Can somebody give me an in-depth explanation as to why the gooks got their shit pushed in so hard?
Also, WW2 thread
>>940743
America, since like 1812, realized how important a navy was, and pretty much everyone in charge up until 1941 had worked diligently to make sure it was the best navy ever.
Teddy Roosevelt, who wrote a history of the war of 1812, was assigned to the navy department where he autistically made sure it was the best navy possible. His fifth cousin, FDR, was also in the navy department in WW1 and made sure the navy grew into the best one on earth, even better than Britains ever hoped to be.
So by the time Japan had done pearl harbor, FDR wasnt bullshitting when he said they had awakon a sleeping giant. Even they knew it. That was the whole point of pearl harbor anyway, to knock out the US navy because they knew they didnt stand a chance against it. Also, the marine corps were the most brutal grunts of the war and the whole time you had scientist working on the bomb.
tl;dr-muh navy is why the US crushed Japan
>>940820
Did Pearl Harbor fail, or was it just not enough?
>>940861
It was marginal success. It sank 2 or 3 destroyers I think, and took one out of operation for the rest of the war but it wasn't enough. The usa didn't keep all their ships in one harbor. That's why usa went out and took over Guam and the Philippeans, to put naval bases on their islands.
Industry. Japan simply didn't have enough manpower or resources, even in it's new empire, to support a war against the US, let alone against the rest of ABDA and China on multiple fronts. Consider the following, if the IJN had magically sunk the entire US Navy at Pearl Harbor, and hadn't lost a single ship over the next 2 and a half years, they still wouldn't be able to match the USN on equal terms at the Philippine Sea. And of course, you have less grand fuck-ups like Japan not really having an overarching war plan, getting things like dithering around in the Solomans and the Indian Ocean Raid.
tl;dr America in a truly warlike state is terrifying.
>>940861
The Japanese failed to completely demolish the US Navy at that time. They really could have. When all was said and done, only the Arizona was left on the bottom of the sea.
>>940861
It was like hitting a bee hive with a bat. You kill some bees yes, but if you dont kill them all(I.e the carriers that survived the attack), they will come fuck you good.
>>940861
>Did Pearl Harbor fail
yes. The whole point was to completely cripple the US NAvy to the point where they would have to spend a bunch of time building up their navy to even sort of capable tier, while Japan was free to just slap everyone in asias shit.
The day of Pearl Harbor of pearl harbor, they also invaded and conquered Hong Kong, Indonesia, and The Phillipines, along with some other little islands. It was supposed to be this huge sneak attack that completely flipped the US upside down to where within one day, they went from being able to beat Japan to never even having a chance. The US navy was destroyed and they had already had too much of a solid foot hold to be pushed out anyway. So in that sense, it was a failure
They also were banking on all the shit going on in Europe, hoping everyone would be too busy with uncle adolf to even bother and they were right for the most part.
The biggest factor was that the US economy was just much larger than Japans. Also, because East Asia was so under developed at that point, their conquests didn't help Japanese output as much as it could have.
The Japs also lost the technological development game. While they had a superior fighter at the start of the war, they didn't keep up with American innovations in aircraft design. They also didn't use radar on their ships.
Related to this was their inability to:
1. Get encryption technology the US couldn't crack
2. Realize the US was intercepting their messages.
The other big factor is that their military leadership was shit. Commanders ordering suicide charges instead of keeping their men alive to harass the enemy, naval officers constantly lying about their own losses and the damage they inflicted on the enemy.
Read the Rising Sun: Decline and Fall of the Japanese Empire. It is crazy how many times Jap officers lied about sinking carriers or transports, only to let other forces get jumped by men or planes they didn't expect to be there.
>>940743
The Japanese were outbuilt roughly 8:1 by what the Americans committed to the PTO alone, nevermind everyone else they were fighting. Their doctrines and equipment were antiquated, and really only suitable for campaigning in places like China.
