How come DC struggles with something as iconic as Batman whereas Marvel can make a critical success out of a c-list property like GotG?
>>81001926
DC doesn't understand tone.
>>81001926
it's most likely executive meddling. Warner handles the DC movies in house whereas marvel uses their own studio, which probably largely has people who legitimately like comics working in it. A DC studio would likely help DC a lot.
>>81001926
>C-list
>implying Guardians weren't on the same tier as Big Hero 6 in terms of recognition before their respective movies
>tfw MoS made less than z-list heroes
Batman has a fuck ton more to live up to in the eyes of the public than a character like Groot; the best rendering of Batman of all time would still be divisive because of established head-canons and hopes for the character.
>>81001926
With big-name, iconic characters, the people making the film feel like they need it to be A Very Important Film. With C-list characters there's more freedom to experiment, because it needs to stand out to make money.
Blame Nolan.
Are you kidding me? The successful Batman movies outnumber the failures.
DC fags on suicide watch and have to give up their shoelaces and belts.
>>81002089
This.
Marvel changed a *looot* of things in GotG, but they knew what worked in the comics, what made it popular (within comics community at least), and how to translate that to the big screen. At least people on here loved the shit out of DnA Marvel Cosmic back then.
See: why Deadpool movie worked (not Marvel Studios, but still, the same point).
However, their movies seem a little on repeat lately. Specifically, I hated Ant-Man, since despite its original premise, it was like a repeat of their earlier films.
On the other hand... very often I get this while reading their comics. So yeah.
>>81002216
His films have their faults, but I think there a lot of people too young to remember how poisonous Batman was as a film property after Batman & Robin.
>>81001926
C-listers are easier to write for.
I think it's because they are lesser known that they can be more successful. For example MoS and Returns where constantly compared to the Donner movies which probably affected them negatively since people had preconceived notions of what a Superman movie should be. I bet that if they make a GoG reboot down the line in another 30 years people will shit on it for not being like the one we got.
>>81001926
the Avengers wasn't ever really as big Spider-man or the X-men. Ironman was a B lister with like 3 good stories before the movie.You think anybody remembered those awful Captain America tv movies with Reb Brown?There were lower expectations for the MCU. They did well with Ironman and established a lighthearted comedic tone that has been consistent throughout the established universe.
Batman and Superman each have had big movies in the past.John Williams Superman theme is iconic and people still say to this day that Nicholson was the best Joker. Preconceived notions of those characters still linger from their past films.
Rocket Raccoon fails? no big deal. Marvel has plenty of cosmic characters.
Wonder Woman fails? oh fuck! this could ruin an iconic character and a pillar of DC comics.
>>81002775
>Ironman
>Major character in Marvel since the 70s
>B-lister
Is this bait? I hope it's bait.
>>81002775
Post more AA Killer Frost.
>>81002855
read some comics /tv/
and Ironman was from the 60s
>>81002855
He really wasn't as popular as you think before the RDJ movies were a thing.
>>81002897
I was off by a decade at most, so sue me.
>>81002775
>Iron Man has three good stories
My massive Michillinie Omnis say otherwise faggot
>>81002973
Yep
I always find funny how people shouted "not my Mandarin" at Iron Man 3
While there is literally no good Mandarin story
>>81003043
so you got two of the three
be sure to get your hands on Extremis
GOTG, despite how /co/ will want to say otherwise, was pretty different from what one would expect from "capes"
>>81001926
Marvel are better at marketing, always have been. For all the shit Stan gets for "stealing" his ability as a hype man is largely responsible for the Marvel Age taking off.
>>81001926
DC is busy chasing an audience of angry teenagers, and Marvel just accepted their fate, sold to Disney, and makes movies for babies instead.
What critic wouldn't prefer the movie for babies and old people over the movie for idiot teens?
It's not like either of them are putting out movies worth watching. I think The Winter Soldier was the only one I've seen that's close to a decent movie and it was still pretty busted.
But nobody wants to hire a real director or a real writer. Executives went to business school for a long time and they're not interested in strapping their balls in a vice labeled "ART". Better to just find an aesthetic that's accepted and fit whatever you can sell into that.
Eventually this will change. Not until something flops financially, though.
>>81003128
You forgot this
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0785162038/
>>81003323
Here's your you.
>>81003408
why did you link a crappy Avengers HC?
Nobody gives a shit about whether or not a Guardians of the Galaxy is any good. That's reductive, sure, but generally true.
