>One of the worst MARVEL events.
>Russos turning it into one of the best MARVEL movies.
Truly a great time to be alive.
Oh my god people, please stop hailing Russos as gods just because they made ONE decent movie.
People said the say thing about Whedon when he made Avengers.
Watch how people will turn on the Russos after they flop CW
>>77773895
You shouldn't really get offended m8
I'm hoping for BvS to do well also.
>>77773895
I mean, people say that about Snyder and he hasn't even made one good Superman movie yet.
>>77773924
I agree with this guy. >>77773895 Why can't you enjoy things ayynon? There are like tons of good movies coming out in 2016. Just chill.
>>77773924
>BvS
>Snyder
there we go
Mods, delete the thread. No good will come from this discussion.
>>77773822
>One of the worst MARVEL events.
This meme needs to fucking die already. Civil War was a great event at the time, the only problem is that marvel decided to run the whole hero vs hero thing into the ground afterwards.
>>77773822
C'mon, i'm a huge MCU fag, but there's no way this movie isn't going to be overcrowded as fuck. They have to introduce Zemo, Black Panther, Spiderman, Martin Freemans character to the audience and Ant-Man to the rest of the cinematic universe. Why do you think they held onto this trailer for so long?
>>77773992
It was great until the last act. Not after.
>>77773992
It made events a normie thing and to only pull in the casual audience.
When notable events from both sides were more sparingly used, instead of now yearly things.
>>77773822
Don't get your hopes up, it's just another forgettable flick like every other Marvel flick.
>>77774017
Oh, and not to forget that the entire registration thing might even be a sideplot that's shoved in so that they were able to call it Civil War.
>>77773822
Can some one explain to me what`s the deal with making these pic like OP did. I saw it being done to BvS trailers and i still don`t know the reason for it.
>>77773992
>Civil War was a great event at the time
Hahahahahaha
>>77774017
They did it pretty fucking well with TWS
How many villains were there? Last time I counted it was 5-7. And they kept tying past characters/villains from different movies.
We're at a time where we don't need OC donut steel characters to pad up a capeflick and people are bitching still.
>no spidey yet
>>77774113
>How many villains were there? Last time I counted it was 5-7
Hydra is one villain, nigga.
>>77773822
>>77773949
I like your attitudes, anons. I'll admit I've become really disillusioned with /co these last few years, but you guys give me hope (along with Flash talkbacks) that fun is still alive here.
>>77774094
It's a cinematography thing.
It's taking the whole trailer/movie and splitting it up into parts, all divided equally I believe, with it's running time. And screenshots during each part.
It's to see what kind of vision the director had, or if they had little at all.
Someone might have The Avengers and it's quite horrible looking.
Man, RDJ is looking OLD compared to his first appearance as Iron Mang.
Also, Chris Evan's hunky arms are amazing in that last panel.
>>77774037
>It made events a normie thing
You say that like it's a bad thing. this whole "Muh sekret klub" thing you fags keep perpetuating is part of the reason comics are a dying medium. As such publishers feel the need to continue to try stupid stuff in order to attract new readers.
>>77774113
Did you even watch TWS there was only one Hydra. The individuals didnt matter when they all worked as one.
>>77774113
Ok, fair point. Still, a lot of those characters were very minor like Balrog and Crossbones and were connected to one single plot line. This seems a little different with Bucky-plot, Hydra-plot and Registration-plot, plus most of the characters there being pretty important for Marvel to introduce. But i admit, you just gave me some hope.
>>77774180
>>77774037
>When notable events from both sides were more sparingly used, instead of now yearly things
That's a reflection of the stupidity of the publisher not the quality of this particular story.
>>77773822
>One of the best MARVEL events.
>Russos turning it into one of the best MARVEL movies.
FTFY
>>77774143
I was thinking of that joke. But here's a rundown.
Batroc
Winter Soldier
Crossbones
Zola
Pierce
That Senator from IM2
Hydra makes it seven.
I don't believe I'm forgetting any.
>>77773992
Civil War is a good idea that Millar shat all over with his inability to write interesting dialogue. He's somewhat Frank Millerian in that he just smears his political views across what he writes.
>>77773992
>Spider-Man forced to take his mask of just to add hype to the event, something he NEVER would have done based on who he is and how much he worries about harming his loved ones
>Tony turned into a fucking Nazi who imprisons people in the Negative Zone for life if they don't sign the Act
>the entire issue of heroes inadvertently murdering innocent bystanders somehow never brought up before then, suddenly with this event it's a thing
Please. It was kinda fun at times and had its moments, but the entire premise was retarded.
>>77774273
Those were minor characters that didn't need any backstory. Black Panther, Spider-Man and Zemo are major characters that are getting shoehorned into this movie for no reason at all.
>>77774184
I think he's talking about how events happen every year.
instead of building it up properly, there has to be a summer event to go with a movie release or something
>>77774185
Do you even know how movies work?
Doesn't matter if it came from the same thread. Characters still need developed.
Might as well say that Star Wars only had one villain and that's the Empire.
>>77774118
you had your 5 movies and fucked em up, time to move on.
>>77774316
>but the entire premise was retarded.
No, the premise was fantastic and Tony was right. What was retarded what the things you list, which aren't the premise they are failures of writing.
>>77774273
but there was no need to explain their background and motivations.
>what's this bad guys deal?
>he's Hydra
>oh, okay then
>>77774316
>he entire issue of heroes inadvertently murdering innocent bystanders somehow never brought up before then, suddenly with this event it's a thing
I'm guessing you've never heard of the X-men before. Thats ok new friend due to legal reasons they are not a part of the MCU movies that you enjoy so much.
>>77774322
>Zemo
>Just like Barron Strucker got a back story
>>77774336
>Might as well say that Star Wars only had one villain and that's the Empire.
so are we now counting each stormtrooper as a character? Minions don't count as "characters", anon.
>>77774322
I feel Spidey is going to be the easiest, as he's the most well known. And with him they'll probably do less, with it being more. Civil War will just be sprinkled with Spidey flakes.
It won't be heavy coated.
>>77774386
>No, the premise was fantastic and Tony was wrong
FTFY
>>77774336
Do you? You clearly dont. Im hoping they explain why Black Panther and Spiderman are there on top of what the team is slipt like they are. But to be honest im expecting a talkfest like the last couple of movies.
>>77774427
I was thinking of Tarkin and Vader as the main two from the first movie.
I mean you could throw in Greedo and a few sandpeople.
>>77774481
>one of the most overused memes for Spidey is
>SPIDERMAN OUTTA FUCKING NOWHERE
>and they somehow need to explain this
>when it's been decades on decades that Marvel will throw Spidey into a different comic to bring up sales
senpai baka desu
>>77774526
Were not talking comics, im talking movies. Why is spiderman there.
>>77774202
>Balrog
Batroc?
>>77774597
Because fans demanded it.
I really hope you don't expect him to go into a full monologue about his time with Sony, the near bankruptcy of the 90s and where they're at now.
That's Deadpool's shtick of breaking the fourth wall.
