Where is the Urheimat (primary homeland) of the Indo-Europeans?
Black Sea? Ukraine? Russia? Turkey? East-Asia? Atlantis? Thule? Aldebaran?
Why and when did they start that massive migration and what has made them so successful?
Discuss.
>>991798
ENGLAND
>>991798
Hyperborea.
>>991798
We don't know. It was probably a very large area which is why its confusing.
Let me tell you about
>The fair Yima, the good shepherd
He was the Zoroastrian Adam and Noah combined into a single character. The Wise Lord entrusted him with the duty of overseeing creation and increasing and multiplying:
>make thou my world increase, make my world grow: consent thou to nourish, to rule, and to watch over my world
He placed him on the ancestral Aryan homeland called Airyana Vaejo, until the arch-demon Angra Mainyu caused "evil winters" (the Ice Age?) to befall the the Urheimat and the Aryans migrated southwards.
This ancestral memory is also recorded in Hindu tradition (See: Tilak: Arctic Home of the Vedas)
Before the great migration, however, king Yima was commanded to build a Vara (enclosure) to preserve all creatures:
>And Yima made a Vara, long as a riding-ground on every side of the square. There he brought the seeds of sheep and oxen, of men, of dogs, of birds, and of red blazing fires. He made a Vara, long as a riding-ground on every side of the square, to be an abode for men; a Vara, long as a riding-ground on every side of the square, for oxen and sheep.
http://www.avesta.org/vendidad/vd2sbe.htm
>>991825
Yima in Hinduism and Buddhism:
>Yama or Yamarāja, also called Imra,[1] is a god of death, the south direction & the underworld,[2] belonging to an early stratum of Rigvedic deities. In Sanskrit, his name can be interpreted to mean "twin".[3] In the Zend-Avesta of Zoroastrianism, he is called "Yima".
Why did he become a god of the dead in Hinduism and Buddhism? Because, being the first mortal, he was also the first one to die and the first to arrive in the kingdom of the dead (or traversing the pritryana, the "way of the fathers") and became the ruler thereof.
>In the Vedas, Yama is said to have been the first mortal who died. By virtue of precedence, he became the ruler of the departed,[8] and is called "Lord of the Pitrs".[9]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yama
According to the Rigveda:
>2 Yama first found for us a place to dwell in: this pasture never can be taken from
Us.
Men born on earth tread their own paths that lead them whither our ancient Fathers have departed.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/rigveda/rv10014.htm
>>991827
Yima in the Norse Tradition (disputed):
>In a disputable[according to whom?] etymology, W. Meid (1992) has linked the names Yama (reconstructed in Proto-Indo-European as *yemos) and the name of the primeval Norse frost giant Ymir, which can be reconstructed in Proto-Germanic as *umijaz or *jumijaz, in the latter case possibly deriving from PIE *ym̥yos, from the root yem "twin". In his myth, however, Ymir is not a twin, and only shares with Yama the characteristics of being primeval and mortal. However, Ymir is a hermaphrodite and engenders the race of giants.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yama
WE WUZ ATLANTIS AND SHIET
>>991828
Thus answering OP somewhere to the north and they went south after it froze, as per Iranian and Hindu traditions.
>>991798
>Urheimat
>Literally using Nazi """"""""""""""""scholarship"""""""""""""""""" terms.
>>991835
Wow, association fallacy and reductio ad hitlerum in a single sentence.
OP is literally Hitler!!! Are you kidding me????
>>991835
I hope you are kidding. The term "Urheimat" existed even before Hitler was born.
>>991835
t.
>>991798
It's pretty much settled that they came from Ukraine
>>991825
And where is Airyana Vaejo?
>>991874
At the PIE homeland duh.
>tfw people talk about Proto-Indo-Europeans all the time but never the language
>>991902
I actually do. Pic related.
>>991825
Reminds me on the Atraḫasis-Myth a bit.
>>991874
sibirija
>>991929
proofs?
>>991907
>no laryngeals
>no accent
>>991942
Laryngeals are fucked up and my phone keyboard has not every accents.
>>991929
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andronovo_culture
Yamna culture, a development of the earlier Sanara culture and Stredny Strog cultures. All in Ukraine.
Read the article "massive migration from the steppe" is responsible for european languages etc , it goes into the genetics of the three main waves of immigration into ancient europe, the last of which was horse and cart using Yamna cture people.
>*Dyēus Ph2tēr (literally "sky father") is the god of the day-lit sky and the chief god of the Indo-European pantheon. The name survives in Greek Zeus with a vocative form Zeu pater; Latin Jūpiter (from the archaic Latin Iovis pater; Diēspiter), Sanskrit Dyáus Pitā, and Illyrian Dei-pátrous.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_religion
Can someone explain what these little letters, asteriscs and numbers in every PIE word mean?
*Dyēus Ph2tēr
Who am I supposed to pronounce this?
>>991963
How*
I hate how modern historians, for very obvious political reasons, say that the Indo-European expansion wasn't based on conquest, but on trade and cultural assimilation.
Yes, all those chariots were used just for long distance commerce, sure.
P.I.E. *nokwt-
Modern English night
OLD ENGLISH niht
GERMAN Nacht
LATIN noctis
GREEK nuktos
RUSSIAN noch'
SANSKRIT naktam
SPANISH noche
FRENCH nuit
Interesting website:
http://colfa.utsa.edu/drinka/pie/
>>991798
Polish language is the closest to a Sanskrit
>>991981
Lithuanian IMO.
SON: Sanskrit sunus - Lithuanian sunus
SHEEP: Sanskrit avis - Lithuanian avis
SOLE: Sanskrit padas - Lithuanian padas
MAN: Sanskrit viras - Lithuanian vyras
SMOKE: Sanskrit dhumas - Lithuanian dumas
http://vilnews.com/2011-04-incredible-indian-lithuanian-relations-2
>>991984
Lithuanians confirmed for poo in the loo.
>>991963
The asterisk means the word is reconstructed, i.e. not directly attested.
h1 h2 h3 are phonemes of uncertain value, called laryngeals. They are usually thought to be guttural consonants, like <h> in English, or <ch> in German, or even those throaty sounds in Semitic languages.
h2 was probably pronounced as a schwa inbetween consonants, which sounds like the "a" in the English word "about".
>>991997
Impressive. Linguistics is a freakish science if they got this right without having never heard or read anything in PIE.
>>991963
You aren't.
PIE isn't a "real" language. It's a hypothetical construct. You can't actually "speak" PIE. If we were to suddenly discover that a previously unknown uncontacted population of speakers of an unknown Indo-European language were living on the island of Boipuccios off the coats of Greece then PIE would change overnight.
In the most literal sense, it's because we don't know what the sounds are. We can make good APPROXIMATIONS, but how they actually sounded is impossible to know. That's just the actual noises, it doesn't account for accent or stress for example.
Thus, the *, superscript lines, and numbers are linguistic "coding". The Laryngeal theory, for example, deals with three sounds, each being denoted by "*h" and a subscript number (1-3).
So, to answer your question
>Who am I supposed to pronounce this?
You aren't.
>>992011
>We can make good APPROXIMATIONS
But that's how exact sciences work too. If you make a close enough approximation with the error tending to zero it is as good as zero and not considered an error at all.
/hislit/ is dominated by pseudo-intellectual leftists who cling on to outdated ideas from the 1960s with a couple of mouthbreathing /pol/acks sharing their own ideas.
