>Granddaughter of Queen Victoria and an older sister of Alexandra, the last Russian Empress, Elisabeth became famous in Russian society for her beauty and charitable works among the poor. After the Socialist Revolutionary Party's Combat Organization murdered her husband with a dynamite bomb in 1905, Elisabeth publicly forgave Sergei's murderer, Ivan Kalyayev, and campaigned without success for him to be pardoned. She then departed the Imperial Court and became a nun, founding the Marfo-Mariinsky Convent dedicated to helping the downtrodden of Moscow. In 1918 she was arrested and ultimately executed by the Bolsheviks.
>After Sergei’s death, Elisabeth wore mourning clothes and became a vegetarian. In 1909, she sold off her magnificent collection of jewels and sold her other luxurious possessions; even her wedding ring was not spared. With the proceeds she opened the Convent of Saints Martha and Mary and became its abbess.
cont
>>413007
>She soon opened a hospital, a chapel, a pharmacy and an orphanage on its grounds. Elisabeth and her nuns worked tirelessly among the poor and the sick of Moscow. She often visited Moscow’s worst slums and did all she could to help alleviate the suffering of the poor.
>In 1918, Lenin ordered the Cheka to arrest Elisabeth. They then exiled her first to Perm, then to Yekaterinburg, where she spent a few days and was joined by others: the Grand Duke Sergei Mikhailovich Romanov; Princes Ioann Konstantinovich, Konstantin Konstantinovich, Igor Konstantinovich and Vladimir Pavlovich Paley; Grand Duke Sergei's secretary, Fyodor Remez; and Varvara Yakovleva, a sister from the Grand Duchess's convent. They were all taken to Alapayevsk on 20 May 1918, where they were housed in the Napolnaya School on the outskirts of the town.
cont
>>413010
>At noon on 17 July, Cheka officer Pyotr Startsev and a few Bolshevik workers came to the school. They took from the prisoners whatever money they had left and announced that they would be transferred that night to the Upper Siniachikhensky factory compound. The Red Army guards were told to leave and Cheka men replaced them. That night the prisoners were awakened and driven in carts on a road leading to the village of Siniachikha, some 18 kilometres (11 miles) from Alapayevsk where there was an abandoned iron mine with a pit 20 metres (66 feet) deep. Here they halted. The Cheka beat all the prisoners before throwing their victims into this pit, Elisabeth being the first. Hand grenades were then hurled down the shaft, but only one victim, Fyodor Remez, died as a result of the grenades.
>According to the personal account of Vasily Ryabov, one of the killers, Elisabeth and the others survived the initial fall into the mine, prompting Ryabov to toss in a grenade after them. Following the explosion, he claimed to have heard Elisabeth and the others singing an Orthodox hymn from the bottom of the shaft.[5] Unnerved, Ryabov threw down a second grenade, but the singing continued. Finally a large quantity of brushwood was shoved into the opening and set alight, upon which Ryabov posted a guard over the site and departed.
cont
>>413015
>On 8 October 1918, White Army soldiers discovered the remains of Elisabeth and her companions, still within the shaft where they had been murdered. Despite having lain there for almost three months, the bodies were in relatively good condition. Most were thought to have died slowly from injuries or starvation, rather than the subsequent fire. Elisabeth had died of wounds sustained in her fall into the mine, but before her death had still found strength to bandage the head of the dying Prince Ioann with her wimple. With the Red Army approaching, their remains were removed further east and to China before being ultimately taken to Jerusalem, where they were laid to rest in the Church of Maria Magdalene.
>using Cyrillic letters that resemble latin letters in place of the latin letter
why does this trigger me so hard? his name isn't fucking "Leiii"
>>413490
Because most communists have autism anon.
Seems you have fit the bill.
>implying the Bolsheviks could possibly have left a figurehead for the whites
>implying that utilizing the products of her power could undo the problems the structure that created her power made
>m-muh benevolent monarch ;_;
>subscribing to bourgoise moralism
consider killing urself my man
>>413655
>Bolsheviks dindu nuffin
>da borgugazzi is evil!
>>413667
>seriously supporting the tsar
>seriously supporting the duma
how can one man be so keked
all power to the soviets f.am
>>413655
>implying the Bolsheviks could possibly have left a figurehead for the whites
>implying some random ass duchess who has no political power is a figurehead
>implying the Whites used the Romanovs who did flee and did survive as figureheads
sure is mentally retarded in here
>>413674
>being a self destructive kek
>thinking "revolution" is good in any sense
Literally mentally retarded.