>>77774481
Black Panther is probably hunting Bucky for an assassination in Wakanda, he will be the turncoat though
>>77774597
Because for some reason people still want to see him even after 3 horrible movies.
>>77774597
Why wouldn't spider-man be there? He is an active superhero with powers so like it or not he has a dog in this fight. It would make less sense for shield to ignore him and only target this heroes we have seen so far in other movies.
![1408241218883[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/JBMxyYq.jpg "1408241218883[1].jpg")
>You will live to possibly see a Giant-man/Spider-man fight
>>77773895
>Oh my god people, please stop hailing Russos as gods just because they made ONE decent movie.
*shrugs* I'm doing it more because I saw the Midas touch they laid upon Arrested Development and Community. TWS was a cherry on top.
>>77773924
>>77773934
>>77773949
You're getting yourselves overhyped for a clusterfuck of a movie.
>>77773992
Were you even here when Civil War was running?
>>77775091
>Were you even here
Yes because 4chan is totally representative of how the entire fucking world feels about a single story.
You do realize people read comic books outside of /co/ right?
>>77773822
Pfft.
>>77775363
CW looks better imo
>>77775447
Think you need to get your eyes checked.
>>77775513
>Opinions
fagit
>>77773822
aren't Marvel movies supposed to be colorful?
>>77773822
>>77775363
>>77775447
>>77775513
>>77775528
All three look great and are awesome. enough of the this company vs company shitposting.
>>77774699
*shrugs*
Maybe you should get back to Reddit? Maybe Tumblr?
*points towards the door*
>>77775447
>CW looks better imo
KEK
BvS feels like titans are about to fight, from visuals to the soundtrack. Civil War doesn't look anywhere near as good as this.
>>77775547
maybe you should go backto reddit? maybe tumblr? *fucks you in the ass*
faggot
>>77774597
To be fair, if you actually read comics or even had any interest in the hobby you'd know Spidey played a major role in Marvel's terrible Civil War event.
>>77775547
>*shrugs*
Maybe you should go to Reddit.
>>77775160
The point is that this isn't some kind of new "meme". /co/ has hated that fucking event since it was running.
>>77775547
>>77775587
Maybe you should stop samefagging.
BvS feels like a bunch of people in front of a green screen. You can tell that there is a lot more practical effects work going on with CW.
>>77775578
>>77775587
Heh... obviously... heh.... heh..... you didn't understand my point.... heh.... as expected, simple minded fools.....
*wicked psychopath smile*
Just as expected.... heh.... from Reddit...
*nods disrespectfully*
>>77775160
>You do realize people read comic books outside of /co/ right?
Yes, and they have horrible taste, this has been true from the earliest days of comic book fandom.
>>77775633
*smokes a cigarette and stays away from this embarrassment*
>>77775623
the point is that it is a meme because the rest of the world enjoys that event. this is /co/ just trying to be different because something is "too popular" kind of like how most of /co/ shits all over batman even though is one of the most popular superheroes ever.
>>77775562
While Civil War feels like it's out from a comic book. Panels are dynamic and everything.
BvS looks sterile. Out from an Alex Ross panel.
>>77775674
But if you have any critical judgement you can see for yourself that Batman consistently has great stories written about him, while Civil War and everything related to it is completely shit. You do have critical judgement, right?
>>77775654
Maybe so but they still have better taste than /co/
>>77775630
That's why Man of Steel's action scenes are far above any Marvel movie's action scenes.
>>77775363
i like the watchmen look
>>77775701
Hard no on there even on current shithole /co/, nevemind prime /co/ when we had some seriously great creative people and a lot of heavy readers.
>>77775700
>But if you have any critical judgement you can see for yourself that Batman consistently has great stories written about him,
Yes and yet /co/ shits on him anyway just because he is too popular for them to like. thats the only reason /co/ hates civil war too on it's own it's a good story.
>>77775654
/co/ has pretty shit taste as well anon.
>>77775680
>Civil War feels like it's out from a comic book
Yes, those comic accurate suits really make it seem like they popped out of the pages, right? And that small brawl in the airport looks exactly like the big scale fights in the actual comic, amirite?
It looks pretty good.
I do hope not every fight takes place in a grey parking garage, grey airport or on grey rooftops.
>>77775741
Again no. Civil War is objectively irredeemably shit, stop thinking in memes and maybe read a couple of comics books to get to a point where you can set your own standards, maybe read some real books too to create critical thinking.
>>77775733
if you had any kind of critical judgement you would know that this entire statement is objectively false. /co/ only likes characters and stories until they reach a certain level of popularity then suddenly they hate them.
If you are looking forward to CW, you should fuck off back to Reddit.
>>77773895
>after they flop
Haha, how can THEY flop it? Marvel's buttfuck retarded insertion of Iron Hitler and friends isn't on them.
The Russos were going to do clean Cap stuff before Marvel realized they could milk the success of WS. They're just playing along with this since it's Marvel's properties at the end of the day.
But yeah it won't be as good as WS, or even that good on its own, before anyone thinks I'm debating that. I'm just wondering what idiot would assume Russos are anything like Whedon who smeared honey all over himself and was surprised when bees started swarming and stinging. Russos haven't done anything to provoke any kind of disdain. CW is not propping itself up to be anything remotely like the hype cloud of absurdity AoU was.
>>77775769
I hope it takes place entirely on schools full of dead children and barely splotched grey backgrounds like the comic book five star classic.
>>77775751
>Black Panther chase
>Steve holding a helicopter
>Team Cap team-up
>Tag Team beating up on Tony
>War Machine and Iron Man flying
>Dat Falcon kick
>>77775771
>>77775771
again no civil war is objectively a good story you simply have bad taste. maybe read some good comics and you might be able to form a decent opinion some day.
>>77775741
I thought /co/ hated it largely because it tried to pretend to be a morally ambiguous situation, then had Iron Man turn around and act like a straight-up villain. (which had to be explained away with a retcon a few months after the event ended)
>>77775781
I don't give a shit about /co/, I personally believe your stupid bandwagoner contrarian /co/ lurker still has better taste than your average comic book reader or Tumblr lurker, but that's a separate point from Civil War being objectively shit. Also, please capitalize, and maybe read some comics books???
>>77775817
New to this convo but no, while Civil War was a good idea, it had poor execution.
>>77775705
Because they're CGI cartoons and there were no real sets used in the movie?
>>77775848
The most impressive fight scene, Clark going sayian on those two armored kryptonians in front of a conveniently placed retail store, was filmed in front of a real conveniently placed retail store.
>>77775705
Seems this faggot didn't watch Winter Soldier or Incredible Hulk.
Or Ant-Man.
Or Iron Man
>>77775800
>Batman actually has a comic accurate suit
>Batman actually has a comic accurate mechsuit
>Superman actually has a comic accurate suit
>Wonder Woman actually has a comic accurate suit
>Snyder's visual skills actually makes fight scenes feel like fight scenes
DC hasn't shown many fight scenes from the movie, because they actually make decent trailers without revealing much
>>77775899
Iron-Man barely had any action, Hulk was a complete shitfest, from the military scenes, to backflipping Blosnky operator and the two cheap CGI freaks going at it for 1 minute to save budget.
