>>1383184
Well they probably figured they were going to have to submit to Rome so they gave up the weapons

>>1383208
Rome was becoming a juggernaut at the time but given their history, it just doesn't logically make sense.


Would Hannibal have submitted to these demands?

>>1383184
>Given how negotiation went after the first Punic War, how could the Carthaginians possibly think that giving up their weapons was a good idea?

That decision was probably made by wealthy people that could afford to hire personal security detachments to carry weapons to defend them, and their property.

When you're rich, who gives a shit about defending yourself when you can just pay somebody to do it? Who gives a fuck about "your" city, or even "your" country, when you can just take your wealth somewhere else and be rich in a different land?

Does this sound familiar? It should....

>>1383184
>The Carthaginians made a series of attempts to appease Rome
Why do we never learn from history?

>>1383184
>Would Hannibal have submitted to these demands?

Is Hannibal alive? No. Could Carthage do anything at fucking all? No.

Sad end to Carthage but there was too much spilled blood between them both for them to even pretend to be friends. The Punic wars was like WW1 and WW2 then, nobody saw wars that massive and that long. Ever.

I personally still shudder and wonder in amazement how in antiquity city states could be so powerful and yet meet their demise such as Carthage and Rome.

>>1383332
>Sad end to Carthage but there was too much spilled blood between them both for them to even pretend to be friends. The Punic wars was like WW1 and WW2 then, nobody saw wars that massive and that long. Ever.

Not sure why but I have always had a soft spot for the Carthaginians. Just reading about how Rome dealt with them makes me kinda sad. At the same time, it makes me wonder how different the world would be today if Hannibal got reinforcements and marched on Rome.

And roman fags still cry when these niggers got sacked by germans

>>1383184
>Given how negotiation went after the first Punic War, how could the Carthaginians possibly think that giving up their weapons was a good idea?

Because the Romans were experts at "diplomacy" and making it seem like you didn't have a choice.

>>1383383
>At the same time, it makes me wonder how different the world would be today if Hannibal got reinforcements and marched on Rome.
The only likely difference would be that Hannibal would have been defeated on the city's walls, sandiwiched between the defenders and the consular armies for once managing to pin him down in unfavourable (for him) ground, rather than at Zama.

>>1384562
There wasn't much resistance left outside of Rome proper. Hannibal zig-zagged the countryside for years, foraging and looting to maintain his force. I also think Hannibal could easily have won, had the Carthaginian Oligarchy lent him more support. They just did not do it, I'm not sure anyone entirely understands why.

>>1384592
>There wasn't much resistance left outside of Rome proper.
Even right after Cannae you had Marcellus roaming about with a few legions with him, Rome was at no point anywhere near defenceless.

>>1384592

Historians say that he didn't have proper Siege equipment and wouldn't have been able to keep his troops fed.

It seems as though the Carthaginian elite didn't really care much about what he was doing in the first place.

>>1383383
The siege of Carthage must have been really violent. It's one of the first record of an urban war, where people, both soldiers and civilians fight street after street, house after house, with the romans slowly progressing to the heart of the city and killing everyone on their path.

The romans were obsessed with Carthage. It was the only ennemy who was really close to destroy them and they had to erase this humiliation, and risk of the surface of the earth to be able to sleep completely at ease. The hatred was really strong, the carthaginians killed roman prisonners at the top of their walls for every roman soldier to see, sealing their fate to the fight to come

>>1384592
>had the Carthaginian Oligarchy lent him more support
They did, by sea. Scipio Calvus (Africanus' uncle) rekt them hard. They probably didn't have the means to try again after that.

How did the Carthaginians organize their troops? Because they seemed to give the Romans a serious run for their money in the Second Punic War, but when the Romans fought the Greeks in the Second Macedonian War they absolutely BTFO'd the Greek phalanx.

Did the Carthaginians employ a maniple system like the Romans did? Or did they use something else entirely than the maniple or the phalanx?

>>1383249
Hannibal wouldn't have submitted to shit, he had no power

>>1383184
Because they literally had zero chance of survival if negotiating failed.

Also, they could, and did RAPIDLY churn out weapons. Even without "weapons" the romans needed time to get into the walls.

>>1383249
Yes. In the aftermath of the second war, he told Carthage to just give Rome whatever they wanted.

>>1383332
Carthage actually ended up being a loyal and VERY productive ally after the second war.

The probe is that Rome couldn't conceive of a state not using massive wealth to fuel expansion, and this meant they felt threatened.

>>1384592
Rome had full armies in Spain and Sicily, the might of the Latin cities and Etruscans in italy, and two legions in the cit, plus the male population, who were armed and able to fight.

There was also a LOT of survivors of cannae. And army worth of them, in fact.

Hannibal was utterly incapable of taking the city, and he knew it.

>>1384625
Polybius saw it first hand, and wrote about how horrific it was. Street to street, anon.

And then roof to roof, as the able bodied hurled shit down on the soldiers. The soldiers fought through houses, threw planks down as bridges, and attacked them.

Fire raged unchecked. Buildings collapsed, and bodies rained out of them-the invalid, elderly, and young had been hidden in hollow spaces in the walls.

Men followed the advance with iron hooks, and pulled debris, the dead, and the wounded into ditches and left it all there.


It was horrific.