vegan thread? vegan thread.
I'm vegetarian, but I want to be vegan. Currently I eat cereal with milk for breakfast. what's a good vegan breakfast? what do vegans eat cereal with?
never heard of soy or nut milk?
>>7164666
yeah i've had soy milk, it's ok.
just wondering about alternatives
what nut milk?
You should consider talking to a doctor about your eating disorder.
>>7164669
fuck you you fuck
did you know that in order for dairy cows to keep producing milk, the cows have to be made pregnant over an over again? and when their calves are born they are killed?
>>7164673
Everyone knows that. Cows don't get their feelings hurt
>>7164683
they morn their dead children
>>7164673
>and when their calves are born they are killed?
And they are delicious. I thank them for their tasty sacrifice.
>>7164657
that thing is fucking creepy
i thought the vegan fad died out in like 2010
what the fuck are you still doing here?
go eat some bananas you skinny fuck
>>7164673
And if we wouldn't breed them they would never even exist, so they would be dead either way.
checkmate vegans
>>7164668
Deez nutz milk
>>7164657
Sadness
Reminder you hate animals and want them to die out
>>7164717
I love animals and want them to die out. The dead cannot suffer.
Personally I usually eat one of the following - oatmeal, 6-7 bananas (and some clementines usually), 20-30 clementines and a few bananas, Natures Path sunrise maple flavor, banana ice cream (rare, I get sick of it even with some cocoa), and probably some sort of mixed fruit in large quantity.
I just bought my first box of 40lbs of bananas. Got ripped off because I was a dolt and thought it was per pound and not each, so I paid $30 for a case instead of $15-20. Opps.
I'd recommend oats with blueberries, some (blueberry) preserves, and a little coconut sugar is what I prefer.
If you can't tell, what I'd eat cereal with, other than one of the below (likely soymilk) it would be fruit.
>>7164668
There's also oat milk, rice milk, almond milk, cashew milk, hemp milk, etc.
Personally I use soy usually, although I don't use much of it in anything honestly.
>>7164724
exterminate all life = no future suffering
>>7164701
GOT EEEM
>>7164701
B O O M
O
O
M
One thing I love for breakfast is avocado chocolate pudding. There are a million recipes for it but they're almost all vegan. Also soy lattes. Toast with olive oil (I say this because margarine is shit and butter is out) or Vegemite or cashew cheese or hummus (the latter two are inedible easy to make and much cheaper and tastier if fresh)
Also fruit.
And oatmeal.
And almond milk is really good if homemade.
Oh man overnight oats with homemade almond milk and dates and maybe some almond butter and bananas and maple syrup. Perfection.
Oats cooked with water and fruit
I'm vegan.
>work days
I don't eat breakfast, I have 2 to 3 giant cups of black coffee.
For lunch I have 3 peanut butter and jelly sandwiches($7 for 2 weeks of lunch)
For dinner I have more extravagant shit or leftovers. A lot of Italian, Indian, Mexican, and Chinese food can be adapted to be vegan if it isn't naturally. Bean burgers and fries are an easy staple, salads, a pita with hummus, mustard and fresh vegetables does well too. Macaroni and "cheese" takes only as long as your noodles do.
>Days off
If I eat breakfast it's usually tofu scramble, biscuits and gravy, waffles, fruits, and a cup of almond milk or Orange juice. And 5-7 cups of coffee.
Lunch? Who has time for that bullshit?
Dinner? You mean beer and whatever I can throw in the oven while I'm working on something else? I made hush puppies last weekend, shit was cash.
It ain't hard to switch from vegetarian to vegan if you know how to cook. Don't buy into vegan substitutes for most things ,they're over priced, don't taste like what they're mimicking, and don't taste good in their own right. Exclusions to that include yves hot dogs, which when thrown on a bun with sauerkraut and caramelized onion can fool someone who exists off a pack of ballparks a day.
http://ohsheglows.com/2015/07/22/vegan-overnight-oats/
This website has a lot of good recipes that are mostly very healthy too
>>7164886
You reminded me, I also have ezekiel bread or somethin' with some blueberry preserves or a tiny bit of butter if I burnt it instead, or just eat it plain.
I rarely ever have waffles or pancakes though as they're just too much effort for one person when I haven't tried freezing them before, although they're just as easy as ever in my opinion.
>>7164895
>I don't eat breakfast, I have 2 to 3 giant cups of black coffee.
Why not just eat some bananas? They're just as, if not easier, and healthier, and will likely give you lasting energy.
>Don't buy into vegan substitutes for most things ,they're over priced, don't taste like what they're mimicking
I'd disagree with this, gardein's (battered) chicken aren't all that bad. They aren't great for you, or maybe even good (relatively), but taste wise they're the best frozen chicken (or fake chicken) product I've ever had I think, and I used to eat a lot of them, tried 'em all. They're better than real meat at least though.
They're about the same because they have more flavor in my opinion. Instead of eating a plate of chicken, have a plate of potatoes with a few gardein's.
Again, not ideal, and it's not what I typically do, but they aren't really overpriced in comparison nor do they not taste like the real deal in my experience.
>>7164701
Almond milk
>>7164697
>Living multiple generations just to get killed over and over again
>In a piece of shit of an environment
They would exist, if we didn't hunt them to extinction over 400 years ago.
400 years of that shit must be pretty swagger, so glad we allow them to live
Eat your veggies
You will be nice & strong
![Ezekiel1[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/0hdvneP.jpg "Ezekiel1[1].jpg")
>>7165040
Ezekiel bread is GOAT.
A while ago I made dark cherry and raspberry purees for a thanksgiving thing I didn't get around to making. Ended up buying some Ezekiel cinnamon raisin and some natty peanut butter and making a PB&J with the purees. Sweet cherries, tart raspberries. So damn good, and it looked beautiful.
>>7164673
lol who gives a fuck
>>7164657
Fried soy eggs and soy bacon alongside a nice glass of soy milk.
![Laughing-Frog-Meme-08[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/Uknfut3.png "Laughing-Frog-Meme-08[1].png")
>>7165261
>go into vegan thread
>say they eat semen as an insult
>oblivious to the irony that semen is an animal product
Your favorite, non-vegan buddy.
