Honestly, who was the best US president, solely looking at what their accomplishments during the presidency?
How does Obama stand up to the rest of them?
Ike.
Nixon was better than he's rated as, his actions in international relations were some of the best any president ever managed. But yeah Watergate kind of fucked it all up and rightly so.
I guess it's gonna be our most regular thread.
>>46329
>best
value judgement, not history.
Lincoln
I'd rate Jefferson, Wilson, and Eisenhower near the top.
>>46471
Nixon was really on track to be a strong contender for #1.
>>46329
I honestly think that Eisenhower, and Jackson were some of the best.
JFK is overrated.
>>46329
Jimmy Carter desu
>>47153
Epic! +1
Woodrow Wilson.
>>46329
FDR
Ike. Operation Overlord, motherfucker.
>>46329
God tier
>Washington
>Madison
>Jackson
>Polk
>Cleveland
>Theodore Roosevelt
>Truman
>Eisenhower
>Nixon
>Reagan
Hall of shame
>Lincoln
>Grant
>Wilson
>Carter
>LBJ
>Kennedy
>Clinton
>Obama
>>47127
JFK got us to the moon tbqh
>>47345
>hall of shame
>no Dubya
>>47472
whoops, forgot him by accident man
>>47345
>Lincoln
What?
>>47559
>trusting the Dishonest Abe
Guy started the most destructive war in American history on American soil against Americans. I think the Fort Sumter situation could have been handled better, as all it did was lead to more secession. Also suspended Habeas corpus and made the U.S. more authoritarian. Impressing immigrants,silencing copperheads and what not.
He was a great president from a power point of view, but started a horrible drift in American politics.
>>47839
>I think the Fort Sumter situation could have been handled better,
By bending over to the Confederacy in a gutless display of moral cowardice? Sure.
>Impressing immigrants,silencing copperheads and what not.
Boo hoo, compare that with today. At least he won the war.
>>47839
>started
niceme.me
>>46329
I've always been a big fan of Wilson, Roosevelt (both), Clinton, and Jefferson. Reagan is probably the worst president in living memory by a fucking mile. Andrew Jackson is overrated as well. Obama is slightly above average in my book, wouldn't be notable at all.
>>47345
I don't think you could be any more obvious that you are a hardcore Republican.
>>46329
Georgie b. Jr. Got that sonuvabitch that tried to kill his daddy. Good family values makes a good leader. Also we can't let third worlders think they can get to us without consequences. Even trying is bad enough for death.
>>47999
>Obama
>slightly above average
>>47999
> Andrew Jackson is overrated as well.
Jackson created the Democratic party and essentially set the stage for all of American politics up until the civil war.
>>46329
Where the hell are the FRD fans at? New Deal? Winning THE war and turning us from a destitute nation of hobos into an industrial colossus?
FDR, only fedora-tier libertarians deny this.
Obama is an innocuous corporate shill and is pretty much middle of the pack I guess, maybe a little worse than average for refusing to prosecute the bankers.
>>47999
How could you hate Reagan but like Clinton?
>>48180
> turning us from a destitute nation of hobos into an industrial colossus?
America was the world's largest manufacturer before even WW1. We were already an "industrial colossus".
>>48158
>Destroyed National Bank
>caused panic
>fucked over Indians for literally no reason
>literally started the spoils system
Not to mention he killed a guy during a duel when he already won. Guy's a total shit, both as a politician, and as a person.
>>47274
Popularity is not how you decide what is right. He also won two elections so it cannot have been that unpopular.
>>48278
Sure, but that didn't last for long given the crash of the 20s. He's the one who made it sustainable again.
>>46329
My vote goes to polk.
Completed everything he wanted to in one term.
>>48300
He was so overwhelmingly popular that his policies became the policies of the democratic party.
He WAS the democratic party. To have so profoundly influenced the entire country's political perspective for decades after relinquishing power is an achievement of popularity and force of will that is nothing short of exceptional.
>>48266
>Iran Contra
>stole from Social Security
>tax cuts for the rich
A M N E S T Y for illegals
Also I love what he did to the national debt (increased it a shit ton)
I actually can't think of a wore president.
>>46329
Teddy Roosevelt should be a pretty strong contender.
>>47925
Read my post, I said he was a great president from a power point of view; but he started a drift that leads into what you consider horrible today. He started that trend.
Fort Sumter pushed several more states into secession. I feel he could have done better there without killing millions of Americans and wrecking the entire infrastructure of the country.
>>47975
He had his part to play mate. The war was defensive on the Southern side. I also don't consider Fort Sumter a battle, It was b8 the CSA took.
>>48380
He was populist as fuck, I'll give you that. The common man at the time loved him, because he was one of their buddies. It caused a total shift from the say, Jeffersonian type of president, ie intellectual, to candidates that had to rely on pandering to the lower class to look like "just an average guy." He was 100% a marker in a shift in US politics, but it isn't necessarily a good thing.
