>It's got Batman and Superman! You're insane if you think it won't easily cross a billion!
Where were you when BvS turned out to be so bad it might buckle the entire studio?
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/warner-bros-mulls-releasing-films-881265
Honestly, ever since that report of how they were "worried at how focus groups responded to the film" I started thinking WB was probably slowly losing their shit more and more over time
>>81513564Doug and Rob Walkerwere right when they said how fucking pathetic it is that a GODDAMN BATMAN VS SUPERMAN MOVIE is something that underperforms and is a movie that even people who liked it wouldn't go out and see it more than once.
Batman dick riding finally gets WB what they deserve.
Not like they'll learn anything from it though.
>>81513652
Batman is pretty much the only reason it's making any money at all
>>81513652
>Batman dick riding finally gets WB what they deserve.
Actually, if anything, they're going to dickride Batman harder
>>81513564
You know what the worst part is is that we're probably not going to get Shazam. Shazam was the movie we really needed, because if that's good then they'd finally get the message to stop this maudlin shit.
>>81513564
Article literally says WB has no plans to change anything but directors will fix BVS's shortcoming.
>Allowing Snyder to direct 2 flops
WB did this too themselves
>>81513564
>Snyder took a shot at the Marvel Universe in an interview with The Daily Beast. While addressing Steven Spielberg’s comments that “there will be a time when the superhero movie goes the way of the Western,” the filmmaker said Marvel heroes are a dime a dozen.
>“I feel like he’s right. But I feel like Batman and Superman are transcendent of superhero movies in a way, because they’re Batman and Superman,” Snyder said while promoting Doritos’ final Super Bowl filmmaking contest. “They’re not just, like, the flavor of the week Ant-Man — not to be mean, but whatever it is. What is the next Blank-Man?”
And then Ant-Man got better reviews that Batman v Superman. And a better audience reaction. And got better openings in several countries. And kept topping for several weeks while BvS declined. And got a sequel greenlit despite being a "flavor of the week" and not a "trascendent".
>Read article
>There's actually no evidence that anything is changing
>WB maintains nothing is changing
>"Well it would make sense for them to do something different"
Ok.
>>81513771
speaking of antman
>>>/toy/5588789
But seriously though, it's a big disappointment to see the biggest audience-magnet title go flop in criticism and for the future of the series.
>>81513564
You mean Pan and Jupiter Ascending bombing, BvS underperforming.
>>81513620
I think there's a strong case to be made about how Marvel has slowly poisoned the well, if you will, and conditioned people to only want action comedies from capeshit.
But when you REALLY think about it, is it so strange?
WB is the same studio that *honestly* thought Pan and Jupiter Ascending would be hits. It's the same studio that hired the writer of Pan to make Wonder Woman's screenplay.
I mean. Come on. These are not smart people, even by executive standards.
>>81513760
>hiring Snyder after 300
>and Watchmen
>and Sucker Punch
>and Legend of the Guardians
He's clearly got pictures of the TW/WB execs fucking little kids or something
>>81513771
I dare you to find anything memorable about Ant-man. It's the usual hollywood pap and disappears from your memory as soon you see it. It's a shallow film for a film genre content with being shallow.
>>81513904
Well technically Pan could've had enough to attract nostalgia and prequelfags to it.
>>81513817
WB "not changing" has lost them hundreds of millions recently.
And not because if BvS (that's just the most recent high-budget failure), but because the studio is run by archaic dinosaur people for whom creativity and ingenuity vanished thirty years ago at least.
They are so obsessed with doing the "safe" film that "has been proven to work in the past" by them that they'd rather close their fucking eyes then admit anything could ever be wrong and turn out a barely financially solvent product instead of changing the way they do things.
The problem is it's dragging DC down with them.
>>81513905
Watchmen Extended Cut was good though.
>>81513925
Man say what you will about BvS, but that movie is just fucking weird. It's like the weirdest blockbuster I've ever seen in my life, but at least it's stuck with me in some meaningful way.
>>81513897
>I think there's a strong case to be made about how Marvel has slowly poisoned the well, if you will, and conditioned people to only want action comedies from capeshit.
Then why did Fox's X-Men series do well? And god knows they had the worst fucking advertising for it too. This isn't the fault of anyone else but WB for releasing a turd and hoping people wouldn't notice
>>81513925
That's easy. If not Hank fucking Pym, the giant ass tank he brought with him.
That and thebathroom scene.
>>81513925
>ANTS
>The shrinking scenes
>Based Pym
>The single dad and his relationship with his daughter
>The fact that the ex-wife's new husband isn't treated as an asshole and ends up being Scott's friend
>Tons of jokes
>Everything about Luis
>The Falcon
>Yellowjacket
>Thomas the Tank Engine
>>81513936
>They are so obsessed with doing the "safe" film that "has been proven to work in the past" by them that they'd rather close their fucking eyes then admit anything could ever be wrong and turn out a barely financially solvent product instead of changing the way they do things.
The weird thing is that Marvel has proven that superheroes that aren't grim and dark work, yet WB refuses to take any other route even though grim and dark clearly isn't connecting with audiences.
>>81513950
I just watched the Ultimate Cut last night, it's actually unreal in how much better it is than the release cut.
I am honestly anticipating a bit of a reappraisal for BvS when the Director's Cut comes out. That Communion scene they put out made me do a total 180 on Eisenberg's Luthor alone.
>>81513564
> known for its commitment to filmmaker- and star-driven projects, but sources see signs of a change in culture, though the studio denies there is one. Several executives and agents say Warners seems to be greenlighting fewer homegrown movies as it focuses on silos that echo those that generate so many hits for Disney (Marvel, Lucasfilm, Pixar and Disney Animation). In Warners' case, the silos are DC Comics, Lego and a planned franchise spun off from theHarry Potterseries. Tsujihara has touted that trio as the linchpin of his film strategy, and now, much like Disney, has eschewed all but a few original live-action films. Overall, sources say there is an understanding Warners is aiming to release fewer homegrown films than the industry-leading 21 it did in 2015. The studio still will make some movies from "family" directors including Affleck, Clint Eastwood, Christopher Nolan and Todd Phillips. But the emphasis is elsewhere. One insider says the studio will remain a dominant distributor, but "when you get to almost a movie every other weekend or a period where there's a movie three weeks in a row, that's too much."
Literally exact opposite mesage
>>81513979
Juan Punch Man for Avengers when?
>>81513897
This. Disney is just selling us commercials for their next movie and everyone think that's how Superheroes movies are supposed to be.
>>81514017
Like Daredevil Affleck's movie was when the extended cut was released. Heck they even had a nice Kingpin and a good version of Bullseye.
>>81513925
>ANTS
>Baskin Robbins not playing
>Juan Punch Man
>ex-wife having bro tier husband
>Waspgirl beating the shit outta Scott
>Old wise Michael Douglas
>Token movie romance done completely out of sight
>Size changing shenanigans
>>81514008
Grim and Dark is not the safe bet, light and campy is the safe bet.
>>81513925
>The spanish guy story-telling
>The fight inside the briefcase
>The final fight in a Thomas The Tank Engine toy
AND MANY MORE!
>>81514008
Apparently the film section of WB isn't run by an individual. It's run by a committee.
That's automatically a terrible idea.
>>81513897
>I think there's a strong case to be made about how Marvel has slowly poisoned the well
Explain X-Men franchise and both Dark Knight movies released during the MCU?
>>81513925
The shrinking scenes were pretty amazing. I haven't seen ingenuity for shrinking used that well since Honey I Shrunk the Kids
Also it's about two fathers
>>81513979
>Everything about Luis
This guy is like Scott's Falcon or War machine, right? the sidekicks should have their own squad for Inifinity wars.
>>81513897
Can't wait for Suicide Squad and Apocalypse to come out already so you muh quip Snyder faggots get BTFO forever.
Don't blame Marvel for BvS being abysmal.
>>81514044
One of the worst scenes in BvS is watching Wonder Woman watch commercials for WB's superhero lineup.
>>81513897
>I think there's a strong case to be made about how Marvel has slowly poisoned the well, if you will, and conditioned people to only want action comedies from capeshit.
Sure, if you ignore X-men, the netflix stuff, the Nolan movies, the fact that even the most blatant comedy still had dramatic moments, and the most praised MCU movie being the most "serious one" and anything else that contradicts your viewpoint, you have a pretty strong case.
The problem isn't that Snyder's movies were "serious", the problem is you people keep confusing "serious" for dour and maudlin. It's BORING and a slog to get through. Even arthouse and prestige pictures remember that you need some levity to balance out all that drama, because levity is what gives drama weight and that they lack of it robs drama of its strength.
Maybe if you assholes could think about acting like 14 year olds and screaming about dance offs you'd realize that it's not a zero sum game.
>>81514081
Exactly, which is why it's weird that people are saying that WB are taking the safe route when they're clearly not.
So at what point is WB going to abandon super heroes and try to make a Mad Max cinematic universe?
>>81513732
>Shazam, Dark Universe and Blue and Gold are the most likely movies to get cut
Why even live, /co/?
>>81514100
>Apocalypse
Pretty safe bet
>Suicide Squad
Antiheroes featuring the Joker and Batman. We'll see how that one does.
>>81513925
Have you ever seen a single hero movie (hell movie in general) where the new husband of a character's wife who is against the hero becomes a bro and is welcome with the main hero being with the family and isn't treated like an asshole?
Cause I haven't
>>81514130
Cyborg is the most likely film to get cut, WB jumped he gun anouncing his movie.
>>81513771
>And then Ant-Man got better reviews that Batman v Superman. And a better audience reaction. And got better openings in several countries. And kept topping for several weeks while BvS declined. And got a sequel greenlit despite being a "flavor of the week" and not a "trascendent".
Snyder isn't any humble. At least Ant-man writers/directors put some effort on doing a enjoyable movie instead of relying on batman and superman brand.
>>81514130
>Shazam
I guess Mark Millar's "Superior" movie would probably get released first int he future.
>>81514126
They're gonna need George to make it authentic.
>>81514159
You can say a lot of things about BvS, but the idea that no one put in any effort is lunacy.
>>81513955
Even Deadpool which critics claimed to be The Gamechanger for Superhero movie didn't really changed the game but this movie did.
I think it's weird and pretty ironic that Marvel film's are "safe" and "formula" but WB's one size fits all answer of "Put more Batman in it!" is totally A-Okay.
Green Lantern sucks? Don't worry! Green Lantern 2 will be darker and edgier!
Superman Returns underperformed? Let's make the reboot more like Batman and angst it up!
Man of Steel got a lot of criticism? That's okay we'll put the REAL Batman in the next one!
Maybe when you fags are sitting through Batman v Cyborg: Booyah Begins it'll finally sink in.
Sure batman may be a dark character, but superman is not he is powered by the yellow sun for Christ sakes. Superman is the human embodiment of goodness and he cannot be portrayed as an emo faggot.
>>81514190
Oh I think Deadpool is going to be a gamechanger but not in a good way
>>81514190
Deadpool just changed minds on R-rated movies for the future, but probably for capemovies only.
BVS changed the game for DC's future film series.
>>81513963
Because X-Men is a 16 year old franchise at this point that managed to turn the tide after two incredibly awful movies and to a degree won the goodwill back from the fans. There's also an entire generation that grew up watching the movies, with its own familiar tone, so it has got its own separate identity that sets it apart from the Marvel movies without inviting comparisons. The X-men also feel less like superhero flick in general because it's basically fighting extinction in nearly every movie and there's a lot of built continuity, when they aren't retconning it.
Snyder says a lot of dumb shit
>Superheroes talking in costume for more than five lines is silly
>Superman is genetically predisposed to want to wear a cape
>A THOR MOVIE? IN THE CURRENT YEAR?
>The Galactic Empire caused a lot of destruction, then so can Superman.
>Batman of manslaughter.
>Nolan's Batman kills too and I have the youtube video that proves it.
>The popular notion that Batman doesn't kill comes from Tim Burton's movies.
>Batman totally killes people in The Dark Knight Returns
>There's no place for Jimmy Olsen in the DCEU, let's turn him into a CIA agent and shoot him in the head. Incidentally, book Black General, Asian Major and Indian Daily Planet assistant for my entire trilogy. Squeeze in a Not-Snowden cameo too.
>I don't even know what that thing with the Flash was all about, it just looked cool.
>B-but the Avengers destroyed their city too...
>The true Superman fans will like my movie, everyone else is too stupid to get them.
>>81513897
>I think there's a strong case to be made about how Marvel has slowly poisoned the well, if you will, and conditioned people to only want action comedies from capeshit.
stop lying, People just love the dark knight movies
>>81514110
No, you're confused; they're taking the safe bet for ten years ago, back when their first Batman film since Schumacher made any money.
The issue is that WB is trying to replicate (by committee no less) what made these films successful without actually having a creative bone in their bodies or an understanding of why they were successful at all, and so are assigning people that they THINK understand the material to make up the gaps in their own knowledge and lack of creativity.
They are trying to make a good film by doing standbys for their superhero films; "Batman sells right? More Batman, put him in the title! Dark sells right? Make it dark and serious! Snyder reads comics, right? Make him in charge! Affleck reads comics, right? Make him Batman!"
No one at their movies division knows how to handle their comic book properties and they're just sort of flailing around trying to do what worked for everyone else before them as they see it.
>>81513925
The visuals were way more inventive than anything Snyder has done, for all the shit we hear about his visuals. It makes the best use of super-powers of pretty much any cape movies, and isn't that the fucking point?
>>81514255
First two were alright. The third tried to be way too big for its own good and because they don't even reference the Joker for the sake of Harvey's death, it feels a bit underwhelming, not to mention some plot holes.
>>81514110
>Exactly, which is why it's weird that people are saying that WB are taking the safe route when they're clearly not.
They're taking the safe route in the sense that they are relying on the character and tone that has been the only consistently successful live-action franchise they have, that being Batman.
>>81514094
Marvel was only starting to get its sequel bait hype machine into gear during the Nolan films, TDKR was always going to get people due to the massive success of the previous film. And after Avengers there was so much good will that people even forgave Thor 2 for being an absolute piece of shit with minimal backlash.
