Opus
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who /opus/ here? I just converted my whole library to vbr 96kbps Opus, it saves so much space with no quality loss.
Did you convert from flac?
>>51927896
yes mostly flac
I'll stick with qaac q127
I've only just heard I've only just heard it's 2015. Time to upgrade my 10GB IDE
>>51928018
>my Dell came with 1TB and that's like 950GB more than I'll ever use!
I use AAC because it's not that much worse while still being widely supported.
>>51928361
>using a closed standard over an open one like opus/vorbis
>>51928491
>free standards over practicality
Keep living the dream.
>>51927867
>no quality loss.
It's a lossy audio codec, dumb frog poster.
>>51928870
It's not losing quality just inaudible bloat that FLAC loves to keep.
I use it for anything new, especially voice recordings.
128 vbr Opus here. You went too low senpai.
>>51928894
It's removing human inaudible frequencies. That *is* losing quality.
>>51928950
Fucking retard
>>51928960
Not a valid argument. You're discussing an entirely different topic, hoping to provoke silly audiophiles.
>>51928937
>96 kbps stereo 20 kHz CELT Full bandwidth stereo music, good quality approaching transparency Music storage & high quality streaming. Beat LC-AAC, Vorbis, MP3 in listening test
good enough for my non audiophile ears senpai
>placebo
>>51927867
I just switched to VLC on my phone so I could see the tags on Opus files. No problems so far. They work on other apps if you change the extension to .ogg, but the Android media scanner can't read the tags.
>>51929050
>
it's true. try it, the quality of the compressed audio is much better than mp3 at the same rates
>>51929050
If you can't hear the difference between 96kb/s Opus and 96kb/s MP3, you're probably deaf senpai.
>>51929028
Hmm okay. I'd advise you to do some ABX tests to confirm. I was able to beat multiple ones comparing 96 vbr Opus to FLAC. I failed every single one comparing 128 vbr Opus to FLAC which is why all of my music on my phone is 128 vbr Opus.
>>51929192
I'll take your word for it senpai and do my future encodes at 128
>>51927867
192k master race
just like 320k mp3
>>51929231
Did you do ABX tests?
>>51928491
Why should I care?
How do you batch convert to Opus?
>>51929772
I use LameXP
>>51929772
I use foobar
>>51929783
this
>>51927867
I used 512k opus on my sansa clip+, did I do good, anons?
bump
Someone please explain the differences, why we shoukd switch to opus, best ffmpeg settings to convert.
Infographic when?
>>51931759
Opus has an overall better sound accuracy to file size ratio than every other format in existence. Converting lossless to OPUS is better than converting lossless to something like MP3. Converting a lossy format like MP3 to opus is just retarded. Hope this helps.
>>51927867
I store everything in FLAC and have a FUSE filesystem which converts to Opus, and organizes things.
>>51931633
I actually keep 512 vbr Opus rips from CDs on my laptop. It's good since they take 50% the space of a fat FLAC and you can encode to another format in the future once with very little generational loss. Though I also keep 128 vbr rips from CDs but they are kept on my phone because I want to leave more room for video on my mSD chip on my phone.
512k Opus is a placebo but if you intend to encode to another format in the future once then it's fine. Otherwise encode to ~128 vbr Opus and do ABX test to confirm audible transparency.
>>51932218
Confused retard here:
What bitrate would be the sanest to convert to?
I usually convert to 192k VBR mp3, but as fas as I read 192k on mp3 is not 192k on opus.
>>51932841
Opus requires about half the bitrate of MP3 to sound just as good. So 96 vbr Opus sounds about as good as 192k mp3 and 128 vbr sounds about as good as 256k mp3.
You can see this efficiency more easily at lower bitrates. 16 vbr Opus sounds insanely good (for voice) compared to 32k mp3.
Try it out for yourself to confirm.
>>51929192
It differs person to person, most people can't reliably beat ABX testing on Opus at 96
http://listening-test.coresv.net/results.htm
Why does 5kbps opus sound shittier than 5kbps wma? Opus vbr encoding doesn't go this low so I have to use cbr.
>mfw listening to 415kb/s
>>51927913
>mostly
Is opus = ogg?
>>51933603
Not at all.
