Britfags - Are you an inner or an outer and why?
>>1105757
I think I'm in favour of leaving the EU, just to get away from all the extra taxation and all the regulations on shit.
>>1105757
>be scottish
>be told that if we vote to leave UK, we will also leave EU
>told the only way to stay in EU is to stay in UK
>stay in UK
>find out that even if 100% of scots vote to stay in EU.. the rest of the UK can still vote us out of EU anyway
I dunno mang. I'm voting to stay in. Hopefully it's an overall no vote due to racist english voters. That way it will trigger a 2nd scottish independence referendum and they will be tasked with producing yet another wave of in/out hypocrisy
>>1105795
overall out vote*
I forget which side has yes and no this time
>>1105757
In. The regulatory burden is wildly, massively overhyped, and is stuff we'd have to sign up to in a free trade agreement anyway. I don't mind European immigrants either, they're predominantly hard-working, secular, and integrate extremely well. Europe also gave us guaranteed paid holiday and rest days, transparently priced flights and utilities, and cheap international calls; European regulations and courts have actually done a shitload for the consumer. Most of all, selling financial and other services to the EU accounts for a huge slab of the UK's GDP. London is going to struggle to retain its status outside of Europe, the pound will most likely devalue significantly, and the various international companies currently headquartered here will start to leave for the continent.
>>1105757
If the UK leaves I'm so fucked.
I own a business and my supplier is from england. If they leave EU I'll have to shut down.
Why would they want to leave the EU?
Its a serious step backwards.
>>1105801
They won't suddenly stop doing business with you. We hear the same bullshit in reverse here.
>>1105819
No, but there will be additional fees/taxes, most likely bullshit customs too (Even more fees, paperwork and delayS) and that will drive my profit margin and customer satisfaction to bedrock.
I just don't get why UK is actually considering it seriously. The arguments I've seen are all "muh freedums regulations", and when you ask someone to name examples, they can't come up with a single one.
Leaving the EU would seriously fuck up the UK financially. They'd lose direct access to the markets of the largest economy block in the world.
I'll vote out. Because it's the option likliest to to destroy both the UK and the EU.
>>1105815
We don't get anything out of it and EU fucks us over constantly. See: France letting illegals through Calais since forever, European debt that we've had to pay out, extremely loose laws around letting people into England in general (we want anyone that comes here to speak English and work, but we can't enforce that)
>>1105830
>We don't get anything out of it
Lolwut. Britons seriously believe this.
>>1105757
I'm not sure what would be better for the money.
GBP is expected to drop and drop until the result and if the result is that we leave the EU, it'll drop even more than it did 8 years ago meaning it could potentially earn you a lot more over a longer period as it rises back up. On the other hand it may be better to hope we stay in so the GBP skyrockets back up soon for a quick profit.
PROTIP: The main reason for wanting to leave the EU doesnt have much to do with international finance for the average person. Its more because the general populace is getting more and more intolerant with migration.
The population is growing by 500,000 per year mostly from the EU (particularly Eastern Europe), whole towns are being culturally cleansed of anything 'English'.
Theres stress on the national health service because they cant keep up with growing demand. House prices are growing by like 25% per year (its about £300,000 to get a 2 room flat in a shit part of London). School places are dwindling and wages are stagnating.
Basically, the country cant keep up with such massive unplanned population growth and British people are sick of it.
>>1105833
Please educate me on what we get out of being in the EU. Go on, I'll wait.
>>1105830
>We don't get anything out of it and EU
>European debt that we've had to pay out
Nice try Britbong.
>>1105841
Access to the single largest economy block in the world? You have no idea how badly it would fuck up trade and finance if the UK actually quit EU.
Then again, UK has been responsible for pushing through some of the shittiest regulations in EU. So at least that would stop.
>>1105839
And incompetend as they are, they now want to leave the EU because of problems they themselves can't deal with.
Leaving will somehow fix things and not cause a single problem and everything is A ok again.
In less than 10 years they will beg for help and to be let in again.
>>1105801
That means no one in eu does business with Switzerland. OMG anon, i didn't know staying out of EU stops international business
>>1105827
This.
>>1105830
>fucks us over constantly
How? If by that you mean that they don't do everything exactly how our government of the day would like them to, what a fucking surprise. We're only 60 million out of 400 million or so.
>France letting illegals through Calais since forever
Leaving the EU won't change that a bit, possibly make it even worse.
