/gcg/ - Graphics Cards and Display General: #055
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Official Thread #055: The "Ten Eighty" Edition
Good Morning,
This thread is to consolidate graphics card and display technologies discussion to reduce unnecessary thread clutter on /g/. Let's also keep the shilling to a minimum, no-one fucking cares.
Direct any and all questions regarding Graphics Cards and Display Adapters here first, including purchase and sale questions:
Use >>>/g/gcg/
For non-related questions, link to find the stupid questions thread:
>>>/g/sqt
Support questions should be directed to >>>/wsr/, as per /g/'s sticky. Or just fucking Google it instead of shitposting.
The GTX 1080 and its reviews are released tomorrow.
In the news:
>DOOM has a suspicious lean towards Nvidia in its benchmarks. The culprit seems to be the game defaulting to OpenGL 4.3 instead of the more efficient 4.5 no matter which settings when running with an AMD display adapter:
https://twitter.com/idSoftwareTiago/status/731269988242202624
http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/gpu_displays/doom_pc_performance_review/8
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>id software
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>2012 API's
>AMD launching Polaris at Computex:
http://videocardz.com/59947/amd-to-launch-polaris-10-at-computex
http://www.tweaktown.com/news/52124/amd-launching-next-gen-polaris-10-based-radeon-400-series-computex/index.html
If you find any news, post it below! Try to get at least two sources first!
Budget crown:AMD RTG Radeon R9 380X
Performance crown:Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 [pending]
/GCG/'s Choice:Nvidia GeForce GTX 1070 [pending peer review]
Buyer Guides:
>GPU's
www.logicalincrements.com
www.pcpartpicker.com
>Monitors/Displays
https://pcmonitors.info
Logical Increments happily accepts suggestions, comments, and criticisms. Falco Paunch!
Drivers:
http://support.amd.com/en-us/download
http://www.nvidia.com/Download/index.aspx?lang=en-us
Thankyou.
17/05
1080 reviews when?
Polaris reviews when?
Upgrading my R9 280x DC2
I fell for the 6700k meme and sold my 2500k sandy bridge. So my 6700k needs a decent GPU.
Fanboys aside.
1080 (Ti)?
or buy Polaris / wait for Vega?
It's the fucking same story EVERY FUCKING YEAR. HELP ME
Should I sell my R9-290 for $289 and get a GTX1070 for $435?
>>54595396
How do you plan on getting $289 for a 290? You can buy them new for less
Do we have any performance numbers for Polaris 11 yet?
>Budget crown:
>AMD RTG Radeon R9 380X
GTX 1050 soon...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzpQuGIDvwQ
>mfw nvidia
>>54595422
>GTX 1050 soon.
>soon
In a year, maybe.
We'll have the r7 470 in just a couple of weeks and it'll deliver GTX 970 performance for half the price.
So is the difference between the 1070 and 1080 going to be noticeable?
Also, anyone else own the Dell UltraSharp 34" and care to comment on it?
>>54595444
Watched that.... fuck Nvidia Marketing.
It's just a bumped Maxwell. I don't mind that, but they have to sell it like that then.
>>54595484
But Adored is a major AMD fanboy.
>>54595486
hes obviously touched.
Lets talk about this video instead
>Pascal came out of nowhere
>Volta is still the real next gen card
Why are nvidia blowing their load early?
>>54595486
>High end game pc
>includes 980Ti
Yeah... great fanboy :)
>>54595513
he shills AMD all the time in his videos. But even an AMD fanboy couldn't pick the fury over a 980ti.
Can't wait for 1080ti + Dell P4317Q combo.
>>54595450
Oh wow. Might be going AMD then since they will release their budget cards earlier.
Also, if the 470 might be in 970 performance, how bout the 1050?
>>54595377
>1080 reviews when?
Tomorrow. I already said this in the OP
>Polaris reviews when?
The launch date for Polaris will be announced at computex, also said in the OP
>1080 (Ti)?
>or buy Polaris / wait for Vega?
Vega and the Ti will both probably be very nice. But its all rumor for now.
>>54595396
Yes
>>54595415
No. Rumors say Polaris will probably be a laptop part though. Low tier cards will more than likely be small Polaris 10.
>>54595444
Get that shill shit out of here. AdoredTV is sensationalist fucking cancer. Nice trips though.
>>54595470
It'll be the same as the 980 and 970 were.
>>54595400
I live in Eastern Europe and cryptocurrency miners are willing to pay a premium.
>>54595539
>It'll be the same as the 980 and 970 were.
I never looked into them, to be honest, friend. Care to expand on that?
>>54595529
>mfw just bought a 390 2 days ago
>hasnt even arrived yet
WELP
E
L
P
Shits overpriced here anyway
The real /gcg/ approved item would be a $450 980ti from eBay
>GTX 1080
>256-bit memory bus
>Barely 20% faster at 4K than 980 TI
Nvidia are finished
>>54595583
>buying videocards used
NOPE
>>54595591
>64rops
>Driver extenetions and no hardware a sync scheduler
Its literally a 1080p memecard it still sucks at 4k
Whats the point of blazing fast 1080p when 2560x1440 and 4k performance fucking suck ass?
30 MINS
>>54595377
>It's the fucking same story EVERY FUCKING YEAR. HELP ME
i'm still using a gtx780, desperately need to upgrade now that gimpworks is turning everything to shit
was about to buy a 980ti a couple months ago until i saw all the "new shit soon" launch rumours
>>54595609
There is no point to that card. It's overkill for 1080p and way too weak for bigger resolutions.
>>54595563
About ~20-25% difference in performance. If Nvidia doesn't fuck up the 1070 like last time.
>>54595583
The guide isn't deal specific, only normal RRP. And the /gcg/s choice is based off board interest, nothing more.
Explanation is in the sticky. Which I now realised isn't in the OP.
http://pastebin.com/GKpypK28
Hello
I have a w5000
>>54595664
WELCUM
>>54595664
Hello friend
>>54595470
There is going to be quite some difference. I'd still suggest 1070 since the 1080 seems to be the next nvidia memecard.
>>54595660
>>54595716
Thanks friends. I'm leaning to the 1070, just because I usually don't do AAA titles, but didn't know if it was a stupid investment that's going to be obsolete in a year or two.