You'll hardly get any truthful and informed answers from here.
This one >>991952
is pretty close, but these cultures didn't just exist in Ukraine but extended deep into Russia and Kazakhstan as well. Samara isn't even in Ukraine but in Russia near Kazakhstan.
>>992034
>cultures didn't just exist in Ukraine
yeah, because there is no such thing as Ukraine, ever
>>992009
It really is. Ferdinand de Saussure deduced the existence of laryngeals just by looking at Sanskrit morphology. Then 100 years later Hittite was discovered and confirmed it.
>>992011
>>992021
>YOURE NOT MENT TO, ITS GOT A *
Stop splitting hairs, and give the guy a break. Hes a nonlinguist wanting a rough estimation, you dont need to get on your linguistics high horse.
Attempting to pronounce PIE is orders of magnitude more useful than , for example, wasting time on a conlang. It should be encouraged, especially as we do have a few languages like lithuanian that do still resemble *PIE quite closely. Learning PIE has helped me with learning all its daughter languages, and would probably be more useful to learn than lating or greek these days.
PIE for the offical language of the European Union!
That having been said, linguistics is a nice mix of art and science, and doesnt get into statistics nearly as much as say psychology. So you cant r3ally use the 'approximation with error tending to zero' argument here.
Basically, Linguists are very aware that their dara and methods are too crap to make scientifically valud assertions over timelines any longer than a few centuries at best, and so always try to cover their arse with a *.
-t. Linguist
>>992034
Yeah yeah, that general pontic-Caspian steppe and adjacent area. Im not ukrainian or anything, just using it as shorthand.
Just read the massive migration from the steppe article senpai, its got genetics of 20000 year old siberian mummies and shit, its awesome!
>>992060
Also Kazakh stan has no business owning territory west of the Ural river in therefore in europe.
I cant believe Russia got all indiangiver with the crimea, but lets turks aim a dagger at its heart... still, i guess russian strategy has never made sense. If it were up to me, the Aral sea would have been EXPANDED, by connecting it via sealevel canal to the Caspian and Black seas, thereby creating an impenetrable barrier against the turks, from the Urals to the mega-medditerranean.
SCYTHIA WILL RISE AGAIN!!!
>>991798
You mean "Aryans", not "Indoeuropeans". "Indoeuropean" is a linguonym, "Aryan" is a racionym/culturonym.
>>994479
Fuck off Rei
>>994545
Not him, I just like how he phrased it. Very succinct, besides being true, obviously.
>>994479
Aryans are only half the Indo-Europeans (the Indo- half).
>>994574
You're a moron.
>>994588
Fuck off and learn about the subject before trying to discuss it.
>>994588
It was racial back then and it is racial now.
>>994600
So instead of calling the people who spoke indo-european, indo-europeans, you're butt blasted that they aren't called ayrans? Is there any more to it than that?
let alone taking rei seriously, muh cromagnids and neaderthals were the first Europeans, homo antecessor never existed etc.
>>994631
>"Aryan" was literally a self designation by Iranians and Indians.
Your point?
Indians, and Iranians are two different peoples that descend from the original Aryans.
>Europeans aren't descended from Aryans...
Nobody has claimed that here.
>Indo-European is purely a linguistic classification.
That's what I posted, idiot:
>>994479
>>991828
>as *umijaz or *jumijaz, in the latter case possibly deriving from PIE *ym̥yos, from the root yem "twin"
And the Latvian twingod, the one that represents all things dual, is called Jumis.
>>994714
Don't forget IANUS
>>994747
Check out Indo-European Poetry and Myth by M.L. West
There should be a pdf on the first page of google
>>991798
The indo-europeans where probably r1a haplotype group, so must likely the northern eastern European steppe.
>>991952
Yamna are too old to be considered the same people as the Indo europeans, the Kurgan hypothesis is bullshit. It's completely made up by western eurofags who can't handle the fact that they were conquered by the steppe peoples.
>>994807
>Aryans
>Steppe peoples
...
>>994807
What are you talking about? The Kurgan hypothesis is the steppe hypothesis.
>>994818
We were the original nomad horde baby
>>994818
Yes they were steppe peoples that brought the chariot and the horse into Europe.
R1b's were an older population, that moved into Europe during the mesolithic/neolithic. The Indo-European conquest happened much later. Haplotype tests confirm that these came from central Asia into Europe.
>Haplogroup R1a was found in the remains of the Corded Ware culture[2][3] and Urnfield culture;[4] as well as the burial of the remains of the Andronovo culture,[5] the Pazyryk culture,[6] Tagar culture[7] and Tashtyk culture,[7] the inhabitants of ancient Tanais,[8] in the Tarim mummies,[9] the aristocracy Xiongnu.[10]
>>994714
there was those two roman twins, hector and pollux, then there is Gemini, the twins, the pronunciation of ye and je sometime turn cognate in languages with a common root of PIE and can be interchangeable like 'ha' and its range (ha, hi, hu, hey, ho) and 'sa' (sa, si, su, say, so) sounds in avestan and sanskrit respectively.
Ancient Iranians called indians the Hindu, because they called Indus as Hindush, hindus or ancient indians called the river Sindhu and still call it sindhu, and its tributaries are colelctively knowns as sapta-sindhu the Seven Heads of Sindhu.
So the example as follows is also interesting: Ahura of the Zoroastrian becomes Asura in Sanskrit. Ahura Mazda was the God of Zoroastrianism, Asura is what a demon is called in hinduism.
>>994869
I do think that Aryans were nomadic in the beginning, and civilization eventually spread to them as they started invasions/migrations/assimilation of existing farming cultures and they created cultural syncretism, a few that have survived till now.
>>994767
Thanks broski!
>>994869
The distinction you make is pseudo-scientific and in fact the term "Turanic" does not exist in mainstream literature.
There were one people, genetically. Genome tests on ancient graves confirm this. But culturally they differed from one another.
For example the Beaker culture were aggressive expansionists, while the Yanma were more agricultural. The old wave , was conquered by the new nomadic wave. In fact it has always been the historical case that a people like the Indo-Europeans who were nomadic pastoralists , conquer more isolated agricultural people who are used to peace.
I think this is fundamentally related to the topic, but how do Basques manage to be autosomally a good representation of old Europe(i.e Neolithic Europe) and at the same time be full of R1b? Founder effect or something?
>>994869
>Early Aryans were sedentary, not pastoral, didn't livee in the steppes
God, educate yourself you hominid.
>>991798
WE WAZ SLAVS AN SHEIT
>>994906
So, you call the distinction between Turanian, and Aryan, "pseudoscientific", which is virtually the same as invalid, and on what basis? No basis other than your own ignorant preconceptions.
You disregard the distinction between Turanian, and Aryan, while at the same conflating both Turanian, and Aryan, for no apparent reason either.
Your post just makes no sense.
>>994914
Nice argument, budddie
>>994892
>I do think that Aryans were nomadic in the beginning
...
And why do you think that?
>>994908
because the Indo-Europeans were r1a, and the old europeans were r1b , there is literally no other explanation.
I myself was completely confused over such gaps in the theory of "indo-European migration.