>>413703
>not knowing that all hitherto existing history is the history of class struggle
all of history is a history of revolution senpai
it's
>DIALECTICS
read some theory bb
it's thesis & antithesis you kek
>>413714
Please tell me this is more communist bait.
>>413655
>justifying murder of an innocent unarmed noncombatant young girl
wew lad
>>413743
>being a bourgeois humanist
>murder is "wrong"
>>413755
>everyone beyond this arbitrary class line is borguagziii
>therefore justifies death
Communists are mentally retarded.
>>413760
>death needs to be "justified" by my reactionary morality designed to support class structure
>all this false conscious
>all this ideology
Read Althusser
>>413776
>I can justify death because of a line in the sand
>I'm a vanguard
oh and of course
>everyone is a reactionary
Oh boy here we go.
Go shitpost in the other thread and then say
>its not worth my time
>>413743
>letting one person survive
>giving royalists someone popular to rally around that would prolong the war, killing thousands more
I bet you wouldn't even go back in time and kill hitler.
>>413793
>I bet you wouldn't even go back in time and kill hitler.
Anyone who says yes is a moron.
>tfw my commieposting started an internet fight
just another day in the life
>ITT: the most c.ucked of the classc.ucks
>>413827
>"teachings" of a classical failure
(^:
>>413785
>death needs to be "justified"
Do you even realize that morality is nothing but a product of class relations?
>>413856
Proofs?
Classes don't exist to me, they are arbitrary lines drawn in the sand.
Prove me different.
I don't know how you separate between "this man is a very poor man, this man is moderately poor, this man isn't poor, but is still kinda poor, but not as poor as the poorest" and so on.
Morality is passed down from generation to generation, slowly eroded away, commonly finding grounds in religion in practically every society to exist.
>>413898
Class is a matter of relationship to production.
Religion is also a tool of class oppression, so that's no surprise (what a coincidence that the "innocent" duchess had her hands deep in both the exploitative class and the church).
>>413912
>this man produces some arbitrary amount because I say so
>this man produces more
>here is prolitariate
>here is borguzagzii
>kill borguzgzii because oppression
>morality doesnt exist because oppression
I don't see the coherence here.
Care to explain?
>>413793
More than one Romanov survived, having fled the country. They weren't rallied around, nor did the civil war continue around them.
>>413934
>this man produces some arbitrary amount because I say so
lol you wanna talk about incoherence well here it is bruv
>>414018
Go on and explain your radical theories that have yet to be founded in reality m8.
I'm willing to listen, you don't just turn around and say
>nuh uhh!
And then stop.
>>414031
different guy bruv
like for real bruv you telling a guy he's incoherent but you yourself display such at a maximum level
like you ain't gotta be an econ major to know production is quantifiable
you ain't got be a history major to know that the terms "bourgeoisie" and "bourgeois" predate the later pejorative use
you ain't shit bruv
>>414078
I'm not trying to be shit, I just like history, if he want's to explain; or you, you can.
Sure you can try and quantify production, but where do you draw the line in the sand.
If the rich educated man sells all of his means of production and lives off of the wealth produced, but doesn't have any means of production, is he still a bourgeois?
>>414098
>sure you can count the amount of fingers on your hands but where do you draw the line in the sand????
capital ain't capital unless you getting a return from investment
if he ain't investing, he ain't getting a return, ergo he ain't a capitalist, taken as meaning "one who owns capital". He might have what are called bourgeois values, tho.
>>414131
But how do you draw that line in the sand m8. It honestly seems completely arbitrary.
Why do people have to be skewered and killed, rather than forced to cooperate?
To me it seems
>if I cant convince them
>they all are evil and I have to kill them
Nazi level stuff desu
>>413833
>'failure'
Have you changed history today, anon??
>>414166
Influence =/= success anon.
>>414176
>sucess
Seems to be a pretty vague concept, tbqh senpai
>>414148
Quantifiability is arbitrary? Like yo do you get your paycheque and stare at the numbers and wonder "what does this mean even?"
