Atheists of /his/, Ricky Gervais here. How did you come to your (lack of) belief?
Me? I used to believe in God. The Christian one that is.
I loved Jesus. He was my hero. More than pop stars. More than footballers. More than God. God was by definition omnipotent and perfect. Jesus was a man. He had to work at it. He had temptation but defeated sin. He had integrity and courage. But He was my hero because He was kind. And He was kind to everyone. He didn’t bow to peer pressure or tyranny or cruelty. He didn’t care who you were. He loved you. What a guy. I wanted to be just like Him.
One day when I was about 8 years old, I was drawing the crucifixion as part of my Bible studies homework. I loved art too. And nature. I loved how God made all the animals. They were also perfect. Unconditionally beautiful. It was an amazing world.
I was sitting at the kitchen table when my brother came home. He was 11 years older than me, so he would have been 19. He was as smart as anyone I knew, but he was too cheeky. He would answer back and get into trouble.
But anyway, there I was happily drawing my hero when my big brother Bob asked, “Why do you believe in God?” Just a simple question. But my mum panicked. “Bob,” she said in a tone that I knew meant, “Shut up.” Why was that a bad thing to ask? If there was a God and my faith was strong it didn’t matter what people said.
Oh…hang on. There is no God. He knows it, and she knows it deep down. It was as simple as that. I started thinking about it and asking more questions, and within an hour, I was an atheist.
>pop stars and football players
>heroes
Rofl
>>549169
So in other words, Ricky Gervais concluded that God doesn't exist because his mother is stupid.
Yep, that's about right for Ricky Gervais.
>it's 9/11
>watching cartoons
>phone rings and mom answers
>"anon, change the channel"
>change the channel
>twin towers are on fire on the screen
>*a week later....*
>"mommy why did the bad men put the plane into building?"
>"because they believed babby mohammed told them to"
>"who is mohammed?"
>etc etc etc
>"mommy if i was raised in desertsandland would i believe in mohammed?"
>"uhh... n-no."
>lightbulb turns on in my head when i realize my beliefs are an accident of the culture of my birth
>know enough about science and history at that age to realize the christianity i had just considered accidental is so full of holes as to be obviously a lie
>atheist about an hour later
i read the bible and quran years later and studied what christians and muslims told me to, but never found any of it convincing
I wasn't raised religious so it was obvious to me that here is no god.
The idea of god has always seemed rather absurd to me. I've dallied with the idea of faith, but it's never stuck as I see simply see no reason to think there is a god.
I didn't come from an especially religious household, but my parents aren't atheists. They figured it would be better to teach me basic morals and let me come to God on my own, I never did.
It's kinda fucked up but when I was a kid I for some reason believed that the cops could see everything and see everyone because how else would they be able to know when someone commits a crime? And I saw people getting caught all the time so It seemed obvious to me that there was cameras and shit everywhere.
It wasn't until I was like 7 or something that I learned about God and then I discarded it because it's pretty silly desu.
>>549325
More or less this, but what did it for me specifically was the Beslan school massacre.
My parents weren't religious, so they didn't raise me with religious beliefs.
That's pretty much it. I was just never brought up to believe in God, so belief never made much sense to me. I've always been interested in religion, and a few times, I've tried looking for religions that make sense, or make me feel the need for belief, but that never happened. Because I wasn't raised with it, it's actually a pretty big logical leap to make, and nothing has ever motivated me to make that leap.
But maybe that's also why I'm not an asshole about it. A lot of millitant atheism seems like it comes from butthurt to me. Like, people are mad that they feel they've been lied to, so they lash out at religious institutions out of some misplaced sense of being lied to. I've never cared.
Atheists like Gervais have the misconception that God is like a human.
They also think they're incredibly intelligent for disproving this version of God, even though only Evangelists strictly believe in an anthropomorphised "God" in the form of Jesus.
The logical conclusion of Atheism is Nihilism, and therefore there is no rational reason for Atheists to hate religion if it will all fade into nothingness anyway.
>>549506
>The logical conclusion of Atheism is Nihilism, and therefore there is no rational reason for Atheists to hate religion if it will all fade into nothingness anyway.
Because it impacts their lives?
>>549506
>baseless claims and ad hominem: the post
>>549506
Christian intellectual in action. What's with theists and attacking shit on plants. First there was a kike on a stick, now it's strawmen everywhere.
parents were Hindu but never raised me religiously. i actually do think there's a god/higher being/things beyond our comprehension but i don't subscribe to any particular ideology
i don't have a problem with other people's faith but frankly i think for most people the only reason they believe in x religion is because they were raised that way, not because the religion is inherently correct
>>549325
>not having the mental capacity to interpret simple parables
>>549169
When younger I had realized I just understood the blunt facts of the religion and not how such claims came to be. I could not even know what people meant when they said "God". I eventually came to the conclusion that it made no sense to hold onto the belief of something you don't understand as holding onto something in name doesn't mean you hold onto an idea in essence.
Later on, after getting into anthropology and eventually philosophy I looked back on the actual backing and understanding of what my Baptist/Methodist parents held and it was stupid and hilariously weak. I also began to look into different understandings of god (not "different gods" but different ontological types of things called "god") and found some of them fairly interesting with more reasonable defenses. Staunchly among them was the argument for the god of Classical Theism. From there I got into the Scholastics and their arguments. Separate from that I was looking into the ideas of their religions and how they affected society at large throughout history, which I found both illuminating and humbling to people of different cultures and worldviews generally. All of this came culminated with me no longer being an atheist and becoming a Catholic.
Also, Ricky, please get better at comedy.
>>549563
>being a Catholic by choice
Could be worse, you could choose to be a tripfa... Oh.
>>549516
>>549528
>>549539
If there is no God (God can be impersonal, a "higher power"), there is no purpose that has been given to our universe, and thus our lives.
If there is no higher purpose, then we must accept that our temporal lives are meaningless in the face of infinite nothingness.
Therefore, half-baked Atheism with a hedonistic element is logically irrational.
