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TOR: Judge says he's too incompetent to do his job, thinks it's an adequate defense.


So there was yet another fishing expedition to stifle free speech and a judge just used technological incompetence as a defense.

>Judge William Downing, who spoke about some of the underlying issues. "When we get into things like this," he said, "anonymizing stuff, that’s well over my head technologically, then it becomes very murky and hazy."

It's a series of tubes!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cZC67wXUTs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtOoQFa5ug8

>As was the case with the Stingrays," he said, "law enforcement didn’t adequately describe the nature of the search in the request

>ACLU of Washington Legislative Director Shankar Narayan said there should be a high bar for suspicion in cases like this one. SPD should have included relevant information about the Tor node in its warrant request for the judge, he said, and sending in six officers to run forensics on the computers was excessive.

>Robinson questions whether police deliberately delayed checking the IP address against the public list of Tor nodes in order to avoid sharing exculpatory information with the judge. He believes a sound investigation would have checked the IP address as soon as the tip came in. "Why spoil a perfectly good warrant with facts?" he asked.

>The warrant says the porn was uploaded to an encrypted web address on 4chan—the destination for the material after it passed through a Tor exit relay.

http://www.thestranger.com/slog/2016/04/08/23914735/judge-who-authorized-police-search-of-seattle-privacy-activists-wasnt-told-they-operate-tor-network

>"They wasted their time, they frightened us, they cost us money, and they violated our constitutional rights," said Robinson. "And it was all needless... This kind of pointless intimidation of Tor operators just hurts the Tor network."

>>679204605
Everything's boring there or dead

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>>679204917

That's not stopping the fishing expeditions though!

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>>679204917
>Everything's boring there or dead

periodically, bait threads from spooks appear here to entice people to go there

>>679204605

parazite

>>679206109

fitting

im sure the FBI has the best list of coolest onion sites. Why dont you ask them? Its not like TOR is actually anonymous. People who think TOR is anonymous make me laugh and fall asleep easily every night.

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>>679207677

sure...

>>679208306
hahahaha. good luck /b/ro

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>>679208446

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>>679208446
yeah

>>679208306
Onion Routing still uses TCP/IP. TCP/IP was implemented so long ago and was never meant to be an anonymous protocol period. If the FBI wanted to find you it can.

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>>679208446
yeaa

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>>679208993
>so long ago

>thinks that there was privacy in the past

skunksworkedp2cg.onion (list of links)
gjobqjj7wyczbqie.onion (deep web browser)

If I was the NSA the first place I would want to snoop out was people who were using TOR. A simple DNS hack with a clone site for downloading TOR with malware would be EASY! You can get around it if you are smarter than the NSA but I have a feeling most people who use TOR isnt exactly super intelligent.

don't mind the 14 year old edgelords on here. browsing the hidden services isn't illegal (there are Youtubers who make channels for that very purpose).

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>>679209827
>browsing the hidden services isn't illegal

Yes it is, just "unofficially".

>>679209827
using TOR is not illegal. True.
people who use TOR usually use it to find illegal shit or for illegal purposes like buying drugs. Not saying there isnt legit sites using onion routing...but cmon fags....really.

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>>679210137
>using TOR is not legal. True

fixed

>>679210102
The safest place to host shady shit would be in a country that has no influence from the US, UK or other 1st world countries. I cant imagine people hosting illegal shit here in the US. Safe for a bit maybe...but for how long?

>>679210137
you have to actually do something illegal to worry then.....
>Like I said, the kids on here may shit their diapers but bro there is nothing to worry about.

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>>679210370

Or maybe people just want to be able to browse anonymously?

Scary concept for authoritarians, of course.

That's why there is the big campaign to label anonymous browsing CRIMINAL

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>>679210495
>you have to actually do something illegal to worry then.....

Nope. You need to follow the news. You can start with the first response to the OP

>>679210803
what? "everything is boring there and dead"? I agree.

>>679210495
Id definitely worry the FBI/NSA would be looking at you closely for using TOR for any reason illegal or not. Who is a mother teresa looking on TOR??? Most people I know that use TOR arent exactly upstanding citizens.

>>679211062
Well, i don't know who you know but most ppl I know that use TOR are just tourist who've heard about the deep web and are curious

>>679210662
TOR is not as anonymous as you believe. Ask knowledgeable peeps. Using TOR just puts a cross hair on you. I used TOR for years to browse anon but just realized its a stupid concept. The internet will never be anonymous until new protocols are implemented.