>>54595644
Which is hilarous considering it supports 8k@60hz
its like saying a car 'supports' 200mph but only goes 100 because its underpowered as fuck
Guess we will be all waiting until 2018 for 'new' cards that arnt retreads
what is the best power per cash laptop GPU?
>>54595660
1070 is just going to be 980ti but worse famalam.
>>54595644
>>54595761
>if it doesn't do it at max settings, that performance literally does not exist
turn down the graphics settings you fucking faggots.
>>54595521
>But even an AMD fanboy couldn't pick the fury over a 980ti.
10 MINS
>>54595760
I'd probably suggest against the 1070 then. Its probably going to be a ripper of a card, but if you're not playing AAA's, then some budget/mainstream card will probably do you better.
Maybe wait and see what AMD offers for their cards. Polaris will allegedly be under $299 and perform as well as a 390 with less than half the power consumption.
To each their own though. I'll wait for Vega before I make my choice.
>>54595765
No-one knows, cause gayman laptops a meme. If I had to guess, I'd probably say it would be either the 970M or 980M.
>not a 3D designer
>buys a GPU instead of just using iGPU/APU
only children play games
you just waste your time and money
inb4
>is on 4chan
>talks about wasting time
I'm getting paid for this since I'm lurking in job
>>54595800
>This fucking chart.
I'm an AMD fuckboy, and it embarrasses me whenever someone posts this. Please stop.
>>54595819
I shouldn't say AAA is out of the question. I'd like to try a few out on the horizon, but they just aren't my bread and butter. I most enjoy wargames and the occasional Company of Heroes / Men at War / Squad / ARMA so there is a need for a GPU, and I'm making a new tower from scratch, so I wanted everything to be as "future proof" as possible for the next say 4-5 years. It seems that in any case the 1080 is indeed beyond my scope.
>>54595835
Even the Nvidia paid videocards site has it over the 980ti
5 MINS
>>54595847
1070 it is then.
>>54595861
>AMD graphs
>Then synthetic benchmarks.
Please stop. It's a good card, but no way in hell I'd buy a Fury X over a 980Ti today.
>>54595867
5 minutes for what?!
was browsing around and found an interesting recent amd hire
![Tim and Eric Awesome Show, Great Job! - S1E08 - Anniversary.avi_snapshot_07.27_[2015.10.31_23.50.36].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/mWR4Vk4.jpg "Tim and Eric Awesome Show, Great Job! - S1E08 - Anniversary.avi snapshot 07.27 [2015.10.31 23.50.36]")
Could someone suggest a non-meme GPU that would pair with my 4570, ensuring that neither are a bottleneck?
Like to replace my GTS250 at some point...
ITS OVER AMD IS FINISHED
Do you really need 8x AA on 4k?
1 MIN
>>54595896
>1.6ghz on stock clock
>1.8ghz overclock
I would like to see how well it fair against an overclocked 980ti since what Nvidia did is essentially pushing the clock on the higher side of the spectrum to widen the gap.
>>54595896
DELETE THIS RIGHT NOW
>>54595896
Newer Card is better.... Please fuck of back to >/v/
>>54595832
Yup, it is waste of time and money, but you can't always be doing something productive.
Gaming is just way to spend your downtime, when you are exhausted and you want to lull.
>>54595800
>4k gaming
>relevant
Pick one and only one.
>>54595896
Tested on AOS, but when you check the AOS Leader board site the GTX1080 is not listed.
http://www.ashesofthesingularity.com/metaverse#/ladders/benchmark/overall/Crazy_4k?viewType=myself
>>54595249
>overclock3D
Stop posting this shill site
Nvidia didn't even send them a 1080 to review.
>>54595896
Bretty gud performance for $699 card.
>>54595896
But muh async
>>54596008
source?
NVIDIA IS FINISHED!
>>54596056
Can you see a review on there or a video from them on youtube? If they had one fro review the review would be posted now.
Ayy.
AMD is done for good!
>>54595896
This is the only good benchmark yet
>>54596093
I can believe this!
>>54596133
>Delusional Nvidicuck denying all benchmarks that show the 1080 for the shit card it is
Typical
When does the 1070 come out again and what's the anticipated price point at time of sale?
>>54596056
no one is allowed to release preformance spec's untill the 1080 is realeased for sale. Why do you think their is no real benchmarks yet. People would be canceling their pre orders. I wish you guys would learn basic marketing.
Look at this video starting for the 3:00 minute mark.
https://twit.tv/shows/this-week-in-computer-hardware/episodes/363
>>54596161
>all benchmarks that show the 1080 for the shit
Can you show me these benchmarks?
>>54596093
sause?
>>54596161
I said that was the only good benchmark
Meaning that the rest are shit
Jesus christ
>>54595955
Reviews are out.
Seems like a normal progression from one generation to the next. Nvidia lied again.
>>54596181
>no one is allowed to release preformance spec's untill the 1080 is realeased for sale
Have you not seen the reviews for the 1080 on every single tech website right now?
>>54596181
>no one is allowed
https://www.overclockers.ru/lab/76273/obzor-i-testirovanie-videokarty-nvidia-geforce-gtx-1080.html
Here is some Ruskie website for u with tests and shit
https://youtu.be/Vm6kiLG1dTw im not a nvidia card owner but how much increase do 980tis get in performance from 1200 to 1550mhz? I had hoped the 1080 would get more performance from stock clock to 2100mhz+
>>54596225
1.6ghz (excluding boost) to 2.1 isn't really that much of a leap.
Guys the videos are up... Pauls, awesomesauce, gamers nexus + more
>>54596283
Where have you been? This happened 30 mins ago.
>hotter than Fury/Nano/FuryX
>Founder edition cooler is good guys
>its worth they extra money guys
>>54596301
Nobody has been talking about it here... I've already watched 3 videos.
>>54596273
about 8% performance boost, overclocking is useless on this card.
>>54596221
>>54596209
Point proven, enjoy your click bait.
>>54596344
>Point proven
What point are you trying to prove?
Review NDA was up 40mins ago, all tech sites across the web have videos and reviews up.
>>54596309
only complete nvidiot fanboys will buy these
hopefully the 1050 60 and 70 are good
It's fucking over. Nvidia won. AMDpoors are utterly blown the fuck out. The 1080 is 20% better than a 980 ti and AMD can't even compete. Fucking laughable.
so, what do you guys think?
Is it worth it or is 980Ti still card to get?
