Good evening (Dutchfag here), Gentlemen.
I've been lurking and lurking, rarely replying on anything posted here - mostly because its all quite weak minded stuff (exceptions excluded, there are some true bro's here who gove solid advice every now and then).
But, since all this 'Eth' stuff, there is only one thing I can see as a reason for all the 'hype' about this coin/platform.
I say 'hype', because as a (big) data analyst/reputation manager (involves loads of measuring and research - if done well), there is no hype to be found - at all. Cucks can find this fact (!) out for themselves by simply comparing the 'real' hyped coins (BTC) and its hype-history what some on /biz are claiming to be a hype, or better said 'a populair coin that is rising (to the moon, etc.)' by checking Google Trends.
Except owning some BTC myself (yes, from way back in the day) and getting some Eth recently (just in case, you might know the feeling), I know very little to nothing about these digital currencies. Trading is right down my lane, so that part is no mystery for me.
So, some things came to mind whilst gathering some interest and information in these currencies (especially Eth) and why people here are so focussed on (what appears to be) a dream ("what if it goes like BTC", and so on).
1/2
>>1139213
2/2
1) In order to get Eth, you need BTC.
As an 'outsider', I look at this as a classic, yet very basic, marketing-tactic for BTC. I've seen that Eth will be able to get by other payment forms in the future, but when will this be? If anyone could clear that up, it might help to better understand Eth's possibilities and eliminate the idea that it's been called to live to pump up BTC.
2) Eth is a complete mystery (to newbies).
I still can't wrap my head around this, but putting some autistic feller on stage 'trying to explain' what Eth is, was the worst mistake - ever. This gives me two conclusions;
- It's not their first and most definitely not their last (huge) mistake.
- They have no idea how to market their coin/platform - which is worrying to say the least.
To me, the only logical outcome when I combine 1) + 2) = disaster for Eth (it won't reach the masses this way) and it's actually possible (according to the above assumptions) that this is basically a thing to pump up BTC.
If you understand the above, do you agree that Eth is simply made to pump up BTC or not? Please elaborate your answers and have this sorted out, once and for all.
>>1139214
>If you understand the above, do you agree that Eth is simply made to pump up BTC or not?
no, because eth is a competitor with btc. eth isn't pumping up btc it's taking from btc capital.
anyway, more exchanges are adding eth so you don't even need btc to get it anymore
>>1139217
Thanks for replying!
Sounds interesting, any idea where I can purchase Eth with lets say Euro's?
And what do you think about the fact that it's still quite vague what Eth actually is?
>>1139218
You can buy ETH with EUR or USD at kraken.com exchange.
>>1139214
It might reach the masses simply by being integrated in stuff they use (internet of memes etc..), how many normies do you think have any idea what tcp/ip or any of that stuff is?
>>1139252
Thanks, will check that out!
>>1139260
Not many, but it's good to see your missing the 'big' point.
Whilst not many may know TCP/IP's, they DO know (somewhat) what it's needed for and what you can do with it.
That effect has been reached with proper 'education', how-to's and so on.
Something that, to this very evening, is NOT to be found anywhere on Ethereum.
A simple drawn out video with an explanation of what Eth is, and what you can do with it could (read: would) mean SO much difference, but apparently the fellers behind Ethereum are to autistic to let that even come to their minds.
Somebody should really (!) look into making a website with general, but foremost digestible information on Eth for the 'normies'.
>>1139214
jesus christ. your reasoning is idiotic
>but putting some autistic feller on stage 'trying to explain' what Eth is, was the worst mistake - ever
just shut the fuck up
I'm really surprised that I haven't seen any mention of IPFS in ETH threads. Granted there are so many threads that information is fragmented but still. I come from a technical background and I look at IPFS like it's the second coming of the internet/jesus. The only issue people have with it is that content stored with it has to be somewhat static, people are already using etherium with it though to provide dynamic content.
A lot of people on /biz/ seem to think ETH will do well on its own. I think IPFS will do well on its own too and the two compliment each other very very well. With that in mind, I have to imagine that if IPFS does well ETH will have to do well as a result, and that's in a vacuum with just the two of them, ETH seems like it could easily be adapted into any project for dynamic trusted content much like IPFS can be dropped into anything for high reliability static content.
If anyone already knows the technical merits of ETH maybe they'd be interested in reading these and seeing how they apply/relate. I personally can't be any more confident of the projects being a success than I am right now, this is without profit in mind as well, technically these things are something I've wanted for a very long time and so have many.
https://blog.neocities.org/its-time-for-the-permanent-web.html
https://medium.com/@ConsenSys/an-introduction-to-ipfs-9bba4860abd0
my 2 cents
>>1139298
That may very well be - thank you for pointing it out.
