Recently had a kid, here's how the charges break down at an American """""""hospital""""""
Womens Care - $7202.00 (literally wtf)
Labor & Delivery - $7001.00 (she labored at home)
Laboratory Services - $604.00 (ok)
Pharmacy - $444.05 (this was ibuprofen--not even joking)
Emergency Care Servies - $433.00 (I drove her there and wheeled her up to the delivery room myself)
TOTAL cost $15684.05 for one baby
The doctor was in the delivery room for about 20 minutes tops
After insurance, still cost $500
Private health care is a fucking joke
Also, in order to spend some time with my new baby, I had to use up all my vacation days (~2 weeks), which means I only get a couple paid holidays for Christmas
>>51449376
That's because your company is dog shit.
>>51449426
No, my company is pretty typical
t. actually employed adult
>>51449324
Merkin man whinging about the private healthcare system in his cuntry...
>Both my kids births cost fuck all. 1 emergency Caesarian in theatre under general and one natural.
>>51449376
I got 6 mths paid fraternity leave, my missus got the other 6 maternity for both kids.
>$400 for saline IV
JUST
>>51449475
When my wife was recovering, the hospital sent photographers to our room to try to sell us $60 portraits of our newborn
I'm not even joking
Americans think this is normal
Well with insurance it's not to bad but my question is why doesn't no one realize the ludicrous amounts of money being charged for nothing.
I mean someone does have to pay for that (the insurance company), why don't they complain about it?
>>51449572
They do complain, but because it's a privatized clusterfuck, it's basically a bunch of different interest groups (insurance companies, doctors, hospitals, patients, politicians, etc.) jockeying for supremacy. Basically a race to the bottom where nobody wins
>>51449324
>I just had a kid, now I'm posting about healthcare costs on an anonymous anime imageboard instead of spensing time with my wife or caring for my newborn son
Right...
>>51449376
>>51449376
Deal with it, pussy. Why the fuck should a company pay every single employee thousands and thousands of dollars a year for time they don't work? Two weeks is a pretty decent amount of time off.
>>51449624
I said "recently," numbnuts
>son
check your privilege as well
Don't have kids then.
>>51449474
Sucks to be you then.
>>51449546
>Pharmacy - $444.05 (this was ibuprofen--not even joking)
This one got me - I've been in hospital and seen my pharmacy bill (not paid tho - covered by medicare) and how they can justify a charge like that makes me wonder what else they get away with..
>>51449631
But I did deal with it, obviously. You'll understand when you graduate from college and get a job, anon
>>51449675
I have a job, and have a kid too. Took 4 days out of my 3 weeks per year off and everything was fine.
>>51449664
Nah, I still live a comfortable life, I'm just pointing out how messed up our system is, which apparently is very offensive to a kuck like yourself.
Congrats on the kid!
>>51449657 is kinda right though
>>51449324
>>51449376
This is why white Americans have like 1.3 fertility rate.
They are killing you off and bringing in new labour to replace you. Rome did the same with its peasants at the end. Taxes were so high they could not feed their kids so they brought in germanic people to make up for the shortfall.
>>51449707
You had to pay a nominal amount and you're still complaining.
My insurance and paternity policy is infinitely superior to yours, so I don't really give a fuck.
>>51449699
>4 days out of my 3 weeks per year off
It's great that you don't want anything more for yourself, but there are actually people who would rather not use their saved wages (which is all PTO is) to spend time with their newborn children.
>>51449707
>I still live a comfortable life
>but this country is so awful and I am here desperately seeking approval from Europeans on a Filipino claymation forum
>>51449324
So why don't you people start a state healthcare campaign? Or you're afraid of being called a goddamn commie?
>>51449749
>My insurance and paternity policy is infinitely superior to yours, so I don't really give a fuck.
Sure thing buster
>>51449749
It still doesn't make your fucked up system good
>>51449784
Because I work at a company that isn't complete garbage. You're a complete fucking faggot if you think everyone's job and life is exactly like yours.
