I realized that CS meme is just hit or miss. Some guys are lucky to get their internships at huge companies during 3rd-4th years, some guys just webdev, some guys go full NEET. But in the end it's basically hit or miss. You either get good internships or you are doomed in the first 5-10 years after graduation until you are considered "experienced" by those huge companies. Then it's your knowledge + luck again in the interviews.
>>54706537
Is it luck or is it your inability to code?
>>54706537
>Some guys are lucky to get their internships at huge companies during 3rd-4th years
Fuck off pajeet. You shouldn't have went to a Java mill
>not lying about experience
top wew I have been getting endless emails for interviews that I hardly have the time to respond to
>>54706537
>I'll just sign up for college like my parents told me to and everything will work out
TL, DR; life is what you make of it.
Maybe the problem is you guys have such high expectations? Not everybody is going to work at the "big 4" or make 90k straight out of school. A lot of us will probably only make 45k at some shit company straight out and that is OK. You are still making three times as much than a typical retail fag and more than warehouse fags who have to bust their ass working 70 hrs a week to get to 45k.
>>54707275
>Not everybody is going to work at the "big 4" or make 90k straight out of school
Is 90k a lot? None of my offers were that low when I graduated
>>54707305
90k is pretty damn high in 90% of the united states. Perhaps you live in California?
>>54706537
OH JEESUS IT'S ALMOST LIKE THE REST OF LIKE OMG
>>54707305
We ain't talking rupees, Rahul
>born in third world
>fucked up forever with shit tier internships
>making 200 a month working for a school both as a teacher and a programmer
>12 hours a day, 6 days a week
Fell for the meme.
Good thing John may be able to go and do the internship at Microsoft that daddy got for him.
>>54707149
This and some of
>>54707275
>>54707502
haha yep! keep deluding yourself that it wasn't your own damn shortcomings that put you in your current situation!
>>54707621
Sup john
>>54706537
>Some guy just go web dev
That comment shows how little you know, fucking web dev jobs vary a shit ton in pay especially if you go back end.
>>54706537
I'm about to sign a €90k/yr software dev position in the next few months
btw I'm self taught ;)
>>54706537
>luck
>There are people naive enough to think that 3/4th years actually get headhunted based on 'ability'
Some guys daddies know people
>>54707429
I'm making 100k in the South as a new grad fag. Stop deluding yourself these jobs don't exist and actually look it up.
>>54708118
What were the resources you used and languages you learned? I'm hoping to take this path. Started with CodeAcademy and now doing an edx Python cs course and planning to do the C equivalent after.
>>54707275
what's the big four?
>>54708337
I did the codecademy python course in 2012-2013 but it didn't click for me. I made some programs, gradually improving and rewriting them with new stuff I had learnt.
What you'll find is that most companies will tell you to fuck off if you don't have an education or some piece of paper, even if you get to the interview a la you took part of some application contest, which many companies organize(happened to me twice). You can try a boot camp or take some community college classes. Make sure there's a SQL course there, employers love that entity-relationship model thing.
>>54708118
>I'm about to sign a €90k/yr software dev position in the next few months
Which country?
>>54708441
Google Microsoft Apple and ... Facebook?
>>54708554
.ch
>>54708533
Good to know thanks. I actually am working on a PhD in an unrelated field because I wanted to do some research but after I finish I want a non academic job. Not sure if that helps me or makes me look fickle.
>>54708693
Shit's expensive there too.
>>54708693
Makes sense then, literally the only country in jewrope that pays that much. Here in Scandinavia 3-4k/month is considered good pay
>>54708739
it's a meme to keep foreigners out
the taxes are super low, stuff costs a bit more but it's still better compared to what welfare nations like germoney take as tax from you if you make that much
>>54708751
it would be potentially more in Zürich, even more so with 7+ years experience
>>54708533
>>54708700
https://www.udacity.com/nanodegree
Courses by google, Amazon and all the other big companies. It costs 200$ a month, but you get a shiny piece of paper from Google that says you know shit.
>>54708816
My parents actually live in Zurich and supposedly I'm going to try get a job there once I finish university.
>>54708816
>it's a meme to keep foreigners out
Just like your meme language schweizerdeutsch ;^)
>>54708816
It's not gonna work, I am either gonna emigrate there or the US when I finish my degree.
>>54708751
>3-4k/month in Scandinavia is good pay
What?
