Why do milennials think free college is a good idea? It will only inflate the job market with more students, thus making it more competitive to get hired. Their liberal cuck degrees will literally become even more worthless.
Because they are short-thinking.
They aren't capable of thinking about repercussions of such big changes. Only the short-term.
>Just make $15/hr the minimum wage bro! These people can't afford to eat!
nah, free college will just make the system harder overall therefore having higher competition for entrance to certain programs. Free college doesn't guarantee everyone will go, it just makes it easier to go for the people who are more determined for the education. It also makes it harder for people to pass the class with all the competition.
>>1120730
It's not "free college" that's the problem, it's the declining value that a college degree holds. This current response to this is to inflate the price of college in response to it's demand.
This creates a debt system where the degree holder is both shackled with heavy debt for a certificate that's rapidly losing it's value. It forces the student into the workforce (which is a good thing) but the quality of work is no longer lining up proportionately to the cost of investment.
In reality more value should be placed on technical certifications, work experience and job training to reduce the demand of university degrees which would improve the quality of work a degree holder could acquire. This would produce a sort of buoyancy that would positively affect the culture and economy of our nation.
>>1120745
Even libcucks themselves say a large percentage of capable people do not go because of the cost. It's literally the main platform for it.
>>1120745
my point is, the flux in graduates won't all of the sudden bubble up. The determined will make it through and the people who don't value their education as much will flounder. They no longer have the money saving their asses on an easier ride through.
I am so sick of this of 'right-wing' people should pay for college, muh supply and demand, muh communism bullshit.
Looking at it logically, a college degree over the long term can pull people out of debt, increase the nation's economic performance, increase entrepreneurship and innovation and in turn make people rich enough to not have to rely on the government for social security. In honesty, the government should be encouraging as many people as possible to go to college as it is the only real way you fools can have boner inducing small gubbermint.
>>1120767
>oh but muh quality of student
>oh but muh quality of education
If you want to be a high class faggot university, have a high acceptance rate, require more contact hours, etc...
>>1120767
A college degree only commands a higher salary because of what it entails. It doesn't inherently make you earn more.
If all of a sudden everyone had a degree we would NOT be better off economically. Some parts of the world have drastically higher rates of higher education among adults.
Guess what. Those countries are eating shit economically.
It becomes the new "normal". Before you only needed a hs diploma for certain jobs? -- oh now everyone has a degree, so that's the new minimum requirement.
>>1120773
You would be better off, you are assuming some sort of fixed limit on the maximum {lawyer,accountant,doctor,etc...}
but as more people become rich the need for these kinds of services and businesses will also increase.
That will be the new normal.
And what country are you referring to?
>>1120730
dude free shit lmao
Its not just about jobs, wouldn't you rather have a more educated populace?
>>1120795
>Fixed limit on professions
Uhh yes?
There isn't unlimited jobs for these people. Supply and demand, if supply increases demand isn't going to magically stretch to accommodate.
>As more people become rich
Why do you think more people going to college means more wealth will be created? It doesn't.
>What country
There's many, Russia and most East European countries come to mind.
Russia for example has the highest percentage of college-educated adults in the world. - 53%.
Why don't you ask how they're doing economically?
>>1120802
College doesn't neccesairly make you out more educated though.
>>1120730
I hope this has answered your question.
>>1120805
They are under sanctions but sure I'll play. They rely entirely on gas pipelines for most of the economy. Remind you of anyone?
Also, Russia is not exactly the type of country you can compare us with is it?
If you can't see that the economy will expand as more people have more disposable income and they will require more goods and services...
>>1120810
I'm not even arguing this. Bug statistically it makes make you earn more money and our enrollments have only increased over the last many years and I don't think I've ever heard of some industry association saying oh no our average wage is falling like a tonne of bricks.
>>1120818
>More expendable income
That's true but more degrees doesn't equal more disposable income... That's what I'm telling you.
Supply will increase but demand will not. It will lower wages due to competition.
>>1120818
It makes you earn more because it is proof you're a hardworking and smart person. If all of a sudden everyone had one then everyone would be "smart" which means no one is smart.
>I've never heard
Are you retarded? Millenials, liberals and conservatives alike are saying that that "Lol a degree is le useless nowadays!" And complaining about how hard it is to find a job little they pay. And your solution is to make competition even MORE fierce?
Besides what degrees do you want to make free? All of them? Or the actual useful ones and not sociology and women's studies?
>>1120832
Does high school not make you more educated or intelligent either? What about elementary school? Or should we just stop altogether at bkindergarten
>>1120832
>degrees aren't free you know this
Are you serious with this mix and match us/yurop rhetoric. You aren't basing your arguments on a single country now. If you want to 'win' this badly then you can have it. Gratz.