You said it yourself, OP, prior to the film they were purely c-list. If not d-list. This low-stakes nature gives the film makers autonomy to do basically anything with the look and feel of any prospective adaptation. And that's exactly what they did: GotG works because it prominently features James Gunn's voice.
And that's the same of every film in the MCU- RDJ is not the perfect Tony Stark because he so neatly resembles and embodies the beloved comics character; RDJ is the perfect Tony Stark because no one knew or cared who or what Tony Stark was until RDJ portrayed the character on screen.
Batman and Superman, however, are S-level pop characters. EVERYBODY knows and loves those characters, and they have for nearly the past century.
This makes it very difficult, then, to appeal to any one demographic: some people want Batman super-dark; some want him goofy. Some people want Superman to be kind-hearted and funny; some want him to be a tortured Christ figure.
Given the vast spectrum that these huge characters exist within, there's no way to give everyone the Batman or Superman film that they want. Any time you approach a character like that you're inherently going to alienate people.
>>81003128
And Haunted the best Mandarin story.
>>81003050
>While there is literally no good Mandarin story
H A U N T E D
>>81002174
Honestly, Marvel not having access to some of their big names at the time the whole cinematic universe stuff(SpiderMan, Fantasic 4, etc) kinda worked in their favor.
Their lesser known characters with less expectations to live up to, but they have to make us like the characters so they can't just half-ass it.
Meanwhile, DC can take a shit into a movie reel, stick the Batman logo on it and sell millions, with half of them claiming it's the 2nd coming of Christ, and the other half wanting to burn DC studios down the shit is the wrong shade of brown and doesn't have corn in it.
>>81001993
This. DC takes fags in capes too seriously. Grimdark superhero movies are retarded.
>>81003571
>some want him to be a tortured Christ figure.
Literally nobody wants a Superman like that.
>>81003571
>Any time you approach a character like that you're inherently going to alienate people.
But there is a way to make a consensus which is why the TDK trilogy was so popular
>>81003767
I agree. Fuck Punisher. And I hope Daredevil stays in his Netflix ghetto
>>81002855
Don't pretend anyone gave a shit about Iron Man before RDJ
>zach snyder
ITT: Expert film critics from 4chan
>>81004038
>ITT: /tv/ critics
>>81003779
Christopher Nolan, Zack Snyder, and Bryan Singer all wanted a Superman like that for some reason.
So did J Michael Straczynski when he wrote 3 very-successful volumes of the dour and terrible Superman: Earth One.
>>81003798
I mean, yeah, but people hate those films regardless.
>>81003779
Yes some of us do.
I don't give a fuck about the imagery, but I do want him to be a sci-fi god like being and I do want him complex and not a childish naive idiot.
It's why Earth One was popular enough to get 3 volumes, and I say that as someone who is extremely Meh on EO and think Clark wasn't likeable enough.
Because Marvel treats their properties as jokes becaude they know audiences think they're jokes too. People would rather see bland, safe jokey movies than pure unadulterated capeshit.
>>81004299
DC fags actually think this.
>>81004412
Jokes on you. I hate movies from both companies. I prefer just reading the comics they decide to butcher.
>>81003467
I don't follow.
people go to capeshit to escape their shitty lives
start drawing parallels to real life and it makes them uncomfortable
>>81002307
Ant-Man is actually a good example of executive meddling though.
>>81005116
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSPHc7PpkgM
>>81002973
>>81003050
bullshit, I was at best a casual and even i knew and liked iron man before RDJ. he didnt get 2 cartoons for nothing
>>81003779
you're a tard if you think that
>>81003869
>waht is marvel superheroes and marvel vs capcom
>>81001926
BvS will shit all over GOTG at the box office and rightfully so.
>>81001926
Disney toys and marketing is ruthless
"If you don't like our movies you're a loser" marvel droning
I'm So sick of it
Gotg is a cringefest I regret watching it.
>>81011698
Is this what DC has come to? Hoping they can attract more viewers than Batista and a tree?
>>81003767
Yeah Daredevil and the Punisher are the cancer that is killing marvel comics and its fandom
>>81002775
>You think anybody remembered those awful Captain America tv movies with Reb Brown
I wish I could have forgotten them.
Warner Bros seems to think audiences want to leave the theaters wishing they had hung themselves.
Since when is Guardians C-list? B-list for sure, but not C.
>>81011931
The only superhero franchise where audiences die, or wish they had.
>>81001926
lmao when has DC ever struggled with Batman?
>>81003767
>muh daredevil
You are retarded. The problem with DC is that Snyder is a hack.