>>54596404
>maxwell with a higher clock
this is so revolutionary. still no hw async though.
https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/nvidia-geforce-gtx-1080-review,1.html
>AMPajeets BTFO
Lel. Seeing what a big disappointment the 1080 turned out to be, the new Polaris cards might actually manage to match the 1070 in performance as long as AMD really did improve their architecture as much as they've been bosting, even if the Polaris chip is smaller.
>>54596433
Lol and overclocking virtually does not give a performance boost on these cards
>>54596445
Yea, no.
m-muh faster than SLI 980s...
>>54595422
Polaris is going to be the budget crown bruh, Nvidia is only focusing on high end this round
>>54596460
>Seeing what a big disappointment the 1080 turned out to be
Do you really think so? I'm an AMDpoor but I was actually surprised at some of the gaming results, like especially the AotS results on Tom's shillware.
https://youtu.be/MzpQuGIDvwQ
Pascal is literally a stopgap, why do Nvidia fanboys love being jewed so much?
>>54596462
>mfw it gets gimped for the 1080ti and 1180
>700usd+
Holy shit is the 1080ti and titan going to be over 1000usd? This is fucking insane
Will an Archon or Tesseract be enough for 970 and above?
I need a budget case right now and I'm not feeling like buying another when the new cards get released and the prices adjusted (then I willl decide which one to pick)
>>54596514
The result is good, but it is within expectation.
People have been saying that it have worse clock per clock performance compared to 980ti and it actually turned out to be true
>AMD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lTGk0R12gs
>Nvidia 1080 destroying Fury X on DX12 Tomb raider and Hitman
AMDFAG BTFO
https://youtu.be/2-61Zn4Sb8Q?t=8m17s
>>54596487
It did a lot better that I thought it would in games.
VEGA WILL BEAT IT
>VEGA WILL BEAT IT
VEGA WILL BEAT IT
>VEGA WILL BEAT IT
VEGA WILL BEAT IT
>VEGA WILL BEAT IT
VEGA WILL BEAT IT
>VEGA WILL BEAT IT
VEGA WILL BEAT IT
>VEGA WILL BEAT IT
VEGA WILL BEAT IT
>VEGA WILL BEAT IT
>>54596639
>new card beating old card
GTX 1080 confirmed for not worth it.
Current status: /wait/ing for Vega
>>54595249
>Performance crown:
>Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 [pending]
>/GCG/'s Choice:
>Nvidia GeForce GTX 1070 [pending peer review]
why?
t. newfag
>>54597228
based on 970 price/performance and projecting it on the 1000 generation.
>>54596700
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRdxUFDoQe0
>1080 benches
All I see is wait for Vega and 1080Ti. It still couldn't do 60fps across the board, and judging by how it performs, the 1070 is less amazing than it was lead to be. I'm in the lookout for a 1440p monitor with *sync and am heavily considering Vega with a freesync monitor. If anything, it feels underwhelming after all the hype it build up several days ago. It might just be a rehashed Maxwell, that would be hilarious.
>>54597263
alright thanks
>tfw still running a 760
thinking of getting a 1070/1080 though
>>54597275
It is a rehashed and overclocked Maxwell, they just shrunk the die.
>>54597275
It is a refreshed maxwell, it's performance increase was almost 1-1 with the % increase in density from switching to 16nm from 28nm, and yeah it really is a waste if it still can't do 4k 60fps
>>54597275
1080ti will not come out until mid 2017 and Vega 10 will not be a 1080ti competitor.
Vega 10 probably be in the same market segment as the 290x, which was faster than the 680/770 but slower than the 780ti
>>54597395
>Vega 10 will not be a 1080ti competitor.
Let's not get too hasty out there nigga. Pascal underperformed, simple as that. They can cram in more cores and make a huge housefire, but I doubt it will be a crushing defeat to Vega.
All I ask for is a 1440p/4k benchmark that doesn't also use redundant and intensive shit like MSAA.
>>54597418
Vega 10 will not be a 600mm^2 chip. Based on the rumored specs it's closer to 400mm^2
600mm^2 chips (i.e. Titan, x80ti or Fury branded cards) will not be available to consumers before mid 2017. That's probably what Vega 11 will be.
>>54597509
I think you have them backwards. Polaris 10 is beefier than Polaris 11 for example.
Is it time to upgrade my 560ti?
A friend is selling me a GTX980 for $250, yay or nay?
Most intensive thing I'll run is Dark Souls 3 and Touhou, would it run them at 60fps on 1440p if I turn down the settings?
>>54597579
Do you play intensive, unoptimized, heavy on the tessellation 3.5-hour long AAA games?
If the answer is no to every descriptor, no, you don't need to upgrade for another 2 years.
>>54597598
yes
I hope Anandtech calls out on Nvidia's bullshit.
>>54597606
>Do you play intensive, unoptimized, heavy on the tessellation 3.5-hour long AAA games?
I play Dark Souls 3 and frames do drop in 3 areas with everything at minimum so I was thinking on getting the 1070 as it does seem it will last me another 5 years.
>>54597547
The numbers are meaningless. According to the chief engineer (that Indian guy) they just count upwards from 10.
>>54597639
>Anandtech
rifk
>>54597664
It's Dark Souls 3, yet another badly optimized game ported from consoles. You should expect frame drops.
>>54597275
You know, while disappointing, it absolutely demolishes its successor, the 980. Waiting for the bigger cards seems like the best choice to me.
>>54597434
Are there any that do this?
>>54597712
>successor,
Predecessor, I'm retarded.
Gtx 1080 furmark session. Fermi's back bitches
>>54597547
Vega 11 > Vega 10 > Polaris 10 > Polaris 11
I know
>>54597802
>>54597434
Anandtech and guru3d
Why are nvidia and all the reviewers ignoring the fact that the 980 Ti, a slightly better card than the Titan X, exists?
>>54597900
You mean to tell me Nvidia LIED AGAIN???
>>54597943
>all reviewers
Most of these benchmarks are accounting for the 980ti; what are you on about?
>>54596454
why? it's the exact opposite
>No longer need an oven for boiling water
>Can just run Furmark with a GTX 1080 instead
Top kek, Nvidia.
>>54597900
>>54598114
wait so does this mean they took the efficiency gains from the die shrink and just raised the clocks to make it faster than the old cards? Doesn't this eat up most of the overclocking headroom of the 1080?`
>Pascal is actually a housefire
Is it time to flip the memes again?
