Why can't western comics be organized and released like manga?
Run for 24 to 60 volumes and then just end. Easy to get into. No clusterfuck of writers or off model art.
>>83299925
Diamond.
The west is just fucked when it comes to editorial BS.
Someone /thread me.
Also a lot of indie/non-cape comics do that though. Like Hellboy. God bless Hellboy
>>83299925
Fuck that, I've got a much more important question. Who owns the distribution rights to Suffering-Man, and what do I have to do to get it released in print?
>>83299925
I dont think you really want an answer, I think youre just trying to cause trouble.
>>83299925
>Run for 24 to 60 volumes and then just end.
Except for the popular stuff.
>>83299925
I know this is going to sound crazy, but there are comics outside of Marvel and DC.
>>83299979
Then all the cartoons try to retell the comic exactly and either awkwardly slow pacing or awkward original episodes that contribute nothing run amuck when the show catches up to the comic.
Good writers western writers these days seem to just wanna write about one thing for 6 issues and move on. Unless the work is their OC which it pretty much never is with capeshit anymore
>>83299925
fuck off weeaboo
>>83299977
>>83300077
Here comes /co/'s innate inferiority complex.
Take this topic to another forum, OP.
>>83299925
Sounds pretty boring op
>>83299963
/thread.
One Piece may be hella long, but it has it's set end goal and it will eventually get there.
>>83299925
Sorry, but some guy need to continue this story.
Seriously? Ghost tigers?
>>83299963
>Also a lot of indie/non-cape comics do that though. Like Hellboy. God bless Hellboy
This. If you're complaining about how stories don't seem to end in western comics, or have differing creative teams, or aren't released in a linear fashion, it's probably because you decided to only read stuff from Marvel and DC and have never stuck your nose in a more niche title.
>>83299925
How can they keep making money from comics if their best character's stories end? Its ll about money and people hate new things, so instead of making new characters with new skill sets, they just revamp the same ol characters for years.
>>83300214
It was a non subtle metaphor for his growing rage at the injustices he witnessed throughout the series.
>>83300129
>reaching an actual conclusion is boring
I bet you enjoyed the O5 being brought in X Factor.
>>83300366
Sell merch, run a new series with the same writer or get new blood. Works for the japanese
>>83299925
It's not like comics from Japan don't have their own issues as well.
I'm not saying western stuff is perfect, but of the two, I prefer ours over theirs by far.
>>83300852
Whatever issues the manga industry has pales by far in comparison to the shitshow that the west has been wallowing in for years.
>>83300955
Why everytime i read a line from comics they sound as something Tumblr would say?
>>83300955
Stuff like that could very much happen in Japan but doesnt cause of cultural differences. Though having hundreds of writers over the course of a characters creation can have that shit happen to them
>>83301056
>Stuff like that could very much happen in Japan but doesnt cause of cultural differences.
So in other word could never happen.
Japanese manga series never changes author. The author might use assistants that come and but the author doesn't change.
Both approaches have ups and downs. They're so many chances for really good cape stories that would be lost if we simply retire a character that doesn't really need to be retired. All it takes is a good writer gets a crack at something and the magic happens.
On the other this eliminates real possibility for change and encourages mediocrity. Not that manga can't suffer from this, but its often less.
I could list some issues with the manga approach, but I think you all get the general idea.
As an anime fan that has tried several times over the years to break into comics I agree.
Last I heard of Captain America he was dead. Now apparently he is alive and joined the bad guys and replaced by a black guy....while at the same time not being with bad guys and not being replaced in his newest movies.
I honestly feel comics go out of their way to be in coherent. So that new 52 thing happened a few years ago. Great, if everything is being rebooted that must be the perfect time for a new person to get into it right? Well it would have helped if they fucking labeled things. Appearently the comic I wanted to read had already been rebooted like 3 times before which just makes it an even bigger miss. So I start reading the first issues and every couple of pages it says "go read this other unrelated comic if you want to figure out whats happening", characters from series I know nothing about pop in and out and just the make the whole thing a miss. Plus characters reference previous events that happened in some other run. It's the few issue of a reboot and you havn't told me what Hawk Man's powers are, why he became a hero, or what his universe is like.
I tried to get into this new thing Rebirth and the first issue starts with fucking time travel related to some other run I never read. I don't even know anything about the flash but apparently he can time travel.
Why can't ever reboot have a fucking subitlte so I know which version I am reading? Like how there is Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Kai? Why can't they just release them numerically? Why does the first issue assume I've been reading comics since the 50s and already know all the names and places? Why do I need to read everything that's ever been printed to figure out why Aquaman is fighting an alien or what the cameo character is supposed to be doing?