>>51449754
>I am here desperately seeking approval from Europeans on a Filipino claymation forum
Nah I don't give a shit what the Euros think--but you do, apparently
If it embarrasses you, maybe you should get angry about it instead of actually coming up with excuses for the people taking your money, like a good little kuck
>>51449631
It's nice to know that even as a loser, I have more worth and are valued higher than an American with a full time job.
>>51449753
I think you're just fine and you're spending your time complaining about a marginal inconvenience and apparently think that this means the government needs to step in and start mandating leave policies for private employers. What a special little snowflake you are. Do you wear a #feelthebern t-shirt on the reg?
>>51449784
> complains that policies aren't good enough
> refuses to believe anyone might be subject to better policies
Cool thread.
>>51449801
>Because I work at a company that isn't complete garbage. You're a complete fucking faggot if you think everyone's job and life is exactly like yours.
I strongly doubt you actually have a job, champ
My insurance as it is is completely fine and my company pays nearly 100% of it, I'm just pointing out how absurd it is, which is obviously really touching a nerve for you
>>51449324
nice capitalistic healthcare system you got there
>not hiring a midwife for $600 and birthing at home
Don't blame the private healthcare for your being dumb enough to feed the machine
you CVC|<
>>51449780
>So why don't you people start a state healthcare campaign
because despite it being a fucked up system the quality of care is actually good and the speed in which someone will see you even if they're an obscure specialist is great
to add to that state healthcare benefits and children in uninsured families is already where ~40% of our taxes go, i dont think it's feasible
Oh hey guys, what's going on in this thread? :^)
>>51449829
See
>>51449825
You're making yourself look like a liar.
>>51449825
Nah I just take issue with Americans on this board posting lies and bullshit about their lives in order to impress Europeans
>>51449829
You haven't made an actual point. You made an infantile and obvious observation without expanding upon it in the slightest.
>>51449836
>americans are so poor, and have such a bad healthcare system that birthing outside of the hospital to save money is actually considered
>>51449849
Which is precisely what OP is doing.
>>51449801
>>51449825
Since you are actually hard-working fully-employed anons and not high-school or college-aged NEETs with nothing better to do than lie for America's honor on a Chinese animation BBS, why don't you tell us what your health plan is? There are only so many and all of the information is publicly available on them. We'd all love to know about your kick-ass awesome health plans paid for by your totally cool and super badass employers that definitely exist
>>51449865
I hope you'll enjoy paying for the HIV treatments of gay muslim refugees via le weedman, Canakek.
>>51449888
OP here, I didn't make this thread to imrpess Europeans
these
>>51449426
>>51449631
>>51449664
>>51449699
>>51449754
>>51449825
>>51449847
>>51449863
ass-blasted kids are the ones who care, which is why they are so angry and hostile
>>51449899
>paying for HIV treatments
>>51449892
Personally, I fail to see any major issues with your situation. You had to pay $500 for your kid to be born, and got 2 full weeks off to spend with your wife and kid afterward. Sure, maybe now you have to work on December 28th and 29th. So what? Are we supposed to weep over your minor problem and upend our entire system?
Since those services don't cost that much to perform, where does all the extra money go? Who is making the fuckload of money off Americas broken system?
>>51449947
Aren't you going to answer my question?
>>51449955
Der Jew.
>>51449892
Aetna HRA and Delta Dental, costs me $50 per month. I chose no vision plan because I don't need it. No copay for office/hospital visits. Copay on some prescriptions, but I don't take any, so that doesn't even matter. $1000 deductible, $6000 out of pocket max.
Company offers 2 months of paternity leave, but you can also work from home before/after that without any penalty.
>>51449947
If millions of other people are experiencing the same "minor problem," it's no longer a minor problem, and has potentially significant consequences
>>51449955
Capitalists
>>51449947
You should fix your broken system
>>51449955
Fuckers like this
>>51449947
I'm not the guy bragging about my insurance and benefits policies. They're decent. I'm making a totally different point though. Why am I supposed to be shocked and ashamed of your OP?
>OP paid this much to have a fucking kid
>best part
>it was a girl
you literally just paid $500 to have your daughter bring home Jamal 15 years from now kekkkkkkk
>>51449892
You haven't offered any details whatsoever and yet you accuse everyone else of lying.