>>7164673
>waaaaaaah
This is what everyone else hears when you talk.
>>7165283
He he he, he doesn't pay people to torture animals. What a wimp!
>>7164695
Plant based diets have been around for centuries you mong.
>>7165281
Sure doesn't stop every single vegan from guzzling buckets of cum.
>>7165310
>he's a crybaby over how he got his food
So he's weak and a "poor hunter"? If you're bothered about your food having to suffer and die to feed you then you should thank your meal for its sacrifice be it plant or animal.
>>7164657
As a vegetarian, I suggest that you don't try to go vegan. It is not worth it.
>>7166120
>as a little whinny shit who just as meat eaters cant give up meat, cant give up being breastfed by a cow, i tell you dont be what i should actually aim to be because i lack the willpower to do it ok...
retard
>>7166032
I'm sure a tear rolls down your check before each bite of ham
Can we talk about poop?
I've been vegan for about a month and I take three shits a day and it takes about 3 minutes each time. It's glorious.
>>7164657
Toast with peanut butter is superior to cereal in every way.
>>7164697
And that would be a much better world. Animal agriculture is one of the major causes for global warming.
>>7166594
That's wrong though.
Agriculture as a whole is less than 20% of the contribution to global warming, and meat production, and grain production for animals, represents about a third of that 20%.
If you can, with a straight face, say that 7% of total greenhouse gas production is a 'major cause' then I guess you are not wrong. However I think that's pretty deceitful.
Cars and airplanes really are worse for the environment than meat production some ten times over.
>>7166620
http://www.worldwatch.org/node/6294
>A widely cited 2006 report by the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization, Livestock's Long Shadow, estimates that 18 percent of annual worldwide GHG emissions are attributable to cattle, buffalo, sheep, goats, camels, pigs, and poultry. But recent analysis by Goodland and Anhang finds that livestock and their byproducts actually account for at least 32.6 billion tons of carbon dioxide per year, or 51 percent of annual worldwide GHG emissions.
>>7166626
http://dels.nas.edu/resources/static-assets/banr/AnimalProductionMaterials/HerreroLivestockGreenhouseGasEmissions.pdf
>"It (Goodland and Anhang's study) has emphasized the negative impacts without highlighting the positives and, in doing so, has used a methodological approach which we believe to be flawed."
>“[The authors] continuously fail to consider concepts considered essential in professional environmental assessment"
Two can play at this game, bud.
>>7166672
>International Livestock Research Institute
kek
>Emphasized the negative impacts without highlighting the positives
what are the positives these meat industry representatives are talking about? yeah it's destroying the world, but it tastes good?
>why I reject veganism
It's a restrictive ideology, as opposed to a prescriptive ideology. That is to say, a vegan would say it's morally wrong for me to eat animal products and anyone who does is committing an immoral act. Contrast this to, say, Buddhist vegetarianism, which argues that killing an animal for meat is immoral, but that if one were served meat at a friend's house, refusing the hospitality and the waste of food is more of an immoral act. I think restrictive ideologies which paint the world in black and white terms lack subtlety and nuance and therefore are not acceptable for a complete philosophy.
There is no ethical consumption under capitalism. As long as capitalism ensures that animals, including human animals, are exploited for capital production there is a breach of ethics. I'm not sure why vegans seem to think that cattle production is a more pressing issue than child slavery in Mexico for your nice fresh tomatoes, but that's some definite exploitation of animals there.
It's almost always based on moralistic arguments, which are important but aren't hard science. I much prefer the agricultural arguments as there can be reasoned debate based on evidence.
It's kinda racist. A lot of vegans espouse that the whole world should be vegan. This directly impacts the culture of any number of people around the world. Tibetan goat-herders, the Maasai, Inuit, Mongolian nomads, Faroe Islanders (to name but a few) could not survive on a vegan diet as their existence is utterly dependent on animal products. In addition, in the 3rd world people do not have such a luxurious choice about their food sources. You eat what is available, and if that is milk powder blocks from UN aid in Africa, or a rice-paddy rat in Cambodia you're going to eat it. I do not think survival can possibly be a morally abhorrent act. Is the cannibalism of the rugby team caught in the Andes morally abhorrent? I would say not.
>>7166732
Sounds like fear of commitment above all else. I agree with you about survival though, and that includes other things than eating animals. If a group of people are starving somewhere with no food in sight, is it immoral if they kill one of the group in order to eat him and survive? It's hard to say that's an immoral act when it's a strictly life-or-death scenario, while on the other hand we would probably both agree that Jeffrey Dahmer's actions were immoral.
I don't think it's a reasonable thing to do to bring up some other issue going on in the world, "child slavery in Mexico," to ignore any other issue, such as this one. You don't have to pick one thing at a time to care about, especially when taking action is as easy as walking past the meat section into the dry goods section for a package of kidney beans, which saves you money and is better for your health anyway.
>>7164657
>vegan
>milk
>>7166812
I don't think it's a reasonable thing to do to bring up some other issue going on in the world, "meat production in the West," to ignore any other issue, such as this one.
There is the exploitation of animals in producing vegetables. What, precisely, is the difference? The factor of death? In that case is the accidental death of animals in harvesting a lesser exploitation? Is the (unpaid, unrewarded) work of humans a lesser exploitation of animals? In that case, is milk, cheese and egg production a lesser exploitation?
What about mussels and oysters, which do not have a recognizable nervous system? Does it even count as a death if one eats them?
Do the tiny deaths of crickets and locusts outweigh their nutritional density and ease of raising?
I have no desire to commit to a vegan lifestyle for the points that I raised, in that it is hypocritical, privileged and may not even be effective. I don't expect anyone to care about one single thing, but I do expect people to be consistent in their beliefs.
>>7166845
>I don't think it's a reasonable thing to do to bring up some other issue going on in the world, "meat production in the West," to ignore any other issue, such as this one.