Try and refute my syllogism instead of making memeplications, friends. Don't go out of your way to try and "offend" me like your idol Ricky.
>>549572
>If there is no God (God can be impersonal, a "higher power"), there is no purpose that has been given to our universe, and thus our lives.
Agreeing with you so far.
>If there is no higher purpose, then we must accept that our temporal lives are meaningless in the face of infinite nothingness.
Still agreeing with you.
>Therefore, half-baked Atheism with a hedonistic element is logically irrational.
Not entirely disagreeing with you, but the very belief that there is an external world is fundamentally irrational, we none the less take it for the sake of getting shit done, which even if meaningless grants us satisfaction. Something being irrational doesn't make it invalid (yes, you can feel free to use this as a defence of belief if you see fit, see if I care).
Being bothered by the fact something makes your life uncomfortable or inconvenient is entirely legitimate if you happen to value what limited time you have. Your life doesn't need to have a grant purpose for you to value it.
Also, I barely know who this fellow is. So, I'm not sure why you're claiming he's my idol.
>How did you come to your (lack of) belief?
When I started reading Greek mythology, if those gods weren't real why would the Christian one be?
>>549572
This isn't meant to be a theism vs. atheism thread or a nihilism thread. Why do you feel so threatened that you have to derail the thread?
>if god doesn't exist everything is meaningless
>therefore not believing in god and just trying to enjoy life is illogical
>try and refute me, plebs!
>haha ricky doesn't even offend me, silly boys
>>549569
>being a tripfag
It doesn't stop hurting.
>>549506
It's easy as shit to disprove any version of god.
>>549585
This.
Keep the thread on topic and don't make the thread about theist/atheist fighting. Fuck, we get this in every atheist or theist thread.
People disagree, yes, but at least keep with the board etiquette and don't shit up the thread about irrelevant stuff.
>>549581
>but the very belief that there is an external world is fundamentally irrational
Solipsism is by no means rational, and is in fact a form of Schizophrenia.
>Something being irrational doesn't make it invalid (yes, you can feel free to use this as a defence of belief if you see fit, see if I care).
I believe that the existence of God is self-evident when inquired about in a strictly logical sense. In metaphysics something being irrational makes it invalid.
>Being bothered by the fact something makes your life uncomfortable or inconvenient is entirely legitimate if you happen to value what limited time you have.
You don't seem to understand me. The inconvenience is itself meaningless, therefore the Atheist should not care. His material existence is as temporal as any other, but his "valuing it" contradicts his ontological worldview. This destroys his own argument.
In fact, little Ricky only came to his encouragement when the only authority figures in his life (who he implies are infallible in the passage below). This is alright considering he was 8 at the time, but the fact that he looks back as a man of 54 years of age, and thinks that it was rational is hilarious.
>But anyway, there I was happily drawing my hero when my big brother Bob asked, “Why do you believe in God?” Just a simple question. But my mum panicked. “Bob,” she said in a tone that I knew meant, “Shut up.” Why was that a bad thing to ask? If there was a God and my faith was strong it didn’t matter what people said.
>>549506
What is existentialism then?
My parents are fedorafags. Even my grandparents were agnostic/atheists.
>>549663
>Solipsism is by no means rational, and is in fact a form of Schizophrenia.
Not solipsism. Your senses can be deceived, so how do you know at any time that you're not in a constant state of total deception? You don't. You take a leap in logic and assume that you are not, so you can function as an individual.
>I believe that the existence of God is self-evident when inquired about in a strictly logical sense.
In a strictly logical sense, there is no evidence for God.
>In metaphysics something being irrational makes it invalid.
Pointless.
>The inconvenience is itself meaningless,
Indeed.
>therefore the Atheist should not care.
This does not follow. Your pleasure and pain are meaningless, but they are none the less both pleasure and pain.
>His material existence is as temporal as any other, but his "valuing it" contradicts his ontological worldview.
Not really. Have you actually read any secular philosophers? Try Camus. You can acknowledge that everything is meaningless and enjoy your existence in defiance of it.
I'm not sure why objective meaning would be required for subjective value.
>>549696
>This does not follow. Your pleasure and pain are meaningless, but they are none the less both pleasure and pain.
And in the ideology of an atheist, these immediately cease when one dies, and it is as though they were never a person experiencing pleasure and pain. No memory, nothing.
If the atheist accepted this rather than pretending to, then his position would not be as laughably pretentious as it is.
I read Camus and Sartre when I was an edgy teenager going through the same phase as you are. Given the time, everyone will turn back to God after that almost inevitable phase of doubt.
>>549506
the logical conclusion of atheism is any of these three:
nihilism
existentialism
absurdism
the most pragmatic and likely of which is existentialism. Specifically existentialist humanism.
Get dunked on, christcuck
>>549729
>And in the ideology of an atheist, these immediately cease when one dies, and it is as though they were never a person experiencing pleasure and pain. No memory, nothing.
And why precisely does this matter?
>If the atheist accepted this rather than pretending to, then his position would not be as laughably pretentious as it is.
So they don't accept this because they don't draw the same conclusions as you?
>I read Camus and Sartre when I was an edgy teenager going through the same phase as you are. Given the time, everyone will turn back to God after that almost inevitable phase of doubt.
That phase has been most of my life. I made peace with the fact my existence is fleeting and meaningless. It's sad you didn't have the capability to do so.
>>549729
You put too much faith in your romantic clichés.
Many's the man who dies knowing that he'll not awake again.
You should spend more time in hospitals.
>>549755
Its more than sad, it's downright pathetic
he's openly admitting that the only reason that the continues to "believe" in god is because he isnt intellectually or emotionally capable enough to over babby first critical thought hurdle.
But this does add credence to my hypothesis that a sizable portion of those who claim to be religious are not faithful, but merely too unwilling or unable to mentally cope with nihilism.
truly embarrassing
>>549729
Just stop, you're making theist's look bad.