>>81514225
>what is NolanBats
Which once again leads us to the conclusion "the well wasn't poisoned, BvS was just a fucking turd"
>>81514102
And it's even not that bad of a scene, just extremely out of place.
>>81514130
[spoilers]I could actually see Shazam getting put in The Flash series. So far they'd had the balls to just be as idealistic as fuck and do the absolute corniest things without blinking. I mean they're going to put in the JSA later on, it's just a hop and a skip away from Captain Marvel.[/spoiler]
>>81514104
The nolan movie are grandfathered in.
>>81514339
>Marvel was only starting to get its sequel bait hype machine into gear during the Nolan films
Oh so it's a "specific time" now. At first it was the MCU as a whole but now it was just "the ones after The Avengers". Give it a fucking rest.
Audiences didn't like Green Lantern or ASM2 either. What's your excuse for those
>>81514326
If they had rights to do a Daredevil movie, they'd make the costume darker than red, slightly longer horns and his radar sense to mimic the Arkham games' detective mode visually.
>>81513564
I'm upset. There were a lot of good parts to this film. Hell I could say I greatly enjoyed the first half of this movie, but it just fails to deliver on what it tries to build.
It fails to show Superman as this god-like hero
It fails to set-up Lex's hate properly.
Tbh the problem with this movie is Superman. It feels likethere were two opposing forces writing the film, likely Terrio and Goyer. One person wanted to write a movie about the glory of Superman, and the other wanted to make a movie about how dangerous and unrealistic superman would be. I don't know how this film got made at all. Theyfucking kill superman. what made anyone think this was a good idea?
Really what was needed was a second superman movie before this showing him rebuilding metropolis, working on his public image and then foiling one of Luthor's plans. It's all just too much too fast and nothing gets done. Ben Affleck is a phenomenal Batman though and I liked how they highlighted how haunted and paranoid the character is. Just wish he wasn't pancaking people with the batmobile.
5/10
>>81514225
>this entire post of mental gymnastics
>>81514258
>No one at their movies division knows how to handle their comic book properties and they're just sort of flailing around trying to do what worked for everyone else before them as they see it.
I kind of feel bad for Geoff Johns. Odds are people ignore everything he has to say.
I think we need to ask a serious question here and question, put aside Avengers or even Iron Man 3, is BvS even going to beat TDK?
>>81514399
>Oh so it's a "specific time" now.
Hence the words "slowly" in the sentence.
>>81513771
> the next Blankman
>>81513564
>Where were you when BvS turned out to be so bad it might buckle the entire studio?
>After an abysmal run of expensive underperformers including Jupiter Ascending, Pan and In the Heart of the Sea
>>81514411
>It fails to show Superman as this god-like hero
I'd argue that it does show Superman as a god-like hero. Far too much for its own good.
>>81514110
>Hey the Dark Knight was a huge success, maybe we should do that for Superman too
the movies even fucking called "Man of Steel"
>>81514436
Fuck no. No chance in hell at the rate the numbers are dropping. It's gonna take a miracle for it to break a billion. They're probably just gonna make back their costs
>>81514443
The idea that you still think the idea that audiences are being "poisoned" and not that "they just make likable movies" astounds me. And more importantly, way to completely ignore my other points like the success of X-films and the rejection of Green Lantern ASM2
>>81513905
Only Sucker Punch was truly bad
>>81514418OPM live-action when?
>>81514454
>yfw Blankman has a higher critical score than BvS
>>81514462
Straw that broke the camel's back anon
>>81514480
Watchmen sucked. I don't care about the definitive cut, I'm talking about the one in theaters. Legend of the Guardians also sucked.
300 isn't very good, despite being visually great
So when does this nigga get part of the blame/praise for whatever happens with DC and WB?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Roven
>Charles Roven (born August 2, 1949) is an American film producer, president and co-founder of Atlas Entertainment.
>Batman Begins (2005)
>The Dark Knight (2008)
>The Dark Knight Rises (2012)
>Man of Steel (2013)
>Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016)
>Suicide Squad (2016)[1]
>Wonder Woman (2017)[2]
Also his wife's name wasDawn Steel.
>>81514480
300 and his Dawn of the Dead were really bad too faggot
>>81513897
You fags who keep blaming Marvelfans for the failure of this film are just pathetic. And you can bitch and moan about that particular audience enjoying muh quips all you want but it just doesn't hold. If audiences really want action comedies for their superhero films then can you explain the success of the X-Men franchise? Or why the Netflix Daredevil series is being praised as one of the best parts of the MCU? Or why Winter Solider is being praised as the best MCU movie when it's a political thriller and not an action comedy? The muh quips argument doesn't really hold because of those examples. The real reason BvS was so poorly received is Zack Snyder. He just can't direct a good movie. The movie was boring and the director came off as ametuerish and pretentious. It's bad if I'm nodding off in the middle of a fucking superhero movie. The movie has potential and if it were reworked it might come out better. The R rated version may fix a lot of the issues with it but honestly I'm not gonna hold my breath.
>>81514497
The back might have been broken even without the straw
>>81514143
Daddy's home that will ferrel movie
>>81514512
Part of the reason Snyder gets so much blame in comparison to anyone else is because he can't keep his mouth shut. He's constantly braying about how smart his ideas are and how he doesn't get why everyone likes everything else better.
I don't think I've ever read an interview with the guy that didn't have at least one line that left me thinking "Wow, what a dumb ass".
Even if they don't kick him out WB needs to learn how to gag the guy in public.
>>81513710
Except it was by dick riding Batman and trying to make Superman down to Earth and dark that they fucked themselves over.
People love Batman.
People fucking hate Batman rip offs.
>>81513925
Michael Douglas as Hank Pym was in it's entirely, better than any scene, any character interaction, any piece of dialogue of the entirety of the BvS.
>>81514468
>the movies even fucking called "Man of Steel"
Maybe if it was called "Man of Tomorrow" it wouldn't be so cold and grey.
>>81514525
>movie when it's a political thriller and not an action comedy
>A movie where a mathematical code can determine if a kid will be a threat in the future
>Not a comedy
You laugh at the movie, not with it.
>>81514348
Nolan's Batman started before MCU was a thing, was concluded, and then people moved on, to Marvel that is in the business of continuing sequel hype. And they've been so good at it that they've slowly managed to get people (and critics) associate capes with their cookiecutter mold of film making.
>>81514608
Right which is why I think they will dickride Batman harder because "hey people love Batman"
Heck they're doing it already. MoS underperformed so instead of getting MoS2 we had to get Batman in his movie and then Supes dies so now we get Batman as the lynchpin of the universe. I expect that Affleck directed solo Batman film announcment any day now
>>81514657
What about the X-Men movies?
So, Avengers/Justice League crossover film when?
>>81514656
But the Math was pretty simple anon.
If kid's aryan = A-ok.
Any other ethnicity = Shoot it on the head.
They ARE super nazis after all.
>>81514597
I'm not saying Snyder doesn't invite and deserve all the shit he gets, it's just weird that this guy who's produced almost all the DC movies since Begins (and all the succesful ones notably) is never ever mentionned anywhere.
Why is this guy so under the radar?
>>81514697
He already covered by saying "muh nostalgia". Basically, everyone but WB are too blame for BvS doing poorly because WB are too pure to fuck up
>>81514656
Whoever made this WEBM should actually watch some political thrillers from the 70's to see just how fucking dumb they could get in the action department.
>>81513963
and then comes Deadpool with the comedic comedy making more money than any x-men film
>>81514722
But anon teenagers dont watch movies past 2003
>>81513897
>I think there's a strong case to be made about how Marvel has slowly poisoned the well, if you will, and conditioned people to only want action comedies from capeshit.
>Blaming Marvel for Synder's fuck-up
I feel legitimately sorry for Ben and Cavell. They both tried so hard.
>>81514700
BvS was their ASM2. They're going to pretend to go on with their lofty shared universe before decided it's better to let Marvel do a film so they get the boost then ride off of it like Sony is planning to do.
Getting to see this after Infinity War will be great.
>>81514597
People also like blaming Goyer, because he also says dumb crap in interviews
>>81514715
Because most people have never heard of him, he isn't visible and he never takes credit for any ideas
>Now, with DC movies dated through 2020, the outcome has led to a flurry of rumors that the studio will make adjustments — maybe add a new producer? — rather than allow BvS director Zack Snyder to proceed with the two-part Justice League.
>Snyder
>two-part Justice League
>two-part
Behold, everything wrong with Snyder in one line. Several of Marvel's movies have sucked, but they spent YEARS building up a shared universe and, with The Avengers, released a pretty well-paced team-up movie.
Snyder, whose sense of pacing has been criticized since before MoS (who else saw Sucker Punch?), is expected to make not one but TWO superhero team-up movies. Given the nothing's-fucking-happening nonsense of BvS, I can only imagine how bad Justice League parts 1 and 2 would be...
>>81513771
Remember that scene in Ant-Man where the building is about to implode on itself and Luis is about to escape but then he remembers the guard he knocked out and goes back at the risk of his own life and drags him out?
Yeah, fucking Luis had a hero moment to save a guy he didn't have to at all. That's the kind of inspiration we should be getting from Superman and yet it was found in Ant-Man
>Meanwhile at a company with a successful cinematic universe
http://www.wired.com/2016/02/star-wars-gives-disney-its-best-quarter-in-company-history/
>>81514730
I think it was less to do that it was a comedy and more to do that this was a movie about Deadpool, a very popular character who casuals kinda sorta know.
>>81514657
Shifting the blame is for losers, Zack. Make a good movie, then we'll talk about why people don't want to see it.
>>81514722
I watched Three Days of the Condor, no stupid action scene there.
>>81514156
I think they'll keep the Cyborg movie since there's been a push for more minority lead roll heroes as of late.
If any movies going to cut, it's going to be Aquaman.
>>81514656
>A movie where a mathematical code can determine if a kid will be a threat in the future
You're naive as fuck if you don't think profiling is a real thing anon.
>>81514715
Because nobody really knows who he is. Do you think normies recognize Goyer or Terio?
They'll recognize Snyder though. Especially if you remind them he did 300
>>81514783
Not to mention, if Marvel made it so only comedies sell to the public, why did Green Lantern tank
>>81514715
>Why is this guy so under the radar?
Because he's a producer and they tend to avoid the spotlight unless they actively seek it our or are eccentric or controversial enough to have it thrust on them. And given the pedigree you sited for that guy, it's pretty clear that he's capable of putting money up for good movies and stinkers, so there's no real meat there.
Whereas Snyder? He's one self insert cameo away from being known as the white Shyamalan given his track record.
Didn't Batman V Superman: Dawn Of A Franchise prove that you can't just rely on a brand and must have competent filmmakers making your films?
Great Caesar's Ghost! They made a Batman and Superman film that didn't blow up the box office when those. Sure it set some records for a weak month like March, but it doesn't seem to have legs. A Batman and Superman film should have been an out of the park home run, not double and limp to second base.
They handed the keys to their major brand over to an idiot. that didn't understand them or just outright despised them. Even DC in the 80s didn't let Alan Moore tarnish their newly acquired Charlton characters. Meanwhile, Warners in the 2010s gave Snyder full run on their two biggest names and drove them into the mire.
Yet that doesn't mean other directors with their own non-brand products aren't a good idea.
Just don't hire a fucking idiot like Snyder to screw up two of your biggest icons, especially if you wanna build an entire ongoing franchise based on it.
They clearly had no idea what the heroes of DC Comics ever stood for.
For some of the mistakes and let downs of Marvel films have had, they've never totally mismanaged their superheroes the way this idiot has completely tore down Batman and Superman.
>>81514479
Green Lantern was a shitty movie, period. And AS2 was a result of the previous two Spidey movies not clicking with the audiences.
>But sources with firsthand knowledge of the situation say the studio has no such plans.
nice clickbait tho
watch this thread get 500+ posts
>>81514807
I know it's a real thing but it's not based on math and certainly can't determine if someone is a threat 40 years from now.
>>81514804
But Aquaman counts as a minority movie
>>81514830
But they're action-comedies released during the MCU so the audiences should have immediately taken to them right?
>>81514837
Silly anon, minorities are black.
>>81514836
It doesn't even have to work. HYDRA just has to believe it does.
>>81514772
>Several of Marvel's movies have sucked
I really only disliked Thor 2 and IM2 honestly. AoU was just disappointing but I can rewatch it
>>81514797
The entire fight with the postman is schlock.
>>81514836
You can if you are a super nazi who believes only Aryan babies are worth a shit.
>>81514772
It's so weird how the guy can make 150 minute movies where he manages to spend too much/not enough time on all the wrong things. It doesn't fail, ever.
>>81513897
The Daredevil series is dark as fuck and people love it.
BvS just isn't very good.
>>81514102
And the main complaint about it has been
>Why couldn't they just do it in the after credits, Marvel style, like you're suppose to?
>>81514635
no way, the opening scene in metropolis has more tension than all the marvel movies put together
>>81514775
>Remember that scene in Ant-Man where the building is about to implode on itself and Luis is about to escape but then he remembers the guard he knocked out and goes back at the risk of his own life and drags him out?
I rewatched Ant-Man just today and that weirded me out. He had JUST Juan Punched out 2 guys in another room, and he doesn't bother even thinking about saving them from the implosion or whatever it was.
I understand these guys were just trying to shoot Scott, but still, just as much of security guards doing their job as the other guy.
>>81514894
But that would have been PERFECT to have in the after-credits?
The one consistent complaint among everyone who's seen this is how the Justice League teasers are randomly in the middle of the film and how losing them changes nothing about it. Why would you not have that after the end or just someplace that is not the middle of the movie
>>81514894
Because doing it after the credits means it doesn't break the narrative, genius. It's not like there's any other option, really
>>81514772
But Marvel has been mostly mediocre to good.
Snyder is a hack that thinks having a lot of slow motion = cinematic masterpiece
This all could have been avoided with one proper casting decision way back in 2011.
If only the current biggest movie star were playing Superman and not some B-list Villain this all could have been avoided.
>>81514894
Well yeah. If you're gonna put a blatant ad for the next movie in then put it after the end credits.
>>81514882
>schlock.
buzzword
The solution isn't to stop letting filmmakers have the call when creating films.