>>83301579
I managed to break through and I enjoyed Rebirth even though it was my first introduction to the DCU but I totally understand where you're coming from.
>>83299963
The thing that makes Hellboy great is the entire universe comes down to one guy making all the decisions and it makes for a much more cohesive story, it's the reason that chronological story time is possible.
>>83300004
/Thread
>>83302173
Man I sure do love me some 2deep4me hipster wank with shit art.
>>83300182
>but it has it's set end goal and it will eventually get there.
Bullshit it does.
>>83299925
Because you're a dumbass who follows characters and publishers instead of writers.
>>83302344
>Find the One Piece and become King of The Pirates
It's more of a foreseeable goal than 'a war on crime'.
>>83302376
It's a "war on crime". It will never happen and never begin to happen until SJ finally tells Oda its time to call it quits.
>>83301041
Because that's how modern Marvel writers their books
>>83301173
Boruto? is aready happening. Shoen junp is already falling into thecharacters-as-licence model
>>83301579
Just fucking read a wiki entry, literally that simple.
>>83302439
Then either Oda is just an absolute madman who can tie all the arcs together seamlessly into one mass of a story or I'm right and he does have a planned ending for it and everything in between.
Notice how Dragonball's arcs are very much disconnected, that was because the editors DID push Tori to do more.
>>83302585
I doubt Oda has planned the ending and everything in between. Oda worked for Toriyama. Oda knows how it is like to have a world where the story is all disconnected, so he's trying his best to make sure the world of One Piece's continuity is coherent. iirc that's something he said in one of the Q&As.
>>83303517
>I doubt Oda has planned the ending and everything in between
While not everything in between, Oda did have a basic concept of the ending planed.
>>83299925
>No clusterfuck of writers or off model art.
Yeah, that never happens with manga.
>>83301579
>Why does the first issue assume I've been reading comics since the 50s and already know all the names and places?
the vast majority of worthwhile comics are grouped by an authors run and if you start from when they take over the title to when they leave you should have no problems knowing what's going on. If information is necessary it will be explained, otherwise it won't matter.
>>83302373
Isn't that what most normies do, too? In the mainstream, it isn't the comic writer that gets popular, it's the character.
>>83302562
Why not just read all the comics on wikipedia and get it over with?
Compromise. Since you're obviously talking Marvel/DC, why not have a, say, Stupendous Spider-Man run with a "planned" beginning to end.
>>83302373
That just makes you a fanboy.
>>83299925
Capeshit problems, OP.
Not even US comics have that problem, it's pretty much a capeshit exclusive.
>>83302287
Name 5
>>83299925
This is just my opinion but i think it's fine if they continue as long as there are resolutions for individual characters. What i mean to say is have the universe moving, wrap up a character, and then the next guy can come in and do a new one. Make legacy characters, or in the cases of teams rotate out the members. I mean they kinda do it, sort of, after it's dragged on for way to long, but some of them will never die. They literally reboot the ENTIRE UNIVERSE rather than just say hey, i'm retiring, my kids doing this shit now.
>>83299973
Marvel and Kodansha's Monthly Shōnen Magazine
>>83300386
>>83300214
or, she was a psy powered mutant?
>>83299925
try comicbook herald?
>>83299925
do people make any money on manga though?
Every time someone touts Japan's way as the way things should be, I'm inclined to think that they don't actually pay attention to how things are actually done on either side of the Pacific.
Also, consistent creative teams don't necessarily insure quality. Anybody whose read their fair share of good and bad comics/manga would know this.
>>83300051
For writers I imagine it has to do with the average page rate, so most writers have to juggle several projects just to make a living. An exclusive commitment to any one comic is a luxury at this point.
>>83299925
all of them except for marvel and dc are done like this you fucking imbecile
>>83305681
if that's true, how come Dragonball is still going.
>>83305733
dragonball is not a western comic
>>83305777
yes it is.
>>83299925
one of the many differences between american comic and japanese manga:
Murica:
Characters&Titles- Are forever and will always be there, i.e. Superman, Batman, Spiderman, etc. Even if a storyline ends, they'll be back again.
Japan:
Characters&Titles- Once their serialisation ends, i.e. SamuraiX, you don't hear from them as they fade into obscurity unless you're some hardcore fan who'd pick it up for a re-run now and then
>>83305819
pfft
>>83302481
>modern Marvel
Normie.
>>83302287
Yeah, like Asterix, Tintin...
>>83300955
Wow, there's some bad writing. Big deal. It's not like every manga ever is some pinnacle of art either.
>>83306386
>Asterix
>my frater africanus
>>83305826
Nah man. Other writes picking up old characters and writing something new happens.