Since this thread is going off the rails as it is:
If any lurking anons are interested in a more in depth explanation of the nuances between nihilism, existentialism, and absurdism, I suggest this post
>>549062
there's plenty more in that thread too. Yes I am shilling my own posts. But I don't like to let a good addy binge go to waste
Critiques and ridicule welcome
>>549506
Doesn't the bible literally say humans are made like God's image?
Why wouldn't it naturally lead to secular humanism since atheists are still capable of recognizing natural selection, evolution, and maintaining ideals for future generations?
>>549755
>And why precisely does this matter?
Now you're talking.
>So they don't accept this because they don't draw the same conclusions as you?
The conclusion I made is self-evident.
>That phase has been most of my life. I made peace with the fact my existence is fleeting and meaningless. It's sad you didn't have the capability to do so.
I accept that my material life is fleeting and meaningless, and that only my actions and intentions truly matter. I believe there is an incomprehensible life after this one, however. Don't feel sad for me, I've evolved.
>>549767
>he's openly admitting that the only reason that the continues to "believe" in god is because he isnt intellectually or emotionally capable enough to over babby first critical thought hurdle.
No I'm not. I had an epiphany one day that nihilism is based on the belief that we know everything there is to know about the universe, than that we can reduce it in such a way that implies that we do.
Nihilistic hedonism is the copout, rather than the cure, my friend.
>>549808
>Now you're talking.
That wasn't an answer. The fact everything is going to end some day doesn't make your current experience irrelevant. If anything an eternal afterlife is what accomplishes that, since this life is just a staging point for eternity.
>The conclusion I made is self-evident.
That's a shameless cop-out.
>Don't feel sad for me, I've evolved.
You can rationalize it however you want, but I'm pretty sure you just balked at the precipice of the fundamental conclusion that you're impermanent.
As a teenager I couldn't deal with the incredible hypocrisy and people outright ignoring our supposed doctrine in my age group in church and the contradictory teachings of different adults in church. I also had a hard time with lots of anxiety and stress and when my mother had us not attend for a while because they were redoing the church gym and the smell gave her headaches I got used to not going and feeling all that stress.
I slowly came to terms with the church I specifically was born into being a cult and took a harder look at its theology, to realize just how not-special it was in its craziness.
Around that time my older sister did some research into our lineage and she got very mad when she found out that our church tried to cover up some awkward things with one of our ancestors.
How I feel about religion and faith in general is a bit muted because of the varied reactions in my own family that I find to be off-putting, where my father feels angry and betrayed by the church but still retains many of its values and talks to other people online with weird ideologies like his.
>>549572
>there is no purpose that has been given to our universe
Good then each individual is their own purpose and they don't have to fit into some shitty illogical mold that came from raving desert hermits.
>If there is no higher purpose
No, just because there is no ultimate universal purpose doesn't mean an individual can't tap into some purpose that is higher than just their individual needs
>then we must accept that our temporal lives are meaningless
Individual can creating a family or a business that can last for generations and provide bountiful meaning and perspective.
>infinite nothingness
How did you go from being temporary to being nothing other than handwaving hyperbole and what about all the stuff you moved around and left behind that other individuals with have to interact with (that sound like infinite resonance to me)?
in the face of infinite nothingness.
>>549808
>nihilistic hedonism
now you're speaking my language. I used to consider myself one.
I'll admit that it is a copout. But I will also assert that the god concept is a much more egregious one
I find it surprising that you could conceive of nihilism in depth, yet seemingly return to your religious beliefs afterwards.
Can you expand on why you believe god to be a more likely answer than not-god? Also are you speaking of the christian god? or a pseudo god copout deist / pantheist type god?
>>549805
The Bible has a lot of inconsistencies. I'm not a Christian.
>Why wouldn't it naturally lead to secular humanism since atheists are still capable of recognizing natural selection, evolution, and maintaining ideals for future generations?
Because there is the glaring implication that existence in itself is meaningless. It seems to be an elephant in the room for many "atheists".
>>549827
>No, just because there is no ultimate universal purpose doesn't mean an individual can't tap into some purpose that is higher than just their individual needs
This is a religion in every sense except self-designation as one.
>Individual can creating a family or a business that can last for generations and provide bountiful meaning and perspective.
Generations are nothing in the face of oblivion. The problem is that you can't seem to internalise your own dogmas.
>>549847
And I, but more of a virtuous one.
>yet seemingly return to your religious beliefs afterwards.
I didn't return to them. I was actively raised as a Catholic, and my theological myopia at the time spurred me into thinking that that was what all religion was like. For example, I never believed in the concept of trinity, or that God was anthropomorphic. I never believed in the majority of their other positions such as transubstantiation, infallibility of the Pope, and original sin.
>Can you expand on why you believe god to be a more likely answer than not-god?
There is too much that we don't know about the universe to say that God definitively does not exist, and the reductionist philosophy (copout) of those who wish not to question their disbelief fails to answer the questions it itself generates. It's just edgy egoism at the end of it all. They worship themselves (Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris, et al.).
(1/2)
>>549902
>It's just edgy egoism at the end of it all.
The only problem here is that they don't own it and accept its implications.
>>549563
>I eventually came to the conclusion that it made no sense to hold onto the belief of something you don't understand
The implications of your very statement leads you into hypocrisy of much of the knowledge you hold about everyday life.
That being said...
>Catholic.
There's numerous problems apparent in that statement. Perhaps a discussion for a different time.
>>549902
Why do you think infinite flexible ambiguous meaning equates to zero meaning just because your favorite proposition is easily dismissible?
Religion implies specific supernatural speculation motivating strict codification of a particular culture, working for a factory is not necessarily a religion, but it can provide religious experience and ritual over time.
Oblivion is just some vague pessimistic ideal you have as long as generations continue to reproduce and evolve.
You seem to be projecting all your shitty dogmas onto strangers since you can't even consider another perspective without clouding it up with your superstitious viewpoints.
