How can people even try to diss the Raimi Spidey movies?
Just saw Civil War and literally everything from the swinging motions to the poses to the webs sounds to the fighting style etc. has changed remarkably little in the 16 years and 5 movies since Riami's Spider-Man.
I get that no adaptation can please everybody but as far as visually adapting a super heroe's style to live action I can't name anyone that nailed it better on the first try.
>>83079007
>I get that no adaptation can please everybody but as far as visually adapting a super heroe's style to live action I can't name anyone that nailed it better on the first try.
Why Raimi is a fucking amazing director. He sharpened his teeth on the Evil Dead movies and brought his own unique style to the Spider-Man universe. That's what happens when you have directors who actually give a shit about telling the best story they can. Spider-Man 3 was the perfect example of a movie being ruined by executive meddling
Raimi's Spider-Man got the movements and visual style of Spider-Man completely wrong, it's uber generic, he swings like Tarzan not a spider, he crawls like someone mountain climbing not a spider, he fights and throws punches like some drunken brawler, it's all wrong
>>83079170
Not as wiry as Ditko I'll give you that. Looks like pure Romita to me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGeOjK0I7JY
>>83079007
>This thread again
Sony should know that all the shills in the world won't make MCU SM flop so they can reboot again. Just stop.
>>83079856
This was amazing at the time but now it looks kind of like a video game.
>>83080157
It won't flop but that doesn't mean it's going to be good either, not by a longshot, they already botched his origins
I don't like Raimi Spidey by the way either
It's weird. I love the movies but I still think that Tobey was a pretty crap Peter/Spidey. Everyone else was fine but he was the weak point.
>>83080260
>they already botched his origins
How so?
>we're probably never going to get an adult Spidey Movie, unless Tom Holland looks older by Infinity War
>>83079856
>FLAGS FLAGS FLAGS
Jokes aside Spidey vs Ock on the train was awesome and is still awesome as fuck
>>83080369
I think one of the reasons why they made him so young is to keep Holland around for a long time. They're already establishing Spidey as the next face of the MCU once RDJ is done.
>>83080352
Stark origin, mainly
I'd bitch about things like hot aunt May but honestly, I don't want Aunt May to be a focal point of the movie anyway so I'd be a bit of a hypocrite to pretend I cared (although, they most likely will)
>>83080260
>Botched origins
Oh because we really needed to see Ben getting shot and the spider bite again? Lets fucking move on and get going already
I got into cape movies rather late. I can't really re-watch old Spiderman movies without seeing the cheesiness and some of the bad CG, can someone tell me why Raimi is often brought up as a genius for those films? Not sarcastically, like, is he some "father of current Marvel" or was he just the best superhero director at the time, did he do shit correctly? Just trying to get understand the appreciation for why people still love those films when I'm unable to re-watch them because they feel outdated. I thought the Spiderman scenes in Civil War were great, so I'd like to know.
>>83080679
You must be 18 to post here.
>>83080679
This>>83080729
But to answer youre question, you got to remember that the Raimi Spider Man franchise was the start of the big superhero movie boom. All this blockbuster superhero action shit was new back then
>>83080679
Underage b&
>>83080729
not him, but because someone doesn't appreciate older things doesn't mean they're underage
The train fight is still one of the best, if not the best, superhero fight.
>>83080729
>Being interested in MCU after they already started their second phase means you're underage
The fuck kind of logic is that.
>>83080586
I agree about the Stark thing, fucking RDJew in action. Aunt May not being the age of an antique or her and Ben being way older than Mary and Richard is refreshing, although she does look a bit too good for a woman in her position.
>>83080764
Blade and X-men came first though
>>83079007
I think Raimi's Spider-Man felt a bit too floaty when swinging (the end swing of SM2 is the worst case of this, he's just floating and holding webs). The ASM series improved the swinging physics greatly by showing tugs.
But yes, most of the groundwork laid by the Raimi films. You can tell his swinging style changed from the cartoons pre and post-Raimi too.