I finished my MSc in Computer Science in 2009 and my first job was around 550K NOK a year, and I definitely wasn't among the top of my class.
>>54708958
Are you dumb? 550k nok is only 4.4k euro/month, considering your living costs you're pretty poor
>>54708901
Thanks I'll check this out too.
So If I manage to earn 90k in usa, how low can I go if I live alone and very frugal in annually spending?
I want to see how much I can save - once I reach the number I feel ok with, going to use all the money for charity - helping disabled and poor people that can't help back.
>tfw physics degree
i fucked up /g/ents
>>54709219
Stallman has a physics Ph.D and programmed a ton of GNU shit
I'm not even done with my degree and I already know my life is gonna be shit working in CS. I should have become an anime historian.
>>54709219
>Nearly 0 unemployment rate
>relatively high pay
>employers will suck your dick because Supply and Demand in this field is in your favor
More like you did everything right
>>54709332
Who employs people with Physics Ph.Ds?
>>54709366
Universities, Public and private research centres, banks, most places that also employ engineers, in most universities(at least in my country) you also learn how to code so also IT companies and many other.
And if there really is nothing else left you can still work in a TV show.
>>54709366
Banks, banks love people who have done physics. They re educate them into investment bankers and shit. they think that if youve done physic equations then economy is childsplay.
>>54707429
Then you got lucky. The average pay for a developer NATIONALLY is 80k. That's not just grads.
That, or more likely, you're lying.
what computer degrees have the best employment rates anons? i really wanna get into CS but the prospects look shit
>>54709219
>tfw I switched major from physics to philosophy
>tfw went from nobody wanting me to offers up the ass
>You either get good internships or you are doomed in the first 5-10 years after graduation until you are considered "experienced" by those huge companies
So is your only criteria for success working at The Big Three? Because if that's the case, then of course it makes sense that most people won't be successful. Google cannot hire literally every graduate fresh out of college across the entire world. But it has never been easier to get a job in this industry, ESPECIALLY if you are willing to make changes in your own life such as not living anywhere near the coasts. Austin TX, for example, has the fastest growing tech industry in the country right now. You can get the same salary as someone who lives in Silicon Valley, and pay half (if not less than) what they do in rent and cost of living.
The vast majority of people who complain that they can't find a job these days are college grads who want a $150k job in the most competitive area of the country with nothing more than a piece of paper that says they've completed the bare minimum work to enter the industry.
>99.99% of the industry works outside of "those huge companies"
>Spent 4 years of your life on the bet that you were good enough to be part of that 0.001%
You probably would have had better odds just putting all of your tuition money on a power-ball drawing desu.
>>54708118
me on the bottom
>>54709674
Who's giving you offers with a philosophy degree? Serious question I'm working on my MA in philosophy.
>>54707275
yeh but the fact that you are making less money than your peers that you studied side by side with, is proof that you are a less capable dev/engineer.
>tfw it's like you've been stamped incompetent
>>54708583
Amazon, not Facebook.
>>54709228
He dropped out from the PhD to become a full time researcher at MIT.
I have a CS degree and currently a NEET. Locally, the companies rather out source their dev work to Pajeet in India or you need to have 5+ years experience in their tech stack. I haven't had much luck getting interviews from out of state companies, they tend to be flooded with applications for junior positions.
>>54706537
>Some guys just web dev
I make $90k in the Midwest, and not even Chicago mind you, doing front end dev, and I only started three years ago. This is not in any way a bad or even average salary.
>>54707488
>he thinks 90k is a lot
Shouldn't have went to a Java mill, pajeet
>>54710894
>they tend to be flooded with applications for junior positions
With a degree and no experience, all you're qualified for are junior positions. If you can't find any work, your best bet is to contribute to open source projects or build your own applications for your resume.
>>54710754
This logic works if they're two people in the same city at the same company doing the same work, one making more and one making less. Reality is not often so simple. A person making $50k/yr in Podunk, Missouri has the same disposable income as their peer making $110k in San Francisco.
>>54709674
Can confirm. I get more offers than I can respond to.
http://www.nytimes.com/1997/12/26/business/philosophers-find-the-degree-pays-off-in-life-and-in-work.html?pagewanted=all
I didn't intern at all and I got a software engineering job right out of school. I also live right between DC and Baltimore and Northern VA isn't too bad a drive either. I wasn't exactly hurting in terms of places to look.