The solution is not to hire fucking idiots like Zack Snyder who can't even comprehend characters a child can identify like Superman and Batman.
At the very least hire someone who gives a shit about these characters from DC. Have someone as a creative director of these films.
Then again, with idiots like DiDio with his New52 fiasco and even idiots like Goyer formerly working at DC, I am not sure some of the people at DC are all that knowledgeable about DC characters.
Hell. A friend was saying how he heard about some e-mail that got sent out to DC from higher ups that their drop in sales was very concerning and that Warners needed DC to really get on top of things. Even the damn comics were already a problem for Warners. This movie underperforming probably makes things even more dire at those shiny new Cali DC offices.
>>81514932
I think because those other guys were more in the open so it's more likely someone could have seen them and woken them up and the guy he knocked out earlier was hidden behind the panels so nobody would have seen him.
>>81514782
Well since they gain so much money, they could make more cartoons, eh?
>>81514926
Douglas performance in Ant-Man is more entertaining than that scene. And he didn't even did that much, all things considered.
>>81514843
Wait, GL was suppose to be an action comedy?
>>81514964
>IF YOU SMELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL WHAT THE SUPES IS COOKIN
>>81514894
They're already stealing the very concept of a modern cinematic universe they might as well go whole hog and steal the after credits thing too. It's better then what we got.
>>81514810
It's nothing to do with normies, people on /co/ know who Goyer and Terrio are and they're mentionned all the time, people here even have anecdotes about them like when Blade tried to strangle Goyer on set.
Roven never is even mentionned and he's probably the guy who's had the most influence on DC movies in the last decade.
Even his wikipedia article is empty as fuck.
>>81514926
Not reall. The scene was a rehash of the climax of Man of Steel. We knew that there would be death and devestation and tons of people would die and buildings would be destroyed, but that Bruce would be fine.
>>81514963
None of that belongs in the shit tier except maybe Iron Man 2 and the first season of AoS
>>81514963
>guardian of the galaxy god tier
I mean I liked the movie but come on, at least take a step down
>>81514963
IM3 is at least at Thor level
>>81514985
Better, it was supposed to be an Iron Man knockoff.
>>81514926
How does it have more tension if we know what happens? It was interesting to see it from another angle yes, but tension? What? are we supposed to think Bruce is gonna die?
>>81514956
>>81514942
The JL cameos directly feed into building the idea that Lex could figure out Batman and Superman's identities so much in advance. They ran a bit long, I'll admit, but that's the only real problem with them.
>>81514775
>some human thief side character in Ant-Man is on the same level as Superman saving people in a Superman movie
It's called perspective.
Get some.
Superman is supposed to be the fucking ideal of saving people. That's the whole fucking point of Superman. If he isn't saving people, then why the fuck are you making a Superman movie?
Superman isn't a man.
He's a platonic ideal of a superhuman that will never stop trying to save everyone.
He's more powerful than all the Avengers combined.
You can't even point to the Avengers and complain they didn't save enough people too.
He's better than the Avengers. He should be.
>>81514190
>Even Deadpool which critics claimed to be The Gamechanger for Superhero movie didn't really changed the game but this movie did.
How? making WB do fewer movies
>>81514883
But said Super Nazis were going to bomb Berlin.
>>81514815
I'm not saying compared to Snyder, who's a director (they naturally get more spotlight), I'm saying compared to people like Feige, Rothman, Pascal, Loeb or Arad, names that anyone who's talked about cape movies for a while can recognize.
>>81514926
>has more tension
Tension needs stakes and context to happen. Given that it was a flashback it's not like Bruce was going to die there or anything.
>>81514978
>with idiots like DiDio with his New52 fiasco
Diane Sawyer.
Why are namefags always so uninformed?
>>81514963
>AoU
>Mid tier
>Incredible Hulk
>High tier
I actually liked Hulk but come on, it was okay, not high tier. And Daredevil is trash, but I know I'm in the minority when I say that.
>>81515115
Don't forget John Peters
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wo2KB1dEDdk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53hMYw8LX60
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/batman-v-superman-needs-to-make-upwards-of-925-million-at-the-box-office-to-make-a-profit-a6961156.html
Just reminding people
>>81514979
Fair point.
>>81513732
>Billy Batson's probably an Adam Lanza in Synderverse
>>81515077
I'm not saying they shouldn't be in the movie at all (I mean, I would like them to not be but whatever), I'm saying why weren't they used at the end as a get hype piece instead of randomly in the middle? It adds nothing to the story and would accomplish the same goal by the end.
>>81515103
>If he isn't saving people, then why the fuck are you making a Superman movie?
But he was saving people. Just because they don't rape your ears with the overuse if the classic Superman theme and have him carry people on his arms for several minutes does not mean he does save people.
>>81513564
JUST FUCKING BOOT SNYDER JESUS
HOW IS THIS SO HARD TO GET
WB has always been shit, at least for the last 10 years
They put all their eggs into Nolans Batman and Harry Potter and now are scrambling to make a "franchise" rather than just good movies
Good riddance to bad garbage
>>81515249
>people are now shitting on Williams' Superman March
The lengths people will go to defend Snyder's shit
>>81515077
>Hez so smart cos he figured out all this cool shit off-screen
Yeah, quality writing right there
Stop rationalizing a fucking ad. Next you'll tell me the big, flashy SEARS logo during the Smallville fight in MoS was supposed to symbolize how the Kryptonian invasion was troubling america even in their everyday-life or some shit
>>81515268
Welp, they pulled another HP movie out of their ass, time to get Nolan back for The Dark Knight Returns Again
>>81515265
He just needs another chance with our multibillion-dollar properties. He'll knock it out of the park next time :)
>>81513652
Except pretty much everybody agrees that Batfleck was the best aspect of the movie.
You know what was disappointing about BvS? The scenes of Superman saving people were relegated to a slow-motion montage. Under a competent director, we could have had some cool action scenes, like Supes saving a sinking ship, or people in a burning building.
>>81515265
As long as his wife and his company are producing these movies, he's staying around
>>81515203
I checked the source on that one
They don't explain where they got the 925 million from.
>>81514817
Zack is a conman
He conned his way into WB by tricking people he was some sort of misunderstood auteur who wanted to take the DC mythos into the next level and dug himself so far into all production that now you can't get rid of him.
We'll never be rid of him.
>>81515189
And that nigga only produced 2 DC movies. Roven will have produced 7 by next year.
>>81513971
It was disgusting how Cross didn't seem to mind getting any of that on his fingers.
>>81515249
He was saving people, alright. He was saving people in the most annoyed way. He seemed to hate being Superman. That sucks. Superman shouldn't be jaded 2 years into his tenure.
>>81515233
Because it successfully sets up the entire twist that Lex has been manipulating everyone for months by knowing who Batman and Superman really are. It works both as a hype teaser moment AND as a plot point.
>>81515331
Or saving another plane, because why not.
>>81514044
>Disney is just selling us commercials for their next movie and everyone think that's how Superheroes movies are supposed to be.
ASM2 was nothing but a trailer for hypothetical sequels.
Fan4stic was a shitshow that sold itself as an enigma.
GotG is a complete movie. Winter Soldier is a complete movie. Ant-Man is a complete movie.
>>81515295
>tfw European so you didn't even see any product placement that MoS was supposedly plagued with
>>81515109
These guys are such Super Nazis, they're nazis to even other nazis.
>>81515331
Making it a montage to begin with screams of "oh fuck we got to spend time on that shit? fuck it, let's make it a montage and go on with our B(v)S".
>>81515440
Then where is the capital?
>>81515354
Production budget was 250 million (although that's now being reported as 300 million), plus 150 million advertising budget (which is also being reported as higher) plus distribution budget.
So this movie cost anywhere between 400-500 for WB. Studio takes around 50% of the box office, means it needs to make between 800-1b to cover their costs, anything above that is profit
>>81515103
>Superman isn't a man.
>He's a platonic ideal of a superhuman that will never stop trying to save everyone.
Clark has to rest sometime, numbnuts
God bless John Byrne.
>>81515367
"Oh well, I guess I gotta save the little girl from this burning building I guess, oh jeez, now they're crowding around me, fucking hell go away normies reeeee"
"Guess I gotta drag this boat across the ice."
"Guess I gotta save this space shuttle now"
"Oh look there's some people down there on roofs reaching out to me for help. I mean, I guess I should save them and all but eh, do I really want to? Maybe I'll just think about it as I bask in the sun some more"
>>81515465
Also Clark has a real job
>>81515388
Okay but why have that in the middle? It completely breaks the pacing. Everybody who's reviewed this movie has stated this part is weird. There is no reason for it to be in the middle of the film
>>81515203
I don't think the numbers needed are that high, but man, these movies make most of their money from the domestic box office of the first weeks, right?
Even ignoring the marketing budget (which i have to guess they mostly covered with that stuff like the Turkish airline commercials), the movie is only now getting past the $250 millions mark that was the official budget (which is rumored to be higher than that)
That can't be good
>>81515403
>Winter Soldier is a complete movie.
Well.... you really need to have seen TFA to really get the characters. You can jump in, but it's certainly set up by the 1st movie.
And leaves things unresolved regarding Bucky.
So it's a gret movie imo, but no.
GOTG and Ant-Man, sure, they're origin movies, origin movies are usually fairly self-contained.
>>81515521
The fact that it hasn't beaten Deadpool yet which didn't even open in China is probably enough of a flag
>>81515456
Probably the Moon, that's how Super Nazis are.
>>81514978
Bruce Timm should have been the Kevin Fiege of the movies.
>>81513564
>DC movies fail
>DC comics improve
Why is this bad?
>>81515403
It seems like now, Marvel is doing one movie that's a big tie-in to the main story of the cinematic universe a year, and one that is off to the side, still related but doing its own thing. TWS/GotG, AoU/Ant-Man, probably CW/Dr. Strange. It works.
>>81515403
>GotG is a complete movie. Winter Soldier is a complete movie. Ant-Man is a complete movie.
And so is ASMS2 and BvS.
>>81515432
I'm european myself, i never notices stuff like the ihops shop, but the Sears logo has a ridicolous presence in at least two shots, it's too obvious even if you can't recognize the brand
>>81514126
Mad Max made no money even though it was the greatest action movie in decades and highly praised.
>>81514932
Those were Hydra goons brought by YJ to secure the selling of the tech.
The dude he saved was an inocent security guard.
>>81515582
BvS can't be a complete movie. It ends on like three cliffhangers and is basically a Part Zero for Justice League, not to mention we know NOTHING about Wonder Woman
>>81515603
Mad Max won a bunch of Oscars though so the studio can be satisfied with that.
There's nothing in it for the studio with BvS.
>>81515592
Well I didn't see it, I didn't even notice that the prisoner pods looks like dicks.
>>81515603
>better than Dredd
>better than John Wick
>better than The Raid
Get the fuck outta here.
>>81513620
>is a movie that even people who liked it wouldn't go out and see it more than once
Well you're completely wrong, BvS has some of the most repeat viewings of any blockbuster in the past few years at least.
So did most of you faggots not even read the article?
They basically say they're taking less risks for non branded titles (Jupiter Ascending, Pan, Heart of the Sea) in lieu of doubling down on dc, lego and HP films. Hell they just slated 3 new dc movies...
>>81514983
I disagree, I would rather watch The Game to see a real Michael Douglas performance
>>81515612
>Those were Hydra goons brought by YJ to secure the selling of the tech.
I'm pretty sure they weren't. The Hydra guys were YJ's clients, not his goons.
Did anyone here actually read the article? It says the exact opposite of the OP. We now live in the age of clickbait thread titles.
>>81515009
you dind't get it then
>>81514963
GotG should be High Tier
Hulk should be Mid Tier
Thor should be Shit Tier
>>81515629
All the points you mentioned does not make it any less complete. 1984 ended with a cliffhanger and a LOT OF shit unanswered, but that book and movie is not any less complete then something like All quiet on the western front.
>>81515630
Yeah the Oscars that doesn't matter
>>81515651
Yes, it was better than those.
>>81515640
They looked so much like dicks I didn't notice they were prisoner pods.
>>81515009
>>81515072
>>81515117
let me guess, you also are the same retards that think that Bruce and Clark became friends because their mom have the same name
>>81515661
Source?
>>81514722
>I-it's okay! Old movies were dumb sometimes, too!
Now who's making excuses?
>>81515733
Dredd you could argue for, and maybe, maybe it could be better than John Wick. But there's no way it was better than The Raid.
>>81515103
He was saving people you dumb fuck. At all of the complaint people have about DCEU Superman this is the dumbest one because you weren't actually paying attention.
>>81514339
>Marvel was only starting to get its sequel bait hype machine into gear during the Nolan films
Iron Man came out the same year as the Dark Knight.
>>81515757
I don't see you answering the question
>>81515749
Then what do we make of this situation? I even browse /d/ and I still didn't see dicks.
BATMAN IS ALWAYS PREPARED FOR EVERYTHING
>>81515728
>Yeah the Oscars that doesn't matter
Any Oscar that TFA rightfully didn't win matters.
>>81515780
>movies adapted from cape comics should never have "dumb" things happening in them
Are you even serious with that shit? The very premise is "dumb", get the fuck out of here.
>>81515780
nice strawman faggot.
>>81515265
You have to understand that for the execs at WB, hiring Snyder made perfect sense. All of his previous movies up until that point were decently successful adaptations of other properties (300, DoD, Watchmen).
>>81515815
Well see now that's just you being acustomed to them. You see so many dicks obviously phallic things don't register with you.
http://comicbook.com/2016/04/06/wonder-woman-movie-gets-moved-up-two-untitled-dc-films-get-relea/
>Warner Bros. has moved up the release date of Wonder Woman.
>The film has been moved from its June 23, 2017 release and will now open weeks earlier, on June 2, 2017.
>Warner Bros. also slotted two untitled DC Comics movies for Oct. 5, 2018 and Nov. 1, 2019.
Solo Batman possibly coming 2018.
>>81514190
R Rated Lobo movie when?
Deadpool was the safest R rated film I've seen in a long time
At least Brothers Grimsby had elephant jizz in it
>>81515843
Fine I was wrong, editing does matter. Best costume and make up less so.