>>47345
>kennedy
>hall of shame
>>46329
In terms of advancing the country and being a net benefit to the world, this guy, Lincoln, and FDR easily.
Theodore Roosevelt
>>48234
My beef with FDR was that he trusted the Soviets too much. He should have let the soviets get hit more so we could have had a more independent eastern Europe. Luckily Truman saved the situation and stopped the soviets from expanding.
>>48300
Banks suck man. Emperor Jackson was great.
>>48338
my nigga
>>48478
Other than memes, what good did Kennedy actually do?
>>48478
Please do not post former class-a war criminals on /his/.
>>48482
>not including Wilson
Why?
>>46329
What was the first George Bush like? What the fuck did he accomplish? In my head it goes Reagan to Clinton because I forget Bush existed.
>>48618
Convince me his foreign policy was anything but total garbage.
>>48686
>won WW1
>could have prevented WW2 if Congress wasn't shit
>>48714
>wanting to join the league of shit
the UN sucks too
>>48714
>won WW1
Had absolutely nothing to do with him. He refused to prepare the US for war at all to play nice with Germany and avoid war. Then suddenly he became convinced we had a moral obligation to join and threw a nation with almost no army or military industry into war. The only good thing he did was give Pershing the ability to run the war as he saw fit.
>>47345
>not including Buchanan in the hall of shame
>>48902
thank you, fucking horrible president.
>>48867
>wanted to avoid war is a bad thing
We had a moral obligation to join when the Germans killed US civilians, yes.
>>49025
>wanted to avoid war is a bad thing
Of course it was, the US intervening in WWI earlier could've saved millions of lives. You can keep you isolationist principles.
>>46329
Fuck the banks, fuck all of them. Also I guarantee no president has had a more based pet, or a big ass wheel of cheese.
>>47288
Fuck you
>>48685
Just an average idiot that expanded the debt a bit.
>>48300
>implying destroying the bank was a bad thing
>implying he caused the panic
The panic was the result of inflationary policies set in place by Biddle in order to force Jackson to keep the bank alive. I won't defend the other two actions however killing the Bank was just about the only good thing AJ did.
The one and only
>>46329
Eisenhower
Interstate highway, public works, and payment of debt.
Jackson by far
>>49666
>The panic was the result of inflationary policies set in place by Biddle
Not at all.There were many 'causes' of the panic 1837 and the panic of 1839. One was Jackson's 'specie exchange' policy which made it so the government would only accept purchases of large tracts of public land in the form of hard specie (gold and silver) and not bank notes. Not only did this drain the economy of specie, but it undermined the trust people had in back notes, this combined with a recall of loans made to Americans by GB banks caused a massive outflow of specie from America which caused many banks to go on runs and eventually close down.
>>49640
Why was his family in the White House twice? Who do you have to know to get these dumbfucks in there
>>49496
>millions of lives
[citation needed]
It isn't being isolationist as much of wanting to involve a whole country in a war that frankly, didn't concern them. Allies helping allies is literally what started WW1, and WW (president) wanted to not have America follow suit into that. It was only after Germany blatantly caused the deaths of over 100 US citizens that they decided to act.
>>49705
jefferson is literally the best person in american politics
>>50000
>It was only after Germany blatantly caused the deaths of over 100 US citizens that they decided to act.
Wasn't the Lusitania pretty transparently bait? I think they found it really was carrying weapons, and in waters it knew it shouldn't have been in.
>>50060
Hamilton disagrees.
>>50060
>I think this is the most extraordinary collection of talent, of human knowledge, that has ever been gathered together at the White House, with the possible exception of when Thomas Jefferson dined alone.
>>50000
>dat 50,000th post
>>50093
Hamilton and Jefferson reconciled in their latter years and on his deathbed he declared that Jefferson yet lived (not knowing he died a couple days earlier).
The answer is somebody on Mt. Rushmore. In the current day and age, we could learn the most from Teddy.
>>50093
Well Hamilton was a giant fucking faggot
>>50126
That was Jefferson and Adams friendo
>>50000
>[citation needed]
Are you serious? The logic is simple, the US joins the war sooner, the Allies therefore win sooner, and therefore the death count drops.
>>50086
Saying the US was neutral before April 6, 1917 is like saying the US was neutral before Pearl Harbour, complete nonsense. We sold to both sides but a blind eye was turned to the fact that 5-6 times more stuff was sold to the Allies. In 1916 the Brits got 60% of their munitions from the US.
>>50060
>implying hamilton didn't own his bitch ass at every turn
Hamilton greatest founding father
>>50273
This. Only lolbertarian manchildren can't see Hamilton was right. If Jefferson had his way we'd be an agrarian backward in the sphere of influence of some European nation or another.