>>54711048
>your best bet is to contribute to open source projects or build your own applications for your resume.
I already have contributions to a couple of open source projects and several projects on github.
>>54711053
>1997 fluff piece
Is a military internship good to have if I wanna make bank after I graduate?
>>54711222
Internships will help you get interviews.
It will not get you a job.
It will not improve your salary
>>54711243
If I have previous experience in the field working I should get a higher salary, no?
>>54711272
No.
>>54711293
gay
>>54711293
Well at least it'll help me get interviews. I need that with my shit grades
>>54707305
90k is poverty in the Bay Area, but the vast majority of the US, it's enough to buy a house, a piece of land, a nice car, and live very comfortably.
>>54711419
Yep, it's all relative. Making $90k in the Midwest is like making $200k in San Francisco.
What's the difference between IT and CS?
Which one is the worse choice?
>>54706537
Oh wow, it's almost as if simply doing a degree doesn't get you where you want to be.
If you're not earning good money before your degree, you'll earn the same after it. If you're doing a second degree, you've made all kinds of fucked up mistakes. If you're doing a third...oh baby.
>>54711559
IT = Help support. You tell people how to turn off their routers to fix their network problems. The peak of your career would be a system administrator, which is basically the same thing but you tell business users to restart their servers to fix their network problems.
For all intents and purposes, CS is actually CE at 99% of institutions in the States. Genuine CS courses focus very little on practical application since it's a field about the science of computing, while most curriculum are actually just job mills for programmers.
>>54707077
>tfw intro class was in java
>tfw data structures 1 was in C++, data structures 2 was in java
>>54708441
A term he made up. If you say "the big four" people will think of the big four accounting firms which are KPMG, PWC, E&Y, and Deloitte.
>>54711586
Do IT people never program? Isn't programming basically implementing the science done by CS guys?
>>54709560
It really depends on the school you're looking at. If you go to a decent school the average tends to be higher. There are a lot of shitty schools pumping out cs students too.
>>54711559
They can both mean a lot of things:
IT is usually more related with sysadmin, database management and application architecture. They usually get payed very well because they work in management positions.
CS is just that, computer science, learn how a computer works, compiler theory, algorithms, data structures, that sort of thing. If you stay in academia you will not get that high of a salary, outside of it if you are very good you can make crazy money as a consultant.
Then there is software engineering which is sort of half way between them... Thus if you are good with people and a good programmer in the whole sense of the word you will also make good money.
The 3 of them are good if you like this sort of things, if you are more of a manager go with IT, if you are more of a nerd go with CS, if you are not sure go for SE.
>>54711700
>Do IT people never program?
Rarely. If so it's just going to be configuration scripts and that sort of thing.
>Isn't programming basically implementing the science done by CS guys?
yes, this is done by Software Engineers (SE)
>>54711700
Not really.
IT = Tech support
Developer/Engineer = Creating software
Computer Scientist = Academics
An equivalent analogy might be construction. Developers and engineers are the laborers who build it, the IT people are the plumbers and electricians who come in every once in a while and fix stuff, and the Computer Scientists are the Physicists who studied the mathematics and formula that allows the laborers to do their work.
So how long after coming out from school, if you don't find a job, you should kill yourself?
>>54711777
>>54711782
So have I wasted my life on Cisco, Microsoft courses, etc? Should I cancel everything and get into CS?
>>54711777
>>54711782
These guys have no idea what they're talking about fyi.
>>54707275
>45k
Meanwhile someone at Stanford partying through the degree gets 300k starting.
guess this means i should take the paid summer internship i've been offered
>>54711913
>Meanwhile someone at Stanford partying through the degree gets 300k starting.
You sound insecure senpai. Kids that go to facebook earn like 200-250k total comp but those kids are definitely brilliant.
>>54712041
Why didn't you go to facebook anon? Are you one of those mediocre loser types?
>>54712155
Yeah I wasn't as good honestly. Still making 6 figures so I don't mind too much senpai. Rather go to Seattle than Cali.
>>54711851
How could you take a single Cisco or Microsoft course and think that would be anything but a career as a tech support?
>>54712041
>>54712155
>tfw a classmate who I would help with JavaScript now works at Facebook doing JavaScript while I am a NEET.
>>54712041
I actually got hired solely because I know who works here. Not that some people aren't super smart, but most people here are just normal guys who knew someone or got a good interview day.