>>81515888
But he should have been let go after MoS.
>>81515367
>WAH SUPERMAN WASN'T SMILING ENOUGH
OH GOD can this complaint get nore annoying? How puerile have we made Superman that if he doesn't bake us cookies while saving people that it makes his heroic efforts null and void?
>>81515890
There might be something in what you say, but if I see so many dicks then shouldn't obviously phallic things register even more?
>>81515922
Was also decently succesful.
>>81515103
Supefags are the most entitled and sanctimonious assholes.
Hollywood is gonna crash, and it will be glorious
>>81515922
It still made money though, which is what the execs saw. Sure, in competent hands, it could have made much more, in addition to being a better movie overall, but the ossified board directors that run WB are completely oblivious to that. It the same principle at work in the AAA games industry, the anime industry, etc.
>>81515895
You can't imagine how hard I'm praying the earlier release date for Wonder Woman means the film is rock solid and they want to sweep as much of the month as possible.
>>81515895
So in a thread about WB abandoning their films, there is 2 new announced films?
Hmmmmmmm
>>81515895
>dceu is dead
>scrap it all!
>>81515969
No, it works like drug tolerance, the more you see of something the less it registers with you.
>>81515982
I don't think this guy is a Superfag, they don't usually tend to qualify him as "not a man".
>>81513740
facts are not allowed here anon.
>>81516050
The original release was the same weekend as transformers, it's new release is with bad boys 3 and a week after pirates. A summer release is still an indicator that they are confident, if they moved it to march or July you could be worried
>>81516050
More like "Oh shit, people hated Superman, and had mixed feelings about Batman, but they seem to like this Amazon chick we forcefully crammed in the movie. Better push her further while there is still some goodwill left."
>>81515757
And you're one of those retards that comes up with an headcanon around "MUH MARTA" and then calls it official
For now i've seen at least 2-3 explanations flying around
There's the rather simple and thus most realistic version
>Batman realized Superman was a person* too
*please ignore that Batman was more than aware that all the other people he kil-- manslaughter'd before and after the Superman fight were persons with moms too
Then there's the "please WB give me more narrative-breaking ads" version
>Batman realized that losing her mom* was going to turn Superman into the Super-bad-dude from his visions
*please ignore that Flash said Lois was the key, not Martha
And then there's my personal favourite, "why can't you sheep see this totally real and not contrived at all character arc" version
>Batman realized that losing her mom was going to turn Superman into a vengeful murderer just like it happened to him so he finally sees Superman as a person and a new paragon of virtue thanks to which he decides not to kill anymore*
*please ignore that right after that he partially manslaughtered Luthor's small army, KGBeast at the very least
>>81516073
Well it's settled then, I have to thank /d/ for making me see so many dicks.
>>81514143
http://video.disney.com/watch/new-pet-ant-man-film-clip-52474898f7b2e91de32f275d
Only clip I could find, but I love how authentic it is. Both Scott and Bobby Cannavale celebrate Cassie doing a Cartwheel more than they do fighting supervillians. Like, Supervillains are just a day in the life, but Cassie's first Cartwheel? Now that's special!
How nice now we got to see them make shitty Marvel rip-offs.
>>81513564
>The biggest problem is that it is not turning DC into Marvel.
That's a good thing though. Nobody needs two Marvels.
>>81515895
Well, I guess that's a goodbye to cyborg and maybe aquaman if all the recent talk of the flash/cyborg stuff turns out true
>>81516119
>KGBeast at the very least
He's in SS, so not dead
>>81514525
I didn't want to use this as an excuse at all, but it just makes too much sense. Go look at critic reviews and user reviews, and see how many complain that the movie is just too dark, too serious and too violent, and somehow that is considered a viable critique. Bullshit. Hell, a lot of the reviews even specifically compare it to the MCU, and they complain that the movie was bad because it didn't make them smile. There is next to no subjectivity when people review this film, and it's terrible. I'm not saying the movie doesn't have some faults, but being dark and having no jokes isn't one of them.
I feel like if this movie came out 15 years ago, people would love the fuck out of it. The cinematic climate has shifted dramatically since then. I feel like audiences of the late '90s would have killed for a grim Superman/Batman crossover. But now, everyone needs capeshit to be happy, inoffensive, feel-good shit. It's fine if you like that, but don't pretend it's objectively better.
>>81515367
I appreciate that you feel that way, but this is a different take on Superman. It's Superman in a real, modern world, filled with horrific evils and moral dilemmas. I find it extremely interesting to explore this. Superman's physical strength is never what's tested in these films, it's his willpower, and his confidence, and that, to me, is a smart decision instead of pulling a "Superman Returns" and having him lift an island of kryptonite into space just so you can show a montage of everyone in Metropolis circle-jerking over their big blue boy scout.
Do I love boy scout Superman? Hell yes, but he's been done. Completely. Especially in movies. I'm glad we're getting something new.
WB maved WW movie 2 weeks earlier to not compete with new transformers movie. Seems like no one gives a damns about DC/E
WB movies, they just put same opening week and then WB gets afraid and move the release date. what a joke
>>81515895
Cyborg and Shazam are out then?
>>81516170
And SS can't be a prequel?
>>81516060
I think the whole abandoning thing just means they're changing their priorities based on what people reacted to in BvS.
I mean come on:
>Batman in BvS was very well received
>Affleck has a Batman script
WB just needs to announce it now.
>>81516119
It's not headcanon, the fact that you think it is shows how fucking stupid moviegoers. Do you need your hand held for absolutely everything?
>>81516170
Really? Never heard of this
>>81515895
October 5th ismy birthday
>>81516197
Why would it be?
>>81516119
Whatever the point was it was a shitty way to get it across.
And I understand, some guy went "HEY GUYS! WOOOOW, THIER MOMS HAVE THE SAME NAME" and they all got excited about it and decided to put into the movie. Which is sort of neat, but then they made that into the thing that triggers Batman to have whatever realization it is, which is hamfisted as fuck.
>>81514656
Dude who made that webm is being too salty. They use aspects of a 70's political thriller to make their film, like the plot structure: 1st half is Cap finding out about the conspiracy, 2nd half is him seeing who is behind it and bringing the fight to them.
>>81516170
>He's in SS, so not dead
so SS is before batman v superman
>>81516240
Why wouldn't it be?
>>81513897
>I think there's a strong case to be made about how Marvel has slowly poisoned the well, if you will, and conditioned people to only want action comedies from capeshit.
this is so fucking retarded, it's doing fine, audiences want a good film first and foremost. By your logic AoU should have been herald as the best cape film but it got pan by critics
anyone have that list of all the dark cape shit that's doing well?
It fucking failed because the movie was a mess narratively and we are given such ham fisted motives for everyone's actions. I think I have to go back to 70s movie animations to find plots that disjointed.
>>81516110
>a week after pirates.
This is gonna hurt it, not Bad Boys
>>81516191
Bvs was given a wide berth and 2017 is riddled with potential billion dollar releases
>>81516119
>*please ignore that Batman was more than aware that all the other people he kil-- manslaughter'd before and after the Superman fight were persons with moms too
Yes, but him manslaughtering of goons was a direct result of his xenophobic paranoia fulled murder boner for Superman. He snaps out of it and realizes his icreaded cruelty was wrong and he needs to redeem himself.
>>81515699
Watch the film again, those two guys were in the room
>>81516117
>More like "Oh shit, people hated Superman, and had mixed feelings about Batman, but they seem to like this Amazon chick we forcefully crammed in the movie. Better push her further while there is still some goodwill left."
it's not this, june 23 is also new transformers movie. WB doesn't want competition
>>81516279
Daredevil at least, and Days of Future Past was pretty grim at times.
>>81515776
My asshole
>>81516197
>>81516240
>>81516278
It's confirmed to take place after BvS
>>81516302
>hur what about KGBeast?
What about Ras al ghul from Batman begins?
>>81514775
motherfucking this. i ended up seeing ant-man 5 times including 3 times that weekend (thursday, friday, sunday). the only other marvel movies i did that for was avengers (5), guardians (4), and the winter soldier (3). all were so good you had to go back again.
bvs felt like 3 hours of punishment for wanting to see world's finest meets the dark knight returns. two polar opposites, but there was no way they were doing tdkr as the entire plot when the trailers kept suggesting the murder scout was now doing heroic deeds and fatman was all about the 'muh family!' angle for going after him.
>>81516372
Source?
>>81514191
>I think it's weird and pretty ironic that Marvel film's are "safe" and "formula" but WB's one size fits all answer of "Put more Batman in it!" is totally A-Okay.
I agree, it's rather eye rolling when they talk about MCU being paint by the numbers even though DC films suffer very similar formulas.
>>81516182
>Go look at critic reviews and user reviews, and see how many complain that the movie is just too dark, too serious and too violent, >they complain that the movie was bad because it didn't make them smile.
Maybe they had expectations from previous Superman material and the idea they had of the character in general. If this was an OC donut steel in the style of Hyperion or Supreme, sure, it wouldn't be a valid criticism, but people have expectations from a character named Superman and who dons the costume.
>But now, everyone needs capeshit to be happy, inoffensive, feel-good shit.
Nigga it's Superman. Fucking Superman. You want to make a dark movie it's great but don't make it about fucking Superman, there are tons of better IPs to play with to do that.
>yfw Godzilla vs. King Kong is better than BvS and Civil War
They need to make a lobo movie, rated R and rake in the cash.
>>81516411
They really don't though, at least the DCEU doesn't.
>>81515041
Exactly. So, so bad of a movie. I put aside my general RR dislike (outside of 2 Guys, 1 Girl of course) to see Hal Jordon on the big screen... so much regret. Now some of the decent actors used for characters like Sinestro will never get to play the role again.
>>81516400
http://screenrant.com/batman-v-superman-suicide-squad-movie-connections
>>81516170
>so not dead
Well, it wasn't for the lack of trying!
>>81516400
Not him but the bvs ew article mentioned it and Snyder/Ayer confirmed it a few times
>>81516240
Because WB is stupid enough to do that.
>>81513652
People who have a hate boner for Batman are really sad
>>81514191
But Green lantern copied the marvel formula. Like it takes a special kind of idiot not to see the cogs and gears that drives the MCU and how all their movies are toothless and inoffensive family films.
>>81516417
OH SHIT. I completely forgot this is happening. I hope Skull Island turns out to be good.
>>81516417
So Kong is now a zillion feet tall too? He can't climb buildings, he'd just crush them.
>>81516304
>those two guys were in the room
No they weren't, they were the security that YJ told to "kill anything that comes out of that vault" to after coming out of said vault.
Regardless Luis can't know that.
>Two MORE DC movies announced
Get fucked.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/warner-bros-pushes-jungle-book-881353
>>81516414
>YOU CAN'T MAKE A DARK MOVIE ABOUT SUPERMAN
Why the fuck not? Because your nostalgia won't allow it?
>>81516414
>If this was an OC donut steel in the style of Hyperion or Supreme, sure, it wouldn't be a valid criticism, but people have expectations from a character named Superman and who dons the costume.
This is stupid, though. Superman is capable of such a wide range as a central character. There's so much to be done with him besides saving cats out of trees, but that's all people want. The sad part is, at his core, this IS still the same Superman. No matter what bullshit he's had to put up with in the movies, he kept giving his best, right up until it killed him. Fucking hardcore, man. That's Superman, to me.
>You want to make a dark movie it's great but don't make it about fucking Superman, there are tons of better IPs to play with to do that.
Marvel is already doing that stuff to death, though. Superman works well as a symbol of controversy.
I think people need to let go of what they think Superman movies should be. You talk about preconceptions as though they're a good thing. They are a horrific pox on any kind of creative medium. If I want happy Superman, there are literally hundreds of comics, cartoons and movies I can watch. I'm glad we're getting something different, and even though the films have some flaws, and really annoyed at the notion that WB might try to retool them to pander to audiences, because I like the direction they're taking.
>>81516494
It's not about any kind of formula, it's about producing quality work. Marvel is formulaic, but produces quality. DC tries to copy their formula, but cannot copy their quality.
>>81513897
It's posts like this that make me glad DC is dying.
>>81516302
>Yes, but him manslaughtering of goons was a direct result of his xenophobic paranoia fulled murder boner for Superman.
"There are aliens in space, Alfred! Gotta kill some people here on earth now, I GUESS!"
What's the connection between Superman alien background and Batman killing people in the recent times?
>>81516601
It's threads like this that make me glad the comic industry is dying.
>>81515776
http://screenrant.com/batman-v-superman-repeat-ticket-sales/
>>81516590
>but produces quality
Don't make me laugh.
>>81516538
>They'll be all Marvel ripoffs with quips
The only one getting fucked here is you, fuccboi.
>>81516494
Explain to the idiots anon.
Explain the "Marvel formula"
![3f7d7a07d44e7a8a8aadff4dd2416670[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/VxInI9X.jpg "3f7d7a07d44e7a8a8aadff4dd2416670[1]")
>DC will finally be free of WB's grasp
rejoice bros, the golden age is upon us
>>81516302
>SUPERMAN, you caused all those people to die, now i shall kill YOU!
>WAIT, YOU'RE NOT A BAD GUY? Holy shit, i have to kill people myself RIGHT NOW to make amend
????
>>81516628
It made his dick feel small so he felt he had to kill people to get shit done
>>81516538
It's more likely than not that one of the 2018 and 2019 films get cancelled or pushed back for those 2 new ones, marvel starts releasing 3 a year in 2018 and there's 2 xmen movies for 2018 as well, very busy year for comic book movies
>>81516452Is it OK to use Screenrant?
>>81513979
>The fact that the ex-wife's new husband isn't treated as an asshole and ends up being Scott's friend
It was a very minor part of the movie but god dammit I loved Paxton.
You feel like the script is setting him up as "the asshole new husband with a bone to pick with the protagonist", but he's just a cop doing his job and reasonably not wanting his wife's ex-con ex to drop by his house uninvited. And he ends up genuinely caring about Cassie and in good terms with Scott.
>>81516590
>Marvel makes quality
Let's agree to disagree but just know that you're laughably wrong.
>>81516559
You can, people just won't like it except if it's very well made.