>>46329
>Best
Lincoln above all for keeping the Union together during a state of rebellion. Without Lincoln I'm honestly not sure if America would be in the state it is today- it probably would have fractured further when the South was beaten and leading even more future conflicts.
Abe is an example of the right man born for the right time for the right job who died too soon. The South would have been better off had he been able to institute his programs for rehabilitation of the traitor states instead of oppressing them even more.
>How does Obama compare
Literally who the president. Honestly guys compared to the past Obama isn't that good or that bad. He's just as "meh" as shit gets. The only reason why he won't be forgotten like many other Presidents is because he's half black.
Jefferson had a mixed record as an executive.
The economy floundered horribly in response to Jefferson's attempt at 'economic warfare' by suspending American trade in an attempt to bring GB to the negotiating table.
>>50353
federalist pls
>>48685
Meme president. He was the vice president for Reagan, so everyone that supported Reagan at the time (ie the whole country) voted for him. In a famous speech claimed to no new taxes. And then he raised taxes. That's about it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZtaZTEO3jA
>>46471
This. Check Nixon's 2nd presidential election results. That's the definition of rape.
>>50178
Nevermind.
Maybe Hamilton was just a faggot.
>>48300
>>Destroyed National Bank
that is the highlight of his presidency
>>caused panic
Not his fault
>>fucked over Indians for literally no reason
fuck indians, Justice Marshall is a faggot
>>literally started the spoils system
and?
>>50880
>>Epich tier
>>>Jackson
Only good thing he ever did was kill the bank, other than that he just fucked Indians for no reason, ignored the balance of power, and initiated cancerous populist politics.
>>48109
How so? Plenty of these Presidents held characteristics Republicans didn't have. Washington was a Federalist, and Jackson was the people's president.
>>49970
Regardless advocating for the use of sound money over that of depreciating paper money was the right thing to do even if it had hurt a little years later
>>48902
Agreed.
>>50932
>prevented a early secessionist movement
>removed savage indians
>won the battle of New Orleans
>in many duels
Most based pres m8.
Didn't give a fuck about Marshall and his abusive court system.
I think Marbury vs Madison was a mistake
>>50000
We're growing fast boys
I see Obama as a lesser George Bush. If he has done something diabolically awful to America like Fox News makes it out to be, I havent noticed it. Instead, he's done hundreds of small things that add up to a whole of shittiness. He just sat back on his back porch for 8 years while America falls apart because of all of Bush's policies, and didnt lift a finger to solve one issue (unless someone else pushed him into doing it).
Leftists claim he is the greatest thing ever, right wingers claim that he was the worst thing that happened. I just see him as mediocre who put no effort into fixing anything.
>>50831
>meme president
Hold up friend. Had it not been for the most popular third party candidate since Teddy Roosevelt, he might have easily slid into a second term.
Bush Sr. wasn't terrible. He had a strong foreign policy and arguably won some acclaim with how he handled the whole Iraq thing. Ross Perot really fucked his shit up.
Legendary Tier:
Jefferson
Washington
Great:
Nixon
Eisenhower
Jackson
Surprisingly good:
GHW Bush
Really shit:
Wilson
FDR (that war was unnecessary DESU senpai)
Obama?
He will be known for being the first black president and having a shit foreign policy.
The neo-con presidents:
Clinton 1
Bush 2
Obama
and Hillary Clinton should she win
all have the same neo-cons advising them.
Their foreign policies are all variations of the same theme.
>>51010
>I think Marbury vs Madison was a mistake
It was
>>50831
>MUH TAXES
Do Americans care about literally anything else?
>>51010
>won the battle of new orleans
>duels
We ain't taking non-presidential stuff into account, if we did Jefferson and Roosevelt would be eternal don't-even-try God tier.
>marbury madison
Literally in the Constitution.
>>51099
Do you know why your list is shit? Judging a presidential candidate before she even is elected/done anything as president. Fuck off.
Also
>Jefferson
>good president
epic meme, literally name one thing he did that wasn't absolute shit. That's right, nothing. You can't expect shit from a frenchophilic shit.
>>51090
Perhaps he wasnt bad, I just dont see anything distinguishing about him outside of that memorable sound bite. To me he was an extension of Reagan, which depending on your point of view of things could be a good or bad thing.
>>50831
It should cut to the speech where he raised taxes. An old TV series in my country did this when they covered the year of his election. Keks were had.
>prevented nuclear armagedon
>established peace corps
>catholic
>set the goal to send the man to the moon
>redirected the cold war to the space race to avoid unecessary death of other people and make the socialism-capitalism dispute actually be good for society
>egypt project. if continued by later administrations, would have prevented the middle east from being the hell hole we know.
>believed in tax cuts
>moved foward several civil rights
JFK is based. one of the few democrats worthy of admiration.
>>51141
>Roosevelt
Traitor to the american people and ruined the Republic
>>51204
Louisiana purchase.