In fact the total migration we are presented with might even be a total myth, or construct. And that common cultural elements among Europeans came through cultural diffusion and small scale migration. The idea that Indo-Europeans came and bred the local Europeans out of the genetic pool is preposterous. But there is so much ideological agenda weighting on this issue, that any research into it pretty much clouded by ideology.
>>994931
Even a quick wikipedia search will show that the early Aryans were in fact nomadic, pastoral and from the steppes. This is like common knowledge.
>>994946
You're an intellectual invalid.
>>994957
You're a failed Zika virus-stricken abortion. Congrats on being wrong on everything.
>>994926
>So, you call the distinction between Turanian, and Aryan, "pseudoscientific", which is virtually the same as invalid, and on what basis? No basis other than your own ignorant preconceptions.
Because turkic languages are most probably interrelated with European ones and have a common ancestor.
I don't claim to be 100% right, but most indicators seem to point to that conclusion. The people that came from the Steppe, were all one people defined by the haplotype R, but were divided over the millenia, and moved over into Europe at different times.
>>994939
purely due to the historical evidence of how far their cultures spread. A fine example is the Mitanni superstrate within the Hittite Empire, the gods invoked in a treaty who included Indra, Varuna and Mithra all three are gods now associated with Hinduism and their names are found in the Rigveda as the primary of the 33 gods and finally there is Kikkulli the manual on training horses found in Mittani ruins has deep insights into rearing horses that can only be developed by a people who have had a long tradition and association with horses and it is a accepted fact that Horse rearing was first originating in central asia and its spread into various regions where indo aryan speaking populations settled and earned much of their legacy.
>>994980
1. You're conflating ethnology, and linguistics.
2. Haplogroups are not useful for determining racial, or sociocultural differences.
You have no argument.
>>994941
1. There is no R1b found in Europe before the bronze age.
2. The R1b in Europe is descended from the R1b found in the Yamna culture
>>994838
The Kurgan hypothesis neatly assumes that the group we call PIE were one people, and all moved into Europe at once, they were not all one people and did not migrate all at once.
After hanging out in eupedia for sometime, I realized that haplogroup fanatics don't know shit about anthropology or ethno-religious studies.
>>994941
I'm no expert but didn't R* originate in asia or something? As far as I know from the remains of west Europeans from the mesolithic and neolithic there doesn't seem to be traces of R1b.
>>995001
>There is no R1b found in Europe before the bronze age.
oh really?
>Lee et al. (May 2012) analysed the ancient DNA of human remains from the Late Neolithic Beaker culture site of Kromsdorf, Germany identifying two males as belonging to the Y haplogroup R1b.[14] Analysis of ancient Y DNA from the remains of populations derived from early Neolithic Central and North European Linear Pottery culture settlements have not yet found males belonging to haplogroup R1b.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1b#Origin_and_dispersal
The facts are there, it's up to you to accept them. Newer research even points to an Iberian origin of r1b.
>>995025
>Beaker culture
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaker_culture#Genetic_studies
>Haak et al. (2015) concluded that R1b was very likely spread into Europe from the Pontic-Caspian steppe after 3,000 BCE by the Yamna people, putative Proto-Indo-Europeans under the Kurgan hypothesis. The authors noticed a paucity of haplogroup R1b in European population samples predating the Bronze Age, with only one of the 70 individuals from Mesolithic and Neolithic Europe belonging to haplogroup R1 or any of its branches.
>The study also found, via autosomal analysis, that the majority of post-Neolithic populations in Europe, including their ancient samples taken from Beaker culture sites in central Europe, are the result of a three-way miscegenation process between the Yamnaya; Neolithic farmers; and western European hunter gatherers who were present in Europe since at least the Mesolithic.[103]
>Newer research even points to an Iberian origin of r1b.
Lol what new research? An Iberian origin hasn't been taken seriously in a decade.
>Turanians
We was pan-Asian overlords and shit
>>994714
Thanks for this! Ive been trying to explore PIE religion via lithuanian mythology. But was never able to find much jnfo. It seems there is a lot more arbout latvian old religion published.
http://piereligion.org/jumis.html
I found this site which is pretty cool
The wiki page on 'domestication of the horse' , and 'chariot' are also highly relevent to this thread.
>>994869
Holy shit its like youve never even heard of Scythians. Turks were just mongoloids that copied the nomadic cultural package of indoeuropeans. There are still descendents of scuthians in the caucasus speaking ossetion, And tajikistan speaking yaghnobi.
>>994807
Yamna is not too early to be PIE, they last from about 3000 to 2000 bc iric, which is about the time we start seeing hittite ans avestan and sanskrit. and ive never heard of europeans caring aif they have steppe ancestors. The contemporary Andronovo culture to their immediat3 east is clearly the forebearers of nomadic scythians and tocharians of the taklamakan region.
I am willing to accept that with an apparently spread out urheimeiturheimeit, their was considerable interaction with the Maykop culture of caucasus, and probly proto-finnougric and uralic peoples as well.
/PIE/ is such a comfy thread, Bh2ra:trs! thanks for the high quality of posting!
>>995484
>Holy shit its like youve never even heard of Scythians. Turks were just mongoloids that copied the nomadic cultural package of indoeuropeans. There are still descendents of scuthians in the caucasus speaking ossetion, And tajikistan speaking yaghnobi.
I don't see how this relates to, or negates what I posted...
>>995509
Ok ill spell it out, you troll. "Turanian" turks COPIED the horse nomadism of the "Aryan" scythians.
This is clearly attested in the historiacal records of romans, greeks, chinese, persians. Until about 500ad, steppe nomads where mostly indoeuropean.
The huns are considered prototurkic, but probly where a conflomerarion of mongoloid and indoeuropean elements. For example, the "white huns"/xiongnu/hephthalites are described by indian, chinese and persian sources as having caucasian features. Even today, the Uygurs have caucasian features, and genetics has confirmed they are at least 50% related to the tocharians that ruled the land before them.
The ethnigenesis of turkic/turan peoples is the recent westward expansion of mongolian populations onto a preexisting indoeuropean nomadic horse culture.
>>995555
That's quite a mess of conflations, and erroneous preconceptions.
Improve your selfawareness, and reading comprehension.
>>995576
Ah yes, and here comes the ignoring if your original incorrect statement, changing of the goalposts and ad hominems, and arrogant pseudointellectualism.
Ive seen this kind of argument from wilful ignorance before, usually by those such as turks refusing to acknowledge evidence of the armenian genocide.
So No, how about you educate yourself, or bother reading the claims and sources I and many others have given you? Or at least stop this bullshit about turanism in an indoeuropean thread?
Just accept it buddy, you and your turan nomads vs aryan agriculturalist theory was incorrect. This thread has provided many reasons and references as to why. You just refuse to acknowledge or look at them, so you can argue from ignorance.
But I am sure you will continue to cover your ears and say you cant hear us, as that is what you have done all throughout this thread.
Fine, Stay wilfully ignorant then if you must. Truth be told, I envy those for whim ignorance is bliss.
>>994869
turanians are the result of mongolid replacement of the indigenous peoples.
Gokturks were Mongolids of the far-east (Manchuria). thru genocide they replaced the indigenous Tocharians, Scythians, Parthans, Sogdians, Bactrians.
the Donghu, Shiwei were Mongolic and created the Xianbei.
the Xianbei created the Tan/Nirun.
The Tan created the Tūjué aka Gokturks.