The main difference, at least assuming OP is an ignoramus and means DC/Marvel when it comes to Western comics, is that you have many books for different characters, written by different writers but all set in the same universe. So they are not only limited by the history of the character, but also by the editorial that wants a cohesive universe.
>>83299925
Then you got massive filler arcs that just drag things down. And since its one guy making it all, hes boss.
Not every manga goes on for that many volumes and not all american comics are capeshit.
>>83301260
Manga editors also come and go. They work as the intermediators between the creative team and the publisher to make sure the creative team doesn't try to do something the publisher won't accept. As such, the editors can affect the direction of the story from time to time. Allegedly, Fist of the North Star and Death Note are some well known examples of situations where the creative team was done but the magazine insisted that they should continue.
Another thing that can completely change a manga is switching magazines. I don't think Steel Ball Run would've been the same if the switch from WSJ to Ultra Jump didn't happen.
>>83299925
I realize I may rock your world here, but not all American comics are Big Two capes.
>>83299925
There are other comics out there besides Marvel and DC. American Splendor has ended, Cerebus has ended, many independent works have ended, and guess what? Berserk is still going on and so is One Piece.
>It's a country wars thread
>>83299925
>60 volumes
>not a clusterfuck
>>83299979
The popular stuffs run for 60 volumes. Most successful manga are in 20 something or 30 something volumes. A lot of them are around 10 volumes.
<Manga
<Organized
> it's a "/co/ argues with /a/ about the merits of muh western comics and cartoons" episode
Are murrican artists as slave-driven as japanese ones, though
>>83308589
Hell no.
>>83301579
I read Grayson and enjoyed it but the few issue of Batman from thoses last years I tried to read, there were too many characters and context I didn't know about.
>>83302585
Toriyama wanted to stop after the Cell part, the publisher wanted him to continue so he made the Boo part.
And mangaka do plan, even vaguely, where they go. In one volume of Angel Sanctuary, Kaori Yuki wrote that she pitched a 20 volumes long story to her editor and that's what she did.
Mangaka have like prepared milestones in their story that they must hit and write things in between on the fly.
>>83299925
>manga
>ending
They're worse than comics in that regard. You get this great story arc and it ends and then you're stuck with fillers and bland arcs and the MC's power being reset because he got too powerful.
I like manga, too, but let's not forget they got their problems as well.
>>83305347
Manga is a bigger industry than comics by large, even though it's declining since the 90s.
>>83299925
>No clusterfuck of writers or off model art.
nigger please
>>83306757
>filler arcs
It's an anime thing to give time for the manga to advance its story.
>>83299925
>and then just end
That's not happening anymore.
Dragonball Super. Boruto. Even series like Kinnikuman and Hell Teacher Nube are having continuations, either done or approved by the author themself.
While making a continuation of a story to worship the sacred cash cow is less prevalent in Japan than in cape comics, it will continue to grow.
>>83308879
>Hell Teacher Nube
What the fuck, that ended ages ago.
>>83306412
>implying every manga isn't a pinnacle of art and writing achievement
>>83308795
The only case of power reset I can think of is in Bleach. Same for the filler arc stuff. I don't read One piece though, so maybe there's more.
And the number of time I've seen 6 chapters arc in comics where you got 3 chapters of exposition/introduction, 1 chapter of development and 2 chapters of conclusion that left me with the feeling that the story ended before it even started...
>>83308810
Yeah, let's take Hunter X hunter, the manga known for its author giving up on drawing in the middle of it. An author who ended abruptly his biggest manga (Yu yu hakusho) probably because he was fed up with it.
>>83308879
It doesn't prevent the creation of new stories with original universe and characters as opposed to how it works in the big two.
>>83309063
Still these are unusual events while constant shifts in staff, retcons, and reboots are the norm in cape shit.
>>83299925
Maybe the never ending story is part of the appeal
>>83309096
That's the point I was making. This author is more the exception than the rule.
>>83299925
What's the matter, weeb? Too much continuity for ya?
>>83300955
that panel is quite problematic
>>83302585
Oda has said he knows what the ending will be and what One Piece is.
>>83310237
>continuity
>comics
Kek. Most stories are a mess, man. Just because they run for long don't make them good.
>>83299925
Because had every cape ended with it's original run we wouldn't get a lot of their best stories.
No Peace on Earth, No Palmiotti and Gray's Jonah Hex, No Kid who collects Spider-Man, etc.
That the appeal to capes, seeing another writers take on a character and seeing where they can go with them.
On the otherside there are non big two publishers who do put out books with conclusive endings and with the same creative team throughout. There's something for everyone.
>>83301579
Why don't you just try looking up wikis, asking anons for recommendations, or just reading indies, which are basically set up like manga anyway?