>>83080791
>not him
sure thing champ
>>83080609
No, because it made Tony fucking Stark an integral part of Spider-Man's mythos which is stupid as fuck
>>83080679
Nostalgia mainly
>>83080679
The direction is stylish, the characters are great and the tone is perfect. Tone is huge for these movies and Raimi is pretty much a master. Defoe can be hamming it up as Gobby or Parker and MJ will have some cornball romance scene and in the next scene Uncle Ben will die and it will literally give me tears. No Iron Man quipping to the camera during an alien invasion when millions are dying or Batman scowling for an entire 2 hour run time, every scene is handled with the amount of emotion it deserves.
>>83080586
All Stark gave him was a costume.
Its not like he gave him his powers or web shooters
>>83080729
>yfw someone who was 4 years old when Spiderman came out is 18 now
>>83080807
They didn't make $800 million ww.
>>83079007
OP, are you kidding? Spider-Man actually hops around, displays his agility and uses his powers creatively in the newer films. He used his webs to take down Giant-Man in Civil War, wrapped the Lizard in a cocoon in the first reboot and did a shit ton of awesome stuff in the second movie (his action scenes were the best part of that film).
>>83080679
Guess I should clarify that I watched Spiderman when it came out in theaters, but to me, they were just action films back then. I saw shit like Iron Man and Thor in theaters but didn't "pay attention" to them until Ant-Man. To me, they were just movies. I thought Ant-Man was awesome and got kind of excited to see if he was going to be in future movies. Then I started getting into the MCU and hyped for future releases whereas before, I was just kind of, "Oh, another superhero movie?".
I went to re-watch some older things to see if I liked them more and Spiderman still feels outdated when compared to some of the more recent hero films, at least to me.
I still feel apathetic towards X-Men movies though.
>>83080807
Blade doenst really count, and though X Men was a year before, Spider Man arguably was the big hit that led to the trend
>>83080834
Look Im willing to admit the Stark shit gets old, but integral? All he did was give him a better suit. Everything that was Peter was still there
>>83079170
TASM had better movements than CW. In CW SM shoots the web, and then he immediatly starts levitating towards the target like being pulled like a magnet. He doesnt tense the web to create innertia or anything like that.
Frankly the web physics from CW is literally the worst of the 3 versions.
>How can people even try to diss Raimi's Spider-Man?
First of all, no one says "diss" anymore, it's not 1998, dude, cut that shit out.
Second of all, I don't think I've ever seen anyone, on or off /co/ who shit on Raimi's Spider-Man. Isn't SM2 universally accepted to be one of the greatest cape shits ever?
>>83084181
There are some who say the Amazing Spider-man movies (yes inducing the sequel) are better than any of the Raimi films because "Muh quips" and "Lel there isn't dancing in the ASM movies xd"
>>83080369
I'm so fucking salty that Andrew didn't go to that fucking meeting. Damn it Garfield.
>>83080834
Anon, I don't think the word 'integral' means what you think it means.
>>83084181
>Isn't SM2 universally accepted to be one of the greatest cape shits ever?
No, it has a nostalgia cult of people for whom it was their introduction to capeshit but that's about it. Lots of people can't stand the overly campy tone of those movies and consider them cheese with awful acting that never truly captures....anything really about who Spider-Man is.
>>83084254
Case in point, this guy ^
>>83084254
>The Amazing Spider-Man movies are better
To each their own and I'm no Spideyfag, but from what I hear ASM1 is very true to the comic.
>dancing
People generally ignore SM3's existence, and it being a lump of shit doesn't bring down the first two.
>muh quips
Good Christ almighty, I'm so tired of /co/ bitching about quips...
>>83080834
Tony is hardy integral to Spidey's backstory. He's still bitten by a spider same as always, his uncle dies same as always, and he built his own webshooters and made his own web formula. If Stark had made the formula, died in place of Uncle Ben, said the "with great power" line, or the spider was revealed to have been from Stark Industries or something dumb you'd have a point, but that's not the case. He just made Spidey's costume. And it's not like it's the first time Spidey didn't make his own suit. The Ultimate version only had his costume because the wrestling federation he briefly worked for gave it to him, and any time something happened to it he had to have MJ fix it.
>>83080369
Chances are they're going keep making those films for a long time so we'll get one eventually. That's if they don't fuck things up in the future.
