Hey guys, I just finished binge watching this and absolutely loved it. I know this may seem like a common question but now what? Is Korra worth it? I don't want to ruin a perfect series. Any other similar recommendations? Also general ATLA discussion thread
Korra's a disapointment, but it has it's moments. Season 1's bad, season 2's worse, season 3's great, and season 4's eh.
Only watch season 3
>>77517099
>Is Korra worth it?
No. It does have one or two interesting moments but on the whole Korra was a huge piece of shit.
>>77517099
If you loved ATLA, you will have nothing but massive disappointment in Korra.
The ending was especially shitty, cause the final BBEG gave up after two stupid sentences spoken by Korra.
Two. Sentences.
>inb4 Korra apologists
>>77517099
ATLA is a fantastic series, definitely a hard one to follow up on. I wouldn't recommend Korra though.
If you want something similar you might want to check out Wakfu. I only watched the first season but I enjoyed it quite a lot. The second season didn't really catch my interest so I didn't continue it, but I'd say the first season works fine as a complete story. I was happy enough with it to stop there, anyway.
Someone else can comment on whether you should watch it in French with subtitles or check out the dub. I haven't seen the dub so I can't comment on that.
>>77517246
Hey fuck you in particular, Korra showed the big bad the ultimate mercy she's a fantastic Avatar
Watch Korra OP! It's got flaws, but it's still great
>>77517099
Yes, Korra is one of the best cartoons ever made.
Is that what you wanted to hear OP? It's not like this is the 500th thread created on this topic or anything.
Don't watch Korra. It will just make you sad and angry.
OP here, thanks for your suggestions guys, I realise it's a tough series to follow up, and I don't expect Korra to reach the same heights, but the visuals and world building still look spectacular and it won't make much sense to watch season 3 alone. I'm definitely gonna check it out
>>77517099
>ATLA
>perfect
pick one
>>77517210
You want your blood to boil a little bit more, /co/?
I just realized that the season 4 finale was Bryke 'making up' for the finale of ATLA. Aang wasn't able to talk Ozai down, so he had to resort to violently ripping his bending away, not to mention a rather jarring deus ex machina. But not Korra, no siree, she's such a better Avatar that she TALKED the would-be conquerer of the world down, no plot devices necessary.
>>77518035
You're probably right, but at this point i expect things like that.
>>77517099
I would only recommend Korra as the kind of series one would watch when you have nothing else to watch. It's nowhere near as good as TLA, but if you wish to explore the world of the original series more so, it's worth a look.
>>77517768
good
it's definitely flawed but it's worth watching I think
>>77517099
Season 1 is mediocre
Season 2 is fucking shit
Season 3 is pretty good
Season 4 is average
If you're really desperate for more of Avatars world and can stomach two seasons of garbage the show does have its highlights, but otherwise I wouldn't really waste your time on it.
>>77517099
>I don't want to ruin a perfect series
You're literally a child if you think that
1. ATLA is perfect and
2. Weaker continuation somehow is going to rob you of pleasure you had while watching the original show.concerning point 2 i see SW prequels examples coming, but all this allso applies to SW just as much, only SW has never been good to begin with
>>77518493
>only SW has never been good to begin with
A New Hope was a fun modern reimagining of old pulp sci-fi like Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon, and Empire Strikes Back is fantastic.
Say what you want about the rest of the films but there's a reason those two were so influential.
>Is Korra worth it? I don't want to ruin a perfect series.
Then avoid Korra like the plague. It's not worth it. At all.
>>77517246
>If you want something similar you might want to check out Wakfu
This is true but Wakfu is worse than Korra.
>>77517099
Korra is like a worse ATLA. If you want more ATLA, just read the comics which are mostly better than Korra.
>>77517099
Korra is not nearly as bad as most of /co/ shits on it for being. If you looked ATLA then Korra i absolutely worth checking out.
>>77517099
Don't watch Korra. Please don't. It never existed.
>>77517116
>season 3 is great
No its not, it's complete mess. It's only serviceable if you compare it to the train wreck that's the rest of the series, but that says more about the series as a whole if anything. Compare it to literally any season from the original and you can plainly see its hot garbage.
>>77517099
go look at the release dates for the 3rd season. the last ~ 10 episodes were released in a single week.
>>77519119
>hating Wafku
>recommending the comics
What the fuck is wrong with you?
>>77519679
As someone who likes ATLA a lot and wanted to like LoK i don't think you should watch LoK if you like ATLA.
>>77519765
What does this have to do with anything? There was a hiatus, and they released the finale all at once. It was great.
>>77518493
I agree with this guy, calling ATLA perfect is a stretch. The world they build is terrific and the characters are all very charming, but the writing was mediocre, nearly every episode is rising tension until the last 3 minutes where the plot is resolved out of nowhere by some previously unmentioned shit.
(OP I'm in your shoes too, just started season 2 of Korra, I like the post-industrial setting and while the main characters have zero charm, the supporting cast is a lot of fun and there are flashbacks where we see the kids from the original as adults)
>>77517099
>I don't want to ruin a perfect series.
But you already saw the finale of ATLA.
>>77518493
Well if not perfect, I still found it groundbreaking for a kids show, the pace and consistency was great throughout, despite having no source material and the music and animation was a great experimental fusion of different styles as well. Really there was so much that could have gone wrong but the fact that the series was able to handle everything with understanding and simplicity was a great feat. I think in terms of achieving it's potential for what it is, it is an almost perfect show. The only place it fell a bit short was further developing the romantic subplot and some random deus ex machinas. And obviously a weaker continuation is not going to diminish anything of the original but its still going to be a disappointing addition to the universe
>>77519679
I wonder what you do when you see something completely retarded happening in LoK. You just close your eyes and pretend it didn't happen?
>>77519932
>previously unmentioned shit.
there are at least 3 episodes where they talk about the energy inside people. They just don't tell us what exactly it does.
>>77518035
She talked the kuvira down only after destroying her giant robot and kicking her ass.