Who's ignoring other issues? This is what I disagree with, trying to find some other fault to blindly attribute to others to avoid dealing with the obvious faults in your own behavior. Like I said, you can care about more than one thing at a time. If someone is aware of an issue like that with the source of the vegetables they buy and alternate sources are available to them, yes, they should be expected to buy from the alternate source. With meat, the issue is obvious and the alternatives are widely available and better in nearly every way.
>>7166443
No, because I'm not a toddler like you.
>>7166572
I still shit once a day because I tell my ass "no," which I should really stop, but every single time it's a huge clean poo that is solid and often crumbles in the toilet, which I heard is actually good.
No more sticky ass-leak inducing 20minute shitfests.
>>7166895
What a faggot.
Toddlers are amaaaazing.
>>7166934
Holy fuck the amount of bananas....
>>7164673
>the cows have to be made pregnant over an over again?
What is the point of this statement. Did you know the beef industry breeds and kills cows over and over and over again as well? That seems to be how animal husbandry works. Get them pregnant, eat, repeat.
>>7164724
Calm down PETA.
>>7166967
That's for a family though. I'm one person, this is my current supply. About 110bananas. I'm a little low on 'cuties though, and have about 8 mangos in the closet. I really need to get some more pomegranates...
You can never have too many bananas.
:3
>>7167012
How much does 110 bananas cost?
>>7167051
Depends on the type, in my area about $18-20, $24~ for organic, just at the local grocery stores.
Personally I got non-organic since it's my first case, and because the organic ones here have been funky recently and I know these will be alright.
It's about 11000-12000 calories, so that's extremely cheap, especially when compared to anything out to eat, which may only be 1000-1200 calories for $14~ here, including the white rice you might get.
I think I'll start buying a case a week if this works out well, any extras I could give to my litt- cousins before they go bad. They never buy enough fruit...
>>7167075
I was going to ask if this is you month supply or smth, but 110 bananas a week? You eat 15 bananas EVERY fucking day?
>>7167097
N-no, I usually eat 6-10 for breakfast, but I am thinking of increasing it (through lunch) or simply freezing it.
I'm sure someone will steal some bananas anyways.
>>7166934
>wanting to be like a child
I bet your "wall candy" is vegan.
>>7164657
water
You could either not live an unnatural lifestyle and instead give these animals lives meaning when they die rather than let their meat go to waste, or you could just eat the cereal with almond milk. Tastes exactly like regular milk only with a slight tinge of almond.
>>7164657
>>7169037
I honor the buffalo, deer and rabbit by eating them and wearing their fur.
>>7166304
Except I did not give up meat - I've never eaten any.
>>7169113
I bet this will get your stomach growling for some delicious red meat.
>>7164657
>>7164683
i wonder how you know that for a fact.
context: i work with cow on a milk farm
>>7169354
>i wonder how you know that for a fact.
I'm a cow
>>7164668
Try pure orange juice or anything sweet - bread with jam or something. Small and tasty to wake the senses. Also kills the need for sugar of the rest of the day. Breakfast is totally unnecessary however, make most of that fasted morning high.
Some advice on being a vegan:
1) Avoid meat/milk/animal substitutes like soy milk or quorn. They require high processing and just sate animal cravings without letting you break out of the omnivorous mould and eating habits.
2) Focus on fats (largely mono-unsaturated) and vegetables - avocado, olives, olive oil (to sauté, dress, season, purée, condiment...) and any and all veg - greater variety the better.
3) Eat MODERATE protein and carbs - nuts, beans, wholegrains, hummus, seeds. These are fucking essential to get complete protein and nutrition but they arent your fuel. Eat what you need and dont go overboard. Fruit is good now and then but too sugary to be a staple.
Most of my vegan friends live on refined carbs and fruit and are closer to malnutrition than any omnivore. Minimise the cereal/bread/etc because that shit is dead weight nutritionally and can easily tip the scales on a balanced, virtuous diet.
>>7169148
What a qt
>Fucking love eggs
>Fucking love cheese
>After 22 years body suddenly decided it's allergic to eggs, makes me nauseous when I eat them and makes my stomach gurgle
>Again, suddenly dishes with a lot of cheese makes my stomach (like, actual stomach and not abdomen) bloat and it fucking hurts
Fuck man I hate this. I guess my body wants me to become a semi-vegan. I can still drink cows milk at least but who knows how long that'll last. At least I can eat baked dishes which contain eggs, I made some pumpkin bread recently and I didn't feel like dying after eating those.
I was forced to be a vegetarian from birth and still can't get used to most meats. The flavour/texture is just too much for me unfortunately. While I didn't really eat eggs/cheese all that often I at least got protein from those. What the fuck do I do with tofu? And then nuts/seeds/certain veggies are high in protein as well right?
>>7164684
stop anthropomorphizing animals
>>7164673
I don't really see the issue in this? A large portion of the world's population consumes milk and beef. In order to get milk, the cow needs to create a baby and if male, the baby will be used for beef and if female, maybe be allowed to grow and then also used for creating milk/beef.
I completely understand that due to overpopulation this has to be done frequently, but that can't really be helped so all you can do is suck it up and accept that's what happens.
>>7169817
>if male, the baby will be used for beef and if female
Maybe that's the way it worked on a mom-n-pop farm 100 years ago, but not these days. Dairy cattle are a different breed than beef cattle.
>>7169811
>humans are animals
>animals are animals
>some animals are more equal than others
90-100% of mammals have the rudimentary emotions we think of as human. We may be somewhat special but we arent gods set apart from other creatures.
>>7170201
>somewhat special
I don't often see other creatures with the capacity to build thermonuclear reactors.
>>7170201
You know how I know you're a homo sapien? You sound like a faggot.
>>7170280
That's because they haven't invented transistors yet.
>>7170330
Chimps will make it there eventually. Look how far Africans have come.
>>7164657
>I eat cereal for breakfast
grow up manchild
>>7164657
If you saved some hens from cruelty, would you eat their eggs still? Or is it the purity you feel that nothing you ate came from an animal? Because that's how I see paleo people..
Anyway, not vegan but my friend is. They eat lots of breads and cereals. If a vegan visited my place, I'd give them avocado on toasted turkish bread. They bring their own avocado though, those things cost $3 a piece most times of the year.
