Why do Catholics have a cult of Mary? Why do Protestants have a cult centered around, Jesus, the lowest member of the trinity?
>>1283121
>Why do Protestants have a cult centered around, Jesus
Because we're Christians.
>>1283121
>Feel like drawing cool altars
>realize how I'm terrible at drawing all the icons
Is that supposed to be Jesus' comically sized willy or just a poorly drawn abdomen?
Because Mary is literally the most important 'normal' human in history. She made possible the Redemption.
>>1283121
lowest how?
>>1283121
>lowest member of the trinity
um... pretty sure your doctrine states that all members of the trinity are equal
>>1283133
Not according to Jesus:
"I tell you, among those born of women there is no one greater than John; yet the one who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he."
- Luke 7:28
>>1283134
I don't know what the fuck he's on about. There is no 'lowest' member of the Trinity, they're all equally God. That's what the Trinity means. This sounds like that heresy John Milton came up with.
>>1283121
Catholics worship the Queen of Heaven because they are a continuation of Mystery Babylon started by Nimrod and his wife, the Queen of Heaven, Semiramis.
Protestants were Catholics.
There have always been Christians since 32 AD, and we worship One God.
>>1283133
Wow.
I never cease to be amazed at such outright idolatry from catholics.
>>1283151
He uses a tripcode, what do you expect?
>>1283141
and that latter category of "in the kingdom of heaven" doesn't apply to mary?
Wait, lowest? Isn't claiming Jesus was a subservient component of the trinity creeping into Arianist territory?
hell = forever
>>1283156
Name one person who has given birth to more gods than her
>>1283121
Is this rhetorical? You are the most knowledgable person on this subject and you just throw it out there like any other NeckBeard. You can answer both questions better than any of us. You just like watching the fight. Wow...
>>1283154
Clement of Rome, a first century Christian likening the Christian clergy with OT priesthood
And what wonder is it if those in Christ who were entrusted with such a duty by God, appointed those [ministers] before mentioned, when the blessed Moses also, "a faithful servant in all his house," noted down in the sacred books all the injunctions which were given him, and when the other prophets also followed him, bearing witness with one consent to the ordinances which he had appointed? For, when rivalry arose concerning the priesthood, and the tribes were contending among themselves as to which of them should be adorned with that glorious title, he commanded the twelve princes of the tribes to bring him their rods, each one being inscribed with the name of the tribe. And he took them and bound them [together], and sealed them with the rings of the princes of the tribes, and laid them up in the tabernacle of witness on the table of God. And having shut the doors of the tabernacle, he sealed the keys, as he had done the rods, and said to them, Men and brethren, the tribe whose rod shall blossom has God chosen to fulfil the office of the priesthood, and to minister unto Him. And when the morning had come, he assembled all Israel, six hundred thousand men, and showed the seals to the princes of the tribes, and opened the tabernacle of witness, and brought forth the rods. And the rod of Aaron was found not only to have blossomed, but to bear fruit upon it. What think ye, beloved? Did not Moses know beforehand that this would happen? Undoubtedly he knew; but he acted thus, that there might be no sedition in Israel, and that the name of the true and only God might be glorified; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.(Chp 43)
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1010.htm
>>1283151
The entire concept of the trinity is made up anyway.
Imperial Romans needed to be weaned off of Isis worship slowly
>>1283300
Izanami?
There is a formal hierarchy of the Trinity, but there is no essentially hierarchy; that is, the Son is begotten eternally of the Father (there was no "time" before the Son was begotten), but all things that can be said of the Father apply to the Son. All existences of the Trinity share a single being, they have one "mind" among them; if you worship one, you worship all, OP, and Orthodox certainly have profuse images of Christ because you can't really have images of the other existences of the Trinity. If you go into an Orthodox Church, and look up, Christ's face is on the interior of the dome, ruling from heaven.
In other words, OP is either sacrilegiously joking, or extremely ignorant.