>>51214
Could you imagine a modern democrat saying and meaning anything like the quote in your pic?
>>51261
No and thats why they suck mostly
>>51229
Fair point, though I would argue that it would have happened with anyone in the president's seat.
>>51261
Ask not for taxes you should pay, but for how many gimmiedats you should get. Vote for me, Sander 2016
Top 5
1. Jefferson
2. Washington
3. Jackson
4. FDR
5. Nixon
>>51300
It would have, but what made it a good decision by Jefferson is that he agonized endlessly over whether he actually had the power to make the purchase after making it because the deal was an no-brainer.
>>51330
>4. FDR
Bottom 5
Jackson's 'killing of the bank' was more party politics than it was sound policy.
The 2nd BUS was ultimately a stabilizing for the young republic and the US was never for a moment better off without it. It didn't stop the circulation of worthless paper currency being printed by local banks. It didn't stop the reckless speculation of the time. What it did do was stimulate partisan policies by replacing the stolid BUS with a litany of "pet banks" chosen for their loyalty to the incumbent party. The US lost the ability to assuage the swings of the business cycle with sound monetary policy and gained nothing by Jackson's rash and peculiar crusade.
>>51371
His policies were necessary at the time and built our nation into a superpower. Sometimes you need to make the hard choices.
>>46329
Washington.
1. There are no prior presidents to compare to.
2. He set the standard for the Presidency.
>>51300
True as Monroe pretty well forced his hand. A lot of people don't know this but Monroe's daughter became great friends with Naopleon's step daughter and this created a great friendship between Napoleon's family and Monroe's. Due to this relationship it was Monroe that basically conducted the deal. He borrowed several million pounds from a bank in England in order to pay a small part of the price so the deal could be secured all before even telling TJ.
>>51087
Kinda hard to fix shit when everyone in the Senate and HoR who doesn't have a D after their name votes against you just for the sake of voting against you. It sucks to be him, but I don't give him any points for potentially doing something.
>>51443
>he thinks that the US was ever a republic
laughinggirls.jpg
>>51416
Yeah he cemented us as an empire. An evil, corrupt empire.
>>51486
The U.S. was founded as a constitutional republic you dipshit.
>>51486
He practically enslaved the lower classes of the American system
>>51508
Collapse soon brother
>abraham lincoln frees the slaves and we lost color for the next 100 years
damn
>>51508
So you would just take Pearl Harbor, and turn the other cheek? The polio president did what he had to do.
>>51560
HE FUCKING CAUSED PEARL HARBOR.
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/united-states-freezes-japanese-assets
>>51585
>the militant japanese are threatening our interests in the pacific
>i know, let's keep helping them do it
>>51612
The Japanese weren't going to lay on a finger on us, they knew better. FDR forced their hand
>>51528
>implying
So who could vote again? Landowning white males. Yeah, real nice republic. The word you are looking for is oligarchy.
>>47345
>God tier
>>Reagan
I havent decided if I like or dislike Woodrow Wilson yet, but I will say that he was the sexiest president.
>>51644
FDR nipped them in the bud is more like it.
>>51644
And I suppose you'll just let them take Manchuria without lending a hand to China.
>>51648
>Landowning
I.E. people with a stake in the country.
>White
Indians, see above. Nigs, see above to a lesser degree.
>Males
Women couldn't own property so it's just another way to say landowners.
>>51560
>>51585
http://www.thenewamerican.com/culture/history/item/4740-pearl-harbor-hawaii-was-surprised-fdr-was-not
he also knew about it.
>>51612
What interests? We had been fucking china for resources for the last 50 years.
>>51648
>So who could vote again? Landowning white males. Yeah, real nice republic
And who were the most educated and most active people in society when it was founded? White landowning males should be the only people to vote.
>>51664
He caused WW2.
>>51648
Republic ≠Democracy
Democracy is a sham.
>>51664
forgot pic
>>46471
Nixon had some very questionable foreign policy though
>>51694
WW causing WW2 is blaming him for the incompetence of the Congress he was unfortunate enough to have at the time.
And it really doesn't help that only white, landowning males were allowed to be educated and be politically/economically active. That's pretty circular reasoning.
>>51694
>White landowning males should be the only people to vote.
Should have been*. Nowadays I'd go with resident, literate males, as homeownership is a stupid idea economically, and nearly impossible in the city.
>>47839
ah yes, fort Sumter and the legend of the non-belligerent cannonballs that it provoked
>>48388
>GWB
>not everything Reagan and worse
>>51141
we care about liberty and the amount of guns we can own
Didn't teddy become pres as an independent?
That fact alone pretty much makes him 1st.
>>51775
>homeownership is a stupid idea economically
How so.
>>51765
>And it really doesn't help that only white, landowning males were allowed to be educated and be politically/economically active. That's pretty circular reasoning.