>>7169133
No, it disgusts me.
>>7170433
Aren't you a special snowflake!
soy milk which will give you mantits
>>7164657
almond or hazelnut is my fav.
If I don't have any in I will quickly make oat milk cos its quick and easy and normally have oats in
>>7169726
I agree with avoiding meat substitutes but you don't have to focos on fats, just look up what vegan gains eats.
One other thing i would add is its easy to eat to little alot of animal products are high in calories so you will need to eat a larger amount.
>>7165318
since almost all meals consist of about 80% plant products/byproducts, plant based diets been around for millennia.
>>7164657
Sorry about your mental illness.
>>7164673
My parents and some frineds of theirs split 500lbs of veal the other day from a farmer and had it chopped up at a local butcher
We got for 250lbs of veal in stock minus the few things we already ate
I LOVE YOUR VEGAN TEARS, THEY ARE SALTY AND PERFECT FOR MAKING SPAGHETTI AND VEAL MEAT BALLS
>>7164673
>dairy cows to keep producing milk, the cows have to be made pregnant over an over again
pretty sure this is false, as long as you milk the cows they keep producing milk
>>7171562
>>7171436
MEAT EATERS: accept that you are killing animals with emotions and feelings that do not want to be mistreated and quit acting like you have any philosophical high ground to cause suffering to others
NON-MEAT EATERS: just because you cause less suffering to animals YOU ARE NOT ANY BETTER THAN MEAT EATERS.
all of you shut the fuck up. although i do find edgy meat-fags more insufferable
>>7171452
Correct, same principle as wet nurses.
>>7166732
Those are some pretty advanced strawmen you got set up there, bud. I like how none of these are arguments against veganism as an ideology, but rather a critique of certain adherents to the ideology. I also like how you failed to notice that default omnivorism answers none of these concerns more convincingly than veganism. My favourite is when you refer to a highly specific brand veganism as a 'complete philosphy'. You aren't a rugby player caught in the Andes. You're still using those fresh tomatoes in your sauces and salads. You aren't 'refusing hospitality' when your visit to the supermarket doesn't include animal products.
I take the usual casual homphobic insults more seriously than this overwrought reply t b h. If you want to eat meat, that's great. Please, don't feel the urge to share your weakass arguments next time. Just close the thread and move on. I'm getting secondhand cringe from all your insecurity, anon.
>>7169037
>give these animals lives meaning when they die rather than let their meat go to waste
priceless. behold the mental gymnastics of insecure omnivores.
>>7164657
>what's a good vegan breakfast
a bullet
>>7171643
Meat eater here. I like causing suffering deal with it faggot
>>7171850
>>7166845
>I don't think it's a reasonable thing to do to bring up some other issue going on in the world to ignore any other issue, such as this one.
neither would 99% of vegans.
>What, precisely, is the difference? The factor of death?
yes
>In that case is the accidental death of animals in harvesting a lesser exploitation?
yes
>Is the (unpaid, unrewarded) work of humans a lesser exploitation of animals?
no. all sane people put higher value on human life than animal ones.
if a suffering is avoidable, then it is our moral imperative to minimise it.
>What about mussels and oysters, which do not have a recognizable nervous system?
for a rational aka 'tentative vegan', it does not count as death anymore than the "death" of a sponge or potato. http://sentientist.org/2013/06/15/oystersmusselspt2/
>Do the tiny deaths of crickets and locusts outweigh their nutritional density and ease of raising?
yes. because soy/wheat/etc. crop is a) ethically preferable and b) a more efficient use of resources. optional point c): insects taste like shit.
>I have no desire to commit to a vegan lifestyle for the points that I raised
no. you have no desire to commit for unstated reasons. none of those which you have outlined stand up to even the lightest rational scrutiny. try again
>it is hypocritical
nope. aiming to minimise suffering, and shopping/consuming accordingly is not hypocrisy by definition. veganism is not commonly an absolutist postion (although you would prefer that as it's far easier to dismiss as irrational).
>privileged
if you live in a country where supermarkets are plentiful, nope. legumes, grains and vegetables are universally cheaper than meat or dairy, by nutritional content.
>may not even be effective
not only is this demonstrably false, even it were true, consuming animal products does not provide a more reasonable alternative.
>but I do expect people to be consistent in their beliefs.
kek. expected of every person but you, right?
>>7171849
I'm not mad but soy will literally make you a woman. Vegan diet overall is not recommended for men
>>7173207
you are a moron
>>7173207
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkOSwH2tyZQ
>>7173346
And I have no idea how high his natural testosterone levels are nor do I know if he eats supplements or soy
Generally a man on a vegan diet will experience changes including a more feminine body and behavior
>>7173207
>>7173520
heavy citation needed.
hint: don't bother. anyone can look at the research and look at the meta-analyses to find that feminizing effects of phytoestrogens only occur when roughly 8+ servings of soy are consumed per day. 8 servings = half a gallon of soy milk, or half a cup of tofu (~80g protein).
soy is a boogeyman and i could probably kick your ass. what are your lifts, faggot?
>>7173578
Beans and soy increases estrogen and meat increases testosterone. Theses are facts and I don't see why any man would want that change in their body. It makes no sense.
>>7173207
"t is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19562864
http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/Vegetarianhealth/Pages/Vegandiets.aspx
not that anecdotes mean shit, but just to prove it can be done: Derek Gelato, record holder for powerlifting in NY.
http://www.timesunion.com/living/article/Powerlifter-finds-strength-in-vegetables-5576178.php
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgRLp3mx8-c
patiently awaiting your ad-hominem free, well reasoned and cited reply :+)
>>7173594
You can cherrypick studies all you want but I've seen sufficient studies and have enough personal experience to know this. The vegan diet feminization is true and it's scary that it's pushed on people globally
>>7173583
[citation needed]
this is wrong.
