Why did the Japanese fear Christanity so much and repressed it as a foreign religion, when Buddhism and Taoism are also foreign religions but didn't get the same treatment?
>>816012
Christianity was too weird for them.
Also, I can imagine Christianity would clash with Shintoism. Meanwhile, other eastern religions would just get meshed together.
>>816027
>too weird for the nips
now THAT is impressive
>>816047
They were isolationists.
They were only exposed to their own brand of weirdness for so long they couldn't cope.
>>816012
It was coupled with Europeans moving everywhere in Asia and even taking over land as they went. Europeans also had far superior ships, cannons, firearms and armor. Plus the idiots took slaves from Japan while Japan did not practice slavery. So Christians were seen as 5th column by Toyotomi and Tokugawa.
It was western and thus subversive due to heavy handed European diplomacy, compounded by the fact that Christians proselytize heavily.
Plus worshiping a foreigner who was (the one and only) god (and god's son at the same time) was weird concept for east asia cultures to grasp.
Buddhism and Taoism were introduced to Japan when Chinese influence was at its height. They were seen as positive because China was the only civilization they really knew.
By the time Christianity managed to get a foothold, Japan had developed its own culture.
>>816012
They had an ancient prophecy bestowed upon them by Buddha himself that warned them to never trust the teachings of a man with a snipped penis.
>>816012
because it was more foreign.
>>816082
>Christians were seen as 5th column by Toyotomi and Tokugawa.
This is the right answer.
The development of modern Shinto is a direct consequence of Japan's encounter with Western religio-ideology.
>>816012
Taoism at least in its pure form was outlawed in Japan. The ban on Christianity had more to do with European colonialism. the fact that it was an exclusive religion didn't help it either
>>816012
Literally Protestants
Before Protestants showed up and it was just Catholic missionaries there were no issues
Also because the Japanese Christians were thought to be disloyal to the Tokugawa shogunate
>>816012
>>816093
This pretty much, but Christianity was accepted from the common class to the nobility at least until when Toyotomi Hideyoshi took power, and then it started to become heavily restricted overtime, culminating in the full expulsion of missionaries under Tokugawa Hidetada and forced renunciation by converts.
Also Buddhism at least was ingrained in Japanese culture for a long time, so it became normal part of the culture, while Christianity had foreign missionaries actively proselytizing and was seen as subversive to the influence and power of the shogunate
>>816012
Buddhism was repressed. It was repressed following the Sengoku period and put under strict government guidelines. There where many anti buddhist movements. Japan wanted to have shinto in ascendancy as the only religion of Japan.
>>816525
There was never a pure shinto before the Meiji restoration. Buddhism and shintoism were liberally mixed together
certain sects of Buddhism were harassed in japan from time to time. Many Buddhist monasteries had their own militias and were political forces unto themselves.
That's a loaded question. The Japanese people actually liked Christianity, especially the warrior class. The leaders of Japan didn't like it though because Christianity teaches that each person has value and their master shouldn't be earthly. Obviously, that goes against the rule of the daimyo who are earthly.
>>816552
Christianity was never super popular, even in the "Christianized" parts of kyushu it was a minority religion
>>816012
Subversive ideology
Even in Europe Christfags were subversive
>>816558
Can you source your claims?
>>816568
This. They only did what the Romans failed to do, and it cost the Romans their empire.
>>816622
Sorry I could only find one estimate of the Christan population, about 150,000, with two hundred parishes
buddhist and taoist influence came at a time the japanese were trying to model their own society on the chinese. within a few centuries they had become more insular and this continued until when christianity was introduced
Because they wantes culture ties with the locals, not their trade partners.
Mainland Asian religions had adoption problems too. Though they got help because someone with power helped spread it.
>>816027
Nah, if you see it in latin amarica and the Philippines it incorporated a lot of ancestor worship/nature stuff. They were scared the fuck out of spain coming and conquering with the influence of the priests.
>>816012
Christianity threatened the political structure of Shinto.
>>816627
Gibbon pls
Hating Christianity is out of fashion nowadays
Christfags in Japan are cucks
Director Mamoru Oshii is an ex-christian cuck, making shitty Angel's Eggs 'muh lost faith' movie
So many cucktians in Japan, and ex-cucktians/sympathizer tend to be euroboo leftists
nanban shit
Because Europeans were trouble. The Spanish, the Alberto Barbosa and the Flat Jews spend more time fighting among themselves than anything else. Originally the missionaries brought with them arquebuses and other Euro technology, which made them popular among the warrior class and artisans.
>>816012
Because they said the Emperor wasn't a god
The first known appearance of organized Christianity in Japan was the arrival of the Portuguese Catholics in 1549. Francis Xavier arrived in Japan with three Japanese Catholic converts intending to start a church in the Nagasaki area. The local Japanese people initially assumed that the foreigners were from India and that Christianity was a new "Indian faith". These mistaken impressions were due to already existing ties between the Portuguese and India; the Indian city of Goa was a central base for Portuguese India at the time, and a significant portion of the crew on board their ships were Indian Christians. Later on, the Roman Catholic missionary activities were exclusively performed by Portuguese-sponsored Jesuits and Spanish-sponsored mendicant orders, such as the Franciscans and Dominicans. Francisco Xavier (a Catholic Saint), Cosme de Torres (a Jesuit priest), and John Fernandez were the first who arrived in Kagoshima with hopes to bring Christianity to Japan. Xavier and the Jesuit order was held in good esteem and his efforts seemed to have been rewarded with a thriving community of converts. At baptism, these converts were given Portuguese "Christian names" and encouraged to adopt Western culture. This practice contributed to suspicions that the converts were in reality foreign agents working to subvert social order.
Under Oda Nobunaga, the Jesuits enjoyed the favor of the shogunate,
Additionally, Nobunaga was very interested in European culture which was still very new to Japan. He collected pieces of Western art as well as arms and armor, and he is considered to be among the first Japanese people in recorded history to wear European clothes. He also became the patron of the Jesuit missionaries in Japan and supported the establishment of the first Christian church in Kyoto in 1576, but the situation began to change once Toyotomi Hideyoshi's suspicions were aroused against Christianity.
>>816973
explain the book of job to me pls
>>817304
Bad things happen to good people.
>>817183
>Because they said the Emperor wasn't a god
Shitpost discarded
Emperor worship in Japan didn't start until the Meji era
>>816162
>Protestants.
>Before Protestants showed up and it was just Catholic missionaries there were no issues
M8 Catholics fucked up Christianity for east asia.
Hell, they were being successful at gaining converts in China when THEY fucked THEMSELVES. The Dominicans and the Franciscans trashed Jesuits for using syncretism, Confucianism, and Chinese language in teaching Christianity to the Chinese. This led to a fight between Catholic groups in China and the Qing Emperor got mad and forced them out and executed a few priests.
Don't get me wrong, Protestantism is cancer too. It was responsible for the Taiping rebellion and the weirdo Christian Chinese cults in China today.
