Tell me about the Sumerians. I'm obsessed with the early history of Mesopotamia
They lived in Sumer
And uh, built houses of mud
>>866679
But could you imagine? Their civilization existed 5,000 years ago! What was their society like? what was an average daily life for a commoner? All their dreams and aspirations.
I wonder if they ever thought that one day humans would master flight, or build cars, or rockets. I wonder if they had knowledge that we today have lost.
>>866656
well, they invented writing
were good at maths, made some remarkable buildings and had rich cultural influence over the middle east
some come to say they lived in the first golden age of humanity
then climate changed and nomads arrived, the rest is literally history - pun intended
One thing I find really interesting about this civilization is the comparatively wide-range of roles women held.
Many women were wives, cooks, weavers, and fulfilled other household duties. However, you also had women acting in what were considered to be very important religious roles such as High Priestess.
Rarely seen, but still possible, there were female rulers. For instance, Enheduanna, an ancient priestess and princess.
>>866679
Yes, and the wealthy would often live in two-story homes with U-shaped gardens. These gardens were valuable due to the generally poor ventilation found throughout the mud and reed homes.
>>866763
>One thing I find really interesting about this civilization is the comparatively wide-range of roles women held
>>866940
Shouldent you go back to /r9k/ and make dank memes son?
>>866656
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUcTsFe1PVs
Sumerian seems like a cool language.
>>866656
The Kings of Ur loved writing diss raps to live down the ages.
>A praise poem of King Shulgi of Urim: translation
>http://etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/section2/tr24202.htm
"I am a king, offspring begotten by a king and borne by a queen. I, Culgi the noble, have been blessed with a favourable destiny right from the womb. When I was small, I was at the academy, where I learned the scribal art from the tablets of Sumer and Akkad. None of the nobles could write on clay as I could. There where people regularly went for tutelage in the scribal art, I qualified fully in subtraction, addition, reckoning and accounting. The fair Nanibgal, Nisaba, provided me amply with knowledge and comprehension. I am an experienced scribe who does not neglect a thing."
"When I sprang up, muscular as a young lion, galloping like a spirited ass at full gallop, the favour of An brought me joy; to my delight Enlil spoke favourably about me, and they gave me the sceptre because of my righteousness. I place my foot on the neck of the foreign lands; the fame of my weapons is established as far as the south, and my victory is established in the highlands. When I set off for battle and strife to a place that Enlil has commanded me, I go ahead of the main body of my troops and I clear the terrain for my scouts. I have a positive passion for weapons. Not only do I carry lance and spear, I also know how to handle slingstones with a sling. The clay bullets, the treacherous pellets that I shoot, fly around like a violent rainstorm. In my rage I do not let them miss."
"CHORUS: Let me boast of what I have done. The fame of my power is spread far and wide. My wisdom is full of subtlety. Do not my achievements surpass all qualifications?"
>>866707
they were not paid in money, but in grain and beer. nearly all trade was organized by the government that was also the church, but apparently there also was a group of rich merchants, but we dont know much about them. first they all lived in separate city states fighting each other, then an empire, then city states again, empire, city states, empire. it was kind of an unstable time. they spoke sumerian, which is not related to any language known today. their language, after it died out, was used as the language for science and religion, much like latin in the middle ages. they lived closely together with the akkadians and it is believed that nearly all people of that time spoke both languages. they believed that humans were created by the gods to do their dirty work and believed that all cities were actually ruled by their respective gods an that the kings were merely governors. they had a lot of specialization of labor, including overseers, juwelry makers and many kinds of priests. they traded with people as far away as the indus valley and bahrain. since there are nearly no natural ressources where they lived, they prided themselves with making trade with those far away countries possible. they wrote lots of hymns and poems and also had schools for the scribes. any more questions?
you can find lots of easily accessible information and a number of images of their art at sumerianshakespeare.com. the guy is not in academics but his website is one of the most easily understandable ressources out there for the sumerians.
>>866656
they had a goddess of science, nisaba.
check mate, fedoras
>>867529
>Goddess of writing and learning
>science
wew lad
>>867542
>gods can only have two aspects
>writing and learning is not related to science
>>867547
>writing and learning is not related to science
It is, but it isn't science. Science came to be in the 1600s with Isaac Newton, and the Enlightenment that followed, not in 2000 B.C.
Did the Sumerians turn their farming lands into infertile salt deserts through irrigation or did that not happen till later?
>>867586
it happened over the span of 4000 years of constant agriculture and warfare
>>867586
it happened over centuries if not millennia, I would assume
>>866656
If you're obsessed about it, you're the one who should tell us about them.