>>940861
There was no way it could ever have been enough. Pearl Harbor was generally home to 2 carriers, 8 battleships, 8 cruisers, and a bunch of little ships, destroyers, minelayers, etc. Even if the Japs had somehow wiped out every single one of them, the U.S. would retain 5/7 of their carrier force, 1/2 of their battleship force, and about 4/5 of their cruiser force, and would rapidly erase any deficiencies since again, building 8 ships for every one the Japanese make.
>>940743
Also, a common misconception is that Kamakazi pilots were used in Pearl Harbor, but they didnt start using suicide bombers until 1944 when they were desperate during the battle of Leyte, which is the largest navel battle ever.
>>940886
>>940889
>>940895
>>940897
>>940914
>>940934
>>940935
So, by numbers, the Japanese had no real chance of defeating the Americans in a large-scale naval war. Why did they attack in the first place, then? I've heard it was because the US stopped selling them oil, but surely they could've found a new source?
Also, assuming the Japanese knew they could never advance against the America in a drawn out conflict, did they have some sort of defensive plan to at least hold the US at bay while they continued expansion?
>>941091
>did they have some sort of defensive plan to at least hold the US at bay while they continued expansion?
Torwards the end, they used the whole "kill as many of them as possible because westerners cant stand death" shit you see in modern islamic groups. I think its just this deep seated view of war and death between easterners and westerners.
There was no doubt the US could out produce them, but would the US be willing to sacrifice so many young men? I think thats what they were banking on
>>941091
There isn't a lot of oil that's easily accessible from Japan, and with pretty much the rest of the world at war, not too many people were interested in selling.
There was one pretty significant source in their proverbial backyard though, the Dutch East Indies, now Indonesia. However, FDR had publicly guaranteed the safety of Dutch colonial possessions, and the Japanese at the very least took him seriously.
The idea was to hit the U.S. real good, and simultaneously invade the NEI. They mistakenly figured by the time that the U.S. got onto a strong enough footing to beat them up, they could do some kind of peace with honor. Ironically, Pearl Harbor's perceived perfidy killed any chance of that ever happening.
>>941091
Yamamoto even said "I can hold the us off for 6 months." He was pretty much right on the money. They were honestly banking on crushing the entire US fleet, taking the Philippines and the us being in a shit recession that the US wouldn't want to fight back. Japan didn't plan on invading the USA, they just wanted the USA to let them have oil and such again.
>>941110
>>941123
>>941124
Thanks, my nigs
>>941091
Yes the US embargoed them and stopped selling them oil but inevitably japan was going to go to war anyway as they had ambitions to control trade in the pacific which is why they allied with italy and germany on the first place
>>941222
Honestly this, Even back in 1910 TR knew we were gonna go to war with Japan sooner rather than later.
>>940861
It didnt get any carriers, and carriers were what mattered
>>940743
you know how whenever hulk hogan was kicking ass, his opponent would sneak up on him with a chair and hope they could quickly just knock him out, but the chair doesnt knock him out, and he just hulks up instead and beats the shit out of them before dropping the atomic leg on them and getting that 3 count?
Thats the pacific theater in a nutshell
>>940743
It's difficult to win a war when yourr ebnemy has more troops, better equipment, better logistics, and a better command structure than you.
>>941317
Kek
>>940743
>Can somebody give me an in-depth explanation as to why the gooks got their shit pushed in so hard?
>Half the IJA along with half of Jap supply stuck in the quagmire that was China
>Failed to accomplish goals at Pearl Harbor by only destroying the BB fleet instead of the full PAC fleet that was stationed there less than a week before which meant U.S. could counter-attack instantly instead of after several months
>Battle of Coral Sea meant Japs were down two extremely important carriers for Midway
>Battle of Midway btfo entire Jap PAC fleet and never recovered
>Failed to hold Guadalcanal which meant Australia was free to be resupplied by the U.S. and also granted the U.S. basing/logistics which was pivotal for island hopping campaign since the closest alternative port would be Hawaii, weeks away from Jap holdings
Every thing after this was pretty well worthless.