However, my bewording the guy as an autistic person was not meant bad in any way - I'm just trying to say that this isn't the most clever thing to do when trying to push something very unknown and new.
Sure, the programmers and like-minded people will enjoy his speech(es) and actually learn from it, but I watched the entire thing twice and STILL don't know exactly what Eth is, and foremost - what I can do with it.
These are two key elements, which he should've covered in order for me and other 'normies' to understand his/their product.
Could you please explain if you were new to Eth (like, zero knowledge) when you watched his 'explanation' and if so, if you learned (everything needed) from that performance on stage?
>>1139303
I see an issue in your post, and it's IPFS.
Googled it, same issue as Eth - no feasible information available for the normies.
Once more, in order for Eth (or IPFS) to grow - it needs to be accessible and understandable for the masses.
Hi op ouwe rukker
The biggest problem I see with eth is that the dapps on the list are underwhelming as fuck and it is not quite clear what real world use case it will help solve that cannot be solved better with existing tech.
For example: slock.it could be implemented using paypal. Whats the added value of ether here?
Hype makes it a great speculative bubble though.
>>1139309
Him being a relatable autistic-like dude actually helped with the first wave of adoptors who are most likely nerd-like types to begin with.
Last thought: i wouldnt worry too much about normie afoption. The question is, will there be adoption by massive corporations? Normie investors come dead last when their bank shoves them "great investment opportunities" down their throats.
>>1139313
This is true, even for developers the documentation is lacking, however they are aware of this issue and have said they'll work towards it when they're more stable. Right now IPFS is in its alpha stage and it's already impressive if you can figure out how to work with it, for users it's dead simple (download something and it will run in the background).
The long term goal of the project is to get integrated into browsers so users won't have to do anything at all, they're implementing it in JS as well so it will run in browsers regardless of if specific browsers adopt it or not.
IPFS is more centered around developers than it is normal users simply because normal users won't have to care and ideally shouldn't notice. They're trying to make the transition from HTTP to IPFS as seamless as possible.
To put that another way, normal users don't know anything about HTTP because they don't have to, same for HTTPS but they do need both and the transitions from HTTP to HTTPS should be seemless, a user gets more security even though they don't know it and developers see the benefit. IPFS wants the transition to be kind of like that.
The idea of selling the concept should be easy once they're done implementing everything.
>it's like a drop in CDN that doesn't need any configuration and can be used for any file
>you can use your own private networks if you want too
>you can restructure your site and none of your links will break, ever
and some more good things.
I hope I'm not coming off as pushing this tech, I'm just very excited about it myself so please bear with me.
>>1139271
>they DO know (somewhat) what it's needed for and what you can do with it.
This is exactly what it says on the frontpage of ethereum.org.
>Ethereum is a decentralized platform that runs smart contracts: applications that run exactly as programmed without any possibility of downtime, censorship, fraud or third party interference.
>These apps run on a custom built blockchain, an enormously powerful shared global infrastructure that can move value around and represent the ownership of property. This enables developers to create markets, store registries of debts or promises, move funds in accordance with instructions given long in the past (like a will or a futures contract) and many other things that have not been invented yet, all without a middle man or counterparty risk.
It's understandable if you don't know what a blockchain is and how it works, but once you got that down (plenty of info on it online) you're very close to grasping eth too.
>>1139324
Agreed on the hype part, isn't necessarily needed and might indeed turn things another (bad) way - see BTC as a quite good example.
For me personally, and by reading /biz many others with me, are in need of a simple explanation of what Eth is and what it can do.
For example, DAPPS are apps which can run on the Eth network, but that and the apps itself don't make any sense to a newbie - at all.
>>1139327
That might be so, but they did skip an important point for healthy numbers - the masses. Again, I'm not saying being an autistic guy is bad or something, but in my view this wasn't the greatest way of 'explaining' eth.
>>1139334
Very valid point, however I'm still sticking to the fact that they/we need some mass on order to make this big.
Do you think the companies interested in Eth will be able to get this to the masses and if so how?
Follow up question; why don't the dev's of Eth do this themselves for some SERIOUS gains?
>>1139335
I get what you're saying, but still - the lack of feasible information is a big risk. Even more so if you claim the information isn't (yet and perhaps fully) available to dev's.
>>1139347
I've read it - but could you understand that I - as a total newbie - get very confused?
I mean, is Eth a coin or a platform for coins / other things?
I don't need an answer from you, just trying to make clear that the information that actually is provided is quite unclear and won't provide much interest (and in my opinion, growth).