I'll give you Ant-Man's last and a buncha Winter Soldier as flat out superior, but don't pretend Man of Steel didn't have a lot of great action sprinkled thorough the 3 hour snoozefest.
>>77775899
topkek
I watched all of those, and I stand by my claim, Marvel fight scenes do not compare in the slightest to Man of Steel. If you honestly believe otherwise then you're just a blind Marvel fan who will dick ride anything Marvel makes. Very few directors can come close to Snyder's visual skills. Yes, he has made many critically mixed movies, but his visuals are never questioned.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMKsuA4Bi-c
>>77775823
>>77775823
there's also the fact that it lead directly to one more day which is really the only bad thing to come out of this story. If you take away the marketing about it being a morally ambiguous story and just read it in a vacuum theres really nothing wrong with it.
>>77775826
>I don't give a shit about /co/, I personally believe your stupid bandwagoner contrarian /co/ lurker still has better taste than your average comic book reader
you can believe whatever you want that doesn't make it true. civil war was an objectively good story it wasn't perfect by any means but it was still a fun read like i said you just have shit taste and your statement about the average /co/ lurker just proves that point even further.
>>77775908
>Snyder's visual skills actually makes fight scenes feel like fight scenes
OK, so I'm not a /tv/ shitposter or a MCU babby shitter playing pretend to fictional companies owned by multibillion dollar conglomerates so don't take this the wrong way. But are you implying that hack idiot Snyder has any skills in any area related to filmmaking? I must be reading it wrong...
>>77775680
Can we not do company wars? I think they both look great. Civil War's trailer is very dynamic and tense, which fits the fast-paced tone the story is going to need, while BvS is more slow and ominous, befitting a story that is about the build-up to a clash between two titans. Plus it fits with the concept that Marvel is heroic, DC is mythological.
>>77775877
YOU THINK YOU CAN THREATEN MY MOTHER111111
>>77775959
To be fair, Snyder may be an absolutely terrible Hollywood director but at least he's a real actual director. Marvel just gets the cheapest people possible, like fucking sitcom guys.
>>77775984
>Can we not do company wars?
I already tried that it didn't work
>>77775908
Correction: Snyder can generally make misleading trailers.
As in, they mislead people into thinking there's a chance his next film will be good.
>>77775962
There's no such thing as an objectively good story.
>>77776055
His films don't have to be any good to beat the MCU batting average though.
>>77775962
How old are you? Also, you just sorta sound indian.
>>77775680
Civil War doesn't look anything like a comic. BvS looks like a comic book come to life.
>>77776101
I think they both look like comics in their own ways. But seeing as this a Civil War thread, who gives a fuck about how BvS looks? Make another thread if you wanna discuss that (equally-hype) film.
>>77776073
>There's no such thing as an objectively good story.
thats like trying to say there's no such thing as an objectively bad story.
>>77776089
this is an anonymous image board senpai if you want to know any of that stuff i suggest you return to reddit or tumblr.
>>77775908
>Batman actually has a comic accurate suit
>Batman actually has a comic accurate mechsuit
True
>Superman actually has a comic accurate suit
Lel no.
>Wonder Woman actually has a comic accurate suit
Eh
>Snyder's visual skills actually makes fight scenes feel like fight scenes
All generic blockbuster movie directors have good visuals. Look up Bay if you want.
>>77775946
>Hulk was a complete shitfest, from the military scenes, to backflipping Blosnky operator and the two cheap CGI freaks going at it for 1 minute to save budget.
No. It was 2 monsters fighting in the most epic way possible. It also looked comic booky as fuck. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nrCvjg6nsI TIH blows the fuck out MoS anytime.
>>77775959
>Punching
>Zoom-in
>Flying
>Punching
>Zoom-in
>Flying
Yeah how revolutionizing.
>>77776101
No
>>77776132
I agree with the other guy in saying that Civil War looks nothing like a comic book, for better or worse the MCU stands on it's own two legs now, you should stop using "wow so comic like" as praise, that was false and stupid even back in the first Avengers.
>>77775705
Man of Steel fights are awful.
They're visually impressive, but they have the emotional content of an generic vidya cinematic. Nothing interesting ever happens, just PUNCHPUNCHPUNCHthrowPUNCH. The characters doing the fighting are underdeveloped and have no chemistry, and there's no sense of danger - the protagonist never feels like he's in trouble in any way.
A good fight scene doesn't just look slick. It informs you of the characters and their motivations. Clark vs Zod would've been great if there was more struggling to actually push/grapple/generally impede Zod from civilians. IM1, the conclusion of the fight had Tony outgunned and outpowered, and showed off several aspects of his character by using his head and tricking Stane. Cap vs Bucky had Cap fighting methodically and defensively where Bucky used intricate, vicious strikes that worked around his guard, showing that one is a defender while the other is an assassin. Etc etc.
MoS' fights are like everything in that film. Empty. Devoid of any true content, just pretty on the surface.
>>77775973
>But are you implying that hack idiot Snyder has any skills in any area related to filmmaking?
epik meme
>>77776161
Please just admit you're a underaged pakistani boy.
>>77776161
True, there isn't. I used to think there was such a thing, but then I found out that even shit like Civil War has fans.
>>77776163
>No. It was 2 monsters fighting in the most epic way possible. It also looked comic booky as fuck. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nrCvjg6nsI [Embed] TIH blows the fuck out MoS anytime.
Jesus H Christ, it really, really, really, REALLY doesn't. This "epic" clip you've chosen also looks like complete horseshit. Please tell me you're not loyal to a company, nevemind a conglomerate like Marvel, nevermind random CGI Hollywood dreck pumped out almost a decade ago. If yes, please reevaluate your life choices.
>>77776183
please just admit you don't actually read comics and only parrot whatever you hear /co/ say. that or you are just too emotionally stunted to form your own opinion on things.
>>77776170
I completely disagree, every Marvel "fight" just had the villain winning, then DEUS EX MACHINA upset. Boring and formulaic. It's also real embarrassing that you went all P O T T E R Y on route script doctor Marvel stuff, if you absolutely have to do this again make sure you do it on a anonymous imageboard.
>>77776226
Reading CW and enjoying CW doesn't make anyone's opinion objectively good.
Hell I'd say someone who never touched that schlock is in better mental health than those who plodded through it and developed Stockholm syndrome to survive.
>>77773822
I agree but still pic related
>>77776258
>just had the villain winning
The villain with an established advantage physically and psychologically? So you weren't even paying attention to the very elements of character conflict that anon was talking about? Good to know.
Also you have no idea what D.E.M even means if you apply it as loosely as that. You've got nothing.
>>77776226
I'm sorry to break it down to you bud, but I'm a veteran comic booker expert, online AND offline, and all of my posts clearly show that, while you sound like a greener greenhorn from every new post.
>>77776307
I don't have aspergers or shit taste, you're right! Please get back to your CW Flash and Disney XD cartoon Tumblr dissertation, this latest Squirrel Girl (from the posted images) also truly had the deepest lore, huh?