No it was just that white landowning males were usually the most literate or had any stake in the country. it Isn't an oligarchy of any sorts. the US was 90% white all the way up until the 1970s
>>51780
>>51804
>>51837
buttmad northerner detected
>>51843
No but he got a shit ton of votes.
>>51843
No. He was a Republican, then ran as indie and split the ticket.
>>51843
No, he didn't. He ran as an independent later on and lost
>>51528
on paper
on practice it was an oligarchy
>>51485
Yeah, the republican party strongly opposes Obama for no known reason, just something about him divided the country up even more politically. Maybe corporate funding is to blame.
>>51846
Going into debt is generally bad if you can avoid it. If you can buy the property upfront then I have no objections but honestly it's better to rent otherwise.
>>51214
>>set the goal to send the man to the moon
>>redirected the cold war to the space race
>implying the space race wasn't a big military experiment and each country showing how great their missile tech is
>>51534
Sohe enslaved them by developing the rural areas of the country and making sure they wouldn't have to starve?
Without basic social safety nets you end up with things like Elderly citizens who can't work anymore either having enough money on hand to last them the rest of their life or starve
>>51099
nice dubs
>>51906
This unfortunately. There's a reason space agencies don't share rocket tech.
>>51853
it's true though
>>51892
it's a delaying tactic so that they can blame the deadlock on Obama, and so that they can seem like they're sticking it to the evil Democrats
>>51853
>this is what conservatards actually believe
>>51913
>vague generalities about what FDR did
kek.
JFK was killed because he didn't follow FDR.
He enslaved the American people to the Government and corporate class and started Globalism
>>51949
>>51996
>>52021
all this buttmad same fag
>conservative
Commie shithead
>implying kekservative
>>51902
>Going into debt is generally bad if you can avoid it.
That's why you don't buy a house you cant afford anon, or agree to a dipshit mortgage.
But renting is absolutely retarded if you can afford to own. The money you pay in rent just goes into a black hole, at least by paying a mortgage you're gaining equity.
>>52060
wow you're dumber than I ever expected
also I'm not buttmad I just have nothing better to do with my time
the delaying tactic thing has been admitted by GOP members themselves as well
>>51508
That would be Harry Truman and McCarthy.
>>51648
At the end of the colonial period something like 80% of citizens were landowners.
>>52060
Oh wait this is just bait isn't it
fuck I'm an idiot
>>52330
No, you're just an idiot
>>46329
Washington and Lincoln are the competitors for #1. There are others, like TR, who were based af but who didn't really do anything game changing.
Washington basically founded America, and Lincoln saved America.
FDR gets props for setting us up to win WWII. Loses props (to me; reasonable men may differ) for hugely expanding the rule of federal government.
>>52290
They very much contributed yes.
>>51585
So should he have just let the Japanese (who were fighting a war against US allies) continue on their merry way?
>>52382
the sad thing is that there are people this legitimately incoherent
>>52456
We should have not made overseas allies, and stayed out of foreign war like Washington said
>>46471
Nixon was terrible at managing domestic affairs.
>didn't attempt to reverse the great society
>instituted price controls to attempt to combat inflation despite overwhelming evidence that it would not work
>was a corrupt power hungry individual
>>52497
>the sad thing is that there are people this legitimately incoherent
>>47999
>like Jefferson
>dislike Reagan
Explain.
>>52410
>like TR, who were based af but who didn't really do anything game changing
Teddy should be in everyone's top five. He busted monopolies and built the canal, he was hugely influential in growing the economy.
>for hugely expanding the rule of federal government
If you criticize FDR for this you might as well forget Lincoln. That aside, FDR did give the fed a more prominent role in running the nation but it was fine because he really ran a government for and by the people. How else could he have been elected four times otherwise? The US government as the sociopathic and incompetent organization we know it today started with Truman and was continued with his successors.
>>52500
This. And the notion of helping out allies in that case is absurd too. We only endanger ourselves by doing so.
>>47839
>This is what southerners actually believe
>>52500
>Muh isolationism
Autism in it's purest form. Beating Japan was a massive net benefit for the US and all of Asia. Your shitty principles would've gotten millions of people killed and enslaved for nothing.
Based Teddy because he created the National Park Service and preserved thousands of acres of land for the public
>>46329
I believe Calvin Coolidge to be one of the great. His minimalist approach to governance is a lesson everyone can learn from, whether or not you're a libertarian. Of course exceptional times call for exceptional people, but peaceful times call for non-reformers who know how to take a step back.
Unfortunately "I'll do nothing if it happens to be the best course of action" isn't a very marketable political message.
>>50159
True that. Federalists were Brit-loving scum.
>>51204
Fuck off, you Hamiltonian dickcheese. Knocked out most of the national debt and kicked the Barbary pirates' asses.
>>52864
>Federalists were Brit-loving scum
They preferred a practical deal with a better trading partner. Jeffersonites were/are just butt blasted children.