"Summary: It requires twelve servings of soy (and probably much more for most men) to have any sort of noticeable feminizing effects. While one epidemiological study raised concerns about soy and sperm quantity (14), two clinical studies have shown no effects of soy on sperm quality or quantity (15, 126)."
http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/soy_wth#fem
136 references. peer-reviewed.
p.s. meat does not increase testosterone. fats, both saturated and unsaturated, modulate testosterone and because so many vegans are retards who live off carbs and nothing else (see the banana guy in this thread), studies occasionally find a correlation between omnivorous diets and higher T levels. if your fat intake is adequate to maintain hormonal balance, further consumption of meat does not raise T.
Fiber consumption is inversely correlated with T levels. there is no association with estrogen, aside form extremely high intakes as already referenced.
>>7173605
>
>>7173616
>veganhealth.org
how unbiased
and in 10 seconds I can find hundreds of neutral studies showing soy increase estrogen levels. You might disagree and that's fine but I'm not putting that shit in me and I advice any man from feminizing his body
>>7173605
>NHS
>American Dietic Association
>literally every other reputable health agency has the same thing to say
>The vegan diet feminization is true and it's scary that it's pushed on people globally
[citation needed]
>have enough personal experience to know this
lol, resorting to anecdotes. classic. again, what do you lift? come to Michigan and I'll hand your ass to you. for reference, i squatted 370 and pulled 420 at my powerlifting meet 4 months ago. Not the craziest stats but I have a feeling you aren't as strong as me, or maybe you don't lift at all.
>>7173633
>how unbiased
look at the references.
>I can find hundreds of neutral studies showing soy increase estrogen levels.
post 5. you won't even be able to do that.
> You might disagree and that's fine
I'm not disagreeing. I don't have an opinion. Im just referring to peer reviewed meta analyses . Post these studies you keep talking about and I'll read them and change my eating habits if what you say is true. I'm waiting
>>7173605
>You can cherrypick studies all you want
Ironic t b h pham
>>7173652
Then POST THEM.
>>7173652
hahaha, so you couldn't find any studies. at least you realised posting bodybuilding.com articles would make you look even more braindead. props to you buddy. good thing the chan is anonymous or people would hesitate ever to take your opinions seriously again on /ck/
>>7164673
>and when their calves are born they are killed?
And turned into tasty fucking veal. I invented a roast yesterday, like a red meat turducken, heavily spiced veal flank wrapped around pork belly wrapped around a lamb chop. 16-hr sous vide and a short sharp sear came out fucking incredible
>>7173652
<- google results
don't see anything remotely science related
>>7173673
It's a shitty wording, you might have to search for the specific problems
Soy increases estrogen and Meat increases testostrone are simple facts and if you search for it there are countless of studies on it
>>7173673
page 2
first ten pages:
>naturallifeenergy.com
>aboundingwellness.com
>wordpress blogs far as the eye can see
>threads on misc
tell us, how does it feel to be an enormous faggot?
>>7173698
listen, google is not doing a good job at turning up these "hundreds of studies". why don't you do you duty in preventing the feminization of men and post even a single meta analysis? or a handful of studies?
>>7173723
Here are a couple I found in 10 seconds
I've given well enough information for you to find this out yourself at this point
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10584048
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1435181
>>7173742
>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10584048
>DESIGN: Nineteen men aged 51-69 y
>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1435181
> Endurance performance time was higher for six and lower for two after the mixed diet compared with the vegetarian diet. This was not significant, however. In conclusion, 6 wk on a lacto-ovo vegetarian diet caused a minor decrease in total testosterone and no significant changes in physical performance
hahahaha
>>7173742
nice cherrypicking
>>7173742
>The goal for dietary control was to have each man in the LOV-diet group completely abstain from any foods or beverages that contained meat (striated muscle) or meat products. No attempt was made to otherwise control the types or amounts of foods or beverages consumed by the LOV-diet group. Likewise, no attempt was made to match or balance the total energy or macronutrient (protein, carbohydrate, or fat) intakes of any of the men in the study.
BTFO
T
F
O
you're an embarrassment to this board.
>>7171850
Cool. That's literally exactly what I meant when I said "edgy meat-fags" are insufferable. No one gives a shit about your masculinity complex. You don't have to prove that you have a tiny wiener by talking about how much you love steak.
>>7173830
for context, it's free testosterone that impacts upon muscle tissue and causes masculinizing effects. (this is why people take steroids). total T is not otherwise correlated with increased lean muscle mass.
>>7173698
>>7173742
>"This discussion is over"
>keeps posting to save face
Well, as a poor ass vegan college student, this is my typical day's worth of food.
Breakfast
>bowl of whole grain oats with ground flaxseed, a couple pieces of fruit (usually oranges, bananas, or kiwi).
Lunch
>Beans, rice, and vegetable stew I always have in my fridge that I cook a few times a week. I add spices to this for extra health benefits. Also a hemp protein and almond milk shake.
Dinner
>Typically curry, a stir-fry or (more commonly) the lunch option if I'm lazy. I also do things like make my own vegan pizza, hummus, soups, salads if I have the time.
My fats come from snacks like Larabars if I'm on the go, nuts, and peanut butter if I'm at home. After workout I add more of the hemp protein or maybe a Clif soy protein bar (though I try to avoid soy). I also make sure to include nutritional yeast in one of my meals. It's good sprinkled on curry.
I was vegetarian for most of my 21 years here on earth.
Started eating sardines and salmon a month ago; now I eat chicken, too.
Don't let your ideals keep you from being healthy.
>>7173207
what about a pescetarian diet anon?
Veganism and vegetarianism are fucking retarded. Animals aren't sentient.
Having a varied diet is great and very beneficial for you.
>>7174878
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BZ57-qJTPA
>>7173207
Worrying about PLANTestrogen that does jack shit in humans... I bet you are drinking cow milk right now. Milk contains loads of actual estrogen. Enjoy your vagina, man child.
>>7173207
I probably eat less soy now I am vegan than before have you ever tried reading labels of pizza, sausage rolls etc they all contain soya
I now eat a more wholefoods lifestyle rather than junk foods. which is why I tend to eat less. there is just as much soy in vegan junk as well, but at least we are awear of what we are eating.
lol
>>7164673
>did you know that in order for dairy cows to keep producing milk, the cows have to be made pregnant over an over again?