Because western comics are a reflection of the times and issues facing the world today but giving it a slight element of fantasy to see how above average characters would face and confront issues the world and our country face today. That's why their stories never end and constantly reboot because they're getting revamped to keep up with the times.
Manga is about telling a specific story, with specific characters. it's not about a reflection of culture or issues and that's primarily why they've been bottlenecked in terms of creativity but you still have the average retard who sings the praises because NUDITY AND GORE.
>>83299925
They do. Just not Big 2 cape comics.
>>83312899
Wasn't Akira a huge cultural criticism though? I realize that it's old AF, but wouldn't call all manga culturally tone-deaf.
>>83301041
Because people on /co/ will cherry-pick the tiny handful of comic lines where that is the case so they can craft a narrative around being persecuted.
>>83312960
>>83312899
Manga/anime and really all art is a reflection of culture. Some things are just more subtle than others. The ultra violence "gore" of the 80s/early 90s was a reflection of the economic hardships in japan, the desire to see the bad world destroyed. A common motif is that before something violent and gorey happens it someone they must be shown to be completly corrupt and sickly, reflecting the state of the culture.
Nudity of course is always a reflection of how the culture see's sex, how it see's women, etc.
Comics are just more blatant. Rather than subtly reference politics they just outright talk about it. Proving that japanese media is for adults that can understand depth and comics are for children who need to have everything spoon-fed to them. :D
>>83299963
>Somebody /thread me
I was going to.
FUCK YOU
>>83299925
>Run for 24 to 60 volumes and then just end.
>what is Naruto
>what is Bleach
>>83314152
Naruto has around 70 volumes. Than it goes to a new story about his son.
Bleach is at around 70 also.
All manga eventually ends.
>>83314316
>a new story about his son
which is literally more of the same
>>83314152
Not even the worst offenders desu. Golgo has 130 something volumes and has been ongoing since the late 60's.
>>83314358
*180 volumes
>>83311825
Excuse me wtf is this logic and shit doing here.
I think the big two do need to churn out cheap, uncolored, pocket collections for supermarkets, drugstores, perhaps even clothing stores like Sears and Kohls Things parents can give their children to shut them up for two hours.
The problem here is that the companies also need to make material that these kids will want. And kids don't want kiddie comics. They know when they're being pandered too, and hate it.
>>83314358
>>83314389
You can tell who only gets their manga off of the sites that pander to the western fans. There are about a dozen titles that have been running for decades with no end in sight, they're just not heavily talked about, scanned, etc, in the west for just these reasons.
I tried to get several times into comic books but the amount of alternate universes and authors for each superhero is just demoralizes me. That industry is a big clusterfuck I don't want to bother with.
>>83311825
>>83299963
Basically, a mix of these two.
It's not really a problem with indies because each character/group of characters is probably only going to have 1 writer across its entire run, unless it gets popular enough for special issues by other writers, but they'll be like a bonus.
With capes, people like seeing them put into different situations. However, because these characters are seen as company property rather than within the realms of a writer, you get a LOT of bad decisions coming down from editorial.
Add onto that the fact that cape comics right now are so short that you only get anywhere satisfying with the story after sinking far too much money, you can see why they're in a shitty place. Especially when writers have to insert stuff from whatever event is going on that week into the comic.
Really, Marvel and DC should just get writers to write graphic novel length pieces from the outset; those would likely sell a LOT more and lead to MUCH more coherent and satisfying storytelling.
My idea was that Marvel or DC could start a rebooted universe with a solid 10 year plan where the continuity was wiped clean and the releases were just 4-5 different graphic novels a year, with writers and artists in control of direction , but then I realised that that's basically the Ultimate universe and we all saw how that ended up.
>>83314542
What the fuck did you even try? Getting into most characters via key runs or well known arcs is really easy.
>>83308795
You should read more manga than just shounen.
Man reading this thread made me realize comics aren't fun to read anymore, it's just shit and more shit, retcons and more retcons, with alternative universes and stupid ideas being shoved out there with no clear ending.
Time to kick the chair I guess
>>83314542
Then don't read superhero comics you fucking monkey.
>>83314512
Isn't that one police manga the longest running manga?
>>83299925
>Spider-Manga
>>83314838
Bat-Manga is better.
>>83314684
>Spot the guy who only reads Big 2 comics
>>83305242
They were ALL psy-powered mutants. We saw analogues of Captain America (Crazy gunman), Scarlet Witch (Woman with golden eyes), Black Cat (Woman of misfortune), Doctor Strange (Homeless man with knife), Ghost Rider (Murderous stuntman), Ben Reilly (i.e. the second Spider-man, who gets his powers from a blood transfusion) and so on.
Every last one of them died. Komori's universe is not a happy place.
