http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/11/02/microsoft-confirms-unstoppable-windows-10-tracking/
Last week changes to the Windows 10 upgrade path mean it is going to become increasingly difficult for any non-techy users to avoid being pushed to Microsoft MSFT +0.00%’s new operating system. But given Windows 10 is better than Windows 7 and Windows 8, why would that be a problem? Because of policies like this…
Speaking to PC World, Microsoft Corporate Vice President Joe Belfiore explained that Windows 10 is constantly tracking how it operates and how you are using it and sending that information back to Microsoft by default. More importantly he also confirmed that, despite offering some options to turn elements of tracking off, core data collection simply cannot be stopped:
“In the cases where we’ve not provided options, we feel that those things have to do with the health of the system,” he said. “In the case of knowing that our system that we’ve created is crashing, or is having serious performance problems, we view that as so helpful to the ecosystem and so not an issue of personal privacy, that today we collect that data so that we make that experience better for everyone.”
This backs up detailed data that some had chosen to dismiss as conspiracy theories.
I honestly don't see the issue in them having a way of finding and fixing bugs, it just tells me they're actively supporting the system.
But I agree they should give the user the option to participate or not.
>>51229007
i dont claim to be particularly smart but ive come up with an excellent solution to this non-problem
IF YOU DONT LIKE IT DONT USE IT
>>51229103
That's easy to say but not a solution when the product you're talking about is market leading and there's no real alternative.
>>51229076
I agree. I don't really mind if they have access to my credit card info and other keystrokes. I trust them since they've been around for almost 30 years, and I'm not doing anything illegal.
>>51229007
While this particular issue is not something I care a lot about, I don't like where Microsoft is heading these days. It seems like they are trying to mimic both Google and Apple, as they come to realize that as a traditional software corporation, there's not much potential for growth. So they started with data mining and selling overpriced shitty hardware like their competitors.
>>51229127
>PC crashes
>microsoft finds out why and fixes it
wowow its so bad im really scared this is very malicious
>>51229157
I firmly agree. It is a necessary sacrifice to get software working properly.
This literally does not affect me in any way.
Semi-polite sage.
Can't I just block MS ips in my router?
>>51229157
Are you doing alright? That has nothing to do with the user tracking. It's a bullshit story made up to justify what they're doing.
why the fuck would I want them randomly taking snapshots of my usage. i have questionable porn open 24/7. i dont need them dictating how I should spend my free time.
>>51229179
Just get TinyWall and set it up to allow only programs you trust. everything else will be blocked.
>>51229129
The best bait is sincerity
>>51229196
That sounds massively inconvenient.
Also, they don't track what kind of porn you watch, you dingus.
>>51229182
im fine im having a pretty good day today how about you :)?
>>51229196
> i have questionable porn open 24/7. i dont need them dictating how I should spend my free time.
They can't tell you what porn to watch. If a human even sees the data in the first place (which is unlikely, they're going to do most of the number-crunching with an AI), that person can't open a chat window on your machine and say to you "ew incest gross, lol". They're just gonna go "yeah people are fucked up" and move on. Then probably fap to it later.
BOTNET
O
T
N
E
T
>>51229182
I just want to add when government and security agencies around the world are giving out instructions on how to improve your Windows 10 operating system's privacy and security settings you know there's something wrong with the base system.
The whole point is not whether they are doing questionable stuff right now, the point is that the infrastructure is there. And that is NOT a good thing or even acceptable.
>>51229276
Why?
>>51229276
Why is it "unacceptable"? It's 2015! Get over it.
>>51229276
What a dumb argument.
I do sysadmin work for thousands of endpoints across many companies. It would take about 10 minutes for me to issue commands to wipe every single hard drive and corrupts every single OS on every workstation and server.
The infrastructure is there, but they pay me to use this power for good. If Microsoft actually started using that data to incriminate average joe or posting their stuff publicly, it would be a huge PR fiasco and MS would go down the drain. Every business would cease to use it.