>>51929671
M-muh freedoms
>>51933603
No, OGG is a container for open source video and audio codecs. Opus audio by itself will be encoded to .opus if not placed inside a container.
opus master race
>>51934158
>tfw open sores audio codec beats closed source ones
I'm pretty impressed to be honest.
>>51928491
Barely anything plays Opus. Tons of devices can play AAC.
>>51934323
I don't know about appleshit but
>Windows
>Linux
>Android
>PMPs with Rockbox
all these play opus just fine
>>51934323
over 90% of devices can play opus now. Even itoys.
>>51927867
this thread is as good a place as any to ask I guess
what is a good program that can split a flac image into tracks using the cue sheet? I mean I'm sure it can be done but haven't been able to find any decent software to do it. is learning the commands for ffmpeg my only choice?
>>51934484
i do that with foobar2k
drag the .cue file to a playlist and then all the tracks are shown individually
then you can convert them or whatever
>>51934496
sweet, thanks
This is my first time hearing of Opus. So if the compression is as good as it sounds how long until it becomes the standard?
>>51934783
Probably a few more years as software support grows to near 100%. Currently android music players like poweramp don't support it. However MX Player and Neutron Music player do.
>>51934783
a long time because normies only stream shit from spotify and/or download 128kbps mp3s.
>>51934863
there's also aimp and gonemad
>>51933725
opus is usually (always?) in an ogg container, so kind of
>>51933887
.opus is an ogg container too, it's just more clear
>>51934783
normies don't care, it is used in mumble though and webm2 so all is not lost
>converting from flac
why bother? flac doesn't take up much space (roughly 230-350mb / album) & buying new space space is dirt cheap
>>51934986
yeah let me plug a 500gb hard drive on my phone
>>51934986
It's a placebo. We don't use FLAC for the same reason we don't store 50GB 1080p movie blu-ray remuxes. Even if you have a PB of storage, FLAC would needlessly waste storage.
>>51935025
>buy a 500gb microsd card
>put in your phone
what's the problem?
>>51935035
flac makes music future proof. wasting time on transcoding into lossy formats is just a waste of time. and storage is cheap, unless you're a poorfag
>>51935094
If storage was cheap being poor wouldn't be an issue
What encoding settings do you use? I can easily tell the difference between FLAC and this, what am I doing wrong?ffmpeg -i 01\ -\ Crawlersout.flac -acodec libopus -b:a 192k -vbr on -compression_level 10 -ar 24000 test.opus
>>51935225
i just add --comp 10 to the default parameters from foobar2k
>>51935105
and since it's cheap, stop whining and buy some
>>51935094
So does Opus. You encode to 128-160 vbr and play that until you die. It takes up less space to for the same audible quality too.
>>51934783
Never, because AAC exists.
ffmpeg -i in.flac -ar 48000 -ac 2 -c:a libopus -b:a 128k out.opus
am I doing it right?
>>51935413
And it's deprecated. And Opus is better.
So what's the best for my ears, 96 128 or 192?
>>51935473
No. Use opusenc 0.1.9 (from opus-tools) compiled with libopus 1.1.1
>>51935505
128 vbr is enough senpai
>>51935511
Is there any difference?
Also: checked
>>51935505
256 or bust.
>>51934863
Android 5 supports Opus natively, so every musix player which uses Android's media player thing supports Opus.
>>51935511
Why? Also, it shits the metadata.
>>51935551
What? I converted my entire FLAC library with opusenc and all the metadata was retained. You must be doing something wrong.
>>51935576
Happened a while ago, but it the problem seems to be gone now.
>>51935505
Do ABX tests to find out.
>>51935485
I have 3TB of content on my machine and not a single piece of opus.
Seems no one cares about Opus in a world where AAC exists.
>>51935770
>I didn't download something in Opus
>Therefore nobody does
Nice projecting, idiot.
>>51935770
AAC is a relic of a bygone age of shitty scene groups that created shitty standards thay focused ln filesize rather than quality.
>>51935869
Nobody encodes in it. Sorry if that triggers you.
>>51929772
I use ffmpeg and opusenc
lossless input -> wav -> opus
>>51935924
I do
>>51935924
I recently switched from mp3 to opus. Shit is so cash.
Post exambles pls
>>51935982
And who are you?