>>83299925
>Why can't western comics be organized and released like manga?
You mean churned out in sweatshop-like conditions? With rote, cookie cutter story models and characterization? No thanks.
And the only Manga worth the bother aren't produced in Japan's "organized" fashion, either.
>>83315207
Basically, this; the best stuff tends not to be the stuff produced by big companies, it's the stuff that can stand alone.
Not that big companies don't put out good material, but it's less of a concern for them than bottom line profits, which they can make more handily by treating their artists like shit (in Japan) or by turning everything into a massive controversy (how the big 2 do it in America).
>>83315207
>implying american writing is any better
Also quit reading only shounen and read something different like the Akira manga or something, i don't know.
>>83302344
Confirmed for never actually having read One Piece. The goal for the main character is to become the King of Pirates. The One Piece is just a symbol of having achieved it, but not the actual goal itself. The manga has progressively explained through the narrative what it means to be "the King of Pirates," which is essentially to be someone strong enough to move freely through the world without fear of the world government or other pirates to intervene. Unlike many shonen titles, "becoming strong" isn't just an ever-moving goalpost ala DBZ where a stronger person comes out of nowhere. Though the end game is still a mystery, Oda established a long time ago what elements it will involve. Blackbeard was introduced as a major antagonist all the way back at Jaya (and mentioned even earlier on Drum Island), Dragon was introduced in Loguetown, Shanks was introduced chapter 1, Akainu was introduced the latest but the marines as an entity were introduced chapter 2.
One Piece is long as hell, but arguing that it's just a meandering endless story that isn't headed anywhere in particular shows you have the wrong impression of it.
>>83314471
Aside from the newsstand market being a lost cause, most modern comic art is just poorly suited to reductions that small, DC and Marvel would just releasing shittier Showcase/Essential compilations that would just take up space.
>>83315524
>Unlike many shonen titles, "becoming strong" isn't just an ever-moving goalpost ala DBZ where a stronger person comes out of nowhere.
While I love One Piece and agree with most of your post this sentence isn't really true. Ever since they hit the Grand Line the big bad of a given arc has been the biggest, highest ranking person mentioned, then five volumes later we're introduced to another tier of previously unmentioned villains who can wipe the floor with the last arcs villain.
>>83315524
>The goal for the main character is to become the King of Pirates
Luffy absolutely at no point engages in piracy; in fact most of the time he's an anti-pirate privateer going around do-gooding. The fact that he's hunted by a government means nothing, in the Age of Piracy privateers were often considered enemies by opposing nations.
He's trying to become King of the Robbers by preventing crimes.
It's a stupid, juvenile comic for children and underdeveloped manchildren.
>>83299925
>All Western comics are capes comics
Just fuck right off, burgerfat.
>>83315864
I meant in the sense that there's not a pattern like DBZ where the main character is the strongest, but then an alien flies in THEY"RE the strongest, repeat repeat.
In OP, Luffy is constantly traveling from a more peaceful geopolitical area towards a more dangerous one. He might not know every villain ahead of time but it makes sense that it progresses this way and the characters themselves are aware they're not the strongest.
>>83316014
'Pirate' means anything from robber to political anarchist in the setting. Luffy and his crew are distinctly of the political variety and go around helping or dismantling governments depending on personal whims. Oda is salient of this, he made Luffy's dad a political revolutionary and Luffy's major act in the first half was to declare war on the world government.
>>83316014
>Luffy absolutely at no point engages in piracy
That's part of the gag, he wants to be King of the Pirates without actually understanding what that entails. He idolizes Shanks (who actually was a pirate) as someone who wasn't beholden to anyone and decides that's what he wants to be. He wants to be a pirate because it's cool and rebellious but is too nice to actually rob people.
>>83314557
I feel like the problem with Ultimate is that as it was also used for ideas that "Break the mold" more so then just normal 616 changes, people got too out of hand with that in Ultimatum.
>then end
The current ongoing mangas right now in Shonen Jump include Bleach and One Piece
>>83315522
Shounen is basically Capeshit, in this argument. It's popular and basically goes on forever. Every time you say "Read Akira instead of that American shit" someone else can say something like "Read Sandman instead of that nip garbage."
>ITT all comics are Big Two capes and all manga are shounen
>>83309096
It's an incomparable example. It's quite well known that Togashi is one of THOSE guys who's just coasting by on his success. Because he's successful enough to get away with this crap.
>>83315207
Stop reading shounen, anon. It is shit
Stop reading superhero comics, stupid
>>83299925
>forcing shitty writers to create new characters
yeah... I wonder why.
>>83308502
Bleach.
>>83299925
Not sure. if I'd like that. I like to keep it relatively short. I personally can't get into mangas, because they're just so damn long and never-changing.