>>867654
The Sumerians were the most extraordinary people who ever lived on the face of the earth. They seemed to come from out of nowhere, and they single-handedly invented civilization when most of the rest of the world was still living in the Stone Age. What’s more, they did it thousands of years before anyone else. In regard to the Sumerians, you will need to revise your concept of ancient in comparison to the "ancient" Greeks, Romans, and Egyptians. The Sumerian civilization was already ancient when it ended in 2004 B.C., twenty centuries before Julius Caesar, sixteen centuries before Socrates, and seven centuries before Tutankhamen.
>>867654
At the dawn of history, the Egyptians were the only people with a civilization comparable to that of the Sumerians (although the Sumerian civilization was much older). There has been some debate on whether they created their civilizations independently or if they cooperated with each other. The historic record seems to indicate that they built their civilizations independently. There is no mention of the Egyptians in the Sumerian archives, or vice-versa, and there is no direct evidence that they had a noticeable influence on one another, except for their propensity to build giant pyramids and ziggurats. Although on a modern map they appear to be quite close, they seemed to have been completely unaware of each other’s existence. Back then, the world was a much larger place.
>>867654
What’s so remarkable about the Sumerians’ invention of civilization is they did it with so few natural resources. Like the Egyptians, the Sumerians did not have a lot of timber; so it’s somewhat surprising that the world’s first civilizations should arise where there isn't a plentiful supply of wood, which could be used for fuel, the construction of houses, and for many of the utilitarian items needed in daily life. Unlike the Egyptians, however, the Sumerians did not have a lot of stone (imagine Egyptian civilization without its endless supply of stone). Neither did the Sumerians have much mineral wealth. The only thing they had in abundance was mud, but with that mud they built a great civilization. For with that mud they built towering ziggurats, and on that mud they invented writing.
>>867654
Examples of Sumerian technological inventions include the wheel, copper, bronze, the arch, sailboats, lunar calendars, sundials, saws, chisels, hammers, rivets, sickles, hoes, glue (bitumen), swords and scabbards, harnesses, armor, musical instruments (the lyre and harp), chariots, the kiln, sun-dried and kiln-fired bricks (mixed with straw to give them greater strength), the pottery wheel, printing, plows, metal cooking pots, and (last but not least) beer. There are probably numerous other items that the Sumerians invented for which they haven’t received proper credit. Basically anything that the Sumerians used, which had not already been invented in the Stone Age, they had to invent for themselves.
>>867654
They also invented civilization in the literal sense of the word. “Civilization” is derived from the Roman word civitas, meaning “city”. The first large cities in the world were Sumerian. One Sumerian tablet, written with a kind of worldly discontent, speaks of "the city, where the tumult of man is." In one of the first cities of the world, someone was already complaining about the hustle and bustle of city life.
The Sumerians also invented the more fundamental aspects of civilization: writing, arithmetic, geometry, monumental architecture, irrigation systems and large scale farming (mono-crops), sewage systems, schools, dictionaries, literature, realistic human portraiture, business accounting, the division of labor, and professional armies.
>>867654
The Sumerian achievements in mathematics are particularly impressive considering the fact that they used the cumbersome sexagesimal number system, based on the number 60, rather than the simpler decimal system (base 10) that we use today. Sumerian mathematics is why we still divide a circle into 360 degrees.
>>866707
Can't say it would have been great. There's a point at which the average man had a nice common life and I think that started around the 60s.
>>867654
The necessity of having to irrigate large tracts of non-arable land seems to be what first compelled the Sumerians to invent their modern society. This required a division of labor under the direction of a central authority (government). It also necessitated a means to pay for the project (taxation, i.e., “donations” of grain, sheep, cattle, dry goods, etc.) and a method to record these payments, which required the invention of writing. The land had to be allotted to different citizens, the water rights managed, and the surplus food distributed to the people.
>>867654
Once a large labor force was mobilized, construction on a monumental scale soon followed (such as palaces, great temples, and city walls), along with the manufacture of the other necessities of civilization (tools, clothing, weapons, luxury goods, artistic works, and the like). The earliest administrative systems were centered at the temples, each ruled by a high priest. Later, when the city-states became more powerful and competitive, the government was controlled by a king (lugal, meaning “man-great”) who could also command large armies.
>>867654
Sumerian civilization arose in the fertile region of Mesopotamia between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers in the fifth millennium B.C. (Mesopotamia is a Greek name meaning “between the rivers”). Because the Sumerians seemed to have appeared so suddenly on the scene, and because their language is unrelated to the other languages of the region (or to any other language in the world, then or now), it was originally believed that they were foreign invaders who subjugated the indigenous people already living there. This, however, seems unlikely. It was very difficult for conquerors to impose their language on a native people, and it’s doubtful that the Sumerians could have lasted for thousands of years, through every kind of vicissitude, if they had forced their civilization on an unwilling population.