>>549847
>>549902
(2/2)
>Also are you speaking of the christian god? or a pseudo god copout deist / pantheist type god?
Sufi Islam and Stoicism were huge influences in the forming of my adult beliefs.
In short, I believe that the "Abrahamic God" is in reality a "copout" panentheist type God while at the same time strictly "One", and that the majority of modern Abrahamic faiths have deviated from this intended meaning of their books in favour of a more anthropomorphic caricature.
Basically what Al-Ghazali and other great scholars theorised but in my own words.
I died as a mineral and became a plant,
I died as plant and rose to animal,
I died as animal and I was Man.
Why should I fear? When was I less by dying?
Yet once more I shall die as Man, to soar
With angels blest; but even from angelhood
I must pass on: all except God doth perish.
When I have sacrificed my angel-soul,
I shall become what no mind e'er conceived.
Oh, let me not exist! for Non-existence
Proclaims in organ tones, 'To Him we shall return.'
-Jalal ad-Din Rumi (1207-1273)
>>549325
Spirituality is ment to be lived, not studied. Thats the best way i can put it. Its like explaining what a strawberry tastes like to someone that never had one.
>There is no God. He knows it, and she knows it deep down. It was as simple as that. I started thinking about it and asking more questions, and within an hour, I was an atheist.
Just curious about how many people that defend atheism have actually read the bible cover to cover and came to their own conclusions?
I find it strange that people tend to deny the existence of God based on others understanding.
>>549827
>defend atheism
Atheism isn't a positive claim, it doesn't need to be defended. Might as well ask a baby why it dares to be an atheist.
>>549966
mmm yes merely the knowing that there is no god which you definitely know good sir!
>>549972
That's only if you make a positive assertion that there is no god. You can simply not believe in God. You're not claiming absolute knowledge, you're just not leaping to the conclusion of God's existence.
>>549966
It's a philosophical and ontological position definitively asserting a negative.
Are you saying that its exceptional in it not needing defence?
That's scary.
>Atheism isn't a positive claim, it doesn't need to be defended. Might as well ask a baby why it dares to be an atheist.
Bad wording on my part. I meant people who deny the existence of God.
>>549961
I'm reading it now.
I wonder how many people that defend abrahamic theism have actually read the bible cover to cover and came to their own conclusions?
>>549978
>denying a claim is the same as claiming the opposite
>>549940
Interesting.
I've been meaning to give the quran and hadeiths a read, im a bit put off by the "if you dont read it in arabic it doesnt count" meme
Stoicism is alright. I've always been naturally stoic. Maybe I should read some stoicist literature. I heard meditations is a good place to start
On that note, stoicism has a lot in common with buddism. Have you given that a chance? You clearly are familiar with the bible and a branch of islam, Meanwhile that quote explicitly alludes to reincarnation
Interesting. It seems that you've got an amalgamation of several different concepts that form your belief system.
As I suspected, however, you did end up succumbing to the final tactic that 'enlightened' theists have up their sleeve: resorting to pan theism. It's a good tactic, since purposefully conflating the concept of god with the concept of our reality makes your position near unassailable. When you intentionally make no positive claims as to the nature of your deity, that's a pretty big red flag in regards to the legitimacy of your faith.
Especially seeing as the abrahamic god is undeniably anthropomorphic (or is it the other way around?) seeing as all the flavors agree that 'we were made in his image'
Anyway I think we've reached an impasse. Maybe I'll give the muzzie book a chance after all.
But I will leave you with this:
Pantheism is just one very small step from agnosticism. And we all know where that road leads
goodnight anon
>I wonder how many people that defend abrahamic theism have actually read the bible cover to cover and came to their own conclusions?
Indeed it does work both ways. I have.
>>549979
Denial is still atheism, still the null-hypothesis. The burden of proof is on you to disprove it, i.e. prove a god exists. Or at least try.
>>549993
>and hadeiths
have fun
>>549961
I read the thing literally cover to cover and it was honestly what sealed the deal for me.
Actually reading the bible is one of the most effective paths to atheism there is.
Without the priests there to cherry pick passages and provide 'context' and removed from all the pomp and circumstance and social pressure that comes with being in church, the book is simply absurd.
Here's something I find strange:
You claim that reading that holy book would give people understanding (and presumably such understanding would lead them to your god)
yet you do not afford the same for the holy texts of other religions. Why is that? How can you deny the existence of shiva without reading the Vedas?
Hypocrite
>>549978
>prove a negative
You can dress up the sentence however you want, but you're still not following the rules of logic. But we already knew that, or else you wouldnt be 'defending' fairytales
>I read the thing literally cover to cover and it was honestly what sealed the deal for me.
Interesting to know, was honestly just curious
>>550049
I encourage you to read the holy texts of other faiths. If only to strengthen the belief in your own
You'll grow out of atheism at 18~20.
Atheism is your edgy rebellious teenager phase.
>I encourage you to read the holy texts of other faiths. If only to strengthen the belief in your own
I do indeed try to study at least some aspect of faiths.
>>549993
I'll try to type this fast so that you can read it before you leave.
Hadeeth are conjecture collected hundreds of years after the death of Muhammad, and their flexibility and erroneous reporting allowed for superstition and misconceptions to take hold in the illiterate of the faith. Some are legitimate, but the majority are not.
That meme is true, but the Quran is written in such a way that anyone can learn it. It's utilitarian, yet "flowery" at the same time, but Arabic is supposed to be a very logical language so that could be why.
>On that note, stoicism has a lot in common with buddism. Have you given that a chance? You clearly are familiar with the bible and a branch of islam,
No, but there are some Muslims that believe that Siddartha Gautama was a Muslim prophet or saint, that his original positions were twisted in a similar manner that Jesus' were.
>Meanwhile that quote explicitly alludes to reincarnation
My interpretation is that it is alluding to both evolution, and the reuse of our matter for aeons. Obviously Rumi could not have known about the finer levels of organisation, so his starting point in the poem was with "minerals". The "realm of spheres" was theorised by scholars like Ibn Khaldun.