Of course. And we get to eat delicious tender young beef as a tasty side-effect. It's win-win.
>>7164895
>I don't eat breakfast, I have 2 to 3 giant cups of black coffee.
>For lunch I have 3 peanut butter and jelly sandwiches
Wow that sounds perfectly healthy, vegans sure are healthy, I want to eat a well balanced healthy diet like vegans do.
>>7164673
>tfw no constantly pregnant gf
>>7176176
Being vegan only means that you dont consume animal products.
Its harder but you are still able to mess your diet up and make it unhealthy.
I personally follow a whole-food high carb low fat diet. Cured my acne and got better performance, feel energized the whole day.
>>7176239
>Being vegan only means that you dont consume animal products.
Then could vegans shut the fuck up about how healthy their diet is?
>Cured my acne and got better performance, feel energized the whole day.
Oh, no, apparently they can't!
>>7171643
>NON-MEAT EATERS: just because you cause less suffering to animals YOU ARE NOT ANY BETTER THAN MEAT EATERS.
"Just because you're better than me, DOESN'T make you better than me!"
>>7176262
>I think I can rebuke him by simplifying the tautology!
It must be the lack of proper protein and vitamin B12 that makes vegans so stupid. I imagine the lack of oxygen to your brain due to iron deficiency can't help.
>>7173679
Veganismism is pretty dogmatic 2bh senpai
>>7176276
>I think making an effort to be less of a piece of shit doesn't make you less of a piece of shit purely because that would hurt my fragile ego!
Looks like your narrowed arteries are compromising blood flow to your brain.
>>7176295
>I'll just restate the tautology
You have a logical error, but you're too exhausted and oxygen deprived to realise it. I wonder if you'll ever figure out where you're going wrong?
>>7176306
Do me a favor and explain how your mind is working out that striving to do good things versus striving to do bad things does not make the person striving to do good things a better person than the one striving to do bad things. I realize your diet has probably caused you to have a stroke already and it might be hard to think clearly but give it a shot.
>>7176336
In order to make the universe, one must first prove that not eating meat is a "good thing" and that eating meat is a "bad thing". Your answer must not be subjective, emotional or self-referential.
Given your lack of ability to understand basic logic so far, you could save yourself a lot of energy and give up now. However you're an emotionally charged vegan, so I know you'll try anyway, because it pains you to know that people manage to eat food without hating themselves.
>>7176255
Well, you have to do a lot of research and eat consiously so actually you tend to adapt a healthy lifestyle.
I cant shut up about it? You are in a vegan thread you fucking moron.
>>7176346
Your view you're adopting for this argument alone and that you would abandon in any other context, is that there's no such thing as right and wrong. Before you start feeling enlightened and intelligent for bringing this up, in the context of what we're currently discussing, the view of the guy whose post started this argument chain >>7171643 is that animals don't want to be mistreated and that meat eaters are causing suffering. Mistreatment and suffering are words with certain meanings that relate to morality. My post therefore was rooted in this person's own admitted view of morality, where my comment fairly pointed out his hypocrisy.
>>7176346
To eat meat, does a body not have to participate in the act of killing? And if a body condones this said act, at the desire of taste, then what is wrong with killing the animal known as human for the desire of taste?
>>7164657
>so vegan, even the lamb picture isn't made out of real animals
>>7176361
>Your view you're adopting for this argument...is that there's no such thing as right and wrong
Nope. Nice attempt at a dodge, though. Want to try again?
>animals don't want to be mistreated
It keeps happening! I warned you about the tautology anon! I warned you!
>>7176367
>then what is wrong with killing the animal known as human for the desire of taste?
Because cannibalism passes on pathogens.
>>7176369
>Nope. Nice attempt at a dodge, though. Want to try again?
Not a dodge at all, I'm saving time by pointing out your obvious filibuster with the no such thing as objective morality argument, and showing that the original point of discussion, the person being replied to, held the view that harming animals was a bad thing.
>>7165101
>>Living multiple generations just to get killed over and over again
It's kill or be killed.
>>7176383
>pointing out your obvious filibuster with the no such thing as objective morality argument
Except I've never done that. You're avoiding the question by making that up from the whole cloth.
Let me restate, just in case you are confused: there is such a thing as right and wrong. Now please, stop avoiding the question.
>>7171852
tumblr reply/10
>>7176369
Tautology this, tautology that, have any real arguments?
Meat eaters at a higher risk of developing cancer.
Meat eaters cause suffering on animals.
Meat eaters have relatively lower lifespans.
From personal experience, much more energy when removing meat, cow milk, eggs, etc from diet.
What's YOUR argument in support of eating meat?
Because top of food chain?
If so, then those that have a higher income and more power, could they not be entitled to EAT YOU for that same argument?
>>7176391
>Except I've never done that.
That was the point of "one must first prove that not eating meat is a "good thing" and that eating meat is a "bad thing". Your answer must not be subjective, emotional or self-referential."
Thus expecting an objective view of morality, which you would be ready to decline, and deem any argument "subjective" which obviously it would have to be when we're talking about a philosophical matter. But again, none of this matters because the view of the person who made the initial claim is that harming animals is morally wrong, and as a response to that post, I need only speak in reference to that poster's own set of morals.
>>7176399
>Meat eaters at a higher risk of developing cancer.
>Meat eaters have relatively lower lifespans.
Okay. Now all you have to do is show how any of that is "bad"
>Meat eaters cause suffering on animals.
...and prove that.
>Tautology this, tautology that, have any real arguments?
>What's YOUR argument in support of eating meat?
That's so precious. I can see why you're so upset: you can't even manage basic logic.
>>7176404
I see. So your entire argument that eating meat is "bad" is based on your own moral relativity?
So it's no argument at all? That's great. Glad we settled it.
>>7176405
>>7173657
>(2)
You downloaded the same inaccurate pic twice.
That's how much of a defensive faggot you are about your special snowflake diet.
>>7176409
Technically it's not even my argument or my set of morals we're talking about, it's the views of the guy I responded to, which I pointed out as being inconsistent. You almost felt smart, didn't you?