Western comicbook companies generally like to keep it fresh, and trust me if that kind of longer format made a ton of money, of course they would keep the creative team and the story going.
And the other side of that coin would be, what if we get stuck with a writer, story or artist you couldn't stand? 60 volumes of something, you personally dislike, but just keeps going. That'd be awful.
Comicbook companies are constantly re-marketing stuff that could do better, and the more popular, money-making titles stay the same.
>>83299925
Here is fun thought experiment.
You create a brand called "Boy Comics" or say "BC" for short.
You cultivate a brand of particularly action centered comics.
>Boys on a globe trotting adventure to find something highly sought after.
>Kids at a school that has some kind of strange gimmick.
>Guys who hunt evil ghosts.
>Sports.
Artists and writers are often the same people and they make 45 pages of black and white comic a month.
After 4 months those pages are then bundled into a small book that fits on a DVD shelf and is sold for $12.
3 books a year.
This mind you is slower production than most Japanese mangaka.
What are the problems with this?
Right off the bat you have faggots complaining about the very name "Boy Comics" because they see it as divisive even should there exist a publisher called say "Girl Beat" or "GB" that publishes one comic after another about a young brunette self-insert surrounded by several pretty young men who fight for her affection.
Next you have the lack of liberal agenda.
Faggoty writers like to use comics as a venue just to complain about the world with almost nothing of allegory to speak of.
Further into content there would be generally attractive women and that would
>Piss off liberals
and in most instances characters that kill people on a fairly regular basis
>Pissing off liberals
Unlike Japan which is 98.5% Japanese with about .6% chinese and .4% Korean if I'm remembering correctly you can't get away with just publishing comics by the largest ethnic background.
You need to hire more diverse creators, not because they are good (while some may be), but because you'll look like a racist otherwise.
Perhaps even publish comics by women as long as their story meets the criteria.
The biggest hurdle honestly is conforming enough with western ideals.
You have shy away from sexuality unless it is homosexuality because then you're "progressive" and even then you can't take that very far or make jokes about it.
Manga is as much a clusterfuck as the Big 2. Just because the same writer is doing the entire series doesn't mean there aren't gonna be retcons and other crap.
>>83321441
What the fuck are you talking about.
>C&H panel where man says it sounds like you're creating scenarios in which you're persecuted.jpg
>>83322952
>Manga is as much a clusterfuck as the Big 2
>>83315207
>With rote, cookie cutter story models and characterization? No thanks.
To be fair that's comics world wide.
The only thing western comics have over manga is the fact it's in colour. Aside from that it's all the same trite and a pick your poison kind of deal just like TV shows, movies, cartopms , anime etc.
>>83322952
Eh that only applies to Ito manga because he can't into proper endings.
Also we'll never find out how that guy ended up under the house.
>>83315864
That's absolutely not true, villains in One Piece are often mentioned or shown long before they're ever encountered. There are some that do pop up seemingly out of nowhere, yes, but the most recent major villain to be encountered was Donquixote Doflamingo and he was introduced over 11 years ago. The 'new big bad', Kaidou, has been name-dropped a couple times as one of the Four Emperors.
Really the only person I can think of to come completely 'out of nowhere' in the Grand Line was Enel, and that was because Skypiea is essentially a place of myth before the Straw Hats show up
That's bullshit since Enel would the wipe the floor with Moria, Lucci, and Hody, and most of villains we've seen were shown or alluded to in very early chapters.
>>83323807
First of all someone already addressed this with >>83316145
Second Enel is a bad comparison since he pretty much exists outside of the pirating story line
>>83315524
>Unlike many shonen titles, "becoming strong" isn't just an ever-moving goalpost ala DBZ where a stronger person comes out of nowhere.
It's almost like its a theme or something. Also One Piece and many other shounen do the same.
I just want something along the lines of Shonen Jump, where a fat magazine with shitty paper is released every month with a few chapters from popular ongoings with previews for upcoming or less popular comics to bait you into buying trades.
>>83314345
Naruto is gargantuan shit at least it doesn't get retold in different perspective every 2 months or become grittier every other arc.
>>83301056
Japan is a very misogynistic society and since they hate change the chances of them becoming as politically correct as the west is next to none.
>>83300955
Why is it always the same panels being spammed over and over again?
>>83308810
HunterXHunter is far from the norm retard. In america stuff like that happens all the time.
>>83303575
There are even at least two people who know what happens, namely his editor and a dying child.
>>83304689
That's another issue, though. American comics are dominated by capeshit. Japanese comics seem to have pretty much every genre under the sun, but it's really hard to find much non-capeshit in American comics unless you're looking through niche stuff. It didn't used to be like this, though, half a century ago.