>>54598219
more like return them back to the beginning, when fermi was destroying entire neighborhoods
>>54598187
We'll find out if you can go way above factory overclock soon enough when little snot-nosed Timmy tries to OC his GPU.
>>54598260
could this potentially mean that polaris will be more overclockable since it's not just a die shrink like pascal
>>54598293
also could that mean that overclocking polaris would get you close to 1080 performance at the cost of temps?
>>54597900
d-don't worry aftermarket will fix it
>>54597900
Shit. nVijew is done.
IT HAD BEGUND, BROTHERS!!!!!!
[4K] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuViSYChy7Q
[1080p] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXhHivCLBwc
[1440p] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wf6lpFmCKGQ
[DX11 vs DX12] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqK4xGimR7A
[LinusMG] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-61Zn4Sb8Q
I will definitely buy the GTX 1070.
It will be the perfect card for 2K gaming at max settings.
And I don't even need to upgrade my efficient 350Watts PSU for it.
First come, first serves. AMD has nothing to counter both the GTX 1070 and the GTX 1080.
Polaris 10 will be for 1080p gaming.
>>54598444
Hello me, sans the 350w
>>54598410
>DX12 not only does nothing but performs worse not only for nvidia, but for AMD as well
>DF doesn't compare the 980 Ti, but Linus MG shows that it performs worse than the Titan X
Huh.
>>54598444
Polaris 10 ran Hitman on 1440p at 60 fps
>>54598444
>>54598480
Hol up, let me get on that 1070/1440p train.
Can't wait for the 1070 so I can buy a new monitor with it.
>AMD stock up 4.22%
>Nvidia stock up 0.07%
http://www.techpowerup.com/222537/nvidia-geforce-gtx-1070-specifications-revealed
>>54598551
TO THE MOON
>>54598480
>>54598549
Only downside is that Nvidia forces you to buy a G-Sync monitor which are atleast 100 bucks more expensive than Freesync ones.
But AMD has nothing to offer unfortunately until Vega.
>>54598617
aye. fucking nvidijews might've got me this time if they would've supported freesync.
fuck g-sync and it's price tag
>>54598617
I remember reading pascal had some new sync method that wasn't monitor dependent?
>>54598617
>Vega
Is Vega really coming this year? it's kinda weird seeing amd pulling things forward instead of back.
>>54598617
AMD has Polaris coming in less than a month. If you think that the biggest Polaris chip can't compete with the 1070 you're delusional.
>>54598650
gsync monitors have to pass stricter clock quality control and they don't shit themselves if framerate dips. Unfortunately they are still expensive, for now.
>>54598671
Vega 10 won't come out until 2017, but it will get paper launched to save face against the slaughter GP104 has brought.
And then Nvidia will shut AMD up for good with GP100 consumer chips...
>>54598671
The only limiting factor is HBM2 availability. Maybe that changed.
>>54598667
>>54598617
>Fast Sync is a latency-conscious alternative to traditional Vertical Sync (V-SYNC) that eliminates tearing, while allowing the GPU to render unrestrained by the refresh rate to reduce input latency.
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/nvidia_geforce_gtx_1080_review,4.html
>>54598721
>The experience that FAST SYNC delivers, depending on frame rate, is roughly equal to the clarity of V-SYNC ON combined with the low latency of V-SYNC OFF.
Sounds gucci to me
>>54598703
This is just rumors but GP100 maybe facing yield issues in addition to lack of hbm2 chips.
>>>>54595396
You're asking way too much. I bought a used sapphire 390 for 280. Even new the 390 can creep to that price when it's on sale with a Mir.
If you crabs list it for 290 it'll probably sit for awhile and loose even more value when the new cards come out and the 390/x drops in price. That's a $200 dollar card right now. Put it up for 220 so low ballers have something to play with.
>>54598551
+4,22% addition to worthless isn't much. don't get your hopes up.
>>54597900
As if anyone buys the reference versions. fury X is water cooled otherwise it would be past 100C easily.
Amdcucks clutching at straws as usual
Seen all the juicy reviews
Looks like 1080 is raping everything on base clock
Going to buy a superclocked version from other retailers for 599$ ~ 650$
Why is the referee card more expensive than the after market cards?
>>54598703
And then Amd will combat 1080ti with Navi, then Nvidia will compete with Volta...
It never ends. There is never a definitive winner. That's the beauty
>>54598845
Nvidia. The way it's meant to be sold.
>>54598845
reference is going to be the same price as the aftermarket cards
founders is just a fancy marketing scheme so people buy reference cards at a premium price because "it's officially by nvidia to its core"
>>54598761
>fury X is water cooled otherwise it would be past 100C easily.
Who the fuck is grasping straws again? You?
The mandatory watercooler on the FuryX is a clever ploy to trick retards into buying it. And apart from that, the AIO does a good job too.
As for your claims of 100 degrees. No FuryX card is air cooled. So you literally have 0 proof. Not to mention the Nano being a fucking full Fiji chip, and only needing one fan to cool it. Stop getting mad you green retard.
>>54598822
At 4k its not that far ahead of a fury x or 980ti all told - certainly within reach of an overclocked fury x or 980ti.
What is more concerning is (according to TPU) it doesn't always outperform a 295x2 which is shocking given 1) how fast the 1080 is and 2) how old the 295x2 is, dual gpu or no.
>>54598740
>yield issues
>2016
Literally not a thing anymore
>>54598878
fury X is very non impressive card.
1000 mhz effective clockspeed card doesn't heat up much boo-hoo!
go back to your wait shed. There is nothing to be mad about since nothing has changed past 5 years and even now in gpu market. Nvidia reigns supreme.
>>54598927
>listening to the salty-as-fuck SemiAccurate after he was banned from all Nvidia events from deliberate misinformation and defamation
He still mad
>>54598883
Are you retarded? GP100 is in extremely short supply. This year you can only buy it in Nvidia's own $129.000 servers and early next year it will be available to server OEMs for their own servers.
It will be the second half of 2017 before any GP100 chips make it to consumers.
>>54598761
Filtered
>>54598845
In order to not undercut/or compete with third-party vendors.