>>51935770
There's no reason for anyone to distribute anything but FLAC, the only reason for using things like MP3, AAC, Opus et al. is for when you have storage or platform specific concerns. I don't share my personal lossy encodes of my content, just download the FLAC, re-encode it to your preferred format and delete the originals if you need the space.
Why would you distribute in lossy formats? It only prevents people from picking their preffered format now and in the future as well.
>>51935924
Eat shit apple shill. Opus shits all over aac. I stopped using aac and switched to opus for good.
>>51936017
Who the fuck are you, mr big shot? Eat shit, you're on the same level as everyone else here no matter what you think.
>>51935924
People who are distributing their music to the unwashed masses (such as yourself) will encode shit in mp3 because it will "just werk" for everyone, with the exception being Apple using AAC because it will just werk on their ishit. Opus is too new at this point for people to distribute their music in it. If you want music in opus, you have to download a FLAC or rip a Wav from a CD yourself. Hopefully we'll get away from mp3 in the future, but the adoption of this shit is typically very slow.
Opus is already used in VOIP applications because it rapes every other codec by far at low bitrates. Also, Opus is REQUIRED to be implemented for the WebRTC standard, so that should be a good boost to its adoption. AAC is just patented-encumbered shit and should not be used for anything.
>>51936025
Eat shit niger. It's because of autists like you that we havento deal with faggots like coalgirls. FLAC is a meme.
>>51935924
Nobody wants to use aac you know. It is less efficient than opus.
>>51936055
Are you retarded? Where do you think people re-encode from? If those didn't exist you wouldn't be able to take their audio streams and re-encode them in a different codec, they're using it as it's intended which is for archival.
The only thing stopping me from moving to opus is the lack of support on Android.
It's supposed to be built into android 5+, but I have yet to find a good app supporting it.
>>51935924
>argumentum ad populum
>hasty conclusion based on small anecdotal sample size
jej
>>51936055
>Doesn't understand the point of downloading lossless
Jesus fuck
>>51936100
>what is mx player
for i in *.mp3; do
ffmpeg -i "$i" "$i".flac
done
>>51936138
That doesn't do what you think it does.
>>51936138
Now SEED.
>>51929192
What media players on Android support it?
converted 100 songs from my playlist to opus 128, I had sound issues with like 3 songs so that's deal breaker for me
it was really noticeable distortion in a few places
>>51936012
Examples of what
Here's one on filesize.
flac - v0 - 128kbps vbr
>>51936122
There is no point to downloading lossless. You can't trust the encoder that he ripped the flacs straight from the CD. He could have converted 128 vbr opus to flacs and nobody would ever know he did it because you can also forge logs.
>>51936100
m8 there are 4 players with opus support for android a couple of posts above
>>51936170
you can, you know, use your ears to tell the difference
there are really few underage retards converting from 128 mp3 to flac anyway, no need to worry
>>51936170
>what is bandcamp
also
>what is spectrum analyzer
>>51936168
What did you use for conversion, post source and output samples if you can please.
>>51936170
>He could have converted 128 vbr opus to flacs and nobody would ever know he did it
That's what spectrum analysers are for. It's pretty easy to identify if something has been converted from lossy.
Also, just because someone CAN do that, it doesn't mean that most people do.
>>51936188
>spoonfeeding
wasted dubs
>>51936025
>and delete the originals if you need the space.
This is why FLAC is a meme. You are relying on others being generous enough to sit on bloat and upload it to you.
The fact is, there's no reason for anyone to distribute in anything but AAC. That's why all good groups use it.
>>51936040
If you don't release you're irrelevant. You can encode in AC-3 for all I care.
ITT: people who will never pass any private tracker interviews
>>51936210
I used foobar, I don't have them anymore since I'm patiently waiting for Poweramp to support opus and try 192, shouldn't be a problem at that bitrate
let me see if I remember the tracks to try it out
>>51936168
>128
>Not 256
Did you even read the transparency article on HA?
>>51936202
>>51936213
The analyzer won't do jack shit since Opus cuts off at 20khz and more music is encoded to 20khz on CDs.
FLAC now, FLAC tomorrow, FLAC forever!
>>51936170
This can be said for literally anything though, how do you know your 320k mp3 isn't just some 90k AAC file transcoded? This sounds like early RIAA propaganda
>pirated music will NEVER sound the same as a CD
You're forgetting that some sites demand that artists upload in a losless format, given that a lot of music is produced digitally now it's not hard to imagine they're just exporting from their DAW to wav and shipping that.
