Is abortion still a debated issue in your country?
In Australia we love abortions and have them regularly without any controversy because we're a first world country.
>>52832121
SJWs love abortions but hate eugenics. How come?
>>52832121
In the US we have people who shoot up and/or bomb clinics that perform abortions.
We don't call them terrorists because they're white.
We shouldn't have to end a human life just because some bitch was stupid. It's their dumb ass faults for not being protected in the first place. I think it should only be allowed when either:
-the woman can prove in court that she was raped (this would ideally, of course, come after a reform to the misandrist way that courts handle rape cases now) and reports this within the first two trimesters (maybe first one only, I'm on the fence)
-the couple can prove that they took the necessary steps to prevent having babies (i.e. a used condom that they can prove was used on the date of conception), since sometimes shit fails
Since when can sluts get away with murder by saying "Err, I wasn't thinking!"
>>52832247
>shoot up and or bomb
You can't just make up shit about people with opposing viewpoints, it just shows how insecure you are about your own beliefs.
>>52832903
Interesting. Is he just memeing or do you Americans really have to deal with this on the regular?
>>52832121
Yes and many politicians try to ban or restrict it, because we do not live in a first world country.
>>52832961
>he
Me?
>do you Americans really have to deal with this on the regular?
Not really. I never hear about shit happening at clinics, don't know anyone who has had an abortion, either. Only time I ever hear about it is when people are talking politics, in which it's a relatively big issue but not so much compared to immigration or the refugee crisis or the elections.
>>52832961
I've never been to short clinic so I can't say I've dealt with it.
>>52833094
*abortion clinic
>>52832121
>abortion
I been thru it with my wife that shit is murder never again.
>>52832961
it happens around new york because Christians know abortion is murder and that is a major sin.
Abortion is illegal in NSW, mate
>>52832121
>Is abortion still a debated issue in your country?
Yes, abortion is illegal here unless: woman's life/health is endangered, baby is severely deformed or pregnancy was "caused by an illegal act", but some Catholics want to ban it completely (at least formally, i.e. it would be possible, but as so called "contra-type", not as a "positive" legal institution).
>>52834248
>"contra-type"
Sorry, you call it "justification" in English.
Unfortunately.
Is it true that the more pro-abortion a woman is the more likely it is that she's had an abortion?
>>52832150
Because the point of abortion is not to better the gene pool, it's for the good of the already existing mother
>>52832903
>abortion is murder
>but murder should be OK because the woman was raped
>>52834359
It's only murder in some instances m8, just like how shooting someone can be for self defense. When I said "murder", I meant killing a baby without sufficient cause.
>>52832903
Get the fuck out of here. Both of the things you mentioned would not only completely destroy an already broken legal system, but it would also give the government a horrible amount of control over its citizens sex lives.
You are either an ignorant meme spouter or the worst kind of statist scum.
>>52834410
Killing in self defense is only legal to save your own life. Getting pregnant from rape does not usually put the mothers life in danger. And if it did, abortion would be legal for the exception made for if the mothers life is in danger, there wouldn't need to be another exception for rape. The only reason you would want an abortion after rape is because the mother doesn't want the child.
>>52834412
How so? It's not like a natural right is being taken away like freedom of speech or press, it's an artificial right bestowed by other progressive countries (not that any of that sgould affect its legality but you talk it up like women are endowed with the right to kill their children by birth).
I care more about human life than some bimbo's right to fuck a guy without taking 5 minutes to go buy a condom or some morning-after pills.
>>52834472
The point is that she didn't have a choice in whether or not she wanted to have a baby when she got raped. Why should she be punished if she didn't act irresponsible?
>>52832121
>In Australia we love abortions
you mean Melbourne does?
>>52834565
Why is it suddenly not murder just because the woman didn't chose to conceive it? You're only arguing that murder is justified. And to me, that's just an incredibly inconsistent position .
>>52834649
not that guy but I can see the argument that abortion is ok if the mom's life is in danger because one dead person is better than two. Might as well spare one if you can
>>52834599
Lelburnian here.
I think SA, QLD and NT have the most reasonable policies.
Abortion is an interesting concept legally.
If it gets to the point where it
>responds to stimuli
>grows and develops
>undergoes homeostasis and metabolizes
It's by definition alive biologically.
Legally the unborn child is implied to be alive in states where killing a pregnant woman is considered a double murder.
>hurr murder all the shitskins
>but abortion is still wrong, k
I want off this ride.
>>52832928
Colorado planned parenthood shooter had explosives in his car, he just didn't manage to detonate them.
>>52834838
Doesn't affect the validity of the abortion argument.
>>52834599
>economic factors and/or social factors
How is that not a massive loophole?
>>52832121
> Bragging about abortion
Psychopath tier. Abortion is the worst necessary evil in modern society. I wish it was more restricted here.
>>52834879
>abortion is wrong because fetuses are a human life and human life is valuable
>brown people's lives shouldn't be treated as valuable even though they are human
How is it not hypocritical?
>>52832121
>ireland
>>52834248
>Pooland
>>52833066
>PooSA
>>52834191
>Poo South Wales
>>52834150
>Poo Peeland
>civilised
>>52834838
You don't want to look too closely into all of /pol/s logic structure. They're very much blue pilled
>>52832928
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence#Attempted_murder.2C_assault.2C_and_kidnapping
Never underestimate the USAin capacity for ignorance.
>>52834565
Kek get a load of this guy.
"Natural rights" "artificial rights" my fucking sides.
>>52834958
It is.
But the fact that some abortion supporters want to kill Muslims has nothing at all to do with the morality of abortion itself.
>>52834962
>Kill unborn child.
>Civilised.
>Don't know that savage can't abortion.
>>52835026
I'm not talking about all abortion opposition, just the /pol/ types.
>>52834958
Who do pro-murder people find it impossible to have an honest argument?
YOU are the one that brought up murdering shitskins.
If someone can explain to me why a fetus that is 20 can be killed but if you accidentally wait a week too long you can't any more, that'd be great. Seems pretty fucking arbitrary if you ask me.
>>52832247
Fuck off, libcuck.
>>52835123
You're the only one that said anything about the 20 week limit. I think abortion should be legal for as long as the fetus isn't conscious.
>>52835062
Well yeah, /pol/ is retarded.
But even most people here are for it anyway. They support conservatism to look noble or patriotic or whatever, but then support gay marriage and abortion and stuff. That's hypocritical.
No, it's not debated.
>>52835123
it becomes dangerous for the mother after a certain period of time, and it's also so that people don't rely on abortion and learn to use contraception instead
>>52832121
It's still illegal in northern ireland because they're religious
>>52834962
t. swamp dweller
>>52835194
Is honest, two-sided debate even legal in Europe? Or do they accuse you of hate speech for disagreeing?
Canada has literally arrested Catholic priests just for stating the Church's 1700-year old doctrine on homosexuality.