>>83079007
They were good for it's time when super heroes went into a great depression throughout the 90's, but once that faded away and super hero films being good is now the norm, they aged like milk in the acting and scripting level.
If you view these movies as cheesy movies of it's era you'll have fun but the bar has been raised and these movies just don't read them anymore.
>>83079170
>He swings like Tarzan, not a spider
Nigga spiders don't swing in the first place, they dangle and shit. How would they swing? They don't even have the body mass to pull that shit off.
>>83084475
Campy is something that I have no problem with simply because that was the style of film making at the time. Like, look at Godzilla '98 compared to Godzilla '14, that campy wacky shit would not fly in this day and age, but that's what was popular at the time.
Hell, there were still remnants of that campy, silly style of film making in Iron Man 1, it's to be expected, audiences change and film making changes with them.
Tl;dr, looking down on a 90's-00's movie because it's campy is like bitching about a movie from the 40's because it's in black and white.
>>83079007
>I will attribute SFX to the director
I hate you people. I like Raimi, and I even like his Spider-Man films, but god damn are you people full of shit.
>>83080679
Nostalgia. Raimi's a decent enough director, but his action sequences were never really good. I give him props for his innovative shots and a good script, but he was helped tremendously by a very talented cast (I still think Tobey was miscast and phoned it in).
>>83084475
>Nostalgia Cult
Well, I don't consider Spider-man 2 to be the best Superhero film, I do consider it better than any of the Webb films hands down. The ASM films failed to have anything exciting and memorable in them. Even the music is forgettable (and I love James Horner but the score for ASM1 was ok at best and doesn't compare to Danny Elfman) Spider-man 2 was memorable as fuck and it was creative as fuck. Scenes like the Doctor Octopus hospital scene are cool to see in a superhero flick. I don't just blindly "hate" the ASM films because of nostalgia. I wanted to love the ASM films but sadly the first one was ok and two was terrible.
https://youtu.be/RWJQR6SNMF8
>>83084496
ASM 1 wasn't really faithful to the comics.
Things such as:
>Peter's dad making a super spider for Oscorp that only worked for Parker blood
>Doctor Conners not having a family
>Uncle Ben not saying "With great power comes great responsibility".
Weren't faithful. I mentioned the dancing and the quip things because that's what Anons usually use to defend the Webb films. I don't particularly care for them.
>>83084604
Please don't pretend modern movies aren't just blockbuster shit.
I love cape movies as much as anyone here but I won't pretend they are above to shit like Transformers.
>>83084960
>Uncle Ben not saying "With great power comes great responsibility"
How does someone fuck up this bad?
>>83085012
>absolutely all big budget movies are on the same level
Nigga, come on.
MAYBE I'm misinterpreting what you mean so please elaborate.
>>83079170
>he swings like Tarzan not a spider
>>83085012
nigga, everything is above shit like transformers
i wouldn't consider any of them iconic cinematic masterpieces or anything, but just about every mcu movie surpasses transformers at the very least
>>83084906
>I hate you people. I like Raimi, and I even like his Spider-Man films, but god damn are you people full of shit.
For most directors I would agree. People blame Michael Bay for the Transformers design, but he probably just approves whatever the overpaid concept artists whip up with photoshop and maybe tells them small things like "make it spikier" or "more flames". But Raimi cut his teeth on very practical movies with a small crew, so I can easily see him being very involved in all the steps of production.
>>83079170
>>83079856
https://youtu.be/F--wGjZNDGI
Holy fuck you're right
>>83079007
It'd be pretty hard to deny Spider-Man and Spider-Man 2 as the closest any comic book movie has come to its original source material, thematically, and in my opinion the first movie is one of the greatest action movies period. Right up there with Raiders, Jurassic Park, and Aliens.
The upside down kiss alone is, in my opinion, one of the greatest scenes in popular motional picture history.
The second movie, while I like it less than Spider-Man 1, adheres to the Stan Lee formula of focusing on the person behind the mask and not the mask itself. It's the perfect follow-up to the first movie and expands upon the initial film's premise, which is what a good sequel should always do.