>>53040
What is credit for 300? Protip, the Louisiana Purchase wouldn't have happened without credit since it was bought on a loan. Idiot.
>>48300
>Not to mention he killed a guy during a duel when he already won.
Fuck with the best, die like the rest, nigga.
>>47999
This is confirmed for the most kekworthy reply, not even sure if it is bait. Just off statistics Reagan is better than most of the ones he mentioned.
>>52670
lol wut
>strawman
>>52802
Good ol' "Silent Cal". Yeah he is definitely up there.
>>52591
>How else could he have been elected four times otherwise?
Because he broke with a 150 year old convention and ran for a third/fourth term, and the longer someone's in an elected position the less likely they are to be unseated.
>The US government as the sociopathic and incompetent organization we know it today started with Truman and was continued with his successors.
FDR's government was totally centralized around him to the point that people were afraid to contradict him even after he began his descent into stroke-induced deliriousness. And it was his government that saw the first large-scale penetration by Soviet espionage. But even if FDR's government was totally exceptional and competent and Truman was the one who made it "sociopathic and incompetent", the fact that FDR expanded federal power in the first place AND ran with Truman as VP means he STILL bears responsibility for it.
>>53641
How the fuck is that /pol/? Read a fucking book.
>>50000
Let me just ask you this then, why was the Lusitania allowed near an active warzone after both sides had already warned of the possibility of accidental civilian casualties and why after that very thing happened was it of tantamount importance to escalate the conflict by sending American troops to avenge the deaths of the people who at best were killed by their own negligence?
>>47345
>God tier
>Reagan
>Hall of Shame
>Lincoln
>Kennedy
>>53641
Good fucking god why are so many faggots around here PETRIFIED of the non-existent /pol/ boogeyman?
>>49705
If Hamilton could've run for president he would've blown that agrarian fuck out of the water.
>>48300
How much of a fucking beta liberal arts student could you possible be! I can smell the beard stink and slow drip coffee from here!
>>53641
Are you still listening to what your fucking high school teachers told you about Coolidge. "Le he let da free market go loose and that is what caused the depression." Maybe you should brush up on the subject before accusing me of memery and stupidity for saying Coolidge's approach to government was good.
>>53641
http://www.economist.com/news/books-and-arts/21572176-americas-30th-president-has-been-much-misunderstood-when-less-led-more
Fucking faggot
>>53075
At least under Jefferson, I wouldn't have to watch my mouth for concern of offending our delicate President Adams.
>>54056
Yeah, you'd just shut down all exports from the US. Sound strategy ;)
>>54117
The only regrettable action of Jefferson's.
>>52670
>Your shitty principles would've gotten millions of people killed and enslaved for nothing.
its not the united states' job to police the world and protect all the people in it. If Asia can't deal with the Japanese by themselves then they deserve whatever the Japanese decide should be their fate for their negligent dealing with them. And it wouldn't be for nothing. It would be preventing the loss of American lives in turn, and that's not an ethos argument. That manpower and industry that could have been used on infrastructure and development was wasted on war efforts and has had a profound impact on our development as a nation in that we can't reasonably fuction anymore without being at war with someone. If you want to say that human life has an intrinsic value, which it doesn't but that's beside the point, then that's fine but even in that context your statement makes no sense since not getting involved in the war would have had greater long-term benefits for the US. And if you're meaning to say that Asia should have come first well then fuck you.
Not even that guy btw. This kind of thinking just rustles me intensely.
>>54028
>10/10 counterpoints.
Yeah sorry. I really shouldn't shit up this board with those types of comments. What I'll ask instead is for you to prove that any of those things were objectively bad or wrong.
>>54340
What about his policy on the navy, ie massive downsizing?
>>53722
Reagan got reelected Kennedy didn't :^)
In all seriousness Reagan was very good, and Kennedy was the last pro-guns relatively pro-freemarket Liberal. Probably one of the last good Liberals, though he did have shit factors.
But to deny Reagans greatness is historical illiteracy, the work force participation rate under Obongo is what it is at when Reagan started, which is 10% below what it was when Reagan finished. The poverty rate now is equal to the Soviet Union at its fall. On 90% of scales Reagan trumps most in the recent times. Only big issue I can think of is the deficits he was happy to run, which although justified in the Cold War, were not divine.
>>54521
What's wrong with fucking over an indigenous people with 0 compensation?
What's wrong with causing an economic panic?
What's wrong with starting the political process of rewarding political positions to people that support you, and not based on merit?
Andrew Jackson was a dick. He is pretty much the prototype populist president, and the start of the decline from the more intellectual presidents of the past to the shitshow we have today.
>>54595
Good.
>>54636
How about stealing from Social Security? Taxcuts for the rich? Reagan is a meme president that didn't do anything right. Cutting taxes while tripling (debatable number) national debt is a retarded strategy. Not to mention funding actual terrorists in the Iran-Contra scandal.