>>77776281
reading civil war and hating civil war doesn't make anyone's opinion objectively good.
hell i would say anyone who waste this much time of their life trying to argue with someone who likes something by telling them that they shouldn't like it isn't in good enough mental health to actually have a valid opinion.
>>77776340
>Backed into corner
>Flails into ad hominem
Baited yourself, lovely. You've got less than nothing.
>>77776366
So stop replying when people are just taking one second to talk about how Civil War is irrevocably shit.
>>77776307
>The villain with an established advantage physically and psychologically? So you weren't even paying attention to the very elements of character conflict that anon was talking about?
If you truly believe they put any thought or depth into those fights other than to entertain you, you're beyond delusional.
>>77776309
i'm sorry to break it to you bud but that actually doesn't mean shit you are still too emotionally stunted and lack the critical thinking skills to form your own opinion.
the fact that you actually posted this like it means something proves you have no idea what you are talking about.
>>77776372
Yup, I'm still right though, sorry if your peabrain couldn't keep up with a simple movie fight, even sorrier you took the time out to type paragraphs about your limitations.
>>77774118
We'll probably see Spidey when the inevitable second trailer comes out in winter.
>>77776398
i would except i enjoy tormenting mentally stunted people like you by reminding them that civil war is objectively good.
>>77776409
>With the sum total of absolutely no knowledge from the script and production work to back me up I can assure you it was all accidental improv
Something something not just a river in Egypt.
>>77775581
Jesus fuck can you not understand. Why is Spiderman being thrown into the conflict being presented in MCU. Hes new to us as a viewing aspect in the MCU. Is the governemt sending Tony and his team to other heroes making them sign up? Will he have any standing in the Bucky situation. How will he fit into the story.
I dont give a fuck about that Civil War comic or its shitty cash garb sequel.
>>77776453
Are you that same guy who admitted to being a Marvel intern and even went so far as to defend the merits of Thor 2? Just put a trip on already.
>>77775741
/co/ shits on BAD Batman stories, but stuff like O'Neil, Miller, Aparo and Morrison get praised here all the fucking time, and i'm not even going into the batfamily wanking because honestly, I've only read N52 Batwoman (which was great and had /co/'s love through all it's run)
>>77776455
>I dont give a fuck about that Civil War comic or its shitty cash garb sequel.
Good, you shouldn't give a fuck about the MCU either, you certainly shouldn't get mad if the trailers don't give every last detail away. You should also stop taking the time out to register as a tripshitter.
>>77776170
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rm_06apWsRg
The thing is, Superman didn't have much time to save civilians. He's fighting someone who is better trained. "I trained my entire life to master my senses, where did you train? On a farm?"
>>77776412
Gee, seems I foiled you again, if you take the time out to read all of my old posts you can clearly see I'm not mad at all, while your posts get worse grammar and typing, you use more swear words and sounds generally more infuriated.
>>77773822
it looks alright, but you're really setting yourself up for disappointment if you think the film will have any more impact on the MCU than AoU did.
It's a filler movie until Avengers 3, made for some quick cash and to introduce spiderman/bp. Tony & cap will be friends and working together in time for avengers 3, and the registration act will be completely forgotten, as well as the vigilante slant.
>>77776577
>to introduce spiderman/bp.
What I don't get is why Marvel didn't just use Kraven and Klaw or something instead of dragging everyone else into this.
I mean I know they want to use the power of Millar and events to capitalize elsewhere later but it's still a gamble to hope this doesn't cause some decay for the rest of the characters.
How much of Tony being an acidic dick can an audience take before he's nothing but this antagonistic frienemy? They've got to start thinking ahead and outside the box.
>>77776567
actually all of your post just add up to one major ad hominem. that and you repeating the phrase "Civil War a shit" over and over again.
you have not once made a valid point to prove you have ever even read a comic book much less civil war.
>>77776539
I wasnt mad that the trailers arent givung us anything. But dude i was responding kept saying the comics explain why Spiderman was there when any idiot with a brain can tell movie Civil War is nothing like comic Civil War the same like Aou was nothing like the event it stole from other thsn the title and Ultron.
I was just wondering how they were gonna explain it.
>>77776537
You must be new here because /co/ consistently shits on batman for being more popular than they're husbando superman. This has really picked up in the last few years since injustice came out and batman v superman was announced.
Hell just a few months back there was about a two week period where /co/ was posting non stop threads about nothing but batman getting his ass kicked.
>>77776744
*their
>>77776738
You sound fucking retarded.
>>77774597
Because Marvel made a deal with Sony to incorporate him into their movie universe and wanted to use him as soon as possible.
>>77776744
>>77776830
Shitting on Batman as a sidekek has nothing to do with all the great Batman stories out there.
Oh sorry that post sounded too civilized, so I would also like to add a request that you go fuck yourself for being so fucking dense.
>>77776258
I don't think you know what Deus Ex Machina is.
I can't think of a single instance of someone being saved in that way in a Marvel film.
>>77776936
>Shitting on Batman as a sidekek has nothing to do with all the great Batman stories out there.
this i agree with however, 90% of /co/ is serious about it when they do it.
/co/ is basically the /v/ of comics only with much less shitposting. generally the smartest thing to do is figure out their opinion on something and do the opposite.
>>77776163
MoS makes TIH look like dogshit.
>>77777051
Thor 2
>>77777051
Captain America 1.
The end of the movie when cap gets frozen in ice and ends up in the modern era.
>>77774699
>Did you know the Based Russos were the real creators of Arrested Development? Those scheming Jews just stole all the credit, as they are wont to do.
This is a thing /co/ unironically believes now? Jesus Christ.
>>77777051
Iron Man 3 with Pepper, Captain America with the tesseract , Avengers 1 with magic wand made it all go away and nukes work in space, Antman pulling quantum shit outta his ass, Iron Man getting pepper to activate the thingajingie, Thor 2 with the portals and the ship, Guardians with purple shit and friendship
Ultron and Thor didn't do it with the villains because they weren't strong enough to even have a proper 1 on 1 fight, but did it with the landmasses that constituted the final conflicted, Iron Man 2 didn't, but it was also even shittier. And the Incredbily shitty Hulk movie flat out didn't and just had a 3 mins pathetic CGI and face closeups ending.
The smugness in your post is pathetic, please don't bother replying, and if you're seriously loyal to a company pumping out capeshit please rethink your life choices.
>>77775908
Watchmen was 90% visually accurate to the comic but was still utter garbage.
>>77777058
>generally the smartest thing to do is figure out their opinion on something and do the opposite.
Nope, the smartest thing is being an actual individual, having a critical sense, and using proper capitalization. Your unfounded superiority taking other people for granted places you in the 13 to 16 mental age rebelling against mom and dad phase, I can only hope your physical age follows and you're not a mentally stunted 17 year old.
>>77777369
While I agree, it's still leagues above the TV directors they got on MCU.
>>77777337
>Iron Man 3 with Pepper
Not deus ex machina
>Captain America with the tesseract
Though literally a "machine from god," not a narrative deus ex machina.
>Avengers 1 with magic wand made it all go away and nukes work in space
Also not a deus ex machina.