>>816012
One reason is Buddhism was perfectly happy to be incorporated into native beliefs and religious practices. Amaterasu was seen as a manifestation of the cosmic Buddha.
If some shinto shrine tried to conflate Yaweh with the creator Gods of the koshiki he would have been denounced by Christians
>>816012
After WW2, faced with the cold hard truth that their "God-Emperor" had been defeated, there was very strong outcry from many Japanese people for America to send ministers. They were very interested in learning about the religion of their conquerors, as the Japanese do have a strong "borrowing" culture.
No Christian ministers answered the call.
Today less than 1% of Japanese people self-identify as Christians.
Why would the Shogun have to submit to an old guy thousands of miles away?
>>817339
The Virgin Mary showed up and it still wasn't good enough for them.
>>817330
In Christianity God (as in Absolute Authority) is dead either forever or at least for 3 days. That is indeed problematic. People like to bandwagon seemingly 'eternal' authority because it benefits them, hence why the Emperor was often surrounded by their "trusted" council, who in fact dictated the Imperial governance.
Also the lack of apocalyptic fear. Messianic religions thrive under such circumstances, when people thought the end of the world is near. Did the Japanese even have a concept of that, or the world is eternal for them?
>>817373
>Did the Japanese even have a concept of that, or the world is eternal for them?
Apocalypse in East Asia means "Collapse of the State & Rule of Barbarians."
It's not something religious, its something brought by other people.
>>817304
God wrote a snuff piece
>>816012
Hideyoshi Toyotomi didn't want another Ikko-Ikki-like rebellion.
>>817391
To add, Shimabara Rebellion did happen. So, in a way he was right.
>>817390
Job lives.
The Japanese had already two religions they were following at the same time.
Christianity had to replace both Shinto AND Buddhism in the same person to acquire a new believer.
>>817417
I don't think that's the issue so much as Christianities exclusivism was. Buddhism and Shintoism could co-exist because neither one specifically denied the other. Christianity denies the validity of all other beliefs, and asks that you take it as the one and only truth in the world. That's a pretty hard pill to swallow in a religious/spiritual culture that's used to religions that are used to the inclusive spirituality of Buddhism. Funnily enough, this was also a problem Christianity faced against European paganism as well, and Christian missionaries usually got around it by incorporating local beliefs and myths into local Christian doctrine, by the 14th century though, Christianity was dominant and less flexible, hardened further by the intense doctrinal debates of the reformation, which made it so that missionaries were less willing to compromise with local religions.
>>816012
>Some missionaries had set fire to temples and shrines, and sell off people to foreign countries as slaves.
>Why did the Japanese fear Christanity so much
Are you seriously???
>>816012
>Why did the Japanese fear Christanity so much and repressed it as a foreign religion, when Buddhism and Taoism are also foreign religions but didn't get the same treatment?
Seen any temples of Zeus lately? No? Then how about Thor? Marduk? Perun?
Oh, wait, I just remembered why those places don't exist anymore.
>>817538
Forgetting the Arabic slave trade
Forgetting slaves owned slaves
>Japanese slaves are believed to be the first of their nation to end up in Europe, and the Portuguese purchased large numbers of Japanese slave girls to bring to Portugal for sexual purposes, as noted by the Church[citation needed]in 1555.
>Japanese slave women were even sold as concubines to black African crewmembers, along with their European counterparts serving on Portuguese ships trading in Japan, mentioned by Luis Cerqueira, a Portuguese Jesuit, in a 1598 document.
>Japanese slaves were brought by the Portuguese to Macau, where some of them not only ended up being enslaved to Portuguese, but as slaves to other slaves, with the Portuguese owning Malay and African slaves, who in turn owned Japanese slaves of their own.[8][9]
>>817604
Yeah, because only Christians killed off other religions
>Forgets the muslim conquests
>Forgets the conquest of India
>Forgets Afghanistan used to be a buddhist county
>Forgets Persia used to be Zoroastrianism
>Forgets the arabic pagan gods were killed off by muslims
ayy lamo
>>817311
>shitpost opinion discarded
They always considered the Emperor divine and descended from Amaterasu Omikami
look closely, this is how you backup your claims
http://www.enryo.ro/carti/Japanese%20mythology%20A%20to%20Z.pdf
See that? It's a source
Because it replaces the emperor with the pope.
>>817633
>East Asian Perspective
>LEL ARABS
God, you're so mad aren't you?
Furthermore you can't use LE RELIGIOUS INTOLERANCE to East Asians. They're syncretic as fuck.
>>817643
The Emperor is revered. Not worshipped.
The Cult of the Emperor was a 18th-19th Century reactionary thing thanks to the Sonno Philosophy. Which was born in the Tokugawa period thanks to Neo-Confucianism+Shintoism getting dogpiled.
Read up "Nationalism in Japan" or "Soldiers of the Sun."
Because if they did "Worship their Emperor." This does not explain the tremendous disrespect Shoguns have done to His Majesty. They even fucking Imprisoned a few at one point.
>>816136
Because Reinhard is an angel
>>817183
Funny thing that. Francis Xavier is characterized in modern Japanese popular culture (books, anime, video games and movies) as a demon. A literal, biblical-like demon that eats human beings and shit.
And he's usually obsessed with invading Japan or enslaving Japanese people.
>>817643
Don't believe Jap propaganda. A Japanese theorist of nationalism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motoori_Norinaga) read a couple old books very few people had heard of at the time (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihon_Shoki) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kojiki) and his interpretation eventually became heavily influential in the young Japanese state ideological processes at the end of the Edo and throughout the Meiji period.
>always
is a very strong word.
>>818067
In Sengoku Rance demon Xavier is the big bad with the aim of fucking over JAPAN.
>>816012
A thousand years before there was oposition to Buddhism too.
>>817980
Oh whatever mate
>>816017
>>816012
I'm not sure how I feel about these pictures
>>817633
IIRC some arabs still do worship their pagan gods, although not very openly
>>816012
Buddhism and Taoism are extremely syncretic. Even in China those philosophies were incorporated into Confucianism and folk religion, so in Japan it's a no-brainer that they would mesh easily with Shinto.
With Christianity it's a lot more difficult because it's a much more exclusivist system with very little room for the melding of beliefs. Even African and South American "syncretic" Christianity, despite its incorporation with various local beliefs and customs, is still way more Christian than anything else.
>>817633
>Yeah, because only Christians killed off other religions
You have an amazing ability to put words in someone's mouth.
Asspained Christfag detected.
>>816627
>what is eastern empire
>>816012
There were 300.000 japanese catholics in the 16th century. Then they were prosecuted by the state.
>>819507
I suppose some feudal lords were converted by the jesuits and ordered all vassals to do the same
>>816012
Japanese are a fairly eclectic people, and there's nothing really that they could steal from Christianity without becoming Christians, which they were resolved not to do. You know, shaming their ancestors and such.