>>52835179
Literally pro-murder. Fetus don't have the right to live?
Also, how do you determine whether the fetus is conscious or not whilst still in the womb?
>>52835196
Why does the rights of the mother supersede the rights of the child?
>so that people don't rely on abortion and learn to use contraception instead
Why can't they do that to begin with?
>>52835278
In Canada they arrested some lady that gave roses to women in abortion "clinics" and she actually spent some time in prison.
>>52834565
lmao this is so fucking retarded that I don't even know where to begin with it.
~1/3 of fertilized eggs are aborted prior before the mother knows that she is pregnant; are the millions of women whose bodies elect not to carry a baby to term murderers?
abortion that is not late-term/emergency occurs before there is any form of sentience. how is it ''''murder'''' if there isn't any form of cognition there?
do you know what happened when abortion was outlawed in Romania? The murder and overall crime rates skyrocketed...because there were suddenly scores of street children committing crime to survive.
Unless you want many, many children to die of starvation or neglect, the government would have to pay billions of dollars to support children born to mothers who can't afford to raise children. Of course, given the type of person you are, I'm sure you have some perverted way to justify allowing these children to starve to death once they're born and actually sentient human beings because muh personal responsibility or whatever.
I could go on and on, but I don't think your opinions have anything to do with morals or values; I think you're just another adult virgin loser who is bitter towards women because they find you repulsive and jealous towards people who have sex.
>>52835179
>I think abortion should be legal for as long as the fetus isn't conscious.
So if I kill you when you are unconscious it's OK?
>>52834565
>The point is that she didn't have a choice in whether or not she wanted to have a baby when she got raped. Why should she be punished if she didn't act irresponsible?
>punished
>punished
>p-u-n-i-s-h-e-d
This makes me so angry
>>52832150
Liberals love eugenics
>>52835308
They can test for things like consciousness in the womb, it typically doesn't come about until like the third trimester iirc though.
>>52835354
The difference is a fetus NEVER was concious in the first place. For me, being unconscious is only temporary, and while I was concious I have given the power to decide these things to someone in case of an emergency (ie: I got into an accident and am on life support and before that, gave my wife power to decide if they should pull the plug or not).
>>52835324
Holy fuck. You may be the most retarded person I have encountered today. Congratulations.
>~1/3 of fertilized eggs are aborted prior before the mother knows that she is pregnant; are the millions of women whose bodies elect not to carry a baby to term murderers?
Is that a serious question? Murder is a deliberate act you fuctard.
>abortion that is not late-term/emergency occurs before there is any form of sentience. how is it ''''murder'''' if there isn't any form of cognition there?
[citation needed]
>because there were suddenly scores of street children committing crime to survive.
Fuck man. Must have been rough on those month old babies if they're already resorting to crime.
Surely this isn't the result of the lack of a social security net in Romania. Nope. It's because people can't murder their kids.
How exactly are all these kids going to starve. They do have parents to care for them. Its not my fault you made a bad decision and don't want to take responsibility.
>>52835308
Sometimes shit happens, condoms rip and nobody notices, hormones get affected by other medicines/drugs etc. And she doesn't notice for 2 months or so, that's 8 weeks.
>>52835354
Yes. If it has not yet developed a consciousness of itself or its surroundings then there is nothing wrong with preventing it from acquiring one.
It's still discussed here. It's only allowed if the birth of the child puts the life of the mother in danger, but I think it should be allowed when:
-The mother's underage (less than 21 yo maybe?)
-The mother simply cannot take care of the child
-The babby's gonna be born fucked up
I don't think abortion should always be allowed though, otherwise people would just have abortinos left and right.
>>52835278
There is plenty of debate in the Netherlands. But we just dont care about stuff like abortions, prostitution, gay marriage, euthanesia and shit like that. It's just common sense.
Recently genetic research on embryos was on the agenda and that hasnt been settled entirely yet.
>>52835429
AFAIK there has never been an actual scientific study on humans. They have done it on rats and the like, but they aren't even sentient. But if you want to send me a link, I'd gladly look it over.
>>52835398
No Anon, having a child is a curse, don't you know? It's not selfish to not want children, it's you taking control and being independent!
>>52835466
OK. But you knew the risks when you decided to have sex. I don't understand why its so hard for people to take responsibility for their own actions.
>>52835456
Way to prove his point.
>>52835534
Let's do away with fire extinguishers because people should know the risks of smoking around buildings. Fuck having a back up plan!
>>52835550
These two situations aren't even analogous. You're a fucking idiot.
Fires can start accidentally. You don't have sex accidentally.
>>52835324
>1/3 of fertilized eggs are aborted prior before the mother knows that she is pregnant
...therefore abortion should be legal? No logical connection.
>abortion that is not late-term/emergency occurs before there is any form of sentience. how is it ''''murder'''' if there isn't any form of cognition there?
As I wrote above - all this argument has one logical consequence - it's ethical to kill an unconscious person (actually even a sleeping person).
>do you know what happened when abortion was outlawed in Romania? The murder and overall crime rates skyrocketed...because there were suddenly scores of street children committing crime to survive.
Well, our murder rate didn't rise, actually it's much lower than in the USA and many other countries with legal abortion, in 2013 it was 0,8/100K
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
>Unless you want many, many children to die of starvation or neglect, the government would have to pay billions of dollars to support children born to mothers who can't afford to raise children.
Not a problem even for relatively poor countries like Poland
>>52835534
>people commit a reproductive act
>try to cheat it by using contraception
>lose their shit and resort to literally killing the baby when surprise surprise, a pregnancy starts
I know this isn't what lefty "do whatever the fuck you want" retards like to hear, but has anyone considered not having sex, if the natural result of it is going to be end of your life? No, we have to be able to have our sex! Fuck consequences and nature and shit!
>>52835534
>let's not give medical care to car crash victims, they knew the risk when they ventured out into the road!
>>52835278
Literally all our debates end with: but what does it cost down the line? And if the answer is that it's cheap or free then there is no resistance. If it costs money like migrants and supporting Greece people get upset.
That's how Dutch politics works.
>>52835549
How's that, exactly?
P.S. Thanks for the shitpost.
>>52835429
>For me, being unconscious is only temporary
A fetus is also only temporarily unconscious.
>>52835603
But you can get pregnant accidentally when birth control fails. Just like fires can start accidentally because the safety measures (such as flame retardant materials) failed.
>>52834904
Eh anyone can get an abortion, it's just technically frowned upon by the state to placate Catholics. Every country should have this sort of compromise.
>>52835456
>Is that a serious question? Murder is a deliberate act you fuctard.
Her body deliberately ''''''killed''''' the fetus. Murder!