Spider-Man 3 is an abomination. It is a living testament as to why studios should never put profits in front of creativity. Sam Raimi was obviously getting dizzy from working on the same thing for like ten years, he was pressured into using characters he didn't want to use, and the film suffered as a result. What I want to know is, did Sam sabotage the movie himself or did he actually believe he was making the best movie possible based on what he got? He's made conflicting statements regarding this, but the general vibe I get is that he thinks the movie is trash.
>>83079007
Rami's Spider-mans made me feel like spider-man could exist in the real world, as a real being, actually doing everything he does.
ASM felt too showy and didn't do much for me
Civil War, spider-man felt fake, he looked like a cartoon, felt like he wasn't even talking to the other characters, he was fun, but didn't feel real at all.
Rami's spider-man is still very important even today. Wish Sony never rebooted and just recasted.
>>83079170
>he swings like Tarzan not a spider
So you want him to just hung there with a web hanging out of his ass?
>>83084960
>ASM 1 wasn't really faithful to the comics.
>>Uncle Ben not saying "With great power comes great responsibility".
This is actually very faithful to AF #15.
>>83079007
No, the first two Raimi movies were good. Raimi included a ton of really great classic moments from the comics in there and only wanted to use source material from the Lee/Dikto run as inspiration, with Venom forced upon him.
McGuire was not the perfect Peter Parker, but that requires a very good actor and an even better script since Peter Parker in high school is a very diffierent person then Peter Parker in collage and Peter Parker as a fully-grown adult (something many comics fans are not even really aware of), and finding a script that can compact all of that into a two to three hour film is nearly impossible.
McGuire was pretty good regardless and is a pretty decent actor a lot of the time.
>>83080586
I see nothing wrong with Hot May.
>>83080586
Stark gave him a costume. nothing more you fucking baby.
>>83085610
The swinging sequence is the best shit out of the movie, literally amazing
>>83084960
>Uncle Ben not saying "With great power comes great responsibility".
Actually, Uncle Ben never said that.
The narrator (that is, Stan Lee) at the end of the first comic said it to the audience, and Uncle Ben had only two lines flat.
The first person to ever say the phrase aloud was actually Spider-Man himself.
>>83085791
I think people exaggerate with Spiderman 3. By all means, it's the worst of the trilogy, the plot is kinda weak, but i don't think Raimi dropped the ball THAT hard, the movie is still entertaining, stylish and rarely as frustrating as the ASMs. Really, the only thing i can openly say i *hate* about the movie is how MJ's development was lost during the last act and how pointless the Sandman retcon was. Yes, i can kinda accept the rushed Venom. His role in the movie was just to fuck up Peter, and it's not like the character had to return being crappy in a sequel anyway.
I still have a feeling the Ben retcon was Raimi's way to wrap up an improvised trilogy, since he's the one that decided to retire from the series after 3. The hate Peter felt for (who he believed to be) Ben's murdered was replaced with the acceptance and forgiveness for Sandman, it's a REALLY awkward way to make him get over his loss, the frustration that drove him for 3 movies. Although to be fair that begs the question of with what attitude he'd keep being Spidey, but that's overthinking it
>>83085050
because Uncle Ben didn't say it. Peter summed it up is all. What >>83085897 said
Fact is Toby was a piss poor Spider-Man. I'm sorry that hurts your nostalgia, but he was. He had cringy as fuck dialogue and yeah he didn't quip like in the comics - AS HE IS SUPPOSED TO DO. I get it, you're all tired of Marvel quips but Spider-Man is the one guy who actually does that shit.
And no, I'm not saying AS was awesome or better.
>>83084960
>>83085050
Actually about the catch phrase...>>83071584
>>83086206
You know what I think the biggest lost of ASM is? The goddamn title.
Marvel could make a series of comics-faithful titles just using the various adjectives found in front of Spider-Man books, but Sony fucked up the ASM brand title.
>The Amazing Spider-Man
>The Spectacular Spider-Man
>The Web of Spider-Man
>Peter Parker is Spider-Man
And so on.
>>83086373
After Amazing Spider-Man I wanted Sony to name the sequels after titles of other Spider-Man books.