>>77520698
>destroying her giant robot
that was Mako
>kicking her ass.
taking a brick to the face is hardly 'kicking her ass'.
>binge watching ATLA
The pacing isn't designed for that. You should have kept it to one, maybe two episodes a day.
There's going to be a lot of hate for Korra in this thread (at this point its pretty much a meme on this board), but if you enjoyed ATLA then watch LOK. It really isn't as bad as everyone makes it out to be.
>>77518035
>Aang wasn't able to talk Ozai down
It would be completely retarded if he did
> rather jarring deus ex machina
This was discussed before, it's not a deus ex.
>no plot devices necessary
Kuvira losing half of her brain and going inside RC with her mecha that can shoot at kilometers of distance should be considered 'plot device'.
>>77520730
>hate
Pointing out flaws is 'hate' now?
>It really isn't as bad as everyone makes it out to be
only if you decide to ignore the parts when the story doesn't make any sense.
Korra was a massive letdown. They were pandering to the older fans of the original, but they were pandering to the -wrong- fans, you know, the ship-everyone-with-everyone "Zuko is mai husbando" types. As a result, the show is weighed down by bullshit relationship drama that shoves the real meat of the show (e.g. growing resentment for benders, Korra's destiny as this era's Avatar) aside just so the teenage love dodecahedrons and shipping bait can happen.
You are gonna eanna watch Korra. Just get it over with. Its really not that bad, it has a cool origin story of the Avatar itself and has a neat steampunk feel to it. But the plot goes all over the place and the characters are older and a lot less charming.
>>77519932
Yeah people overstate the writing in ATLA compared to Korra big time. The thing is >>77520748 puts it well, the target audience is older and thus, the more or less normal mistakes you'd come to expect from a show for 10 year olds becomes suddenly glaringly obvious.
>>77517099
Just watch it and make your own opinion, you will probably like some things but the ending and the whole season 2 was shit
>>77520748
ATLA was weighed down by bullshit relationship stuff too. Don't act like it didn't happen or that it was handled well.
>>77520812
But it was handled well, that's part of what made the show great
>>77520758
>a cool origin story of the Avatar itself
Many people didn't like it. For me, i didn't like Wan. He is stupid enough to trust Vaatu. Also, people taking firebending and leaving the turtle just because he did it is too strange. They treated it as forbidden for a long time, and all it took is one person actually asking the lion turtle. How the hell no one did that before?
>>77520758
The Wan episodes are one of the worst parts of LoK because they're tied to the universe. If they had been a standalone story they would have been ok.
>>77520825
The Wan episodes were literally the lowest point of the show
>>77520758
Wan was the best episodes of season 2, but they were absolute garbage lore-wise
>>77520836
>>77520827
Jesus christ how autistic can you be you are so obviously parroting the same opinion you read in another korra hate thread.
>>77520844
Maybe a lot of anons share the same opinion because it genuinely was bad.
>>77520735
>This was discussed before, it's not a deus ex.
It absolutely is. TWO huge contrivances that hand Aang his victory.
>>77520844
It breaks the lore established by the original, better written series, so yeah it's pretty bad. At least it had good animation
>>77520844
It's very rarely baseless dislike for LoK. And the Wan episode in fact only detract from the overall world of Avatar because the origin story is very much different to how it was in ATLA.
As stand alone episodes or an intro to a new setting they would be ok, but since they're not they just end up making the Avatar setting worse.
>>77517099
Disregard everything you read in this thread but the following opinion:
Just watch it, season 2 has this two part episode with the very first Avatar which is a must watch and also Season 3 is really good, as good as Book Earth i would say.
>>77520866
Aang pulling a Goku VS Piccolo at the world tournament would have been more satisfying
He won't kill you because he doesn't believe in killing, but he will protect others with everything he's got, the next time you try to rise up. he'll be there to keep you down.though best ending would have been following Yangchen's counsel
>>77520866
First, Aang couldn't enter the Avatar state because he was hit in one chakra. Why is it deus ex to be hit on the same spot again? he already had the power, it's not something 'new'.
And the energybending thing, it didn't really serve any purpose, so Aang wasn't saved by it, meaning it's not a deus ex. The fight was already over when Aang took his bending. He might as well simply not kill Ozai.
>>77520892
>best ending would have been following Yangchen's counsel
why so bloodthristy, anon?
>>77517099
If you loved ATLA then boy do I have great news for you! There is a live movie production of the first book of this beloved franchise directed by prestigious interesting man M Night Shymulan himself! Definitely worth multiple viewings. I can't wait for Book 2: Earth!!!
Korra has its moments. The shit posters will tell you it's an abomination, but it actually has its moments. Just be prepared for some cringe worthy bullshit like Amons backstory being a huge disappointment and a shitty love triangle that goes on for way longer than it should.
>>77521296
None of the past Avatars he consulted said "kill the fucker." All of them said he had to "be decisive." Basically, they were telling him if came down to him actually needing to kill Ozai, he should do it and not hesitate. Aang had a bad habit of flip-flopping on important decisions and they were basically telling him that if he kept questioning the what-ifs, he'd lose.
>>77521296
It's not about Aang's feelings, it's about the world
>>77521404
>>77521403
the world is just fine with Ozai alive
>>77521381
Most people will agree, it's just that those moments are the minority and are usually overshadowed by the bad.
>>77517099
I watched the entire series on binge, loved it to death, watched Korra and every single decision shat all over what I enjoyed on the original.
Focus on character growth and interactions? Gone. They hint and even do some work on the beginning of season one but by the time the main cast is united they decide to focus on the plot and they kinda stop being developted. Korra doesn't change, grows, regress or suffer she is just this hot headed character that punches above her waist and that's about it really, for example. Nothing changes. There is no conflict for Korra other than "do you guys really need me".
Speaking of which, did you enjoy the special types of bend? They will ruin this.
Did you like the East Asian setting? Ruined. The world now has suffered the influence of the west, everything looks touched and changed with some west tech. There is some stuff that looks like "what if the East developed their own tech and architecture" and those still carry a bit from the original show, but that's the exception to the rule most of the time.