>[citation needed]
Uh....read a fucking high school anatomy textbook. Was your education really so bad that you don't even know the basic things that happen during embryonic development? Seriously, go to wikipedia or something at the very least. It will take you like 30 seconds to read about. Did you really form an opinion about what people should be able to do with their own bodies and lives without even knowing the basic information about what occurs?
>Fuck man. Must have been rough on those month old babies if they're already resorting to crime.
...babies grow up, you retard. And, in the case of children forcibly born to people who can't afford to raise children, they are often abandoned at a very young age.
>Surely this isn't the result of the lack of a social security net in Romania. Nope. It's because people can't murder their kids.
LOL
You seriously have no idea what happened in Romania, do you? They had one of the strongest social safety nets in the entire world, and they couldn't contend with the flood of unwanted children born to poor and ill-equipped parents.
>How exactly are all these kids going to starve. They do have parents to care for them.
If somebody elects to have an abortion, it means they can't care for a child...
>Its not my fault you made a bad decision and don't want to take responsibility.
"Somebody had sex and the condom broke, which is somehow a bad decision because they had sex when I can't, so they should be forced to make a more permanent bad decision and burdening taxpayers with another mouth to feed/more crime by creating another life that has to scrounge to survive."
literally retarded.
You would very much pay for everyone's '''''bad decision''''' to have sex when the country is destabilized by a massive underclass and the financial burden. History repeats itself.
>>52835619
Are you people even capable of creating an apt analogy?
Again. You can get in a car crash accidentally. You don't have sex accidentally.
>>52835478
So is killing you when you sleep.
>>52835501
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/when-does-consciousness-arise/
It's after the abortion cut off time in most countries.
>>52835659
But it was never concious in the first place before it becomes concious for the first time. It literally cannot care that it would be aborted. On the other hand, I would very much care about my life being ended, because it has already started.
>>52835466
Don't bother, you're communicating with adult virgins who hate the fact that other people are having sex while they're not and want to see them suffer. Just look at the language that these idiots are using. It's dripping with bitter, impotent nerd rage. They have no rational argument, so they're just resorting to arguing based on fee fees and justifying it by calling the removal of a non-sentient biomass ''''''murder''''''
>>52835667
OK. Then don't have sex. You are aware that pregnancy is a possible consequence of having sex, even if you use contraception. If you don't want to take responsibility for your own actions then don't do the actions in the first place.
Why should someone else (the child) suffer because you don't want to face the consequences of your own actions?
Not to mention fire extinguishers, etc. are there to save lives; whereas abortions can only end them.
>>52835507
It's selfish to have children. People who have kids do so for their own vain ends. Meanwhile, the child itself is forced into a lifetime of anguish and misery.
>>52835679
Again, you are incapable of distinguishing between the consequences of an action and the action itself. You chose to have sex just like you chose to get into a car. You can accidentally get into a wreck just like you can accidentally get pregnant, both are likely to happen when the safety precautions failed.
>>52833094
Took a friend's ex to a baby sucker in Salt Lake it was kinda hidden and all it was a weird thing to do and idk don't like killing baby's myself don't really think you should be able to do it. But the hole rape baby thing is kinda jacked up its a hard subject
>>52835679
I know this may be difficult for you to understand but reproduction is not the purpose of sex, reproduction is merely a byproduct f sex, there's an average of only 15 pregnancies for every 1000 acts of sex, we need sex just like we need food, its not like alcohol where it is literally a choice, we are wired to do it but sometimes it doesn't make sense for every couple to have 8 children, its just not sustainable.
>>52835619
But anon, I can assure you even though abortion is illegal here still all pregnant women have free healthcare.
>>52834962
>Kuklin
>>52835753
But how can something that literally does not have the nervous connections to feel yet suffer? The abortion cut off date is before the fetus becomes concious.
>>52835792
>free healthcare
>free
It's not, it's just paid for by your taxes.
>>52835725
I know, its sad really, I know for a fact that if these neckbeards had had sex in their teens they'd be cool and comfortable with women and sexuality, I think we are shooting ourselves in the foot by denying teenager's sexuality.
>>52835766
After a few minutes of light consideration I guess I'm ain't abortion pop the kid out get a new plastic vagoo and meds for the head case that she will turn in to give kid up for adoption or idk a big rape baby house
>>52835753
So let's get this straight- you think that people should have to pay for the consequences of their actions by burdening society at large with an unwanted life that the parents are ill-equipped to raise and that will likely cost taxpayers massive amounts of money and potentially go on to commit crime or remain in the lower-class. Despite the fact that there is another "consequence" to sex that involves preventing all of this from happening. You would rather see three people fuck their lives up because contraception failed and help destabilize your country at large than see somebody remove a never-sentient cluster of cells that had a ~1/3 chance of being spontaneously aborted within the first trimester anyway. Is this correct?
>>52835324
>are the millions of women whose bodies elect not to carry a baby to term murderers?
I get the feeling that you didn't read a word I said, as someone else basically asked the exact same question and I answered it pretty clearly.
>abortion that is not late-term/emergency occurs before there is any form of sentience. how is it ''''murder'''' if there isn't any form of cognition there?
Because it's the voluntary destruction of something that is set up to become a human life, once it has begun to develop it's gaining its individuality so don't pull the whole "is jacking off murder" shit.
>do you know what happened when abortion was outlawed in Romania? The murder and overall crime rates skyrocketed...because there were suddenly scores of street children committing crime to survive.
The government should have been able to handle poverty, otherwise it's a deep rooted issue that has less to do with abortion than it has to do with plain poverty. Would you suggest that the poor have less children? It would decrease the crime rates among youth.
>Unless you want many, many children to die of starvation or neglect, the government would have to pay billions of dollars to support children born to mothers who can't afford to raise children.
Put them into the adoption system, at least they'll be alive. Also there are plenty of dumb bimbos that aren't neglectful parents, certainly not many who would starve their children to death.
>I could go on and on, but I don't think your opinions have anything to do with morals or values; I think you're just another adult virgin loser who is bitter towards women because they find you repulsive and jealous towards people who have sex.
How is this bitter towards women? I'm just stating my opinion. I fail to see how wanting people to think through their pregnancies is so aggressive and misogynistic. To me it sounds like you're the one getting assblasted and bitter here.
>>52835722
>On the other hand, I would very much care about my life being ended, because it has already started.
Anon, but being unconscious you wouldn't be able to care about anything.
>>52835675
Then send me the link fucker. Don't worry. I'll wait.
>..babies grow up, you retard
You said crime rates went up instantly, you retard.
>And, in the case of children forcibly born to people who can't afford to raise children, they are often abandoned at a very young age.
At least you acknowledge that all you're doing is defending people that don't want to take responsibility for themselves.
>They had one of the strongest social safety nets in the entire world,
[citation needed]
>If somebody elects to have an abortion, it means they can't care for a child...
No it means they don't want to. You vastly overestimate the resources required to raise a child. People in Africa can do it no problem, why can't people in the West? I mean its not like they are earning 10x as much or anything.