>extremely loose laws around letting people into England in general (we want anyone that comes here to speak English and work, but we can't enforce that)
Pretty much every single EU citizen that comes to the UK speaks English and works. It's also worth noting that we're one of the largest exporters of people to the EU - there are about 1.8 million Brits living in Europe (3.7 million expats worldwide, leaving us as one of the largest emigrant nations as a proportion of population on earth).
>>1105841
As a final point, the economic benefits of being in Europe are the main argument for staying in. There's no way the likes of Ford, Nissan, HSBC or Google will keep their European headquarters in the UK if we're not in the EU.
>>1105800
Do you actually work and live in London? Because I do, and I can tell you most of the Eastern Europeans are unskilled labour that only crowds London and drives the house prices up. The swarms from Asia and Africa are only going to get segregated and make London even more intolerable to live.
>>1105877
If you think all HQs will just up end leave to a continental country where they will have to resort to hiring under-qualified staff solely because they speak decent English, you are wrong. The only country who could sort of, barely accommodate it is the Netherlands.
>>1105839
This. Some people just don't understand that you can't sacrifice everything for the sake of creating more and more wealth.
Out, at the risk of being told to go back to /pol/ I don't like the precedent of Merkel threatening countries with sanctions for refusing to do something they were explicitly told they would not be doing in the Dublin Agreement
>>1105877
>There's no way the likes of Ford, Nissan, HSBC or Google will keep their European headquarters in the UK if we're not in the Euro.
Where have we heard this before?
>>1105821
No there won't. There's no incentive for either party to add purely punitive tariffs. Big companies won't stand for it.
>>1105854
I wouldn't get your hopes up if I were you, Tomasz. When we leave, we're gone for good.
>>1106173
>add purely punitive tariffs
Who's talking about adding anything? A non-EU UK would simply be treated like any non-EU trade partner. UK would remove the free-trade agreements. You don't want them removed? Oh, well, maybe you shouldn't leave EU. How about freedom of movement? Oh, that's right, UK citizens now would need a visa to live and work in the EU.
It's like you want all the advantages of staying in the EU without being a EU member. It doesn't work that way.
>>1106190
Lol, as if Brits are dying to move to Europe. Last time I checked, Europeans are fighting to come to London.
Simplifying the EU to trade agreements and free travel is retarded, btw. Look at the big picture and the forced attempts to turn us all onto a copy of Germany, disregarding local cultures, preferences, and even economic capabilities. Europe is just not ready to be melted in one homogeneous mass, with added millions if marginalized foreign elements as a dead weight.
Enjoy your trade agreements, but tell your sister to stay home after 7pm.
>>1106190
Do Swiss citizens need work visas to be employed in the EU? What about Norwegians or Icelandic citizens?
New free-trade agreements will be negotiated. There is absolutely no incentive to be gained from not having some form of bilateral agreement; in fact, big business will push hard on it from the word "go".
>>1105795
so you want to stay in an organisation that previously told Scotland they'd have to re-apply to join if they exercised their democratic right to self determination and left the UK? You'd also be forced to adopt the Euro in that instance...
makes no sense - want independence from London but are happy to be cucked by Brussels even after they stuck the middle finger up in the previous referendum.
>>1105757
am an outer
while it is risky economically and GBP will inevitably take a hit due to uncertainly I think we're better off long term negotiating our own trade deals, getting back control of agricultural and fishery policies, maintaining sovereignty over our borders/immigration etc..
>muh immigrants
I thought /biz/ would be actually intelligent but I guess its just watered down /pol/ edgy 20years old "investors"
>>1106216
Not everything is about money.
Europe and the current pinnacle of civilization for a reason - we have been through A LOT of shit, dark ages, ages of enlightenment, each country has had its own path out of wars, poverty, fighting to preserve its identity under oppression and occupation (sometimes centuries of it).
My ancestors have been spilling blood for this continent for 1300 years, a large portion of it fending off asian hordes.
When I tell you those "immigrants" are not ready to live in Europe, you can take it to the bank. Islam froze their civilisation development and they are still 1500 years behind us.
>>1106216
its much more than that... currently if we wanted to protect say the British steel industry from the Chinese flooding the market we can't do anything - tariffs are controlled by the EU... you can't react to stuff that directly impacts your own economy... instead you're ruled by a half arsed committee that doesn't necessarily act in your national interests.
No reason why we can't have immigrants who want to work come here on a visa - would be good to keep out the various Romanians/Bulgarians who've not come here to work, it would be good to restrict the NHS to people who've started making contributions to national insurance.
