>All these degree tier memes all the time
>mfw I did a 3/2 program and went to a prestigious Liberal Arts college for a BA followed by going to an Ivy League college for Engineering
Let me shed some light on all of this memery for you so that the impressionable kids at home can make informed decisions.
The curriculum for most of the humanities and social sciences is great, but the standards are lax as fuck because as colleges have become for-profit degree mills while catering to legacy students. The dumb kids are pushed, by choice or necessity, into the humanities or soft sciences because the standards are so lax that anybody with a functioning brain can pass without really internalizing the curriculum. The Poli-sci/IR department could be churning out only mini-Kissingers every year. The Psych department could be churning out Freud upon Freud. The Business department could be churning out Sam Waltons and Bill Gates' like widgets. The reason that they aren't is because there is more money in it for the school if they let dumb kids pass, which is god awful for our would-be Kissingers, Freuds, and Waltons because now they have the same credentials and GPA as twenty other shitheads who are going out into the workforce and netting them a bad reputation. Don't expect this problem to be fixed anytime soon, but expect that as the wheat is separated from the chaff in these fields after college the process might be painful, and salaries will probably remain lower than for STEM overall.
cont'd
Then you've got STEM. STEM is great. I'm getting my Engineering Degree and license in a few years. But STEM doesn't teach you how government works and why. It doesn't teach you to appreciate the power of the novel. STEM damned sure doesn't teach you the historical context of today's events. Bridges to other cultures and ways of thinking are not opened up for you. The curriculum doesn't shape you into a broad, well rounded thinker possessed of culture and refinement. It effectively leaves you as a highly specialized technician whose labor is very valuable but who is gimped in terms of being able to comprehend modern society. I've met architectural and civil engineers who couldn't critically think their way out of a paper bag, and Chemistry PhDs who didn't know how WW2 happened. Outside of their narrow field they wind up as ignorant as a plumber or a janitor.
Personally I think that my way of doing things with a dual program is superior in that it nets me the best of both worlds, but that's just me. Now can this shitty memery just die?
>b-but muh women's studies and minority studies a shit!
>b-but art history is just four years of partying on someone else's money!
Yes, I know. THAT nobody is disputing.
You're not wrong, but it seems like being competent in both STEM and the humanities is redundant.
>>1108366
The STEM degree is both a fallback and proof of your competence. The Liberal Arts degree equips you to handle functioning in higher society and lets you do something other than your narrow specialization in STEM.
>>1108344
>But STEM doesn't teach you how government works and why. It doesn't teach you to appreciate the power of the novel. STEM damned sure doesn't teach you the historical context of today's events. Bridges to other cultures and ways of thinking are not opened up for you.
I pity the pathetic suburbanite pleb who learned all this because they went to college
jesus christ
THESE ARE THINGS ALL PEOPLE SHOULD LEARN
a college education is not mandatory for this
>>1108407
>a high school grad is going to be multi-lingual and understand the distinctions between the parliamentary and presidential electoral systems while being able to contrast the two types of American Presidents and understand the historical context of modern Russo-Persian relations
No. You either don't realize how much there is to really learn about these matters, or you have too high an opinion of what people without higher education are like.
>>1108341
Ok bro, just remember you spent $100k and 4 years of your life to read some books and kill brain cells to no effect on your future employment.
>>1108573
OP is literally redoing college.
I spent 7 semesters teaching all majors of undergrads at a Big 10 school.
Undergrad STEM majors are not materially different from undergrad Liberal Arts majors in any way except that they typically know Calculus.
>>1108341
>The Business department could be churning out Sam Waltons and Bill Gates' like widgets
Stopped reading there, you are deluded kid.
>>1108420
books exist you dweeb.
You're talking as if the only way of gaining knowledge is through school. The irony.
>trying this hard to feel better about poor decisions
>being this pompous about being a student who reads books
You have literally done nothing of value. No one cares.
>>1108344
You don't need college to learn about history. You do need it to prove you're a chemical engineer though.
>>1108420
Literally just read books. You do not need a 4 year degree to learn all of that, unlike in STEM where grasping the concepts through self learning is beyond everyone but geniuses.
>reading you do at home and by yourself equivocates to a BA in the humanities
Man, I can't believe some of the replies to this thread.
>>1108557
Not even remotely.
>>1108573
Some degrees mean less and less.
>>1108583
>literally redoing college
Do you even reading comprehension?
>>1108624
Hyperbole is not delusion.
>>1108630
Some light reading isn't going to equate to a degree in the humanities no matter how much you pretend otherwise.
>>1108698
>You don't need college to learn about history
Right, because there is a great deal of competition against dedicated programs overseen by professional educators with time blocked out to intensive study of important texts and events.
>>1108759
No. You don't seem to comprehend the difference.
>>1108420
Thats just because your school system is fucked up
>>1109738
Actually our top 10% of high school grads fare better than anyone else's.
>>1109744
No, not understanding how society works is expensive. So is having a shit salary. I'm pointing out some possible rungs for people to help scale the hierarchy.
Yep, we're going to push grads into the STEM field, suppress wages, and make sure that they are kept ignorant of government, history, and foreign culture. But I'm explaining how to avoid being one of the sheep because I know that some people here who are impressionable high schoolers want to do better than that.
>>1109754
>But I'm explaining how to avoid being one of the sheep because I know that some people here who are impressionable high schoolers want to do better than that
You should charge for your services, have you considered writing a book? Tons of impressionable high schoolers who "want to succeed" would eat it up.