>Somebody had sex and the condom broke
Because they weren't aware that that could happen?
>>52835692
There isn't a single citation in that article. I don't care what your qualifications are, you don't get to just say something without backing it up. So I reiterate. There hasn't been a single scientific study to determine when a human fetus becomes conscious.
>>52835883
If someone is forever unconscious, 10/10 times they don't care if you pull the plug.
>>52835791
Are you retarded?
Sexual urges are evolution's way of making us continue the species. It's literally the only biological purpose of having sex. It feeling good i an incentive to make us do it often. Contraception and abortion undermine the whole point, and take the pleasure while cheating the responsibility. I know this term gets thrown around a lot, but it is by definition degenerative, as it puts a stop to nature's method of regenerating the species, and makes people less likely to want kids.
Evolution didn't give us family planning for a reason. If we could naturally choose when to have kids, our species would be nothing compared to what it is. This race was built on unplanned pregnancies.
>>52835883
But in my previously concious state, I already gave the power for someone to decide whether they can pull the plug on my life or not. Fetuses were NEVER able to do that, they never even knew they were alive because they can't think or feel yet.
>>52835848
I don't think that anti-abortion types really think about anything beyond carrying the child to term...like the fact that parenting has a massive influence on the outcome of a child, and that parents of unwanted children are not going to be very good parents. Not to mention the societal burden in regards to financial support and future law enforcement/judicial system fees once these children are grown up. The greatest part is that the anti-abortion cuckservatives on 4chan whine about ''''degenerates''''' without realizing that banning abortion would create scores of them.
>>52835900
>(Further Reading)
>The “Stress” of Being Born. Hugo Lagercrantz and Theodore A. Slotkin inScientific American, Vol. 254, No. 4, pages 100–107 (92–102); April 1986.The Importance of “Awareness” for Understanding Fetal Pain. David J. Mellor, Tamara J. Diesch, Alistair J. Gunn and Laura Bennet inBrain Research Reviews, Vol. 49, No. 3, pages 455–471; November 2005.The Emergence of Human Consciousness: From Fetal to Neonatal Life. Hugo Lagercrantz and Jean-Pierre Changeux inPediatric Research, Vol. 65, No. 3, pages 255–260; March 2009.
Except it did cite it's sources you fucking illiterate dipshit.
>>52834649
It's suddenly not murder because she didn't do it willingly. If someone holds you hostage and forces you to kill someone, a murder may have been committed, but you're not to blame so you shouldn't go to jail.
>>52835398
Having to endure 9 months of prengnancy plus being heavily pressured emotionally and socially to raise a child against your will IS punishment. I don't give a shit if the poor widdle babby gets to live, an innocent women (in most cases quite young) didn't get to live 9-225 months of her life all because she got raped.
>>52835001
Yeah I forgot that the Mexicans don't have a word for "rights", sorry
>>52835914
>banning killings is more degenerate than killing
Come on now. Noe you're just in denial. Just embrace your degenerate nature like we did. No need to lie to yourself.
>>52835909
Except for humans, sex has a dual function of encouraging and solidifying social bonds without necessarily being for reproduction. Even dolphins do it.
>>52835907
Forever means that he/she won't be conscious in the future, while a fetus will be conscious, unless some accident heppens, but you can say the same thing about a man during his non-REM phase of sleep.
>>52835973
No, she did chose to have an abortion willingly. What are you talking about? Somehow the abortion is against her will because she was raped?
>>52835981
And it's not a coincidence that the very same act that strengthens bonds between people also creates children. Families are a natural concept.
>>52835984
That's why I specifically stated forever, because it's not comparable to sleep.
The point is, that the person doesn't have anymore. The persons life does not change if they die then or stay alive.
>>52834996
It's rare as fuck, though, also the supposed 65 bombings are probably VERY loosely "bombings", since I don't recall seeing a report on deaths.
>>52835763
>You chose to have sex just like you chose to get into a car. You can accidentally get into a wreck just like you can accidentally get pregnant, both are likely to happen when the safety precautions failed.
My point exactly. If you get into a car accident, you have to take responsibility for it. Why is the situation different with sex?
>>52835791
Are you people capable of having an honest argument? I never said that procreation was the purpose of sex, merely that it is a possible consequence. Don't see how your post is relevant.
>>52835795
[citation needed]
>>52835853
Explain to me how it is a burden on society at large. No one is ill-equiped to raise a child. They may not want to, but thats got nothing to do with their ability to do so.
> Despite the fact that there is another "consequence" to sex that involves preventing all of this from happening.
The fuck are you talking about. Abortion is not a consequence of having sex. It is the deliberate act of ending the life of a human child. How can you be having this debate and not know that?
How does having more babies destabilize society. You keep making these ridiculous claims.
>>52835871
>I get the feeling that you didn't read a word I said, as someone else basically asked the exact same question and I answered it pretty clearly.
You still didn't answer why a never-sentient cluster of cells that had a 1/3 chance of being aborted anyway should be considered a human life.
>Because it's the voluntary destruction of something that is set up to become a human life, once it has begun to develop it's gaining its individuality so don't pull the whole "is jacking off murder" shit.
Unfertilized gametes also have unique sets of chromosomes. Is birth control that renders them unable to attach to the uterine wall murder as well? What's the difference aside from how many cells are involved?
>The government should have been able to handle poverty, otherwise it's a deep rooted issue that has less to do with abortion than it has to do with plain poverty.
Romania was an economically prosperous socialist country when they outlawed abortion. They of all countries were the most equipped to handle a population surge like that. Unfortunately, you can't force parents struggling to survive to be good parents to children they never wanted, and even a prosperous government can't support thousands or millions of abandoned children.
>Would you suggest that the poor have less children? It would decrease the crime rates among youth.
YES. 100% yes. People who can't afford to raise well-adjusted children should not be having them. It is burdensome to society and sets the children up for miserable lives.
>Put them into the adoption system, at least they'll be alive.
What happens when there's a glut of children, or the bioparents give up at an age that makes children almost unadoptable (i.e. past ~3yo)?
>Also there are plenty of dumb bimbos that aren't neglectful parents, certainly not many who would starve their children to death.
(cont)
>>52836005
I meant getting pregnant, smartass
>>52836042
It is a burden to society at large because taxes are extracted at gun point from the rest of us. The social services needed to provide for unwanted children cost tax dollars. Therefore it is a burden to society at large.
>>52835942
Further reading is not citations dip shit. Not a single fucking footnote in the entire article you uneducated filth.
>>52836025
Do you know what humans also created? Birth control so that we can have sex without consequences. How is that not a natural desire? It is a result of our instincts for sex and pair bonding, and our instincts telling us this isn't the time to raise a baby.