If you can't get a job with a CS degree its because you're probably socially retarded.
The skillset is in demand, but if you set off the interviewer's skeevy weirdo alarm you're not going to get hired based on a "culture fit".
>>54712714
>its because you're probably socially retarded
You don't say?
How much of a difference would it make anyway if they hired a socially awkward employee instead of a glib one?
>>54712799
>How much of a difference would it make anyway
they're making sure you don't shoot up the place after someone laughs at you for being a complete autist and they end up having to pay millionaire compensations for not having detected you're a psycho in the interview
>>54712799
Being able to communicate at work is a mandatory requirement for employment anywhere. If you can't work with people, why would they hire you to work with people?
If you are socially retarded, you can either learn to NOT be socially retarded, start your own business that doesn't require interacting with others, or just waste away in poverty until your inevitable suicide.
Can I still work at google or apple if I had one bad year of real shit grades?
I retook all those courses and got A's but I want to work at a dank tech company
>>54711782
Lol every once in a while.
That is a massive understatement.
Most Enterprise or business applications require constant care and feeding (monitoring the system, upgrades and the like) to keep it running.
In IT I made more than most devs at my company. Why because at the end of the day someone has to keep all the shitty programs devs make running.
>>54714317
even pajeets without a CS degree can get a job at those places. You need to be a monkey and memorize every single question in Cracking the Coding Interview book
>>54707122
oh god.. i started college 3 years because my parrents always signed me up
the only contact I had it with was the first day to look at the other fags and then reversed back to my job
truth to be told, i enjoyed the student pluses anyway (ISIC cards offers, can live in student dorms,...)
>>54712799
If they hired autists, nothing would ever get done. You need to be able to communicate and interact with people.
>>54714815
>even pajeets without a CS degree can get a job at those places
max howell couldn't
>some guys just webdev
Apart from the feeling of inferiority you get when comparing yourself to people who do actual programming, making CRUD web sites isn't too bad. It also gives you a lot of normalfag cred, since normalfags love the internet.
>>54712961
>you're a psycho
;_;
>>54712799
Depends on the job, and the manager. If it is a position that requires no social interaction and just being a code monkey all day it is possible to be hired while being socially retarded. It is better to fix your issues though because the jobs for the socially retarded generally pay less, and have long cheap overtime. That is because employers know socially retarded people won't say shit about the hours or pay.
>>54716794
you can't fix being an introvert
>>54716794
>That is because employers know socially retarded people won't say shit about the hours or pay.
Socially retarded people don't necessarily even give a shit. I'm happy being paid enough so I can live in my small apartment and pay for my manchild hobbies along with bills and food. I also happen to like my job so who cares really.
>>54716794
if you're not a codemonkey do you talk all day?
>>54716838
If you're in a managerial position then you do talk
>>54716838
No, but you are expected to interact with other staff during business meetings. Depending on the position you might also have to talk to clients.
>>54716812
When I say socially retarded I don't mean introversion, I mean full on autism levels. The only job they can get are jobs where they can be shoved in a corner where no one will see or hear them.
Do you even submit your CVs if you don't have all the required skills? I'm mental bout that kind of shit. If it's like 7/8 requirements fulfilled, but the 8th is "A good sense of humor" I can't apply.
>>54716886
You should always submit anyways.
>>54716892
what if 8th requirement is having a github or 15+ years of iOS development experience?
>>54708118
me on the top
rich Zheng Lu's and Pajeets on the bottom
>>54716905
You're expected to work on multiple projects simultaneously. The reason that you get absurd years like that is because you count concurrent projects. If an applicant doesn't realize this then theyre likely someone we don't want anyways.
>>54708901
>Mooc's
lol, retard magnets
>>54716905
Applying doesn't cost you anything but a small amount of your time. You lose nothing but can win a lot (a job) by applying. Even if they don't pick you there's a small chance they'll keep your CV on file and consider you for some other position.
>>54710894
you're just addicted to the NEET lifestyle because you hide from the ridicule and shame
>>54716938
that's borderline lying
>>54716944
>there's a small chance they'll keep your CV on file and consider you for some other position.
yeah and all those small chances should add up and give you a bigger chance in the long run right? Nope, they just use your email to send you spam afterwards.