>>867654
The Sumerians were probably the first nomadic hunters that ventured into this fertile region, who later decided to settle there and become farmers. No one knows where they came from. Theories range from India, Caucasia, Hungary, Africa, Turkistan, Tibet (?!), you name it. After years of academic debate, no definitive conclusion has been reached. However, it seems the Sumerians were distinct from the Semitic neighbors that surrounded them (the Akkadians, Elamites (Iranians), Gutians, Hamazi, etc.). It's highly improbable that the Sumerians could be ethnically the same as their neighbors and yet speak a language that is completely different. Not only was their language different, but their statues and portraits suggest the Sumerians were Caucasians, who originated from the area around the Caspian Sea. The Semites, on the other hand, originated from the Arab Peninsula. Remarkably, the Sumerians were later able to maintain their ethno-cultural identity during two centuries of Akkadian domination (2350 – 2150 B.C.)after they were conquered by Sargon the Great. During that time it would have been so easy for the Sumerians to be assimilated, to “blend back in”, if they were like their neighbors. Instead, they regained their independence and began the Neo-Sumerian Revival, the ultimate expression of Sumerian civilization
>>867654
At first there was very little conflict between the Sumerian city-states. As they became larger and more powerful, their rivalry intensified and they often resorted to civil war to settle their differences. Most of the wars were fought for territory and the control of water rights. The most famous conflict involved the cities of Umma and Lagash in a contest for possession of the Guedena, the fertile plain that lay between them. This conflict lasted for many generations. The many civil wars fought between the different city-states, too numerous to recount here, make Sumerian history similar to the history of the rest of the world.
>>867654
Not only did the Sumerians have to contend with each other, they also had to deal with the Akkadians. Akkad was the region located northwest of Sumer. The histories of Sumer and Akkad are inextricably tied together. The relationship was sometimes symbiotic, sometimes bloody. They spoke different languages, but through the centuries developed a kind of bilingualism, using the same (Sumerian) sign system and exchanging many "loan words" between them. They shared many cultural and religious values, and they benefited from their mutual trade. At other times they were locked in bloody combat, each seeking domination and control of the other. The “King of Kish”, named for a city in Akkad, became the traditional title of any king who ruled both Sumer and Akkad. The title meant "The King of Kings", and it was claimed by many Sumerians and Akkadians during their long history together. In the words of The King List, a Babylonian record of the dynasties of the region, “the kingship was taken” from Kish, then returned to Kish many different times (the kingship could also be carried to a foreign land after an invasion). Fortunately, the Sumerians and the Akkadians never waged “total war” against each other. They never tried to destroy each other in wars of extermination, or to enslave the populations. Instead, the losing side simply became a vassal state of the winning side. The losers also had to pay taxes (tribute) to the victors. Sometimes the Akkadians were in the ascendency, sometimes the Sumerians. Thus their history continued for hundreds of years.
>>867654
Not only did Sumer and Akkad have to contend with each other, they also had to deal with the Gutians and the Elamites, their foreign enemies to the north and northeast. The Gutians were nomadic tribesmen from the Zagros Mountains. They were barbarian warriors who did not want to govern an empire; they were far more interested in looting and sacking cities. The Elamites were a bit more civilized (though still barbarians in the eyes of the Sumerians) who originated in the area now known as Iran. They often conquered parts of Sumer and Akkad, and they would later be instrumental in the final destruction of Sumerian civilization. The countless wars in this region, between the Sumerians, Akkadians, Gutians, and Elamites, along with the Hamazi and others, prompted the writer of The King List to ask, “Then who was the king? Who was not the king?"
>>866707
>I wonder if they ever thought that one day humans would master flight, or build cars, or rockets.
No
>I wonder if they had knowledge that we today have lost.
No
>>867654
In 2350 B.C. the Sumerians were conquered by Sargon the Great, the Akkadian king who went on to conquer all of Mesopotamia. He defeated the united armies of Sumer in two pitched battles and captured Lugalzagesi, the Sumerian king who had united (or conquered) all of Sumer and earned the title of “King of Kish”. Sargon brought the captured Lugalzagesi back to the capital in a neck stock. The Akkadians would continue to rule Sumer for the next two centuries. Though Sumer was now a vassal state, it was not treated with undue severity because the Akkadians and Sumerians shared many of the same cultural and religious values. For instance, although the Akkadian language had become the lingua franca of Mesopotamia, it was written with the Sumerian sign system. Nonetheless, the Sumerians were no longer in control of their own destiny. Two hundred years is a long time to be a subject nation (about as long as America is old) so it's somewhat surprising that the Sumerians never lost their core identity, their sense of self.