>>51229276
> And that is NOT a good thing or even acceptable.
This is kind of how general purpose computing works. It's an infrastructure for anything. The problem of usage is an incentive problem, not a technological problem.
All the surveillance in the world is toothless if the enforcement and legislative systems are benign. But you cannot get people to want less data. As a species we're predicated on predictive modeling and trying to see the future.
I know this sounds crazy but we really are going to need to fix human nature, not try curbing the growth in data acquisition and intelligence.
>>51229007
>set up small proxy server on your network
>block all undesired traffic from there
wew lads
>>51229346
>need to update
>user information is being sent through windows update
>have to choose between improved privacy or no security updates
that doesn't work friend
>>51229076
>I honestly don't see the issue in them having a way of finding and fixing bugs
they have a shitload of users, some of those are devs. they could have a good bug reporting system instead of having to track their users. just like linux does... except microsoft could do even better.
>>51229366
>need to update
just wait for service packs or critical updates and download them yourself
>>51229336
I totally agree. We need to become one under the hive.
Installing gentoo sure stops it
>>51229007
But Google nonstop spying on you is not a problem.
>>51229386
that makes you vulnerable to 0 day exploits and selecting updates manually doesn't make a difference whatsoever
>>51229292
C ' M O N
'
M
O
N
>>51229415
if there is a zero day you're fucked either way until MS issues a fix, thus making your point moot
I don't see the issue, they're logging the stuff you do to make Windows better
>>51229435
My point is that without security updates it won't be fixed at all. Think for a second.
>>51229411
Google is not my operating system.
>>51229411
you can block google easily. plus google isn't logging your keystrokes. try blocking microsoft if you use their OS...
>>51229446
see >>51229385
>>51229336
>But you cannot get people to want less data.
you mean corporations. people dgaf about data.
>>51229454
and my point is, if there's a zero day in win10 you can rest assured you will hear about it, unless you live under a rock. then you can just download the patch from MS website and apply it yourself when they fix it.
let's be serious here, nobody needs to be always up to date with windows, unless you're a huge corporation or sec firm. if you're afraid of the botnet, block all traffic from a separate machine (router, proxy, etc) and that's it.
Microsoft can use this information to help it make investments in the future, Google and Twitter collect data too.
>>51229509
>nobody needs to be always up to date with windows
uh, critical security fixes, updates to prevent future the misuse of future zero day exploits. (zero day project). There are plenty of reasons to be up to date.
>>51229471
>Google is not my operating system.
Look at your phone and say that again.
>>51229385
and this is what I'm talking about:
>>51224338
blind use doesn't know where, or how, to send feedback and suggestions.
>every tech savy user disables tracking in windows 10
>can't get data from them to optimize windows
>Windows 11 based on data from 45 y/o soccer moms looking at cat pictures on facebook
>>51229497
>you mean corporations. people dgaf about data.
No I mean people. Anyone who makes decisions, engineers, systems designers, artists, managers, everyone. Data is how you know you're doing things right. If 'people' don't care about data, those people are stupid. Decision making without information is relying on faith.
Just let me see what you're sending before you send.
>>51229616
Yeah, those search results will sure help with the development of Windows. What are they creating a library of information?
>>51229599
you know you can use android without being spied upon, right? you can use alternatives to google's play store, and you don't really need a google account to use android.
>>51229639
Windows has search features. You know, that thing that lets you find data on your hard drive by entering search conditions?
Holy shit some of you people are retarded.
>>51229653
No, you are for thinking a basic future like that can somehow improve with collected personal data.
>>51229643
>you know you can use android without being spied upon, right?
You still use 1001 google services daily, every website uses google analytics to track you, you visit Youtube, use gmail, use google maps, and this is only the tip of the iceberg. Not even mentioning the complete fucking security joke that Android is, with its horrible versioning and update support.