>>54695
>saves the country from the bank and injuns
>beats his assassin nearly to death with a cane
>start of decline
>>54711
>ruined America's naval force, crippling it for generations
>>48234
FDR's economic policies were disastrous, and often worked to prolong the Depression.
On foreign policy, though, Roosevelt was top tier. He saw the war coming miles ahead of time and managed to tradition the U.S economy from a period a anemic recovery to a full blown industrial war machine in record time.
>>54863
Saved from native americans is rather strong. More like exploited ruthlessly. Saving the country from the bank is debatable, but the way he brushed aside checks and balances makes him a dick.
>first populist president
>not a signal of the decline
>>50273
>Hamilton greatest founding father
>Not knowing Hamilton's ideas during the constitutional convention included making a LITERAL HOUSE OF LORDS in the U.S Congress.
He had the foresight to see Industry as the next great economic advancement I'll give you that, but as a man of the revolution he falls woefully short.
>>54880
For what purpose does massive spending need to be poured into the navy or the army if you are intending to avoid war? A large powerful national military only encourages interventionism.
>>55001
I thought we do have an upper house though.
>>50223
>the US joins the war sooner, the Allies therefore win sooner, and therefore the death count drops.
Not necessarily, the biggest advantage the U.S had against the Germans was that they had fresh eager legs on the ground ready to charge against a tired, beleaguered, and morale drained German army. If the war was fought earlier, its very possible the Germans might have mustered enough men and will to hold back, and create a different but still stagnant front.
>>54389
>If Asia can't deal with the Japanese by themselves then they deserve whatever the Japanese decide should be their fate for their negligent dealing with them
Well, I'll just say I'm extremely grateful people like you weren't in charge of the US at the time.
>That manpower and industry that could have been used on infrastructure and development was wasted on war efforts
We lost only 400,000 men out of a nation of 140,000,000. The casualties were almost nothing. The fact that the war production got the US out of the Depression is universally known, since you don't know this you should probably stop posting.
>And if you're meaning to say that Asia should have come first well then fuck you
I believe in anything that benefits the world. The US intervening in WWII was massively beneficial to both the US and Asia.
You are absolutely nuts man, just nuts. Your argument has absolutely zero substance, and you're not educated on this issue at all.
>>54819
Obama is funding actual terrorist right now kek
His tax cuts hit all levels and they worked, he had the period of the fastest growth in modern history, double the Obama recovery from an arguably worse situation. Everyone got richer, just because taxes got cut on the upper bracket, doesn't mean it was wrong.
I could get into the more delicate Economics of it, job creation, what taxes should be focused on to create higher growth, but essentially any tax cut at any level helps everyone.
Dipping into Social Security is always pretty shit, it just happened the other day under the current administration though. Not a solely Reagan issue, whether he approved it or not.
As mentioned deficits were an issue, but you can say that the needed expenditure to fight the cold war, I personally see the higher debt in order to defeat the Soviets as justified. You could debate me on that though, there was reform happening whether Reagan put them in debt or not.
>Butthurt Southerners hating on Abe
Never gets old, stay keked rebs
>>55196
>The fact that the war production got the US out of the Depression is universally known
raygun was best pressydent
>>55219
It is. Trying reading just one book, just one. We gave 16,000,000 people a uniform and a weapon, we then gave everyone else a job making that equipment. It doubled our GDP and saved the economy.
>>51892
>Yeah, the republican party strongly opposes Obama for no known reason
It started with him trying to pass Obamacare. He initiated a little bit before Summer Recess, and when Republican's went home during the summer they heard so much shit about from their constituencies, the refused to back it in any capacity and from then on basically became the Anti-Obama league, as their voters became the anti-Obama league.
Too be fair to them, though, the Affordable Health Care Act is really a steaming pile of crap. Literally written from the bottom up by pharmaceutical companies.
>>54936
FDR was a bigger dick than him by that metric.
The president can be a dick if he pleases
Jackson is the president we need today
>>55333
>It is. Trying reading just one book, just one. We gave 16,000,000 people a uniform and a weapon, we then gave everyone else a job making that equipment. It doubled our GDP and saved the economy.
Sorta yeah, it didn't make a strong economy though, it was an unnatural one that if not for the cold war and world policing would have died out very quickly after and created a bigger depression than the one before the war.
>>51141
Our entire existence is predicated on the fact that a certain sect of colonists got massively buttblasted over English tax policies. They weren't even that bad. Some of the tax policies were already in place, they just started to be enforced more rigorously for one. Others were a LOWERING of certain taxes.
>>55382
why did the world start to go to hell in a hand basket after the 1900s?
I mean globally.
Sure we live in the most peaceful era but it sure doesn't feel like it.
Maybe Evola was right
>>55420
Funny thing is the taxes were implemented by George Washington but a few years after to pay for their defence like the British had planned the first tax to do. The US revolution was just a shill for power.