>>867654
In 2150 B.C. the Akkadian Empire was destroyed by the Gutians, who also conquered many parts of Sumer. The Sumerians rose up in rebellion under the leadership of Utu-hengal, the king whose city of Uruk was also to be destroyed by the Gutians. Thus the Sumerians’ desire for independence, which had been smoldering beneath the surface for 200 years, was again rekindled. Utu-hengal defeated the Gutians and captured their king, Tirigan. Utu-hengal died seven years later (under mysterious circumstances). The Sumerian battle standard was then passed to Ur-Namma, the king of Ur. He went on to gain more victories against the Gutians. He also united the Sumerian cities into a single nation and he later reconquered Akkad. So once again the nations were united, except this time the roles were reversed; now the Sumerians were the rulers and the Akkadians were the vassals. Like a phoenix, Sumer had risen from the ashes. Now began the Neo-Sumerian Revival, the apex of Sumerian civilization.
>>867654
The most important kings of the Neo-Sumerian Revival were Gudea, Ur-Namma, and his son Shulgi. The histories of Gudea and Ur-Namma are given elsewhere on this website. Shulgi began his reign with a punitive expedition against Gutium after his father was killed in combat in yet another battle with the Gutians. For the next twenty years he reigned in relative peace. At some point during his reign he stopped calling himself “The King of Sumer and Akkad”, the title his father had used, and began to use the appellation of "King of the Four Quarters [of the World]". This was the title used by Sargon the Great and his successors in the Akkadian Empire. It suggests that Shulgi began to have imperial ambitions. The second half of his reign is marked by numerous wars with foreign enemies, which necessitated the building of a defensive wall around the borders. Despite this, he gave the Sumerian people 47 years of unparalleled prosperity and he also continued the artistic renaissance that had begun with the reign of Gudea.
>>867654
After the reigns of his successors, Amar-Suen and Shu-Suen, things started to fall apart. First there was drought, then famine. Amorite tribesmen from the land of Martu started migrating from the west in overwhelming numbers. The Gutians were attacking from the north, and the Elamites were menacing the east. Ibbi-Suen, the last king of Ur-Namma’s dynasty, was besieged on all sides. He appealed for help from Ishbi-erra, the king of Isin. Ishbi-erra kept promising assistance that he never delivered. He took twenty talents of silver for desperately needed grain supplies, then kept the money and the grain for himself. As it turns out, he had his own designs on the throne of Sumer. Then in the ultimate betrayal, while Ibbi-Suen was fighting the enemies of Sumer in the north, Ishbi-erra switched alliances, leaving Ibbi-Suen outflanked in the south.
>>867654
The end came quickly, and catastrophically, in 2004 B.C. All the cities of Sumer were sacked and plundered by the Gutians and the Elamites. Ibbi-Suen, the last of the Sumerian kings, was led in chains to the Elamite capital. He was later executed.
At the time, despite the totality of their defeat, the Sumerians probably didn’t realize that the show was finally over. They had been conquered several times before, but they had always risen again to their former glory. This time, there would not be a Sumerian resurrection.
A period of internecine warfare followed the Fall of Sumer as local lords battled for regional supremacy. Eventually the Akkadians gained the ascendency. The few surviving Sumerians were assimilated into the Akkadian kingdoms. The Sumerians were no longer a distinct and independent people. After 1900 B.C., Sumerian ceased to be a spoken language.
>>867654
The Akkadians later became known as Babylonians. The Babylonians considered themselves to be the inheritors of the Sumerian civilization. They adopted Sumerian history as their own. They worshiped many of the same gods (though under different names), continued many Sumerian cultural traditions, and they still used the Sumerian sign system for the language of religion and the court.
After several hundred years, the Babylonian Empire was destroyed in history’s endless cycle of the rise and fall of civilizations. With the final collapse of the Babylonian Empire, all memory of the Sumerians disappeared. The modern world didn't even know of the Sumerians until the late 19th century A.D., when archaeological expeditions started unearthing thousands of Sumerian tablets. At first, the tablets were thought to be Babylonian or Assyrian, because no one had ever heard of the Sumerians. Now, after a century of scholarly research, a portrait of the Sumerians has finally emerged from the dim shadows of the ancient past. Their extraordinary civilization has once again been resurrected.
link to some dank sumerian art/artefacts
http://sumerianshakespeare.com/106901.html
>>867774
Before the 19th century people used to think Classical Greece and Homer was the oldest civilization in Europe. Then they discovered Mycenaeans and Minoans putting that date back nearly a thousand years.
Quite shocking how little we knew of Ancient history.
>>867827
maybe there is still more we do not know? Maybe there were civilizations that were as old to the Sumerians as the Sumerians are to us? What if there were civilizations predating the ice age, whose traces were long ago wiped out?
>>867750
Second one is inherently false, they may not have had more advanced technology, but they certainly had knowledge of peoples, cities, and empires that we do not know now.
>>867853
Well civilization did not show up overnight + a lot of early civilizations from Mesopotamia to China spoke of times earlier than them so yes, there's a huge chunk of the narrative of early human civilization missing or surviving only in Oral literature.
>>867763
>The histories of Gudea and Ur-Namma are given elsewhere on this website.
Which website?
What are your sources?