Microsoft has been the smaller evil for a decade now.
>>51229634
there is a difference between simple "data" and knowledge. corporations want data about you to analyze and push for their products, people (engineers, systems designers, artists, managers, everyone) want to learn things and do useful things with that. it's not the same objective, not the same problem. you can give "data" to the people without having to spy on them.
>>51229706
sure you can, my point is that you are not FORCED to that, even if you use their products.
>Not even mentioning the complete fucking security joke that Android is, with its horrible versioning and update support
blame the multiple vendors out there. microsoft has had the same problem for decades...
>>51229262
Did you miss the memo where every company is involved in prism and that the nsa is especially targeting Linux users?
If you connect to the Internet it's already too late. The base systems are all wide open.
>>51229616
This just explains why the stated reasons for the tracking don't make sense.
I don't want an OS that's locked down so that I can't optimize it myself to my particular workflow.
The problem isn't that Windows has bad and stupid defaults, the real problem is that it's getting harder and harder to change them as more options for user control disappear.
>>51229616
As an extension of this, maybe if we all send fake data to microsoft we could get them to abandon this trainwreck of spyware?
>>51229007
Windows confirmed for literal botnet.
Also forced updates, enjoy having no control over your computer.
>>51229770
I'm well aware don't worry. The thing is with Windows you also have to take into consideration that your private data is being shared with third party developers and advertisers in the form of tracking. That's what governments and the EU are warning users for.
Who cares? Anyone sane is using Linux anyway.
>>51229906
>falling for the meme
>>51229812
Oh well. There are so many other things in my life I have no control over as well. I'm more concerned with my rights as a citizen and the guarantees I have to any health issues I might develop.
Does the article not say you can disable the options in the enterprise version or am I missing something?
Also how would they prevent you from blocking the connection with a firewall or at the router?
>>51229964
I guess right to privacy doesn't matter then.
>>51229735
>blame the multiple vendors out there. microsoft has had the same problem for decades...
Yeah, except that if you get a Dell laptop with Windows, or an Asus one, they both get security updates properly.
On Android, you are fucked.
>>51229616
>tech savvy
Knowing how to install steam is not "tech savvyness"
>>51230026
Everything can be disabled in Enterprise version. And no they can't stop you from using hosts files, firewalls, and router blocking.
>>51229735
>microsoft has had the same problem for decades...
Windows Updates exists on all machines that run Windows. Manufacturers have nothing to do with the security updates on laptops and desktops that they sell.
The same can't be said about Android in which Google does not handle updates and manufacturers / carriers refuse to do anything responsible with security.
>>51229713
This is somewhat true.
A better comparison is 'data' and 'information' (or knowledge works, too).
Data is the 250,000 rows describing each visit to my website. Each row includes as much information as Google is able to derive: OS, screensize, system fonts, browser agent/configurations, and even demographics(race, age, sex, etc) if they tie your browser fingerprint to their services or other services where you may have inputted those.
Information is what I do with those 250,000 rows. I'll show management that the majority of our hits are from blacks using Windows, and basically none of the hits are of a screensize under 1280p. The 'Information' is displayed via easy to read charts and graphs, so management can make a decision like:
>Well, we'll include coupons for KFC and allow the web designers to not give a fuck about people still using 800x600 desktops.
>tl;dr
Information is extrapolated from data.
>>51229007
>Microsoft Admits Windows 10 Automatic Spying Cannot Be Stopped
>implying ring -2 cpu code cannot stop os from spying
Why haven't you installed linux/gnu yet?!
>>51230175
>the meme
>here it is again
the kekkels
>>51229076
nsa shill pls
>>51230182
You could honestly start with Linux Mint.
>>51230175
Fuck, I thought that was a massive yellow ballsack for a bit.
Had to stare for a while.