>>1120815
Whoever wrote that really exemplifies cuckoldry
Why not replace the current federal subsidies for student loans with merit based scholarships for the best students?
>>1120839
They do, and everyone knows that they are the bare minimum for finding a job. It would be the same way with College.
The difference is marginal returns.
Someone who passed highschool vs someone who didn't - in practical measures is better off. College is not so much the same. It's too specific and theoretical compared to Highschool and elementary school.
>>1120773
A more educated workforce might also spend their money better. Oh and while the value of a COLLEGE degree goes down, the value of specific degrees (mostly stem) will probably not decrease that much desu.
>>1120867
>Might spend their money better
And why would we want this exactly?
Most businesses and industries are based around people spending irresponsibly.
I can't be a winner without many losers.
>>1120858
I would not have made it to university in such a system
>>1120877
No surprise there from your posts.
>>1120879
You wouldn't have either Mr Ching chong scholarship
>>1120730
Why not just extend highschool for 4 stupid years and give people super highschool diplomas.
They are dumb as shit, they are just making a new highschool diploma that requires more years and more tax money. They need to grow the fuck up.
>>1120888
But Bernie will create more jobs for everyone and their new degrees...
>>1120730
Because then you won't be $50k in debt making $10 an hour with your saturated STEM degree. You'd still be making $10 an hour, but at least you could put it to living expenses then.
>>1120914
Or skip the STEM degree and college debt if you arent willing to do whatever it takes to get the job. But that makes too much sense
>>1120949
It must be nice having a daddy to give you a cushy well paying job with no qualifications. Not everyone is so lucky.
>>1120952
Nice strawman. $10 an hour is hardly a "well paying" job. Might as well skip the degree and debt was my point, you snarky faggot. I work trades for $30/hr. No wasted degree or rich dad here
>>1120888
This is the best solution IMO. Modify mandatory education standards to keep up with the demands for a more educated workforce.
Admission standards need to be higher. More (free/cheap tuition) trade/job schools.
like germany.
>>1121007
But the demands will keep expanding...
>>1120745
>being a cog in the machine
>this is a good thing
>>1120730
This statement and literally every argument I've heard defending no free college all implies that either acceptance rates would stay exactly the same for some fucking reason or that free college also means abolishing the admissions requirements.
News flash: a hundred million people will apply to every big name uni (harvard, stanford, mit, yale, etc) and a hundred million will be turned down.
>>1121232
my state's flagship university has a NINETY THREE PERCENT acceptance rate
one day college is free and it drops to 1%? fuck off
>>1120730
>one age demographic unanimously shares the same opinion
You're pretending to be ignorant, right?
>>1121044
>Admission standards need to be higher
>like germany
Well they sure as fuck go into the opposite direction with their recent changes such as G8 etc. We will have fucking 16 year olds in uni this coming winter semester. They really are turning university into high school 2.0.
free doesn't mean stupid people with no skills or ambition won't still stay home and eat Fritos. It's just an opportunity for people who actually WANT to succeed but can't afford it.
What really needs to happen is radical reforms at the K-12 level to make it less shit and a job guarantee. This would be 100% more socially beneficial than free college ever could be
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Job_guarantee#Overview
>>1120815
Holy fucking shit. How can a person be so proficient in self deception? Deep down he has to know that he doesn't give shit about his own fucking daughter.
wouldkill/10
>>1120730
College is free in Europe. In fact public university is even free in Mexico.
Your point is invalid OP.
>>1121971
>College is free in Europe.
It isn't. Europe isn't a nation, every member of the EU has it's own rules regarding higher education.
How come no one talks about trade school as an alternative to college?
Are the idiots here just pushing an empty narrative?
>>1121982
>How come no one talks about trade school as an alternative to college?
Trades aren't seen as an alternative since they don't get you into accounting or programming. Of course you'll make money, even good money, but going into a trade. But you won't be able to browse the Chans and fuck around on Facebook while doing so, which doesn't seem to relate to many /biz/nessmen.
>>1121984
Because trades are for the underclass of society.
I mean I guess it's fine if you've decided your fate but for others they (rightfully) strive for something a little bit better.
>>1121971
Some stats for our fellow americucks.
> 85% of adult Swedes have at least a trade degree
> 71% of Finns
> 82% of Norwegians
> 82% of Danes
The entire populace is literate, and the majority is educated. Have they
all crashed like the fearmongers here say?
> b-but the taxes are high
Stop playing world owner and stop paying for that huge military, for
starters.