>>819507
Christianity.
Not Catholicism. Do try to keep up.
>>819109
They mostly all do. allah is Ba'al.
>>819525
Catholics. Roman catholics. Portuguese and spanish missionaries.
Maybe some nestorians reached Japan but there´s no clear evidence.
more japaweeb christian art plox
>>819550
You know hes probably a Prot, right?
>>817538
It's basically an older version of
>Why do they hate our freedums?
>>819557
Is there anybody that wants to be mixed up with filthy pagan papists?
So it was clearly seen as a threat to the established order by the government
what did japanese people in general think?
Catholicism seemed to have been quite succesful for a while
>>819568
> be japanese
> you need silk from China to make your clothes
> China won´t even talk to you, let alone trade
> Jesuits arrive
> Jesuits have a man inside Peking to set a deal
> Jesuits organize silk trade for a small fee
>>819267
>Say Christians killed off pagan religions
>Get assravaged mad when I bring up others that did the same
wew lad, your impotent rage won't change anything lol
>>817976
>East Asian Perspective
>Battle of Talas
>Du Huan
>Yangzhou massacre (760)
Why are you so mad that it got brought up?
>>819812
>op: why did japan not mix well with christianity?
>guy: christianity doesn't share
>you: herf derf what about islam!
Haha you're so mad you literally brought up something completely irrelevant to the topic.
>>817373
>>817380
Jodo Shinshu, which is literally the most practiced sect of Buddhism in Japan, has its roots in the idea that the age of the Dharma is coming to an end. The founder, Shinran, believed that the world was degenerate and people were incapable of achieving enlightenment, and the only thing for them to do was to put their faith in Amida Buddha. Dude was also a badass who drank and fucked and didn't give a shit about acting "monkly".
The end of the age of the Dharma is about as close to "the apocalypse" as I can think of in Japanese religious culture.
>>817980
>The Emperor is revered. Not worshipped.
Aren't you back peddling?
The Japanese worshipped the shinto gods they liked, just like the Romans did with theirs
Trojan war is a great example of that
With Religions like that you can consider someone divine without worshipping them.
>>819887
>op: why did japan not mix well with christianity?
>guy: christianity doesn't share
>you: herf derf what about islam!
>guy: Stop calling me out on my bullshit, shitlord REEEE
>Haha you're so mad you literally brought up something completely irrelevant to the topic
>bring up irrelevant pagans religions like Zeus and Odin
>Get buttflusterd when something that deals with pagan religions like muslims is brought up
Seems I hit a nerve
How does that make you feel?
>>819991
You're really embarrassing, dude. And that's on top of being retarded.
>>820024
Why are you backpedaling?
And why are you accusing others of what you yourself are guilty of?
How does that make you feel?
BIG
CROSSES
>>820036
You're really embarrassing, dude. In addition to being retarded.
>>819590
They're literally everywhere, the Jesuits. Everywhere but heaven.
>>820060
no one is in heaven (^:
>>819892
Pure Land is such garbage. It's just the absolute plebiest form of Buddhism ever devised.
>>816012
Japan persecuted Buddhism though.
lookup
Haibutsu kishaku (literally "abolish Buddhism and destroy Shākyamuni") and Shinbutsu bunri
As for the Taoist
they are kinda like shinto so they just got absorbed
The higher ups in Japan at that time didn't like these religions for being foreign but it's just that Christianity was more foreign and it scared them.
But don't feel bad
Throughout history, though, other religions such as Christianity were also practiced side-by-side with other Japanese traditions, such as Folk or New Religions. Today, scholars commonly refer to this syncretism with the phrase "Born Shinto, Marry Christian, Die Buddhist" (see Kisala 2006: 3).
http://www.facstaff.bucknell.edu/jms089/Z-Unpublished%20Work/Beyond%20Belief.pdf
>>820058
You are avoiding the question and you are being a hypocrite plus your use of tu quoque is amusing
how does this make you feel?
Does it hurt your feelings?
Why are you at a loss for words?
Toyotomi Hideyoshi heard from a Spanish ship captain who shipwrecked in Japan that the missionaries were priming Japan for conquest and the conversion to roman Catholicism was to make it easier.
Is Shintoism even practiced or taken seriously in Modern Japan?
>>820161
Practiced definitely. Taken seriously is another matter.
>>820163
Now I'm left wondering where do the Japanese find the time to practice it.
>>820169
they sometimes visit shrines for good luck, that sort of stuff, think fortune cookies
>>820161
Shinto is more than just a set of beliefs, it's a national attitude. Eastern religion is more integrated into the secular order than Western religion is capable of being.
>>816012
I don't care why, i just acre about the fact that they made the right decision.
>>820123
Buddhist temples continually raised armies and interfered with secular powers. Still the religion was never banned.Even the meiji period persecutions were mainly to separate Buddhism from shinto.
Taoism was banned, However bits of it were absorbed and practiced by several religious groups
>>820261
http://www.oocities.org/azuchiwind/monks.htm
>The warrior-monks made it their habit to get involved in halting Imperial successions and doing attempts at coup d'etat; and the opposite of those. Because they apparently never hesitated to kill people for every kind of issue, today they might be on the Emperor's (or Shogun's, or Regent's, or Chief Minister's) side and tomorrow they still be there but with intention to whack him,
Oda Nobunaga was the friendliest of all de facto rulers of Japan when it comes to foreigners -- he enjoyed conversations with some Portuguese Roman Catholics, especially about geography, architecture, voyages, discoveries and of course warcraft. Several of Oda's own Generals and Captains were Catholics, too, for instance Lord Takayama Ukon (click here for profile & pictures).
>So, although having no particular design to set himself against anyone in religious matters, Oda Nobunaga rode to Kyoto and cancelled the Decree right on time before it went public.
>Priest Nichijo was furious, and Oda Nobunaga offered him a 'scientific' way out to vent his primal anger without involving average citizens: he invited the priest to come to Azuchi and hold a public debate against a Catholic preacher, Luis Frois (click here for story and pictures); and let the better win as far as arguments were the issue. This invite was accepted because it would have been embarrassing to decline a challenge.
>This fully-documented debate (called 'The Azuchi Arguments' or 'Azuchi Ron' in Japanese) was held, and to the audience, including Oda himself, Priest Nichijo lost in the verbal duel.
>The Roman Catholic diaries of this era said that Priest Nichijo nearly dragged the verbal and spiritual duel into the physical realm, if Oda didn't separate the two contestants by his own hands (Nichijo snatched Oda Nobunaga's favorite spear that happened to be put on the wall, and started to hit Frois with it).
Because the Christians acted in a very degenerate way. Harboring slaves, incapable of rational discourse, incapable of higher standards of cleanliness, widespread criminal acts by the christians, etc
Christians were same as niggers to the japs
>>820169
Festivities.
>>820161
Shinto is not "ism"
It is a life attitude.