>>51449981
>You should fix your broken system
talking about it like it's an easy fix makes you just as stupid as people who are fully defending our current system
>>51449921
You made a bait thread and got responses. Why does that surprise and upset you?
ANYONE WHO WANTS TO KNOW HOW TO FIX HEALTHCARE READ THIS SHIT
http://www.freenation.org/a/f12l3.html
>>51449970
>HRA
That's what I thought
>$1000 deductible
That sort of negates the whole "no copay" thing, lol
Definitely a gold-standard benefits package you've got there, anon
>Company offers 2 months of paternity leave
Noted absence of "paid"
>>51450012
I'm not saying that it's an easy fix, but it definitely won't get any better with your attitude
>>51449974
Millions of other people don't even get what you got.
>>51449974
I'm not seeing a problem with OP's situation in particular. Everything seems to be fine there.
>>51449981
I can agree that the prices are insane. I'll admit that I don't have an extremely in depth understanding of healthcare, so I'm not sure what the reasons are. I don't think muh state healthcare is the answer though.
>>51449955
kikes who run the hospitals
>>51450027
>bait thread
It's only a bait thread if I can 100% expect ass-blasted Americans to actually try to argue that they like paying more for something because reasons, just because otherwise they might have to concede that they don't have the best of something
So yeah I guess it was a bait thread
>>51449631
>amerislaves
>>51449899
Americans are less white, and have higher AIDS rate than Canadians, and youre taking in more Syrians than Canada too. Oh, and HIV treatments are covered by the government healthcare program.
>>51450035
It is 100% paid you insufferable fucking nigger. And the deductible only applies to actual procedures and advanced tests.
>>51449865
It's the hot new trend
Mothers-to-be are ditching hospitals faster than men can ditch them
>>51450059
the reason for high costs is artificial lack of supply
>>51450071
So you admitted to trolling. Time to delete this thread. Or it will just get pruned. Either way.
>>51450094
>It is 100% paid
Sure it is ;)
It totally makes sense that a company that only offers an HRA instead of real insurance would also offer two months fully-paid paternity leave, because heh why not who needs profits (ツ)
>>51450121
threads never get pruned anymore. they get archived
"pruned or deleted" means janny janny got triggered
>>51450055
my attitude is realistic, there is an economic reality that makes it not possible in the near future.
also i live here and despite it being a fucked system it isn't pure black and white situation, insured americans have great healthcare, i'd go as far to say that it's the best in the world. if you don't believe me check out cancer survival rates.
it is selfish but i know for a fact that my healthcare turned socialized the 85% of people who are insured will be giving up a lot for that bottom 15%
So how do poor people keep shitting out kids? Does the govt offer them subsidies or something?
>>51449631
lol @ you
>>51450145
> thinking the HRA is the only choice
There are half a dozen other options from 3 insurers. It's like you have no fucking idea how a large corporation works. The HRA was the cheapest option given my medical history and tax status.
>being amerifat
Thats where you fucked up yo.
>tfw illegal mexi immigrant
>tfw haven't been to a hospital or seen a doctor at all since I left mexico
>>51450077
top kek. I'm a slave because I don't rely on the government to coddle me like a toddler, take my money, and hold it for me for later as an allowance.
>>51450185
Poor people have Medicaid, which is basically free medical care
>>51450185
if youre uninsured and have kids your kids get assistance to get some care
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicaid#Eligibility_and_benefits
>>51450145
Lots of tech companies do that. Not sure about other industries. Why is it that you believe your personal situation is the only one in existence?
Do we need to beat you guys in another war or should we leave it to Vietnam?
>>51450197
Not him, but what's your point, anyways? That you have good benefits? What do you expect? A gold star?
>>51450227
>Lots of tech companies do that
If by "lots" you mean about a handful
The chance of anybody in this thread working at one of those companies is approximately 0%
Today, we are constantly being told, the United States faces a health care crisis. Medical costs are too high, and health insurance is out of reach of the poor. The cause of this crisis is never made very clear, but the cure is obvious to nearly everybody: government must step in to solve the problem.
Eighty years ago, Americans were also told that their nation was facing a health care crisis. Then, however, the complaint was that medical costs were too low, and that health insurance was too accessible. But in that era, too, government stepped forward to solve the problem. And boy, did it solve it!