>As I suspected, however, you did end up succumbing to the final tactic that 'enlightened' theists have up their sleeve: resorting to pan theism
Rather Panentheism.
>When you intentionally make no positive claims as to the nature of your deity, that's a pretty big red flag in regards to the legitimacy of your faith.
I make no claims because I don't believe I can legitimately go any further to describe God, as I can't know.
>Especially seeing as the abrahamic god is undeniably anthropomorphic (or is it the other way around?) seeing as all the flavors agree that 'we were made in his image'
Islam denies this "made in his image" idea. How can an immaterial being have a form like man? If anything, it's metaphorical. (1/2)
>>549169
>How did you come to your (lack of) belief?
I was not raised in a religious family. Religion was just not a factor in my life.
Religion and religious people as a whole just struck me as weird.
Obviously I cannot disprove the existence of a deity, but I haven't seen any compelling evidence of their existence.
When I was younger, I very much liked the idea of a creator deity , not necessarily a patriarchal figure who created the Earth in 6 days, more like a sort of conscious, guiding light that originated and guided the creation of the universe, and the evolution of life on Earth. Something closer to Deism. As I got older, and actually learned more and more about science, the actual mechanisms by which evolution happens, the forces that create star systems, I found fewer and fewer places I could fit any sort of divine intervention, unless he was actively breaking his own laws, which there doesn't seem to be any evidence of. Otherwise, he simply set events into motion long ago, and then, what? Just sat back and let things unfold according to some predicted plan? I couldn't bring myself to keep believing in a being that kept getting "smaller" as we learned more about the universe. I decided it was most likely that there wasn't such a being, and the universe's systems had no sort of protective, guiding light.
>>550057
Close, Ricky Gervais is 54 years old, but hes giving it up any day now and your guess will be close.
>>549923
>The implications of your very statement leads you into hypocrisy of much of the knowledge you hold about everyday life.
Oh, no doubt, and as I come to understand where I have this issue in parts of my life I begin to work through it.
>discussion for a different time.
Indeed.
OP
I am not an atheist, but I would also recommend atheism in the God-concept you first held.
I have therefore even promoted the cause of conscientious atheism, as is evident in my support of you Ricky and your career, and also Hitchens. Who I regard as part of system of teaching. I hope you enjoyed the letter you received before your career began, you may know it was me by the mention of the style of the office mentioned, and the sink story; thank you for your co-operation. Obviously I cannot take credit for your accomplishments, I am not even sure how I am able to see promote the history that has yet to unfold.
Whether or not you are the real Ricky, I will just get back to my thesis on God.
God is real, because it a word with a real meaning, if you define it as being unreal, that is just a decision. God means authority. If you don't believe in God, that is a kindof nihilism, its tantamount to a political affiliation to some stark kind of anarchism. (labels and names are hard to mention without becoming lost in tangential debates, obviously if you look into anything, ie the writings on anarchism, you will find that they are quite heavily dependent on innate operational harmony that is repressed by centralized systems of power, although I do not promote anarchism myself, I understand the force of persuasion behind it).
People in general buy into programmed realities that persist in their surroundings. So-called and self-identifying Christians, who are large in number, have at least a vastly similar God-concept, and so that is taken to be the Christian God: I myself am at odds at what to do, because I would like to defend the real God, but its impossible to compete against getting lumped with all the sky-daddy crowd. This I find tremendously frustrating also, because I believe its quite plain that the biblical account of God very plainly labels the sky-daddy concept of God as the "God of the world" (which is a biblical name for the devil.)
>>549506
God IS like a human. He has:
>a gender
>thoughts
>feelings
>agency
>intelligence
>values
>a mind
>a plan
Don't go claiming God doesn't have these things, because if that's the case, Christians have been lying to me my whole life.
Never been religious in the first place.
>>551150
>Christians have been lying to me my whole life.
Occam's razor mate.
>>551225
But how can one be so mistaken about ones own religion? If I were a Christisn, I'd at least make sure I got God right.
>>551150
And a wife
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asherah
>>551150
because if that's the case, Christians have been lying to me my whole life.
that is your God, a story you've loved more than the spirit of truth. The spirit of man-made story time, that fear wont let you escape.
You belong to a crowd, and the crowd has you. Good luck.
friendly reminder
>>551329
I didn't understand anything you said, but thanks I guess
>>549169
I'm not an atheist. I've had my doubts, of course, but they just never had a lasting impact. It's not about a intellectual structure, however. It has more to do with knowing things in a different way than simple logic and equations, as it were.
>>551383
So what's your way of knowing?
>>549729
>If the atheist accepted this rather than pretending to, then his position would not be as laughably pretentious as it is.
But the majority of atheists do accept that? What are you on about?
>Given the time, everyone will turn back to God
How can you "turn back" to God when you dont ever believed in that concept in the first place?
It may be a very anedoctical experience, but my dad never believed in God, and I can assure you that he died not believing in such a thing, and he had plenty of time to ponder about its mortality in his last days.
>>549169
>cradle atheist
>studied religions extensively
>tfw will never have the blue pill
I'll never believe in God, but faith does have its powers.
>get on plane
>have faith the ANA pilots aren't drunk
>sleep like a baby
Versus
>get on plane
>faith that baby jesus will ferry me softly and safely to the great weeb homeland
>sleep like a baby
That's the difference.
>>551383
if its not able to be replicated given parameters, then its not true. thats why logic and equations are such great ways of knowing things. they dont depend on you being you. equations dont give a fuck who you are, they just exist. can you replicate your personal experiences that lead you to believing in this thing you cant even describe fully that you may call god? can you do so for others? will it always be the same everytime? if not its subjective and as such isnt actually knowing, its thinking you know but its really only just thinking, or more realistically feeling like its true.
This board is reddit now rofl.
>how special of a snowflake were you when you came out as an atheist
>>551557
>oh no, the board isn't a Christian hugbox like /pol/
You know, you'd have an easier time surrounding yourself with people that agree with you on reddit, friend.