After how bad ASM2 was I'm glad they didn't waste any more names on their movies, though.
You can always spot the fanboy pleb filth because in literally any objective terms you can gauge a film's quality the Raimi films blow the ASM garbage out of the water but you always get the handful of entirely subjective NOT MUH PETER posters as if Toby's Peter wasn't perfect for those films.
>>83086206
>Fact is Toby was a piss poor Spider-Man. I'm sorry that hurts your nostalgia, but he was. He had cringy as fuck dialogue
Opinion
>and yeah he didn't quip like in the comics - AS HE IS SUPPOSED TO DO
But he did
>Nice dress, did your husband make it?
>Here's your change!
>It's you who's out Gobby, out of your mind
>Of course you know me... i'm your friendly neighborhood Spiderman!
And that's those that i can think of off the top of my head. Granted, they're not all that much, but wanna know why? It's simply because the fights still needed to be emotional. If there's stakes going on there's no good reason to stop the action/drama and quip for a couple of minutes straight. Because that's what the ASM movies did, ASM2 opens with Rhino wrecking cars and shit with his truck and Spiderman instead of stopping him sits tight and cracks jokes. You can clearly and with no doubt see multiple cars exploding and getting thrown away, but Spiderman doesn't lift a finger until Dillon is in danger, because the script said "HE OUTTA QUIP"
Sure, you can argue "but in the comics Spiderman quips to fight tension and stuff!", and you'd be right, Raimi simply felt they didn't fit his scenes and script. End of story, no character assassination happened
Sorry for the rant
>>83080834
>Tony fucking Stark an integral part of Spider-Man's mythos
Because he gave him a suit? Holy shit you're a dumbfuck. He was Spider-Man for six months before even meeting Stark.
>>83086206
>he didn't quip like in the comics
I'm not a huge fan of Maguire's Spidey post-SM1, but this never bothered me. Rami stated several times that his direction was influenced by Ditko Spidey, who wasn't the motormouth quipster that Peter is today.
>>83085897
>>83086166
>>83086210
Fair enough, I actually forgot that Uncle Ben didn't say that but ASM still wasn't very faithful to the comics. There were parts of the movie that were faithful to aspects of the character but the story itself and the changes it made aren't faithful.
>inb4 someone says that it doesn't have to be faithful to be good
True but to claim that ASM is super faithful to the comics isn't very true. The only things they got right were:
>He lives in Queens
>He has webshooters
>He makes jokes (However, In the ASM1 he makes jokes non stop for one scene and then never do it again. In ASM2 he makes jokes while people die like when he keeps quipping at rhino when he's driving and he just keeps crashing into cars)
If they really wanted to be faithful, he'd be a nerd with a crush on and on Betty Brant and he's always low on cash. Instead, he's a super cool hipster skater who goes out with the hottest and smartest girl in his whole school.
Most people who "diss" on Raimi's Spider Man are /tv/ refugees.
And they may right. Raimi's SM hace flaws if you analyze it as a movie.
But true /co/ patricians still praise it because it is the best superhero comicbook movie ever done. And I dont mean "best comicbook movie ever" as an adaption (because even like that it has flaws). Everybody loves because watching it felt like reading a comic book in a big screen, not as a visual 1:1 representation but as all the feelings it transmits. It's something others capes movies never done (and maybe any kind of art).
You can practically take 1000 screencaps to SM1 and without big edit work you can storytime it in /co/ and everybody would understand it and it would feel like just another storyarc from the 90's
Post yfw Venture Bros' Brown Widow is the most faithful adaptation of Spider-Man
>>83087176
Oh, I wasn't arguing that ASM was faithful. I was just correcting a common misunderstanding stemming from the Raimi films.
Kinda like how Kirk never actually said "Beam me up Scotty" and how Vader never actually said "Luke, I am your father".
>>83087176
>super cool hipster skater
How was ASM Pete a hipster?
>>83087559
I don't know, ask the hipster websites that have guides on how to dress like him.
>>83085347
Michael Bay has more control over his films than any of the MCU directors. Say what you will about his films (which I personally think are quite good ) but he's truly an auteur unlike the MCU where it's purely corporate made and solely for monetary gain .