>>679207677
>TOR

hahaha

>>679205596
why would niggers want people to go on tor?

>>679211258
same. they use it innocently but they themselves dont live innocent lifestyles. I know drug dealers (dont deal on TOR tho) that use TOR. Thats a cross hair on them they do not need!

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>>679211062
>Most people I know that use TOR arent exactly upstanding citizens.
People on the Internet do bad things.

This means all people on the Internet are likely to be bad.

Congratulations. You have failed logic.

>>679211424
The reason it isn't very anonymous is because the U.S. government are running most of the exit nodes. That's why they target ppl who have exit nodes; they want to run them all. For the uninitiated, you can intercept information at exit nodes.

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>>679211618
>why would niggers want people to go on tor?

Publicity campaign. Spooks need funding. Government convinces citizenry that the benign watchful eye that cracks all encryption and makes online anonymity impossible is necessary to SAVE THE CHILDREN

>>679211656
most people dont raise suspicion by using a protocol that is synonymous with illegal activity.

>>679210102
No it's not. Illegal things are illegal. Using a browser is not illegal.

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>>679211894

Criminals use guns to kill people.

Therefore, if you own or buy a gun you are likely to be a criminal.

Criminals are usually male. Therefore, if you are a man you are likely to be a criminal.

>>679212025
what he is saying is that our govt. doesnt like the idea of anon browsing. It isnt illegal sure....but....

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>>679212025

Tell that to the people who have been put in a van for six hours while their stuff is combed through, copied, and hacked.

>>679212166
and you can be sure that if you own a registered gun you are on a list...

>>679208993
Yeah, its basically security through obfuscation. It's a fucking cunt going through all of those connections to trace it back to you though, so if you're using a public network, on a live system, and spoofing your mac address you're for all intents and purposes untraceable. (though technicaly possible)

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>>679212172
>It isnt illegal sure....but....
officially

bdpuqvsqmphctrcs dot onion

>>679212280
And who might that be? Source? List of names of these people?

Sounds like you're just pulling shit from your ass

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>>679212493

>>679212280
those are ppl with exit nodes, rookie! not browsers

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>>679212536

It would kill you to read the first fucking response to the op's post here.

>>679212383
wow. how secure is your live boot? you sure you didnt download it through a clone site via a DNS hack? are you checking the integrity of your system b4 using? Do people know how to do such? Its not as simple as using Kleo to check integrity you know.

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>>679212616
>those are ppl with exit nodes, rookie! not browsers
Your red herring is quite shapely

>>679212882
refute it then, edgy

>>679212712
>Everything's boring there or dead
Whelp, you sure convinced me with those hot opinions.

lets not forget DNS leakage. Even an authentic TAILS was leaking DNS info for the longest time.

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>>679212536
Not him, but maybe remove your head from your ass once in awhile.

tl;dr - Police claimed child porn, got warrants on tons of nodes across the country.

http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2016/04/04/472992023/when-a-dark-web-volunteer-gets-raided-by-the-police


http://www.thestranger.com/slog/2016/04/08/23914735/judge-who-authorized-police-search-of-seattle-privacy-activists-wasnt-told-they-operate-tor-network

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/canadian-librarians-must-be-ready-to-fight-the-feds-on-running-a-tor-node-western-library-freedom-project

pic related, citation given.

>>679213233
O fuck do you five year olds know how to read? OP wants to browse not set up an exit node.

>>679213233
>Using a browser is not illegal
None of the sources provided refute this claim.

>>679208993
Right that's why they took years to find Ross Ulbricht and only found him because he was an idiot who left evidence. Nobody has ever been caught by breaking Tor retard

>>679213500
Surely nobody could carry infiltrative tapping software on a usb stick and install it from the exit node compromising it. That only happens in countries where the cops can ride roughshod over the population with fallacious warrants.

>>679213546
He asked for citation about people being detained. Citation given.

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>>679213001
>posts red herring
>tells someone to refute it

>>679213704
your a fuckin moron and not worth wasting my time on lmfao

>>679211062
Edward Snowden uses Tor, and that guy is the most upstanding citizen I can think of

>>679213848
oh you can't? okay, i understand.

>>679211868
What does that have to do with anything? Running an exit node doesn't tell you anything about where the traffic came from, only where it's going. And if you're dumb enough to let yourself be identified based on that information then Tor wouldn't help you anyway

>>679213704
>Nobody has ever been caught by breaking Tor retard

Depends on how you define breaking.

http://www.wired.com/2013/09/freedom-hosting-fbi/

>>679213845
>He asked for citation about people being detained.
Nah mate. I asked for the sources of people who had been detained for using a browser.