>>551557
>Christians revel at atheists getting annoyed at Christ generals and religious circle jerks.
>they can't handle it when there's a thread dedicated to atheism
Rofl you are literally tumblr
>"mommy why was baptized"
>"so you can be introduced to god"
>"who is god"
>"there is no god"
there ya have it
>>551895
Your mother taught you about absurdity early.
Any religion is fake and gay.
Religion was invented to easily manipulate masses of people. Is like politics but with harry potter lol
read e.g. white america in profecy. also i once heard somewhere that some priests have recommended to atheist the use of the ouija board and the ones that tried it always convert.
I never believed in anything. I can't get how people can be impressed by someone else, how they can venerate something/someone. Not only about god, but also about other humans (famous singers, actors, politicians for example).
I can do what I want, I don't have to follow some book or someone to know that what I'm doing is right or not.
Perhaps some greater entities exist, some existence we can't really understand or grasp, well, perhaps our lives have a sense, perhaps they don't. But not the God monotheistic religions are talking about, nope, that is unlikely. The only one who can influence your life is yourself, not god.
>>549169
Grew up in a family that never spoke of Christianity or the bible. I only had a mother since my father was abusive and a manwhore. Flash forward several years someone asks me if I believe in "the Lord above" and was completely ignorant of the topic. I read through the Bible and it just seemed like a fantasy book to me. The whole idea of a supreme being and men with supernatural abilities compared to dragons and superheros. Perhaps if I grew up with a Christian family I would be Christian but to me, it is just a really good fantasy novel.
>>552143
>I can do what I want, I don't have to follow some book or someone to know that what I'm doing is right or not.
>The only one who can influence your life is yourself, not god.
In short, you venerate/worship your self/ego.
>>552265
How? I'm not saying I'm the greatest human on Earth, or that my actions and decisions always turn out to be good.
They don't. What I mean is if your life turns out to be shit, it's because of the decisions you made, if it's turn out to be good, it's also thanks to the decisions you made. Whether you were a believer or not, it doesn't really matter.
The constraints in this world are not spiritual, they are social.
>>549275
This guy gets it
I realized that any religion anyone has is because of what culture they are born into, and the only reason my parents were Christians was because their parents were Christians and so forth
>>549961
I became an atheist in the process of reading the whole bible. although I must admit that I still haven't finished it but I've read the majority
>>550008
that's not how the burden of proof works. most atheists are agnostic atheists and therefore don't make a claim of knowledge that there is no god
>>550437
>God is real, because it a word with a real meaning
that's a completely meaningless statement. by the same logic unicorns exist
>>549169
Has anyone considered god may be unintelligent?
Consider, intelligence is a coping mechanism. God being all powerful doesn't need intelligence to cope.
>>553895
Plato talks about the Demiurge, a creator god that may be insane or just really dumb or just asleep.
>>549169
This looks like it's partially just a copy of something ricky gervais said in an interview
who /deist/ here?
>>549506
>even though only Evangelists strictly believe in an anthropomorphised "God" in the form of Jesus.
uhh...not even close m8. Catholics hold that Jesus was fully human and fully divine.
>>549169
I read the bible.
>>554382
read the quran instead
>>549169
Seems to me the conclusion here is that you shouldn't believe in god if its possible you are wrong about it. He seems to have became atheist the moment god was no longer a black and white fact. The kind of close mindedness that the supposedly open minded love to embrace.
>>554783
Is anyone "close minded" about the existence of Russel's Teapot?
>>554810
Russell's atheism is probably the worst part of his philosophy.
>>549169
Seventh grade, that was the first time I really thought about it.
I'm an atheist because my own curiosity stripped the world away from me at a young age. I experienced an almost Lovecraftian revelation bit by bit. The world is a miserable place. Free will is probably an illusion, my consciousness is likely nothing more than a highly advanced computer running an emulation. Religion is nothing more than a self perpetuating lie whose growth can actually be observed in history like any other cultural fluke. It festers and grows because of mankind's constant lust for hope to relieve some of the pain from its miserable existence. That who I am as a person is not decided by the self, but by the community- were I to grow up in any other culture with the exact same genes, I would yet be unrecognizable.
>>549827
No, without divine assertion there is no purpose at all. Life objectively does not matter, we have no value, and the death of men is neither good or evil. There is no purpose higher than individual needs- indeed there is no purpose of individual needs either.
We can create purposes for ourselves, but these are delusional lies. We're welcome to entertain ourselves with them- but they are not true outside our minds.
>>554872
That's nice, but it doesn't answer the question.
When I was a kid I believed in trolls disguising as overgrown tree stumps, goblins digging inside mountains, when lightning stroke it was thor fighting giants in the sky and that Odin flew around somewhere.
I remember being 8 or so and my sister asked if i believed in god and jesus and I said that I didn't. Never really believed in santa or jesus to begin with, but forced christianity on myself later because I felt it was my duty.
>>549169
I never believed that Ricky Gervais is funny
>>549506
>the misconception that God is like a human
The literature is in their favour here since that is how he is described. I get that you want it to mean everything as yet unexplainable to humans but that is unfair to the concept of definition itself.
>>549169
I think I always was. I can't remember ever having believed anything I was being told. Even so, my parents baptized me, I had communion, and confirmation...because I was told to and everyone else was doing it. For me it was a way to see my friends outside of school. None of it made me feel anything. Not the praying, or the homilies, or the communion.
One night Mum asked me to pray for my Grandfather who'd passed away a few weeks prior. As I went to bed I closed my eyes and began thinking some half-hearted stuff like "Dear God, please take care of my Grandad in heaven". I felt kind of silly doing it. Praying to the creator that my Grandfather gets some kind of special treatment in the afterlife. After a moment of reflection I thought "Hey! All of this stuff I've been made to do feels pretty pointless...so it probably is!" and that was it.