>>54598880
drivers aren't optimized and some games perform better on AMD apparently
dual GPU's is out of question for me
overall 1080 is solid for $ / performance and if you sit on a 980 ti - 30% increase aint that much for some
i'm sitting on a 660 for years now and going to upgrade my system entirely
>>54598944
No anon, any lithography process will have yield issues especially with GP100 having a huge ass die size per chip.
>>54598971
>GP100 is in extremely short supply
But that's not why it's priced so high, you AMDnigga. It's not even meant for consumer use because it's too powerful and specialized for compute-heavy tasks. The reason why they charge so much for the Tesla cards is because the enterprise world can stomach the large bill, so Nvidia is getting away with as much Jewing as they can pull before they have to start selling GP100 to consumers to shut out AMD from the market. AMD has NOTHING that can compete with the GP100 in the HPC market and Intel has their own $100k Knight's Landing.
>>54598880
>At 4k its not that far ahead of a fury x or 980ti
>20-30%
>gp 104 not even gp 102
>not far ahead
I was planing to get a r9 380(380x if I can find a good deal), should I wait though?
What budget cards am I looking at for this next gen? I plan to switch cards in 1 month or so, but from my understanding, Nvidia budget range won't be out by then.
So, I'm looking at AMD 200 dollaritos price range, which one will that be and when can we expect a release date?
>>54599054
R9 480, I guess. It should be out by then. AMD are said to reveal their new lineup of Polaris cards on June 1st at Computex.
>>54599054
don't bother waiting, just get what you need now and wait for HBM2 to become standard
r9 380x from sapphire, the r9 380 should be under $200
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZrGImpdxy0
21 games tested 4k, 1440p, 1080p
>>54597901
who the fuck came up with this naming scheme?
its worse than the nvidia or amd memenames combined
>>54599048
Stop talking out of your ass.
GP100 is at 610 mm2 per die size which is larger than even Maxwell. Yields are bound to be low due to less chips being able to fit on the silicon. Hence the lower yields and higher pricing.
GP100 being limited in supply is not impossible.
>>54599054
if you wait a month you might get a good deal on a used card.
I'll probably upgrade from 380x to 1080 and sell my card dirt cheap
Real talk guys, I wanna upgrade my graphics card. I am still running a 560ti and witcher 3 is a slide show. I am digging either the 1080 or 1070, depending on how much OT I can get. Should I just pull my old card and slot in the new one, format and start win 7 from scratch, or build a whole new rig around this card.
I have an i5-2500k, 8 gigs ram, SSD, ASUS mobo (forget the designation). .
>>54599187
Just get a new gpu from whichever brand you can afford the best one. CPU and rest is fine.
>>54599162
If you consider the supposed specs of the 1070 yields msut be pretty bad for the 1070 to be such a huge step down from the 1080 in raw hardware.
>>54599187
>win 7
Upgrade to Windows 10. It's better and faster in every aspect.
>i5-2500k, 8 gigs ram, SSD, ASUS mobo
That should be fine.
If you play at 1080p get the 1070 or the 490X once it's out and if it isn't shit; for higher resolutions get the 1080.
>>54598410
>still only gets 20-30fps in 4k
How the fuck?
We're still stick at this shit since 2013 what the fuck is going on?
unless we can fucking summon 2x the performance out of these newer cards with DX12 and Vulkan there really is no hope.
>>54599187
Wait for AMD's release. One of two things will happen.
AMD releases something that's competitive.
Nvidia dropping their prices to compete with AMD newly released card.
Be a smart goyim consumer, don't buy into the hype.
>>54599221
>120 Microsoft points have been credited to your account
>>54599239
8xmsaa at 4k because "hurr durr max settings reviews are only what matters".
>>54599187
I'm at the same annoying spot as you are and also can't decide.
feels shitty to buy a new cpu, mobo and ram to get 20% more performance.
>>54599221
>muh win 10 is fastah an bettah
I don't even care anymore, so glad i got a chance to test before buying a key.
>>54599239
>20% from 2x theoretical
Suicide watch
>>54599213
No, the reason why the 1070 has such different specs this time around is to prevent OC'd 1070s from cannibalizing the 1080's market share. That's also why they gave the 1080 GDDR5X memory rather than GDDR5.
The 970 OC'd was too close for comfort to the 980, which stole sales from the more powerful card as a result. Nvidia does not want a repeat of that.
>>54599239
>>54599263
aye they crank up every setting no matter if it does anything. I'm sure if you optimize a little you can get 60 fps at 4k with a lot of games.
it is also the best way to make older games look a LOT better and here you won't have any problems with the fps. good luck with shitty scaling though.
>>54595249
> be me
> have GTX 670 (Kepler)
> have performance compared to AMD GCN cards fall to shit post-Maxwell
> plan: get <$300 480X/490X/whatever Polaris 10 card now, upgrade to Vega if it's a big enough leap, otherwise wait for Navi or whatever
Jen-Hsun Huang can lick my salty caucasian nutsack this cycle, no matter how 1080/1070 end up doing.
I know Pascal will turn to shit as soon as Volta comes out anyway, and I prefer a 3+ year upgrade cycle instead of the 2 year one Nvidia tries to push.
>>54599221
Windows 10 been a nightmare for me, ranging from random application not working at all to the search bar freezing for no apparent reason. I'm actually buying a second hard disk for installing windows 10 into a separate boot just for gaymen.
>>54599295
What do Nvidia care? The sheer number of 970's sold vastly offset the higher margins of the 980. Either way if someone bought a 970 or a 980 it means they aren't buying AMD which is what Nvidia really wants.
>>54599332
>The sheer number of 970's sold vastly offset the higher margins of the 980
The problem is that later in the product's life cycle when yields mature, they had a glut of full GM204 chips that were in oversupply. Unsold GPUs means no revenue, so they probably had to turn a lot of those into 970-ready GPUs in order to reduce loses. It's better if the 1080 is significantly faster than the 1070 so that this supply problem doesn't hinder sales later in the life cycle. Even if the 1080 Ti launches, there will still be a demand for 1080s over the 1070s, just at a slightly lower price point.
>>54599295
>>54599392
does anybody even really know what the availability of 1080 will be short-term?
GDDR5X barely exists at present, and it just feels like Nvidia is just floating out a paper launch to make the 1070 look better than it deserves by association.
>>54595249
so, the best options for your resolution are these:
1080p = GTX 1070
1440p - GTX 1080
4K = wait for 1080Ti
we can all agree on this, right?