>>51230135
>The same can't be said about Android in which Google does not handle updates and manufacturers / carriers refuse to do anything responsible with security.
android is open source, manufacturers / carriers are free to take the source code and build an updated system. instead, what happens the most is that manufacturers won't build updates and, even if they do, some carriers will not let people update their phones.
plus, you can also blame microsoft for charging these manufacturers for using liunx.
>>51230056
>Yeah, except that if you get a Dell laptop with Windows, or an Asus one, they both get security updates properly.
did Dell and Asus offer free updates for their laptops? microsoft is now offering free updates to win10, but neither microsoft nor any vendors offered free updates like google or other android vendors do.
>>51229276
Oh boy, so many faggots misinterpreted such a simple statement.
>>51230207
>Dell and Asus offer free updates for their laptops? microsoft is now offering free updates to win10, but neither microsoft nor any vendors offered free updates like google or other android vendors do.
But what about BIOS updates? Most vendors don't support older laptop models.
>>51230207
>neither microsoft nor any vendors offered free updates like google or other android vendors do.
They have been offering security updates since nearly two fucking decades.
Android isn't as fast when it comes to security updates, nor does its ecosystem cover older platforms (typical Windows system gets security fixes for a decade), and Android has way worse security problems - people can hack your phone by sending an MMS, without you even opening it. The last time Windows had so bad problems was back before XP SP2 came out, 12 years ago.
>>51230207
>android is open source, manufacturers / carriers are free to take the source code and build an updated system. instead, what happens the most is that manufacturers won't build updates and, even if they do, some carriers will not let people update their phones.
Why did you repeat exactly what I said?
If their intentions are so benevolent surely they'd have no problem fully disclosing what and how much info gets sent back to microshit.
>>51230200
>Mint
My keks can be heard for miles!
>>51230287
What's wrong with it?
>>51229316
HAHAHAHAHA!
JESUS FUCKING CHRIST
Do the words too big to fail mean nothing to anybody?
Nobody could care if MS did this. They love Steve Balmer and Gates and Apple too.
Literally no normie cares about privacy.
>>51230310
Why are you responding to me with this post?
>>51230310
Too big to fail is a maymay
>>51230325
>>51229316
>If Microsoft actually started using that data to incriminate average joe or posting their stuff publicly, it would be a huge PR fiasco and MS would go down the drain. Every business would cease to use it.
>>51229157
>PC crashes
>"something happened"
>Microsoft "finds out" and doesn't fix it
Oh well
>mfw people think host based firewalls installed on the application layer of a literal botnet OS is enough to stop this
>mfw i have no faec
>>51229007
All hail Saint Nutella!
>>51229706
>every website uses google analytics to track you
Say that to uMatrix blocking ganalytics everytime, everywhere.
>Youtube
Just a video website that holds no important information.
>gmail
Nope, guess what, there are other very good e-mail providers.
>google maps
Osmand is good enough.
I have installed the Win 10 64b. Enterprise LB..something.
I've ran some warhack scripts from the github (debloat)
What else should I consider?
>>51230742
Youtube profiles you based on many factors, including IP address, cookies, and whether or not you're logged onto google. Any video you watch is used to establish a profile of you.
>>51230763
Consider uninstalling it and try a free open source operating system.
>>51230788
any good alternative?
>>51230788
>what are VPNs
>what is clearing cookies/cache/history every time you leave a website
>>51229127
Implying GNU/Linux isn't a viable alternative.
>>51230742
>trusting third-party add-ons
>trusting uMatrix to not go ABP selling info
>they don't know your data whether you logged in or not in YouTube
>other e-mail providers don't also track you
>other traffic/direction guide maps don't track you
Did you know that any website can get your approximate location, web browser, os, etc regardless of any addons?
>>51230806
Viewtube. Doesn't use the official player so it doesn't count toward views. I've viewed hundreds of videos with it and none of them are in my view history. It also lets you download videos, chose the codec you want to view with, and some other stuff I don't remember.