>>867866
http://sumerianshakespeare.com
here you go lad
Their mythology evolved into Abrahamic religions of todays over the time. Their myths created a basis for the stories in the bible. The story of flood is taken from the Epic of Gilgamesh.
>>867896
Somehow I doubt that.
t. Philosophical atheist
>>866763
>One thing I find really interesting about this civilization is the comparatively wide-range of roles women held.
>really interesting
>really
>interesting
>really
Are you some kind of artificial person or something? Having an experimental conversation with real humans?
>>869673
The fuck you on about m8?
>>866707
>I wonder if they had knowledge that we today have lost.
We still use many of the same stories and ideas they pioneered. Not just the sexigisimal notation used in geometry and for recording time, but also many of their myths are preserved in the Bible (the Flood, the Harrowing of Hell, the Virgin Birth etc etc)
>>866725
>nomads arrived, the rest is literally history
>#NotAllNomads
>We must take care of them!
>They'll return home after the war is over!
Why Sumerian Merkel? Why?
>>869781
Why /pol/? Why?
>>867510
>Do not my achievements surpass all qualifications?"
>>869792
Humor.
Oh wait, can't make jokes on /his/.
>>867510
>None of the nobles could write on clay as I could. There where people regularly went for tutelage in the scribal art, I qualified fully in subtraction, addition, reckoning and accounting
>I am an experienced scribe who does not neglect a thing."
I find it amazing that at this time, Kings take the time to boast of being able to do math and write.
>>869866
It wasn't humor. It was just a blatant attempt at political commentary
>>869673
kek, I'm roofing. You made my day anon.
>>867774
Thanks for the quality posts!
>>869866
If you think that was humorous you are not old enough to be on this site.
>>870038
no problem lad. I just wish there was a good documentary on the Sumerians. I tried looking on youtube, but all I found was ancient ayy lmao and we wuz kangs :(
excavation of the royal tombs of Ur
Insane to think about the existence of this civilization
>>870182
50,000 people used to live here. Now it's a ghost town.
Puabi's tomb
<3 Sumerian phalanx
>>870144
WAKE ME UP INSIDE
>>867896
Speaking of myths, Inanna is my goddessfu. She was a total cunt to a level that's hilariously petty and amusing.
>>870279
Geez, humans are such pieces of shit.
>>870305
Burial at the Royal Tombs of Ur: The attendants were arranged as shown, then they were given poison to drink. The oxen were also killed. The structure in the background is the domed burial chamber. The female attendants, with their elaborate headdresses, are lined up before it. The men on the left are the soldiers who will guard the tomb for all eternity.
When the picture is enlarged, one can see many of the artifacts displayed on these pages. Included are: the weapons of the soldiers, the ringed reign posts between the oxen, and the two bull-headed lyres.
>>870305
Available from All-Posters is an interesting illustration by the artist (Amédée Forestier) which was never published, showing the same scene moments before it was covered in soil.
>>870305
Also see a painting of the burial.
>>870279
>>870316
>>870319
>>870321
BID MY BLOOD TO RUN
>>870279
>Great Death-Pit
that's pretty metal
>>870244
Macedonian Phalanx is best Phalanx
>>866707
>tfw Iraq is a fucking shithole today
>tfw mesopotamians were cucked by the eternal Arab
>tfw the eternal Arab is destroying mesopotamian heritage right fucking now
JUST
>>870868
>Implying Anericans didn't di it
>>870868
>the eternal Arab
>implying it wasn't Akkadians/Persians/Greeks/Romans//Turks didn't do it.
>>867510
>Let no one ever at any time say about me, "Could he really subdue them all on his own?"
>The number of lions that I have dispatched with my weapons is limitless; their total is unknown.
This guy spits fire. Holy shit biggie has nothing on him.
>>866707
There are the ruins of an old city named the "Burned City" in modern day Iran that has remnants from 7000 years ago. They even had a pot that created an animation if it was rotated
>>871474
I'm gonna have to ask for some sources on that.
>>866656
tfw you will never be Nanna, the god of fertility and the moon
>>866656
Funnily enough I imagine that their society was kind of a lot like a post-Apocalyptic one like something out of Mad Max, only obviously with less technology.
But think about it - they were the only civilization. ANYWHERE. In all the world for hundreds of years they were the only ones who farmed, who built permanent houses, who had writing and laws and high art and philosophy. Everywhere, all around them on all other sides, were hordes of unwashed barbarians who wanted all their riches and would attack constantly for them.
For a certain kind of person, that sounds like an awesome time.
>>871306
>Implying Anericans didn't do it
In fairness, we're a bit more likely to steal shit than blow it up, at least intentionally.
>>867896
The flood stories around the world have the same origin.
>>872968
Yes, it's almost like civilizations, and thus the first written traditions, were formed around rivers since they're pretty handy in trade and agriculture or something
>>867827
And they thought that Assyria was just another biblical myth
>>871364
I guess we now have someone to blame for the disappearance of the Asiatic Lion.