I couldn't like any of the main characters in Korra when I loved all of them in the original.
>>77521381
>>77521522
>has its moments
for example?
>>77521628
Book 3s finale was good, up until the very end.
Book 4 episode 2 was pretty good.
Book 1 at Tarrloks Party. Actually Amon was great until the reveal. I could probably list more if i thought about it.
>>77517099
>tfw still can't find it in original with english subs
>>77521688
>Book 3s finale was good
"let's put the fucking Avatar inside a mountain with a river below. Nothing can go wrong".
>Book 4 episode 2 was pretty good.
isn't that the one where Korra lets everyone worried by running without telling anyone and starts fighting again because that's what being the avatar is about?
>>77521142
>Why is it deus ex to be hit on the same spot again?
Because it's ridiculously convenient that he just happens to get hit in that exact spot exactly when he needs it, and it takes the entire battle that he'd been training towards out of his hands. He might as well have gone up to Ozai in the first episode.
The fight was only already over because of the rock. Energybending meant that the universe bent over backwards to prevent Aang from making a difficult decision.
>>77521807
I don't recall any rivers inside the mountain, you migth want to check up on that. And i did say "up until the very end" meaning the jinora part was bad.
Episode 2 is the one where Korra trains and leaves for RC yes, but i don't consider that as a bad thing because it seems very normal given the circumstances.
>>77521853
> ridiculously convenient
convenience =/= deus ex. Most shows are based on convenience.
>it takes the entire battle that he'd been training towards out of his hands
were you really expecting a 12 years old to defeat the firelord on steroids? it was impossible from the get-go, he was going to use the avatar state eventually. Even if he did not lose the avatar state before that fight, you could still say that "it wasn't Aang, it was the avatar state!". But in the end, this is a show about the avatar, and that's part of him. We were never expecting Aang to defeat him alone.
>He might as well have gone up to Ozai in the first episode.
the only reason Ozai even allowed Aang to get close to him on that last fight is because he thought that with Sozin's comet he could defeat him.
>Energybending meant that the universe bent over backwards to prevent Aang from making a difficult decision
not really. Even without energybending he could just keep Ozai alive. It doesn't change anything since Ozai was already beaten before energybending.
>>77521909
> rivers inside the mountain
it was below it, if i remember right. That's how Mako killed the unarmed woman.
>And i did say "up until the very end" meaning the jinora part was bad.
only if you ignore how much of a bullshit zaheer is in the first place. Basically, you have to consider the red lotus to be completely stupid to let Korra escape, then consider Zaheer completely OP for no reason to fight against the avatar and achieving a power no other airbender had.
>>77521950
>Most shows are based on convenience.
No, shit writing is based on convenience.
>were you really expecting a 12 years old to defeat the firelord on steroids?
That's the entire premise of the fucking series.
>it was impossible from the get-go
So is bending. A 12 year-old with superpowers defeating another guy with more limited superpowers is not ridiculous.
>he was going to use the avatar state eventually
It wasn't required at all. Him losing the AS was the perfect set up for him to win the final battle on his own.
>Even without energybending he could just keep Ozai alive.
All the characters, including Aang, say repeatedly that there is no way he can stop the Firelord without killing him. If sparing him was an option from the start, the entire dilemma wouldn't be brought up, let alone be the focus of four whole episodes.
>>77520735
this
>>77522008
Not sure how a river that Korra doesn't have access to is a problem for the villains. It's not like she can waterbend water she can't get to.
I do ignore the Zaheer thing because it isn't actually that bad. He is shown as a man who spent his entire life studying air nomads and their culture. He also seems to have spent atleast 13 years detaching himself from the world so his flying power isn't unbelievable. And obviously the Red Lotus took precautions regarding Korra, it just turned out that they underestimated her, which is completely ok.
You seem to be really nitpicky here just as an attempt at proving there are no good moments in LoK. When there obviously are, even if the majority of the story is bad.
>>77519119
>Wakfu worse than Korra
Kek
>>77522122
/co/ only watches Wakfu for the hips anyway.
Check out Wakfu.
It's basically the slightly less good French version of Avatar, but with much better waifu material.
Avoid the English dub though.
>>77522039
>shit writing is based on convenience.
"oh, zaheer just happens to know everything about airbending when people randomly gets bending"
"oh, we just happens to find the Avatar on an iceberg after 100 years of people looking for him"
convenience and coincidence are normal in storytelling. They also happen a lot in real life.
>That's the entire premise of the fucking series.
the premise is "go into the avatar state, and fuck shit up". You have to be an autist if you were expecting Aang to win without the avatar state training for 1 year.
>So is bending
in our world. Not on Avatar world.
>A 12 year-old with superpowers defeating another guy with more limited superpowers is not ridiculous.
this would imply Aang is more powerful than Ozai. He is not. Ozai has decades of experience more than Aang. Hell, Aang is training firebending (the most powerful bend he had at the moment) for about 2 months without a proper master, and i'm being optimistic about the time. Ozai trained all of his life. There is just no way.
>there is no way he can stop the Firelord without killing him
he just did, with his earthbending, right before taking his bending away.
>>77522114
>Not sure how a river that Korra doesn't have access to is a problem for the villains
it's the avatar. She could brin the whole mountain down for all they know. If you want her to activate the avatar state, just fully chain her body like the earth queen did. Hell, put her somewhere without any element just so she cannot bend without movement.
>I do ignore the Zaheer thing because it isn't actually that bad
yes, yes it is. He studied all about air nomad culture. What about it? Katara LIVED on the water tribe and had access to waterbending scrolls, and still sucked at bending in S01. Zaheer shouldn't be good at all in airbending.
>He also seems to have spent atleast 13 years detaching himself from the world so his flying power isn't unbelievable
it's not just mindset. It's a technique. He has to have control over airbending on a level that he shouldn't have. Not only that, it would imply that over hundreds of years, Zaheer did something only one other airbending master was able to do. No other airbender could do something so simple as detachment while still being masters at bending. It just looks like he is some kind of special snowflake.