>>54599460
More like
1080p = Polaris 10
1440p = Vega 10
4K = wait for Vega 11
>>54599392
A sound theory but still consider for the last few generations there hasn't been much of a hardware difference (give or take clockspeed) between the x80 and x70 models. The enormous gap for pascal might have more going on than mere worrying about oversupply.
Even more so when you consider that the 1080ti (should it exist) is likely to use GDDR5X and thus could be cut down to make a 1080 should the need arise. While this is all pure theory it is still something to consider.
>When Vega is released here it will be named to Balrog
>>54599312
Nvidia does not update drivers on much older cards like yours as much as AMD does admittedly.
So if you plan on running older generations cards you are probably better off with AMD cards, on newer generations you are clearly better off with Nvidia.
>>54599460
More like
1070=1440/60
1080=1440/120
>>54599541
Typically people don't upgrade every 18 or 24 months. The whole marketing push behind maxwell was to force 6xx owners to upgrade - cards that were 3 years (or more) old at the time.
>wait another 2 years after you waited for 3 years straight
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdKI1wj-JpI
>>54599570
Nobody forces you to upgrade, I ran a 670 until about half a year ago and it served me really well for such an old card.
It makes sense that they stop optimizing for older cards at some point. They do the same with smartphones and OS's
>GTX970's still cost more than the RRP of the 1070 in the UK
Reee etc
I'm guessing the 1070 wont actually be around the £270rrp will it? I'm guessing it's going to end up being £350+
>>54599604
You can pick up used ones for literally 200 bucks
>inb4 don't want to use, used cards
Well then pay alot more for an older generation card
some guy at my nearest microcenter told me that i can keep my 970 as texture cache (really didnt understand what he told me) while still being able to use a 1080 at the same time, is this actually possible? i thought you needed the exact same nvidia card for sli. can someone tell me where cam i research more on this? thanks in advance.
pic semirelated
>>54599628
I'd rather spend the extra £50-70 to get it new for warranty reasons
Last time I bought a used GPU it died a month later and there was fuck all I could do about it
>>54599633
he's lying
>>54599662
That's a hefty premium to pay over used cards that often still have about a years warranty left.
But I understand your choice if you had bad experiences with it in the past
>>54599633
u're better call the geeksquad to you're house're
>>54599513
>1080ti (should it exist) is likely to use GDDR5X and thus could be cut down to make a 1080 should the need arise
But that's fucking wrong. The 1080 Ti will be a GP100 GPU, which will only use HBM2 due to its memory controller which is different from GP104. It will have to use HBM2 without going through some costly redesign.
And I doubt Nvidia will sell the GP100 for less than $650.
Waiting for vega and a. 144hz ultrawide freesync monitor
Why do people get so worked up over GPUs? Brand loyalty is stupid. Reminds me of elementary school when we argued about SNES vs Genesis at the lunch table.
>>54599813
They are big purchases, especially the higher end ones and people have a big incentive to justify these big purchases.
It's pretty normal
>>54599681
well he told me it wasnt SLI as the 2 card wouldnt be used at the same time, he just told me about something about textures, he made it sound like really complicated. He said that the 1080 would be the main card, and the hardware on the 970 would be used for the textures or something along those lines. he was trying to fuck around with me?
>>54599840
You're right but for me the most important thing is what's the best value
Sadly it always ends up being nVidia as games always have AMD problems. I really don't like buying nVidia stuff due to shit like when The Witcher 3 came out their game ready drivers made performance worse for people with the previous generation of cards
>>54599860
Maybe he got really fucking confused over how DX12 can use different GPU's together
>>54599460
Yeah
Add
>fury for 1080p
>Vega for 1440p
And future 2018 bullshit for 4k
>>54599570
>>54599600
A 670, which cost $400 at launch, is in nearly every metric stronger on paper than a 960.
Unfortunately, Nvidia saw fit to just pump up the tessellation stats in Maxwell then encourage game devs to flood every scene with innumerable ridiculously tiny triangles, completely fucking anyone with not just AMD hardware but also Kepler.
Nvidia's generations aren't as big sequential improvements as they claim. They just have enough industry clout to move software bottlenecks to whatever flavor of the month special acceleration unit they decide to add.
>>54599860
Pham, you just got played like a little boy in a lonely MILF's sex dungeon.
Pic related, that's you in the boobs
>>54599809
>144hz ultrawide freesync monitor
nigger, the entire point of the new DP 1.3/1.4 is not needing ghetto cropped monitors to get 120+Hz refresh.
UHD@120Hz is coming this winter, and you can just run letterboxed resolutions if your GPU is too gimpy to deal.
>>54599633
You can use an extra Nvidia card as a standalone physx processor; not sure if it works for other goyworks shit
>>54599940
Yeah, waiting for uhd 120hz too
Hopefully they drop to the $500 range in short order
>>54599944
where can i research more on this? he actually said physx but i didnt understand. is it worth it?
>>54599970
No.
Physx is barely used and of the games that do use it only a few really make good use of physx (even then you can run physx off your cpu but its not without a performance hit because Nvidia can't code for shit).
Fun fact: people used to enable hybrid physx (i.e an Nvidia card dedicated for the job) via driver fuckery when AMD cards were in the system but Nvidia actively disabled this.
>>54599970
Nigga, you got played like a little boy's prostate at the hands of a sexually-experienced older woman
No developer in their right mind would waste their time optimizing dissimilar-GPU set-ups that aren't iGPU+dGPU
>>54599940
120hz 1440p IPS monitors that don't run for a grand or more is my hope
>>54600018
>>54600011
thanks senpai, next time I see that fuckr i will throw shit at him.
>>54599541
lol, did you know the 5xxx series doesnt even support 4k? nvidia cards from that time do.
>>54600060
Don't do that, man. He probably just was misinformed. It's not like those guys make comission and I don't believe MC is as insane as gamestop is about pushing sales
>>54600115
maybe, I will talk with him about it and maybe both of us can learn from it
>>54599911
>A 670, which cost $400 at launch, is in nearly every metric stronger on paper than a 960.
Yeah, if you completely ignore differences in architecture and other technological improvements made to the cards over several generations.
>it's actually just overclocked Maxwell at 16nm
That's pretty disappointing desu
>>54600302
I don't understand this line of thinking. Why are we comparing a stock clock to an OCd card when the former can also be OCd?