You know it got me thinking, the American comic book scene is so stagnant, fans rejoice at any new IP that tries something different other than cape shit and always make a big deal about it, even when the writing is awful and the art is nothing to write home about. Pic very much related.
>>83324666
Yeah, if the Ameican comic industry should take anything from the manga industry it should be selling magazines featuring their comics. Granted you'd no longer be able to determine if a story is worth continuing based on sales.
>>83325039
>but it's really hard to find much non-capeshit in American comics
What in God's name is your definition of hard?
>>83325212
When he says they're hard to find he means "they're not making movies based on them that I can discuss on the comics board".
>>83316014
>It's a stupid, juvenile comic for children and underdeveloped manchildren.
It actually IS aimed in the market demographic it's for for young kids.
Like, 14-15 at the oldest.
The fact that it's read by more then just that, especially over in the US, is kind of not the writer's intention and is more of a side benefit.
>>83300955
See, I don't have a problem with them tackling things like this. I do have a problem with it being done by hack writers. I look at something like this and I'm inclined to believe that they wrote it to sound as stupid as possible because they don't really believe it themselves.
>>83325212
Please point me to all the current running sports comics please
that is the pet peeve you have? The one I have is the different artist every other issue and writer. Then there is barely any consistency in either the numbering or the story like one of the superman issue I read the other day. It was about superman losing his powers and cut his hair short and only have a piece of his cape then after a few issue it completely changed to another thing else. Like what the fuck is that and what am I suppose to with the new story. Weird as fuck with comics.
>There will never be a comic that flows as well as Bleach
They've been stuck fighting ghost Nazis for 3 years but every chapter takes like 5 minutes to read so it's okay.
>>83325039
American cape comics is equivalent to Japan's higschool themes
>>83325344
You said non-cape though, nothing about sports.
>>83316145
>He might not know every villain ahead of time but it makes sense that it progresses this way and the characters themselves are aware they're not the strongest
That just means it follows the Dragonball pattern but actually bothers to explain it rather then just take it for granted.
As someone who's gotten into and is enjoying One Piece plenty these days I will say it absolutely follows the formulae he's talking about, it just actually spends a bit of time explaining why.
>>83325346
Both of these things are what get me. You can't just pick up and be reading a comic, you have to go back and find out which books have the information you need to understand what's going on. I dropped My Hero Academia 9 months ago and then picked it up again when the anime started airing and even though I didn't recognize a lot of the characters or understand some of the past events they referenced I could still get into it. There was a logical consistency to the narrative that allowed that.
>>83325364
Not really, that school theme can turn into anything else while capeshit is always there.
I mean, look at the difference between Angel Beats and Death Note both start with school themes but are pretty different.
>>83325470
If you wanna get technical, Green Lantern and The Question are both capeshit, but they're very different.
>>83325512
Eh, not really.
I mean there are differences but they aren't exactly worlds apart. In the end theymboth follow the same capeshit path of beating a bad guy.
>>83325618
You could make that generalization about all of fiction though.
>>83325648
Can't say it for Death Note and angel beats. I could go into vidya too.
>>83315207
>>83315499
>You mean churned out in sweatshop-like conditions? With rote, cookie cutter story models and characterization? No thanks.
Yes, entirely unlike most capeshit.
>>83325357
Kubo's dream was to be a fashion designer.
He can't write a story to save his ass, but damn he draw women quite good.
>>83325780
You can though. And Then There Were None and The Maltese Falcon both end with a character solving a mystery, but they're both tow different types of stories. You could make the same generalization for Splinter Cell and Metal Gear, but those are both different (one is more of an action-espionage type thing, the other is a techno-thriller).
I don't know what you're smoking when you try to compartmentalize fiction, but I want some. That, or you're just being willfully obtuse. Regardless, I can see nothing good coming from this thread, so I'm out.
>>83300459
>Works for the japanese
Weird. It's almost like Japan is an entirely different culture than North America, with different socials norms and expectations from audiences about entertainment mediums!
>>83325364
But capeshit is a genre and a high school theme is a theme.
>>83325357
Last I heard the bad guy killed god. Has anything happened since then?
>>83326044
Anon, that's crazy talk. Countries on opposite sides of the world could never do anything differently.
>>83326092
We'll the bad guy is now god, ichigo has two zangetsu and the old mam we saw was actually his Quincy powers, Zaraki has a bankai, ichigo can now perfectly controls all of his powers, Toshiro grew up.
And a whole lot more.
>>83326200
Excuse the typos, I'm posting from a tablet
>>83326200
Is based Chad as irrelevant as ever?
>>83314542
Christ, who are you trying to read for? Kang The Conqueror?