We never believe in God.
We live with Kami-sama
>>823390
>Shinto is not "ism"
Quit being so paranoid; it's a perfectly valid English term.
isolationism,. theres literally no better way to be, fuck everyone else and their bs
>>823119
Got any sources to back up those claims?
Oda Nobunaga want Christian but he liked them
>>824146
*wasn't*
They dont like foreign stuff. Not even foreign veggies.
>>817183
Wonder how different things would've been if Nobunaga hadn't been assassinated. Is there any chance he would've converted and if so would that have maybe led to a big conversion movement in Japan?
Because Buddhism played a role in their culture and history. Christian missionaries is a recent phenomenon.
>>824321
>s there any chance he would've converted
No, he once threaten a Christan daimyo that if he didnt follow orders it would be "unfortunate" for Christians in japan.
He was interested in the trade and western knowledge they brought but his words and actions suggest he was far form Christian
Imagine being Japanese, Christians show up and tell you about this God who cares how you think and act, and most importantly that you have specific knowledge of him. He's all powerful but for some reason took roughly one and a half millennia before he could get his word to you. Seems dumb.
>>816149
Modern Shinto is a thing? Isn't Shinto just basically a Japanese Shamanism?
>>825330
>Modern Shinto is a thing?
Not really.
>Isn't Shinto just basically a Japanese Shamanism?
Animism.
>>825305
They actually liked it before they got banned
and still practiced it during the ban but stayed hidden.
Look up Kakure Kirishitan
By the end of the 16th century, the Japanese mission had become the largest overseas Christian community that was not under the rule of a European power. Its uniqueness was emphasized by Alessandro Valignano since 1582, who promoted a deeper accommodation of Japanese culture. Japan was then the sole overseas country in which all members of those confraternities were locals, as was the case with Christian missions in Mexico, Peru, Brazil, the Philippines, or India, in spite of the presence of a colonial elite.
Most Japanese Christians lived in Kyushu, but Christianization was not a regional phenomenon and had a national impact. By the end of the 16th century it was possible to find baptized people in virtually every province of Japan, many of them organized in communities. On the eve of the Sekigahara battle, fifteen daimyo were baptized, and their domains stretched from Hyuga in Southeast Kyushu to Dewa in North Honshū. Hundreds of churches had been built throughout Japan.
Accepted on a national scale, Christianity was also successful among different social groups from the poor to the rich, peasants, traders, sailors, warriors, or courtesans. Most of the daily activities of the Church were done by Japanese from the beginning, giving the Japanese Church a native face, and this was one of the reasons for its success. By 1590, there were seventy native brothers in Japan, fully one half of Jesuits in Japan and fifteen percent of all Jesuits who were working in Asia.
>>824146
He liked their guns
>>825347
Both are pretty damn primitive.
>>817327
That's nice, but we were talking about Japan
Illiterate niggers fuck off
>>825363
It was hardly a large section of the population. I wouldnt say they liked it, at least not compared to the dozens of sects of Buddhism and Shinto that were already available
100,000-500,000 is impressive but still quite a minority in a country of millions.
>>825347
>Shinto is Animism
Have you read a book or do you think that "animism" had an Emperor-cult that incorporated a military-industrial complex, or even covers the theological and societal concepts in Shinto?
All religions are bullshit. People often believe in bullshit. Buddhism and Shintoism are comfortable for the Japanese to believe in. But Christianity is not. Because it's too far fetched to be true.
Christianity was left untouched until it became a direct threat to the Shogun. It's part of what led to the closure of Japan to the rest of the world.
But why did they fear Christianity? It's a peaceful religion with lots of benefits such as advanced western technologies.
>>825671
Jesuits meddled in local politics and even conspired with christian lords to bring a fleet of conquistadores from the Philippines
>>825578
That has nothing to do with the discussion
Not an argument
>>825671
> It's a peaceful religion
best known to the medieval Japanese for introducing practical firearms, cannons and the most advanced warships on the planet.
The Jesuits were literally making cannons.
The Japanese were also aware of European colonialism taking place in Asia and other parts of the world
The population of christians in japan is nearly equal with the number of muslims
>>825939
While Christians represent fewer than 1% of the population, there have been eight Christian Prime Ministers in Japan.
Roman Catholic
Hara Takashi – leader of the 19th government and the 10th Prime Minister.
Shigeru Yoshida – leader of the 45th, 48th, 49th, 50th, and 51st governments and the 32nd Prime Minister.
Taro Aso – leader of the 92nd government and the 59th Prime Minister.
Protestant
Viscount Takahashi Korekiyo – leader of the 20th government and the 11th Prime Minister.
Tetsu Katayama – leader of the 46th government and the 33rd Prime Minister.
Ichirō Hatoyama – leader the 52nd, 53rd, and 54th governments and the 35th Prime Minister.
Masayoshi Ōhira – leader of the 68th and 69th governments and the 43rd Prime Minister.
Yukio Hatoyama – leader of the 94th government and the 60th Prime Minister.
>>825947
ok? so?
i was making a statement, not instigating a religious war lad
>>825400
I talked about China because the Catholics there initially got accepted and were removed by their own doing.
In Japan, Catholics were accepted by just a few warlords but the entire country did not like their proselytizing ways.
Ergo Catholicism fucked up Christianity for East Asia.
And then some retard here >>816162 blames protestants while protestants were a 0 thing in East Asia until the 1800's.
>>825993
I was making a statement too
No need to get defensive
>>825803
Japanese god and goddess created Japanese island for the Japanese. That makes sense.
Western (middle eastern?) god's son died for all mankind to save them, including Japanese people. That doesn't make sense, at least for the Japanese then.
According to this site, more than half of modern Japanese people are atheist. The number of the believers in Shinto and Christianity are the same.
http://www.japan-guide.com/topic/0002.html
>>826781
More than half of all East Asia is Atheist/Irreligious.
They did not have as strong a clergy as Islam/Hinduism/Christianity roving around bonking them in the head to follow dogma.
They have social philosophies for that.
In Japan, even self claimed Catholic people don't think abortion is bad. For them the most important thing is to get along with other people and religion doesn't come first.
>>816627
Go fuck yourself Edward.
Christians subverting military effectiveness is probably the worst part of Gibbons work
>>816082
>took slaves from Japan
now that part I never really thought about, why did Africa exclusively become slave central and not the Asian countries? How did they stop this from happening?
>>820136
You're really embarrassing, dude. In addition to being retarded
>>826895
Because from the 1500's-1700's Asian Slaves were bought off criminals. Like Wokou Pirates. Who habitually have to run from authorities.
In Africa, African states and chiefs did it. Its legal as per their rules of conquest. In East Asia: there existed powerful states that have outlawed slavery.
Not to mention BUYING Asian slaves makes you party to the crime in Japan & China's book.