All this time the Mongolids lived in the periphery of Scythaic civilization and learned/adopted the Scythian lifestyle and gradually advanced westwards until they replaced their Scythians/Tocharians mentors
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donghu_people
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xianbei
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiwei
Mongolid adoption of western technologies and replacement of the originators is nothing new...
history repeats
>>996629
Yep. Although, It wasnt always genocide. There was a lot of cultural and gene flow back and forth.
Hence the Uygurs still looking caucasian, and to some extent the kazakhs and turkmen (from what ive heard the kyrgyz are pretty mongoloid). By the time turkics got to Arya and Anatolia, the mongoloid element was too small to really make an impact. Azeris look just like the persians across the border from them, and Turks more or less like armenians or greeks or kurds.
Interestingly, the Avar khanate seems to have been a true confederation of indoeuropean and turkic tribes. It is said to have used protoslavic as a lingua franca in later years. I suspect this may have something to do with the polish claim that they were descended from sarmartians.
Other unusual scythian nomad type groups are: a group that invaded the caucasus in the 700s and forced the cimmerians into colchis and anatolia; the Alans, who later survived as the "Irons" and Ossetians, and the Jazyges who settled in hungary.
Never understood why Indians feel so insecure about a possible European origin of their ancestors. Especially considering that many of them use skin lightener.
>>996680
Because the Aryans came to India as conquerors and the caste system still preserves the memory of this conquest. Thus the Aryan ancestry of the ruling class is connected to the much later European imperialism and colonialism of India. Basically it gives the impression that Indians have always been ruled by Europeans and they don't want that because INDIA STRONK.
>>994807
Indo-European wasn't strictly R1a, there was also G2a and J2a.
>>996680
The aryans mixed so much with dravidians that the aryan element is almost entirely limited to language now desu. And even in that field, the dravidian retroflex consonants are ubiquitous in every indian language today.
It is a shitty meme that southern and northern indians look different. They pretty much all look the same now, just look at actresses from tolywood. and what slight degree of lightness there is in the north is more closely related to the persian and arab colonization that occured immediately prior to the european one.
Of course, none of the upper castes will never admit this, as it would psychologically destroy them, and their entire narrative of oppressing the dravidians and dalits.
>>996724
This, could 't have said it better myself
>>994807
>>996696
R1b1a2 is clearly IE--it's completely absent from the fairly extensive set of pre-Late Neolithic remains we've found in Europe. It looks like there's a split where R1a1a is associate with the "Satem" branches and R1b1a2 with the "Centum" languages.
G2a and J2 are present in Old Europe, however--most likely they came in with the spread of agriculture.
The Daeva Cult in the Gathas by Amir Ahmadi (p. 44):
>He proposed placing these seemingly parallel developments in a historical setting of socie-ethnic conficts between Vedic Indians and inchoate Iranians, where ethno-cultural differences become a vehicle for a socio-economic antagonism between the warlike nomadic Indians and the pacific sedentary Iranians. The reaction of the Iranian victims of the Indian cattle-raids is the demonizations of the latter’s gods, the devas.
>warlike nomadic Indians
>Indian cattle-raids
So much for Indians having always been peaceful and vegetarian.
The religion of the Vedas is as different from Hindusim as early Hebrew and Canaanite polytheism is from Christianity. That is because the character, no, the physical constitution, of the people drastically changed.
Any Hindus reading this? Can white people have the Rig Veda now that you only care about the Puranas and the Gita?
>>996753
Thanks. although it gives me little pleasure, knowing that to see the future of europe and america, one only has to look to the subcontinent.
Btw, the Nuristanis and related groups in afghanistan and pakistan have a religion that appears to be closer to ancient indo european religion than even the avestas and hinduism. These people do still have lighter hair and eyes occasionally. An ancient aryan people hidden in mountain valleys.
>>996888
>Nuristanis are first mentioned in the Rigveda
>Rigveda 7.18.7 says
Together came the Pakthas, the Bhalanas, the Alinas, the Sivas, the Visanins. Yet to the Trtsus came the Ārya's Comrade, through love of spoil and heroes' war, to lead them
>Ārya's Comrade
>love of spoil and heroes' war
I love the Rig Veda.
>>996908
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuristanis
Hindus confirmed not followers of the Vedas.
>>994862
Castor and Pollux, you mean
Hector was part of the trojan cycle
>>996908
I did not know they had been recorded that lomg ago. The Vedads seem pretty interesting.
The nuristani languages are a third branch of indo-iranian family, next to indoaryan and iranian branches.
The Kalash and Cho people in Pakistan speak dardic languages, which are in the indoaryan subbranch. However, they practice their ancient religion more, as they werent jihaded by afghans as they were on the british side if the durand line.
Indo-european ("white") history, in a nutshell:
>originated in Russia
>travel outwards
>create the Mesopotamian, Egyptian, Indian, Chinese, Persian, and South American civilisations
>get driven north west
>create the Greek city states
>get driven to Italy by mediterranean peoples
>create the Roman civilisation
>driven by Etruscans and others to Iraq again
>create Islamic golden age
>driven by arabs to Iberia
>driven to turkey
>driven to Italy by muslims
>renaissance
>driven to spain
>new world
>driven to france
>classicism
>driven to britain
>industrial revolution
>driven to the commonwealth by immigrants
>USA's century
They also domesticated cats while in the middle east.
>>997136
wat
>>997094
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalash_people#Religion
Kalash religion is similar to the religion that was practiced by Rigvedic aryans and shares many traits with Ancient Hinduism. Kalash have retained most of the Proto-Indo-Iranian religion (Indo-European religion). The Hindukush area shares many of the traits of Indo-Iranian myths, rituals, society, and echoes many aspects of Ṛigvedic, but hardly of post-Ṛigvedic religion.
one was universally revered as the Creator: the ancient Hindu god Yama Râja called imr'o in Kâmviri.[20][21] There is a creator god, appearing under various names, no longer as Father Heaven, but as lord of the nether world and of heaven: Imra (*Yama Rājan), Māra 'death' (Nuristani) [22] He (Yama rajan) is a creator deity called Dezau (ḍezáw) whose name is derived from Indo-European *dheig'h 'to form' (Kati Nuristani dez 'to create', CDIAL 14621); Dezauhe is also called by the Pashto term Khodai. There are a number of other deities, semi-gods and spirits. The Kalash pantheon is thus one of the last living representatives of Indo-European religion.
there is an Indra-like figure, often actually called Indr (N., K.) or Varendr (K., waræn, werín, *aparendra). As in the Veda, the rainbow is called after him. when it thunders, Indra is playing Polo. Indra appears, however, in various forms and modern 'disguises' Indra appears in various forms, such as Sajigor (Sajigōr), also called Shura Verin. Warén(dr-) or In Warīn is the mightiest and most dangerous god. Even the recently popular Balumain (baḷimaín, K.) has taken over some of Indra's features: he comes from the outside, riding on a horse. Balumain is a culture hero who taught how to celebrate the Kalash winter festival (Chaumos). He is connected with Tsyam, the mythological homeland of the Kalash. Indr has a demon-like counterpart, Jeṣṭan, who appears on earth as a dog; the gods (Devalog, Dewalók) are his enemies and throw stones at him, the shooting stars.[17]
>>991825
>>991827
Another god, Munjem Malik (munjem 'middle'; malék from Arab. malik 'king'), is the Lord of Middle Earth and killed, like the Indra, his father. Mahandeo (mahandéo, cf. the Nuristani Mon/Māndi), is the god of crops, and also the god of war and a negotiator with the highest deity.[17] Jestak (jéṣṭak, from *jyeṣṭhā, or *deṣṭrī?) is the goddess of domestic life, family and marriage. Her lodge is the women's house (Jeṣṭak Han). Dezalik (ḍizálik), the sister of "Dezau" is the goddess of childbirth, the hearth and of life force; she protects children and women. She is similar to the Kafiri Nirmali (Indo-Iranian *nirmalikā). She is also responsible for the Bashaleni lodge.