Any attempt to discuss Raimis Spiderman is pointless on /co/ because you'll get bombarded with NOT MUH SPIDEY as if that has anything to do with the quality of the film . SM1 and SM2 are miles above any MCU film ever made , and are still amongst the top tier of capeshit alongside Ang Lee Hulk, TDK, X2, Hellboy and Blade 2.
>>83087707
I don't think you know what a hipster is.
>>83088533
SM2 was terrible. first time in my life I wanted my money back after seeing a movie.
>>83079856
pure concentrated dogshit
>>83088581
So you're telling me that a studio exec didn't say "Okay, let's make him dressed in the hipster fashion to make him more modern and he'll only use film cameras that are so popular with that tend'?
He might not act like a hipster, sure, but there's no doubt that they tried their best to make him look like one.
>>83085610
C A P E K I N O
A
P
E
K
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>>83079007
>How can people even try to diss the Raimi Spidey movies?
Because they're overrated shit and aren't to true to the characters except Aunt May and JJJ.
Don't understand why they are held in such high regard, seriously nostalgia is one hell of a drug.
>>83079856
His web isn't even attaching to anything. He is swinging on clouds.
Raimi's films had a more campy tone and gave us a great Peter Parker who's constantly tormented by wanting a normal life vs doing the right thing. Spider-Man 2 is still the greatest superhero film ever made but they get Spidey wrong in so many ways.
Webb's films were held back by Sony meddling and ruining whatever potential the series had to be truly amazing, but what we get are still highly entertaining films that give us some of the best Spidey action on screen to date. Not to mention the romance was actually believable.
I liked all the Spider-Man films and am excited to see more of Tom Holland playing the webhead. I wish I could post in these kinds of threads a lot more, but they always devolve into /tv/ vs /co/ shitposting. Hopefully that goes down significantly when Spider-Man Homecoming is released but it'll probably get worse instead.
>>83080321
He and Mary Jane are terrible. Especially MJ.
The entire trilogy is carried by performances from the supporting cast.
>>83088923
The movies were loved by critics and were MASSIVE financial successes that shattered box office records and helped kick off this wave of cape movies we're in.
I'm not really sure "nostalgia is one hell of a drug" is gonna cover it
>>83080882
tfw someone once was a boy but now they are a man
>>83084181
>Isn't SM2 universally accepted to be one of the greatest cape shits ever?
Maybe on /tv/ before they abandoned it for BvS
>>83084960
>Uncle Ben not saying "With great power comes great responsibility".
As everyone else already pointed out, Ben never says that at any point.
ASM Uncle Ben's speech is closer to his speech in Ultimate Spider-Man.
Not that you would know of course.
>>83089167
>The movies were loved by critics
>MASSIVE financial successes
So were other overrated movies TFA, DKR, Avatar etc
Plus it's a Spiderman movie, one of the most popular comic heroes, made during a time when comic movies were shit. So these decent to meh movies got way overhyped.
>"nostalgia is one hell of a drug" is gonna cover it
Covers it just fine. The movies have aged like milk in the sun and they wasn't all that good when they first released to begin with.
>>83089167
then? lack of good shit to compare it to
now? nostalgia goggles
>>83079007
IMPRESSIVE
>>83089449
>Not that you would know of course
Yeah totally, because I didn't read literally every issue of Ultimate Spider-man. But you're right, he doesn't say it in Ultimate Universe but in ASM they don't even day the phrase at all (if you don't count the deleted scene were they actually do say it). Peter doesn't even seem to care that Uncle Ben said that. He's just like "Ok, I'm going to kill his killer" then he just becomes a superhero because he couldn't find the killer.
>>83084475
> Lots of people can't stand the overly campy tone of those movies
Why do folks these days hate camp?
Everytime I hear criticisms of the Raimi Spider-Man movies and they bash the campiness they never explain why camp is a bad thing to have.
I just wish camp wasn't look down upon. It can lead to some fun movies like pic related.
>>83086614
>It's you who's out Gobby, out of your mind
That remains one of the best lines in any cape cinema.