I'm not nostalgic about Superman, I only started liking him in my late 20s.
>>81516702
http://comicbook.com/2016/04/01/batman-v-superman-repeat-ticket-purchases-are-30-higher-than-typ/
Is this better?
>>81516713
Yeah, what's up with all the good writing in these movies right? I sure wasn't expecting that.
>>81516559
>>81516589
Kingdom Come is a dark Superman story.
Dark isn't bad automatically, it's all about the execution, which is where Snyder fumbles.
>>81516719
>I'm not nostalgic about Superman, I only started liking him in my late 20s.
I only started caring about Superman after MoS
Reading and watching more Superman made me dislike MoS. The fucking irony
>Shazam
>Cyborg
>Blue and Gold
>Dark Universe
>All the slated spin-offs
ALL DEAD
>>81516745
I meant to say is 4chan gonna bully me for going there.
>>81513950
>>81514480
Except for 300 they were all commercial flops, quality matters little
>>81515640
I'm sorry, but did we even watch the same movie? I was sitting there in the theatre, asking myself
>Why are they molding Zod ando his goons into giant dildos?
>Why are the giant dildos all flying up into a Giant sky anus?
Followed later on by
>Why is Pa Kent such an enormous fucking douchebag?
>>81516670
But they are. Marvel movies are liked by audience and critics alike. They stand for quality blockbuster entertainment. Nothing great or mind-blowing most of the time, but never a true stinker like Green Lantern, MoS or BvS. Same with their tv shows. Marvel's flagship tv show is Daredevil. DC's flagship tv show is Arrow. That's the Marvel vs DC quality difference in a nutshell right now.
>>81516713
Seriously though, Ant Man was a joy. Paxton, Luis and the gang, Cross slowly getting more unhinged, it was all so good.
>>81516860
We did watch the same movie, but while everyone else saw dicks and product placement I did not.
>>81516670
>>81516716
The critics seem to disagree with you.
>>81516478
But I don't have a hate boner for Batman.
Arkham City is one of my favourite games ever and Animated Batman Adventures is one of my favourite TV shows of all time.
WB are just embarrasing though. They make all their characters look retarded for the sake of Batman looking good.
>>81516865
>but never a true stinker like Green Lantern, MoS or BvS
What is Thor the dark world.
>>81514608
People hates Superman too much. WB made him into a brooding emo because the general audience hates Supes for being a boy scout
>>81516590
>Marvel is formulaic, but produces ticket sales
ftfy
>>81516898
Yeah? YEAH? Well... uh, the critics...
Fuck, what was it, are they all bought off by Disney or did they all just become dumb in time for the MCU?
>>81513925
CEO being turned into a speck of goop, the training montages, that mexican guy telling his stories, and that trippy scene when ant-man shrunk infinitely.
>>81516891
Then get your fucking eyes checked, MoleMan.
Let's say this happens:
>Civil War does well
>Suicide Squad does poorly
>Dr.Strange pulls an Ant-man
What is the future of DC Cinema?
What really annoyed me with this movie was that Superman and Wonder Woman actually have zero dialogue with each other. They had zero screentime together apart from fight scenes.
This is essentially the justice league movie and these two are meant to be best fucking friends and we get nothing. No development, no interesting scenes where they get to know each other either as Superman and Wonder Woman, or Clark and Diana.
This is what happens when you listen to focus groups and let retards dictate your shit
>>81516963
better than Thor 1, but that's not saying much
>>81517003
I think it was the first one, go with that.
>>81516589
I mean, it's not really just him "saving cats out of trees" people want, it's more him behaving like a human being. At least that's how I see it.
There's nothing inherently wrong with doing Superman "dark", whatever that means, but you have to do it competently. It's been done in the past and it was interesting, but the only people who think Snyder's take was novel just plain have never fucking read Superman.
At this point it's more novel and refreshing to play Superman straight than to subvert him.
I still think it's a bad idea to set the Superman of your extended whatever universe to be that guy. Sure movies are elsewords, but Elseworlds are also largely standalone and don't cost millions of dollars to make, so if people don't like it and go full "not muh" it's not the end of the world.
>Superman works well as a symbol of controversy.
That's the last thing I'd think Superman is a symbol of. And no, Marvel is not doing a dark movie about a Superman ripoff so I'm not sure where you got that idea.
>You talk about preconceptions as though they're a good thing.
No I talk about them like they're a fact. That's what happens when you play with corporate-owned IPs that have a long history in the life of the audience. You can defy them and people will aplaud if it's done well. In this case I just don't think it was, and solely subverting the idea that Superman stories are lighthearted isn't enough to sell me on it.
>f I want happy Superman, there are literally hundreds of comics, cartoons and movies I can watch.
Yeah same if you want him sad or angry. Alright I'm not sure what's the point of talking with someone who hasn't even read Kingdom Come or Red Son.
>>81516963
A movie that you dislike because of the romcon aspects that probably don't always fit the setting and characters and not because of real storytelling/acting/directional problems
And it is the lowest rated MCU movie, it's not like people praised it
>>81517031
Kinda knew it was gonna be a wreck when they didn't title the the movie 'Worlds Finest'. That was like the easiest layup for a movie title ever.
>>81517028
Batkino
Jesus, you guys are some illiterate motherfuckers. The article says that due to a string of bombs - Jupiter Ascending, Pan, In the Heart of the Sea, etc. - and BvS underpreforming, the studio is going to cut the number of artsy Oscar bait films and do the Disney model of focusing more on money-making blockbusters. Why? Because nobody watches artsy Oscar bait films. Studios have been transitioning to a blockbuster-focused model for years now because they're the only things that make money right now.
So, we'll be getting LESS stuff like Black Mass and Creed. And MORE DC, MORE Harry Potter and MORE Lego. If BvS hadn't underperformed, they could have used that to fund the little Oscar bait projects. But that's not the case those projects which are more about prestige and less about money aren't going to be financed as much.
Read it fuckers. MORE DC. MORE Potter. MORE Lego.
>>81516898
The critics don't know Dick. Critics hated John Carpenter's the thing and Led Zeppelin, critics hated most cult classics that we know and love.
>>81517026
You clean your mind of lewd thoughts
>>81514523
His Dawn of the Dead is probably one of the best zombie movies ever made.
>Yes, I'm including Romero's work
>>81517063
Even if it was good, calling "Worlds Finest" is just asking for critics to take shots at it
Like "Amazing" Spider-Man
>>81516867
>it was all so good.
>Cross slowly getting more unhinged
Cross was batshit insane since the very start. You don't murder someone during the first act in cold blood and then claim he was slowly losing it. Cross' entire villain arc, if you can even call it that, was one of the worst things in the movie. Completely awkward attempt to fix it in editing.
>>81516865
>but never a true stinker like Green Lantern, MoS or BvS
All better than Thor or IM2 and the last two better than Avengers and Captain America TFA.
>>81513925
Everyone in the movie is a cuck
Ant-Man is a cuck because other guy is fucking his wife.
The mentioned guy is also a cuck because he's rising other guy's daughter and despite him trying to be a good guy she hates him.
The villain is a cuck because he wanted to fuck the old Ant-man's daughter but she was just using him.
>>81517054
>and not because of real storytelling/acting/directional problems
And what if I hated the movie for that?
>And it is the lowest rated MCU movie, it's not like people praised it
They praise it more then MoS and BvS, for reasons unknown to me.
>>81516590
>Marvel is formulaic, but produces quality
kek You guys need to start watching real movies.
>>81517028
Batman for the next two decades
>>81517150
>muh cuck
get sunlight
>>81517105
>A small bunch of american elitist journalists from 2 decades ago are comparable to the hundreds of diverse reviewers of modern times
This "unrecognized masterpiece" meme needs to stop
>>81517105
Ebert hated Blade Runner and when it became a cult classic he changed his mind.
>>81517178
I say that to anyone that found Dawn of Justice good as well.
>>81513732
>>81514130
Shazam is probably one of the few titles you can actually depend on coming out. The Rock is a consistent draw, and is a Hollywood action movie anchor, so him being on the project pretty much makes it a green-lit guarantee.
>>81517105
Critics also hated a lot of shit that turned out to just be shit
>>81517166
>And what if I hated the movie for that?
Do tell, because the only legit argument against TDW that i know of is how pointless Malekith felt
>>81517200
Fuck off. Ant-Man is the greatest Cuckkino movie of the decade.
>>81517207
He didn't hate Blade Runner though, he gave it a 3/4. And he gave The Final Cut a 4/4.
>>81517133
"The Amazing Spiderman" is a terrible title anyway.
They should've gone with Spectacular Spiderman, It just sounds better to say.
What exactly is the problem with this movie? My friend said it was great, imdb and RT have polar opposite scores, 4chan (which I know from experience hates everything) says it sucks. So what's the big deal?
>>81517031
Snyder already said he can't take superheroes talking in-costume seriously.
Alright, let's pretend the Snyderverse only features OC donut steel characters that sort of look like the DC characters but really aren't, Watchmen-style.
Do you like those movie better or worse?
>>81517031
Superman would have to be slightly human to be friends and they have to give Wonder Woman a character
>>81517308
It's bad.
But opinions dictate at least 30% of the global population will like it.
MATH
>>81517340
Eh, it feels less weird, but it still has bad editing, stupid script, meh soundtrack and way too much slow-motion.
>>81517244
Then here are some
>Giving us the origin of the red stone at the start of the movie only to then give it later into the movie
>Everything regarding Stellan Skarsgård character
>Side characters being pointless or badly written
>While also not giving them any development
>>81516387
holy shit you are legitimately retarded
>>81517150
>Pym's not a cuck
Widowers are truly alpha af.
>>81517040
>That's the last thing I'd think Superman is a symbol of
Then you're an idiot. If you can't imagine a fucking invincible alien god causing controversy, simply by just existing, you're a blind manchild.
>And no, Marvel is not doing a dark movie about a Superman ripoff
I was saying that Marvel is already in the market of "feel good" cape flicks, so WB really shouldn't be trying to one-up them on that. I think it was almost cheapen the impact of a generic Superman movie.
>At this point it's more novel and refreshing to play Superman straight than to subvert him.
>I still think it's a bad idea to set the Superman of your extended whatever universe to be that guy
I don't think so, because the wonder of Superman is that at his core, he always ends up being the same character. A guy who wants to do good, and serendipitously has the power to do so. They're not changing Superman. They almost NEVER change Superman. They change the world around him, and this changes his reaction, but in every incarnation, he still carries the same ideals. Anyone who is capable of basic analysis can see that.
> That's what happens when you play with corporate-owned IPs that have a long history in the life of the audience
So we can both agree that audiences are stupid as shit, right? Like, 90% of them are morons. Yes, preconceptions do exist, and yes, pandering to them does indeed generate money, and possibly always quality, but I can tell you that I personally wouldn't have enjoyed getting another Donner-wanking Boy Scout movie. Just because it is widely accepted, and would pull in audiences, doesn't mean that it SHOULDN'T be subverted.
>Alright I'm not sure what's the point of talking with someone who hasn't even read Kingdom Come or Red Son.
Why do you assume I haven't read them? The point I was making was that happy, sunny, generic Superman stories far, FAR outnumber anything else, you stupid fuck, and I'm glad we're getting something different.
>>81514091
>AND MANY MORE!
Nah, I think you covered it
>>81515505
MoS Clark got his first real job at age 33
>>81516387
>these are the people that capeshit movies are pandering to
No wonder it's such a downward spiral
I wonder when /co/ will finally realize that Superman just isn't that popular among general audiences. I know /co/ likes to circlejerk to Supes and whine about normies liking Batman, but Jesus it's kind of embarrassing at this point. Superman is dead in popular culture.
>>81516589
>>81517040
The problem is dark does not work without light, contrast is very important in these kinds of movies and MoS and this fail at it
Take the (arguably but the movie is a cluttered mess) conflict, Batman v Superman. One is a psychopathy billionaire playboy who murders any criminal he wants and will steal to kill others, the other is a scary god alien who also murders. There isn't any real contrast going on, this is dark and dark. And from what we know of both their pasts it was dark and unhappy so it isn't like a it came to this situation, it was always dark and unhappy. The only happy moments in the movie are tiny scenes like the bath bit, you know when they celebrate the day the hooked up in space 9/11.
>>81513925
Holy shit, look at you projecting your bad memory and lack of interest on others.
Dude, I remember every line of that movie, and I watched it like twice months ago.
You guys better pray Skwad does alright
the entire DCEU depends on it
>>81517363
>it's bad
Thanks for answering the question, numnut.
>>81513771
It's funny, /co/ was talking the other day about how Thor has sort of taken Superman's place for a generation of kids now. That's the power of blank-man, Snyder. Marvel's characters aren't as well known, yes, but thanks to the MCU they've been seared into the next generation.
Superman is iconic, no doubt. But the audience he's supposed to be iconic too? The kids? They've never actually seen why he's important.
10 years ago no kid would've told you Ironman was his favorite hero, most probably wouldn't even know who he was. Things are changing, and they're changing fast.
Cape movies suck anyway, regardless they're marvel of dc
>>81517308
I'm a MoS fan and a DC fanboy but frankly, BvS could have easily had 30 minutes to an hour shaved off. There's so much redundant story.
Not only this but I get the escapism in a movie. When you see a film like Iron Man, you might want to be a billionare in a suit yourself, fighting crime. When you see The Hulk, you might wish you could vent so explosively without fear of reprisal. When you watch Thor I can believe you wanting to be a demi-god with a perfect physique and the ability to pull women. I get the appeal of wanting to be Black Widow, a sexy spy, or Captain America, the perfect soldier.
At no point did I ever want to be the Batman or Superman in these movies, and ultimately, that's what they should be: escapism
>>81517698
Cape TV shows are amazing though.
>>81516182
Birthright handled Superman being in a world where punching and lifting things real good wasn't enough, and they did it without turning him into a scowling mope.
>>81517652
Shit man, I was talking to my nephew the other day, and he told me his favorite superhero was Hawkeye, and I was honestly shocked.
The times they are a changin'.
>>81517699
Now I just really want to ride some fish like that.