>>52834599
>on request
Seriously? No requirements? That's really sad. You can tell it's completely political as well, some city council member wanted to make a big speech and say "ALL CITIZENS CAN GET ABORTIONS!" They have no restrictions only because it doesn't sound as flashy, which is why politicians have no souls.
>>52835675
most of the worlds population is born out of rape from wars to hardships to plain old bad luck.
it doesn't make it right its just how most of the population was made.
>>52835398
lol like getting pregnant and giving birth isn't a major health and financial burden?
>>52836061
But why does getting pregnant unintentionally make it not murder to end a life intentionally? All you're arguing is that the murder is justified.
>>52836073
It literally cites the author as "CHRISTOF KOCH is Lois and Victor Troendle Professor of Cognitive and Behavioral Biology at the California Institute of Technology. He serves onScientific American Mind'sboard of advisers.", a title that seems qualified to speak on the subject, and it links to the sources where the information came from. But please, continue to ignore that and hurl insults at me instead.
>>52836066
I would gladly pay extra tax dollars to stop murder. How fucking greedy are you?
Not to mention that when these children grow up they will be tax paying members of society, and in just about all instances (i.e. apart from disabled children) will pay more tax during their lifetime than is paid to them in the form of social security.
>>52835911
But I don't understand why should I care about your "previously concious state"? I may say that a fetus in his/her subsequent conscious state will be able to express his will and we should wait for it. First your way of reasoning was like "it's ethical to kill an unconscious subject", now you introduce some exception, why shouldn't we introduce my exception instead?
>>52836138
I guess I'll repeat myself since you're too stupid to read my posts.
>I don't care what your qualifications are, you don't get to just say something without backing it up.
>>52836052
even now, with abortion legal, there are still parents to unwanted children who raise them with neglect, causing them to live their lives in poverty and crime because they've never had a stable life and don't know how to achieve one. While some parents would step up, that relatively small number wouldn't account for the large amounts of unwanted children born to neglectful parents and the social instability that this would cause. Even if financial benefits could cover their basic necessities, their home life would damn them anyway.
>How is this bitter towards women? I'm just stating my opinion. I fail to see how wanting people to think through their pregnancies is so aggressive and misogynistic.
You essentially called people with unwanted pregnancies bimbos for the sin of having sex and implying that they made a bad decision and should be punished (for 18+ years). Many, many unwanted pregnancies come from safe sex where the contraception failed or there was a hormonal issue that rendered it ineffective. I agree that abortion shouldn't be taken lightly, but it seems vindictive to permanently ruin/change three lives for what amounts to a technical failure, especially given that the third life isn't sentient yet. Even pro-choice people don't take abortion lightly unless they're crazy feminazis, as evidenced by the large group of unwanted children who are alive today. The ones who resort to abortion are overwhelmingly the ones who absolutely can't raise a child in their current conditions.
>>52836145
So violence against me and millions of others that didn't consent is OK, but it's wrong against a clump of cells that was never concious?
>>52835909
Our brain is also wired to reward the consumption of high fat, high energy foods, and yet if we just go along with our instincts and consume as much of it as we can we'll get fat and die from diseases and complications related to that, nature is not perfect, it didn't anticipate us getting to this advanced point where we have so much control over our environment, so following it instead of following common sense is absolutely retarded.
So I'll be sticking with my diet coke and vasectomy.
Fuck nature.
>>52836147
No, my ethical reasoning is that it's not wrong to "kill" something that never existed, I never ever ever treated something that existed but was temporarily unconscious as the same as something that was never concious.
>>52836042
>The fuck are you talking about. Abortion is not a consequence of having sex. It is the deliberate act of ending the life of a human child. How can you be having this debate and not know that?
It results from having sex and is such a consequence.
>How does having more babies destabilize society. You keep making these ridiculous claims.
Open up your nearest history book and take a look at what happened to Romania when they outlawed abortion.
>>52836029
OK, but now I'm lost - how is that related to your right to kill any fetus? A fetus is not unconscious "forever".
abortion should be banned, only faggots and retards could be for it. and I'm not a religious person.
last i checked U.S. was still completely divided on this issue, to the point that it's a discussion people actively avoid
>>52836145
>when these children grow up they will be tax paying members of society
lol nope. The people who are getting the most abortions tend to be poorer people who can't afford another mouth to feed, and a ton of unwanted kids being raised by poor families sounds like a shitstorm in the making.
>>52836162
>I'm literally too lazy to read the citations so I'll just assume it means there are none and nobody is qualified to talk on the subject unless they agree with my views
>>52835973
>he still thinks the government is limited by the constitution and doesn't just do what it wants.
So innocent, so naive.
>>52836172
>killing a fetus
>not violence
>taxes
>violence
At least you USAins are always good for a laugh.
>>52836145
pseudocanada, pliz
it will be better for everyone if you will spend our time studing french to become a normal canadien
>>52836231
If I don't pay my taxes, I get taken to jail. If I resist arrest, they can use even more violence against me, to the point of possibly killing me. How is that no violence? I am forced to pay my hard earned money to the state, or they will use violence against me.
It seems my generation is much more against abortion than generation x was. I know a lot of people around my age who at kids at 16 or 17 and are literally the worst fucking parents. Their children are barely even domesticated. My cousin has a kid whom I refer to as "the goblin" because he runs around making weird noises screeching at people and breaking things when he's upset. His father is nonexistant in his life and he is about 8 yet talks in the broken English of a 3 year old. I shudder to think what his generation will be like.
>>52836199
The fetus's life is also, the same at that moment in time, whether it dies or not, to the fetus.
>anglo"""""""canada"""""""
>speaking the most introlerant language ever
>actually making the language genocide
>talking about tolerance
faggots..
>>52836042
Ok then, I suppose that we agree that just like someone injured in a car accident, who obviously didn't mean to crash or get crashed into, an accidental pregnancy can and should be treated.
if abortions are made illegal people will try to get them illegally. its the same argument with guns
>>52836295
society hasn't to care about 0,2% of psychopauts
>>52836231
A blastocyst is obviously not a human being. It's a lump of flesh that is less sentient than a frog.
>>52836194
>It results from having sex and is such a consequence.
It does not result from having sex, it results from having made the decision to have an abortion.
Is running a consequence of learning how to walk?
>Open up your nearest history book and take a look at what happened to Romania when they outlawed abortion.
>Expecting other people to do your research for you
LOL
>>52836226
Do you have any level of post secondary education? Further reading is not a citation. You need to have a foot/end note for every claim you make.
>>52836223
>Poor people don't pay taxes
K
now it's a thread with faggot's and retards's quotes
I'll begin
EMBRYO IS A PART OF WOMEN'S BODY
I didn't know that women's repropuctions is the same as potato has
>>52836309
idk what youre trying to say
>>52836295
>if we make something illegal, then if people do it, they'd be breaking the law!