Is any benchmark out yet? Does the GTX 1070 beat a Fury X?
The real question is if it will take a 6-pin to 8-pin PCI-e extension because I sure not getting another PSU.
>>54597639
oh you innocent soul
What happened to the 1080 being faster than two 980Ti in SLI?
>>54598549
>>54598444
i fear the 1070 won't comfortably run 1440p at max settings though
Should I try selling my 970, 750 Ti, and Radeon 6670 for a 1070?
>>54600501
This happened, even when we aren't talking about VR it's pretty close to an sli setup of its predecessor, that's pretty impressive
>>54600566
Your best bet is to compare it to a 980ti, which is a fantastic card for 1440p unless you need at least 100+ fps in every game on max settings
>>54600566
Keep in mind that at 1440p native, most forms of intensive AA become redundant and can be disabled, providing a performance boost. I think it'll safely run older, well optimized titles like Alien Isolation and Mad Max for example at full Ultra 1440/120fps, while hitting 60 fps for future titles at similar settings. We'll have to wait for benchmarks though
>>54600598
>compare it to a 980ti
That is optimistic. It will perform marginally better than a 980.
If Pascal is just a die shrink of Maxwell why would its clock for clock performence go down?
>>54600631
>That is optimistic. It will perform marginally better than a 980.
No it isn't, it's actualy conservative, the 970 performed on par with a 780ti and that card didn't even have a die shrink between generations
>>54599569
1080 won't do 1440 on solid 120
>>54600626
hmm, when I run GTA 5 on my 25" 1440p I still find the aliasing very noticeable
>>54600660
>oh no it's only 100fps
>oh no I don't have every setting at max to get 120fps
Is this what 1080p actually tell themselves to justify the fact they can't afford a QHD or 4k monitor?
>>54599460
All of them will comfortably do QHD. 4k on at least high settings.
If you buy a $500 GPU for anything other than 4k you are completely retarded.
I play at 1400p and I have a 980 (reference card, it can only OC about 150MHz core and ~300 memory). On modern games it's pretty shit, I have to turn plenty of settings down to achieve a stable 60 fps. Hell, even the Wolfenstein games from a few years ago have me turning down the settings a lot, but they could just be poorly optimized.
What should be my next upgrade? 120Hz 1440p monitor with gsync + a 1080 with non-reference cooling? Or a 4k gsync monitor with the same gpu?
>>54600716
uh, I have a 1080p at 120 and QHD at 60. though I admit 90 fps on a 120hz monitor is much less of a problem than 45 on a 60hz
In less than 2 weeks Nvidia will be on suicide watch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvAW5UaRG_4
>>54600238
Maxwell is literally just Kepler with FP64 and any remaining semblance of dynamic scheduling control stripped out, plus a little more color compression and a lot of tessellation capacity.
There is no and pretty much never has been any magic Nvidia secret sauce in their hardware.
It's just stagecraft maintained by PR and a large and capable software team.
>>54595249
When is the best time to buy previous gen cards? Is buying used recommended?
>>54600632
>If Pascal is just a die shrink of Maxwell why would its clock for clock performence go down?
being bottlenecked horribly by memory.
> 1080 = 50% more compute, 5% less bandwidth than 980 Ti, or maybe 15% more effective bandwidth if you believe improved compression numbers.
>>54600777
Delta compompression (which is how they claim effective bandwidth) doesn't work for all software. Some things - even within vidya - simply can't be compressed like that thus raw bandwidth (i.e bus width x speed) is an important factor.
This is a factor into why hawaii remains so strong as resolution increases - it has staggering amounts of bandwidth done the old fashioned way (to wit a 390x has nearly 400gb/s of bandwidth).
>>54600734
I might actually be better off getting a second 980, then selling both and getting a 1080ti when that releases.
>>54598921
>tripfag
>nvidicucks
top kek, kys already
>>54599813
Let me tell you something kiddo.
My grandfather was a pearl harbor survivor, and patrol bomber in WW2, and he choose NVIDIA for his graphucs needs!
My father, who let me and my mom to marry someone else and raise her kids, choose NVIDIA for his graphucs, and he was an executive at TMobile for a while!
My stepfather, who only used the belt on me when I honestly deserved it, choose NVIDIA, and he banged my mom loud enough to piss off the neighbors.
So stop being such a smuck!
>>54597395
290x is faster than 780 ti
>>54601155
No it isn't
>inb4 cherrypicked benchmarks
Definitely looking to do a new system build this year so at least one of these new cards better be good
>>54601452
I'd like to see benchmarks from 2015 and 2016 where the 780ti beats the 290x by 5 frames or more at any resolution
Benchmarks where amd has since fixed it, like Doom, don't count
>>54601513
What
You don't need a new build, you need a new gpu
and maybe RAM that isn't 1333Mhz but the highest DDR3 for that board
>>54601539
>Doom, don't count
AMD's latest driver fixes doom. Digital foundry tested a 970 vs 390 with it and performance is pretty much where it should be - neck and neck.
>>54601452
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_1080/26.html
The 290x is faster at every tested resolution.
>>54601570
Nah, I don't like my case either and I plan on giving this to my gf anyway. Probably gonna do an X99 build if broadwell-e isn't complete shit
>>54599756
If a 294mm2 die costs consumers $600 now, an at-the-limit 610mm2 die would cost much, much more thaan $650 later. Probably above $1000
It took nearly 4 years for 600mm2 dies to be relatively affordable on 28nm
>>54597900
I knew it,die shrinks don't mean shit if you need BIG performance,bet you the 1080 ti or next titan is going to becooled by water or liquid nitrogen.
>>54601907
>bet you the 1080 ti or next titan is going to becooled by water
To a certain extent watercooling at reference is a good thing for powerful gpus as - like fury x and particularly the pro duo - show you can massively curb rampant power draw by keeping those vrms cool. Equally its why hybrid cooling is a meme - sure the core is nice and cool but that doesn't mean shit if the vrms are roasting as you are slamming more and more volts through the card leading to absurd leakage.
The pro duo in particular is worth looking at to see where things are going to head - that is essentially two full cover clocks in a very small package and the results speak for themselves.
So hold up, lemme make sure I got this right. Founders Edition is the new name for Reference Cooler? That's kinda dumb.
Also, will the manufacturers' cooler 1080s be on sale on the 27th, or is it just the reference being released that day?