>>81517028
really looking forward to the batman, batman and batgirl, batman and batwoman and the new avengers type movie, batfamily
>>81517576
>The problem is dark does not work without light
Oh well, thanks Confucius. This is bullshit and means nothing. Dark can absolutely work without light.
>>81517699
>At no point did I ever want to be the Batman or Superman in these movies, and ultimately, that's what they should be: escapism
Why don't you work on improving your shitty life so that you don't need to "escape" into movies, eh?
>>81517770
>Hawkeye
So he's gay? You need to get him some help ASAP
>>81513905
300 was iconic.
It had flaws but it was a huge part of 2006.
>>81517510
>Then you're an idiot. If you can't imagine a fucking invincible alien god causing controversy, simply by just existing, you're a blind manchild.
The insults seem uncalled for. I can definitely imagine that in the real world, but when you say "Superman is a good symbol of controversy", that didn't sound like what you were saying at all. Because that's not what "symbol" is.
>I was saying that Marvel is already in the market of "feel good" cape flicks, so WB really shouldn't be trying to one-up them on that.
Eh. I think it's overrated among nerds how much normies realize those are actually movies made by 2 different companies.
And sure, don't make a light-hearted Batman, make WW a war movie, those sound like good ideas, but Superman is supposed to be the heart and soul of that group. He's supposed to be the moral core that brings people back together, and for that, you need some amount of levity. Doesn't mean he should quip like Tony Stark, just that he should have humanizing moments with normal people. He should have some goddamn basic people skills.
>I don't think so [...] but in every incarnation, he still carries the same ideals.
There's more to the character than that platonic idea, but sure.
>So we can both agree that audiences are stupid as shit, right? Like, 90% of them are morons.
Ah you're one of those guys. Well I don't really agree but that doesn't matter regardless, whether you think they're retarded or not, they're the people who will pay for you to make movies and who will ultimately decide whether the movie is considered good or not.
If you don't want to deal with the general audiences because you think they're too stupid to understand your deep artistic sense, maybe you shouldn't be making blockbusters about one of the most popular characters of all time.
I don't even like the Donner movies, they're almost as shallow as MoS.
>Why do you assume I haven't read them?
Because you're defending the Snyderverse as novel and refreshing.
>>81517741
No.
>>81517854
the same reason Synder doesn't work on improving his shitty movie. It's easy
>>81516775
>Cyborg
>DEAD
Good. I always hated him.
>>81517762
Birthright was a piece of shit though.
>>81514523
300 was nor bad, it was very stylized and was as close as you can get too a modern Rambo or predator in terms of an action flick.
It was by no means perfect but It was not bad
>>81517854
>This is bullshit and means nothing. Dark can absolutely work without light.
No it doesn't as with out the contrast it means nothing, it's just dull
>>81517854
>Why don't you work on improving your shitty life so that you don't need to "escape" into movies
if you have no interest in in escapism then you wouldn't watch cape films in the first place.
You might not want to be the heroes but the urge is still the same idea of tuning out the real world to enjoy a fictional one.
>>81517575
As someone who didn't like him before reading some actual good comcis with him, I can definitely understand that.
Are you telling me that people like this douchebag better?
The issue isn't that people don't like Superman or dumb old-fashioned heroics. Marvel does fine with deader IPs and playing heroics straight.
>>81517943
If the recent talk about cyborg are anything to go by he'll be buddying up with flash with his solo
>yfw Ang Lee Hulk, Fantastic Four Rise of the Silver Surfer, Amazing Spider-man 2, and X-men Origins Wolverine have a higher critic rating than Batman v Superman
>>81513620
I'm just so mad.
All I ever wanted a shared DC cinematic universe, but it looks like WB completely fucked that up by putting Zack Snyder in charge.
>>81517997
That's the thing though, I'm pretty sure MoS and BvS are an attempt to sell Superman as an interesting story device (not really as a full-on character) to people who don't really like superheroes when they're played straight.
>>81517652
Yeah, kids these days know way more about Marvel than they do about DC. Marvel is grabbing them young thanks to their agressive PR machine which includes toys, cartoons, movies, videogames and more.
DC is quite a failure in this regard, aside from Batman, they're not really getting kids. Their movies are just too dark. It also doesn't help that CN refuse to help.
>>81517337
then wtf is he doing making superhero movies
>>81517652
>It's funny, /co/ was talking the other day about how Thor
Not Cap?
>>81517877
So liking Superman would make him less gay?
>>81516775
>Blue and Gold
Booster Gold and Blue Beetle I take it? They would have fucked that up so hard.
>>81518285
Slightly less so, he probably would be a top instead of a bottom.
>>81517576
If you are so painfully blind that that's all you can see in these portrayals, you deserve to be disappointed.
>>81517914
>whether you think they're retarded or not, they're the people who will pay for you to make movies and who will ultimately decide whether the movie is considered good or not.
The difference between you and me is that you then think that pandering to this people is "right". Yeah, studios need to make money, but honestly, fuck those people. I'd rather see people take chances and create a new kind of story. The fact that you're just submitting to "well, that's the way it is, Supes just needs to be endlessly portrayed as a generic icon because that's what he is and that's what people want" is awful, and it's why we got the miserable shitpile that is Superman Returns.
>Because you're defending the Snyderverse as novel and refreshing.
Because it is. 99% of Superman stories are pretty much the same, happy, "Superman always wins and everyone loves him" BS. Just because Red Son and Kingdom Come exist, doesn't change the extreme imbalance.
>>81517997
>if you have no interest in in escapism then you wouldn't watch cape films in the first place.
It's terrible statements like this that frighten me. They really aren't about escapism for me. I want to see a story told. I want to see action happen. I want see how things unfold for these characters in a new continuity, and how they interact with each other. I don't want to BE in their world, or forget about mine. I don't understand this harping on escapism lately. Isn't that mentally unhealthy?
Then maybe the DCEU isn't a cape movie. Maybe it's just a movie where characters happen to be capes. And I like that.
>>81518024
>buddying up with flash with his solo
I hope they do the based Cyborg/Shazam bromace from the comics. They hardly get enough time together even in JL.
>>81518277
Let him explain himself
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UD3byJxc9Vc
>>81517652
I'm pretty sure kids care more about Iron Man, Hulk and Captain America than they do about Thor.
Otherwise, I agree, Marvel is capturing this generation.
>>81518189
Ang Lee Hulk was a good movie
>>81518278
Can't fly.
If WB tanks and drags DC down with it, do you think Marvel would acquire the rights to Batman, superman and the entire DC universe?
>>81517590
I hope it does poorly so they rework their plans.
>>81517575
A movie makes $8,000,000 dollars and from that you draw the conclusion that clearly nobody wants to see Superman on the big screen.
Are you brain damaged? Were the roughly 1 million people going out to see it doing it ironically? I mean shit, I won't dispute it was an awful film. But it didn't do bad because nobody wants to see boring ol' Superman. It did bad because it was a bad film.
>>81518418
If Time Warner sell them, maybe? Who else could afford them other than the mouse? The Mattel/Hasbro merger?
>>81518189
And yet people will defend it still
>>81514963
>Jessica Jones
>killgrave
>shit tier
but why
>>81518418
WB would never ever ever sell these rights, don't be delusional
>>81518344
>I want to see a story told. I want to see action happen. I want see how things unfold for these characters in a new continuity, and how they interact with each other.
That's escapism
Im frighten by your lack of compression and understanding of what and how escapism works
>>81518418
You're suggesting that they would sell their huge movie idea factory?
>>81518418
No. If the Mouse actually did manage that kind of acquiring, it'd keep the properties separate. Maybe organize an annual crossover or something.
>>81518418
No, because WB are owned by Time Warner and chances are Time Warner will not sell DC comics.
This is probably not the place to ask this, but does anyone know where I can find a good stream online to watch this?
>>81516973
Is that why Christopher Reeve is a much more well received interpretation of the character?
>>81518376
What I got from that
>Superhero movies are cool so why don't I shit all over them?
>>81518344
>I hope they do the based Cyborg/Shazam bromace from the comics.
This isn't even a thing. Also
>Shazam
>>81518412
Yeah but Cap as a character is much closer to Superman
>>81513564
>All these people suggesting they'd probably cut the films that no chance of success in the theatre
Have you not being looking at their fuckups? Those are the ones they'd probably put more money into.
>>81518412
>>81518608
Might I add the Captain America shield icon seems to be gaining a lot of relevance and can be a fitting successor to Superman's S Shield as an icon too. I notice people wearing Cap shirts as much as Superman shirts whenever I go out.
>>81518468
The story progressed nowhere near fast enough, the character development was sketchy and there was nothing memorable to keep the viewer hooked.
I'm trying to think back to think if there were any scenes that stand out in my memory and I honestly can't think of one.
>>81518508
No
es·cap·ism
əˈskāpˌizəm/
noun
the tendency to seek distraction and relief from unpleasant realities, especially by seeking entertainment or engaging in fantasy.
I'm not using it as a distraction or relief from my realities because they are not unpleasant. I just want to experience a good story. Same way I want to eat a good calzone sometimes. Does that make my calzone escapism? You're a moron.
>>81518593
>This isn't even a thing
>I don't actually read comics
And he's called Shazam now, gramps. Also, hamburgers don't cost a nickel anymore.
>>81518344
>The difference between you and me is that you then think that pandering to this people is "right".
Pretty sure that's you projecting some shit anon.
I was never arguing from a moral standpoint, nothing right or wrong about it, just if you make Hollywood movies in the first place, yes it's literally your job to make a movie that the masses like.
Making art enjoyable to the audience that you're marketing it towards is not "pandering".
>I'd rather see people take chances and create a new kind of story
That's a lie and you know it you huge poser. Jesus fuck if that was true you'd go to film festivals and read indie comics, you wouldn't be here defending the artistic value of some souleless piece of pure Hollywood hackery adapted from a corporate-owned IP of which the creator has been dead for decades.
>Because it is.
It really isn't. Snyder brings literally nothing new to the table.
I understand you have some precise idea of what Superman is and that the movie subverted that, that doesn't make it a good movie or even a creatively daring one.
Thor's Marvel's Supes vis a vie power levels but Cap is the character most similar
>>81518580
That was amost 40 years ago. People were cool with Supes back then and the rest is nostalgia
>>81518677
Where is it a thing?
>>81514836
Go hang out on /pol/ for a day and see if it's something that Hydra could totally go for.
It is kinda funny the logic gymnastics that people pull to convince others that BvS is not only good, but also somehow 2deep4u.
>>81518508
escapism = comfy
Period.
>>81518024
Now that you mention it, flash needs a haircut.
>>81518777
Especially since WB execs have already already backpedaled and said that the movie is "fun", "doesn't take itself too seriously" and is just an enjoyable afternoon at the movies.
>>81518189
This is an honest question, I'm not on /co/ that often, do really people give a shit about critic reviews/ratings?
Why?
BvS obviously has many, many flaws, but why care about critic ratings? What even could be a "critic" for capefilms? Why would it matter?
>>81518873
Are you just new to Earth? You can tell, /co/ likes ayy lmaos.
>>81518873
4chan is full of weak willed social outcasts who have to validate their opinions by asking others online. You tell me my man.
>>81513564
I thought it was a perfect representation of a comic book movie.
>>81518685
Yeah I don't get why people are willing to accept Cap but not Superman when they are very similar people.
>>81518682
>I understand you have some precise idea of what Superman is
Your entire argument has been based on the fact that everyone else has a precise idea of what Superman is, and therefor the movies should pander to that. So now I can't even take you seriously.
>and the movie subverted that
But it didn't, which is the wonderful part. Everyone thinks Snyderman is some kind of cynical, murderous asshole, when actually he has done nothing but his best to be a hero to the point where he gave his life to save a world that was needlessly critical of him. That's Superman, more so than a guy who has parades thrown for him every day.
>>81518732
Right now. In Justice League. It's one of the better things Johns has introduced, and unfortunately it's not getting a lot of precedence, even in Cyborg's solo book. In fact, I think they even had them fight each other in that for some reason.
>>81518508
The greatest thing fiction can do is escapism. There's nothing wrong with escapism in itself.
Obviously, if it's not moderated and disrupts your other goals , it's bad, but that's true about everything.
>>81513897
That's because DC comics can't write a faithful adaptation to Batman or Superman into a film unless it's animated. Whoever wrote the script for BvS just gorged on Dark Knight Returns, shat it out, and served it on a platter thinking people would just gobble it down becusse of 2darkNDeep4U
I could write you a dark enough script for a Question movie and still have enough humor and snark to pass as a Marvel movie, and rake in the cash. Fact is, DC doesn't give a shit. And when SS tanks like a fucking rock, watch them cancel the whole idea of even attempting a Justice Leauge movie
>>81518977
The difference is Superman hasn't had a good movie in decades
>>81519022
Right?
>>81518873
>This is an honest question, I'm not on /co/ that often, do really people give a shit about critic reviews/ratings?
It's less to do with the actual content more then even the biggest anti-Snyder shitposter wasn't expecting a public reception this toxic.
Most were at worst expecting another MoS, something that strongly divided the fanbase. No one expected the movie to get worse reviews than Paul Blart: Mall Cop.
>>81519010
>Whoever wrote the script for BvS just gorged on Dark Knight Returns, shat it out, and served it on a platter thinking people would just gobble it down becusse of 2darkNDeep4U
But it was nothing like DKR except for the fact that Batman wore the armor and fought Superman.
>>81518950
Wouldn't a "social outcast" have a more "fuck what others think" mentality?
Being a social outcast and trying to find validation through external means strikes me as an oxymoron.
It's not like the "critics" are a sophisticated elite of cinema, such people would never bother with capeflicks. The "critics" are like the gaming journos, pseudo intellectual nobodies with a failure to create something of their own yet hellbent on being relevant to the industry.
>>81518925
New to /co/. I'm mostly from/a/and I used to come here only forInjusticethreads.
And cheesecake. Got to have cheesecake.
>>81514811
cause it wasnt funny
>>81518979
>Right now. In Justice League.