> jobs are more competitive
Unemployment is not 4x that of US. It's between 1 and 2x in each, which
puts that to rest.
>>1121984
Oh, trades do get you into programming or accounting. Just like plumbing or electrician work.
>>1121971
America has the best university system in the world, faggot. We don't need to emulate Europoors or Mexicucks. So your rebuttal is invalid.
>>1122039
> leaves students tens or hundreds of thousands in debt
> despite this, the quality of teaching is still on average a lot worse than Scandinavia
> best
>>1120730
You forget that university itself has limited seats. Competition to get into university will increase, driving up the marks and grades required to get into any program. Well i'm speaking from a Canadian univeristy perspective where they arent able to massively increase program seats in all the higher paying degrees unless some major investments are made.
>>1122046
Scandi Unis are not that good, at least by European standards.
>>1122046
>literally implying students from all over the world don't come to America to study
>>1122060
Oh, they do, but not for "better education". They come for money, which the US has most at the moment.
> muh app making a loss getting 400M from VCs
>>1122075
Now count how many unis are in US in total, and calculate an average. One Harvard will not save hundreds of crap.
>>1122080
Count how many universities relative to population then.
BTW even the most random state university is actually ranked pretty well worldwide, generally.
>>1122082
> Count how many universities relative to population then.
That's not related to teaching quality at all?
> even the most random state university is actually ranked pretty well worldwide, generally.
Yeah, but not in comparison to a random Scandi uni, which in turn lose to average German unis, etc.
>>1120730
C'nadian here,
>Shitty government making shitty decision
>Make tuition free if family income below 50k
>Everyone going apeshit happy
>OSAP (Ontario student loan) is the greatest loan service where they give you a shitload of bursaries
>Loan easily payable unless you're really trying not to pay it
I'm 100% done with university, 1 more semester and I'm heading to America. If Trump wins even better.
>>1122075
>>1122082
The ranking of a university depends in no small part on how eager they are to attract out of state students and for the most part this is something that only US and UK universities care about.
That is not to say that the top tier aren't top tier.
Also I noticed some pretty ridiculous rankings.
Look at this for example:
http://www.shanghairanking.com/ARWU2015.html
My university is ranked very highly but I can tell for a fact that it does not compare to Pisa. Not even close. Not sure why that is but the ranking is entirely fucked up with Pisa being way below when it should be top 25 at least.
Also my university is actually trying to attract foreign students and "miraculous" it shot up in the rankings these last couple of years.
Lel it's probably easy to game this shit.
>>1121976
oK, then:
In EVERY country that form the E.U. college is free (more or less... could be a tax between 1000 or 5000 euro per year, but depend on your tax declaration and the state).
>>1122104
>Family income below 50k
So what happens if the student moves out and lives alone? Do they get free tuition then? If so: why wouldnt everyone do that?
>college statistically earns people more money
That's falling, and free college would make it fall farther. It's common sense that once everyone's an "educated" college graduate, no one's an educated college graduate. Send more people into trades and labor. Stop feeding the fire.
>>1122109
No its not. Ireland has registration fees of Iver €4k per year. Time in uni is time not working, so mammy and daddy need to pay living costs of ~1k a month.
Not expensive but someone from the rough parts is unlikely to go due to cost alone
I just don't understand why it's not understandable that someone has to get shat on.
The solution is to privatize education and have the market decide the best schools. The problem with government is they're wrong most of the time and it makes everything worst for a long time.
>>1122170
You're looking at it wrong. They shit on themselves by not making their situation better. Life is about choices and its consequences
>>1122212
No, life is about shitposting on 4chin.
>>1122206
>I can't think of any moment is recent history where it was revealed that private education was set up as a sham school giving out worthless degrees to retards
ISHYGDDT
>>1120746
Definitely agree with this. More subsidies and apprenticeships should be readily available.
Unfortunately, parents raise their kids thinking university is the only path to success, no matter what degree it is
>>1122170
>'
Yeah lets give everyone a free degree so people like me who paid for it and still can't find a job can have even more retards look just as good as me and not be in debt for it. I'm educated and I'm pissed I'm already set up to be shat on the rest of my life (29 yo)
>>1120871
It's not a zero sum game. Instead of worrying about some imaginary dilution of the value of a degree (which is happening already anyways, but you're now stuck with debt), try to get to the top of the class. Or get accepted into a hard as balls school, where being free does not mean it's open to everyone. And as far as I can tell, the whole "free school" thing is for public schools, which should be free in the first place when they're publicly funded.