>>867896
>>872968
>China
>Part of the Great Flood Myths
What? Fuck no.
The Chinese "Great Flood" would be the Yangtze supposedly being far more worse back in the Ancient Ages with the annual floods. The floods sank the riverside villages of the Hua people, the ancestors of the Han Chinese.
And there was no "Ark" holy fuck. The floods where stopped when a legendary prehistoric Hua chieftain called Yu the Builder sailed the Yangtze and spoke to the Hua tribes and united them to build three massive gorges to lessen the flooding, enabling them to live and create a civilization and the roots of Huaxia and eventually Chinese civilization.
The Three Gorges (where that huge dam is) was supposedly created by Yu and his people.
>>866707
>All their dreams and aspirations
I want to get a job so I can eat food. I want to fuck that bitch and pass on my genes.
>>869792
well...he's not wrong. Empires fall because of this.
>>869781
kek
>>869889
>It wasn't humor.
I thought it was funny
someone tell me Inanna stories
>>875878
She's probably the source of Aphrodite and certainly the source of Ishtar / Ashtart.
>>866656
Isn't there now evidence that there were copper/bronze aged civilizations far before the Sumerians?
>>876284
Really? Please share any information you have, that's fascinating.
>>876284
>far before
Do you mean this?
>Çatalhöyük (Turkish pronunciation: [tʃaˈtaɫhojyc]; also Çatal Höyük and Çatal Hüyük; from Turkish çatal "fork" + höyük "mound") was a very large Neolithic and Chalcolithic proto-city settlement in southern Anatolia, which existed from approximately 7500 BC to 5700 BC, and flourished around 7000 BC.
>>867500
nice
an interesting lecture on Gilgamesh
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46Xst2do8p4
>>867737
Elamites were Mesopotamian, not Iranian. They resided on the other side of the Zagros and spoke an isolate language.
>>875878
One time she was married but wanted to go to the underworld. That didnt work out so she had her husband go to the underworld instead of her so she could be free.
Another time she Hit on the king of her city. He said "fuck off your husband still rots in the underworld you suck" so she released the heavenly ox to destroy the city.
She was a good friend.
>>876284
There were definitely several urban centers and advanced cultures that popped up before Sumeria, but Sumeria seemed to take it to a whole new level. Pre-sumerian proto-civilizations seem to center around a small number of "isolated" urban centers. The Sumerian civilizations took this to a new level - cities were far more common.
The issue with having civilizations much earlier than Sumeria is that you're running right up to the advent of agriculture. It takes a while for a group to go from the development of agriculture to a true civilization, so while you might have some early cities that pop up as agriculture makes higher population densities possible, you still have a long way to go to really be considered a civilization.
>>877126
>It's a Gilgamesh cucks everybody so hard the gods send Enkidu to stop him episode
I love that one
>>867510
>I qualified fully in subtraction, addition
To be fair this isn't that easy without a positional notational system.
>>867593
>4000 years
So the land was already fucked by 1000 BC?
>>877701
and then he cucks the gods by making enkidu his bro4lyfe
>>870303
I have a book solely about her, but I've yet to read it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUcTsFe1PVs
Thread music.
The sumerians Are Great. Im Reading the exaltation of inana by enheduanna in the Original sumerian right now and it completely BTFO Homer. The English translation sadly sucks though
>>867750
What about the baghdad battery. There is still much to uncover.
>>871709
Shahr-e Sukhteh I think is it's name. Look it up. Very interesting stuff.
I was interested in Sumerians and Mesopotamians for a while too.
Mostly because they seemed to the one of the earliest "true" civilization instead of nomadic or semi-nomadic tribes and villages.
But it's mostly misleading, because they weren't really the "founders" of civilization. It was developed slowly by many neolithic village cultures in the middle east thousands of years earlier. Sumeria was just the culmination of all the advances of the Neolithic revolution. The Sumerians themselves were probably invaders, just like the Akkadians after them, the Gutians after them, so on and so forth.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Euphratean_language
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHMK7OgDJjM
Civ 5 Hurrian Hymn (1400 BC)
They had a really crappy vision of the afterlife where no matter what they did they would end up in a desert alone and have nothing to eat or drink forever.
>>867774
Amazing stuff. A good read, thank you.
>>867879
This is so fucked up interesting. Maybe I should study history in university after all. This shit can keep me up all night.
>>877813
name?
>>876308
Thank you friend.
>>867879
What happened in 3000BC? Did an earthquake knock everything down?
>>870144
Wasn't that the city with the market crash?
>>879545
>>879584
are you referring to the biblical account of a city whose currency had failed? If so, then I'm not sure. I do know that Ur is where Abraham was from, before he migrated to Canaan
>>866656
First historical person we know of with certainty was a princess of Uruk as she as the first ever signed her name when writing the legend of her Husband Gilgamesh.