Until now, the only interest I've seen is;
1) People (normies) who actually fall for the 'hype' by listening to others on /biz and other boards/sites.
2) People (dev's) that are genuinely interested, understand the 'thing', trust it and thus invest in it.
3) People (dev's) that understand some of it, but get into it like 1).
>>1139353
>I get what you're saying, but still - the lack of feasible information is a big risk. Even more so if you claim the information isn't (yet and perhaps fully) available to dev's.
Very true. I wouldn't go as far to say the information isn't there, it's just very fragmented at the moment, it's possible to understand everything but it should all be aggregated and presented better than it is right now. I managed to figure it out while it was worse so I can imagine someone else figuring it out just as well as I know it, today.
Even with the information there it's still a risk but so is any major decision like that in the technical world. Most genuinely better technologies don't get used simply because they're only slightly better, something like IPFS seems worth the transitional pain for developers since it has more than a handful of merits over other protocols not just one thing. I should point out too that the transitional pain for developers in relation to IPFS is minimal and less risky if they run a gateway with a whitelist, the worst case scenario for IPFS "hosts" is that people don't see a benefit at which case it's on par with HTTP except it carries the "addressable by content" feature so it has 1 leg up over the alternative even in the worst case scenario today, once the JS implementation is done that scenario shouldn't even be possible. Reasons like that are what gives me confidence in it, I'm surprised to see people running trials for it already or integrating it into their software despite the initial hurdles that should be gone tomorrow. I suppose etherium also had these hurdles for people unfamiliar with it though, that may be inherent to new tech I guess, as a result it always seems risky to adopt anything unless others are doing so already.
To summarize that a little better I agree that it seems risky but all tech does, I don't see this as any higher a risk than anything else and in fact see it as a less risky investment.
>>1139353
>I've read it - but could you understand that I - as a total newbie - get very confused?
Yeah, but I think the truth is just that this is fairly new/complicated/unconventional tech, and you're gonna have to put in some work if you want to learn the ins and outs.
I do agree with you that more/better/centralized documentation would be good, and I think it will come when this thing leaves beta. I don't think this is really a big downside as far as the value/potential of ethereum goes, though.
>>1139217
>Eth is a competitor to BTC
This is incorrect.
Ether is what you use as gas to write in the Ethereum blockchain, you cannot purchase anything physical with Ether, the only thing you will be able to purchase are in app services from Mist, and that still is not its primary function as you could easily just do that with regular cash.
I hold eth, but holding eth will never be a BTC experience because the developers of ethereum will never let Eth get that high. It simply defeats the purpose of eth to do that.
Furthermore, eth needs btc to exist for now, so they are not competitors. While it is possible that someone could create a better BTC using solodity and running it in the Ethereum network, this is not the purpose of Ethereum, it's simply a possiblity.
So to sum up, BTC is it's 'own' competitor because it is designed in manner that obstructs it from working properly, this can still be fixed and BTC can still have a future as the strongest cryptocurrency
>>1139335
semi technical background here. Never heard of IFPS, would you care to explain what excites you most about it? This is how i learned about EThereum
>>1139432
I'm very interested in permanent content addresses and the distributed nature of fetching the content.
If I tell you the hash of a file now, you should be able to retrieve it forever as long as 100% of it is on the network, that is to say even if 2 people only have 50% of it you can still obtain 100% of it, much like bittorrent but with less fragmentation and less discrepancy issues (like torrents conflicting because of filenames or piece size)
This is important to me because I see a lot of breakage on the internet, files move or change and it can break whole sites, moreover hosts die or become unreachable, with IPFS if you make a website and can no longer host it then it's not a problem for people who care about the content, the network (your users) could take on the hosting responsibility, with etherium even the dynamic content doesn't need to rely on you existing anymore.
The simplest way I can sum it up is "it allows you to push content that will last forever" obviously forever is not true but it's as long as the content exists, you don't have to worry about "the content exists, and hasn't changed, and hasn't changed locations, and isn't blocked in your region somehow".
Another implication of this is something people praised about the project "freenet" where sites get faster when they get more users unlike conventional client-server where sites get slower when blasted with requests.
High reliability should be the standard and sites like archive.org shouldn't have to exist, just entities like it that host the content and don't need to fix it up and have special "Archival copies", just access the data the same as it was when published, no modification needed.
With deduplication being inherent to their datastore methods, storing an entire history of a piece of content is very space efficient, think of how git handles file history.
>post too long
>>1139432
>>1139520
The link I posted earlier probably does a better job than what I could say and it's pretty easy to understand
https://blog.neocities.org/its-time-for-the-permanent-web.html
I can answer questions on it though if you want but I suddenly got busy so I might take some time.