>>7176409
What is your definition of "bad"?
>>7176416
>your definition
Oh but anon, as your meat-avoiding friend >>7176414 is using to avoid the argument, it isn't about MY definitions or morals at all!
>>7176414
>you almost felt smart
I don't need to "feel" smart anon. I know it's a rare thing for you though, what with your protein and iron deficiency.
>>7176426
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oTCA9V3eNs
>>7176433
>slaughter causes suffering
This is getting so boring, but I guess I'll ask for completeness sake: Can you prove that?
>>7176440
Watch the video.
>>7176442
So, no, you can't. Thanks.
>>7176448
Wow.
Was I just asked for proof, provided a video, then claimed that?
I've found a child.
>>7176456
>A video is proof
It's a video. Where's the suffering?
Oh but wait, you're anthropomorphising animals aren't you? And then you're applying your own subjecting moral relativism to that anthropomorphism?
Like I said, you can't prove it. Thanks.
>>7176473
>>7176456
What (s)he's trying to say is that because you can't prove suffering, it should be allowed to burn him alive in a cage because, hey, who cares, he seems alright. We can't prove he's suffering, so you should be allowed to do it.
>>7176498
>Humanely slaughtering an animal is the same as putting it in a cage and setting it on fire.
Vegans really are psychopaths.
>>7170474
Are you retarded? I said:
1. I'm a vegetarian
2. I've never eaten meat
3. I don't see anything wrong with drinking milk and don't see why someone should give up drinking milk because it doesn't harm the animal
4. Factory animal farming is disgusting and needs to go
>>7176513
Oh okay, I translated wrongly.
Sorry.
What (s)he's trying to say is that because you can't prove suffering, it should be allowed for you to slice his head off after forcing him into a gross crowded death-ridden facility (or just put an iron nail in his head) because, hey, who cares, he seems alright. We can't prove he's suffering, so you should be allowed to do it.
As a guy who won't stop eating meat or animal products on the whole but is allergic to eggs, any resources for vegan recipes you guys would recommend? Mostly to substitute out the egg portion of foods, obviously.
>>7164673
Factually incorrect, a continually milked cow will continually produce milk.
However, a majority of cows are kept continually pregnant for productivity purposes on the meat end. This is tangentially related and common knowledge for anyone intelligent.
>>7176549
For pancakes, I use flour, water, and coconut oil on the pan and about a spoon in the mix. Microwave the water/oil first then add the (whole wheat preferably).
Pic related, I recommend trying to add this as well for taste.
Tbh, it might take some more time to cook but still comes out tasty. Corn starch is an alternative for thickening. I've tried baking powder, while it cooked quicker I just didn't like the taste.
Cookies:
Oatmeal.
Pic related.
Any amount of desired fruits.
Blend.
Should come out thick.
>>7176361
>>7171643
The person you quoted here. I don't even view viewing meat as wrong. My point is that meat-eaters love to circlejerk about Hurrr Durrr, morality is subjective and I don't subscribe to that brand of mortality (No shit morality is subjective)
The point is that the subjectivity of moral systems doesn't mean that when someone applies that moral system to you you are somehow immune from being the piece of shit in it. "I don't subscribe to that view of morality" WELL, too bad. Accept that it's a real way to view reality and stop trying to hide from the fact that you are doing something that can accurately be described as wrong and shouldn't be done. If you don't *care* about those ideas, then all the better for you! But this retarded viewpoint that you're not contributing to an atrocity because of your magic ideological forcefield is bothersome.
>>7176546
Yes so as I was translating for >>7176456, you're mentally ill and/or disabled and should probably get your head cut off in a humane fashion.
>>7176549
To substitute eggs you should use mashed banana or applesauce if baking and wouldn't mind it being moist, otherwise opt for chia/flax-eggs. I'm not a fan of replacing with yogurt.
>Factually incorrect
But it's not. I've worked on a mom-and-pop farm for awhile. That's not how it goes for cows or goats, or likely any mammal.
>Production levels peak at around 40 to 60 days after calving.[16] The cow is then bred. Production declines steadily afterwards, until, at about 305 days after calving, the cow is 'dried off', and milking ceases. About sixty days later, one year after the birth of her previous calf, a cow will calve again. High production cows are more difficult to breed at a one-year interval. Many farms take the view that 13 or even 14 month cycles are more appropriate for this type of cow.
>Source - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dairy_cattle#Milk_production_levels
So no, they must be impregnated over and over again not for meat, but for milk. The meat is just where the bullshit veal industry comes from. That's the only place for a baby from a dairy cow outside of the same farm in this society.
>>7176570
I find people who post on 4chan with the post number 7176570 morally objectionable pieces of shit.
Too bad if you don't agree with my entirely arbitrary moral outlook, you piece of shit. God, you disgust me.
>>7176580
>Trying to prove that vegans aren't psychopaths
>[you] should probably get your head cut off
>>7176581
What an awful meme-response. I support your right to hold it though.
>>7176586
But that's not what I'm trying to prove.
There's nothing to prove here: you're demonstrably mentally ill and likely retarded as well.
>>7176580
Mashed bananas, thanks thats good idea.
>>7176592
>If you don't agree with my arbitrary morality you must be mentally ill
More stunning veganist "logic".
>>7176581
and yes, your outlook that a random number is somehow "morally objectionable" is arbitrary. the idea that causing suffering to other living beings is bad is not arbitrary. now we get to watch you run in circles and speak in code to justify any possible reasoning to back up your (wrong and immature) viewpoints. i'm not going to even respond to them. if you were a big boy you could figure this out by yourself.
>>7176598
>the idea that causing suffering to other living beings is bad is not arbitrary
No, it isn't. You're right about that.
All you have to do is prove that humane slaughter "causes suffering"
>back up your (wrong and immature) viewpoints
See? You even went straight back to your logical fallacy *in the same post*! What a mistake!
>>7176607
>All you have to do is prove that humane slaughter "causes suffering"
I don't have to prove it. I'm not a vegetarian. I eat meat and I prefer it to be slaughtered humanely.