---------------------------------------->8
>the point of no return from interesting thread into ebin shitposting
>>51936268
>Autism now, Autism tomorrow, Autism forever
>>51936255
some people in here were shilling that bitrate so I had to try it out, I converted a few tracks with good results so I gave it a try with 100 songs
>>51936246
I'm going to assume you're trolling for attention or to pass the time. Sorry but I'm not going to respond to you seriously anymore, I hope you understand given the place we're in.
>>51936257
>more music is encoded to 20khz on CDs
No, it's mastered at 22.05KHz, idiot. Just because some indie guy in his garage mastered his CD wrong, it doesn't mean that proper audio engineers don't do it correctly.
>>51936188
What I really meant is that I'm a bit salty that neither poweramp or vanilla supports it on my phone.
Although the latter might be Sonys fault in my case.
>>51936087
>re-encode from encodes
Get out.
>>51936314
More people are starting to master at 20Khz you dipshit. Human ears literally cannot hear above 20KHz and most adults are completely fucking deaf above 16-18Khz.
>>51936405
Flac is lossless you idiot, there's no problem in going from flac to some other format.
>>51936408
>not targeting dogs as an audience
Got it, in the song I'm testing, the bass doesn't have that punch like in the original FLAC (opus 128 vs flac btw)
>>51936408
>More people are starting to master at 20Khz you dipshit
Do you have any proof of that? I'm talking about CD releases here, not Web ones or whatever.
>>51936408
THIS.
>>51936460
Resample FLAC file to 48Khz and post spectrum of both files.
>>51936454
You don't get the point of an encode, do you?
>muh FLAC muh FLAC muh FLAC muh FLAC!
The question of OPUS vs. MP3 should not be over the subject of sound quality, as audio quality is an inane triviality compared to more important issues.
OPUS should always be used over MP3 because OPUS is free as in freedom. The MP3 file format is a patented file format, and therefore violates your freedom: we do not and cannot fully know what MP3 may be doing as a file format, and attempting to modify it would be illegal by international law. This violates fundamental freedoms to modify programmes and files which are on our systems. To run an MP3 file format, you may need to install proprietary decoders, programmes or codecs, which should be discouraged at all costs.
OPUS is a legitimate alternative to the MP3 format, it is widely compatible with most systems and players, and if difficulty arises, one can always install free, non-proprietary programmes to play them.
>>51936577
Opus is 3C-BSD, not GPL.
>>51936577
MP3 is not proprietary. Free encoders/decoders exist.
It's patent encumbered however, which can limit use of the codec and will restrict freedoms.
>>51936632
that's still free as in stallman
>>51928993
Losing something that you will never hear
>>51936169
Post the archives.
>>51936532
The only point I don't get is yours. The intent behind using FLAC is to have a lossless yet reasonably sized archival copy of some audio, how is that hard to understand?
>>51936644
No it's not, the code can be reused in proprietary software, which is one of the things that GPL protects against.
>>51936700
A license that doesn't protect against that is not copyleft, but it is still a free license. If you really want GPL-licensed opus you can redistribute it to yourself under GPL
Opus
144kbps
AIMP on andoid
Foobar2000 on windows
Rockbox on sansa clip+
I wish the faggots at IETF would made it so you can use 44.1KHz
All dat re-sampling ;_;
>>51936760
Everything that isn't complete shit supports both 44.1 and 48KHz output.
>>51936697
And it doesn't belong in an encode. Nor is there any reason to be wasting bandwidth by releasing anything in FLAC.
>b...but muh transcode!
You wouldn't have to transcode if they released it in AAC. It would be perfect as-is. See how that works?
>>51936684
Not that Anon but if you want you can pick a sample from here and what encoding format/settings you want
Trigger warning: it's all garbage
http://pastebin.com/eYH4XPSt
>>51936577
you don't need to convince me, I'll change as soon as poweramp works on it
>>51936789
Oh wow you're retarded
>>51936501
how is the spectrum going to change what I hear?
you people need to stop it with that shit, and just try it out
>>51936816
>he wants FLAC so he can re-encode encodes for smaller size
>doesn't understand how that shows the original releaser missed the very point of an encode
>calls others retarded
>>51936804
forum.powerampapp.com/index.php?/topic/3469-opus-codec/
>2012
good luck anon
>>51936863
Not him but you release it in FLAC so you can convert it to whatever the fuck you want. If you release it in AAC, you're making it hard for a part of the population that can't play (yes, it exist).