>>549169
>Ricky Gervais
>knowing shit about history or philosophy
>saying anything other than "no" and "you're an idiot" as a counter argument
Fuck off Ricky, you're the worst part of your own show.
Learn wit or quit.
I lost faith pretty early on. My mother got divorced and while she worked my brother and I would spend our afternoons after school at my Grandparents. This carried on until I was 12 or so. The male role model in my life from 6-12 was my Grandfather.
He enlisted in the British Army in 1938. He fought through North Africa, Italy, France and Germany. While we worked in the garden together or on his allotment he'd often tell me stories about the war. Early on it was just funny stories about the good times (Including a rather rude story about a lady in Alexandria who dispelled some racist notions he held as a young men) but as I got older he started to share the nastier ones too.
When I was 11 or so after one incredibly dark tale I asked him how god could allow such awful things to happen. He held up a finger and said quite pointedly "Through the entire war, the largest conflict in human history..or at least my part of it. I never found a problem that I could solve by praying. But I found plenty that could be solved by the slight pull of a trigger."
That was it really, the seed of doubt grew from there.
>>553850
Denial isn't an assertion of the opposite statement. It means you don't have enough evidence to fulfill my standards.
>>554986
>>549169 (OP)
It was a strange way for me. I started to not believe in the 6th grade and was like that until high school. I guess lying to myself and thoughts of judgement made me re-believe and believe my own lies. Sometime in junior year I had to be real with myself and not believe in something that I truly know is false; regardless of what people think.
>>549572
So we must make our own existences meaningful. Nihilism in itself is just the first step into existentialism for once we learn that our lives have no greater value in the means of the universe through God. Then we must teach ourselves that it is in the freedom of insignificance we can make our own existences mean something that isn't already set in place. And as such we can make our own existences mean something, thus disproving the intermediary step of nihilism where we can't have reason if there isn't a universal one
>>549169
>There is no God
How come it is easier to find rich and powerful jews than rich and powerful atheists?
In fact rich and powerful atheists are quite rare.
>>555395
B I L L G A T E S
I
L
L
G
A
T
E
S
And to be fair, most Jerws are secular. They hold onto their Jewish identity so they can get ahead through nepotism, and so they can continue to collect holocaust shekels.
>>549169
I wasn't raised as a Christian.
![26s22-kamprad-258__mngl_20110326ab5x022,nyh_1.indd_5839[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/re1v7fK.jpg "26s22-kamprad-258__mngl_20110326ab5x022,nyh_1.indd_5839[1].jpg")
>>555395
>>555395
Many rich Jews are atheists / secular, this is a fact. Which goes pretty much against the idea of the Old Testament which is full of countless examples of God buttfucking the Jews because they don't follow his commandments.
>>555440
>>555436
>>555420
>t-they are actually n-nonbelievers
>I-I f-found an a-atheist who is rich (but not powerful)
>>555446
But it's true. Many rich Jews like I don't know, George Soros, Mark Zuckerberg or Sergei Brin are atheists.
>>550147
>Religion and religious people as a whole just struck me as weird.
>religious people as a whole just struck me as weird
And then, you were atheist
It's fucked to deny a fast track to self satisfaction and happiness because you saw the people affiliated with it as "weird".
>>555516
Last I heard Notch was married for like a year and his wife took a ton of his shit in alimony. Now he's lonely and without purpose since he sold Mojang.
A fitting punishment for never implementing CTF or zombie mode like he promised in Alpha fucking cunt.
>>549169
>cheeky
>mum
if you>>549275 knew anything about the brits, its completely common for their society to put football/soccer and/or the athletes in some supreme leader status just like best koreans do to kim jung un.
ever notice how iron maiden or pink floyd all take football pics? theyre obsessed. not to mention the firms
>>553887
Are you implying that:
1. the word "unicorn" means authority
2. God is part of the physical universe, and not a spirit.
3. Unicorns are force and character of human decision making.
either way, well done on being a simpleton, or learning how to extract an statement into a warped purpose, you must be some kind of toastmaster-kin, perhaps I'll give up already as I'm sure the rhetoric is about to escalate to incomprehensible proportions.
>>555633
>"Unicorn" means authority
>toastmaster-kin
>about to
Seems like you're too to call that.
>>549169
I believe there are deities but I do not believe they should be worshiped
Am I an atheist?
>>555707
A Polydeist, maybe?
>>555600
>if you>>549275 knew anything about the brits, its completely common for their society to put football/soccer and/or the athletes in some supreme leader status just like best koreans do to kim jung un.
>>555677
Too late*
>>555633
The word "unicorn" has a defined meaning that many people share, therefore unicorns exist. It takes the same logic of "God exists because he has a defined meaning man people share" and applies it to other concepts with similar properties.
>>549169
I used to like him, and on occasion he can still be funny, but the majority of his humor is just him being a dickbag to somebody else (the Office, Louie CK, whatshisface from An Idiot Abroad) and it gets old.
I did like The Invention of Lying though.
>>555633
>Are you implying that: God is part of the physical universe, and not a spirit.
Getting tired of this "le god exists outside the realm of human conception" meme
Nothing can exist outside of the physical universe. it is not possible
>>555840
>Nothing can exist outside of the physical universe. it is not possible
Quantum physics implies that something exists outside of this universe
>>556038
>>556060
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Nlbro2MNBs
>>556070
>citing someone who believes the moon landing was faked
>linking a video that has little to do with the discussion
okey dokey
>>556101
>begins the video by saying that not all conspiracy theories are correct because there are crazy ones like the moon landing being faked
you are not capable of understanding language
>>555096
The bit where Carl was talking about his brain having the image of an onion popping into his head, and then Ricky goin on about 'you are your brain' and what not and really being a dick, Carl was actually on point.
>>549169
I grew up CofE and wanted to become a vicar when I was young.
To be honest it was a slow realisation during my late teens and early to mid twenties that the myths Christians are taught are about as valid as the myths of Celtic pagans, or Muslims, or Hindus or Yazidis or whatever believe. They have the same level of validity as believing four leaf clovers will bring you luck or that the position of the stars will affect your chances of winning the lottery or that stepping on a crack in the street is bad.