>>55333
>Trying reading just one book, just one.
You first. Provide me with a single indicator that the Depression continued until 1941.
>>55073
I'm not sure what you are trying to argue. Who do you think matters more currently in the world stage, Denmark or America?
>>55197
His tax cuts GREATLY favored the rich, more than anything else. Not only that, you say that Reagan cut taxes, but he raised them 11 times.
Trickle-down economics is fucking garbage. I'd argue it has more to due with the time Reagan took office than it did the actual policy for the benefits that occurred.
Reagan was a peacetime president, he wasn't engaged in the Cold War to the extent of his predecessors. The Soviet Union was already fizzling out of existence by the time he took office.
>>55420
>Our entire existence is predicated on the fact that a certain sect of colonists got massively buttblasted over English tax policies.
Rather, that they rejected Parliament's unprecedented attempts to control colonial affairs, which they perceived as violating their rights as Englishmen.
>>55535
>His tax cuts GREATLY favored the rich
Of course tax cuts favor people who pay taxes.
>>55502
It really is. The US really does look like a whiny, bratty child when you look at the actual things the revolutionists were complaining about. It all turned out okay in the end, but damn.
>>55472
I think it was the Great War which did the most damage in honesty. I mean, the world wasn't great before, but the Great War really mixed things up.
>>46329
Andrew Jackson was pretty legit.
Obama is a lame ass incompetent nigger.
>>55365
There aren't that many more native americans around he can fuck over, so I'm not sure what good he will do.
>>55535
>Trickle-down economics
>Confirmed for Occupy Democrats tier
No free-market Economist has ever used the term, find one book that did, please. Only opposition to his policy used the term.
And you admitted yourself, maybe by mistake that his times were better, you can say it was by chance that it was, but that is anti-intellectual.
Best:
1. Lincoln
2. Washington
3. T. R.
4. Jefferson
5. F.D.R.
6. Eisenhower
7. Adams
Worst:
1. Reagan
2. Buchanan
3. L.B.J
4. Harding
5. Johnson
6. Grant
7. Buchanan
>>55722
We tried trickle-down with Bush Jr, didn't we? We saw the fucking shit storm that all the banks caused, with worldwide implications. That shit is awful.
And of course no free-market economist would use trickledown as a term to describe their golden boy. Not going to get into an economics debate, since I don't feel that it is related to the topic, but Reagan's policies "working" is more of a fluke that promotes the boom/bust cycle more than anything else.
>>55170
House of Lords as in one based on landed generational peerage. He wanted the establishment of a new official aristocracy in America, having literally just seen a war fought over ideals such as liberty and equality.
>>46329
William Henry Harrison
>>55852
>flat tax is evil
>>55350
fuck big pharma in general
out of all the different kinds of corporations that affect american politics I hate big pharma the most
>Best president incoming
"....."
>>46329
This is not an easy question to answer, but the answer is Lincoln, followed by Teddy Roosevelt, FDR, Washington, and Polk.
Anyone who argues against Lincoln on top is just trying to be unique, or make an argument against. It's not really debatable.
>>46329
HICKORY MOTHER FUCKING JACKSON!!!!!!
>>47127
JFK is rated based on what he could have done had he lived.
>>55594
>x was a result of the great war
This. This. A thousand dead men in a trench this.
The Great War has shaped so much of our modern world it surprises me it doesn't get more coverage in grade school history.
>>46329
James 'the Adonis' Polk.
Andrew Jackson
He killed the bank
"I killed the bank." - Andrew Jackson
Then you losers decided to give power back to your masters and owners and recreated the central bank.
>>46471
>responsible for perhaps 2 million Vietnamese civilian deaths
>best
You're a piece of shit.
>>48414
>I feel he could have done better there without killing millions of Americans and wrecking the entire infrastructure of the country.
you know nothing about the circumstances into which he was thrust, the options which were available to him, or the decisions he had to make. Read a fucking book before badmouthing one of the greatest leaders of men to have ever existed.
Obama:
>international terrorism campaign (drones)
>throwing billions at unaccountable financial sector
>let torturers of the loose
>screwing over Palestinians
>propping up Military Industrial Complex
>overseeing death of American industry
>widespread and fundamentally illegal surveillance of large section of humanity
>highest number of whistle-blowers jailed
>not nearly enough done to curb greenhouse gas emissions
All that said, he's probably still the best of the bunch.
>>62811
>>international terrorism campaign (drones)
so?
better than the old way which was either boots on the ground or missile strikes or dropping bombs on them
>>screwing over Palestinians
yawn
>>highest number of whistle-blowers jailed
>caring about Snowden
>>not nearly enough done to curb greenhouse gas emissions
kek
>>54863
>had his life saved by injuns
>proceeds to fuck over that tribe
good thing the great and honorable andrew jackson got those savages into unspeakable debt