We're a net importer of EU goods - they'll still want to trade with us regardless... but we can also strike independent trade deals with commonwealth nations, The US, with Asian countries, African countries (who are currently screwed over by EU agricultural policies/protectionism)
>>1105757
>get away from all the extra taxation and all the regulations on shit.
The EU reduces taxation and regulation as part of creating a single market. We would pay more in tax if we left because of tariffs.
OP, I want to leave the EU because it's fucking evil. Look at what they do developing countries. Look at they did to Greece. They destroy the lives of millions of people.
>>1105757
Is there anywhere to get information for both sides. A non-baised opinion just facts. I feel like I'm in the middle and have no idea what's good or bad
>>1106228
>My ancestors have been spilling blood for this continent for 1300 years, a large portion of it fending off asian hordes.
>When I tell you those "immigrants" are not ready to live in Europe, you can take it to the bank. Islam froze their civilisation development and they are still 1500 years behind us.
I can't believe there are actually people who think like this. Having some sort of adversarial attitude based on historic wars might be cool in a computer game but in real life you just sound like a sad, sad loser.
Grow up.
>>1106248
How progressive of you. Nice projecting and ad hominem, too.
Present your IN arguments or leave, Ahmed (see, I can project too).
>>1106259
I want out of the European Union as I already stated. I was mocking you for actually believing that your part of some never ending war between Europeans and non-Europeans and that you are defending the continent or something.
It honestly sounds like you play role playing games and haven't grown up yet.
Out. We'll thrive inside and outside the EU.
Overall, its a question of democracy.
>>1106248
I was highlighting the cultural and civilisational clash that exists because of historical facts, you seem to read whatever you want in it.
>>1105795
>>1105797
There is no "yes" and "no" in this referendum
It's either "remain" or "leave". Pic related is what the Electoral Commission recommended, and the government has said they will indeed use this.
>>1105843
Eurofag here, not sure that Britain does that much business with Europe to start with they seem to be much more focused with dealing with the US and Canada on trade, sure they may import from the EU but theyll just start doing more business with the USA. Don't think it will hurt them much in that sense.
What it could create is a big social problem with illegal immigration or past status immigrants who come from.the EU or have families over. Also where will the new immigrants come from since they don't want none. Starting to sound a lo t like American style politics of xenophobia towards immigrants and not thinking of consequences of shooting yourself in the foot.
>>1106212
That was rubbish, the EU never actually said it. The EU has always tried to expand, it will never turn away a willing member, especially a net contributor which Scotland would be.
As for the second point, once Scotland is out of the UK, we can then get out of the EU. That's the whole point of independence, it becomes our decision.
So to answer op, I'll be voting the opposite of what England votes. At the moment, that looks like in. Once Scotland is independent I will campaign to leave the EU as they were utter cunts to Scotland during our referendum and they can go fuck themselves.
>>1106517
point is you'd have to reapply to join, that would take time - you wouldn't have necessarily still been members of the EU if you'd left the UK
if you reapply to join then as a new member you'd have to accept the Euro, you'd have to accept being part of the schengen agreement and waive passport control between yourselves and the continent... this in turn would likely mean there would have to be border controls between England and Scotland
>>1105800
>I don't mind European immigrants
>they're predominantly hard-working
>integrate extremely well
>European immigrants
>integrating
You're extremely deluded. I live in London, I agree with>>1106152 they're all doing first job level work, they have no actual skills and don't really move up or develop save for a few who are chicks that get into HR. They are utterly useless and have just pissed a lot of people off who have arrived at working age.
I agree That the EU courts have given some nice things, the EU has gave quite a few nice things, its not all bad. However the cons outweigh the pros.
>>1106228
I don't understand this argument for leaving. If immigrants from Eastern Europe were the real problem I'd see it your way but the pakis and indians are coming because you let them in, it has nothing to do with the EU. Most of this thread seems to blame EE for being nothing but unskilled labor while conveniently ignoring the brain drain from those countries that benefit you. You're closer to continental Europe than you think since they also might blame some EE migrants while conveniently cover up all the crimes committed by subhuman brown people. It's like you know they're the biggest problem but you're too spineless to say it so you latch on to the next big thing.
British delusion is strong even in this thread. Nothing new, Brits have been like this ever since I can remember.
>we are the best most powerful country in Europe!
>Europe needs us, we don't need them, everything bad comes from Europe!
Look at that British supremacist in this thread for example, all he can do is regurgitate talking points that politicians make, dumbed down for their audience. When asked about specifics, he can't name a single one.