>>77517099
> Is Korra worth it?
Absolutely, just skip books 2 and 3 and you're good.
>>77517116
>>77517145
Everyone who says Korra's book 3 is good is a kidderino.
>>77522391
>it's the avatar.
Yeah and they poisoned her with the intent of killing her instantly. They underestimated how resistant she would be to going into the AS. Had she gone into the AS earlier she would have been dead.
>yes, yes it is.
It's really not. Zaheer spent alot more time studying air nomads than Katara lived in the south. She also did actually get better with the scrolls alone and so did Aang. If Zaheer had access to scrolls for Airbending he could easily become proficient in airbending (which is all he was).
>it's not just mindset. It's a technique
Based entirely on mindset as we see. Also it seemed like no other airbender really sought complete detachment like he did. Then there's also the fact that becoming that detached is not easy, even Zaheer couldn't do it until his attachment died. So it was a rare airbending technique that requires great sacrifice, there's nothing that implies you have to be very good at airbending to do it.
>>77522224
>convenience and coincidence are normal in storytelling. They also happen a lot in real life.
Coincidences that start conflict are okay. Ones that resolve those conflicts are not. And just because something happens in real life does not mean it makes for a good story.
>>77522224
>You have to be an autist if you were expecting Aang to win without the avatar state training for 1 year.
There is nothing suggesting he couldn't. We never even see Ozai fight anyone but a 13 year-old shitty Firebender before the finale.
>>77522224
>this would imply Aang is more powerful than Ozai. He is not.
He is, though.
Ozai has no reason to be stronger than Aang for any reason other than being older, and Aang has repeatedly defeated more experienced opponents. Ozai is Fire Lord because of a combination of bloodline and treachery, not strength. It's entirely possible for him to have never been in a real fight in his life. Aang's the fucking Avatar, and more importantly he and Ozai are only as strong as the writers decide they are.
>he just did, with his earthbending, right before taking his bending away.
Which he was only able to do because of the rock. You keep missing that point.
Korra doesn't even have an Azula. Azula was the greatest character because she was so complicated and was suffering so much inner turmoil even though she didn't do anything wrong.
>>77522682
Kuvira? Azula was appearing in 3 seasons while Kuvira had only one.
>>77522755
Kuvira needed more time to develop. I put that on bryke though.
>>77522502
>poisoned her with the intent of killing her instantly
not really. The poison was to make her activate the avatar state and kill her slowly. That's why they tried to kill her when she finally was in the avatar state.
>Zaheer spent alot more time studying air nomads than Katara lived in the south
he spend 13 years imprisoned, so i doubt he had much time to study air nomad culture considering his age. This would also imply Zaheer was extremely picky while studying air nomad culture, to learn everything about airbending and make sure to remember it for those 13 years just for the day he would get sudden bending.
>She also did actually get better with the scrolls alone and so did Aang
not really. No difference that we can see at least. She only gets better after training with a true master, something zaheer couldn't do.
>If Zaheer had access to scrolls for Airbending he could easily become proficient in airbending
he couldn't even airbend, he would just move his arms without feeling the flow of air and not knowing if he is doing anything wrong. Katara with the scroll had this advantage, +the fact that she was training even before the scroll, and still sucked.
>Based entirely on mindset as we see
it's airbending, so yeah, it's based on airbending and not only on mindset. If it is easy, someone would have done it before.
>it seemed like no other airbender really sought complete detachment like he did
that sounds ridiculous. Detachment is basically their culture. Hell, they knew about the technique, so they had many years to try and find a way to do it but weren't able to. Somehow Zaheer can? even if he lost his woman, he still had atachments in one way, considering he still wanted to kill Korra so i think 'atachments' is very subjective. If we're talking only about love life, at the very least we are forced to consider that in thousands of years no airbender ever was some kind of 'forever alone'. It's unrealistic.
>>77522788
Then Korra has nothing. Because in Aang all characters develop throughout the whole series, while in Korra most of them appear in a single book and never appear in another.
Maybe, if Korra seasons were actually chained and directly connected, it'd be a much better show? Fu bryke.
>>77517099
>I know this may seem like a common question but now what? Is Korra worth it?
Korra's best episodes are far below ATLA's standards, and its usual episodes are crap.
Don't.
>>77522983
That is so true because the only character close to being as developed as the original series is Zaheer.
>>77522873
>The poison was to make her activate the avatar state and kill her slowly.
It was to activate the AS so they could kill her and end the cycle. That is pretty obvious.
>This would also imply Zaheer was extremely picky while studying air nomad culture, to learn everything about airbending and make sure to remember it for those 13 years just for the day he would get sudden bending.
He was a fan of air nomads, it's not like he planned on getting airbending it just so happened that he did get it. Again though it's not thats strange or unfeasable that he could have learned about airnomads and bending forms before getting imprisoned.
>She only gets better after training with a true master, something zaheer couldn't do.
That is just blatantly false. Both Aang and Katara got better at waterbending after getting their hands on the scroll. They might not have been master level, and surely benifitted from training with Paku, but they did get better. As for Zaheer, he was never a master at airbending, and he wouldn't need to train with a master to learn the basics and perhaps some more advanced moves.
>If it is easy, someone would have done it before.
Good thing i specificly said it wasn't easy. It just doesn't require you to be good a airbending. As we see you only need to be an airbender who has achieved complete detachment, something most people would never be able to do.
>Hell, they knew about the technique, so they had many years to try and find a way to do it but weren't able to.
Tenzin thought it was a myth, so they didn't think it was possible. So if no one believes it a possiblity they most likely wont try. Then ofcourse you would have to detach yourself enough to be able to fly, something most people will never be able to.
And just because you're detached doesn't you can't act. In fact because Zaheer thought Korra was "evil" he wouldn't need to be attached to the idea of ridding the world of her, it would just be a thing that needs to be done.
>>77520873
>>77520867
How does it contradict with the established lore?