You're being incoherent again bruv
the quality of undergrads keeps dropping i tell ya what
>>414246
Joke's on you, fag, I'm unemployed. However, society has agreed that money has value just as it has agreed human life has value.
Communist revolutions for the past 100 years have been "you have X amount of power/money, therefore you must be relieved of it." And where has that gotten Communism? Jack shit nada nowhere.
>>414283
yep, and that agreement means that the porter i'm drinking is $15.97 for 6 bottles
it only seems arbitrary cuz ur unemployed senpai
lol cmon point to me where the moment where some commie said "you have such and so amount of commodities, and therefore must be relieved of it or its equivalent in cash."
like cmon man that's the most arbitrary statement itt
>>414213
To make money, etc.
>>414008
Hindsight.
In the middle of a absolutely crazy brutal back and forth civil war where at points the reds were on the absolute brink of losing, you don't take chances.
>Expecting anything exept destruction and torture from hobo chimpouts
>>415325
Yes, hindsight. We know that they didn't rally around any of the surviving family, so saying "but they would be a rallying point!" in a modern argument about why it was justified is dumb.
Also Trotsky flat out said why women, children and otherwise politically pointless people were killed, and it wasn't "we gotta make sure there's no rallying point!" It was terror. Flat out terror and horror. Both to the Bolshevik's enemies, and to the people within their own ranks.
Post yfw Trotsky and most of the "Old Bolsheviks' died horrible deaths at the hands of other Bolsheviks
>>416441
It's funny how you assume every progressive anon is a fan of all thinks hammer and sickle.
>>416485
The fact there are people ITT and elsewhere celebrating the death of innocent royal children makes me reconsider that.
>>416502
>innocent royal children
>>416507
???
>>416485
>progressive
>condones communism
Labotamize yourself
>>416533
why do people think that pointing out that the royal children were innocent means that the poor children aren't innocent?
>ONLY ONE CLASS OF CHILDREN MAY BE INNOCENT
>>413776
Literally every reply you've made in this thread is a Fucking joke.
Your dad should Have whooped your Fucking ass 2 years ago when you were 12 years old
>>416552
yet they die in thousands and you make a "communists kill children!" thread
it's like you are trying to discredit someone...like how a criminal would have a defense line that at its core would have "I 'm not the only one"...which side are you on?
>>414213
>Seems to be a pretty vague concept, tbqh senpai
Well arent you a commie? You will justify anything sensible and ungainly toward your personal ideal as vague because you dont want to put in any effort to understand another thought, you want to impose your own on others becaus eyou have a idea that you are better, which being humans are patently false. Stereotypes exist due to actual observations.
>>416588
You didn't answer the question I asked.
>>416533
Who were the children oppressing? Am I being trolled right now?
>what about
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
>>416614
yes I did, you just close your eyes
>ONCE UPON A TIME, a lovely young princess named Maria Krystyna lived in a castle, where she read books from the end to the beginning. Then came the Nazis, and after them, the Stalinists. This book is the story of her family, and so it begins with an ending.
>An hour before midnight on the eighteenth of August 1948, a Ukrainian colonel lay dead in a Soviet prison in Kiev. He had been a spy in Vienna, working first against Hitler during the Second World War and then against Stalin in the early cold war. He had eluded the Gestapo, but not Soviet counterintelligence. One day the Ukrainian colonel told colleagues that he was going out for lunch, and he was never seen in Vienna again. He was kidnapped by Red Army soldiers, flown to the Soviet Union, and interrogated beyond endurance. He died in the prison hospital and was buried in an unmarked grave.
>>416656
>The Ukrainian colonel had an older brother. He too was a colonel, he too had resisted the Nazis. For his courage, he had spent the war in German prisons and camps. The torturers of the Gestapo had left half of his body paralyzed and one of his eyes useless. Re-turning home after the Second World War, he tried to claim the family estate. The property was in Poland, and the older brother was Polish. Having been seized by the Nazis in 1939, the estate was confiscated again by the communists in 1945. Knowing that his family had a German background, his Nazi interrogators had wanted him to admit that he was racially German. This he had re-fused to do. Now he heard the same argument from the new communist regime. He was racially a German, they said, and so had no right to land in the new Poland. What the Nazis had taken, the communists would keep.