>>1122230
To be fair, Full Sail has enough graduates per capita in the entertainment business (tons were on the Mad Max team) than should be possible for a scam school. Of course, those same connections are more than likely how they're accomplishing that.
>>1122212
So you're saying that everyone deserves to be given what I had to work to pay for, for free? Not everything works out for everyone because it worked out for you. Some of us work hard and still get shat on. I wish all my hard work had got me further but sometimes life happens. You don't choose to get hit by cars, raped, sick, etc
>>1122279
So will the people who paid their tuition years ago get refunds if it becomes free?
You can still have free college with most degrees being worthless (from the academic / intellectual point of view).
t. Scotland
Or maybe England pays for us I don't know
>>1122163
>Ireland has registration fees of Iver €4k per year
False: Ireland has the Capitation Charge tax that tax the stundents in proportion of the family annual income
>mammy and daddy need to pay living costs of ~1k a month
I only stated that College is free (or has a minium taxation), don't change the topic
Tfw go to an Ivy League school and still most of the kids here are retarded lib cucks.
I'm currently studying in New Zealand and it's cost me quite a bit, if I knew German I would go study there and then return to NZ when I graduated because collage is free over there. Fuck, I should learn German.
>>1122288
Why not? That's money they shouldn't have paid.
>>1120730
Simple. Your education potential shouldn't be based on how much money your parents make, it should be based on how smart you are.
All these retards who think colleges are just diploma mills are dropouts.
>>1122535
how's that any more fair.
You inherited both money and IQ from your parents and growing environment. You had nothing to do with either.
>>1120767
Hah! Yeah things have been great for real wages post gi bill
College will just become a mandatory second highschool and paid post-college institutions will fill the role that colleges do now. However, post-college graduates will now be entering the work-force at 25 and the cultural plague that is extended adolescence will worsen as an entire generation becomes manchildren.
>>1121467
they have room for a million students?
>>1121512
man, that guy was retarded
> i'm the president and i don't even know what a right is!
So when will student loan debt be clearable through typical bankruptcy?
I would think that it would clear out all of the worthless degrees that have set themselves ilup everywhere these days.
>>1120730
because inteligence not money should be indicator of high education
>>1120730
>Why do milennials think free college is a good idea?
Because college costs too much. The government needs to step in and curtail the cost of college.
The current system is simple exploitation, the government provides loans for college, so colleges charge more b/c they know the government will subsidize people's need for education, at the same time reducing the value of the degree.
>>1123730
>government needs to step out
Ftfy
>>1123263
This is probably the solution. No more $100k loans for women's studies majors.
>>1122311
The underlying, faulty assumption OP is making is that college being free would mean that now you're guaranteed to every single degree. Nevermind admissions could still be tight, and so would be staying in the program/school.
>>1123730
>Because college costs too much. The government needs to step in and curtail the cost of college.
College costs so much because the government stepped in in the first place. By making student loan debt insolvable through bankruptcy and effectively guaranteeing returns to the lenders, the lenders have no incentive to not lend as much money as possible to maximize profits, and therefore the universities have no incentives not to charge as much as possible.
This is basic economics.
>>1123771
No the faulty assumption you are making is that there is such a thing as free. Who pays to keep the college running?
>>1122551
Yeah but IQ tends to improve your research and learning capabilities while money does not. Not money shouldn't factor in that much, as it has nothing to do with university.
>>1122129
>if everyone can read then no one can
>>1123785
>>1123760
>>1123785
>and therefore the universities have no incentives not to charge as much as possible.
Which is why you should make it illegal to charge more than a reasonable amount for universities that expect to receive federal loans.
It's good that the government made loans accessible, but they didn't follow through and let business exploit the shit out of people who want an education. It was a mistake, but only because they didn't see it through to the end.
>>1123785
With all that free money the banks are lending though, we've got the absolute best colleges in the world. Like literally 80% of the top 25 are American.
Honestly I don't see why we couldn't just make CC free and keep the real universities how they are. Burdening them with retarded students, and less money will bring them down. An uneducated population will bring society down though.
>>1123928
So you want a complete public takeover of colleges everywhere? The federal government cant tell companies what they can and cant charge, thats illegal
I'm guessing a lot of you are in college now? Daily reminder that almost no modern day programs have anything to do with challenging you or teaching you valuable skills. If you want to be in tech or science or any analytical work, you don't need a degree or even a clue about the job. As it stands smart kids go to good schools but ultimately still waste the same 4 years they could have otherwise spent on training and earning. Higher education should be free online (it is) and nearly free at community college (it is if you qualify). But it's just higher education. It has nothing to do with muh supply and demand anymore, and realistically what you went to school for in the past was to connect with people. Going to a place where everyone is on their iphones and dreaming of becoming a superstar while barely getting through calculus will affect you negatively. If you want those kinds of good environments today you go straight to work or get into a community online or in a club. The entire university industry is just playing off of kids having fewer responsibilities. Some fields you can't avoid going but you can still do it extremely cheap. Even there any decent program recognizes that you need to spend more time working with professionals than reading books or whatever you idiots think you will do in class.