A little thing called 'context' and another called 'reading comprehension'

You seem to have just jumped in to defend your bum chum without reading all the replies.

See>>679212025

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>>679214027
I can because your type is not rare Internet fauna

>>679213704
TOP KEK!
Yeah the authorities never get smarter. Thats why its still cool to leave your jizz at the site of a rape. No one can crack the code of DNA. Curious why you think TOR is secure? Any of your own thoughts or do you just regurgitate shit you read like everyone else?

>>679212774
That's why TAILS has a public key verification method for its downloadable ISO's

>>679214119
>I asked for the sources of people who had been detained for using a browser.

From the context I thought you were asking about his specific example you replied to. No need to get upset.

>>679214159
>>679213910
No, I've just personally done the research. The only viable method of breaking Tor is to coincidentally control multiple relays along the same path and using packet analysis, which is totally unfeasible on the real network because there are too many relays. It's not impossible but it's never happened

>>679214285
HAHAHAHA! yeah.....but verifying it properly is a task most dummies arent up to. Again its a little more involved than comparing keys. Are you saying there is no way to forge keys?!?!

>>679214159
This is a fucking retarded argument. Whether or not they can break the encryption years from now is irrelevant, you don't leave traces like you do with DNA

i2p or fuck off

>>679214603
uhhhh....yeah you kind of do. Again...learn the ins and outs of the TCP/IP protocol. Traces abound if they are willing to put the work in.

>>679214489
...do you know how public key encryption works?

>>679214469
HAHAHAHA see
>>679214087
You fucking knob jockey

>>679211424
Vpns anonymous?

>>679214715
I'm plenty familiar with TCP/IP protocol. If the FBI owned every single relay, then yes, you're correct. But they don't, so your argument is invalid

Nothing is completely secure. You use a smartphone, there's a risk. Period.

Tor is pretty safe though.

>>679214716
yusss i do! You need to to use multiple PCs on multiple IP addresses with multiple OSs to make sure they key you are comparing to was not compromised by the simple but no one seems to understand DNS hack. The government has been known to do this before. Its not that secretive. Keys are good....but make sure the key you use is good. Even going through all the work listed above you have no way of knowing unless you personally know the person who created the software and he personally gives you the correct key. You fucking noobs. You dont understand how deep the rabbit hole can go.

>>679214742
Is the only response you can put is yourself laughing in all caps to somehow display your superiority or something? You need to learn the difference between technically possibly and feasible practicality. I never said Tor was unbreakable, I simply said nobody's ever been caught by breaking it because it's totally unfeasible. So try again

>>679214715
Nothing is 100% anonymous you fucking mongoloid

Of course if the FBI spent thousands breaking Tor and trying to trace you they will do it if you have broken enough serious laws.

The point is that using tor is virtually anonymous.

>>679215199
vir·tu·al·ly
ˈvərCH(əw)əlē/
adverb
1.
nearly; almost.

>>679215106
Okay based on this post you obviously have no idea what public key encryption is. It has absolutely nothing to do with networking. What you're describing sounds more like HTTPS verification, which is a completely different thing. Go learn about public key encryption and then come back and we'll talk

>>679215199
Use tor with a VPN?

>>679215024
>Tor is pretty safe
HAHAHAHA! Don't bullshit me buddy boy

Tor is about as safe as prison rapist on Viagra. Did you even read the thread? The sources that were linked?

They are all boring.

>>679215388
Ok. where do you get your keys from?

The only 100% secure protocol is probably i2p.

topic links 2.0 has all the good shit like mk

>>679215106
Tell me you aren't talking about DNS cache poisoning.

Because that's been dead in the water for more than a decade.

>>679215439
Explain how it's worse than just using Safari on a Mac.

>>679215502
What's mk

>>679215580
that is most definitely not what i am talking about

>>679215323
Correct. What is your point? Are you agreeing with me?

>>679215483
What key are you referring to exactly? If two people are using public key encryption to communicate, there are a total of 4 keys being used for different purposes. If you understand public key encryption then you'll know what I'm talking about give the correct answer

>>679214469
The NSA working with cooperative universities could easily bring up that many entrance/exit nodes. As well as the Chinese. There are estimates that 20 to 40 percent of nodes are compromised

>>679215483
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZcyWhG1ltc

>>679215709
if you think almost is good enough....go ahead. Look at your CP all you want.