>>1284569
now I'm counting 4 Constantines including the ones from the other thread
I'd also point out that while Catholic veneration of the Theotokos is blasphemous in certain terms (like co-mediator), frequent and high veneration of the Theotokos is a good thing. The Orthodox venerate the Theotokos as well, we kiss her icon every time we come to Liturgy, and during Liturgy we praise her and ask for her prayers. Most Orthodox alters have an large icon of her above them, with Christ sitting on her lap (like the Ark of the old Covenant, the Ark of the new Covenant is referred to as the Throne of God).
>>1283121
this is good b8
>>1284601
>I'd also point out that while Catholic veneration of the Theotokos is blasphemous in certain term
nope
>>1284610
1 Timothy 2:5
>>1284610
The church has never formally approved that title as doctrine
Daily reminder that Martin Luther broke his VOW of celibacy to marry a nun (who also broke her vow).
If one of the founders of Protestantism isn't considered evil, then I don't know what is.
>>1284673
Nothing wrong with that.
Celibacy was a dumb idea to begin with.
>>1283121
Jesus has a boner lol.
>>1283123
>Protestants
>Real Christians
>>1284661
The Vatican has been using it for a while, and it has been in use in the RCC for hundreds of years, without any significant opposition. That makes it dogma, dogma doesn't come into existence with codification, codification is just a was to protect dogma from being attacked.
>>1284628
co-mediator means "with the mediator". Stay mad schismatic
>>1284628
Mary is not a mediator in the sense Jesus is
>>1284841
Already addressed this in an earlier post
>Mediatrix is the feminine nominative form of mediator in Latin. If it was meant as you say it is, the word would be mediatori (masculine dative)
>>1284843
Which is?
>>1284847
>>1284849
she is the mediatrix of graces, in the sense that graces before reaching earth pass through her hands. That is why she is always depicted with rays coming out of her hands.
That's it. She is not a mediator in the general sense of the word.
>>1284861
So God's sustaining grace, which comes from the Father, through the Son, and in the Holy Spirit, now comes through the Father, through the Son and Mary, and in the Holy Spirit?
>>1284871
*from the Father, through the Son and Mary
>>1283121
>the lowest member of the trinity
Didn't know you were a heretic as well as a tranny constantine
>>1284871
She does not direct the graces, the graces merely pass through her. She is called the spouse of the Holy Spirit for a reason, after all.
>>1284893
She's called the spouse of the Holy Spirit because the Holy Spirit impregnated her.
Does the grace that sustains her existence pass through her first before it gets to her as well?
I still don't understand how Catholicism isn't functionally - not necessarily in the abstract, just in general practice - polytheistic. I'm not a Christian so I have no dog in this fight but it seems to me like asking saints for a favor is pretty much the same thing as asking a patron god for a favor if you ignore the rationalization behind the act. Some little old barely literate Mexican peasant lady praying to a statue of the virgin Mary is praying to the statue and to the virgin Mary, not to God.
>>1283121
>Why do Protestants have a cult centered around, Jesus, the lowest member of the trinity?
>the lowest member of the trinity
Cause Subordinationism is a heresy that was condemned at the council of nicea, my uneducated /b/rother in Christ.
>>1284718
The last pope acutally said that in is too different from the language the church fathers used, and that creates "misunderstandings"
Dont apply your definitions to the catholic church, you know that is not how they define dogma
>>1286139
The last Pope made much use of the title, he never said what you ascribe to him.
>>1283154
>he thinks Catholics worship Mary or saints
Oh look, it's time for the daily meme shitposting.