Oh, new 52 reader. You're one of those. I should've known because
>Shazam
>>81518873
Because
1. it gives a general indicator of the quality of the movie. It's not exact, good movies can get bad review and bad movies get good reviews all the time, but bad reviews show that there are at least a lot of people who thought the movie was bad
2. More importantly, they can be a big factor in the future of movies. They often correlate to, and effect, the box office the movie makes, and that, coupled with reviews and public opinion, determines whether any more movies are made in this series, whether the people who worked on it will continue to get work, whether future movies will try to react to criticism and be different because of it, that sort of thing. BvS is big. It's failure is super huge news for the future of the DC cinematic universe, and a pretty big deal for the future of super hero movies as a whole. Marvel movies are still super financially successful, DC tried to do something different and failed horribly. That means we're probably going to be getting a lot more films like Marvel.
>>81518677
> Does that make my calzone escapism?
yes
It's just fat that carbs that you will never need in that volume.
You want it for pleasure of it and nothing else.
>>81518777
it does honestly seem to be 2deep4 some people when they need to be spoonfed to even understand shit that's blatantly obvious.
>>81518977
For me I prefer Cap because he is not as powerful. Him being one of the weaker heroes and yet still having a firm stance on his ideals and morals makes gives it more impact. The fact that he can still get respect and awe from others despite him not being that strong makes him a much cooler character.
>>81519022
And this too I suppose
>>81519171
Such as?
>Shazam
He's a different version of the character, and that's what he's called, so that's what I call him. Did you seriously not read Curse of Shazam by Johns, just because it was "not muh"? Jesus.
>>81519144
>You want it for pleasure of it and nothing else.
But that is not escapism. Escapism would be if I wanted it as a distraction. Pleasure is not always a distraction.
>>81518979
>Your entire argument has been based on the fact that everyone else has a precise idea of what Superman is, and therefor the movies should pander to that. So now I can't even take you seriously.
Why? Are you not people?
>Everyone thinks Snyderman is some kind of cynical, murderous asshole, when actually he has done nothing but his best to be a hero to the point where he gave his life to save a world that was needlessly critical of him. That's Superman
No that's Jesus. Superman/Clark does shit besides just acting heroically, he actually interacts with people (not just his gf) and behaves like a human being.
>>81519090
>Wouldn't a "social outcast" have a more "fuck what others think" mentality?
Some of them might. Others would probably want to fit in but are shunned, so they turn online to find acceptance.
>>81519195
such as why 'martha' gave batman pause
>>81519133
1 is a straight up lie, if 2 is true I weep for the industry. Through user reviews or somehow measuring the public opinion to determine if it's worth to make a sequel I can understand, but critic reviews?
Ew. That's plain stupid. Unless it's done because you assume the public will judge if a movie is good based on critics.
Which brings us back to weeping.
>>81519234
People can understand that and still think it's stupid.
>>81519234
Man, that was so dumb. Why would he want to suddenly not kill Superman just because their moms have the same name? Fuckin' Snyder.
>>81519079
>Superman getting hit with a nuke and absorbing solar radiation to regenerate from a zombie looking scrub
>I'll kill her man, believe me!"
>"....I believe you"
>>81514244
Whenever he speaks, he barely seems literate. Like, I realize that some people, even smart people, just come across that way because they aren't good at communicative skills or have anxiety issues. But the movies Snyder makes don't lead me to believe that he has a sharp mind behind it all. He really seems like a simpleton.
I can't find it anymore, but can anybody find that video where an interviewer asks him if Superman is a virgin, and Snyder is like "wow that is a very philosophical question that our movie (MOS) subtly wrestles with"?
In that same video, when asked about his interpretation of Superman, all he could really say was "I wanted to make Superman, like, really awesome, because I like when Superman is awesome and stuff. He should be awesome."
>>81519278
those are all just superficial references. Nothing from the actual story was copied.
>>81518677
nice cherry picking there
>Escapism is mental diversion by means of entertainment or recreation, as an "escape" or dissociation from the perceived unpleasant, boring, arduous, scary, or banal aspects of daily life. It can also be used as a term to define the actions people take to help relieve persisting feelings of depression or general sadness.
your life must be pure shit if you have insecurities about seeing any form of entertainment as escapism because spoilersthat's all entertainment is, it's escapism from boring and mundane if you claim neither effect you then you are lying out your ass
>>81519195
see
>>81519272
though I'm sure he was just being facetious
>>81519360
How can you think that it isn't dumb as fuck?
>>81519321
>retired, tired, older Batman
>has to fight Superman because of manipulations
No anon, what you mean is that no themes from DKR were used, and themes are what really made that comic good, so...
Also, thanks captcha.
>>81519216
>Pleasure is not always a distraction
they are cut from the same cloth ultimately. You are viewing distraction as a negative when the reality is that's what most things including a calzone are. You want it because it will lessen stress in other ways. Otherwise why eat something that's going to make you fat?
>>81517135
Cross was a crazy psychopath from the offset but after getting killed by the bug zapper he becomes far worse. Like at the beginning of the movie his motivations were "make hella bank and get my revenge on Pym" and after being killed (then shocked back to life) it goes to "FUCK SCOTT LANG. I AM GONNA KILL THAT MOTHERFUCKER"
>>81516411
It's hard to say what WB/DC's "formula" is, because there aren't a lot of films to make patterns from.
Right now, we have the Nolan trilogy, in which Nolan got a lot of creative freedom and didn't have WB breathing down his neck, and he's a competent filmmaker, so it turned out good.
Then we have Green Lantern, which feels like it was rushed and the director just stopped giving a shit.
Then we have Snyder shit, which feels like WB told him "make it Nolany." And Snyder sucks as a filmmaker and the film feels like it was created by focus groups anyway so it was just the worst of all possible worlds.
>>81517142
>Green Lantern
>Better than anything you listed
nah
I'd also put IM2 above Snyder-verse too, purely for Tony and Rhodey fighting back to back
>>81515592
>>81515640
Sears had a huge tie in and distributed cheap little movie tie in "comics".Former employee
>>81513925
>I dare you to find anything memorable about Ant-man
The flash back scenes where luis is doing all the voices alone are memorable and don't even involve ant-man.
Also the inside the briefcase fight with yellowjacket when he accidentally siris a cure album by saying hes going to disintegrate ant-man.
>>81513564
>Where were you when BvS turned out to be so bad it might buckle the entire studio?
Ignores:
> abysmal run of expensive underperformers including Jupiter Ascending, Pan, and In the Heart of the Sea
Stop with your company wars bullshit, OP. WB is starting in the same position that Disney was before it bought Marvel and Lucasfilm.
Before the Marvel movies, Disney had a long string of huge flops:
>Sorcerer's Apprentice
>Prince of Persia
>John Carter
>Lone Ranger
>Mars Needs Moms
ITT a bunch of people wish for a company to go bankrupt because it didn't pander to them.
>>81518677
>I just want to experience a good story.
So why don't you make one happen? Why must you experience a fictional one? Surprise motherfuck, you want the escapism of a good story told to you rather than make one yourself.
>>81519670
I honestly think Suicide Squad will help DC/Warner pull through. There's a much more positive reaction for SS's trailers than BvS's. Plus there's that unknown character factor that Marvel movies have.
>>81519686
>ITT a bunch of people wish for a bad director to be removed because he can't make a good narrative.
>ITT a bunch of people wish for a company to make their childhood heroes great on the big screen
>ITT a few shitposters and retards just want to kick dirt and call attention to themselves.
>>81519838
>bad, good, great
all subjective terms
Bad director, I wish it was good, I want it to be great are synonymous with "it doesn't pander to my tastes".
>>81517142
You should kill yourself.
>>81519893
>my taste is anything WB pulls out of their ass
>>81513564
>You're insane if you think it won't easily cross a billion!
I knew it was gonna be shit from the start and I'm still surprised at how poorly it's doing financially. Having both Supes and Bats in one film should be a license to print money regardless of quality, which really shows you how badly they screwed the pooch.
BvS really does make me appreciate what a successful singular artistic vision the Nolan Trilogy was. Could you imagine what Snyder's version of these scenes would look like?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPncg5CBwhc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnOLhXmhkyA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvwTx1UWswQ
>>81519893
>subjective
All art criticism is subjective and has been for all of human history. There has never been or never will be an "objective" critique of a movie.
>>81519670
whoa clam down, for someone seeing this as company wars you seem the most sensitive to how people talk about this news.
And the link was talking about the studio doing the cape films which could buckle up pretty hard if things don't turn around soon, you are not going to keep releasing shitty movies hurting your IP constantly. Taking your Disney notice that they have put a hold on a lot of their original live action stuff for a good while now. Those string of failures lead to a change in the studio where the live action stuff is either remade Disney classics or bought licenses like SW and Marvel.
>>81519893
>plays the subjective card
work on your bait anon
>>81519942
Anon, I never said I thought BvS was great. It had parts I liked, it had parts I didn't like and I think a 10 year old could have easily not made the mistakes it had.
I just thought>>81519838
was wrong. There's no such thing as objectively good/bad.
>>81519957
>Having both Supes and Bats in one film should be a license to print money regardless of quality
should it? because i never heard much praise for the comics
>>81519434
sure, but it's still not slowly losing it, it's him going from pretty nutty psycho to completely crazy town cuckoo with very little wait in the middle.
>>81518344
There are characters in the dceu? Where? Point to more than one
>>81519893
>just because someone thinks something is shit doesnt mean they should ask not to be given more
>>81516761
Kingdom Come movie would bomb horribly. People would criticize the tone, the violence, the deaths, the characterizations and so on.
>>81514926
>a flashback from the previous movie through the eyes of another character has more tension
Boy you DCucks have a million excuses
>>81520003
Are you twelve? Some uneducated NEET? There are formulas and structures to good narrative, writing, and directing
They exist.
On a pragmatic level there are objectively good and bad formulas in film making.
You can sit and spin pouring out "everything is art nothing can be good or bad" but the fact of it is there are rules and formulas to it.
Now you liking those things or not liking them goes into that argument you are stupidly trying to make but yes someone can be a bad writer, a bad director, a bad story teller.
It's all in the realms beyond personal preference.
>>81520013
Nobody gives a shit about the comics. Comic readers dont make up a big enough percentage of the audience to matter. but batman and superman are the two most well known super heroes since the genre was a thing and two of the most well known characters in modern human history. Batman films have been hugely successful almost without exception. So yeah having the two biggest comic book characters ever in a film together for the first time should have been rather a big deal financially without much effort.
>>81520080
Have you ever fucking read Kingdom Come? I can't tell if you're that stupid or just repeating what others say
>>81519665
That Siri bit was one of the most cringey jokes in the movie. Felt completely forced in a "hey we haven't had a joke in fifteen minutes, we need to lighten up the mood, stat!" way. Almost as bad as when they did that stupid cut back to the giant ant running around for some easy laughs during the climax.
>>81520180
But mixing two things that are good doesn't mean that the result will be good.
>An agent tells THR that this sort of situation is inexcusable. They say that the film features "two of the most iconic characters in history," yet won't come close to the $1.67 billion that a film like JURASSIC WORLD made last year- a sequel/relaunch that came 14 years after JURASSIC PARK 3 effectively killed the franchise. "You can't tell me BATMAN V SUPERMAN is so much less valuable [than JURASSIC WORLD]" they said.
Oh man, I didn't even think JW was all that great but the fact that it came out of literally nowhere and topped both Marvel and DC is hilarious
>>81519838
So you're calling BvS and objectively bad film because it wasn't your personal fantasy of what the perfect Batman and Superman crossover film would be? You start from the position where BvS cannot ever be redeemed because anyone who sees something coherent or good in it must be a liar or less intelligent and perceptive than you and therefore wrong. That's not healthy.
It is not surprising that you'd bring up your childhood, as you've regressed to childlike reasoning in order to maintain the position that BvS is bad.
>>81520003
Then there's nothing stopping Hollywood from making more Fant4stic-tier capeshit if there's no one to tell them they're shit
>>81520192
People would judt bitch how Superman failed to save all those people when the super army gets decimated, or him giving up and retiring. Or how it's wrong for Superman story to be so dark and serious. You just know they would.
>>81520233
It's already been proven to be good in other stories. The problem is they had a shit director attempt to put the two together. And whether or not it was good, it only needed to be 'good enough' to not make people hate the film. It wasn't even that.
>>81520192
I have and the audiences wouldn't want to see the Joker killing Lois nor Superman abandoning the world in grief. Then wouldn't want to see a decrepit Batman controlling Gotham with Bat-Robots as if it was a Totalitarian state. They wouldn't want to see a Blood-thirsty Wonder Woman who wants to kill prisoners and is only redeemed when Superman pumps a few babies in her. They wouldn't want to see violent and extremist heroes fighting among themselves causing collateral damage and deaths while the public support them because they get the job done. They wouldn't want to see known heroes and the new heroes fighting among themselves in a war that leaves 80% dead thanks to a nuke the gov send.
They wouldn't want to see any of that shit.
>>81520261
>projecting that much
It was a poorly flesh out story with horrible motives and ridiculous plot hooks. Choppy pacing and a confused narrative.
Hell if you lighten the tone it be on par with the Adam West Bat-man film in terms of pacing and plot.
And I never grew up with DC. I have never liked DC but I wanted a DC film universe both for the fans and because good competition leads to better qualities in all cape films
Snyder just gave Disney cape films on a sliver platter
>>81519809
It's going to do better than BvS on Harley alone. I think people are underestimating how Harley obsessed every single girl who has ever walked by a comic store in a mall or seen their boyfriend play a video game are. They pay to see the movie just to keep up the "I'm into this stuff to" facade
>>81520080
It would mostly bomb because it's a meta piece about 90s comics.
>>81520233
No one's arguing that it would necessarily be good no matter what, but that mixing two things that are so well known and that people have wanted to see onscreen together for so long should have made money regardless.
>>81520331
>>81520289
You have no idea what you're talking about
Kingdom Come is a story that asks if it's necessary for superheroes and shit to be always so dark and negative. The story presents a deranged world that slowly has to go back to it's more heatlhy roots, so to say. The dark elements are there as a contrast to the lighthearted and hopeful ones
BvS doesn't have that contrast
Hell, if they'll ever make a Kingdom Come movie it'll be an answer to the negativity that's characterizing the last two DCEU entries. Even if unintentional on the producers' and director's part people would take it that way. A Kindgom Come movie right now would by all means have the same role for the WB movies that the original had back then for comics in general
But of course you have to tell yourselves that people only dislike BvS because they're too used quips and goofy characters, so according to that mindset every movie with a bit of death and sadness would be critically panned. You people unironically argue that the audience/critics would hate fucking TDK if it came out too day
If it makes you sleep well at night...