>>77523113
I doesn't contradict it, but it does detract from it. Things that doesn't need explaining are explained poorly. Everything is turned from a sort of balance seeking into a fight between good and evil. Spirits are turned from actual spirits into some kind of alien species. Lion Turtles are the source of bending etc.
So yeah, it doesn't contradict anything specificly but it does cheapen the story and in many ways worsen it.
>>77522553
>Coincidences that start conflict are okay. Ones that resolve those conflicts are not
this would nulify even the day Aang has left the iceberg. The point is, it's NOT deus ex.
>We never even see Ozai fight anyone but a 13 year-old shitty Firebender before the finale
you mean Zuko? he is 16 years old. And you're out of your mind if you think the firelord is weak. He is royalty, much more likely to be trained by the best, like all of his family. Every member of the royal family is trained, but you believe Ozai is not? Not only that he had the fucking Sozin's comet on his side. Defeating him is just impossible for Aang.
>Aang has repeatedly defeated more experienced opponents
not really. The mooks from the fire nation are said to be untrained. Literally anyone can join them. The only others Aang was fighting was Azula and Zuko. Zuko was clearly weaker, since Aang was an airbending master and Zuko didn't even master firebending, but Azula even defeated Aang one time and he had to flee multiple times.
>he and Ozai are only as strong as the writers decide they are
even if it doesn't make sense?
>Which he was only able to do because of the rock
my original point is that it wasn't deus ex. You already agree that it wasn't.
>>77523092
>It was to activate the AS so they could kill her and end the cycle. That is pretty obvious.
yes, which means it's not 'instant-death poison'
>it's not like he planned on getting airbending it just so happened that he did get it
well, it certainly looks like that sometimes
>Both Aang and Katara got better at waterbending after getting their hands on the scroll
Katara didn't do anything different with the scroll. She still needed Aang to protect her, and she still lost miserably against her master (while Zaheer could somehow hold his own against Tenzin, at least not 'losing miserably').
>Good thing i specificly said it wasn't easy
you said "the technique is easy, but the mindset is hard". That just doesn't work, because you simply need to have someone without a girlfriend for the mindset. If the technique is as easy as you said, someone else should have done it.
>Tenzin thought it was a myth, so they didn't think it was possible
i'm talking about people thousands of years into the past. The guru had many followers, to begin with.
>because Zaheer thought Korra was "evil" he wouldn't need to be attached to the idea of ridding the world of her
this means he is atached to the idea of 'good' in the first place. It's all about perspective, and only that. He is still atached to the red lotus. He still likes air nomad culture. He still wants to go to the spirit world. He still got angry when he wasn't able to kill Korra. Actually, it would be easy to find people with much less atachment than him.
>>77523404
>yes, which means it's not 'instant-death poison'
Didn't say it was. I said it was meant to activate the AS so they could kill her instantly. But as we see that plan fails because Korra holds back the AS.
>well, it certainly looks like that sometimes
Not at all. He was just an Airoboo.
>while Zaheer could somehow hold his own against Tenzin, at least not 'losing miserably'
You should rewatch the fight. I even think Zaheer did worse against Tenzin than Katara did against Paku. And Katara did improve her waterbending after the scroll by the things she was able to do afterwards.
>you said "the technique is easy, but the mindset is hard".
Yeah, which translates to "being able to fly i very very hard.". And you clearly don't understand how hard it is to be completely detached. It just happened to be his girlfriend in Zaheers case, but there is obviously more things than that to be detached from, such as fame, glory, goals etc. All of which Zaheer could have been detached from before his waifu died.
>The guru had many followers, to begin with.
That is conjecture as we have no idea how many followers Laghima had. And as i said it's very hard to reach that level of detachment so it clearly turned into myth.
>this means he is atached to the idea of 'good' in the first place.
He doesn't need to be attached to the idea to realise it. You also seem to not understand that you can be detached and still like or care about things. The only thing i can agree with is "He still got angry when he wasn't able to kill Korra." which happened at the end, which i also said was bad.
>>77522502
>So it was a rare airbending technique that requires great sacrifice, there's nothing that implies you have to be very good at airbending to do it.
I'm gonna jump into this conversation because this is a huge pet peeve of mine -
Look, him being a "special Snowflake" that can fly is bitter no matter how you look at it, but I especially hate it because, a mere episode beforehand, he got his ass kicked by Tenzin. After blasting mooks left and right he met a man who'd trained all his life in Airbending and couldn't compete. It was a great moment that grounded Zaheer's character.
Now to have him IMMEDIATELY unlock the power afterwards feels cheap because it doesn't mesh with what we'd seen beforehand. We'd seen Zaheer get beat down, we can see that he has limits, and then for him to unlock a power that even Master Tenzin thought was impossible rubs me the wrong way.
I mean, if he'd been a special snowflake from the start and tore Tenzin apart we'd have probably called bullshit on nerfing Tenzin, but then him unlocking flight wouldn't have seemed like such a cheap power-up because it'd be clear that he was something special from the start.
>>77523178
>this would nulify even the day Aang has left the iceberg
No, because that starts the main story and conflict for Aang.
>not a deus ex
For one, it's Deus Ex Machina - "Deus Ex" is not a term. Secondly, it absolutely is. The Lion Turtle is a nigh-literal god coming down and solving the conflict.
>>77523178
>you mean Zuko? he is 16 years old.
He was 13 when he fought Ozai. Royalty doesn't mean jack shit; Zuko is royalty and he was the second-weakest of thr Gaang. Tons of weaker characters than Aang took down comet-powered Firebenders.
>even if it doesn't make sense?
But it makes perfect sense for the Fire Lord to be kept out of battle as much as possible. Rulers rarely fight on the front lines themselves.
>You already agree that it wasn't
What are you talking about? I never said anything remotely like that.
They're both instances of something suddenly showing up at the end and solving the conflict for the protagonist. That's Deus Ex Machina.
>>77523552
>Didn't say it was
you kind of did, but whatever, the problem is exactly counting that she will get to the avatar state and everything will be okay.
> I even think Zaheer did worse against Tenzin than Katara did against Paku
I think Tenzin wasn't able to get even one clean hit on Zaheer, if i'm not mistaken.