>>51450203
And you're denied that if you have over a certain amount of money? How does that system work?
>>51450222
What about the birth itself though?
>>51450267
In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, one of the primary sources of health care and health insurance for the working poor in Britain, Australia, and the United States was the fraternal society. Fraternal societies (called "friendly societies" in Britain and Australia) were voluntary mutual-aid associations. Their descendants survive among us today in the form of the Shriners, Elks, Masons, and similar organizations, but these no longer play the central role in American life they formerly did. As recently as 1920, over one-quarter of all adult Americans were members of fraternal societies. (The figure was still higher in Britain and Australia.) Fraternal societies were particularly popular among blacks and immigrants. (Indeed, Teddy Roosevelt's famous attack on "hyphenated Americans" was motivated in part by hostility to the immigrants' fraternal societies; he and other Progressives sought to "Americanize" immigrants by making them dependent for support on the democratic state, rather than on their own independent ethnic communities.)
The principle behind the fraternal societies was simple. A group of working-class people would form an association (or join a local branch, or "lodge," of an existing association) and pay monthly fees into the association's treasury; individual members would then be able to draw on the pooled resources in time of need. The fraternal societies thus operated as a form of self-help insurance company.
>>51449631
>t. Shekelstein
>>51450290
Turn-of-the-century America offered a dizzying array of fraternal societies to choose from. Some catered to a particular ethnic or religious group; others did not. Many offered entertainment and social life to their members, or engaged in community service. Some "fraternal" societies were run entirely by and for women. The kinds of services from which members could choose often varied as well, though the most commonly offered were life insurance, disability insurance, and "lodge practice."
"Lodge practice" refers to an arrangement, reminiscent of today's HMOs, whereby a particular society or lodge would contract with a doctor to provide medical care to its members. The doctor received a regular salary on a retainer basis, rather than charging per item; members would pay a yearly fee and then call on the doctor's services as needed. If medical services were found unsatisfactory, the doctor would be penalized, and the contract might not be renewed. Lodge members reportedly enjoyed the degree of customer control this system afforded them. And the tendency to overuse the physician's services was kept in check by the fraternal society's own "self-policing"; lodge members who wanted to avoid future increases in premiums were motivated to make sure that their fellow members were not abusing the system.
>>51450278
erm i'm not in insurance but i can give you a hunch that a birth would be something that would fall under medicaid and pretty liberally too
illegals probably have midwives that just birth mexicans in their bathtub
ITT: Stupid buttmad Americans that can't admit their health care system is fucking ridiculous.
The "Fuck you, got mine" attitude that Americans have towards healthcare is disgusting and third world tier
>>51450261
Why are you lying to and about yourself? Especially after you already explicitly admitted that you created this thread as a troll thread.
>>51450278
>And you're denied that if you have over a certain amount of money? How does that system work?
Generally you can't qualify if you make a certain percentage over the poverty line. I think it's something like 125% of the poverty line. Not totally certain.
When I was a grad student, I made about 20k as a TA. I still qualified for Medicaid. So that should give you some idea.
>What about the birth itself though?
The hospital will bill Medicaid
>>51450311
Most remarkable was the low cost at which these medical services were provided. At the turn of the century, the average cost of "lodge practice" to an individual member was between one and two dollars a year. A day's wage would pay for a year's worth of medical care. By contrast, the average cost of medical service on the regular market was between one and two dollars per visit. Yet licensed physicians, particularly those who did not come from "big name" medical schools, competed vigorously for lodge contracts, perhaps because of the security they offered; and this competition continued to keep costs low.
The response of the medical establishment, both in America and in Britain, was one of outrage; the institution of lodge practice was denounced in harsh language and apocalyptic tones. Such low fees, many doctors charged, were bankrupting the medical profession. Moreover, many saw it as a blow to the dignity of the profession that trained physicians should be eagerly bidding for the chance to serve as the hirelings of lower-class tradesmen. It was particularly detestable that such uneducated and socially inferior people should be permitted to set fees for the physicians' services, or to sit in judgment on professionals to determine whether their services had been satisfactory. The government, they demanded, must do something.