I'd rather get an ACX cooled one.
>>54598410
>three ten minute videos just to convey the information that could've been put into three bar graphs
>>54602124
No founders means you're getting a top-binned chip and some cosmetic shit. 100 dollars less nets you the regular reference card
>>54602124
>So hold up, lemme make sure I got this right. Founders Edition is the new name for Reference Cooler? That's kinda dumb.
Its a marketing ploy to jack the price up by 100 burgers without fools noticing because Nvidia explicitly set msrp lower than the founder's edition and never once used the word reference.
>>54599151
Because they came out in numerical order
>make a mainstream GPU, call it Polaris 10
>need some low tier and mobile GPUs, base it on Polaris 10 and call it Polaris 11
>making flagship GPU, call it Vega 10
>need an enthusiast card, call it Vega 11
>>54598219
AMD actually makes good drivers these days
>>54598444
Polaris 10 is getting announced before the 1070 reference card releases but you'll buy the 1070 reference card for $450 anyway? Are you retarded?
>>54602453
>Are you retarded?
>buying Nvidia
I like to think your question was rhetorical.
>>54602159
>top binned
Not true, there is no regular reference. A third party might slap on a shit cooler for $599 but the default Nvidia cooler is the founders. It's a premium reference, with no lesser reference option available
This myth was busted a week ago
>>54600331
Because it can't, at least not the Founders Edition. It gets 83C at 1.8GHz, which is even below the stock clock.
Honest question here
They spend millions on R&D, why the fuck can't they come up with a proper cooler?
>>54604304
All the Xx420noscopexX faggots only care about how it looks
Just got off a 14 hour flight. Where are we at with the 1080?
>89 degrees
WAAAAHH
>>54599809
So many bad choices
Not that impressed. Unless the board partners allow for crazy overclocking I'm a #waitmissile
>>54595415
Prospective buyer looking forward to cool n quiet, 380x performance
If I get a gtx1080 will my 970 be good for anything? can I use it for physx or whatever?
>>54605581
it will be a good tool if you are planning an arson
>>54605581
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmin5WkOuPw
>>54605618
that would require a housefire burning certified driver from nvidia, the same driver that set fermis on fire
>>54605581
You can use the 970 as a texture cache.
Hi, just started planning out to build a system. How is this gpu http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125792
It's within my budget and recommended by some guides but the brand makes me wary and I'm not sure how much that matters in performance. I'm not looking to build an absolute monster but a good starting point since I'm basically brand new to all this and you all seem to know your stuff.
>>54605842
Bad. Just get a used 980 Ti for like $400. You won't get deals like this until the next time Nvidia cucks their customers (probably with the 1080 Ti).
I have 9800 GT should I wait for 1060 so I can play witcher 3 ,ds3 on 1080p on ultra?
Is it a good idea??
https://youtu.be/TQYsl360v1A
https://youtu.be/TQYsl360v1A
https://youtu.be/TQYsl360v1A
This is so embarrassing
>>54605925
Polaris, 390/970, or 1070.
>>54605925
What year is this.
>>54605925
>9800 GT
How poor are you exactly?
>>54605964
Can you sum it up? This trend of 10 minute videos replacing a benchmark graph is getting annoying.
>>54605978
I just want to play 1080p 60Hz, how long will this last? I bought 9800 GT when it launched, but today it is obsolute, can I use it somehow?
>>54606025
>>54606008
>>54606043
Texture cache.
>>54605964
>tek syndicate
Now why would anyone watch any of their videos?
>>54605905
Thank you for the suggestion but a bit beyond my price point. I don't plan gaming in 4k or VR anytime soon just entry-level shit so I was curious about things more comparable in price+performance or if the card I'm looking has any serious issues I don't know of
>>54606099
I only watch Wendell.
>>54606105
Well for one its a bad driver voltage locked cuck card for Berniebros and the other for $110 more the 980 ti is fucking boss.
>>54606283
>cuck card for bernie bros
>fucking boss XD
It's time to stop posting
>>54605718
>use the 970 as a texture cache
how on earth could a secondary GPU be a better texture cache store than main memory?
is this a thing for 4GB/8GB poorfags?
How capable is 4k at high settings at 60fps from a single card yet?
I have a 780Ti classified paired with a single monitor, and I like to play games at max settings on 1080p at >60fps (I have a 144hz monitor) but it's starting to fall behind, especially in terms of VRAM. When is the best time to upgrade, especially with the possibility of 4K - 1100 series or 1200 series? Or now?
>>54606367
Not capable.
Which GTX 960 should I buy?
>>54606464
might as well cop a used 770
used gainward 960 for 140 euromoneys from some good goy that wants to jump on 1080 train
yay or nay?
So my friend wants to play rust but has a GT705 or some shit and it lags like crazy, even at potato.
His friend told him to get this (aint got much money): http://www.amazon.com/Gigabyte-GDDR3-2GB-Graphics-GV-R724OC-2GI-REV2-0/dp/B00JRSPXMQ/
Will it make an actual difference?
What cable do I need to buy to add another sati hard drive to my desktop? I have plenty of power cables.
>>54606867
*SATA you nerd and you'll be needing a SATA cable
>>54606761
so you want to make him replace something that gets spanked by integrated graphics for something that is slighly better than integrated graphics
750ti is the lowest acceptable card for me
>>54606888
oh right, that's aliens.
is there a difference between a sata, and a sata III cable?
>>54606367
Vega or 1080ti hopefully. I would jump on the UHD bandwagon later though, it looks super nice, but I like having more frames and actually emulating on my main monitor.
>>54606888
They don't come with the new HDD? You have to buy them separate?
>>54606761
literally get a job and work it for maybe one fucking week
>>54606976
Usually. Most bare drives are the drive and nothing else, unless it's a kit or something.
>>54606984
A) not me buying it
B) he doesn't really play much stuff, and doesn't really want to spend much at all.
>>54606761
>740
Jesus christ, video very much related
>>54607008
>>54606761
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iesLNx0b4L8
>>54606996
well that sucks fucking cock
![perfrel_3840_2160[2].png](https://i.imgur.com/oyoTPA3.png "perfrel 3840 2160[2]")
![3063659-image+(7)[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/8vTTJ2B.png "3063659-image+(7)[1]")
![3063667-image+(13)[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/DBy5sOV.png "3063667-image+(13)[1]")