>>81001926
Snyder is a hack
>>81001993
This.
>>81011938
Nigga, the Giffen's Star-Lord mini (the precursor to Guardians) was basically a bunch of C-list characters thrown together to try to solve a problem of, literally, cosmic proportions.
>>81002855
When I was a kid I knew more about War Machine than Iron Man because MvC. He started to get some casual recognition until Civil War.
>>81012201
They were in a bunch of the cartoons. It's not like Star-Lord was just some no-name.
I mean there's no D-list here. It's either well-known A-list, or in a couple of things B-list, or who-the-fuck C-list. Cmon, man.
>>81002307
>Marvel changed a *looot* of things in GotG, but they knew what worked
Let's not pretend that Marvel doesn't have a formula that they applied to GotG as well. You hate Ant-Man for being formulaic, but not GotG? I don't understand your logic.
Just because the cast and setting were different, doesn't mean GotG was unique among Marvel's library of comedies.
>>81012315
>It's not like Star-Lord was just some no-name.
But he was. Just because in Universe he was the legendary hero whose mythos inspires a bunch of soldiers (retconned btw, thanks Bendis), it doesn't mean it was like that in real life. I love Peter Quill, but until Annihilation, no one gave or knew a shit about him.
For casuals, who didn't even knew Annihilation was a thing, they were Z-listers. I think that was the initial appeal of the movie: "the mighty Marvel is making a movie 'bout a bunch of literally whos? which include a fucking talking Raccoon, a walking Tree, a Wrestler, a NiGreen Chick and that funny guy from that TV show? I gotta see that!" then it changed to "Marvel finds a way!!"
GOTG was a shit movie, as a Marvel fan since birth...that movie was a fucking abortion that appealed to normalfags only
Yes I am saying if you liked GOTG, you are a normalfag
>>81012469
Nice opinion.
>>81012469
Nah. You have no taste m8. Pretty good movie.
>>81012469
You and me, dance off right now
>>81001926
It's precisely because Batman is iconic, and has been done iconically so many times already. Every new director that takes it on HAS to do it differently, because directors are special snowflakes who secretly hate working on established IPs want to be renowned for their unique "vision", so they change things up and desperately reach for a way to do it "differently" than every prior incarnation, but there's only so many ways you can do a mythos properly before you're just grasping at straws and it's all shit.
Now we only need CW to fail so the Super Hero bubble finally bursts, so comics can be great again.
Everything is going according to the keikaku.
>>81002169
>same tier as Big Hero 6 in terms of recognition
You mean that cgi movie that disney had? You're saying that was popular before its movie?
>>81002855
He was.
>A-List: Everyone knows them
>B-List: Everyone who's even a little nerdy knows them
>C-List: Most nerds know them
>D-List: Few people know them.
>Z-List: Literally who.
Iron Man before RDJ was definitely B-List at best.
>>81012518
If you're my mom, sure thing queer
>>81012800
Iron Man was an A lister in the 90s, C or less in the 00s or at least until Civil War happened
>>81002169
Prior to the films, GOTG was more recognizable than Big Hero 6 within comics readers, though.
>>81012904
Iron Man was a B-Lister since his inception.
The only A-listers Marvel had until the Movies boom were Spiderman, Wolverine and the X-Men as a team.
>>81001926
DC keeps trying to force the idea that they are gods, like literally gods. It makes them hard to relate to, and not in the god-problem kind of way but in that everything is so forced its repellent kind of way. There isn't anything natural nor is there any sense of self awareness.
>>81012924
And the Hulk.
>>81001993
>>81003767
>bat-nipples and a hun making terrible ice-puns onscreen nonstop
SO SRS
>>81002169
Well, not really. GotG had an ongoing at the time while BH6 just had two minis decades ago.
But both where in the realm of things only comic nerds know.
>>81012949
And the Hulk it is.Marvel even did some shorts featuring Spider-Man and the Hulk along with Iron Man to make him more recognizable prior his movie.
>>81012978
>>81012949
Isn't Hulk basically just Dr.Jekyll and Mr.Hyde?
>>81013006
Yes, characters in media are all the same but in a different color.
>>81002775
>Wonder Woman fails? oh fuck! this could ruin an iconic character and a pillar of DC comics.
Actually WW isn't that popular. DC keeps putting her everywhere because if they don't they risk losing rights to the character.
>>81012924
Nah, that isn't true at all. You're too young to remember the 90's is all. How old are you, early 20s? You primarily grew up in the 00s
>>81001993
>>81003767
a movie needs serious and dark elements as contrast for the light-hearted parts.