>>51230868
epic meme i like it upvoted tb.h f.am
>>51230806
goblinrefuge
>>51229770
>and that the nsa is especially targeting Linux users?
I did miss that memo, please link
>>51230816
lmao. i remember when i was 12.
Every one of you only 'blaming' Microsoft for this need to watch Citizenfour.
PRIMS; whatever the fuck the Britbongs used (the most invasive system?), etc. all have 'you'
>>51231018
Whatever you say, rajeesh.
>>51230935
use your brain, friend.
of course they will target the line of operating systems that are more secure and give CP hoarding anons something to brag about. kinda like tor
>>51231034
i'm saying it's quite naive to ONLY attack Microsoft for privacy invading policies
>>51230858
muh gems
Install linux.
also, try out diaspora, libre,fm, mediagoblin, or identi.ca.
>>51231040
My brain thinks many things but proves nothing
>get windows 10
>my computer freezes at almost every single click now
>ran SUPER fast with 7
DO NOT GET THIS PIECE OF SHIT OS
>>51229007
>Microsoft Admits Windows 10 Automatic Spying Cannot Be Stopped
yes it can; by coding windows 10 to not spy in the first place.
That they've admitted it's there and "cannot be stopped" is a straight up admission they knowingly facilitated it.
Why oh why has this not become a class action lawsuit already?
>>51229127
>and there's no real alternative
>>51229653
they're just shills with an agenda.
>>51230788
Assuming your blocking google analytics, all youtube can get from you is a cookie and and IP address. While that's enough to recognize a visitor as unique, it cannot be linked back to you specifically and simply deleting the cookie when you leave the site "resets" the profile.
>>51230349
I don't think you really understand the value of private business data.
In China, all of the internet goes through 3 major nodes where they sniff every packet and where its going so they can gather data and filter content.
Without VPNs, businesses literally would not do business in China. They HAD to allow VPNs because of this.
Similarly, if MS did the same, business would tell MS to fuck off and fully switch to Linux or OSX.
>>51231189
Windows is over 85% of desktop OS marketshare, and I'm sure that percentage is even higher among enterprise usage.
Nearly all LOB applications are only Windows. Many support OSX or Linux, but tend to have less features or are buggy as hell.
Sorry, but sometimes there literally is no alternative to Windows.
>>51231135
Because you clicked the tiny little lines that say "By clicking this you accept to give your soul to Microsoft".
>>51231287
That seems like an extremely inefficient way to create a 2D map.
I like it.
Miss me yet?
>>51231052
Don't you have a poo to take to the loo, rajeesh?
>>51229211
truu
>>51231522
I already took it in ur mum's mouth m8 ;^)
>knows the botnet is real and cannot be stopped
>complains about the botnet every single day
>makes threads about the botnet every single day
>still uses the botnet
Is there a word for this kind of person?
>>51230287
you have no real argument against using mint so you just say retarded shit. average winfag in a nutshell. go back to /v/
>>51230935
They were linking it here all the time about a month ago. I'll see if I can find it.
But it's basically under the same idea of vpns and tor. People using those, will use those to hide, so we have to put a special emphasis on those.
It's free tho
>>51232529
No it's not. You need a legit windows key to get the upgrade. It's "free" in the same way OS X updates are.
>>51229214
>they don't track what kind of porn you watch, you dingus.
Would you be kind enough to submit any sort of validation to your stament?
>>51231673
C U C K
U
C
K
>>51230073
I work tech support. It basically fucking is.
>>51232631
You're going to ask me to prove a negative?
Would you be kind enough to submit some sort of validation as to the fact that they *do* track your porn?
>>51230073
If you can install steam, add an add-on to Firefox, and run dxdiag to get your specs, you're more tech savvy than 80% of all people.
>>51229943
shut the fuck up sheep
>>51232803
>/g/
>validations
you must be new here
>>51232946
Nigga, do you even see who I'm responding to?
That asshat asked for 'validations' first.