>better just legalise it
The gun argument only works with your country, because it actually would devolve and destruct the country if guns were banned. Our gun violence has gone down monumentally since John Howard bought back and regulated guns in 1996. It didn't just move the crime underground, it largely stopped as most people in the suburbs didn't have or need guns anymore.
>>52836360
Murrica is a really strange place, you care about herring whores and about psychopauts, but your societs doesn't give an opportunity to study at an university by free
>>52836346
Ah, dammit. I guess the formatting that the citation was given in totally disqualified my argument! Seriously, why are you afraid of looming into the "further reading" section? Why avoid it this hard and hurl insults at me? Just read it and get back to me.
>>52836370
the argument works with a lot of things not necessarily just guns. But it is a fact that people will still try to get abortions even if its outlawed.
>>52836262
>How is that no violence?
>pay my hard earned money to the state, or they will use violence against me.
I think you answered your own question bud. You have a choice.
Why am I surprised that this boils down to you not wanting to take responsibility? You live in a society which provides you with various benefits. You don't get them for free.
>Ok then, I suppose that we agree that just like someone injured in a car accident, who obviously didn't mean to crash or get crashed into, an accidental pregnancy can and should be treated.
Wut. So because we save car crash victims lives murder is OK? Nice logic.
>>52836427
I also have a choice when being mugged, I can comply with the robber and give him my wallet or get shot. That doesn't mean it isn't violent.
>>52836427
Parle humain ou vas en Britagne
>>52836170
ofanages exist for a reason is people like you that think they know what is right. Its still murder to kill a kid be it born or unborn.
Its not the kids fault it was born its the way you hanndle it
I have a child now but i could of had two.
My wife morned our aborted child it hurt her even now ever time its bought up
Kids don't respawn like in video games liberal
abortion fags are usually faggots and old woman that have affairs and rarely minors
But its not the kids fault that happened why does the kid have to die because of that?
this is my regret that's why it woun't happen again.
the only reason your pro abortion is because
-you ether never saw it happen
- haven't done it before or witnessed it,
- you can't feel pitty,
- your just a empty soul.
- your selffish
Pick one.
I was in the selffish catory and i tell you now you will regret it.
that little person is apart of you and you just killed it
the suffering I cannot even have words for it, the pain to my heart is more unbearable then lossing a family pet and it NEVER goes away.
ITS STILL MURDER. I payed to god to forgive me for 7 years and on the 7th year i got my wish i got another kid and a son but i always remember my frist would of been a girl
;_;
I don't want other parents to go though what i went though its too awful.
NEVER.
AGAIN.
EVER.
>>52836417
We may as well just do away with having any crimes at all, since people still commit them.
>>52836427
>Wut. So because we save car crash victims lives murder is OK? Nice logic.
Not them, but I love how every time your argument gets fucked you just bring in another one and act like that means you were right.
>>52836469
i just think there should be a safe way to get an abortion. not using a coat hanger in a shady motel
>>52836463
No you neocon righty, you're not allowed to say abortion isn't good! That might make others second guess their decisions and not abort the kid! And you know we can't have that!
>>52836231
swatting a fly is more violent than aborting a fetus.
>>52836502
abortion is just a way how herring whores trying to manipulate man
I don't know what brain damage man should have to be pro-choice
retards
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNqvzyBh2XY
>>52836452
Again with the terrible analogies. Do you seriously think that taxes are theft?
You think you shouldn't have to pay for your country's infrastructure? You think the armed forces which keep you safe are free? Who do expect to pay for all of the services which your government provides?
>>52836463
you do know that there are plenty of people who had abortions and dont regret it right?
>>52836540
I think paying for roads and the army is more justifiable than paying for Laquisha's third child because I benefit from roads and the military, I do not benefit from paying for food stamps for Laquisha's family.
I like how even though the only people really needing abortions are dindus and white trash and generally scummy people, cuckservatives are somehow against abortion. The people aborting these kids are lower crash trash who can't afford them. That kid is going to be a fucking criminal anyway. If you want them to have those kids, you can pay for the fucking welfare that mommy is probably going to collect and spend on crack anyway.
>>52836624
*lower class
>>52836624
Because there is more at stake.
We believe babies have the right to be born, rather than terminated because their life would inconvenience someone else.
>>52832121
Enough of an issue for people to kill each other over, which is my job to prevent.
>>52836192
Well, I'm only trying to show that this way of reasoning seems to be really strange for me - during his lifetime any given human goes through phases - some are conscious, some are unconscious, statistically we sleep for about 1/3 of our lifetime, so saying that being a human means being conscious is clearly false (not counting other unconscious states/phases we can potentially undergo). Moreover, we all start our life as an uncoscious organism, yes, but then we achieve a conscious stage and then (INEVITABLY) we achieve an unconscious stage, and conscious, and unconscious and so on. Of course, you are saying that a fetus was never conscious, yea, OK, but it/he/she will be INEVITABLY conscious, unless some accident happens (eg. a meeting with some abortionist).
Abortion = murder. It should only be allowed when mom has a risk of dying.
I have never heard a proper argument on how it isn't murder and why do moms have the privilege to murder babies if they feel like it. You can't just say a fetus isn't a human without providing extensive proof.
Not sure why I replied to this obvious troll thread
>>52836657
Why? Do you cry everytime someone ejaculates outside of a vagina? That sperm is being denied of its right to live. By your logic all men should have to wear a lock on their dick that they can only remove for approved procreation.
>>52832961
Mate crazed Christfags literally bomb and shoot up abortion clinics all the time, Theyre just like Mudslimes
>>52836346
>K
it's hard to pay taxes when you're in prison because your momma didn't love you.
>>52836703
the fetus isnt alive. seriously, take it out of the mother. does it survive? if the answer is no, then its not alive
>>52834725
Radelaidean here.
I think Victoria and Tasmania have the most reasonable policies.
>>52834755
It's not whether it's alive. It's whether it's a person.
>>52836685
I don't care that something could potentially be concious. Right now, it does not have the necessary neurons connected to have a will to survive. I do. Therefore ending my life is different from ending its "life". Stopping the development of something that could become concious is not the same as ending consciousness of something that has already experienced consciousness.
>>52836727
Please refrain from posting in the future
>>52836346
>>Poor people don't pay taxes
>K
They actually don't though.
>>52836780
why?
>>52836703
>I have never heard a proper argument on how it isn't murder and why do moms have the privilege to murder babies if they feel like it.
Notice how whenever abortion is brought up, liberals try to frame it as a womens' rights issue?
Clearly it has nothing to do with womens' rights. Conservatives don't sit around and think "What right can we target to make womens' lives harder?"
Thus why liberals need to change the argument into an issue conservatives can't reasonably oppose, since the real argument (an unborn child's right to live) is something they can't reasonably oppose.
>>52836727
If it wasn't alive, then you wouldn't be able to measure its survival as it wouldn't die. Honestly, do you people even think when you type out these posts?