>Meanwhile, the Polish colonel's children were having problems adapting to the new communist order. In applications to medical school, his daughter had to define the family's social class. The options included working class, peasantry, and intelligentsia—the standard categories of a Marxist bureaucracy. After a long hesitation, the puzzled young lady wrote "Habsburg." This was true. The medical school applicant was the young princess, Maria Krystyna Habsburg. Her father, the Polish colonel, and her uncle, the Ukrainian colonel, were Habsburg princes, descendants of emperors, members of Europe's grandest family.
>>416626
Ohh, you're trolling. Well, that's boring.
>>413007
>The size of these numbers alone - between 10,000 and 15,000 summary executions in two months - marked a radical break with the practices of the tsarist regime. For the whole period 1825-1917 the number of death sentences passed by tsarist courts (including courts-martial) "relating to political matters" came to only 6,321, with the highest figure of 1,310 recorded in 1906, the year of reaction against the 1905 revolution. Moreover, not all death sentences were carried out; a good number were converted to forced labor. In the space of a few weeks the Cheka alone had executed two to three times the total number of people condemned to death by the tsarist regime over ninety-two years.
>>413007
dude class struggle lmao
>>416672
>I can't face the fact you have a different opinion than me which I can't refute, therefore you 're a troll
Is this supposed to be shocking? Communism was never about helping poor or "working class"
>>416830
>Communism was never about helping poor or "working class"
top kek
>>416700
No, you're a troll because you refused to answer a simple question: why is it that if someone says the royal children were innocent, people respond with 'OH, SO THE NON-ROYAL CHILDREN WEREN'T INNOCENT?! HUH?! HUH?!' when no one said that.
But I'm sure you'll respond with some ~witty edgelord retort, so I'm not sure why I'm responding.
>>416836
Nice rebuttal
>>413793
WOW THOSE ARE SOME DANK BOLSHEVIK MEMES MY COMRADE!
The whites didn't rally around the Romanovs you absolute autist. Whites =/= Monarchist, plenty of Whites were anti monarchy, they just hated the Reds more, for good reason. You can do mental gymnastics all you want, the fact is the commies you wank off to were insane bloodthirsty savages. All communists are, its a pleb ideology for the most savage, uneducated plebs.
>>416533
>what about the children who died of starvation? weren't they innocent?
Yes, and the communists killed them en mass with their poor economic policy that caused the greatest famines Russia had ever seen.
>>413655
They could of, if they weren't subhuman Marxists.
>>417282
Literally Western propaganda. You're a sap. Read Althusser and turn off your bourgeois ideology.
>>417323
>could of
And yet when someone prevents that from happening by killing a few communist revolutionaries, they are demonized as the worst villains in history.
When we will finally send the army to purge communists from schools and universities? If the capitalist ruling class is so powerful, why have they not done that yet?
>>417335
>Pinochet
>Successful economy
O I am laffin
>>417329
>western propaganda
>im form a former communist country
>you're from a western country
>believing something a rich atheist Jew made up a 100 years ago
>>416660
Post more you faggot
>>417356
Last time I checked Chile was not a communist country, so I'd say Pinochet was fairly successful. Though we will probably need someone like him again in the near future.
>>413743
“People should either be caressed or crushed. If you do them minor damage they will get their revenge; but if you cripple them there is nothing they can do. If you need to injure someone, do it in such a way that you do not have to fear their vengeance.” -Machiavelli
>>417378
>Chile was literally poorer than Peru during Pinochet
>25% unemployment
>Succesful
>>416435
No it's not.
Because AT THE TIME WHEN THESE EVENTS HAPPENED it was likely that whites would rally around other royals to excuse sabotage and attacks and embargoes on the USSR.
Again, hindsight, they didn't rally around them (likely because everyone was tired as fuck after WW1 more than anything else) but at the time, killing off the nobility was rational and justified.
I would have done it, you would have done it, anyone with a brain would have done it.
>>417555
We're not talking AT THE TIME WHEN THESE EVENTS HAPPENED. Nor are we saying "This is why they did it at the time." The person I replied to was justifying it NOW, saying that it WAS the rational thing to, because obviously they would have become rallying points--despite the fact that we know that surviving relatives didn't become rallying points.
Also, once again, Trotsky literally said why they did it, and again, it wasn't "hurr rallying point!!!"
>>417554
And look at it now! He really did wonders.
>>418472
Now they've liberalised? Exactly.