There also is a general pattern of belief in mountain fairies now often called by their Persian name, Peri, but still called Apsaras in the Rājataraṅgiṇī, Suchi (súči, now often called Peri), who help in hunting and killing enemies, and the Varōti, their violent male partners. They live in the high mountains, such as Tirich Mir, but in late autumn they descend to the mountain meadows. The Jach (j.ac.) are a separate category of female spirits of the soil or of special places, fields and mountain pastures.[17]
Noted linguist and Harvard professor Michael Witzel summarizes the Kalash religion with this description: "In myth it is notably the role of Indra, his rainbow and his eagle who is shot at, the killing of his father, the killing of the snake or of a demon with many heads, and the central myth of releasing the Sun from an enclosure. Ritual still is of IIr.type: Among the Kalash it is basically, though not always, temple-less, involving fire, sacred wood, three circumambulations, and the *hotṛ. Some features already have their Vedic, and no longer their Central Asian form (e.g. dragon > snake)".[22]
>>997183
Yep! For brotherhood and friendship among all indoeuropean nations,we should make /pie/ a regular happening!
>>997136
>aztecs and Chinese were both whites originally
U wot m8
>>996666
>There was a lot of cultural and gene flow back and forth.
one group invented the wheel, chariot, domesticated the horse...
the other group gets these inventions from the inventors, and then do away with the inventors.
today, the adopters thrive in the homeland of the vanished inventors.
cultural diffusion was the downfall of the Scythians. if they had the foresight like the Chinese, and kept their skills a trade-secret, much of the territory from Hungary to Manchuria, today, would have been Ossetian/Tocharian territory and the Mongolids would have remained reindeer herders somewhere in Yakutia.
>>994941
How can you explain the complete absence of r1b in europe prior to the bronze age?
>>995025
>newer research
Show me,faggot
>>998660
It's pretty hard to keep horses a secret desu senpai
>>998705
>sharing your advanced horsemanship skills with foreigners
>teaching them equestrianism
>giving them the saddle, stirrup, composite bow, wheel and countless other inventions...
>not just KHAN'ing them
if you don't khan, you will get khan'd
>>998735
The American Indians living in the Great Plains stole horses from Spanish settlers and in a generation they were living almost identically to the Horse-nomads of Central Asia.
>>995025
The other poster misspoke. Late Neolithic Beaker culture has been identified as IE for a long time, and finding R1b1a2a there is totally unsurprising. The remains from El Portalon that you're referring to are not in that sublineage and are't really relevant to the question.
This thread made me have faith in /his/ again.
Thanksguys, I'm reading on hittite horse training manuals right now and having a fucking blast.
>>997136
>>996680
indo-european languages are adopted by the descendants of incas, aztecs, mayans, australian aborigines, bantus
modern indians are simply adopters of a language group originating somewhere near the caspian.
modern europeans are also adopters of this language.
the people who originated this language were neither indian or european.
>>996971
Ah of course, my bad.
>>996868
>Any Hindus reading this? Can white people have the Rig Veda now that you only care about the Puranas and the Gita?
If you can read sanskrit, understand the mantra and hold the correct swara, master the truth and become a guru, sure, nothing is stopping you, indians dont own hinduism or the vedas, we simply follow it.
>>996809
>So much for Indians having always been peaceful and vegetarian.
That was never true, maybe during the IVC or the Grey ware Pottery culture, but by the BMAC indian subcontinent was being penetrated by nomadic indo-iranic tribes with their violent cultures and social mores.
>>994924
>scythians
>slavs
slavs are balto-slavic peoples whom migrated south from baltic areas to scythian territories.
the ossetians, yaghnobis are scythians
>>1000939
does this mean the jews in auschwitz should have loved hitler
>>1000909
>modern indians are simply adopters of a language group originating somewhere near the caspian.
the caste system has preserved indo-european genes in the highest castes, tho it's true that most Indians are ultimately Dravidian and post-Harrapan.
>modern europeans
Some are adopters, some are the children of a ruling indo-european ruling elite.
>the people who originated this language were neither indian or european.
No, but their culture went on to form the basis of both European and Indian civilisation. The commonalities even to this day outweigh the differences.
>>1001094
It would have been the best for their souls, yes.
>>998786
>hitite horse training.
Link?
>>1001296
He probably means this guy:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kikkuli
>>1001300
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kikkuli
Wow, that's very interesting, it only makes all the things we have forgoten around the ages all the more depressing tough, imagine if Greeks and romans developed that knowlagde for example.
>>1001139
>the caste system has preserved indo-european genes in the highest castes, tho it's true that most Indians are ultimately Dravidian and post-Harrapan.
All Indians have some proto indo european genes to some degrees, give me the study that connects those genes to the higher classes
>>1001139
>Some are adopters, some are the children of a ruling indo-european ruling elite.
Lol no, no one resembles the ancient Yamna culture 100% to this day, also considering the bronze age Greeks (Myceneans) noble classes already mixed so much with the native that they were ALL depicted with black hair and brownish skin shows clearly that those elites were absorbed by the native population rather quickly during the bronze age.
>>996868
>The religion of the Vedas is as different from Hindusim as early Hebrew and Canaanite polytheism is from Christianity.
horseshit
>>1001139
>
the caste system has preserved indo-european genes in the highest castes, tho it's true that most Indians are ultimately Dravidian and post-Harrapan.
Pure bullshi, the genetic difference between North Indian and South Indians is barely noticeable, pci related, there is even more gentic distance towards European groups, for instance, between North and Southern Italians (even if they're not in the map sadly).
>>1001440
For the record S.Italians should be slightly lower than Sardinians but shifted eastwards, so closer to other Europeans and N.Italians should be near the Spanish people.
>>1001414
indians are an australoid peoples and should be proud of their veddoid heritage
they do speak a non-australoid language and practice a non-australoid culture, thru cultural and linguistic diffusion of steppe horseman
much like native americans speak a IE language and practice IE culture, aka costa ricans speaking spanish etc
A R M E N I A
Yeah, Bronze Age Aryans were ruthless nomads, terrorizing everyone with their horses, chariots and bronze weapons, staging grand animal sacrifices and consecrating the land as the conquered it, hardly peace-loving Hindus.
See:
http://www.amazon.com/Indo-European-Sacred-Space-Vedic-Traditions/dp/0252029887
SALVE MITRA-VARVNA INDRAQUE NASATYAQUE
>>1001501
>
indians are an australoid peoples and should be proud of their veddoid heritage
Are you completely brain dead, look at this map of egentic distance between ethnicities:
>>1001440
They are much, much closer to Europeans and Arabs than they are to Australoids (in this case the Papuans are the closest to the Autraloids in the map).
>>1000909
>the people who originated this language were neither indian or european.