>>52836776
Most abortions are made when the fetus has already developef
>>52836098
It's called freedom
As an American you wouldn't know anything about that
>>52836830
Source? Because the sources posted ITT say consciousness occurs around 24-28 weeks, and the abortion limit in most countries is 20-21 weeks.
>>52836826
>If it wasn't alive, then you wouldn't be able to measure its survival as it wouldn't die. Honestly, do you people even think when you type out these posts?
my point is that it isnt alive like some people on here are claiming.
>>52836471
What the fuck are you talking about?
When was my argument destroyed?
You use shitty analogies, I point out how they are dumb, and somehow I'm bringing in new arguments? I guess I'll go through it all again, since you're clearly quite slow.
Originally he compared having sex to getting into a car crash.
So I Said: You can get into a car crash accidentally. You can't have sex accidentally. Still have yet to hear you explain how sex is an accident.
Then Mr. Mexico moved the goalposts. He changed his analogy from having sex to getting pregnant.
So I said (In not as many words, I'll admit): If you crash into someone else's car you pay for the damage (taking responsibility). If having sex results in a pregnancy, you raise the child (taking responsibility). I don't see what's so difficult to understand.
Then the analogy gets changed again. Now its comparing having an abortion to providing medical care to a car crash victim.
I fail to see how providing medical care to someone who was in a car crash (saving a life) analogous to murdering a fetus because someone had sex (ending a life). Go ahead explain to me how saving a life is similar to ending a life.
And somehow from all of this you got:
>but I love how every time your argument gets fucked you just bring in another one and act like that means you were right.
From all of this? You might want to get your head checked for a brain tumour or something. Your mental processing is clearly impaired (or maybe you're just retarded).
Fuck, this site works like shit today, I'm out, thanks for discussion, anons.
>>52836281
Again - so is any heavily intoxocated/sleeping/whatever man.
>>52836837
>>52836657
The baby didn't ask to be born, if anything he's being forced to exist without his consent.
>>52836895
Are you fucking dumb, or what? Not even the most retarded pro-murderers argue that the fetus is not alive.
>>52836837
>Gay marriage not legal
>Still number 3
Glad to see the authors considered more than just meme rights when they put this together
>>52836943
have you ever actually done any research at all on this topic or are you trolling?
>>52836668
Since when do you work there?
Are you a public or private employee?
What is your personal view on abortion?
>>52836937
Jean Paul, pls
>>52836937
If you don't enjoy your life you're free to go and kill yourself. Don't place that burden on someone else.
You are fucking evil bro. Like that dude from Sandy Hook; wanting to kill children because you hate yourself.
>>52836788
>what are sales tax
>what is payroll tax
>what are property taxes
>>52836978
I got hired two weeks ago. I have no idea what your second question means. I am pro choice.
>>52836543
Anyone who ends the life of a living thing (especially a fetus) out of convenience is a literal psychopath lacking any sort of coherent moral drive or "soul"
>>52832247
We don't call the IRA/UDF terrorists?
>>52836937
>contrarian comebacks
I didn't ask to read your fucking awful posts either, but then they just sprang right up on my screen.
>>52836727
This is retarded logic. A 3 year old child couldn't survive without its mother.
>>52836970
Admittedly not as much as I do for other subjects. But there is no way you can say that a fetus is not alive because that is 100% false.
I'll concede that I may be wrong on the whole consciousness point, since I haven't done enough research and its certainly within the realm of possibilities. But a fetus is a living organism conscious or not, you can't debate that.
And it still doesn't change my viewpoint, even if they aren't conscious.
>>52837009
by public or private he means are you hired by the government or do you work for a business
>>52837029
outside the womb it can you fucking dumbass, thats what makes it alive
>>52837045
weather or not its alive is actually a huge debate in the topic of abortion
>>52837060
Planned Parenthood is a 501 (c)(3) nonprofit corporation
>>52836943
>Not even the most retarded pro-murderers argue that the fetus is not alive.
You;d be surprised how many (especially in the US) are willing to twist elementary school biological facts to obscure that they're murderers. Ask your average abortion supporter about the biological definition of life and you'll just get "muh clump of cells". They have no idea what they're talking about, which is why they're not pro-choice.
>>52837009
It means is you salary paid by a governmental organization (Public) or a private organization.
I'm pretty sure you'd be private since PP is a non-profit which receives government funding.
>>52837077
Well clearly it is alive.
A table is not alive. A "clump of cells" is alive (every single thing that is alive is a "clump of cells"). There's absolutely no argument that a foetus is alive. The problem is liberals subverting things by claiming it's an issue of women being able to choose when they get pregnant, rather an issue of killing a living thing and stripping it of the right to life, which is considered by many as a basic human right. It is still a human, at an earlier point of development.
>>52837077
I guess that depends on how you define alive then. But if you go by the dictionary definition, it's alive, and as I already said this is not debatable. If it wasn't alive, it wouldn't grow (cell mitosis).
I think you're trying to talk about consciousness, bro.
>>52837085
Are you armed?
Body armour?
Salty riffles?
>>52836703
A fetus isn't a baby, come the fuck on. At less than 20 weeks it isn't conscious and it can't comprehend any kind of pain or emotions like an infant can. After that things get fuzzier, but calling the removal of an unthinking lump of tissue with some bits of organs in it murder is totally absurd.
>>52837162
Body armor, baton, OC spray, pistol.
>>52837177
>calling the removal of an unthinking lump of tissue with some bits of organs in it murder is totally absurd
So I can murder you and get away with it?
>>52837151
Wrong. It has nothing to do with "liberals" and up to a certain point - it ain't a baby yet. Its a sack of cells. Anyone who thinks abortion is a political issue let alone an issue is a dumb fuck. You're a dumb fuck. Abortion is green and should be promoted.
>>52837177
At what point does it turn into a fetus (without any rights) to a baby (with all the rights of every other human being)?
>>52837151
cancer is a "clump of cells" btw. should we keep that around or is it murder as well?
>>52837160
as far as biology goes there is no consensus as to when life begins
>>52832121
After 23 weeks of pregnancy, a baby has a 50/50 chance of surviving outside of the womb and becoming a healthy child (Wikipedia premature births). Any abortion after that point is murder, IMO. Anything before that? Debatable. I still don't like it, but it's debatable.
I'm torn on abortion, I have a cousin that has 5 kids from 3 different fathers. Her parents and herself are super religious so abortion never entered the conversation, now she is raising 5 girls all mostly by herself in government housing and on welfare. I sometimes look after one or two of her kids by taking them out to the movies, stores to buy them toys or the zoo and it breaks my heart because they get really attached to me since their mother can't give them all the same amount of attention that I do.