>which translates to "being able to fly i very very hard."
not really, if all you need is to 'think positive' or 'think of nothing at all'. It's not hard at all to detach yourself. Where i live i know some people that are part of some.. "philosopher's guild" or some shit. I had to watch some conferences with them and they understand perfectly this detachment, at least looks like it. It's really not that difficult. You talk about 'glory' or 'goals', but what kind of glory/goal an air nomad that doesn't do shit all day will have? seriously, it's ridiculous to say that's difficult at all, or even that zaheer was able to be completely out of detachment even when he had clear goals of killing Korra to help the nations.
>That is conjecture as we have no idea how many followers Laghima had
we actually see him with his followers in the Wan episodes, floating.
>You also seem to not understand that you can be detached and still like or care about things
by that logic he doesn't even need to get his girlfriend killed to start flying.
>which happened at the end, which i also said was bad.
in the end or not, this means he was killing Korra out of emotion/goal/whatever, which means that he didn't detach at all (at least not in the level you want). Basically i'm right and the entire fight doesn't make sense.
>>77523760
I can understand where you're coming from, but it just doesn't seem to have anything to do with how good of an airbender you are.
I can also understand that if there had been a longer period of time between Zaheer getting beaten and getting flying it would have been better.
But as it is, the ability to fly seems to "only" require the ability to airbend, and to be detached enough. And as it is Tenzin could never be detached enough because he has a family and a mission given to him by Aang. Tenzin is obviously very attached to bringing back the airbenders and making Aang proud. He is also attached to the idea of leading and teaching the airbenders and acolytes. So even if he is well versed in the theoretical stuff of airbending, and is even a master at the martial side, he would never be able to achieve flight because he is too attached.
On the other hand Zaheer is a person who seems to detached from pretty much everything except for his girlfriend. Even if he is all about anarchy he never takes any responsibility for it. He never stay around to make sure it works out. He just does what he thinks the universe needs to have happen for that reason alone (except for the end where he kinda breaks character and Bolin makes a sock joke).
>>77523935
> the problem is exactly counting that she will get to the avatar state and everything will be okay.
They tried to reconstruct the fight between Aang and Azula when she hit him with lightning. Only they tried to stack it in their favour even more with chains and poison.
>I think Tenzin wasn't able to get even one clean hit on Zaheer, if i'm not mistaken.
He hit Zaheer plenty of times, knocked him around a lot actually. Never knock-outet him though because Zaheer tried to dodge and block.
>It's not hard at all to detach yourself.
You don't understand detachment. It's about letting go of everything that drives you. It's not about lazing about. You can still do things, love things and care about things, but you don't dwell on it. You don't identify yourself with these things in any way. It is extremely hard to the point that even striving for detachment is wrong, because you attached to the idea of being detached.
Everything Zaheer did was because it needed to be done, not because he wanted to do it shown by him never claiming credit for the things he does.
>we actually see him with his followers in the Wan episodes, floating.
Pretty sure we don't see him at all.
>by that logic he doesn't even need to get his girlfriend killed to start flying.
True, if he could detach himself from her, but as we see he couldn't. Which is why when she died he let go of her and achieved flight.
>Basically i'm right and the entire fight doesn't make sense.
It makes sense until the moments Bryke fucked up again. So technicly you're right, but up until that point there is nothing wrong with Zaheer getting flight or being above average at airbending.
>>77523843
>No, because that starts the main story and conflict for Aang.
it saves him from living in the iceberg
>it absolutely is. The Lion Turtle is a nigh-literal god coming down and solving the conflict
are we talking about energybending or the avatar state? as i said, if it is the avatar state, Aang had this power before so it's not a deus ex. And if it is the energybending, it didn't save Aang since he didn't have to take Ozai's bending to defeat him. So either way, it's not a deus ex.
>Royalty doesn't mean jack shit; Zuko is royalty and he was the second-weakest of thr Gaang
Azula defeated Aang, then Zuko defeated Azula. Saying that he is weak is just wrong. Not only that, as i said, Aang was a master airbender way before the series even start, which is already a good advantage. Actually, that's the reason Aang doesn't get killed from the get go since people don't really have experience against airbending. But i doubt this will make a lot of difference against the firelord on steroids. Throwing wind when the guy can burn the entire land is useless.
>Tons of weaker characters than Aang took down comet-powered Firebenders
the only one i can think of is Sokka, and he had help. And as i said, untrained mooks from the fire nation.
>it makes perfect sense for the Fire Lord to be kept out of battle as much as possible
his brother and his brother's son were going to suceed as firelord, and Iroh was a general. His son and his daughter were training for battle as well and even were part of the war. Saying that royalty had nothing to do with that war is just wrong. Even in his position as firelord, he was in the front lines in the end burning the land, and i doubt he would do that if he wasn't trained. Hell, he is there with his generals to make plans to attack. He clearly has military experience. Not only that, the avatar comes alone to fight him and instead of calling his troops, he fights the avatar alone, meaning he is confident on his skills.
>>77517099
Spoiler alert, they make Korra a Lesbian in a such a hamfisted way that no one could possibly consider it a natural peice of character development and the creators respond with "HOMOPHOBE! IF YOU DONT LIKE IT YOU H8 LGBTQIABLTOMGWTF!"
Skip it.
>>77524079
>They tried to reconstruct the fight between Aang and Azula when she hit him with lightning
the only thing they did is to make the red lotus look completely retarded
>He hit Zaheer plenty of times
not really. We only see zaheer running most of the fight, and even able to dodge and block Tenzin. So it's far from losing miserably, like Katara did, a level that he shouldn't be.
>You can still do things, love things and care about things, but you don't dwell on it
that's basically the philosophers near home. Seriously, it's not hard.
>Everything Zaheer did was because it needed to be done
He believes in what he was doing, it wasn't objectively good at all so it's not something that "has to be done" like taking the trash, or sleeping. Not only that, it bites everyone in the ass in the forth season, with Zaheer admitting it didn't turn out as he expected. He believed in something and wanted to kill Korra for his beliefs. That's it.