GotG has the Accountant, who basically just spends the entire movie crawling in his skin.
The problem is when both your pro- and antagonist spend all their time moping around in an essentially black and white movie, it's just like, why.
DC has so many colorful characters, they shouldn't be afraid to use them. Remember when Raz al ghoul was an immortal drug wizard?
>>81012469
I agree
>>81013038
Her failing certainly hurts DC more than if GotG failed at that time.
>>81003779
He literally tried to sacrifice himself for humanity in MoS and he was raised to use this 'special gift' for terrible and primitive humankind.
You can't get more transparent. But everyone but DC agrees that they don't want Superman like that.
>>81013058
>iron man
>popular in the 90s
Nigger, the 90s were all about the Xtreme-Men.
There is a reason why everybody remembers Spider-Man TAS and X-Men TAS, but only some people remember Iron Man ever had a show.
>>81013038
wait why would they lose her?
It's not like the Marvel/Sony thing where two parties want to claim ownership of her, is it?
>>81013006
Yeah, except his casual enemy and maid would have become Mr. Hydes at some point and they'd fight alot.
Why does Marvel suck ass at giving their A-listers decent movies?
>>81013131
The original contract was that if they stopped printing a WW comic the right would go back to his estate. That's what I recall offhand.
So they pimp wonder woman both to prevent a sausage fest and to hopefully make their WW comic profitable enough to justify their death grip on the IP.
>>81013177
Because Wolverine and Spider-Man were at other studios.
>>81013177
They don't have the rights to them lol
>>81013078
Good man
>>81013118
X and Spider-Man were the most popular, that is for certain, but in the grande scheme of Marvel they weren't the only ones. Even Ghost Rider was A lister in the 90's, as was Punisher and Venom. Cap, Hulk, and Iron Man were A listers as far as the Marvel universe goes. The other Avengers, no.
>>81013131
>>81013211
The sad part is that WW is the most recognizable female super hero of all times.
>>81013177
Because they suck at making decent movies. Period.
>>81013241
Isn't she basically just a boring Bayonetta?
Like, what's her character, other than lesbian bondage snu snu?
>>81013229
By that Logic Carol Danvers is an A-listers and the Sentry was an A-lister when he was alive. They were being pushed hard and were important in-universe, but they are still B-list for the readers
Ghost Rider, Venom, Frank and the edge crew were just the flavor of the month, just like how Whor, Kamala and FalCap are right now. If anything they were high B-listers at their peak.
>>81013278
>Like, what's her character, other than lesbian bondage snu snu?
This, WW doesn't have an actual character, she's just a walking collection of whatever "muh strong wymyn" tropes the author clumsily thinks people want at any given time.
>>81013290
Honestly I'm not sure Sentry ever qualified as B-List. He was important in universe, yes, but even among people I know who liked to read the occassional comic mentioning Sentry tends to evoke a reaction of "..who?".
>>81013391
Silly anon, that's because Sentry erased himself from the memory of everybody. Now, everybody knows he was the one who stopped Hitler, invented the internet, freed the blacks and taught Mr. Rogers how to be a good person.
>>81002973
He was pretty much the third most popular Marvel property after Spidey and X-Men in the 90's m8.
>>81013589
>He was pretty much the third most popular Marvel property after Spidey and X-Men in the 90's m8.
I'm pretty sure that was Hulk
>>81013620
Or Venom, Ghost Rider, Cable, Wolverine...
>>81013589
Bull. The Hulk, Captain America, and The Fantastic Four were all bigger.
There's no Iron Man ride at Universal Studios.
>>81002775
So why is it that dc can't make good movies?
These were the hottest Marvel properties in the 90s
Know who's not here? Iron Man? Why is War Machine here? Because he was seen as cooler than Iron Man even though he's his sidekick
>>81013821
So why can't DC make good movies?
>>81013653
Using characters from X-Men and Spider-Man is probably cheating.
But even then Iron Man doesn't place third. Or fourth. Or fifth.
The Avengers just weren't hot. It's the reason Marvel retained the rights. If they were popular, Sony or Fox or whoever would have snatched them up long ago.
>>81013252
t. butt blasted dcfag
>>81013821
Actually Iron Man is not there because yadda yadda rights problems and they put War Machine in there because he was close enough.
>>81001926
>How come DC struggles with something as iconic as Batman
The fuck are you talking about? Batman has not struggled in decades, it's one of DC's strongest properties.
>>81013821
Uh, that game was like the third sequel