>>1139429
I don't get why people think you wont be able to buy things with ETH?
At the very worst, there will be services that will let you purchase goods and services with ETH, by transferring it to BTC and purchasing with BTC behind the scenes.
>>1139324
The whole idea behind slock.it is that its trustless, and non-abusable.
So no, you could not achieve the same thing with PayPal, as that requires people to trust PayPal, and also trust the other party not to chargeback.
>>1139309
They are not trying to convince the masses to use Ethereum. They don't give a shit
They are courting developers
>>1139429
>developers of ethereum will never let Eth get that high
Why would they not want to get rich too? the price of ethereum rising doesn't make it more expensive to run dapps
Ether can be used to run the ethereum network and as a currency, bitcoin has no future with 1+ hour long transactions and being ruined by greedy chineese . Its outdated as Eth is the best replacement
>>1139429
>https://medium.com/@ConsenSys/an-introduction-to-ipfs-9bba4860abd0
No.
Eth is used to purchase gas. Gas is an accounting mechanism (the not a currency part) used to tally the amount of computing power used by a contract. Thus far, and likely in the future, the only currency that you will directly be able to purchase gas with is eth.
Don't explain with authority if you're talking out your ass anon.
>>1140113
Left this out, the price of gas is set dynamically by the miners. If ETH goes to 10,509,340,090 per ether then the cost of gas will be adjusted accordingly. Ether does not have to remain low for contracts to be affordable, this is a fundamental part of the protocol.
>>1140116
ding ding ding
>>1139534
There are so many problems with a trustless model for physical locks, it is actually better to have a centralized party involved...
Normies will favor renting a physical lock through a reputable company with a service desk, payable from their bank acct.
Dont get me wrong i bought some ether even at the 1 dollar level and im riding this train but i havent seen 1 app that blows my mind yet.
I am a computer science msc so i can actually put thus all in perspective and decode the technobabble. Show me 1 dapp that does something that cant be implemented using bitcoin or regular tech... because i havent seen it.
Slock.it depends on instant microtransactions on a programmable blockchain. It couldn't be implemented with paypal or even BTC.
>>1140447
Yes it can, put a code on the lock, hook it up to internet and only send the code plus rent time after someone pays for time with paypal from your online platform...
>>1140262
augur
>>1140501
What does augur offer besides gambling, which normies can do in billions of places with existing tech?
>>1140491
It cant work.
It would take days to get it unlocked.
>>1140491
I mean, with Ethereum you can be sure it will work, exactly as programmed each and every time, without needing to trust paypal.
>>1139309
Do you have any idea what an ignoramus you sound like right now? The reason why you have no clue what V Butin is talking about is because the talks that he is giving are for developers. Not just any developers either - mostly people interested in crypto-finance of which there are very few experts in the field world-wide (its only existed within the past 5 or so years.)
So in a nutshell: what Ethereum allows you to do is specify complex conditions for spending money. The conditions can be virtually anything - and they are enforced by a global network of computers in such a way that the outcomes cannot be cheated - which is generally revolutionary. Interestingly enough - Bitcoin also allows for this but its scripting language is much more simple and limited. So essentially what Ethereum is - is trustless, frictionless finance for everything where you don't have to trust that a person or company will uphold their end of a contract.
Everything Ethereum does is based on cryptography - thought its also flexible enough to incorporate any number of outside secrets. So you can even link the state of say - number of likes on given Facebook posts to some kind of financial outcome. It opens up so many new possibilities that we don't yet know what to do with it.
>>1140715
>that we don't yet know what to do with it
Hey you can shill it until its spam and turn it into a pump n dump pyramid scheme!
>>1140720
...or you can just buy some and shut the fuck up about it until its actually really used by more than 1% of the people who buy this shit. I'm guessing you will choose option A.
>>1140720
I'm not invested. I work in the Bitcoin-space and thought the post I was quoting was retarded. It's just like some guy came along and complained that Ethereum had poor marketing because he didn't understand it -- not realizing that the entire product is a novel payment and smart contract system built for developers, and he wasn't the audience anyway.
This is kind of like when people wonder in here off of Facebook and start complaining about the gore and the "autistic anime weirdos" not realizing that 4chan has always been for degenerate losers and they're the ones who don't belong here.
>>1140715
>thought its also flexible enough to incorporate any number of outside secrets. So you can even link the state of say - number of likes on given Facebook posts to some kind of financial outcome. It opens up so many new possibilities that we don't yet know what to do with it.
Hey I was just wondering about this today. Can a dapp specify a URL to get some piece of data from?