I see a lot of religious people on 4chan say "I wuz an atheist for two days in my teenage years cuz I decided to be edgy" usually followed by a personal attack on the non-religious. I don't know whether you are deliberately lying and shitposting or just don't know you are full of shit and honestly think you were at some point atheist because you have no serious idea what being atheist is like.
If you are raised religious becoming non-religious is is just that realisation that all that stuff you believe without evidence is no sounder than all that stuff you quite happily dismiss as obvious nonsense, including all the other religions on the planet. The day you grasp that is the day you will actually be an atheist.
>>549169
I read Nietzsche.
>>549506
>You seem to have been more vocally atheist this year.
I say that’s not true. My atheism might be higher-profile than other people’s atheism, but it’s not high on my agenda. But it’s the thing they always pick out. I can do 30 tweets of my cat, a bath pic, a Karl [Pilkington] quote, plugging. The one tweet that’s . . . I mean, I don’t even know what an atheist tweet is. Sometimes they’re scientific tweets that oppose some of the “facts” in the Bible. And I get: “Why do you keep going on about atheism?” One of [the questions] is “Why are you obsessed with God if you don’t believe in him?”, and I want to say: “I’m not obsessed with God, I’m obsessed with people who want to do things in his name.”
Another one is: “Why are you obsessed with only the Christian God?” How many times have I stated that I don’t believe in any God? There are possibly 3,000 so-called deities. If we’re talking about monotheistic gods, I believe in one less god than you. When they say, “Why don’t you believe in God?”, I often say, “Which one?”
- ricky gervais, interview
http://www.newstatesman.com/lifestyle/religion/2012/12/ricky-gervais-there-shouldnt-be-word-atheism
So this guys 8 year old self reasoned better than the millennia of theologians, scientists and philosophers who dedicated their lives to studying this. Interesting.
>>555570
>And then, you were atheist
No, I was an atheist before that. I was born an atheist and I remain one to this day.
>>557727
Is that meant to be an argument? You could just flip that around and say the same thing to a theist.
>ur dum cuz these smart people don't agree with you
>>557748
No, but his reason for disbelieving isn't an argument either. I'm saying hes disregarding (actually not just disregarding, OPPOSING) all the actual arguments, in favor of using an experience he had as an 8 year old child to make his decision for him.
I know hes just a comedian acting retarded on purpose but it irks me that there are many people who take his logic seriously
>>557753
I don't really like Gervais so I don't pay much attention to him, but from what I have seen he usually poses an actual counter argument. I don't think he just goes "Fuck off, I decided I didn't believe in god when I was 8"
He's just explaining how he came to doubt the existence of the Christian god.
>>557727
Mate I've been an agnostic since i was like 7. I cried every night about it for about two years thinking about death.
>>557771
>but from what I have seen he usually poses an actual counter argument.
no he doesn't
>>555840
What part of the physical universe contains the existence of purpose?
what part of the physical universe contains the existence of decision?
>>555677
implying I didn't substantiate a full refutation first, and then you goes onto sling mud before doing the same.
>>555803
I hate having to waste my time on idiots like you that (are either):
implying unicorns are defined as existing both inside and outside of myth.
I could continue to explain how that is a misapplication to the God-concept, but since you didn't understand my first post, I know you are a lost cause that wouldn't be able to follow my example of how your reasoning is feebly applied to God, however it can be easily extrapolated by my comment just above, please prove that you are more than being only capable of repeating populist arguments without the nuanced intellect to understand what makes your counterpoints even applicable.
I wasn't raised religious
My parents probably were, but they seem to have dropped it along the way. Maybe I should ask them about that.
For me, it's the simple matter that nobody is born religious.
>>557727
You mean your 8 year old self reasoned better than the millennia of atheists, non-Christians and pagan philosophers? Interesting.
>>557780
And you do?
>>549169
Never had an "in an hour" moment. I wanted to have faith badly, studied pretty intensely since early childhood. Went to a Christian school, studied scripture with a Lutheran study group, did Catholic catechism when my dad married a Catholic. Defended my faith against those who'd pick it apart in person or online. Embarrassingly, in retrospect. My arguments were pretty weak. Tried the deist/pantheist/agnostic bits on for size as my faith weakened, and tried defending these views just as sincerely and just as badly.
I didn't get butthurt because anything was forced on me. I was just looking really hard for something I never was able to find in religion. I also still haven't found what I was looking for now that I'm atheist. Rather, I'm having to come to terms with the possibility that what I'm after might not exist at all.
I'm not really anti-religion. I found a lot of disappointment in the church, but I was also able to see its potential to enrich the lives of its members. I'm also still a bit of a religiboo in some respects, though not an expert on anything in particular by a long shot.
>>549961
>how many people that defend atheism have actually read the bible cover to cover and came to their own conclusions?
Actually memorized the OT as a kid. Not really saying that backs up my beliefs any. An elementary school kid's understanding of scripture is likely to be weak, and as an adult I have a poor memory of the experience. I still mean to work back through it one of these days.
>>554923
>shit's horrifying
My emotional response to similar revelations has varied considerably, and seems to correlate more with my overall circumstances and state of mind than with the nature of the revelation. If I ever get rich, I am likely to become callous and incurious to these things.
>>557727
Well, duh. The average 8 year old nowadays knows infinitely more than any of those theologians did, and has more access to knowledge than ever before
>>559159
>implying unicorns are defined as existing both inside and outside of myth.
They were, until fairly recently in the grand scheme of human history. They became 'mythical" (rather than an animal that lives in an exotic land that can be used in regular stories or fiction) only when all of the world was sufficiently explored and they could not be found.
>>549169
Reminder that /his/ is not r/atheism.
My parents weren't religious and never raised me with one.
>>559865
Idon't see what your parents has to do with it. Iwas raised secular and converted to Christianity.
Take care m8.