Usually everything is released in FLAC and MP3, covering all needs.
>>51936892
Yeah, I remember reading that. A man can only dream....
>>51936863
Nobodies wants to re-encode, some people have to. I don't personally, in the anime scene re-encodes are pretty common for audio streams, you act like someone can't do multiple releases of the same media, check any site and notice a group releasing 8-bit, 10-bit, 720p, 1080p, flac, vorbis, aac, etc.
Just because you can't afford the space doesn't mean everyone is in your situation where they have to settle for AAC now and forever, that's just stupid when you have the option to use whatever you want. Seriously if you're not trolling explain to me why you would want to be locked into a particular format forever, what advantage does that have?
You sound like one of those yify guys or fucking axxo people who still care about people who use fucking CDs.
>>51936760
>using vbr
Disgusting
>>51927867
I hate this meme
>>51937091
You're kidding, right? It says right in the Opus documentation that VBR os preferable to CBR in terms of quality.
>>51937110
>im a dumb wincuck
There's a reason it's called "Bloatgirls"
>>51936667
Is still losing inaudible frequencies. OP is a liar.
How do u even NAVIgate that library
>>51937091
CBR shouldn't be necessary in an ideal encoding format.
>>51937159
What up TSEEnami
>>51937194
Nothing much
Just enjoying the after glow
>>51937226
I bet you're bummed you couldn't smash today
Would have been fucking great, even through that shit was nbome
>>51937145
Holy fuck, I thought people were just joking.
>>51937141
Windows user here, I've been using Opus for as long as possible. Why mention Windows?
>>51937286
he ran out of memes
>>51937277
>Implying that's not an acceptable filesize
Fucking weebs can't afford hard drives
>>51937145
>those tiny disks
No wonder you hate flac so much.
>>51937337
2/10 bait
>>51936790
I'm leaving right now so this offer is gone now, someone else will have to do it.
>>51937374
>hurt feelings
lol
>>51937337
Being 2.5GB larger than something with the exact same perceivable quality qualifies as "bloat."
Here it is muxed.
>>51937409
>LOL GUYS YIFY IS THE BEST
>>51937431
Obvious troll is obvious
>>51937431
I love how religious types always lose it when faced with logic and reason.
>>51937409
>exact same perceivable quality
Just because you're deaf doesn't mean everyone is. Also you act like AAC isn't going to be dwarfed in the future, hell it's dwarfed by opus right now if you want to talk about "perceivable quality".
>>51927913
>mostly
You're retarded
>>51936285
underrated post
>>51937469
Opus has no advantages over AAC above 32kbps/channel or so. And who cares if something 10% smaller comes along when AAC's size is fine today?
I have stuff in 320kbps MP3. Am I tearing my hair out because it could be in 256k Opus or AAC? No. The difference is insignificant.
The difference between FLAC and lossy is not.
>>51937602
>10% smaller
try 60%
>>51937666
What's 60% smaller than AAC at the same quality? Hint: nothing. And there will be nothing in your lifetime.
>>51937686
>What's 60% smaller than AAC at the same quality?
Asian dicks.
They might be smaller but they're also much, much stiffer and harder when erect.
>>51935930
please share code
>>51937734
lewd
>>51935225
why are you downsampling to 24KHz?
>>51937453
>>51937464
samefag redditor
0/10
>>51937276
not gonna lie, i dont think its bad cuz its fake acid, just a tad bit too strong for what i took...
As I came up I was watching Elf with Will Ferell in health class
We had an orchestra for christmas today and then our choir sang hallelujah. Shit was unfucking believable.
Then I had sculpture where two friends ended up being my vestige for my own personal thoughts and I ended up talking to myself
During lunch I was outside and I was getting slightly Yopo vibes
and shit continued from there....
I feel like the difference between acid and dmt shit is like acid works on a timeline where time is a currency and yopo you can understand that there is time, however its more like consistently waking up from previous lives and realizing that you live forever and your consciousness is merely the vestige of a greater story:the Universe.