My point is that most slaughter that happens now, and the living conditions before death, are not humane in the slightest. And that you can't use the "morality is subjective" argument to separate yourself from the daily atrocities that occur to get your steaks and chicken breasts. I don't lie to myself. I know exactly what went into the creation of my meals.
>>7176621
>you can't use the "morality is subjective" argument
I'm not the one using it. I'm the one calling out the vegans for using it.
>I don't lie to myself. I know exactly what went into the creation of my meals.
So do I. I just don't believe it's morally objectionable, or causes suffering.
>>7176520
Milk does harm the animals and it is just disgusting. Since you are a vegetarian I assume that you are open minded. So please do your research on the matter.
>>7176721
DESU, coconut milk (with vanilla), almond milk, and Soy Milk taste a lot better then cow or goat milk from personal experience. After trying a cheesecake after months or so of not having cow based dairy products I got weird headaches.
HIGHLY recommend Coconut milk, it's so delicious.
>>7176405
>Meat eaters cause suffering on animals.
>...and prove that.
how can someone be this retarded/in denial?
>>7167075
>$24 for organic
Nigga, there's no such thing as an organic banana. You're being fucked in the a.
>>7176777
If I ignore reality it's hard to prove to me how reality works!
>>7176721
How does milk harm animals? Like I said, factory farming is the problem, not milk itself.
Where I live I get buffalo milk straight from the farm delivered on a bicycle by a milkman every morning, and these animals are treated really well.
>>7164895
Why even go vegan if you're going to eat so shitty? You'll drop dead from caffeine and sugar anyway.
>>7164657
Vegan thread
With a felt animal as the op picture
Not even your cute farm animals are real
>>7177126
Every time these threads pop up I tell people how I get my pork and how I visit the place once a summer. Every time I tell them where I get my chicken and eggs delivered from and it just doesn't matter to the militant vegans. It doesn't matter if your food is delivered from a small farm that you know does well by its animals. There's reasonable people too, but they're outnumbered by trolls and people who are very ignorant about farms and think they're all the same factory garbage.
It's nice to see people discussing recipes, but when others try to guilt people into converting like they just finished their intro to ethics class then you know there's bait in the water.
>>7177126
For a cow to produce milk, she's got to be pregnant or have a calf. This usually implies artificial insemination, AKA having a man's arm stuffed into her vagina. So, now for the whole time she's pregnant (usually in a confined area), she'll be milked, and who knows how comfortable or uncomfortable that is, probably depends on how big the dairy operation is. When her baby is born, its just a leech. It takes away the farms profit. So either the baby is confined and made into veal (a whole other horrible process), or is turned into another dairy cow. Cows apparently get pretty distraught when their babies are taken away too.
>>7164657
4chan isn't really the place to talk about veganism though, everyone's too busy trying to be edgy.
>>7177165
Actually, I'd say that while this holds for milk and unfertilized eggs, it doesn't hold for meat. Simply because you nurture an animal to kill it. You could say we do the same to plants, especially grain crops, roots etc, you have to recognize that it is much easier to associate with kingdom animalia than kingdom plantae. Ultimately, unless we improve artificial nutrient synthesis and give up our taste buds and our digestive systems, some species will have to take it for the team.
>>7177186
Like I said, my milk comes from a place where the animals are treated well. You just described factory farming. It seems you missed the fact that I said that the animals are treated well. Calves are not converted to veal. They're raised to be bulls in bull farms or the farmer keeps them. There's actual laws and/or regulations controlling beef production where I live. Industrial-scale dairy farming is not common at all.
>>7177274
>give up our taste buds and our digestive systems
That actually sounds kind of nice. I was born too soon.
>>7176586
He said humanely, what's the problem? Cutting someone's head off isn't psychotic if you slap the word humane on it
>>7177216
veganism is the ultimate edge.
>>7177569
More like the ultimate meme.
>>7177581
You are a fucking moron. Edgy little bitches everywhere...
I became a vegetarian because muh animals suffering and people said I wouldn't be able to maintain it. I wanted to quit after about 3 months. It's now been 4 years and I keep it up entirely to save face. I can't admit to my friends that I was just an idiot and have no real convictions.
I'm going to have to keep this up until I move to a new city.
>>7177631
You do have convictions. They're just not important to you anymore. Unless you somehow managed to un-realize that treating animals badly is not the right thing to do.
>>7177165
It the idea that we shouldnt use animals at all since we we dont have the right to. How are you not able to understand that concept?
>>7177642
>since we we dont have the right to
you're not King Vegan and you don't get to decide this
>>7177642
>oats and grains two separate things
>>7177642
They're just animals.
>>7177642
I literally eat all that and it's delicious, tell all those predators in the wild to go vegan. I don't give a fuck about animals because their delicious and as long as they are I will eat them.
>inb4 edgy
>>7177648
Found the squeaky and edgy little bitch... this is worse than /b/
>>7177656
You are just an animal too.
>>7177666
Only technically.
>>7177657
>basing your morals around an animal that eats its children
>>7177677
theres no such thing as morality in the animal world when it comes to other species.
>>7177663
>Found the squeaky and edgy little bitch
>saying this while posting that image
you sound like a weak person desperate for some kind of power
are you afraid that YOU'RE the caged animal, anon?
>>7177675
technically, as well as literally, actually, entirely, and totally.
>>7177675
Wow, you are retarded.
>>7177677
>basing your morals around a cultish ideology
>>7164673
i learned this before in a ShindoL doujin
>>7178262
>cultish ideology
>cultish
Whats cultish about choosing not to consume animals?
I really dont understand the hate when you meat eaters even profit from us being vegan... Its not we are some kind of cancer movement like feminism, we actually have a very important cause.
>>7179279
>it's not morally okay to eat animals
Why?
>>7180197
What is wrong with cannibalism anon, or capturing and breeding humans for food?
>>7180221
If you give them a lobotomy it's fine
>>7180221
prions, mostly
vump
>>7173637
>squatted 370 and pulled 420
kek, I hope you are a manlet (like 5'0) because that is not respectable at all. Vegan gains pls go
Better off eating that piece of chicken breast.