>>1106920
One of my arguments for leaving (and not even the main one) is that the UK is already a shithole, full of people without skills and not integrating well, being a massive drain on infrastructure, public money, and generally being detrimental to good society by littering, being aggressive, and acting as if they own the place, i.e jungle law.
So we don't need any more, we need to tone it down and start letting in only skilled and educated people (from any country) evaluating them through rigorous visa processes.
And to clarify, I am actually EE, moved to the UK some years ago because my husband is English. I am not the stereotype because I am actually educated and well-paid, but the only other EEs I see are cleaners fighting for work.
>>1106999
>I am actually EE, moved to the UK some years ago because my husband is English.
We don't need some Eastern European whore telling us what's good for the UK.
Feel free to fuck off back to Poland or wherever you're from.
>>1106577
They keep wages low in various unskilled jobs, but I live in London too, have employed and worked with loads of European migrants, they've all been good at their jobs. Fundamentally, too, they come from relatively secular liberal societies. A generation or two and the only thing that will let you know that someone's grandparents were Polish will be their surname. The same can't be said for third world immigrants. The main problem groups in London are the multi-generational poor who the Labour party keeps in their social housing like pets, mainly white British, black, and muslim. Get rid of them and we'd see some real improvements.
>>1107040
More paki immigration would only help if, as I said before, it's educated people.
Outside London jobless pakies are just loitering around in groups looking for people to harass and exert dominance in a most primitive way.
>>1105757
Leave.
It is the only logical choice if you believe in freedom and democracy.
The European Commission is an unelected bureaucracy stuffed full of socialists.
After Brexit, Britain will return to its position of strength - as the free market, capitalist bastards at the edge of Europe
>>1105795
But that's how democracy works, you scottish fuck. If you vote X, and 5 people vote Y, Y happens no matter how much you bitch.
There are not enough people in scotland to make a proper vote, and yet you've got so many constituencies due to gerrymandering under Labour.
There's also the small fact that if you leave the UK, the Barnett Formula stops. Your healthcare is de-funded, and your benefits stop.
>>1105827
>They'd lose direct access to the markets of the largest economy block in the world.
> USA
> China
> India
> Middle east
No, they're not in the EU. The EU is going broke, and they keep complaining about not wanting our shit anyway.
Well, we'll see how much their crap sells here when we ditch their protectionism
>>1106214
This. The north sea fishing grounds will be ours. Spanish and french boats NOTALLOWED. Hahaha
>>1107140
Hoots mon they're scottish waters there'll be no sassenach ships sailing them under king alex
>>1107136
Why are Brits so completely delusional? You can't seriously believe that UK alone on its own will become more powerful than the much larger EU?
>>1107174
>UK alone on its own will become more powerful than the much larger EU
He didn't say anything like that.
>the UK is a net contributor to the EU an pays in far more than it gets out
>the UK parliament doesn't have the final say over its own laws
>even if every single UK European parliament representative voted against an issue, they would be a total minority compared to all other member states
>the EU is intent on expanding into countries auch as Turkey
>the UK cannot control its EU border for immigration
>the EU common economic policies have hurt British industries and areas of the economy
The EU is wonderful for developing economies; it's essentially a mechanism to spread investment from the wealthy to those that could do with it so that the entire bloc as a whole is better off - but the UK is the 5th largest global economy by most metrics, and it has one of the world's largest and most influential financial centres.
The EU is a great trading ally and partner, but the UK is a member at the cost of sovereingty, open-door immigration to an entire continent and economic polocies that are often harmful to our national econony.
>>1107238
Brits can't seriously do anything but copypasta politician talking points. Then again, maybe EU would be better off without UK. UK has been pushing through its own laws into EU to damage everyone else. They have provided much retardation into the EU that we could do without.
>>1107258
>'politician talking points'
>serious reasons as to why UK membership of the EU is flawed and negative
I don't understand the point of your post if you won't even acknowledge any of the issues that the UK has as a member.
>>1107238
Here here.
>>1106197
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5cd640f6-9025-11e3-a776-00144feab7de.html#axzz411WxImRP
There are around 2 million UK citizens living permanently in Europe. No huge net flood of Europeans into UK, contrary to whatever source you used for your claims (I'm guessing it was your ass).
>forced attempts to turn us all onto a copy of Germany, disregarding local cultures
That interferes with the UK's vision to become a caliphate, right? You bend over backwards to welcome muslim immigrants. That's only going to increase if you leave EU.
>>1106201
Sure, you re-negotiate the trade agreements. And in the end, you'll realize you're pretty much back to where you started. EU member in all but name.