>shown by him never claiming credit for the things he does
a lot of crimminals never claim credit for what they did.
>Pretty sure we don't see him at all
we see a guy floating and his followers. Most likely, the guru.
>True, if he could detach himself from her, but as we see he couldn't
why the fact that she is alive or dead changes that? i mean, even if she dies he should feel bad about it if he was atached in the first place.
>>77524149
>it saves him from living in the iceberg
That's not a conflict.
Energybending and the rock are both DEM.
>>77524318
>That's not a conflict.
it saves him from dying in an iceberg
>Energybending and the rock are both DEM
you're not presenting a rebuttal to the points i made.
>>77517099
nice b8 m8
>>77524312
>the only thing they did is to make the red lotus look completely retarded
How? They're recreating the only example of an avatar being defeated in recent history. And even then they're trying to make things even more in their favour.
>So it's far from losing miserably, like Katara did, a level that he shouldn't be.
Zaheer got destroyed with no chance of winning in his fight with Tenzin. Katara actually was allowed some "go-girl" moments in her fight. So Zaheer is pretty low-tier airbender.
>Seriously, it's not hard.
Except it is. There are only a handful of people in history who are believed to have achieved this state. I can almost garantee that none of your neighbor philosophers have achieved comeplete detachment.
>He believes in what he was doing, it wasn't objectively good at all so it's not something that "has to be done" like taking the trash, or sleeping
Thats the points though. In his mind it was just like taking out the trash. You might not agree with him, but that doesn't really matter, because to him it's not his personal opinion. And yeah he reaslises later that he might have been wrong, but that doesn't change his mindset in the moment.
>a lot of crimminals never claim credit for what they did.
A lot of them still have an either positive or negative opinion about what they did.
>we see a guy floating and his followers.
Which episode because i can't find it in the Wan episodes.
>why the fact that she is alive or dead changes that?
If she's alive he has a thing to be attached to. With her dead it is easier to let go of that attachment. And he does feel sad for about a second, but because he is so detached generally he is able to let that feeling go almost immediately and gains flight.
>>77524557
>recreating
i don't remember Aang being binded in chains loose enough for him to move while people were trying to force him to use the avatar state expecting him to do nothing with it.
>Zaheer got destroyed with no chance of winning in his fight with Tenzin
it's not about winning, it's about blocking and dodging all attacks. Katara was completely defeated.
> I can almost garantee that none of your neighbor philosophers have achieved comeplete detachment
just because you say so? you're the one that can tell who is detached and who isn't now? or how hard it is? it doesn't have to be hard. Thinking of "nothing at all" should be enough actually, since it's just a state of mind. It's not like the power of flight will analyse all of your life and see "woa, this guy still cares about his mother deep down inside". Staying in complete peace is achievable and technically is even further than 'detachment'. Just stay there. Do nothing. Think nothing. Hell, Tenzin does that. Is the power of flight going to deny him because it has a notebook with all of his background on it to tell if he still cares about his children?
>In his mind it was just like taking out the trash
One question: why do you think it was like that for him? i mean, if someone rapes another person will you think that he did it because "he had to"? or because "he wanted to"? it's much more likely that it was because he wanted to, so why consider it was because he 'had to in his mind'? you're trying to rationalize the ending of S03, but you're ignoring the obvious. Zaheer wanted to kill somoene. This is a goal. That's an atachment.
>A lot of them still have an either positive or negative opinion about what they did.
what i mean is that 'not claiming credit' cannot be used as an argument.
>Which episode because i can't find it in the Wan episodes.
will look for it later, but i'm almost sure it's there when Wan goes to visit the air nomads.
>>77524557
>If she's alive he has a thing to be attached to
if she is dead, he still have a thing to be atached to. Many people are atached to their loved ones even after they died. It's almost mandatory, actually. It just looks like Zaheer didn't even really care about her and go "you know what? screw it". It's either not even an atachment in the first place, or an atachment he didn't really let go/normally wouldn't let go.
>>77524858
>i don't remember Aang
No he had completely free movement and nothing holding him back. So by adding the chains alone they're better prepared than Azula. Then ofcourse they also poisoned Korra which gives them a further advantage and they're 3 people ready to kill her. So yeah they improved on the situation and underestimated Korra, it happens.
>Katara was completely defeated.
She almost cut off Paku head/beard with an ice blade. That is closer than anything Zaheer managed to do against Tenzin. Remember also that Katara managed to block and dodge Paku. Zaheer definately did worse against Tenzin than Katara did against Paku.
>just because you say so?
Whatever. Lets say it's just because is say so, it's not like there are huge religions dedicated to this type of thinking where it takes multiple lifetimes to achieve this state of mind. Or perhaps you just don't get it and doesn't realise how hard it actually is.
>This is a goal. That's an atachment.
Not for Zaheer, it's not his goal. It's an objective analyses that he made and realised that someone had to do it, might aswell be him if no one else is going to. It's not because he wants or needs to do it. It's because it has to be done by someone.
>what i mean is that 'not claiming credit' cannot be used as an argument.
What? Ofcourse it can. If you work towards something you would want to claim credit for achieving it. If you are proud of someone you feel connected to them. If you're detached you don't claim credit, and you don't feel pride.
>will look for it later, but i'm almost sure it's there when Wan goes to visit the air nomads.
From what i looked through moments ago there wasn't.
>if she is dead, he still have a thing to be atached to.
Nothing there to remind him anymore he can just let go of the memory and no longer be attached. And the follow up is exactly the thing, a detached person doesn't react tearfully, he doesn't grieve because he has detached himself from these things.
>>77524858
>>77524896
>>77525089
Anyway i doubt you're going to get it by listening to me, so if you care go find out more about this type of thinking.
It's quite clear that you won't let go of Zaheer being a "convenient" villain so i'll just drop it now.