Gilgamesh is the first hero and you'll find his deeds were adapted into later civilizations. Herakles(Hercules) being 2/3 god with superhuman strength. He build an arc for when a flood strikes, as adopted by Noah.
His fame and riches attracted the attention from the god of sex and fertility, Ishtar. Some of her symbols are eggs and bunnies. Ishtar translate into Easter which the emporer of the Byzantine Empire, Konstantin changed to be about Jusus resurrection. Though the name and symbols remained into modern times.
>>879545
>>879629
>were adapted into later civilizations.
>as adopted by Noah.
'no'
>>879752
>The volumes aren't the same!
>It must be a different story with no semblance at all, else the ancient inhabitants of the Levant would have kept the measurements equal!
Really?
>>867879
I've been debating online about what the word for "man" in Sumerian is supposed to represent. The word in Sumerian is "Lu", but what's the earliest symbol (3000BC) supposed to be? A forearm? A head and torso?
What do you guys think?
>>879792
It's no surprise that that you see similarities between them since they are both retelling the same events in history most likely.
In regards to why the Sumerians and the Egyptians didnt or probably didnt know of each other...The Sinai desert is inbetween the borders of their empires. Even to go see what was over there was not a trip to be taken lightly...My guess is they both launched a few expeditions that either failed half way or never came back and they decided it wasnt worth it after that.
>>879941
head and torso deff.
>>879941
A hairy penis.
>>879295
http://www.badarchaeology.com/out-of-place-artefacts/anomalously-old-technology/the-‘batteries-of-babylon’/
>>879941
A bicep.
>>879941
Does "ki" mean woman? If so, they're obviously yannic and phallic.
>>879941
Almost certain it's a bicep.
>>880540
Looks more like a forearm and half a bicep but I totally see it.
Ugh, can we talk about romans or greeks instead...
>>866707
It was probably shitty like any other time in history up to around 17th - 18th century. Where the constant threat of spontaneous disease and/or rape was a very real and terrifying reality.
>>877126
My favorite Inanna story is the time she destroyed a mountain because it didn't praise her beauty. Inanna a best.
>>880573
NO
>>879629
I'll take "common and misleading misconceptions" for 200, Jerry!
Enheduanna wasnt the wife of gilgamesch, she was the daughter of sargon. Herakles is 1/2 god and although his myths might ne related, all they have in Common is being strong. Ishtar had no symbols that were bunny or egg, those are germanic fertility symbols. Gilgamesh didnt build the arc, its just mentioned in his epic as the deed of somebody else. Your stuff is so plausibly wrong you have to be trolling.
>>879941
Its a man with a belly. This sign more translates to "person, individual". There is actually another sign that looks like a dick that means "male" and another one that looks like a vulva meaning "woman, female". Ki means "place, land".
I have a book on early human societies in mesopotamia.
you wouldn't believe how long it took for humans to create things such as close knit communities (cities) or farming the land.
think it happens in about a century or two once someone creates the idea? no it took literally several thousand years! from small communities spread over farm land to larger and larger communities which turned into cities, where people could specialize in a skill and not have to be a farmer or a goat herder.
there were places that horses did not even live in yet, and some animals not domesticated/eaten. life was truly different.
>>881042
furthermore, i stress that it's over thousands of years!
in merely 1 millenium so much has happened, could you even fathom what this millennium will bring?
yet in their time, it was possible where people were living in the same conditions with the same technology for 4 or 5!
>>881047
still, sumerians are the first tangible people in history. their culture is urban and their literature is surprisingly non-shitty. it's easy to see why people focus on them instead of nameless earlier peoples we found some shards of bowls of.
>>866656
wow
>>881112
I'm actually more interested in those less tangible, less urban peoples...but those qualities obviously make it next to impossible to get a handle on them.
Babylon invented urbanization and "civilization" after the flood.
Nimrod was the first dictator.
JUST ACUTE
>>867709
Is it certain they invented all those things? If they did that's stunning
>>882956
Well, inventing something does not necessarily mean that they were the only ones to make that invention. Also some earlier inventions may be attributed to them simply because they are the earliest civilization in the book.
Still pretty good.
i want to hug JUST
Any good documentaries on the Sumerians or Mesopotamia in general?
>>867774
>Indo Europeans
Best ethnic group for sure.
That was a good read, albeit a little confusing in the middle.
>>867879
It's really interesting how it's first very symbolic and then more abstract and simpler over time
>do an ancient history class
>70% of the course is about learning the roles of women and how evil men were
Fucking hell.
>>885281
If this would ever happen to me I would explode, people would have to tip their fedoras so hard but I wouldn't care, I'd tell them what I think of their revisionist pseudo history in all clarity, I would tear the whole room down, fuck, even imagining some beta feminist "man" or even better a women with a degree "teaching" people about the oppression of women in ancient times and how terrible it all was... I need trigger warnings for this kind of shit.