You don't understand what a deus ex machina actually is.
>>77777337
>nukes work in space
uh...anon, physics still works in space
>>77777401
No, no it isn't. Only the Thors and Hulks are worse movies than Watchmen. Watchmen is a seriously terrible film.
>>77777382
well i hate to break it to you bud but my opinion says that civil war is good.
that and you still don't know how to post anything thats not an ad hominem.
>>77773822
I like that from the trailers so far this movie's only problem is that Whedon fucked up and didn't really build up strong believable friendship between Cap and Tony.
>>77777403
Hard no right there of all of these bud, it seems I actually know all about deus ex machians but your blind love for random schlock got you blindsided. Sorry!
>>77777337
You do know a Deus Ex Machina isn't something that just gets a character out of a tight spot, that's usually a plot device. Which every story almost always has in some form or conclusions would turn out realistically for the worst.
Something that resolves all the conflict and potential problems of a story. If you think it's just something that defeats the villain that's even more misinformed.
The tesseract in Cap didn't do that. Red Skull was taken away but Hydra remained and Cap's absence, a plot point illustrating they can work for and against the protagonist, actually made it all the more easy for them to manipulate SHIELD and Bucky. The movie even goes out its way to show how much Cap's situation worked against him alone in the end since everyone he knows is dying or dead.
Same thing with GotG, Power gem, again the plot device, didn't fix anything. It killed Ronan but was otherwise useless for anything else. Everyone's still dead, Thanos is still at large.
Ironically AoU DID use a Deus Ex Machina in the form of Vision. It's not that he stops Ultron, it's that he sides specifically with the Avengers instead of just leaving to find his own purpose and also has the capacity of the Mind Gem and JARVIS to oppose any further replication of Ultron's AI. He actively serves as a Deus Ex Machina against the plot spilling over.
>>77777556
Again, you're just completely wrong, a deus ex machina is just a plot device from the left field that abruptly ends some sort of conflict, it certainly doesn't need to solve all conflicts, nevermind the imaginary conflicts you're painting.
>>77777645
>t certainly doesn't need to solve all conflicts
It does, though. that is the very definition.
>>77775705
Man of Dragonball Z had awful fights you pleb
>>77774399
Listen to this man, he is a smart man
>>77777645
>a deus ex machina is just a plot device from the left field that abruptly ends some sort of conflict
That's all the time we have for tonight, thanks for playing.
>>77777697
>>77777723
According to?
>The term has evolved to mean a plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem is suddenly and abruptly resolved by the contrived and unexpected intervention
Always reliable Wikipedia on my side (I AM BEING IRONIC RIGHT NOW YOU DENSE CUNT).
> any artificial or improbable device resolving the difficulties of a plot.
Shit, Dictionary.References.com is on my side, but I don't know if I can trust them.
>: a person or thing (as in fiction or drama) that appears or is introduced suddenly and unexpectedly and provides a contrived solution to an apparently insoluble difficulty
Oh damn, Merrian Webster too?
>>77777873
Which means by all definitions none of the Marvel movies have this except Iron Man 2, which is dogshit.
>>77777777
Shit is getting tense.
>>77777873
>the difficulties of a plot.
You understand difficulties of a plot doesn't just mean the villain right?
Your "side" is only as narrow as your view of things it seems.
I was trying to get an epic GET in this thread. Sorry folks. Didn't happen.
>>77777945
How in the does IM2 have a Deus Ex Machina, when Tony and his black buddy beat all the robots fair and square, beat parrotLash fair and square, and get a legal indictment against Hammer fair and square?
>>77777961
It's not limited to, but the archetypal villain is certainly included in that label, you confuse the overreaching propriety of the Deus Ex Machina as a requirement, but no worries, if you have elementary grade level reading skills and read the dictionary definitions I just posted you'll understand that's not the case.
>>77778017
>tony is dying from having a thingy in his chest
>his dad just happened to leave him a design for a new thingy
>now he makes a new element and his thingy won't kill him
How did Howard know that his son would one day have to cure himself of polonium poisoning caused by having an arc reactor in his chest?
>>77773895
Shut up Whedon.
>>77778121
Damn you're right, one more shitty Deus Ex Machina to add to the list of tired script doctor scripts the MCU uses, but that wasn't the "final" confrontation of the movie, which was the original arguing point.
>>77777157
>>77777219
>>77777337
Yeah, like I thought, you don't know what a Deus Ex Machina is.
Anything that is foreshadowed or established cannot be a Deus Ex Machina. It has to be abruptly introduced into the plot and independent of the main characters - for example, Zeus showing up randomly and going "lol this guy wins because I feel like it."
Pepper is an established character that had been shown to be injected with extremis. The tesseract was THE major plot point of CA1. Loki's staff didn't come out of nowhere in Avengers and nukes DO work in space you moron. The quantum realm was foreshadowed heavily in Antman, it was a major plot point from the middle of the film onward. I haven't seen Thor 2. The Power Stone was already established as doing what it did in GotG.
You are a moron and you have no idea what you're talking about. Your company loyalty is making you into a complete dullard.
>>77776577
>you're really setting yourself up for disappointment if you think the film will have any more impact on the MCU than AoU did.
I think that trying to watch films for their impact on the cinematic universe, rather than just as films on their own, is what ruined Age of Ultron a bit.
>>77778193
You're the only one making this a company thing, when I read very little comic capeshit of either one of the big two, I have zero company loyalty, just as you have zero idea of what a Deus Ex Machina means.
By your extremely retarded, unfounded and embarrassing definition textbook cases of DEM like the Eagles in LOTR (which the author himself defined as DEM) wouldn't couldn't because they were mentioned in passing before, and because before you retreated your ignorant point they didn't also purge mankind of it's greed, cure Frodo and saved the Elfs.
By your own example, all the hundreds of classic fairy tales and myths that use some kind of deity like Zeus wouldn't count, as he would be established as a force in that universe or connected in some way to the protagonist. Please, take a second to read and realize you sound absolutely clueless.
DEM bring resolution to a conflict using a contrived intervention of some element not previously relevant to said conflict. This has always been and always will be the case. Just because it's scary spooky latin words doesn't mean it's a "higher" meaning, which seems to be your problem grasping such a simple concept.
>>77778166
Well that's because the whole Whiplash/Hammer plot has no real connection to Tony's own personal journey and Iron Man 2 sucks.
>>77778273
>only DC fans don't like Marvel movies
Go fuck yourself. Bad storytelling is bad storytelling.
>>77778322
>Please, take a second to read and realize you sound absolutely clueless.
The ironing.
>>77778382
Just stop being so emotionally attached to route blockbusters and read a little, read my post again for a nice start.
>>77778396
>read my post again
God no.
>>77778322
I don't care about company shit. I want all these films to be good because I like good films. You're just a retard who has no clue what he's talking about.
1. The Eagles in LotR were mentioned in passing but had no involvement in the plot up until then. All your 'Deus Ex Machina' were heavily involved in their films all the way through.