>>679215825
im not clicking that link nigga

How about an exit node blacklist effort?

>>679215709
He's trying to zone in on an obvious fact of what you already stated to somehow prove he's winning the argument or something?

>>679215779
China doesn't let their citizens use Tor and do you really believe that they would be sharing all of their intelligence info with us? Would we share it with them? No

>>679215825
Kek

>>679215851
>the statement of somebody who has clearly lost an argument

>>679208306
It is a known fact that the feds made Tor, you are a retard.

>>679215912
How bout this one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRva7z8pvwc

>>679215851
Uh, almost is the best that is currently available friend. Nobody can be 100% anonymous, which was kind of the whole point the post you originally replied to.

>>679216381
You're killing me

>>679216354
Yeah, they also made the Internet. 4chan must be run by the feds!!

anyone has a link for daisys destruction?

>>679216561
Conspiracy ace right here

>>679215851
Good job! You totally destroyed that narrative that nobody was pushing!

Just stop.

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>>679216354
>It is a known fact that the feds made Tor

It was made to be secure.

>>679216671
Www.Facebook.com

>>679216561
>4chan must be run by the feds!!
only in part

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>>679216681
>>679217065
>tfw moot was an undercover agent all along

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>>679211062
This is the rational that strips you of privacy.
Just what if you need to out something that a high law enforcement was doing that is illegal?
We need these right's to maintain order, not to distribute pornography.

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>>679217065
>>679216561
>>679217361

HAHAHAHA! Here sir, you dropped your hat!

>>679217427
good in theory. I totally agree. But still..... What we need and what we are given in this country dont exactly align

well if you want to use tor for legal reasons you can and that should be fine, but you'd likely attract some attention, also tor isn't even claiming to be fully anonymous unless you change a fuck ton of settings if not people can definitely see that you're using tor if not what you're using it for... its not illegal but it looks weird when you try to hide what you're doing... also everyone knows when you're using tor just try and post here from tor and they will tell you that you can't because they know you're using tor... you're better off not using it ever

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>>679216990
>It was made to be secure.

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>>679216990

>>679217970
>it looks weird when you try to hide what you're doing

Exactly. That's why I respect people who fuck at the mall and in grocery stores a lot more than people who do it behind closed doors.

>>679217970
>it looks weird when you try to hide what you're doing

We had no doors on the stalls in the restroom in high school

I did the same thing at my house!

People need to be honest about what's going on in there.

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>OP just wanted some links and the wannabe experts on here made the thread about TOR's security.

>>679218129
true, that's why all ways fuck my girlfriend no matter the circumstance to show that I hide nothing... although its always awkward we go to visit our parents and we just have to ignore them...

>>679218129

That's why I only read stories to my kids in a big glass room at the mall.

Only weird people hide away in their homes, wanting "privacy"

If the kid can't get to sleep because of all the fluorescent light and passing people then you can always use meds.

>>679218129
Nice strawman bro.

>>679217752
That doesn't mean we should just bend over and take in the ass

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>>679218530
nice denial, that lovely river

>>679218350
I do everything in public: eating, sleeping, shitting, wanking to mlp, eating shit, pissing walking, fucking, grave robbing, corpse fucking, etc...

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>>679218530
we got ourselves a rhetoric buff here, fellas

>>679218599
so do something about it instead of being satisfied using a half ass "secure browser"

>>679218645
My grandpa always says this. Gramps is that you? Who the fuck taught you how to use 4chan?

>>679216381
I am so fucking angry they're remaking The Naked Gun films with Ed Helms as Frank Drebin.
It's going to be a comedy abortion.

>>679204605
lel
this was from some dumbass posting CP on 4chan.
i thought 4chan blocked all the exit nodes

and also lel at the people who say the feds don't monitor 4chan constantly

>>679218738
Tor is the best that is available, and is as secure as it gets. Nobody has ever been caught by breaking Tor so it's usability is sustained. As soon as that is no longer the case, all bets are off

>>679213704
google "carnegie mellon tor" you poor dumb bastard

>>679209223
that's exactly his point you nigger

to be honest the internet as a whole isn't that closely moderated because there's far too much content on it...

>>679218802
Are you retarded? 4chan does block all exit nodes from posting, this guy's obviously posting from his own IP just asking for links.

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>>679217752
Your country.
Your problem.
Australians on 4chan.
I'm relatively sure that our enforcement is purely focused in illegal content/activity's, than subversive activity.