They were Eastern European.
>>1002123
Central Asian
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andronovo_culture
Related people to them are Ossetians and Yaghnobi
>>1002314
Andronovo was Proto-Indo-Iranian, not Proto-Indo-European
These were the Proto-Indo-Europeans
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamna_culture
>>1002123
According to the latest research they were roughly half east Euros, half Caucasian and with a sprinkle of western hunter-gatherer.
>>1000909
>the people who originated this language were neither indian or european.
Thats why they're called Proto-Indo(Indian Subcontinent)-European(Europe)
>>1001922
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veddoid
The Australoids are a race of people with wavy hair, spread over the whole of India, Burma and the islands of Southeast Asia. Their existence in the "Indus Valley Civilization" has been suggested. They are said by some to "form the bedrock of the people." They cultivated rice and vegetables, and made sugar from sugarcane. Their language has survived in the Kol or Munda (Mundari) in Eastern and Central India.
When will the indo-europeans unite again against the afro-asiatic menace?
>>1002374
>I'm a fucking retard who refuses to aknowledge actual scientific studies
I redirect you to this map:
>>1001420
Thinking that indians and Austroid people are the same is beyond retarded, autosomally Indians cluster much closer to Europeans, Arabs and people from the Caucasus, you can see that Papuans are extremely genetically isolated.
>>1001922
here is a nice chart for your autism
purple is australoid
sure, some indos got cucked by arabs, elamites, meds, mongols, scythians... but they are still veddoid
>>1002397
Australians are like 95% purple in your map while Indians only about 30%, saying they are the same is bullshit.
>>1002390
>thinks pic related is white
>being this retarded
>>1002409
check your autism m8
>>1002412
I've never said they're white you fucking retard, I said they are gentically closer to white people than to Australians.
Of course no one that descends mostly from people who lived in a tropical area is going to be white skinned.
Bedouins are genetically closer to Swedes than to Native South Americans despite being brown like them.
>>1002409
the veddoid self hate is strong in this one
>>1002421
Please kill yourself I've just shown you a map of autosmal DNA, it measures the genetical distance between populations, you can either accept it or continue ranting like an idiot about muh skin color that is determined by a few genes.
>But look at this dark Indian
So I guess dark brown eyed Swedes are genetically closer to Negroes than to other Swedes?
You know how retarded you sound?
>>1002439
I'm Italian.
>>1002445
makes perfect sense with all your psychotic shitposting
there is no point in educating this thick skulled retarded
>>1002445
>an italian named pajeet
sure thing pajeeto, i met plenty of ind-err italians like you
>>1002333
>steppe + horses = a big homeland
simultaneously, these same dudes bilocated on the other side of the steppe, thousands of miles away
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afanasevo_culture
basically all Yamna, Afanasevo, Andronovo, Bactria are just splitting steppe horse hairs
>>1002350
the gracile central asian steppe horseriders came to dominate over the existing native Dravids/Australoids in India and the native Upper-Paleolithic Cro-magnoids of Europe
>>1003132
>native cro magnon
Lol how retarded can you be, Europe was dominated by neolitich farmers from Hungary to Ireland before proto Indo-europeans came
>>1003344
archaeologists believe that the expansion of gracile Neolithic peoples from Asia (Near East) into Europe, replacing robust Upper-Paleolthics, marked the eclipse of Mesolithic culture, coincided with the introduction of Indo-European speakers from central Asia.
Analysis of modern Europeans' autosomal DNA also gives support to a large Cro-Magnon population displacement from the central Asian steppe into Europe
>>1003710
From Anatolia first, the central Asian Indo euros came some thousand years later
>>1004236
Not him, Cro-Magnons were the original modern humans inhabiting Europe from the paleolithic, the ones who arrived after the first human migration into the near east from Africa, this circa 40000 years ago.
From their remains as far as I know they seemed to be on average more robust than most modern Europeans, with elongated but also wide skulls.
"Cro-magnoid" denotes this robustness that can be still found in some Euros. I think nowadays it's mostly just a rough classification of some general types that can be found in Europe, like mediterranid, nordid, baltid, atlantid, dinarid, etc... and combinations. Not sure how precise this classification can be
>>1003825 is right about the chronology
>>1002376
KEK
A lot of bullshit and very strange kind of racial interest in thia thread desu
>>1004919
>>996868
Don't worry, some white people will survive in the mountain valleys of Switzerland and the Carpathians too.
>>992115
this is the most uneducated comment i have ever read on /his/
>>991798
I dont know if its just 1 guy or 2-3 guys but the ethno-centrism in this thread is off the fucking charts, it feels like i am reading an ancient version of /pol/
>>1004929
He looks like the JUST guy
>>1005099
good blogpost tumblr, liked, favoured and subscribed
>>1002412
DRAVIDIANS = ABOS
>>1005121
never been on tumblr my entire life and you are still /pol/ tier retard who buys into centrist psudeo-science from last century
>>1005213
great arguments buddy, tumblr would be proud
>>1005223
>crying tumblr boogeyman to someone who never been to tumblr to confirm thier retarded world views
>>1005242
keep the tears flowing buddy, if only those constituted an argument
>>1005213
Fuck off virgin.
Hows the comfiest thread on the chans going today?
Ive been reading about the Botai cukture of northern kazakhstan, about 3500bc.
The earliest known site of horse domestication. Its still unknown whether it was pie or protouralic or something else, but there have long been theories the two groups had regular interactions. I suspect they were sister cultures. , maybe even desecended from a proto proto language.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botai_culture
Also, did you guys know there was a study in 2014 that confirmed a northern australian tribe had about 15 of their genetics from a southern indian population? This was dated to a relatively recent intrusion, about 100 generations or 2000 years ago. Of course, very little further work has been done, as i5 would upset the current narrative of "aboriginal" tribes in australia. Being the first and only wave of colonisation before europeans.
>>1005261
lol, finially dropped the tumblr boogeyman?
>oh u mad bro? you crying broo???
so this is when a retard acts when their circle-jerk bubble is bursted, amusing really...
>>1005957
the ancient Uralic people were predominantly reindeer herders, hunters, and fishers. The Samoyeds, Lapps, Mansi, Khants, Enets are direct descendants of ancient Uralic people and all maintain direct reindeer-herding continuity with their ancestors.
ie: the Khantys' traditional occupations were fishery, taiga hunting and reindeer herding. They lived as trappers, thus gathering was of major importance, much like the rest of the original Uralics.
there is not much of an Uralic horse-culture continuity to add clarity to this theory.
there is a definite horse-culture continuity with Indo-Europeans lasting thousands of years (at least from 3,500 bc, if not earlier) and spanning various Indo-European groups (Andronovo, Yamna, Afanesevo, Bactria, Scythian).
>>1005957
>australoids related to veddoid indians
shhhh, you might cause that one italian pajeeto to burst a shit
>>1006165
what mongol overlords? you think of history as some kind of piss race?
you dont have shit to say so you make the most pathetic strawman argument i've ever had to deal with.
yeah sure i am a mongol supremacist! you got me there mr. aryan!
baka
>>1006348
wtf, baka? kek, wtf 4chan changing shit i wrote, what a fail lol
>>1005957
>Huge Veddoid migration to Australia as recently as 4000 years ago, if not earlier
>genetic study in India found similarities among Indian archaic populations and Aboriginal people, indicating a Southern migration route, with expanding populations from Southeast Asia migrating to Indonesia and Australia.