>apply to company
>no response
>company puts up a billboard in your area, advertising their careers page
>mfw how often do you see a software company putting up a billboard of their careers page
>tfw they don't want you even in their desperation
>>54716993
>>54716938
What do you think they mean when they ask for 10+ years experience with an environment that's only been around for 6? Many people work multiple contract jobs simultaneously. It's very common. If you don't you just aren't very skilled anyways
>>54716998
hostgator?
>>54717012
>What do you think they mean when they ask for 10+ years experience with an environment that's only been around for 6?
that they're retarded and should be avoided
>>54717012
no, It means that they let the HR department write the req themselves, based on a prioritized list of skills or some vague shit
>>54711628
Holy shit I know this feel
Teaching ref/pointer heavy data structures in Java is retarded
>>54716470
Web dev is only as boring as you make it.
>>54717012
>work 1000 projects at once
>get 1000 days of experience every day
>>54708751
In balkans 1.5k is considered good
>>54716794
Okay so in your mind
talking about bullshit all day = getting work done
but
not talking and working != getting work done
weeeeeeew lad!
Chem engineering here. My future will be as a basement dweller until my parents kick me out, and that point I will become a hobo (or just an hero). The problem is that I can't even graduate without some internship first.
>>54718625
>chem engineering
start baking supermans and other shit, hey you could even get coca seeds and make your own cocaine if you're feeling brave
>>54717723
I never said it was boring, I like my job
>>54717725
>"work on a project" means "change one line of code"
>have a 1000 nearly identical projects created with a bash script
>have a cron job do the line changing and committing to github
>>54710798
Is IBM no longer relevant?
>>54707502
iktf mate
here there are no internships unless you are studying at an expensive private college
my parents are not rich and I study at a 'normal' college here. everyday I want to kill myself
>>54718625
Purdue grad here, not in Chem E though.
What are you doing wrong? Literally EVERY engineer got snatched up faster than you say "cum on face, OP".
Except the ones who were obviously shit and had no initiative to do the work.
>>54711984
yes
but I did an internship and got no job still lmao
The only ones who don't get the good internships are the antisocial retards. Sure they're great at coding and probably better than I was at the time, but 90% of getting a job these days is just knowing people, and when you don't talk or socialize you don't really have an opportunity to meet people.
Almost everyone in my program got placed in a internship, the only people who actually kept their jobs were the people who socialized well and the women. Everyone else(from what I remember) was told to fuck off. They're not just hiring some coworker. They're hiring the guy who they have to spend literally more time with in a week than their family.
>>54706537
why would a company hire you when they can just post the job on freelancer?
>inb4 pajeet cant code.
then pajeet dont get paid until the project is complete.
>>54718717
Nope, they are mostly known for doing shitty expensive contract work now.
>>54708751
It's still enough muneh in Switzerland.
uneducated/non-uni salary is like 36-48k/year here.
Starting salary for EEs is normally around 84k - and that's out of ETHZ, which is pretty comparable to MIT
>>54706537
Good. Soon you'll realize that the whole education is a meme for these very same reasons. It's just a test for companies to see how determined and stable you are, because the stuff people are taught is outdated and they'll have to learn what to do on site anyway.
>>54719319
That's in Swiss francs btw, so subtract 10% for yuros.
>>54706537
Tony never had the makings of a varsity athlete.
>>54719334
I love you. You've restored my hope for humanity.
>>54719373
>>54717012
they want the alpha users
OP have faith. I'm a terrible programmer, yet I still managed to find a way. Granted, I won't be using my degree, but I'm thankful for that. If you can program better than I can, I have faith you can find some kind of job.
>>54707488
Top kek
I work for a medium sized IT company for 5 years. For the entire time I could choose my own hours and could work on my project without too much influence from a manager.
I did a good job. Now I'm a manager.
No regrets about not going to Google or whatever. In fact, I would probably want to kill myself if I worked for Google. I probably don't get paid as much as a manager at Google but my work / life balance is incredible.
People who chase only after the really big companies or use employment in these companies as a metric of success are incredibly stupid / immature. These big IT companies literally use their "prestige" as a tool to underpay and exploit their employees (much like the Big 4 accounting firms).
>>54719270
How the mighty have fallen
>>54719438
>These big IT companies literally use their "prestige" as a tool to underpay
but google and friends® salary offerings are literally top notch anon, esp for new grads.
>>54717725
thats 3+ years everyday