>>81520034
You can ask for whatever you like , but it's more accurate to do it on "give me more of stuff I like instead of stuff I dislike" instead on "give me more good stuff instead of bad stuff".
>>81520161
the standards for structure , writing , directing and so on come from preference too. There's nothing objective about them. The preference being shared by many (or all) people or from people more involved in a field doesn't make it any less of a preference.
>>81520601
The content would also trigger a lot of people.
Like The Dark Knight Returns. Even if Snyder had done a 100% faithful retelling critics would hate this movie. Fucking Batman going all Mussolini/Hitler by creating a militia of angry and violent teens to despose of the democracy?
It would create enormous butthurt.
>>81520475
>I wanted a DC film universe both for the fans
That has nothing to do with good filmmaking. Absolutely nothing.
>Snyder just gave Disney cape films on a sliver platter
You're somehow more invested in a financial battle between Disney and WB than Warner Bros is, since they allowed a director to do what he wanted rather than make a safe cashgrab by copying Marvel or whatever. This is why I said the whole thing is disheartening, a production company cares more about artistic integrity of film than the audiences, and is punished for it.
>>81520206
You think that was for laughs? I thought that was just a "clever" way they found to put in a famous music in a moment they thought was fitting.
>>81520651
>Kingdom Come is a story that asks if it's necessary for superheroes and shit to be always so dark and negative. The story presents a deranged world that slowly has to go back to it's more heatlhy roots, so to say. The dark elements are there as a contrast to the lighthearted and hopeful ones
It doesn't matter what it is about. What matters is that people don't want to see the Joker kill fucking Lois Lane or Wonder Woman being a bloodthirsty who fights with Superman because she wants to murder prisoners and is only redeemed after Superman gives her a good fucking.
>BvS doesn't have that contrast
It does, right at the end, and it didn't mattered one bit.
>Hell, if they'll ever make a Kingdom Come movie it'll be an answer to the negativity that's characterizing the last two DCEU entries. Even if unintentional on the producers' and director's part people would take it that way. A Kindgom Come movie right now would by all means have the same role for the WB movies that the original had back then for comics in general
People wouldn't like it because the first half would be filled with problematic content that normal viewers aren't accustomed with. You'd also have fans saying that they didn't wanted an Elseworlds type of story in movie form but the classical version of these characters and that they never liked Kingdom Come. Seriously, you might be a fan of this story but there are a lot of fans that doesn't like it.
I haven't even gone over the fact that the comic is filled with obscure characters that would leave audiences and critics alike confused.
>>81520680
You're completely delusional if you think any of this is driven by artistic integrity. They let Snyder make his own movie because they thought it would make more money that way.
Making something different in tone from the concurrence also has nothing to do with good filmmaking either, you're definding Zack Snyder's (lol) artistic integrity, not the actual quality of his movie.
>>81520938
>You're completely delusional
Actually I'm simply not being cynical.
>>81520679
Maybe, but it may manage to actually be entertaining and worth defending artistically.
>>81515483
He was troubled with the fact that people were treating him like a divine being or as an answer to their dreams and beliefs.
>>81519893
>>81520672
It's not about wanting more of what I like, it's about getting a good or bad movie overall
>>81520835
Not the guy you're replying to , but Kingdom Come takes place after a lifetime of "classical" Supes heroic and he's a tired old man, it's clearly set in a different context in-story than something that takes places right after an origin story.
Like Kingdom Come or even something like BvS would probably work after a succesful franchise of "classical" Supes.
>>81521031
Yeah well that's really delusional when it comes to Hollywood and its producers.
They don't give 500 millions to a film because they think it's artistically daring, that's not what their job is.
>>81520835
Everything you're saying only wouldn't work because Kingdom Come the comic came in after ages of comics history. Joker killing Lois WAS supposed to be shocking and outraging, that's what the story is about. In Whatever Happened to the man of tomorrow lots of major characters die, and that's because it was supposed to be the closure of an era, and it worked that way
A Kingdom Come movie would be hard to adapt because in movies we don't have that kind of history, and casuals of course aren't familiar enough with comics. An eventual failure wouldn't be about the darkness in the story like you'd love to think. Where was the backlash against GotG featuring women dying of cancer? Where was the backlash against IM3 for talking about terrorism and the role of fear in politics? Where was the backlash against DofP for showing so many characters dying horribly in a dystopian future? Where was the backlash against Deadpool for featuring "mean spirited" humour?
You know what other kind of story was hard to pull off without some history behind it? Batman v Superman
Superman dying especially wasn't earned at all, it was his second appearance for crying out loud
Superman and Batman fighting wasn't earned either, it was barely there in the first place, they literally fight because of misconceptions, the fact that it had a bat-armour doesn't make it just like DKR, so it doesn't work the same way and the audience doesn't have to like it because "it was done in comics"
>>81521176
>Not the guy you're replying to , but Kingdom Come takes place after a lifetime of "classical" Supes heroic and he's a tired old man, it's clearly set in a different context in-story than something that takes places right after an origin story.
The same shit can be said about Ben Affleck's Batman and people still hated the character. It doesn't matter if Ben's Batman was once the classic Batman who's heroic and has his no kill-rule but then became a tired old man after 20 years of fighting. What matter is how he was represented in the movie and that certainly wasn't classic Batman.
>Like Kingdom Come or even something like BvS would probably work after a succesful franchise of "classical" Supes.
Now that makes more sense, but i still think that people would like even if you had like 4 Superman movies before it because at the end of the day what all those great 4 movies amounted to was a despicable scene were we get to watch the Lois we got love die violently in the hands of the Joker and then Superman leaves disappointed in humanity. People would still question what Warner Brothers thought that would be a good idea. The audience would want a happy ending. The Dark Knight Rises ended with a happy ending, why not Superman?
>>81521157
Do you understand that the criteria for what good or bad is are preference based? Or you think they fall from the sky?
>>81515895
Sounds logical. He's finishing Live by Night soon and once he's done filming JL he'll probably start on Batman.
>>81516973
If people hate Boy Scouts then why did Captain America suddenly get more popular after TWS?
>>81521176
That's the biggest problem I have with BvS. By all means, give me a movie where Superman and Batman fight, especially one inspired by TDKR. But don't make it your second installment of a shared universe, and your jumping off point for a Justice League movie. It's gotta be either a standalone Elseworlds adaptation, which I understand is a harder sell, or it's gotta be set further down the line.
>>81521365
Because he stopped being a boy scout.
>>81513925
>"Hey, you are kind of cute" and then the crazy ants proceed to swarm Ant-man.
>"ANT-ONY!"
>Mexican Horn.
>"Back it up"
>>81521279
>A Kingdom Come movie would be hard to adapt because in movies we don't have that kind of history, and casuals of course aren't familiar enough with comics. An eventual failure wouldn't be about the darkness in the story like you'd love to think. Where was the backlash against GotG featuring women dying of cancer? Where was the backlash against IM3 for talking about terrorism and the role of fear in politics? Where was the backlash against DofP for showing so many characters dying horribly in a dystopian future? Where was the backlash against Deadpool for featuring "mean spirited" humour?
See >>81521355.
People would still hate the movie. In these movies the guys always win in the end. In Kingdom Come the good guys doesn't win. The heroes are in their lowest point, people die in horrifying fashion and the whole thing ends with everybody agreeing that shit was fucked so let's try to not fuck things up like that ever again. Superman does go back with Lois or something like that. Shazam isn't back from the dead. Nobody went back in time to change things.
>>81521355
>people still hated the character.
Not really though, besides the "why does he kill" fags the praise has been almost universal.
>because at the end of the day what all those great 4 movies amounted to was a despicable scene were we get to watch the Lois we got love die violently in the hands of the Joker and then Superman leaves disappointed in humanity. People would still question what Warner Brothers thought that would be a good idea. The audience would want a happy ending. The Dark Knight Rises ended with a happy ending, why not Superman?
But Kingdom Come did have a happy ending, it's not like the Joker killing Lois is how the story ends anon. Fuck even BvS had an ending that was happier than how it started.
I think you're making a lot of conjecture because some people didn't like a movie you liked, and therefor people are stupid.
>>81513897
i will give SS a chance
and will drop the DCCU if it's as bad as BvS
>>81521361
There's a reason why movies with different formulas and new ideas get praised even if they never intended to pander to a specific "taste"
For instance, I never expected to enjoy MoS even though it didn't pander to the same trend in Superman movies of lighthearted themes and more colorful tones
>>81521516
You're just repeating the same things over and over
Kingdom Come did have an happy ending. Just shut the fuck up and accept people didn't like you're barely functional "masterpiece"
>>81521707
Some people have a taste for novelty.
>>81514255
Dark Knight happened before the MCU poisoned the well. Anyone who wants to argue the post you're responding to, though, should take it up with the critics whining about how dark BvS was. Those were their words; they could've complained about any flaw in the film but they swarmed to "no humor" like flies to shit.
>>81521641
>>81521748
Lois is dead. Most the known heroes are dead. Where's the happy ending?
You guys said that Kingdom Come might work if we had several movies with the classical version of the characters. I disagree. People don't want to see a sad ending where they followed Superman and Lois romance only for her end up dead in the next movie.
GotG ended with the characters recognized as heroes, IM3 ended with Tony overcoming his fears and finally be together with Pepper Pots, DoFP ended with Wolverine changed the bad past and setting a future where everybody is alive, Deadpool ended with him and Copycat together.
I'm not even defending BvS, dude. BvS is a shitty movie, but so would a Kingdom Come movie.
>>81514639
>I feel like The Caped Crusader was too positive and lighthearted, like thry were trying to apply the formula of the Man of Tomorrow trilogy to Batman. It just didn't work.
>>81521961
I would go as far to say that Kingdom Come share the same problems as BvS.
Kingdom Come really isn't a good comic. Most of DC's darker comics that serve as a reactionary commentary on the industry wouldn't work as comics. They're good as comics because they don't affect the main canon and are interesting what ifs, but to see them as movies? Nah.
>>81522109
In continuity stories rarely seem to have happy endings. They have bittersweet endings, partly because they set up the next conflict in a never-ending series of conflicts. I, along with many reviewers, was surprised when Azz's first arc in Wonder Woman had a happy one, and then of course the proceeding one featured Wonder Woman forced into killing her mentor.
>>81521961
And KC ends with the heroes renconciling and taking again the role of moral paragons. Of course the negative stuff of the story couldn't be magically undone, but the future was bright, that's an happy ending
And no, i don't think the ending is comparable to BvS' if that's what you want to argue, it's definetly not a cheery. BvS ends with dead Clark and Batman and WW deciding to put together the JL to prepare protect the world from even more death and destruction
>>81521961
But we're not talking about quality here, you're saying it's impossible to sell a cape movie that doesn't have a 100% happy ending to audiences.
I don't believe that.
The day is saved is usually as much as it takes to qualify as a happy ending in action movies anyway.
>>81522109
Maybe, that's fair.
It's weird though because movies *are* what ifs, they're just just what ifs that have to start their universe all over because they speak to a new audience.
Well sort of, concerning characters like Supes and Bats, which have a big mainstream presence over the years.
>>81522357
Not all heroes, only those three, and that is still a bittersweet ending that would a lot of people feeling empty and sad.
The fact that Superman and Wonder Woman ended up together in end would also upset people. That ending has been one of the worst aspects of that comic. Critics and fans alike have been criticizing WW role in the comic for ages.
>>81522517
>The fact that Superman and Wonder Woman ended up together in end would also upset people. That ending has been one of the worst aspects of that comic. Critics and fans alike have been criticizing WW role in the comic for ages.
It's the first time i hear any of this
But then again there's people that think the point of DKR's ending was to humiliate Superman and everything he stands for, so it wouldn't surprise me if someone somewhere found anything to bitch about in KC
>>81522621
Even Mark Waid admitted he wrote a shit Diana in KC. She was pretty poorly characterized.
>>81522621
Lots of people hate Wondy in Kingdom Come to the point where even Mark Waid came out and said he fucked things up in that regard.
People don't like that she wasn't the voice of reason, that she was extremist and bloodthirsty, that she wanted to torture and execute Gurlag's prisoners, that she had to be schooled both by Superman and Batman, and that she only became more optimistic after Superman pumped a few babies in her.
>>81521771
So people who enjoy MoS also like Fant4stic by default?
>>81522517
>That ending has been one of the worst aspects of that comic.
Well, yes.
It's supposed to be Batman and Diana, Clark and Lois, and the absence of Lois should disrupt BxD.
>>81522109
>I would go as far to say that Kingdom Come share the same problems as BvS.
>Kingdom Come really isn't a good comic. Most of DC's darker comics that serve as a reactionary commentary on the industry wouldn't work as comics. They're good as comics because they don't affect the main canon and are interesting what ifs, but to see them as movies? Nah.
Mark Waid himself said that kingdom come is a cautionary tale, it isn't suppossed to be a movie.
>>81522357
>And no, i don't think the ending is comparable to BvS' if that's what you want to argue, it's definetly not a cheery. BvS ends with dead Clark and Batman and WW deciding to put together the JL to prepare protect the world from even more death and destruction
i'd say the kingdom comes ending can be read as malicious even,only the lives of the main characters are the ones that matter. which is something you can say about a lot of movies. how in the end the collateral damage doesn't matter to us psychologically.
while in bvs there is an acknowledgement of the effects of what batman and superman do, the movie doesn't treat these characters as perfectly fitting into the world we actually live in, personal identity in the face of the world being huge for both bruce and clark. by the end the idea is that in spite of a not perfect world it is still good to hope for something better
and don't take this as me saying bvs is the best comic movie, but i cannot get behind the bashing the movie gets because a lot of it stems from people not liking how the movie doesn't play around with how it depicts certain things
>>81523107
>>81523039
Kingdom Come wasn't even that great as a cautionary tale. It was very preach and contrived, and the character were just too... fucked up.
There are better work.
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