>>51938923
As I said earlier
Enhanced perception of the Organic Reality that is the the 5th Bardo
bump
post encoding settings
>compression
>2015
lol why. storage is so fucking cheap.
>>51939237opusenc - -bitrate 256K infile outfile
All you need.
>>51939313
>256K
total madman
>>51939237
>>51939291
Then buy me some. I have two ports free.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00OP2PKH2
>>51933563
>>51937485
>hurr durr he converted a few mp3 to another lossy codec which takes less space
>hurr durr it triggers my autism
>hurr durr he's retarded
hello audiophiles
>>51939371
>http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00OP2PKH2
I'm tempted Anon
>>51941167
What the fuck is happening in this video
>>51941509
I think he's either receiving intense aural pleasure or cringing, I can't tell
>>51941509
placebophile hears exactly what he wants to hear
>>51938523
Because sounds higher than 20kHz aren't audible with human ears?
>>51929231
This. 96kbps and 128kbps Opus aren't transparent for me. 192 is a good sweet spot.
>>51943224
but a 24KHz sampling rate can only represent frequencies up to 12KHz
why do you think cd's are 44.1KHz?
>>51937602
>moving the goal post
>acting as if 10% is a small amount
>I don't care so nobody should care
What are you 10 years old?
>not using mp3
>being a special snowflake
>>51945147
do you even /g/?
I'm all for open source and Opus should be the default for web audio, especially when you need low latency (IMs, voice chatting).
But I don't see the point in using Opus over AAC for offline music.
I've yet to see proof of Opus being better than AAC at say 128kbps. Comparing bitrates under 100kbps is kinda irrelevant, because they both lose transparency at that point anyway.
AAC has been thoroughly tested at this point, with Opus it's easier to run into problematic samples.
>>51935094
>what's the problem?
Recent smartphones don't have sd card slot because of "le cloud maymay"
>>51944860
He didn't move the goalpost, you're moving it right now. He was responding to an anon (presumably you), who said that AAC is "dwarfed" by opus. It's not dwarfed by anything. You're a retard. Choose your words more carefully next time.
>not just zipping your flacs
>>51939313
>type that out for hundreds upon hundreds of flacs
>>51935546
nah most players are library based, i think they'll specifically have to scan for .opus files
>>51935225
You should not use a sampling rate of 24kHz. Try 44.1.
>>51937602
>The difference is insignificant.
>The difference between FLAC and lossy is not.
That really depends, though. My music collection is mostly FLAC, though not entirely. It's like 180GB and while it's growing, it's growing quite slowly. If I were to re-encode everything, let's say I'd get it down to 60GB.
Now, it sits on a 12TB RAID volume. Do I particularly care about using 180 or 60GB out of 12TB? No, not really and definitely not enough to go through the whole hassle and time it would require to re-encode everything.
So yes, to me the difference in file size is in fact insignificant. Maybe it's not for you, because you have an absolutely fuckhuge collection or very little storage, but that doesn't make it some universal truth for everyone's use case.
So, is anyone using Subsonic to stream their music to Android? I'm currently using Vorbis for transcoding, has anyone gotten Opus to work?
>>51941528
cringing, you can literally hear the high notes stabbing him in the eardrums.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L34S4Tt1EuQ
I'm the opposite, I converted all my mp3 collection to FLAC and the sound quality is noticeable, I don't care about library size because quality gain is worth it and I have tons of HDD.
>>51946565
lol, audiophiles are such faggots
>>51928894
>>51928960
>>51936667
Get the hell out of here.
>>51927867
dumb frogpostet
>>51945900
>It's not dwarfed by anything
Nigger are you serious? Run tests yourself if you don't believe it.
>>51927867
>96kbps
>not at least 128kbps
>>51929772
ffmpeg and a python script I made, it's extremely simple you should do it yourself.
>>51936165
AIMP
>>51932562
Dont listen to this poorfag fool lol
Use FLAC
>>51947760
Kill yourself. You are the reason coalgirls exists.
>>51941509
he's listening to some top-dollar headphones that are actually bad,like real bad
also you're a nigger creampie sploodge
>>51934932
Teamspeak3 also
Why the fuck doesnt 4chan allow opus on wsg and gif?
How do I enable opus support in Winamp?
>>51939371
What program is this?
>>51945147
dumb normieposter