When Portugal started kidnapping Asian subjects for slavery they dun goof'd big time. In China, their trading post in Tunmen was attacked, all Portuguese captured were executed, and it was a crime to be Portuguese and stand on Chinese soil for many years. In Japan, they were told to fuck off and leave while their converts were either told to abandon christianity or die.
Whats funny is that Portuniggery happened in China earlier than in Japan (1521). How the Japs did not see that coming is a mystery
>>818221
To be fair, Rance needs Jesus
>>826939
You are avoiding the question and you are being a hypocrite plus your use of tu quoque is amusing
how does this make you feel?
Does it hurt your feelings?
Why are you at a loss for words?
>>818067
Many stories and portrayals depict Oda Nobunaga as a villain or demon bent on the conquest of Japan too
He appears frequently within fiction and continues to be portrayed in many other anime, manga, video games, and cinematic films. Many depictions show him as villainous or even demonic in nature, though some portray him in a more positive light.
the novel and anime series Yōtōden portrays Nobunaga as a literal demon in addition to a power-mad warlord
Nobunaga is portrayed as evil, villainous, bloodthirsty, and/or demonic in many video games such as Ninja Master's, Sengoku, Maplestory, Inindo: Way of the Ninja and Atlantica Online, and the video game series Onimusha, Samurai Warriors, Sengoku Basara (and its anime adaptation) and Soulcalibur.
prepare for cringe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29gpogX3yy8
and make it double
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixWP_B7wZpE
>>820261
>Taoism was banned
Source?
>>824485
He was pro-Christian in the sense that he was using this new religion as a stick against the very powerful Buddhist sects that he was in conflict with. If he could turn the lower classes away from Buddhism and toward Christianity, it would empower his position by depriving his enemies of support.
I believe he may have accepted baptism if there was strong political incentive, such as some kind of alliance with the Roman Church that would have provided military power and/or legitimacy in the eyes of European allies.
But he would have remained an atheist in private.
Like Napoleon, religion was just another tool at his disposal.
>>816012
>Be Catholic church
>Send missionaries to Japan
>Lie to the Shogans face and say you are Buddihists and come to talk about the new incarnation of Buddah called Jesus
>Get ok from Shogan for your temples
>Walk around telling people their ancestors are burning in hell for not being Christians
>Say Buddah is burning in hell
>Shogans start kicking these guys out
>Take refuge in seedier parts of the kingdom
>Smuggle in cocain and sell it, forcing people to convert to get their fix
>Participate in underground slave trade even though it's illegal
>Collective Shogans are so fed up they start rounding people up
>Display a picture of the Virgin mary to entire village. Everyone in the village ordered to trample on the picture
>Those that don't are immediiently grabbed and nailed to a cross
>Superstitious Catholcis refuse to walk on the image and get killed
>Raid temples
>Literally discover plans to use the churchs to sneak in military forces and conquerer the country
>Religion is banned
WE DIDN'T DO NUFFIN
bump :^)
>>818059
Thank you anon you just gave me a LOTGH boner
>>827494
Some of his statements seem very buddhist. his favorite song for instance was from the play Atsumori
思へばこの世は常の住み家にあらず In truth, this world is not eternally inhabited
草葉に置く白露、水に宿る月よりなほあやし It is more transient than dewdrops on the leave of grass, or the moon reflected in the water.
金谷に花を詠じ、榮花は先立つて無常の風に誘はるる After reciting the poetry of flower at Kanaya, all glory is now left with the wind of impermanence.
南楼の月を弄ぶ輩も 月に先立つて有為の雲にかくれり Those who leisurely play with the moon of southern tower, now hide in the cloud of Saṅkhāra.
人間五十年、化天のうちを比ぶれば、夢幻の如くなり Human life lasts only 50 years, Contrast human life with life of Geten, It is but a very dream and illusion.
一度生を享け、滅せぬもののあるべきか Once they are given life from god, there is no such thing don't perish.
これを菩提の種と思ひ定めざらんは、口惜しかりき次第ぞ Unless we consider this a very seed of awakening, it is a grievous truth indeed.
>>827329
There are lots, the most recent I read was Ellis Amdur's Old school, a collection of essays on Japanese martial arts, but you can find references tot he 8th century ban in other works
https://books.google.com/books?id=mlyje6C6s7YC&pg=PA2&lpg=PA2&dq=taoism+banned+in+japan&source=bl&ots=4uoVPoi3pj&sig=UhxUGqxrjVen_CwMQKiFgT0CCPA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiBoui4v77LAhXMKiYKHbuuA8IQ6AEIQTAF#v=onepage&q=legally%20banned&f=false
>>816012
>Emperor is God
>another religion shows up dictating that there's one true god and anyone who doesn't believe in that one true god is going to be divinely punished
Gee I wonder why the Japanese would clash with Judeochristian beliefs.
>spoiler: same reason the Romans didn't like the Jews
>>827641
>no sources to back up claim
If you are gonna make claims you have to back them up with credible sources.
Otherwise it's just a question begging epithet and will be dismissed
>>830696
You would literally accept no sources on that. None. You could have witnessed everything first hand and then denied it all.
>>820082
Millions and millions and millions of people are in heaven. Just no Jesuits.
>>833358
>Muh appeal to stone fallacy
not an argument
>>824146
Oda was a maverick and was enthusiastic about the his initial encounters. The christian introduced themselves as man of god and dedication. Once the introduction was done, the real face of chrisitianity was shown. They wanted to take over Japan by bribing and converting locals.This became a threat later on when later rulers came into power and the christians fought for control.
>>816012
Because the church can be used to facilitate a takeover over time.
>>827641
>YouButthurtAgainstChristianityTHISmuch.png
>>816012
>be Jap daimyou
>weird spanish foreigners arrive from sea
>they have cool stuff and weapons
>they say I have to convert to thwir religion if I want to trade with them
>that's weird but w/e
>convert and buy useful stuff from them
>now they don't want to trade anymore
>only Jesus
>what the fuck
>find out dutch and english people don't care about this Jesus bullshit and trade with them
>spanish get mad
>crucify christians because it's ironic
>Spain is not super happy about it
>>827181
Because it fits the common narrative trope of the "underdogs" (even though the Takeda were pretty much equal to the Oda until Nagashino broke them) banding together to take on the strongman. Nobunaga went from a nobody in a insignificant clan to one of powerhouses of the Sengoku period almost overnight after he slapped the shit out of the Imagawa at Okehazama, there really isn't a place to turn him into an underdog unless you focus exclusively on that one event.
>>829673
This is why the Jews fear the samurai.
>>816027
>Christianity was too weird for them.
Look up some videos of the game Bloodborne.
That's basically what Christianity looks like to the Japs.
>>816012
>Why did the Japanese fear Christanity so much
It's the other way around.
Typical Christian characters in Japanese media.