>>870868
Al those moments will be lost in time...
... like tears...
... in rain.
... Time to die.
>>869889
its both
>>884688
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZsH6X9HtrU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKs5Wvv1-14
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSus_25PL4w
hey i am new to /his/ can anyone show me around
>>885723
thanks lad
>>870039
If you're that humorless you must be miserable.
Anyone know about the Gutians? Who were they? Were they steppe nomads?
>>886990
They used hit and run tactics and utterly failed at administrating an empire.
So could be steppe nomads, I guess.
>>887141
Sumerians vs Isis: who can win
>>885723
i appreciate you
>>867520
>there also was a group of rich merchants, but we dont know much about them
my hands just got a little warm
>>881042
What is the book?
>>881047
The more I've thought about this, the more depressing it is. Imagine, they're all living the same kind of life, hunter-gathering or farming, waging war against each other, there's a huge chance you'll be killed or your family will be killed and your village burned to the ground.
Things may seem shit today at times but I take comfort in that we don't all have to deal with that shit.
>>891319
but this is literally what I want to deal with, nowadays is only about who can pretend to be the nicest guy/girl and suck enough cocks to get higher on the chain, if youre not born rich you will never be rich anyway, all the people telling you otherwise are soulless psychopaths who would sacrifice everything for more money
>>866763
>One thing I find really interesting about this civilization is the comparatively wide-range of roles women held
>wives, cooks, weavers, and fulfilled other household duties
>wide-range of roles
>>866940
perfect response to a try hard post. bravo.
>>867737
Iranians are not semitic. This is a very basic fact and tbqhf the fact that you got it wrong throws the legitimacy of your copy & paste job into question.
>>866763
The more 'basic' or less advanced a society is, the less specialized its roles tend to be. People do what needs to be done to survive. A trophy wife who sits around most of the day gossiping with friends and commanding the servants is an rare luxury only found in more developed civilizations.
It's not surprising women were priestesses. Crop fertility and the mysteries of childbirth (lol, they bleed moonblood but don't die!), etc. are/were a long-standing 'woman's role' in traditional societies across the planet.
>>891597
I can see where you are coming from. Nothing's sacred anymore and modern life has its difficulties, but I'm still glad I can get up in the morning to take a piss without a huge possibility of being killed by a raiding party and having my family taken as slaves.
Summerian here, what would you like to know of my people? also did you know that we are white and with blue eyes, but blonde hair was never common
>>866763
>>891984
Not to mention the role of sacred free use town slut (Shamhat) in the epic of Gilgamesh.
Sex and gender were certainly seen a bit differently. Sex is a civilizing act for Enkidu.
I wouldn't call them progressive in the modern sense. Likewise, I don't think their differences are all accounted for by specialization of labor, etc. Most of their important religious roles were likely to do with their reproductive and sexual function as opposed to mutual respect between genders.
>sag-gig-ga
Sumerians were black. Don't trust modern biased interpretations.
>>892158
White people:
"WE WUZ SUMERIANS N SHIET"
>>866707
>daily life of commoner
>do your one job that you are good at
>finish
>it's not even noon yet
>go visit Makkheb to see if he'll marry is fucking daughter off already
>stub your toe on the way out
>curse whatever god is in charge of toe-stubbing
>half-way to Makkheb's house, it begins to rain
>remember that the god of stubbed toes is also the god of rain and wicker baskets
>fuck me
>go back home
>sacrifice your handsomest son
>it stops raining an hour later
>you die of a cold anyway
>>892824
kek, n1
>>890850
>>892824
Huehue
>>892158
Sing to me of your iriigation!
>>892450
Since whites have tons of their own civs they don't feel the need to claim descendence from one. The Americans were white. Dominated by semitics half the time. Races back then clearly didn't have the connotation they do today. If you're looking for a civilization of black people, the Dravidians were similar in complexion to melanesians and sentinelese. Africa rarely had the environment to make agriculture necessary. The land is too rich, the foliage too thick, and the the rivers too non-variant (unlike the rivers almost every great civilization has grew up around) to make agriculture a boon.
>>892450
I think he might mean "pale" and not "Western/Northern European."
>>893449
Yes. Caucausian is not Germanic.
>>873101
dandrow? is that you?
>>885723
what is this pro christian bullshit
>>893442
>If you're looking for a civilization of black people, the Dravidians were similar in complexion to melanesians and sentinelese.
>>893641
*tips fedora*
>>891597
How's sophomore year going?
We Wuz Kangz
>>893641
Le tiping of le fedora like le kind gentlesir
>>886990
Some people say that they are Kurds today
>>879362
>The Sumerians themselves were probably invaders
Highly unlikely