>>1109761
You mock, but in South Korea people have made enough to retire on by getting into the colleges that I've gotten into and coming back to write a book on how to do it.
>>1108420
>understand the distinctions between the parliamentary and presidential electoral systems
read decent newspapers/magazines
>while being able to contrast the two types of American Presidents
read one book
>understand the historical context of modern Russo-Persian relations
read another book
so, two books and a couple dozen magazine articles. your degree in history and poli-sci would prepare you to write an academic article on those things, but just understanding them? any decently well-read person on the subject can do that
>>1109767
I'm actually only semi-mocking. The subtleties of things like mockery and sarcasm don't carry well over the internet
>>1109770
>read decent newspapers/magazines
Not of sufficient quality, and those that are typically aim at audiences already familiar with such nuance.
>read one book
Nope, covered in text books on poli-sci, but not outside of them. I know of nobody outside of people who have taken those courses who know what the two types are.
>read another book
Nope. A class on the subject gives you a book, a number of primary documents, and hands on instruction from an expert who is often ex-state department or ex-CIA on the subject.
>just understanding them
If you REALLY think that you understand any of these subjects from two books and a couple dozen magazine articles then your reddit power level must lend you the equivalent of like a double PhD bro.
>>1109779
Eh. I have a feeling that there are already too many saturating the market for something as predictive and niche as I'd like to write. Probably something along the lines of "How to avoid being a serf in 2036" or something equally cheesy.
OP if doing this turns me into a pretentious autist such as yourself, then I'm not interested. History is cool, but it sucks for employment. I'd much rather make history than sit around and learn about it. Humanities just aren't in that high of demand for a lot of employers. Having technical expertise though can always help, and that's generally only acquired through a university
>>1109791
>Pretentious autist
Being accepted into high society means becoming cultured. Someone telling you how to better yourself isn't pretension.
Four out of the nine degrees most likely to propel you to six figures are humanities, and what I'm proposing has a very low opportunity cost.
>>1109784
wow, so you need some ex-CIA goon to tell you the state of relations between Iran and Russia? you just 100% need it, you simply cannot know it without it?
i guess the "critical thinking" part of your education got left behind somewhere
>your reddit power level
funny you should mention that, as they happen to be the place that would agree the most with your retarded ideas. maybe you should go there
>>1109809
Man, I guess you're one of those people who think that college is a literal scam. Good luck making it in society.
>>1109814
i'm at a top 10 college right now for a soft-science, so thank you for the well wishes i guess
i hate people who read a couple articles in some mainstream newspaper and think theyre the foremost experts on the thing they read about, but i hate smug undergrads who think just because theyve read a couple books and had a ph.d further chew the ideas for them that they can just dismiss everyone even more
>>1109754
only 10% is actually good? Thats a low rate.
Anyway, im talking from a cultural point of view,you say high school grads are not prepared for that kind of education, while in most civiliced countries, well, at least in mine, they graduate knowing at least 3 languages, not including latin, having some sort of knowledge of international politics, philosophy, you name it.
>>1109825
>I hate people who think that their light reading equivocates to a degree
>I also hate people whose education focuses on disciplines other than my own
Sounds like you're just generally salty. Or maybe you are ass-ravaged by the idea that you're not quite king of shit mountain.
>>1109828
Not what I mean. Our top 10% outperforms your top 10%. Your mid 40% outperforms everyone else's. Asia's bottom 50% outperforms everyone else's, at least in Japan.
>Eurofags speak 3 languages
Yes, all European languages. Not Chinese. Not Arabic. Nothing too foreign. Aside from that it's the same as here in the US. Everything you listed is part of the curriculum, but high school doesn't go deep enough to cover a real understanding of the topics.
>>1109837
>I also hate people whose education focuses on disciplines other than my own
except I never said that. smug undergrads really are the worst, talk to me when you had your first paper published (as I'm going to, next month)
your reading comprehension skills need some work too
>>1109837
Oh im sorry i got it wrong.
>Eurofag
im just an argie sorry m8
You are right about that, they should teach at least chinese, it will be mandatory in some point.
Oh so you do have philosophy in your highschools? do you know how many hours/week or how many years they have to take that class?
>>1109867
We have something for our top students called the AP program. It allows top students to take college classes while in high school. A 3 on the exam (out of 5) gives credit at most schools, a 4 nets credit at particularly selective schools, and a 5 nets honors credit at all colleges. Also offered are two full years of foreign language, which are required in most decent high schools here for all levels of students. The advanced class is the one that most AP students go into.
Our top highschoolers go to college multi-lingual, with a year of credit and possibly honors credit knocked out (AP tests are cheap), Calculus 1 and often Statistics already taken, and expecting to graduate with a 4 year degree in 3 years or less. Now the dregs of our high schools? They get enough help to barely be functional workers at McDonalds.
You really have to know the ins and outs of how our schools work before you judge.
>>1109875
Seems like a pain in the ass.
Oh i wasnt judging, i was legit curious how many hours do they dedicate to something "trivial" i guess as philosophy or maybe arts, you know, stuff that only grows you in a cultural way and have no impact on the economic world
>>1109889
Assume whatever you like anon.
>>1109893
Im not assuming nothing i already said i barely know your system
I'm an econ major, do I fall under the category of "dumb kids are pushed ... into the humanities or soft sciences.."?
>>1110102
No, or you'd have been shunted into business imo.
Rrrrrise from your gwave!