This is a long thread, so I don't know if someone's covered it already, but the Shogunate wanted to repress Catholicism because it nominally professed that all people were equal, which was NOT in line with the Japanese system of government, philosophy, etc. in fact, thats why the Dutch were given special treatment in trading in Japan.
source: [spoiler]high school[/spoiler]
>>837582
The jew really does fear the samurai.
>>837595
>Catholicism because it nominally professed that all people were equal
>Catholicism
>all people
>equal
Just stop. Please.
>>837606
Well, I'm not catholic, so I don't know. Thats just what I learned about Japan's relationship with Catholicism in school.
>>825556
Animism is worship of spirits residing in natural objects or animals. Whether it is a state religion or not is entirely irrelevant, as long as you believe that there is a spiritual essence in non-human entities it's animism
>>837588
>Castlevania
>>837734
Why does Drac look kinda sexy
>>837595
Catholicism doesn't profess that everyone is equal just that they are all under God. Prevalent ideas like Calvinism suggest only a select few will find salvation in heaven because of original sin which all humans bear. Still the Shogunate wouldn't want its subjects to beleive God was the only Lord and disdain the upper classes whose position was more of a ritualised/religious right than one backed by money or power in many cases.
>>837747
Pretty sure that Catholicism believes in a human essence.
>>837736
Because he should.
>>816082
>far superior ships
Nope. Chinese ships completely outclassed their European counterparts in terms of quality and design even well into the 19th century.
>cannons
That was really the only advantage the Europeans had in terms of technology at the time. The Ming copied Portuguese cannons after they sunk the Portuguese fleet in China and drove them out of the country for their rampant practice of piracy and slavery.
>firearms
Japanese firearms outclassed the Portuguese in quality of firearms.
>armor
Armor is created according to the needs and conditions of the environment style of warfare practiced in an area. Saying that a type of armor is objectively better is stupid.
>So Christians were seen as 5th column by Toyotomi and Tokugawa.
A suspicion that only was further enforced by the fact that Jesuits were constantly involving themselves in the local politics and despite the fact that Jesuits served in the courts of local lords were loyal only to the Holy See.
>>816622
Says the faggot who claims that Christianity was super popular in Japan.
>>817330
>>819857
>>Battle of Talas
Small border skrimish between the Tang forces and New arab army. Little to do with religion other than the arab side being a caliphate.
>>Du Huan
A POW who wrote a travelouge about the ME and Europe, that's mostly been lost. Why is this important?
>Yangzhou massacre (760)
Target the wealthy merchant class, not because they were religious
>>838364
>Nope. Chinese ships completely outclassed their European counterparts in terms of quality and design even well into the 19th century.
lolnope.
More like by 1700s.
>>838471
>What is the Keying
The Chinese don't generally give a shit about ships but when they do they produce top-quality vessels.
>>838516
M8, the Chinese Naval Vessel hasn't improved since the early 1600's. More cannon possibly.
Meanwhile the 1700's is the age of the Man-o-War with 80-120 gun niggery. No Asian navy can top that by that point.
What I find more interesting is the shift from the appreciation of the Chinese classics and support for Buddhism of the Tokugawa to the nationalist motivations for state Shinto after the Meiji restoration.
>>837588
To be fair, that's probably meant to evoke the European Catholics who wear the white hoods, rather than the American KKK.
>>838606
It's pretty easy m8: Nationalism.
Also Chinese classics had a hand in the Meiji Restoration. The cunts who started it were the Sonno Movement. A bunch of Daimyo and Samurai steeped in Neo-Confucianism when the Tokugawa's Neo-Confucianist interests backfired on them when Outer Lords used it against them.
>>838371
>putting words in others mouths
>using a question begging epithet
>butthurt
So you don't have any sources?
So I've read that Christians were acting in a way that looked subversive to the Japanese does that mean they were trying to take over Japan for some specific European power or was it just to get converts
>>837558
Whenever Japs want to add spooky factor to entertainment such as anime or vidya they add Abrahamic themes
See:Evangelion
>>839278
Usually the church helps out/Co opted by the Euro power down the line.
Just imagine the emissary to the galactic empire that will invade Earth in x amount of years.
>>839278
Jesuits were pilfering the joint for Rome, like they do everywhere they land.
>>839358
Jesuits main job is to go to non-Christian places and try to convert them. That, and BTFO Protestants with cunning arguments.
That said: they did spearhead the conversion effort in Asia. Successfully.
As per LE SEKRIT AGENTS OF SPAIN, I doubt that. 1) It's an international order, 2) They've been in China for 300 years (1500's-1700's) and didn't take over the land for any European power.
In fact, they were in China as favored courtiers. They integrated themselves into the Confucian-Bureaucratic World and earned their keep by being ambassadors to Europe for China, artists, and CANNONMAKERS (YEAP, TRYING TO WEAKEN LOCAL RULE ALRIGHT) to the Ming & Qing Dynasties. They successfully utilized Confucian-Catholic Syncretism to win over Chinese converts.
In fact, they were only removed by fellow Catholics: Hardliner Catholics who saw what they were doing as pagan-based heresy and tattled to the Pope. The Pope wrote a letter to the Chinese Emperor ordering them to get out. The Qing Emperor got pissed at
1) Being ordered by some foreign dude.
2) Religious riots between Jesuit Converts and
Hardliner Catholics
And ordered ALL Catholics out of China, fucking up 300 years of work.
>>839419
You underestimate how important nationalism (or regionalism) was in the Renaissance church. The Spanish missionaries often competed with Portuguese and so forth
The Jesuits themselves were doing alot more than proselytizing in east asia. They set up the first cannon foundry in east asia for instance. There was also the fact that the papacy and Catholic nations were tied at the hip.
So secret agents, no. But they did have an agenda which was not always in keeping with Japanese interests
>>839463
Just saying the Jesuit's first main job was to convert people.
Maybe they only brought the spics with them in places where they had a chance? (i.e. Philippines). But only went meek and religious when they didn't? (i.e. China)
Spain having a chance in Japan is ridiculous however.
>>839487
Someone once posted something here about a Catholic missionary writng that Japan's armies could be a great asset if they were Christianized.
If anyone remembers and has the source I would love to see it
>>839510
I think I wa sin that thread they though Japanese discipline would be helpful in converting China by christianizing Japan then launching a crusade
>>827111
You can't tame that animal.
>>839522
That was by Luis Frois or Francis Xavier IIRC (Can't be assed to read this whole thread, too busy :( ).
Either way its ridiculous. Jesuits were doing a better job in China than in Japan.
>>830696
That you think Christianity and Colonialism aren't intertwined is very funny.
Christians were a 5th column in Japan planning a takeover. They were defeated.
Christianity is now a dying religion being peddled to third world countries because no one in 1st world countries wants to follow it.
>>839850
That you use an appeal to stone fallacy and question dodge IS very funny
Your question begging epithet isn't a source
Your emotions aren't creditable
Source pls
>>839124
>makes an outlandish claim
>Has no sources
>accuses others of no sources
What's it like being a shit-posting faggot?