2. I haven't made any other points, you're confusing me with someone else.
3. Gods in Classical stories count only when they're not interacting with the physical world of the epic as active participants in the story. Nobody calls Athena at the beginning of The Odyssey a Deus Ex because she's not. But when a god appears out of nowhere, and just solves everything immediately, that is a Deux Ex Machina.
Even by your incorrect definition, the Marvel films that I've seen do not contain any Deus Ex Machina. Begone you huge faggot.
>>77778396
No matter how many times someone reads them your posts are still gonna be retarded.
>>77778411
Christ, really got you against the wall now huh? To be fair, a lot of people make the same mistakes you did, it's nothing shameful as long as you grow from it. Your first mistake was treating DEM as a "dirty word" instead of a simple plot device which is unfortunately overused.
>>77778454
>he thinks he's talking to one person
>he thinks he has anyone 'against the wall'
Dude, half this thread is lining up to point and laugh at your stupidity.
>>77778443
1 - What about the Hobbit then, were they were a major plot point, and are still considered a major DEM? Which is irrelevant by the way, because they'd still be DEM being plot points or not, as long as they're not relevant to the conflict at hand.
3- Again, no, the unexpected part of a DEM means unexpected to the conflict at hand.
I posted multiple dictionary definitions proving my point, what do you have besides sass?
>>77778454
m8 if anyone's against the ropes they're rope-a-doping the shit out of you.
>>77778559
1. The Eagles were Deus Ex in The Hobbit, they aren't referenced until they show up.
3. Dumbass, a Deus Ex Machina is supposed to be both contrived and unexpected.
>I posted multiple dictionary definitions proving my point, what do you have besides sass?
Actual knowledge. Here, though, have some definitions:
>a person or thing (as in fiction or drama) that appears or is introduced suddenly and unexpectedly and provides a contrived solution to an apparently insoluble difficulty
>any artificial or improbable device resolving the difficulties of a plot.
The Marvel films don't have these. The things you've cited as Deux Ex are not artificially introduced in the last minute, nor are they contrived. They are established things throughout the films. Usually if they save they day they do so by doing exactly what they're stated to do, rather than the film having to bullshit up some contrived reason for them to solve everything.
>extremis grants people superhuman strength and regen
>Pepper is injected
>turns out she has superhuman strength and regen!
>DEUS EX MACHINA!!!!!
>it's stated that once a bunch of people shared out the orb's power to use it for a short time
>at the end of the film, a bunch of people share out the orb's power to use it for a short time
>DEUS EX MACHINAAA
>character warns other characters against something called the quantum realm and how dangerous it is
>other character later enters the quantum realm
>DOOS EX MACHINAAAAA1!!!11
Wow.
This is some dumb shit.
You guys are all equally faggy.
>>77774273
wait. Batroc? That pirate guy cap fought on the boat was the Leaper? lmao I didn't make the connection because he wasn't wearing that ridiculous flamboyant purple jumpsuit.
Also had no idea that asshole hydra guy was Crossbones. Had to look it up on wikipedia.
>Crossbones
>Notable aliases: Bingo, Frag, Mr. Bones
>Mr.BonesI like how the MCU has removed all the fucked up spandex costumes. Not everybody needs to be running around in tight fitting bright colours, it just makes you a big fucking target. It would be nice to see some costumed villains though, they have all been in plainclothes except Cross, but the Yellowjacket is more of a weapon than costume
>>77778715
1 - They took the Hobbits to Mirkwood before the Battle of the Five Armies, so no.
3 - So? My point is that is must be contrived to the conflict at hand, not to the overarching plot or it's implications.
Please re-read the definitons,
>provides a contrived solution to an apparently insoluble DIFFICULTY
>any artificial or improbable device resolving the DIFFICULTIES of a plot
>the term has evolved to mean a plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable PROBLEM is suddenly and abruptly resolved by the contrived and unexpected intervention
The DEM provides relief to a conflict, not necessarily to the whole plot, that might be the case if the DEM is used in the finale as in the examples I used, but nonetheless they could happen at any time, and as long as the solution to the particular problems comes from a contrived, unexpected place, it's a DEM.
>>77778803
What I love about this anon claiming things are Dude SEx Mankind Divided because he says so is he doesn't seem to realize no one's denying the MCU stories are contrived, by virtue of how they introduce elements to us in a two hour span just about everything's part of Chekov's gun collection, we're simply informing him his misnomer is the problem. Then he flew off the handle out of sheer aggravation from being corrected. Derailing his own point.
Had he just said "yeah fine, then that other thing" we'd have moved on by now.
>>77778871
>The DEM provides relief to a conflict
Do you realize how generally that can be applied when you dilute it to support your case?
Neo achieving literal god mode and destroying Smith is suddenly as much a DEM as Agent Smith, a program already cheating extensively, running out of virtual bullets to shoot Neo with.
Except even though it "provides relief from the conflict" of being bullet spammed it doesn't resolve any of the larger problems of the Matrix or fighting an Agent. Which again the literal God Mode did.
>>77778871
>1 - They took the Hobbits to Mirkwood before the Battle of the Five Armies, so no.
There was, however, no indication that they would show up later. They are fundamentally different from something like the orb in GotG, that remains in play through the whole story and even has its role at the end massively foreshadowed by the Collector's explanation.
>3
Yes? I'm not saying what you think I'm saying. I'm saying the Deus Ex has to be contrived - as in, it strains believably - and unexpected - as in, there is no reason, even in hindsight, to imagine that it would appear to solve the problem. It cannot be something working as it is explained to work, as in the examples you've cited, and it cannot be something that in insight was heavily foreshadowed.
>>77779069
To add to this:
The conclusion of the Harry Potter series is a prime example of a modern Deus Ex Machina. There is no buildup or foreshadowing. No established lore pointing toward it. Harry just shows up in some magical afterlife, meets Dumbledore, and comes back to life because reasons. Even when you look back at the rest of the story, you cannot say that this ending would ever have been expected, or that there was anything established to do with it whatsoever. It feels contrived because it feels as though it has no place in the narrative - it's something that just happens, independent of anything the main characters do or say or experience. It just happens and solves a problem, and that's the extent of its role.
The Marvel films, however, do not do this.
>>77778931
I wouldn't call them Chekov's guns when they were integral to the plot.
>>77779063
None of that changes the fact that both are DEM.
>>77779069
>It cannot be something working as it is explained to work
Yes it can, as long as it's not relevant to the conflict at hand.
>It cannot be something working as it is explained to work
As long as it's not relevant to the conflict at hand, yes.
If anything you seem to confuse DEM with Chekov's gun, a DEM might very well be a integral part of the plot, as long as it brings a sudden ending to an unrelated conflict, while Chekov's gun by definition starts as a unimportant plot point.
Like Pepper seemingly falling to her death only to appear behind hotguy tearing him in half
>>77779166
Didn't Harry live because his mother cast a ward on him, so when Voldemort cast the death spell he ended up killing the only vulnerable part of Harry, which ironically was his implanted horcrux? It's been so long since I read that book, but I swear Gandalf even mentions that in that afterlife interlude. Though of course, that doesn't change that it was indeed a DEM, because Lily warding Harry hundreds of pages, if not books ago, and Dumbledore explaining the plot device after the fact doesn't change the circumstances in which the conflict was solved.