It would cost at the most around fifty bucks here.
>>51450242
He asked what the plan was like you illiterate cuntswab.
>>51449324
Just more reasons why we should implement Marxism-Leninism.
>>51450318
I actually haven't lied about anything in this thread, all it took was the simple truth to send you all into a raging fury of recriminations and chest-beating
>>51450339
And so it did. In Britain, the state put an end to the "evil" of lodge practice by bringing health care under political control. Physicians' fees would now be determined by panels of trained professionals (i.e., the physicians themselves) rather than by ignorant patients. State-financed medical care edged out lodge practice; those who were being forced to pay taxes for "free" health care whether they wanted it or not had little incentive to pay extra for health care through the fraternal societies, rather than using the government care they had already paid for.
In America, it took longer for the nation's health care system to be socialized, so the medical establishment had to achieve its ends more indirectly; but the essential result was the same. Medical societies like the AMA imposed sanctions on doctors who dared to sign lodge practice contracts. This might have been less effective if such medical societies had not had access to government power; but in fact, thanks to governmental grants of privilege, they controlled the medical licensure procedure, thus ensuring that those in their disfavor would be denied the right to practice medicine.
>>51450350
fuck off pinko
>>51450317
Public healthcare already exists for poor people.
>>51450341
No, I meant your original point--that you having a good plan means something...? I'm just confused, since it seems really irrelevant.
>>51450358
Such licensure laws also offered the medical establishment a less overt way of combating lodge practice. It was during this period that the AMA made the requirements for medical licensure far more strict than they had previously been. Their reason, they claimed, was to raise the quality of medical care. But the result was that the number of physicians fell, competition dwindled, and medical fees rose; the vast pool of physicians bidding for lodge practice contracts had been abolished. As with any market good, artifical restrictions on supply created higher prices — a particular hardship for the working-class members of fraternal societies.
The final death blow to lodge practice was struck by the fraternal societies themselves. The National Fraternal Congress — attempting, like the AMA, to reap the benefits of cartelization — lobbied for laws decreeing a legal minimum on the rates fraternal societies could charge. Unfortunately for the lobbyists, the lobbying effort was successful; the unintended consequence was that the minimum rates laws made the services of fraternal societies no longer competitive. Thus the National Fraternal Congress' lobbying efforts, rather than creating a formidable mutual-aid cartel, simply destroyed the fraternal societies' market niche — and with it the opportunity for low-cost health care for the working poor.
Why do we have a crisis in health care costs today? Because government "solved" the last one.
>>51450353
You haven't provided any details about your job and insurance, but you have demanded that others do so.
Not one thing you or anyone else in this thread has said is verifiable one way or the other. Congratulations on being a complete idiot.
>>51450290
>People paying money into a fund with other members of their community, so that the community can help its own people in times of need.
Can you imagine how difficult it would be to cut into the insurance racket like that these days?
>>51450353
> I actually haven't lied about anything in this thread
Okay, so prove it. Why should anyone else have to back anything up if you yourself won't?
>>51450317
Working just fine for me. Maybe if you guys spent less time being bleeding heart keks and more time on something worthwhile you wouldn't be best known for existing next to us :^)
>>51450353
i've really only seen two/three people chimping out, and one of them is you
>>51450382
>You haven't provided any details about your job and insurance
Actually, I provided an itemized list of my hospital bill and the associated costs, as well as my leave plan. Can you read? It was the very first post.
>Not one thing you or anyone else in this thread has said is verifiable one way or the other. Congratulations on being a complete idiot.
It's actually pretty verifiable that the US health care system is garbage.
>>51450371
Liberty Defined?
>>51450370
You should try reading the thread instead of jumping in in the middle of multiple separate conversations that you don't even have an accurate picture of.
>>51450407
>wouldn't be best known for existing next to us
Don't suck your own dick too much, people might start thinking you're gay
>>51450409
Point to one example of me chimping out, and I'll call it a night
>>51450317
That's all true, but you do have to admit it's a pretty fucking great scam. I mean if you could fuck people over and make them think that they're better people for letting you fuck them over, you'd think that you'd pulled off some pretty serious swindling, wouldn't you?