>>77525089
>he had completely free movement and nothing holding him back
you're forgetting Azula didn't capture Aang like the red lotus did with Korra, she just found him and was fighting him, and even able to 'kill' him. The red lotus were able to capture her, and retarded enough not to restrain her right. It's a very different situation.
>almost cut off Paku head/beard with an ice blade
he avoided it easily and defeated her like it was nothing.
>Katara managed to block and dodge Paku
in the end of that fight she was on the ground defeated (or was it inside an iceblock?). Zaheer was still standing.
>it's not like there are huge religions dedicated to this type of thinking where it takes multiple lifetimes to achieve this state of mind
"i'm right because religion says so". "this religion is canon on ATLA universe". "Even if the people you know seemingly doesn't have any atachments, they must have some atachment that we don't know of".
>Not for Zaheer, it's not his goal
Oxford dictionary, goal: "The object of a person’s ambition or effort; an aim or desired result". Zaheer wanted the nations to be free; that's his desired result. If he killed Korra to get to that result, this means he had a goal. Actually, anything you do can be considered as made for some goal. If he eats, he is too atached to life. It's not 'something he has to do'. Life shouldn't mean shit for you if you're detached from it so you eat just to stay alive.
>If you work towards something you would want to claim credit for achieving it
that's wrong. Many people donate without claiming credit for it. The person is not detached just because he didn't raise his hand in the air and said to everyone he donated to charity.
>>77517099
Don't do it. Not even if you have nothing else to watch. Korra pretty much killed the magic of ATLA for me and I would not recommend it to anyone who liked ATLA. It shits all over everything you love about Avatar.
>>77517768
You will regret it.
>>77524439
>it saves him from dying in an iceberg
That's backstory. It's not the conflict of the story, but the set-up.
>>77524439
I already did. You keep ignoring them and going in circles.
They both handed Aang free victories at the last minute. Those are textbook DEM. A protagonist who wins just because they were born with better powers and got extremely lucky is a worthless story that says nothing. It's just "Wham! Pow! Look at the cool element punches!"
>>77524149
>Azula defeated Aang
She sucker-punched him while he was distracted. That hardly counts as a demonstration that she's stronger.
And Zuko never defeated Azula. The closest he got to doing so was when she was visibly unhinged and unfocused.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmUi8YkPTxE
There, best thing to come out of Korra. I just saved you four seasons of disappointment.
![9f9[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/CUHDFwT.jpg "9f9[1].jpg")
>>77524149
>Azula defeated Aang, then Zuko defeated Azula.
Everyone knows Korra is shit, but what is there out there that answers the other question: recommendations for something similar? Not even in tone, if that's a problem - just well written, with characters that grow and change and themes that mean something?inb4 Steven Universe
>>77526918
Someone mentioned Wakfu.
>>77526611
>That's backstory
it's in the show. So it's in the current story; it's not some kind of flashback.
>They both handed Aang free victories at the last minute. Those are textbook DEM
'handing easy victory' is different from deus ex. If this was true superman defeating anyone should be considered deus ex simply because of how easy it was. Deus ex occurs when some new adition saves the charater, some hidden power or concept that we never saw before. We clearly know about the avatar state at that point, and we know that getting hit on that point can activate/deactivate it. So no, it's not a deus ex.
>>77526971
That's a fair recommendation, but is it the only one?
>>77526730
>She sucker-punched him while he was distracted
No excuses.
>And Zuko never defeated Azula
he kinda of does in the comics.
>>77527005
Not sure, i honestly don't watch many cartoons
>>77526998
>it's in the show. So it's in the current story; it's not some kind of flashback.
But it's not what the story is about. The main conflict starts after Aang wakes up. If he stays frozen, there's no story for him. Being frozen isn't even a conflict for Aang, because there's no agency involved on his part.
>>77526998
>'handing easy victory' is different from deus ex.
It's not.
>>77527025
>No excuses
That's retarded logic.
>kind of
>in the comics
>>77526998
>Deus ex occurs when some new adition saves the charater, some hidden power or concept that we never saw before.
That's exactly what energybending is.
And no, we are never shown that hitting that spot would fix it.
In the Superman example, a story where Superman overcomes the main conflict easily is a shitty story.
STOP MAKING THIS THREAD WITH DIFFERENT PICTURYES
ITS DRVING ME MAD
>Korra
It's an ok show, not as good as you might expect but also not as bad as people make it seem. Season 1 and 3 are the only one worth it. If anything I'm just a bit salty with the gay ending.
A different variation of this exact topic gets made every three days. I know a lot of people do nothing but lurk, but that's just ridiculous.
>>77517281
I agree
>>77517099
Korra is basically the starwars prequels.
It ruins the lore, mythos, has flat and poorly written characters, and at points nonsensical storylines. If you do watch it, just do season one, that one is at least harmless.
>>77517768
Korra is fantastic. And anybody who says otherwise and to rewatch season 1 and 2 of atla and realize how slow and childish they are compared to the realworld problems an avatar would face.
It took ang 3 seasons to become fully realized, so you dont get to see him hand responsibility or politics.
Korra is filly realized by the end of season 1 and we get to delve into the trials and tribulations an avatar would have in a more modern day and age.
I loved Korra and i hate seeing, So many people on /co rag on her.
>>77532804
Season 2 of TLa is fantastic.
Korra makes no sense as a character. How does she understand fire and earth bending at 5? Aang was told at 12 and he only knew airbending until Katara showed him. also, in season 1 there was this whole issue raised by the monks of telling aang he was the avatar at 12 nstead of 16, the result was the psychological and mental pressure had a massive impact on him, almost proving too much. Even Roku,who was told at 16 was taken aback by it. so imagine the mental stress of telling a 5 year old she's the Avatar.
>>77532722
>lore
What lore? There is no lore.
>>77532804
>we get to delve into the trials and tribulations an avatar would have in a more modern day and age.
Except not at all. None of the complex ideas brought up are actually explored; the bad guy is just evil, and Korra just wins by pulling new powers out of her ass or getting rescued by other characters.
>>77532804
>so you dont get to see him hand responsibility or politics.
We don't see Korra do this either.