>>77779204
>I wouldn't call them Chekov's guns when they were integral to the plot.
Chekov's Guns can be integral plot elements.
Like, the frog DNA in the first Jurassic Park is a chekov's gun, and half the movie hinges on it both in narrative and thematically.
>>77779204
>Like Pepper seemingly falling to her death only to appear behind hotguy tearing him in half
You just disqualified this with your own definition:
>Yes it can, as long as it's not relevant to the conflict at hand.
It's the whole reason the protagonist and antagonist are fighting. It's heavily foreshadowed and is not contrived, as it is not an unrelated element thrust into the plot to conveniently resolve things.
Just give up, you're not even making any sense anymore.
>>77779296
But any intervention of Pepper was ruled out when she seemingly falls to her death.
i'm just looking forward to Iron Man getting shrekd by Bucky and Cap tag-teaming.
>>77779341
I'm not, not because I'm an RDJ fan but because it seems kind of pointless to try to physically beat up a guy in power armor when Scarlet Witch could just voodoo it.
Hell she could just voodoo Stark into seeing things their way.
>>77779322
...After she has been injected with something that grants massively enhanced regenerative properties.
Also, something being 'ruled out' by characters is not really indicative of something being a DEM. The point of a DEM is that it is unbelievable to the audience, because it appears to have no place in the narrative, and arrives just in time to be the solution to a problem. Someone not being dead when other characters thought they were is not DEM, it's a plot twist.
Something with no previous relevance or foreshadowing appearing to solve a problem is DEM.
Why do you faggots have to keep turning everything into company wars? Why do you always have to choose a side instead of enjoying a good movie regardless of the company that produced it?
What do you gain from blindly fellating a multi million dollar company?
>>77779275
Oh, and I think Harry even has visions of his family doing the same speech as when Voldermort attacked them at the time, which doesn't change the fact that it's a DEM as it was seemingly unrelated to the conflict at hand
>>77773822
Yoyoyo, so about registration. You don't HAVE to go public with your identity. The government just has your identity and keeps it classified, according to an issue of She-hulk I read. What was the big problem, then? I mean drafting minors into super hero boot camp is one thing, but what exactly was so bad about registration itself?
>>77779322
You're confusing Deus Ex Machina with a tweest.
A tweest is foreshadowed and involves subjects that are a consistent part of the plot. A Deus Ex Machina is not foreshadowed and has no believable place in the plot. "Surprise, this character is not dead" is not a Deus Ex Machina. The turtle shenanigans at the end of TLAB are.
All I can say is, I'm going to be so fucking relieved after this and BvS come out, cause it feels like we've been talking about them all last year.
>In less than 6 months we are about to watch a movie with Captain America, Bucky, Falcon, Iron Man, War Machine, Scarlet Witch, Hawkeye, Black Widow, Vison, Ant-man, Black Panther and Spiderman.
Imagine tell this to someone a few years ago.
>>77779396
Do you trust your own government right here right now? Nevermind Marvel's mutant bigot government full of blatant supervillains, seedy superhero projects like Weapon X, and that has been compromised on different levels before by guys like Zemo and later on Osborn.
>>77779396
>You don't HAVE to go public with your identity. The government just has your identity and keeps it classified, according to an issue of She-hulk I read. What was the big problem, then? I mean drafting minors into super hero boot camp is one thing, but what exactly was so bad about registration itself?
The government in the Marvel U is the same one that gets taken over by Hydra or some other villainous organization like once a month. Heck, the entire thing with the SHRA was that SHIELD would hold onto the names. Six months later, who's in charge of SHIELD? Norman fucking Osborn.
Who might be Marvel's biggest example of why Superheroes need secret identities given that the SECOND he figured out Spidey's secret identity he grabbed Gwen Stacy and chucked her off a bridge.
>>77779428
I know, Next year is an amazing year. I'm more hyped for bvs though
>>77779396
The problem was that with registration, the government was essentially going to be telling the superheroes who the bad guys are.
Also, not like the government ever suffers any major data leaks, right?
Also they built a prison in the negative zone to put people who have not been given a trial indefinitely.
>>77779446
>>77779447
If the super heroes knew all of this, they could've assembled an incredibly compelling argument against registration. "The government is the biggest liability to our safety because of this laundry-list of times they've secretly been evil" would've done it, I think. Just couple that with some initiative within the super-hero community to strive for self-accountability. I was in middle school when Civil War happened so I didn't really get most of it, but now that I think about it, it's really contrived.
>>77779427
This is going nowhere, but again, I do not believe a DEM necessarily needs zero foreshadowing in the overarching plot, some people have extremely limited definitions of DEM, maybe out of a feelings definitions have to be mutually exclusive, while loose literary terms like Cherkov's Gun, DEM and plot twist intertwine in many different ways.
This very strict definition you have been arguing for doesn't apply to some of it's most famous examples, even some that have been used against my case, nevermind the ones I brought and the dictionary references.
>>77779561
>If the super heroes knew all of this, they could've assembled an incredibly compelling argument against registration.
Problem is that Maria Hill ordered SHIELD to attack Cap before the act even went into law, which is straight up illegal. Maria Hill ruined everything.
>>77779561
>"The government is the biggest liability to our safety because of this laundry-list of times they've secretly been evil" would've done it, I think.
That was literally the argument put forward by the X-men. Luke Cage, too IIRC.
The response they were given was "This time it'll totally be different we swear".
>>77779600
>while loose literary terms like Cherkov's Gun, DEM and plot twist intertwine in many different ways.
No, they don't.
>>77779561
The super hero community already had accountability, checks and balances there either way, your run of the mill superhuman doesn't look at a loose cannon like Moon Knight with fond eyes and flat out hunts down killers like Punisher, starter heroes always get coached by veterans or drafted as rookies on superteams.
That incident with Speeball was a simple operational error that happens in every area, and even then it was mostly on the supervillain Nitro and pales in comparison to your day to day police violence and government violence.
It's a moot point, because superheroes can only think back as far as their editors, which in Marvel's case in like a week at best.
And yeah, Civil War is absolute horseshit.
I have a question.
How is this a "civil war" when theres like 15 heroes and quite a few of them have no powers? Also why would there need to be a registration act when more than half of them are either military agents, public figures, or have no reason to hide their identity? Otherwise, the few left that do have reason- why? Why would the 6 or 7 of them that need to be undercover be a big enough threat being left alone?
Its like how DC is making a suicide squad movie when none of the villains in the movie have been introduced as villains from other stories yet. This is jumping the gun big time.
>>77779561
Everyone was talking about how Hydra and Skrulls and AIM and a bunch of other liabilities exist, the government just put smart guys (Reed, Tony, Hank) in charge and said trust us without really discussing counter measures. The smart guys didn't even go with trust us, they just said we're smarter than you don't question us.
Then it turned out the smart guys were two pawns being played and the other was a skrull. You might think that is kind of contrived to dismiss the politics, but actually it's not uncommon for plants or bought off members to exist in a lot of political parties. Of course their plans don't commonly revolve around an alien invasion or revenge against the Illuminati but you just never know.