>>83325780
I haven't read Angel Beats so I can't comment on that but you clearly haven't read The Question so whatever. Death Note is very much about the beating of a bad guy, just with a "novel" twist that the protagonist is a bad guy
>>83326327
Absolutely. And the world's about to end so of course Rukia and Renji are serving as comic relief.
>>83326469
>Death Note is very much about the beating of a bad guy
His death was already guaranteed from the moment he used the death note anon. That an he killed the first good guy and succeeded with his plans until a few years later.
I'd like manga a lot more if it was read back-asswords. Like seriously is I a cultural thing that makes japanese people read right to left? Just feels awkward.
>>83326327
Yep, but guess who's back up for "Kurosaki-kun".
>>83325910
I would seriously wear some of his designs.
>Those headphones will never exist
Suffering.
>>83326675
They did flipped versions a while back but then you'd get shit like signs and other letters in the backgrounds reversed.
>>83326642
>His death was already guaranteed from the moment he used the death note anon.
Well, actually, his death was just guaranteed, period. The dark joke underlying everything that happens in DN is that everyone dies and everyone goes to the same place no matter what. That's why Ryuk finds humans interesting: they think anything they do matters in the long run.
>>83326642
The Question often doesn't have a bad guy to beat. Especially in the latter half of O'Neils run the story is often more about Sage's internal struggle than any bad guy.
My point was that if you render down The Question to "beating a bad guy" then Death Note renders down to that as well, in fact it does so better because there is a clear external antagonist at almost all points.
I haven't really followed that much of comics but I have watched mostly animated shows. I read both the GotG 2008 run by Dan Abnett and Agent Venom. The thing is I follow it fine because of the basic knowledge of the characters and reading the wiki. But what is kind of annoying is when they tie-in to events.
One issue is during the Spider-island event that was in Agent Venom, they were going to fight the Spider-queen and Captain America appeared and backed up Venom. Then suddenly the next issue it was over, no fights or conclusion nothing.
>>83326675
About a third of the world reads that way, anon, between the Chinese, Muslims, and the random other languages that are written right to left.
>>83326811
Hulk's got a burning heart.
>>83326771
Well that's true but I mean his untimely death. Ryuk confirms that I'm the beginning when he said he would write his name in the note.
Also it just occurred to me that Ryuk probably knew Light would die at that time before he picked up the Note.
A lot of manga series also abruptly end so what
>>83326969
Just like comics that don't sell
>>83326969
All I can think of is Ito.
God speed space hobo...
>>83320538
The number of manga that make it as far as Bleach are actually exceedingly rare. You don't see a lot of them in the US because they only bring over the popular shit.
Besides, Bleach and Naruto only hit 72. If you really wanted something that would blow the fuck out of Anon's shit, you'd've gone Hajime no Ippo (113 volumes) or JoJo (116).
Even then, it's still rare. Fist of the North Star was insanely popular and only hit 27 volumes (not counting sequels and spinoffs.) Sailor Moon changed the entire magical girl genre, but Takeuchi only made 18 volumes. Dragonball and Dragonball Z together were only 42 volumes. Saint Seiya/Knights of the Zodiac was 28.
Pulling out examples like Bleach and Naruto is like going "Of course comics featuring non-superheroes don't die out quickly! Look at Archie!"
>>83320851
>And the other side of that coin would be, what if we get stuck with a writer, story or artist you couldn't stand? 60 volumes of something, you personally dislike, but just keeps going. That'd be awful.
Why would you read something you dislike?
And there's a lot of good manga that doesn't go on forever. Planet is 4 volumes, Paradise Kiss is 5, Ichi the killer is 10, The world is mine is 14, Homunculus is 15 Hourou musuko is 15. And that's many different types of story with a beginning, an ending and characters and story developments.
>>83320851
Most manga I've read has actually been rather short, and unafraid of challenging the status quo in some way. Whereas in standard capeshit western comics, not much ever really changes.
I'm finding you have to go indie or European to get a reading experience similar to that of manga. I rather enjoyed Blacksad, to be honest.
Vertigo also works, but they do tend to get a little obtuse with reading orders at times with some of the side specials.
>>83324912
That's true but the manga industry is so big and try to reach every readers so they are much more diverse. I mean, being homosexual is frown upon in Japan but there's still more manga about homosexual characters (and not only to pander to readers of the opposite sex) than comics.
>>83325357
Bleach peak was the beginning of the second arc. That was a long time ago. Things looked promising then, like it could be even better than the first one. And after that it quickly became boring. Read something else.
>>83328051
>and unafraid of challenging the status quo in some way.
What does that mean if it's a self contained short manga?
Do you mean like, subvert tropes and stuff? Because I know plenty that do
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