>>51450400
its because there is no real competition in medicine. people always point to the medical industry in america as an arguement against free market economics, but in fact its one of the least free parts of the market
>>51450424
copied from here, http://www.freenation.org/a/f12l3.html
>>51450429
I did read the thread, and I'm still having trouble trying to understand your contribution. You seem to really want people to know that you have a great job with excellent benefits. And so what?
daily reminder Americans pay twice as much on healthcare as the OECD average and still die earlier
>>51450418
You haven't posted proof. Anyone can google an image of an itemized hospital bill for childbirth and repost the information in a similar or identical manner.
It's pretty appalling that you don't understand what proof means.
Either provide proof or stop demanding anyone else provide any.
>>51450449
>That's all true, but you do have to admit it's a pretty fucking great scam. I mean if you could fuck people over and make them think that they're better people for letting you fuck them over, you'd think that you'd pulled off some pretty serious swindling, wouldn't you?
We feel the same way about your nanny-state, tax everything bullshit.
>>51450471
>provide proof or stop demanding anyone else provide any
And who are you, the Queen of Proofs?
>>51450462
I was directly asked about it you fucking illiterate chimp.
>>51450483
Yeah but so do we for the most part. So not exactly the same thing.
>>51450468
Bullshit statistic. Thanks for playing though, Justin.
>>51450500
And who are you, the OP who admitted this is a troll and bait thread?
>>51450449
Their whole system is fucked.
>http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/sep/23/us-pharmaceutical-firm-to-roll-back-5000-price-hike-on-drug
>mfw what this guy did simply isn't allowed in Canada or probably any other Western nation
>But since it's America money means trumps everything so it's okay
>>51450501
No, you were only asked to provide more information about it after somewhat randomly stating it as if it had any bearing on the subject at hand. I still don't get why you brought it up in the first place without any kind of prompting whatsoever. Seems a little iffy to me.
This thread is pointless.
>>51450511
I think one thing that we could agree on is that there is no perfect system. There are downsides to everything.
>>51450538
I was directly questioned about it. OP demanded details and then said details that were provided didn't count. I suspect you're just OP samefagging anyway.
>>51450545
name one downside to the fraternal system
>>51450543
Yes, it is.
>>51450574
It relies on people taking responsibility for themselves and their communities, and most people are too lazy or stupid to do so.
>>51450597
>>51450545
Yep, can't argue with that. What really amazes me is some of the alternative people are starting to consider.
>See people banging on as if their life would actually somehow be better living under a monarchy, dictatorship or some other totalitarian state
>MFW some of them aren't just doing it for the lulz
>>51450614
>>51450606
thats a big implication you got there
if people are too lazy to take care of their community for their own good, how did it work before?
>>51450617
I think the corporatism in my country and the nanny state mentality that's been creeping in in pretty much every western nation is pretty fucked, but yeah, it does also amaze me that so few people realize just how good we actually have it.
>>51450534
Well I don't know much about our legal system, so I have no idea if it's legal to do that here or not. But on the other hand, our govt censors music and album covers, it bans videogames, is only now open to the idea of even medicinal cannabis and is in the process of trying to let a bunch of Chinese miners with unrecognised or simply no qualifications get into the country to work in mines. So nothing they do would really surprise me that much at this stage.
>>51450677
I'm not entirely sure about that. I think there's plenty of people out there that fully appreciate how great it is to be born and live in a developed country. But as you're already aware, just because a country is an alright place to live doesn't mean nothing's wrong with it or that it can't still be improved in some ways.
>>51450659
Well, the culture in this country is very different than it was 80 years ago. I'm with you on finding a sane solution to healthcare issues that doesn't involve more nanny state bullshit, but we have to recognize that healthcare is a very different beast than it used to be. The type of care that people receive now goes far beyond what it did back then. I mean, if someone had cancer or TB 80 years ago the protocol was pretty much to make them as comfortable as possible and wait until they died. Hell, most people didn't even get checked into a hospital for cancer. They got cared for at home by relatives.
>>51449376
>Amerislaves!
>>51449324
it's this way even having social security?
>>51449631
>two weeks is a decent amount of time off
Land of the free