>>1121953
Itz
Its a troll post. Obviously. If you think your opponent is that dumb, you aren't giving enough credit to them.
>>1120746
Anyone not agreeing with this is just posting about their tears
>>1122331
Lad what are talking about?
That is almost completely wrong. The only bit you got right is that I digressed the topic, but your facts on the topic are just wrong.
Did you make it up yourself?
>>1123929
>an uneducated population will bring society down
What do you imagine our ancestors were? Hear me out here and decide for yourself whether or not these are just the crazy ramblings of a fool:
Currently, one can bring a poor villager to this country and they will do perfectly fine. They already know how to survive in a poor environment, so they practically see money growing on trees here. A lot of them don't just keep working manual labor, they pool money together and start little shops or services. They do better in this country than college graduates that start "poor" or middle class and typically end up being poor or middle class. Their poor survival knowledge does better than book learning.
So then we have a country of pampered, air conditioned babies (and even fuckwads calling air conditioners sexist), whose only aspirations are either winning the lottery or getting muh ejewcayshun and working under someone else. These schools don't teach you how to be the next decent business in your town, they teach you how to hopefully get a job. How fucking STUPID is that?! That's your shitty little aspiration, a job. Why not create your own job? Schools won't teach you that. How many shop classes are given in high school nowadays? I'll give you a hint: Almost none since the 70s. That garage in Grease where all the teens are working on a car - no shit, that was actually a thing. Now you're indoctrinated into a system that teaches you neither proper history, how to fix or how to create. You are a product of an already driveless society.
So why, ever, try to create a society of mostly college educated people? We definitely don't need social studies. Most shitheads don't like history. The French language isn't going to benefit most people outside of France and Quebec. English helps if only the person learning can't already read for themselves. Woodworking is undervalued and computer shittence is far too overvalued. College most definitely IS NOT for everyone.
>>1124646
Obligatory 9/11 was an inside job buy ETH this novel written by, etc.
>>1120767
So if everybody has a degree what separates them apart?
>>1124649
Fuck. I was with you until buy ETH. You ruined it.
>>1124653
The joke is people treating it like a poor man's conspiracy. I don't actually pay attention to ETH (nocoiner4lyfe).
>>1124655
Ahhhhh. I get it now.
>>1120730
I'm a millennial and typically proud of my generation, but all I can say to your question is, "Sometimes, we can be real retards".
Though I don't think it's so much millenials really shilling for it as people who work in the university system. The discussions between my facebook friends on the subject tend towards the skeptical.
>>1120730
not really, people with bad grades just wouldn't go to college.
>>1122241
what are you on about? skilled labour is in high demand always will be
Not all millennials do
plenty of my peers can't fucking stand Bernie and his bullshit
many are able to see how free education will fuck our system
Why can't Amerifats just use Sander's Free College Cash to make high school less shitty? I didn't do jackshit in high school, but I graduated with a 3.8. Would requiring entrance exams to public high schools help? I felt like some students were significantly ahead with no effort, and others were left in the dust despite trying their hardest. There are charter schools with "higher standards" but there were no qualifications. A lot of my friends who went to those weren't even smart, their parents just forced them to.
I feel like college can already be pretty affordable for those who really want it. I'm going to community college for free on an easy scholarship, and doing my best to keep my grades up in hopes of getting some scholarships when I transfer to the local uni. I live with my parents and I have a part time job, saving in hopes of moving out when I transfer. My younger brother is going to the local trade school during the second half of the day at his HS. Totally free transportation and education. The government is already paying for our shit. The only reason these kids get tens of thousands into debt is because they don't have enough personal income yet they want to continue living their cushy lifestyles, go to some fancy out-of-state school, and go out for lunch and drinks all the time. A lot of my friends are like this, and they whine that the government doesn't give them enough money. They do, but you have to compromise too.
imo: if college was "free" a lot of kids would start going, realize it was too hard or too much involvement, then stop going or be a general waste of space and time.
>>1120815
This was definitely written by a /pol/lack. Not even Bernie supporters are this cucked.
>>1121232
This. Acceptance rates at public universities would plummet. Most kids would have to apply to twenty or more public schools, and they would be lucky to get into one.
