers appointed by European countries' leaders that are DIRECTLY ELECTED by the people.
Stop this meme
>>52782360
Why do we even post here. We're not even in the EU lol.
>>52782584
I understand what you mean and i agree with you. BUT actually the united europe you fantasize does not exist. We are not even close to have protectionist measures "to hurt our economy competitors". Your European parliament is bought by lobbies and do not give a fuck about europeans. United Europe may be a good idea but we have work to do...
>>52772207
For. Gib commissars.
>>52783180
because I assume we won't get left out if EU truly decides to federalize
which'll never happen, too much bad blood, too much economic inequality, its impossible, africa will unify before Europe
>>52781537
We were under the cold war for 50 years; after that we gain power and the current situation in the balkans and ukraina is a direct result of the european influence.
>>52775769
>UE
>not "Jew"
>us
>Jew leadership
Pretty funny how obviously little the average pol fags knowledge is about anything. It's like they're to ignorant to actually learn stuff so they simplify everything to Jews vs us
Please off yourself back to pol Cletus.
>>52783183
Ok I understand, and I agree with you.
I was talking about the concept of a federalized Europe rather than the current EU strict sensu
>>52783047
Appointed by elected leaders is not really very democratic and wasn't mentioned by you because of that.
Parliament can reject, yes, but it can't repeal, amend or propose law unless the council puts forward a motion.
So not only are a country's interest drowned out by numbers and competing interests, the parliament itself is much much weaker than any typical national parliament. But that's okay because it lets you use the term democracy even if you're not actually trying to give people a say
>>52783772
>anything that is not direct democracy is tyranny
>>52783672
A basic amerifag who does not know that his country is partly ruled by kikes
>>52783772
You are a federalist who does not know he is a federalist
Come out the closets brother
>>52784042
Get back to /pol/ faggot
>>52772207
Neither, I'm not an Euro.
But I do think it's a Bad Idea® for you guys.
>>52772207
Absolutely against and I will fight against it, if necessary.
Against.
Its made by happy merchants to make them even more happy by megamerchanting. Fuck.
>>52784095
Knowing the communities who can influence foreign policy of your country is quite accurate with /int/
>>52784381
>mfw Croats fight a bloody war to separate from Yugoslavia
>in a decade they'll probably again be in a union with the same countries
top cvcks tbx
There's almost no common identity between Europeans, no common language and too many cultural differences. I really don't see how it could ever be possible. Maybe 100 years into the future.
>>52784574
>union in a decade
Probably a territory to host another war, more likely.
>Americans - hey have our used weapons,half price,special offer - ballistic missiles to reach Serbia
>Croatia *drooling*
>Serbia - wtf Croatia,ok we get more stuff from Russia
>Europe - lol Balkanfags again lets watch them go at each other and pretend care
>>52785105
Why do you hate each other so much?
>>52773336
>>52773862
KEKKOOMUS SPOTTED
I'm steeply against anything with the fucking "Progressive Western Liberal" faggots
>>52772207
I hate to break it to you,sweden,most europeans don't like eachother
if you want to watch europe burn in chaos,go ahead
>>52772207
For.
Either we will hang together or else we shall all hang separately.
>>52775166
It would take much more than some black ops shenanigans to keep things as they are, senpai, and efforts to do so regardless will prove counterproductive.
BRICS and company may be overrated today, but even as corrupt and inefficient shitholes they will still continue to gain power to detriment of countries that are relevant today.
I've quite enjoyed this thread, /int/ is really cool sometimes
I'm for a EU States just to piss off David Cameron and the bastard Tories
>>52787592
good man
Nordic Union, Denmark, Sweden, Iceland and Norway together with UK, Germany and France....screw the rest