>apologizing for the Bolsheviks
>ever
Lenin literally thought workers were too stupid to run things by themselves and needed to be lorded over. He uses the phrase "unquestioning obedience" at least ten times in his writings as being required.
>the dictatorship of the proletariat shall not be desecrated by the practice of a lily-livered proletarian government.
> Everyone now readily “votes for” and “subscribes to” resolutions of this kind; but usually people do not think over the fact that the application of such resolutions calls for coercion—coercion precisely in the form of dictatorship. And yet it would be extremely stupid and absurdly utopian to assume that the transition from capitalism to socialism is possible without coercion and without dictatorship.
cont
>>418527
>Every solution that offers a middle path is either a deception of the people by the bourgeoisie—for the bourgeoisie dare not tell the truth, dare not say that they need Kornilov—or an expression of the dull-wittedness of the petty-bourgeois democrats, of the Chernovs, Tseretelis and Martovs, who chatter about the unity of democracy, the dictatorship of democracy, the general democratic front, and similar nonsense.
>The conscious (and to a large extent, probably, unconscious) representatives of petty bourgeois laxity would like to see in this granting of “unlimited” (i.e., dictatorial) powers to individuals a departure from the collegiate principle, from democracy and from the principles of Soviet government. Here and there, among Left Socialist-RevoIutionaries, a positively hooligan agitation, i.e., agitation appealing to the base instincts and to the small proprietor’s urge to “grab all he can”, has been developed against the dictatorship decree.
>here is, therefore, absolutely no contradiction in principle between Soviet (that is, socialist) democracy and the exercise of dictatorial powers by individuals.
>>418528
>But be that as it may, unquestioning subordination to a single will is absolutely necessary for the success of processes organised on the pattern of large-scale machine industry. On the railways it is twice and three times as necessary. In this transition from one political task to another, which on the surface is totally dissimilar to the first, lies the whole originality of the present situation. The revolution has only just smashed the oldest, strongest and heaviest of fetters, to which the people submitted under duress. That was yesterday. Today, however, the same revolution demands—precisely in the interests of its development and consolidation, precisely in the interests of socialism—that the people unquestioningly obey the single will of the leaders of labour.
>Dictatorship, however, presupposes a revolutionary government that is really firm and ruthless in crushing both exploiters and hooligans, and our government is too mild. Obedience, and unquestioning obedience at that, during work to the one-man decisions of Soviet directors, of the dictators elected or appointed by Soviet institutions, vested with dictatorial powers (as is demanded, for example, by the railway decree), is far, very far from being guaranteed as yet. This is the effect of the influence of petty-bourgeois anarchy
>>417335
>purge communists from the schools and universities
there would be no one left. better to just demolish them altogether
>>416603
>You will justify anything sensible and ungainly toward your personal ideal as vague because you don't want to put in any effort to understand another thought
Since when are you spying on my mind?!?!
>you want to impose your own on others because you have a idea that you are better
So, when someone states an opnion/idea, thats's what he actually does??
>Stereotypes exist due to actual observations
Okay, mate :^)
>>417335
>topples and kills a democratically elected president, which also had popular majority approval
>in truth, prevented an armed communist revolution
>>415351
>hobo jewish chimpouts
Fix'd.
>>418752
Most Bolsheviks were Russian.
>>418761
The leaders were all Jews.
>>418761
It was literally a cohort of kikes that started the revolution
>>418489
this 1000%
we should have a rule stating that outright quoting wikipedia is a bannable offense.
>>420456
What's the problem if the article itself is well sourced?
>>413007
>>420461
then quote reputable primary internet sources.
All anons have made a good start here quoting books. This should be encouraged, even if the authors and the books are completely unfounded and dumb and published by mickey mouse publications.
It's far more superior and better than wikipedia.
Claim anything you want, state whatever opinion and viewpoint you have, as long as you have one!! It means you have delved into it, you have shown interest and aren't resorting in any form of online justification.
A book claiming the elite are in reality extraterrestrials who settled Earth a thousand years ago is a million times better than a wikipedia article.
tl;dr if you want to quote, quote a book or a definite source, never wikipedia.
>>420461
There is nothing wrong with wikipedia, but it should still be cited like an thing else.
>>420474
A firsthand account from one of the murderers is used in the life of the saint.