>>839850
>Christianity is now a dying religion being peddled to third world countries because no one in 1st world countries wants to follow it.
Protestantism is taking over Catholism in Latin America and spreading like mad in China.
>>816012
It's a subversive ideology used to destabilize and colonialize Japan in the example of China
>>842328
China was never colonized via religion. It took British Merchants & Drugs to do that.
>>816012
That's because western religions used fear and intimidation instead of love and tolerance. Also the power of the church threatened existing forms of government.
>>841074
>Gets mad when I asked for a claim
>Accuses others of making an outlandish claim for asking for sources
>Uses a question begging epithet again along with an appeal to stone and question dodging
>Attempts to use question deflection
wew lad
>What's it like being a shit-posting faggot?
Consult yourself, you seem to be the expert on it
>>843578
So much mental gymnastics you could make a politician blush. I don't have to prove shit the burden is on you.
>Consult yourself, you seem to be the expert on it
I'll defer to the more experienced expert aka you.
>>845403
>Grasping at straws
>hurr burden is on you durr
>how dare you call me out on my bullshit
>Accuses others of mental gymnastics unaware of his Tu quoque
>Still using a question begging epithet and question dodging
>Is overly emotional
lel Seems I hit a nerve
How does this make you feel?
>I'll defer to the more experienced expert aka you.
I could never take your crown
You even admit you know what makes one a "experienced expert" something only an expert would know aka you
Many Christians were killed in the Nagasaki bombing.
>>843450
>because western religions used fear and intimidation instead of love and tolerance.
Now this is just bullshit.
It was a rivalling faith with an alien thoughtpattern to their worldview, its influence was equated to the one of foreigners of whom island nations are often quiet sceptical as you pointed out in the end.
But dont pretend as if other religions, with some gay exceptions such as jainism, did not use fear of authority in order to establish themselves over generations.
Not lighting incense for your ancestory under the guidance of your local priest would anger the kami due to neglect. (fear)
Being neglected by the Kami is to be neglected by society (intimidation)
Also this:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitobashira
Just because something is not abrahamic does not mean it is a hippie commune.
>>816012
because Christian is Slave trader.
WHY gaijin don't know own history?
>>846053
Again with the mental gymnastics and posturing, you got fucking called out on spewing nonsense and you act like a bitch because you can't even defend your own assertions with any citations, despite challenging others to do the same. You're neither clever nor funny trying to rip off my riposte in a weak "I know you are but what am I" comeback, go shit-post elsewhere like /b/ where they think your pedantic schoolyard antics are funny.
Japan had banned slavery from ancient times.
However, merchants in cooperation with missionaries of Catholic, had been involved in slave trade at Japan.
They had enslaved a lot of Japanese.
So Hideyoshi Toyotomi banned the Catholic missionary,and other than Protestant were expelled.
Then Catholic became enemy of Japan Until the Meiji era.
>>848570
>Again with the mental gymnastics and posturing
oh, irony
>you got fucking called out on spewing nonsense and you act like a bitch because you can't even defend your own assertions with any citations,
pls point out where this happened
I'll wait
>You're neither clever nor funny trying to rip off my riposte in a weak "I know you are but what am I" comeback, go shit-post elsewhere like /b/ where they think your pedantic schoolyard antics are funny.
Not my fault you are too autistic to prove anything you say and throw a tantrum like a child.
I bet you walked around you room punching the air. your impotent rage doesn't prove anything
So if you're done with your question begging epithet and appeal to stone fallacy
Stay mad and Sources pls
>>848570
>grasping at straws: the post
>>849876
*you're*
>>849876
>>849889
>pls point out where this happened
So you're gonna backpedal when all your posts are clearly visible for everyone to see, how stupid are you? Okay that basically proves you actually don't give a fuck about the truth and you wanna fight me simply because your ego won't allow you to back down.
>I bet you walked around you room punching the air. your impotent rage doesn't prove anything
>projecting this hard
You've got nothing left to say other than your "I know you are but what am I" comebacks and stating fallacies from a wikipedia page. Not only are fucking stupid you're also boring as well.
>>850002
>So you're gonna backpedal when all your posts are clearly visible for everyone to see, how stupid are you?
Why are you avoiding the question?
Can you not prove even this?
You made a assertion
burden of proof
phrase of burden
1.
the obligation to prove one's assertion.
It's strange you accuse me of what you are doing.
Why would this be?
>Okay that basically proves you actually don't give a fuck about the truth and you wanna fight me simply because your ego won't allow you to back down.
Nice question begging epithet and appeal to stone fallacy again
>projecting this hard
Again, ironic
>You've got nothing left to say other than your "I know you are but what am I" comebacks and stating fallacies from a wikipedia page. Not only are fucking stupid you're also boring as well.
Thats funny coming from you, as instead of trying to prove me wrong and show a source you instead attack me aka nice ad hominem
Why cant you prove anything you say?
Is it that hard?
>>850002
Also you have no clue what backpedal means
>back-pedal
[bak-ped-l]
>1.to retard the forward motion by pressing backward on the pedal, especially of a bicycle with coaster brakes.
>2.to retreat from or reverse one's previous stand on any matter; shift ground
I'd like for you to point out where this happened too
Try to keep your emotions out of it
>>850080
You're running in circles, intellectual dishonesty doesn't warrant any kind of honesty.
It's okay I understand you have a fragile ego and you're doing everything you can to protect it. If you make an assertion that the Japanese liked Christianity then challenge anyone who says otherwise with "muh citations" while providing nothing of your own, you're asking for trouble. So either put up or shut the fuck up about the topic.
>>850147
>You're running in circles, intellectual dishonesty doesn't warrant any kind of honesty.
Avoiding the question again and using appeal to stone fallacy?
This is getting sad
Why cant you back up anything you say?
After all, it should be obvious like you say
So prove it
>It's okay I understand you have a fragile ego and you're doing everything you can to protect it. If you make an assertion that the Japanese liked Christianity then challenge anyone who says otherwise with "muh citations" while providing nothing of your own, you're asking for trouble. So either put up or shut the fuck up about the topic
And to think you accused me of projection lol
>If you make an assertion that the Japanese liked Christianity then challenge anyone who says otherwise with "muh citations" while providing nothing of your own, you're asking for trouble.
My first post in this thread was asking for a source which set off your autism as evident by your post.
I like how you make accusations then get mad when I ask you to back them up
If you like point out who you think I am and ill screenshot so you know who I am
When I asked you proof or sources you throw a tantrum like a child
Not a very convincing argument
>So either put up or shut the fuck up about the topic.
Okay, provide proof of anything you said
Again, try not to use your emotions
>>850201
The level of delusion in your post is baffling, I would have an easier time talking to an ISIS fanatic about reason and logic then I would with you. I'm done believe what you want and what ever helps you sleep at night.
>>850254
>The level of delusion in your post is baffling
projecting again?