>>1287758
>"it's not worship if I call it veneration"
>>1287744
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Co-Redemptrix
Another argument, though by no means the only one, is that it would also complicate ecumenical efforts for a better understanding of the role of the Blessed Virgin Mary in the salvation mystery of Jesus Christ.[3]
In August 1996, a Mariological Congress was held in Częstochowa, Poland, where a commission was established in response to a request of the Holy See. The congress sought the opinion of scholars present there regarding the possibility of proposing a fifth Marian dogma on Mary as Co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix and Advocate. The commission unanimously declared that it was not opportune, voting 23-0 against the proposed dogma.[20][21]
By 1998 it was doubtful the Vatican was going to consider new Marian dogmas. The papal spokesman stated "This is not under study by the Holy Father nor by any Vatican congregation or commission".[21] A leading Mariologist stated the petition was "theologically inadequate, historically a mistake, pastorally imprudent and ecumenically unacceptable".[22] Pope John Paul II cautioned against "all false exaggeration",[23] his teaching and devotion to Mary has strictly been "exalting Mary as the first among believers but concentrating all faith on the Triune God and giving primacy to Christ."[22] When asked in an interview in 2000 whether the Church would go along with the desire to solemnly define Mary as Co-Redemptrix, then-Cardinal Ratzinger (later Pope Benedict XVI) responded that,
the formula “Co-redemptrix” departs to too great an extent from the language of Scripture and of the Fathers and therefore gives rise to misunderstandings...Everything comes from Him [Christ], as the Letter to the Ephesians and the Letter to the Colossians, in particular, tell us; Mary, too, is everything she is through Him. The word “Co-redemptrix” would obscure this origin. A correct intention being expressed in the wrong way.[24]
all sourced by the way so dont complain about wiki
>>1283121
Can we just ban tripfag already
>another quality post from our educated and insightful trip friend
>>1287758
>It's not idolatry when we do it.
>>1287854
1853: Mary is just a young Jewish girl chosen by the Father to bear the Son. Blessed among women.
1854: MARY IS THE QUEEN OF HEAVEN SINLESS DID NOT DIE IMMACULATE CONCEPTION PRAY TO HER FOR YOUR SOUL OMGWTFWEPAGANNOW
What a difference a year makes.
>>1283121
that is some real dank heresy right there
>>1287915
What did Jesus say about whoring yourself out for attention on an anonymous Japanese cartoon pornography board?
>>1288044
Uh, look, dude, if I wanted attention, I'd go for real life, where I can get very positive, personal attention. Posting on 4chan is about attention to my posts, not attention to me as a person.
>>1283121
Why do you constantly try to pick a fight with us Catholics? You are our brothers in God!
>>1288078
If your posts were of quality content they'd be sufficient enough to attract readership, and you wouldn't have to flash a faggy trip to catch people's eyes.
>I can get very positive, personal attention.
kek, I'm sure you do
>>1283130
shooped
>>1288089
Gay post
>>1288158
NO U
>>1284069
Except it isn't
>>1287915
Constantine, you know as well as anyone that Catholicism and Orthodoxy are old things. They reach back through time and so they understand things differently than we do today.
So, then, why shouldn't Mary's giving birth to God himself grant her special status as an intercessor? This seems logical according to the old ways of the world, the old ways of gods and men. God is not the common gods, true, but there may be something of their workings in his way of doing things, since of course he himself is oldest of all, so oldest he has no age.
The point is that Mary as first intercessor among equals seems to be fitting in the ancient way. She has a physical, biological prerogative. She literally gave birth to God. Surely this would accord her special status. That is how the world used to work. It's an old-fashioned thing, but our religions are both very old-fashioned. It makes sense.
>>1283121
It is natural for people to look for the feminine in God, and when viewing Mary as a saint, we look for intercession of motherly quality with the divine. This is not actual "worship Mary only" everyone obviously knows God is above Mary and Mary is not being worshipped as a god, rather it is through intercession and veneration of a saint that Christians expand their experience.
Also to call Jesus the lowest member of the Trinity makes less sense when all three parts of the Trinity have an equal role:
God the Father is the explanation of creation and the ways of wisdom and all the teachings, scriptures and metaphysical aspects, while the Word of Christ is the Way to new life. These teachings go longer than the way they appear on the surface when applied. The Holy Spirit can be experienced in all life.
>>1283121
>implying any part of the Trinity is less important than any other
Je vous salue Marie, pleine de grâce, le Seigneur est avec vous.
Bénite être-vous sur tout les femmes et Jésus, le fruit de vos entrailles est bénit.
Saint Marie, mère de Dieu, priez pour nos pauvre pêcheurs maintenant est à l'heure de notre mort. Amen.
>>1283121
Because the dont believe the way you do.
Bigoted twat.
>>1288627
Oh but it is.