On the other hand, my sister had an abortion which caused her to go into a depression, dropped out of uni and lose contact with most of her friends. Now she's on disability while living at home with my parents who should be enjoying their retirement years but they're stuck looking after her. When she tried moving in with me for a few months so our parents could travel Europe and America she was a constant attention whore and would hint at hurting herself if I didn't come straight home from work or uni to keep her company.
>>52837160
>>52837177
If we use consciousness as a criteria, abortion could be done much later than it can be now. The limit is somewhat arbitrary and based on appearance and size of the body, not on what goes on in the mind of the child.
>>52837177
And what term exactly should be used then for the deliberate ending of the life of another human?
(Sorry for double post)
>al these pro-choice white knight beta cucks ITT
>>52837234
Are you saying a baby is a cancer?
Cancer is a disease which kills you. Majority of anti-abortionists will tell you it is justified in cases where the mother or baby's life is in jeopardy.
Yes, it's okay to kill cancer cells. They are also not human, and we don't believe the right to life applies to diseases.
>>52837234
>as far as biology goes there is no consensus as to when life begins
>being this dumb
Again. The word you're looking for is conciousness.
A fetus is alive from the moment it comes into existence, otherwise it would not be able to perform cell mitosis. I can't believe I'm having to repeat grade school science.
>>52837224
I'm not an expert on the topic, but I'd say by the third trimester they become sentient enough that calling them human is no longer absurd. However I'm still opposed to banning third trimester abortions because there are lots of severe health deformities which can't be detected up until that moment, and I don't think it's reasonable for the government to require a mother to carry a child that they've learned is severely disabled to term.
>>52837299
http://www.biology-online.org/dictionary/Life
read this and get back to me
>>52837280
>Niggers threatened that their genes will die out when their rape babies are removed.
>>52837085
You're private then.
You should ask to have a gun, crazy Hicks will certainly have one, wouldn't want you to end up like those unarmed cops in the Charlie Hebdo massacre.
>>52837331
Do you believe that people with disabilities should be killed? If not, what makes killing a fetus with disabilities any different?
>>52837368
>implying anyone thinks abortion isn't justified in cases of rape or when one's life is at stake
>>52837393
some people do
>>52837335
LOL You though I don't know the characteristics of life? Nice projection, but not everyone is as ignorant as you.
Pray tell, which characteristic does a fetus not meet?
>>52837393
Sweden yes.
>>52837434
>some
>all
>>52837487
>anyone == all
>>52837452
>nice projection
did you actually read it?
>There is no consensus regarding the answer to the question as to when does life begin
weird, i found it no problem.
and it doesnt matter what my opinion is, biologists do not agree on when life begins, how the fuck can you be denying that?
>>52837525
Did you?
The fetus meets all 7 characteristics of life (the site you linked is shit btw).
>>52837525
>>52837452
Thanks for answering my question btw. I'll assume that means you've conceded the point.
>>52837541
there is no consensus on when life begins. seriously look it up, i cant do that for you. there are many schools of thought on the subject. the fact that you are denying the debate exists is straight up retarded
FACT: If Roe vs Wade never happened and abortion wasn't legalized the U.S. would be 60% black by now.
>>52837615
If there is debate, is aborting babies anyway the best moral route to take?
>>52837673
Source?
>>52837615
There are many schools as to when human life begins, but life in this instance is a misnomer. The fetus was always alive.
When people talk about the beginning of human life they're talking about when the fetus becomes a person. This is a completely different issue from whether or not the fetus is alive.
Also, I'm sorry to point it out, but you're clearly dumb as a sack of potatos. First you link me to a site which lists the characteristics of life, then you start talking about the consensus on when life begins. Do you not see how these two things are contradictory? First you link me to a definitive list of what makes something alive, then you tell me there's no consensus. Which one is it?
Please, if you don't know what your're talking about, that's fine, just don't act like you do.
And somehow I'm the retard? baka
>>52832150
I dont't see anything bad with eugenics 2bh. If done moderately it can prevent a lot of suffering, I mean who would really want to have a totally disabled child or a kid with a fatal disease?
Select those who are not disabled and without any fatal diseases and you are good to go
>>52837673
>all those potential black twitter users
>gone forever
>>52837792
Because where does it end? Once you say that certain human lives are more than others it's a very slippery slope. First its the disableds, then its the gays, then its the communists, then its the jews.
You should know that better than any of us, Germany.
>>52837388
raising a child with severe disabilities can be a terrible emotional burden on the parents and can ruin lives. Imagine if you and your wife found out that your soon-to-be child will never be able to speak, never be able to move or eat unassisted, will never be able to hold a job, will [probably] never find love, and will require constant supervision for the entirety of their lives. You will never perform 90% of the activities you envisioned doing with your child, you will never attend their high school graduation, you will never attend their wedding. You will be stuck spoonfeeding them day in and day out until you and your wife both die and a caretaker replaces you, unless you want to put them up for adoption and let them become a ward of the state where you know they'll probably be neglected.
It would be immensely cruel to force a woman, who was obviously expecting to give birth to and raise a normal child, to undergo such an ordeal.
>>52837685
> is aborting babies anyway the best moral route to take?
idk, im probably not the best person to be talking to about morals. But yeah its a debate as well
>>52837757
>There are many schools as to when human life begins, but life in this instance is a misnomer. The fetus was always alive.
do you not see how this is contradictory? seriously, my point is that there is no actual consensus among scientists as to when life begins. once again look it up.
and you call me dumb? seriously. just do a quick google search
>>52837615
you stupid fucking faggot, the root of the problem of abortion debate was never "when the fetus is alive" because it's alive by all definitions of "alive" from the moment of conception. Even your fucking sperm cells are live things. The question is about whether or not the fetus is conscious being and thus can understand what's happening to it
if you have any more questions regarding this simple fact contact me at
[email protected]
>>52837673
Is this a fact or a "Pol Fact"
>>52837388
Yes? What kind of question is that? Severely mentally disabled babbies or babbies born with deformities are a burden on society as well as the retard's close ones.
>>52837863
you stupid faggot look up "is a fetus alive" on google and tell me what you get. its a fucking debate
>>52832121
>Is abortion still a debated issue in your country?
No, most people think abortions are evil and a murder, and it's so overwhelmingly an unanimous opinion that it's not even argue about it.
I sometimes hate this place, although they are legal in Mexico City.
>>52837827
Nah mate. Like I said, just hardcore disabled, like the Hartley Hooligans or kids who would die anyway within their first days or weeks.
I wouldn't want my kids to suffer through this just because others feel good if they keep everything and everyone alive who shouldn't be alive.
After all you end the suffering of your pets when they are terminal ill, why let humans suffer?
>>52837855
>seriously, my point is that there is no actual consensus among scientists as to when life begins. once again look it up.
You just keep repeating this without any consideration to the extent of the word, competely missing Canada's point.
>>52837930
>its a fucking debate
In Jesusland
>>52836837
OH SAY CAN YOU SEE?