>Aboriginal genomes consist of up to 11% Indian DNA which is uniformly spread through Australia, indicating a substantial gene flow between Indian populations and Australia occurred around 4,230 years ago. Changes in tool technology, food processing and the Dingo appear in the archaeological record around this time, suggesting there may have been migration from India.[15][16]
http://www.journeytoforever.org/farm_library/price/price10.html
so much for the >muh genetic distance of Srinivasamulungaba PhD extraordinaire
>>991798
Pre flood iran
Post flood Caucasus
Post post flood from india to europe
>>1001808
because hindus never fought wars? india's history is full of wars between different kingdoms and clans
>>991798
I personally believe white people are transcendent star-children from one of Jupiter's moons.
>>997159
Indra is Thor, jestan the fenris Wolf?
Holy shit this is the most retarded thread i've seen in a while. A didn't know people like this existed. Indo-european fanfiction wtf
>>991846
Reductio ad Hitlerum is always association fallacy.
>>1006369
>Aboriginal genomes consist of up to 11% Indian DNA which is uniformly spread through Australia
Do you realize that it's Indian like migrants that spread it in Australia 4000 years ago?
Did you even read your article?
It's funny how dumb you /pol/tards caan get.
Even if Indians had 11% Abo admixture that wouldn't make them Abo, too bad it's Abos who have Indian admixture according to the article you posted.
Meanwhile North Africans do have Sub Saharian African admixture, about 21% on average, but you /pol/tards don't call them "niggers", you consider them white or "caucasoid" because then you would have to explain how they came up with civilizations on their own such as Egypt and other North African civilizations.
Even a lot of Arab groups have around 16-18% Sub Saharian blood, too bad you can't apply any Indo European fantasy to them.
>>992045
Amazing. Same level as Dirac mathematically predicting the positron.
>>1006908
Thats a lotta strawmanning, for a hired shill.
> Implying /pol/ is one person
>implying /pol/ even cares about /his/
Do you have anything useful to contribute to this discussion about proto-indoeuropeans?
>>1007144
Don't see any discussion though you're just sharing your wet dreams and fantasies with eachother
>>1007164
Then perhaps your time would be better spent on reddit, or taking your wife's son to a black lives matter rally?
>>1005042
Would it be fair to say that you cant even right now? Does this mean you are not interested in my thoughts on how to Make Anatolia Hittite Again*?
*also luwian and lycian and utartan
>>991825
>yo Yima, did I tell you already to make it long as a riding-ground on every side of the square? Cause that's really importante bro
>*sigh* Yes, Zor. Yes you did.
>>991798
I once read a hypothesis of hiw PIE people diverged from Proto Semitic and Hamitic people and that their homeland was somewhere around the Caucasus and how the first migrantes North and East and the latter South and Southwest. I remember it making a lot of sense, considering the phenotypical similarities between these groups and some paralelisms between the PEI languages and the Proto Afro-Asiatic language.
>>1005099
You belong on reddit
>>1007529
I think similarities between semetic and ie languages are due to admixture and not common origin
>>1006908
white people think they are the original PIE. what they dont realise is Indians had an Arian caste system before white people even existed!!! those cave dwelling neanderthals were eating rats while Indians were building Arian empires.
them british white boys thought that they can conquer India, but we showed them who is at the top of the caste system.
now they come back claiming Indians are Australians. not even realizing how far apart India and Australia are!!! just look on the map! India is not event connected by land. once you show them how close Indians are genetically to caucausoids with extensive research by leading Indian scientists, they pull out psuedo-science garbage about how Indians superficially look like Papuans or that we share alot of dna with Australians.
but let me tell you- looks can be decieving. we may have the same skin color as Papuans but that is as far as it goes. genetically indians are caucasoids!
Indians are not related to Australoids.
case closed
inb4 psuedo scientific atleast 50% Indian dna is Australoid
inb4 psuedo scientific prehistoric coastal migration from India to Australia
inb4 psuedo scientific atleast 12% of Australians have Indian dna
argue with facts. not psuedo science of the last century
>>1007529
>some paralelisms between the PEI languages and the Proto Afro-Asiatic language.
Such as?
>>1007993
Lol
>>1007993
poltards claim to fame is appropriating our history. they know that if they acknowledge that India is Caucasian they loose legitimacy over Europe. ie Brahmin domination over Europe and history shows that they can not handle competition.
they will disinform and distance us from our land as far as possible by claiming we are Veddoids.
>>991986
Reeeeeeeee, eternal remember that indoeuropeans where few and only in the north of india, the rest being more related to abos
>>1007315
>literally /pol/ with dates
You were quick to jump to that cuckold thing, it's like it was reflexive.
>>1008195
Lol
>>991798
The plains in eastern Ukraine. The info we have from ancient genomes confirms the Kurgan hypothesis.
>>1001440
You're a fucking moron. Relative to the rest of the whole fucking species, the distance between N. and S. Indians is small. But that's just you zooming out. Things are different once you focus on the Indian and neighbouring populations only. Educate yourself shithead.
>>1001440
Also, your fucking image doesn't even have any Indian data. You are one massive retard.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3156952/
>>1008876
It has Indian ethnicities in it, you're the massive retard here.
>>1007993
"White" has nothing to do with PIE.
PIE were near asiatic steppe nomads with green eyes, while the hunter gatherer Europeans were swarthy skinned with blue-eyes.
melanin and the color of eyes comes about through environmental conditions over a period of thousands of years, it has nothing to do with genetic origin. That's why race is a social construct, color had nothing to do with it until the 18th century.
>>1008853
Since you, a fucking tool, implied that the upper classes were pure native Indo-Europeans fresh from Ukraine and that, "The majority of Indians are asutraloid abos" or some bullshit like I've proven you wrong, no need to get all butthurt.
Don't do any backpedaling by denying that you stated that, because the map I psoted clearly shwos how distant Indians are from papuans, that while not abbos, they're still pretty much the closest ethnicity alive to them.
What a complete idiot.
>>994807
>be irish
>realize im related to Bashkirs
>>996888
Is Nuristani religion even still practiced? I thought it was Islamicized 100% in the early 1900s
>>994807
>haplotype group
What is this phrase mean? Was one of mine and one of someone else ancestor at 100 generation depth was same person? At this depth we both have thousand of thousand ancestors, so this is do not important.
>>1007529
Trigger warning plz
>>1006348
that is right gwailo. mongoloid expansion and occupation of historic bukgwai land is a myth. the scythahoax was invented by gwailo to extort the innocent celestial race out of their celestial power.
mongoloids have always peaceful and innocent.
>>1008935
>show a ms paint pictograph of indian genetic distance being "far" from australoids
>abos literally having indian dna from recent coastal migration of indians 4000 yrs ago
>indians sharing australoid dna from prehistoric 30,000rs+ veddoid coastal migration
>b-but the distance is just too far! it is impossible. we cant possibly be Veddoid. it is just not true!
>my mommy always told me i was brahmin aryan
>>1008007
Not him but I found this
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Semitic_languages
>>1006742
Are you?
>>1007529
>diverged from Proto Semitic and Hamitic
>muh three sons of Noah
Christcuck detected.
>>1002333
So would Andronovo peoples still be technically Indo-Europeans?