>>77779626
The most famous DEM, LOTR's Eagles were introduced as friends of Gandalf in the first book, as seemingly unimportant side character who later turned into a huge plot point they were Chekov's gun, of course their reintroduction was a plot twist, and the seemingly unexpected save they represented made it famous as a DEM.
>>77779703
>It's a moot point, because superheroes can only think back as far as their editors, which in Marvel's case in like a week at best.
Accounting for the sliding time scale?
>>77779703
I thought it was rad at the time, but now it seems like your usual trite event content. Like, characterization is secondary to progressing the plot on some timeline.
>>77779704
In Suicide Squad they can just show up in a prison and it's no big deal. I guess in CA CW they'll soup up some of the terms of the Registration Act and ignore the secret identity part, the trailer certainly made it seem like IM was vying for them to become full time government operatives.
>>77779764
The huge difference between the Eagles and what you're arguing, though, is that they were totally removed from the plot. They had no reason whatsoever to appear. Looking back, there's no reason for the audience to think they would appear.
This isn't just a case of a fake out where some guy looks dead but then isn't. The eagles are totally irrelevant to what is happening. They have no place there. There's no foreshadowing of their appearance - they are introduced beforehand, and then discarded, with no indication or reason to ever turn up again.
The definition you propose for a DEM makes every single plot twist ever one. But that's not what the term means. It refers to a sudden introduction of some element that is not relevant and has no real reason to be around other than to solve things.
![are-iron-man-2008-and-thor-2011-objectively-the-same-722602[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/6o2cCE3.jpg "are-iron-man-2008-and-thor-2011-objectively-the-same-722602[1].jpg")
>this device
Why doesn't Tony just make a giant version of this to use on Cap and his crew?
>>77779798
That's almost like every event, and Marvel does them so often and in such an all encompassing way that even if a writer had good intentions he wouldn't be able to hash out and get synergy with other book writers in time. At least Civil War was a funny trainwreck like AvX and like usual was forgotten in two years time.
>>77779704
Before the super hero movie boom, I'd always imagined Avengers as a mega-budget TV series. There are just so many characters and arcs that you can't reasonably cover any content with yearly movies. By the time we get to Secret Invasion, we're gonna be CGI-ing everyone's faces so they look the same age.
>>77774526
What Word gets filtered to baka?
>>77779841
This is going nowhere, but not every plot twist resolves a conflict and not every plot twist is contrived like a DEM.
>"most EPIC Marvel movie EVER!"
>literally filmed in a parking garage
>>77779764
>The most famous DEM, LOTR's Eagles
...Really? Not the navyman from Lord of the Flies (even the simpsons makes fun of that one), or maybe a Greek tragedy where the term gets its origins, you go with LOTR eagles instead?
Either way, while they're arguably a plot twist, BECAUSE they were set up previously, they're a Chekov's gun, not a Deus Ex Machina. The two terms are mutually exclusive as a Deus Ex Machina by definition requires the element injected into the story to be new as of the moment of its need, while a Chekov's Gun requires the opposite; prior set up.
The terms are not interchangeable like that. It can be one or the other. Both can be kinds of twists (although with a Chekov's Gun if there's sufficient set up that its firing is telegraphed, it lo longer qualifies as a twist) but it can't be all three.
>>77779884
If it's any consolation the MCU isn't remotely like the comics, most well known Avengers comics are terrible either way so we'd gain nothing if they were indeed filmed and I'm not even touching on the city state of superhero TV shows.
>>77779865
Iron man nears flash levels of plot inconsistencies.
He could easily build an army of hulkbusters with those sound things built in and totally wipe away any threat. Fuck he doesn't even have to build it, he has other robots to do it for him.
Tony only gets to use his tech when the plot allows him to.
>>77779600
The strict definition does apply to the famous example you introduced through. Gwaihir's subjects have no stake or place in the final battle of the Hobbit. They're totally uninvolved, and there's no hint that they're going to show up there.
This is very different from the case you've been blabbering on about with Pepper, where the character in question is a massive part of the final conflict, and is injected with a formula that grants her the ability to survive her apparent death. She's not like Gandalf's feathery buddies, who appear at the last minute with no foreshadowing. She's part of the entire final sequence of the film, and is given the means to do what she does right in front of the viewer.
You're saying that integral plot points of these films serve as Deus Ex, using the eagles from The Hobbit as your precedent, but the eagles are not integral to their story. They have a brief appearance beforehand and that's it.
>>77779938
I never said they were interchangeable, they are just not mutually exclusive. It doesn't matter if they were set up before, if they were not set up for the conflict at hand it's a DEM.
Greek gods would get introductions, many times appear in the early acts or have a personal relationship with the main characters.
Lord of Flies indeed is also another textbook DEM, smoke signals trying to contact passing ships are actually a major plot point thorough the entire book, which doesn't matter in the least to it's DEM status, as the smoke signals only works to bring a contrived and unexpected ending to a completely unrelated conflict when two boys try to murder each other.
>>77774386
Tony was right, but they didn't want him to be right, so they went out of their way to make Registration seem EVIL, but then went ahead and had both sides to stupid out of character evil bullshit.
Not to mention the writers as a whole couldn't get on the same page about how it was all supposed to work. In the end, all we can say for certain about Civil War is that it created a huge mess.
>>77774180
Age is hard enough on the body. Combine that with alcoholism and drugs in your youth and you have a ticking time bomb of a body.
>>77780026
>Greek gods would get introductions, many times appear in the early acts or have a personal relationship with the main characters.
The term Deus Ex Machina is generally only used to refer to instances where an god that has not appeared in the story yet jumps in to solve stuff, such as Herakles appearing to save Alcestis.
>>77774331
And let's not forget how harmful events are for ongoings since all the writers are forced to stop everything that they're doing just to write tie ins and any momentum books were building in their own story disappears.
>>77779987
Again, it doesn't matter. DEM is unrelated to the conflict at hand, it's divine intervention to the immediate problems, it's major plot relevance doesn't matter, as it could be the God the whole play was based around, it could be a major plot point like Lord of Flies, it could be a rock in the sky, it could be alluded to by previously linking elements to the divine likes Tolkien's Great Eagles, it could even be a major character like Pepper, who could even be present at the situation, as long as the element at hand is not involved in the conflict and brings a sudden and contrived end to it.
>>77780192
>DEM is unrelated to the conflict at hand
Pepper is not unrelated to the conflict at hand.
>>77780192
As that guy stated, Pepper is pretty relevant to the conflict at hand.
She's the reason the two characters are fighting. She's there through about 2/3rds of their fight before her fall. Her presence is not a DEM in any way.
>>77780147
Evidently not, as the two most famous cases have prior foreshadowing, nevermind that in another Euripides play which is frankly the only I'm familiar with off cuff famous DEM Medea's God godfather saves her, after foreshadowing earlier in the play.
>>77780192
Your definition of 'unrelated to the conflict at hand' is far too broad.
Pepper is involved throughout the entire final act of that film.