You are the one avoiding answering my question and not providing proof of anything you say
Instead you attack me and hope I'll give up.
Point out where in my post where the delusion is pls
>I would have an easier time talking to an ISIS fanatic about reason and logic then I would with you. I'm done believe what you want and what ever helps you sleep at night.
Me asking for a source is like isis?
Nice reasoning there champ
like I said before "Childish"
>I'm done believe what you want and what ever helps you sleep at night.
So you cant prove what you said and say "I'm leaving now so I win"?
Nice appeal to stone fallacy
I also like how last post was bait to you
Can you point out how it was bait?
>>838364
>Japanese firearms outclassed the Portuguese in quality of firearms.
The only thing I can find on pre-European trade is something called a Teppo. Which is literally a hand-cannon made of iron wrapped with a cloth. In reality, the Japanese found a couple of ship wrecked Portuguese and decided to buy some of their matchlock rifles.
>Armor is created according to the needs and conditions of the environment style of warfare practiced in an area. Saying that a type of armor is objectively better is stupid.
So, you're saying that the Lorica Segmentata works just as well as Gothic plate armour? And that literal bark strapped to you by some leather is just as "good" as the Linothorax? Stop talking out of your ass. Everything is inferior and superior to something else, there are no exceptions.
>Nope. Chinese ships completely outclassed their European counterparts in terms of quality and design even well into the 19th century.
Debatable, the Chinese Junks were truly works of art and they did have competent designers, but European ships are nothing to laugh about. But the 1700s, when the Ship of the Line was introduced, was when Europe surpassed the Chinese ships to the point of no contest.
>A suspicion that only was further enforced by the fact that Jesuits were constantly involving themselves in the local politics and despite the fact that Jesuits served in the courts of local lords were loyal only to the Holy See.
I agree that Jesuits are pretty spergy with their methods. Really, the Jesuits did some really dumb shit, like that time they started an inquisition in India for no real reason other than "NUH-UH, YOUR ANCESTORS MEAN YOU'RE NOT A REAL CATHOLIC"
>>850373
>The only thing I can find on pre-European trade is something called a Teppo. Which is literally a hand-cannon made of iron wrapped with a cloth. In reality, the Japanese found a couple of ship wrecked Portuguese and decided to buy some of their matchlock rifles.
I'm talking about after they bought the Portuguese guns and started producing their own. The quality of Japanese matchlocks was well known the region, surpassing both their Chinese and Portuguese counterparts.
>Everything is inferior and superior to something else, there are no exceptions.
Technology is not a series of progressions, life is not a game of Civ. Technology is adaptive and military technology is a perfect example of this nature. A good example is how the conquistadors virtually abandoned the use of plate chest armor in the Americas because the obsidian weapons used by the indigenous civilizations and tribes easily punched through them, instead they resorted to using leather which could absorb the blows of obsidian blades and it was more favorable to the humid tropical climate. Really if you think that a modern ballistic vest can stop a sword or axe blow you're kidding yourself.
>But the 1700s, when the Ship of the Line was introduced, was when Europe surpassed the Chinese ships to the point of no contest.
Well of course by that time naval technology in the West had surpassed any of that in Asia because of the heavy reliance on ocean going trades with overseas colonies but the fact is that Chinese ships were still top notch and traditional Chinese ship-building techniques produced high-quality ocean going vessels as proven by modern replicas.
>I agree that Jesuits are pretty spergy with their methods.
It's to be expected from an organization that's stretched all the the world without the convenience of modern communication methods.
>>816012
Fundamentalism is not about religion, but about power. Christianity of the era was thus a threat to the state's power.
...and then there's the whole cultural identity thing.
Not that Buddhism didn't occasionally get the same treatment for similar reasons. The Mononobe and Nakatomi clan killed a whole lotta Buddhists. The Meiji period saw a whole lotta defrocking and temple closures as well - though some of that was pure politics - monasteries housing enemies of the government and the like.
The reason is that about 50 million japanese was enslaved.
I'd like to be taoist
They literally believe having sex with adolescent girls replenishes your lifeforce and rejuvenates you
>>850548
>A good example is how the conquistadors virtually abandoned the use of plate chest armor in the Americas because the obsidian weapons used by the indigenous civilizations and tribes easily punched through them
Yeah i'm going to need a source on that
>>850373
>But the 1700s, when the Ship of the Line was introduced, was when Europe surpassed the Chinese ships to the point of no contest.
And yet in the 1800's they were getting their asses handed to them by Chinese pirates, lead by a woman no less.
Getting their ass handed to them so badly, that they petitioned the Chinese government to offer them all amnesty.
Slightly better tech never guarantees a win - usually takes a leap of centuries before it even becomes a primary factor.
>>851839
Do you even understand how hegemony works? Getting attacked by pirates once in a while didn't stop European naval power from being the most significant force in the history of the planet.
>>851947
It did for a near half century in China.
>>851922
>Shut up Perry.
>>851956
You must not understand how "being the most significant force in the history of the planet" works. Your claim is based on a failure to appreciate Western martial arts for what they are: the ultimate in societal discipline.
>>851922
>Shut up Perry. If you don't have food you must be poor. If America had Buddha or the gods, then you would have a good harvest. But since you don't, you must depend on piracy and steal your food.
America BTFO
>>851922
Link to the rest? This is some hilarious shit.
>>851922
Ever since then, America has plotted its revenge against the Japs. Organizing every political machination and war up to December 7th, 1941 ...
>>851922
Sauce please.
>>851976
>>852842
http://www.slideshare.net/consignee/recordid19shakingupjapan1855catfishprints
>>851922
NIPPON BANZAI
WAITTO PIGGU GO HOMMU
>>852890
Thankee
If i wanted to learn about Japan's history, where would be a good place to start in general?
I've been thinking about going to uni to study it's language and history since it interests me but at the same time I'm kind of worried about the job prospects I'd have with that. Still a few months to think of it atleast..
>>816012
>Why did the Japanese fear Christanity so much and repressed it as a foreign religion, when Buddhism and Taoism are also foreign religions but didn't get the same treatment?
Buddhism and Taoism didn't require you to have fealty to a foreigner that exceeded that of the emperor and shogun especially considering that those foreigners were craving up the rest of Asia.
Then you add that to the fact that Christians initially lied to the Japanese and claimed that Jesus was an incarnation of the Buddha so that they wouldnt arouse suspicion and you can see why the Japanese would see them as subversives
>>816552
>That's a loaded question. The Japanese people actually liked Christianity, especially the warrior class. The leaders of Japan didn't like it though because Christianity teaches that each person has value and their master shouldn't be earthly. Obviously, that goes against the rule of the daimyo who are earthly.
>No earthly masters
>Your loyalty belongs to the Pope but thats totally different because his christs representative
>>853158
t, Abrahamaboo
>>853107
Just minor or double major. Why do people make their lives so hard?