>>1009473
>show a ms paint pictograph of indian genetic distance being "far" from australoids
What a fucking little retard you are, you're too lazy to even google it back so it's on "ms paint" xD, if you want to shitpost stay on /pol/ or on /int/, please.
>abos literally having indian dna from recent coastal migration of indians 4000 yrs ago
That's what I say you fucking retard, somepeople from the middle east migrated back into Ethiopia and mixed with Sub Saharian Africans, that doesn't make them niggers, you utter retard.
>my mommy always told me i was brahmin aryan
Too bad I'm Italian and your squallid "banter" doesn't affect me at all.
>>1009128
Nuristan is Taliban & Al Qaeda territory, from what i've heard. haven't heard of ISIS being there. Nangarhar province is ISIS (though the Taliban is trying to get them out of there)
Daily reminder the "Great" Indo-European race hated each other's guts and no such identity uniting these people existed.
Also Haploshit and DNA never mattered in identity formation as nobody walked around with electron microscopes.
Also
>Urheimat
>Literally using Nazi science terms seriously.
This thread.
>>1010223
>abloo bloo muh nazies
thanks for the great contribution, fuck outta here now
>>1010265
ARE
>>1010329
YOU
>>1010223
it's an actual term though, fuck off false flag poltard.
>>1010344
KIDDING ME???
>>1010362
>Literally Hitler
>Like actual, 100% one-to-one correspondence
As a matter of fact I do.
why are people so desperate to claim the Rig Veda as theirs? it doesn't seem like a particularly enlightened book:
https://truthabouthinduism.wordpress.com/2014/05/15/killing-infidels-in-vedas/
>>1010629
It's not enlightened at all. It's just old.
>>1010629
kinda reminds me of the Quran, which is funny because that particular article was written by Muslims (as well as the other articles on that site)
>>1010223
>Urheimat
>Nazi term
You are factually retarded
>>1005957
I just want scientists to lose all ethics and kidnap some North Sentinel Islanders to see who the fuck they are. Maybe it could shed some light on the whole Southern Indian/Australoid relation.
>>1010629
>wow
>so peaceful
>much non-violence
>>1010629
lol most of that shit there is overblown and misintepreted to follow a set argument
Rig-Veda: 9.13.9 O Pavamamas, driving off the godless, looking on the light, / Sit in the place of sacrifice.
Rig-Veda: 7.6.3The foolish, faithless, rudely-speaking niggards, without belief or sacrifice or worship,- / Far far sway hath Agni chased those Dasytis, and, in the cast, hath turned the godless westward.
This dude is using examples that are counter to the way that the Vedas are meant to be read "Yatha Vachanam Tatha vachanikam" Read it as it is without adding anything or subtracting anything, translations are notorious for misinterpreting connotations of certain words like Aryan being turned into the whole world is to be ennobled like in the works of Messrs, Wilson and Griffith .
Also the site is made by a muslim. What a surprise...
>>1010994
I figured as much. part of my reason for sharing it was to get some other opinions on it. I'm not familiar with Vedic scripture.
>>1011022
yea Vedas are extremely hard to get into, I only have a minimal grasp of it due to exposure to it when I was younger, I always take it with a grain of salt but the concept of indo aryan migrations are pretty much evident within the texts.
The Dasas may or not may not have been dravidians because the Rigvedic battles between Indra and Vrtra the Dragon of Drought is extremely interesting in a historical context. I say this because of a peculiar tale in the Rig-Veda 1.124-154 called the Slaying of Vritra.
So basically Vritra had collected all the waters from the 'world' and stored it in 99 fortresses and Indra slew Vritra a Brahmin according to Vishnu and Rig-Veda 6.61 states that his killing had cursed Indra due to his sin of Brahmanahatya (Brahmin-slaying).
Anyway the point is that this parable gives insights into the misconception of the Indo Aryan tribes that came down into the IVC territories where they stumbled upon massive fortress like cities with large dams that stored water for year round irrigation
Now the indus valley civilization is known to have shrunk in size and power by the mid of the first millenium BC, around the same time as the Aryan migrations.
The drying up of the Indus-Sarswat river system or the Ghaggar Hakra River is the primary reasoning for the IVC collapse and latter eastward cultural movement like the greyware pottery and the Cemetary H culture(I think not sure) has indications of having originated in the Indus Valley due to the style of their pottery and other archaeological finds.
Widespread drought in the area led to more and more water needed for the cities to function and operate, so the dams of the existing cities were mostly full, now these cities were pretty much surrounded by desert, so in the Aryan eyes this seemed like the cities were hoarding water and Indra led the Aryans to topple these 'forts' and 'free the waters'
This killed the last IVC cities.
Pontic steppe
How did ancient people understand kinship with other related races? Like Darius the Great proclaimed himself of the "Iranian race, of the Aryan people" and knew that besides the Persians and Medes other Iranics like the Scythians were Aryans too.
How did he know that? Related languages on an instinctual level? Similar cultural norms and customs alongside appearance and religious practices?
>>1010692
Would it be more or less ethically dubious to tranquilizer dart them from helicopters then take their blood before they woke up? What about if we gave them some sweet cargo in return?
Also, I think the correct scientific term for these guys, and the aboriginal peoples in phillipines , thailand and the proposed "Barrinean" group of pygmy aboriginals, is , quite literally, "negritos"
Negritos.
It has a nice sound to it, huh? Just rolls off the tongue...
I wonder how much butthurt the sjws on thris thread are going to have when they hear this word for the first time. I predict it will be completely glorious. And the best part is, this is literally the correct and only term for these people., who were possibly the first human inhabitants of much of asia and australia.
NEGRITOS
>>1011562
>How did ancient people understand kinship with other related races?
I dont think they thought in that way, only common language, ancestors, familial ties and religion were the main identifiers, more civilized a people, the more it narrows to language and faith and ancestral and familial ties becomes tied in with 'divine grace' of a people and words like 'aryan' are thrown around. Its a fact that civilizations become exclusive because their tiered society is hard to penetrate without violence.
>>1010203
These Holocene immigrants to Australia (Carpentarians) were Veddoid, and spoke a language related to the parent Indian Vedda language, not Dravidian. They might have been driven from India toward Australia by the Dravidian-speaking Elamites of the Indus Valley Civilization pushing further south into the Indian peninsula. The Veddoid natives of India experienced Dravidification by adopting the language of the Elamites.
mitochondrial DNA (which is maternally inherited) studies indicated that a vast number of Indian mtDNA lineages cluster with the southeast Asians (Papuans), indicative of the Australoid-Veddoid substratum.
Modern studies indicate that the major mtDNA lineages in India belong to the typically Australoid M haplogroup, whose Indian variety (T at np16223) probably originated around 48000 +/- 1500 years before present (i.e. about 46000 BC), and more than 98% of the M individuals carry this variety. This haplogroup is most common in the native population (for example, 96.7% amongst the Kotas of the South)
>Among its lineages M2 is the most diverse and occurs in significantly higher frequency among the Austro-asiatic tribals. The M3 (frequent among Dravidian tribals), M4, and M5 are also found in significant numbers.
See http://www.genome.org/cgi/content/full/13/10/2277/FIG4 for relations between these.
http://www.genome.org/cgi/content/full/13/10/2277/FIG1
http://www.genome.org/cgi/content/full/13/10/2277/FIG2