>>679218924
Nothing about that experiment invalidates anything I said. I'll repeat, nobody has ever been caught using Tor, I never said it wasn't possible. But it's totally unfeasible to use that attack on the real Tor network, and even the people who designed the attack admitted that was the case. Learn to read you thick fuck

>>679218920
do you want to be there when it is no longer the case? I do like any normal citizen and steal laptops, connect them to public APs outside my area code using TOR on live boot, use for 30 minutes and throw the laptop in a dumpster in the middle of town. Its not too hard to steal a few laptops a day in a busy town.

>>679218645
>>679218717
Maybe instead of spending your time samefagging on a Laotian Claymation discussion board you should learn how to actually argue.

You haven't actually refuted any of his points.

>>679219072

>doesn't know about the giant vacuum complex in Utah and all the money pouring into it to automate everything further

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>>679218920
>Nobody has ever been caught by breaking Tor

except for the people that have been caught by breaking Tor you dumb cunt

CMU proved that for less thant $10,000 USD they could find the originating IP address of anyone on tor.
In fact all their work got supeoned by the FBI and then a month later the busts started happening.

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>>679219242
lol... a swing and a miss "samefag" callout

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>>679219242

>>679219077
the fuck are you babbling about

the guys were raided because they had a tor exit node.
the reason they were raided was because of someguy posting cp on 4chan that originated with the IP address of the tor exit node.

>>679219235
Why the fuck would you need throw away the laptop each time? Does the NSA use energy-to-matter conversion to assemble a tracking bug in your live USB stick that works even when it's turned off?

>>679219343
>citation needed

>>679219592
dont wanna get caught with a stolen laptop during one of my daily stops with the cops because im black.

>>679219077
Not all nodes are known at any one time.
There are privet nodes.

>>679219219
>being this dumb

it fucking worked you idiot.
do a little research besides the "helpful security tips" forum on your favorite pedo board.

>>679219343
No, they designed an attack that would theoretically work but that they even admitted was totally unfeasible on the real Tor network. You think all those drug sites would still be active if it could be easily discovered for 10 grand (aka nothing to the government)? Try again dipshit

>>679219269
computers are shit at moderation, they'd miss tons and pick up random shit... I used to do a lot programming and stuff, I understand they can do much more complex things but computers still lack the ability to infer and to differentiate between say a joke about internet crime and real internet crime or coded/encrypted internet crime... even advanced AI developed by 'alphabet' or google is only like 80% accurate

>>679219856
most Onion drug sites are located outside the US dumbfuck.

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>>679219856

>has never heard of profiling

>has never heard of assembling dossiers/folders for future use

>>679219656
https://motherboard.vice.com/read/carnegie-mellon-university-attacked-tor-was-subpoenaed-by-feds

is the first link i found using google.
there are much more in depth articles out there, just dig a little

>>679219541
By all means, go on Tor and try to post on 4chan right now. We'll be waiting

>>679219972
These have nothing to do with breaking Tor but nice strawman

>>679219856
no they didn't you dumb fuck
the did the research and actually used it and harvested a shit-ton of IP addresses.

which the FEDS supeoned.
which was right before the arrests started last year

i know its too much to ask to actually read before you start spouting your retarded bullshit but at least try a little.

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>>679219856
>they even admitted
kek

>>679219934
Yes, that's the ONLY reason those sites are operational! Otherwise there wouldn't be any. Retard

>>679220224
<insert "not sure if you are a retard or agreeing with me" meme>

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what is a secure way to browse the Internet then? Also how is downloading candy doll models illegal in America?

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>>679220189

>>679220198
The fact that they were able to acquire a bunch of IP addresses that used Tor means literally nothing. Anybody who controls a decent amount of entry relays can do the same thing. This about tracking an entire path from start to finish to find a specific person

>>679220001
have you even bothered to read the goddamn article, cunt?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/matthickey/2016/03/31/couple-endures-early-morning-seattle-police-raid-for-hosting-tor-server-4chan-involved/#3e481be4170c

...According to a spokesman for the SPD, the detectives were acting based on a tip to the NCMEC from the notorious website 4chan which had relayed to the center the IP address of a user that had uploaded a video of a woman abusing a child aged about 2 or 3 years-old. The IP address likely corresponded to the couple’s Internet connection and action was taken.

>>679220322
dont use TCP to transfer info

>>679220431
>This about tracking an entire path from start to finish to find a specific person

which is what CMU did faggot
learn to read

>>679220432
So? This is about 4chan handing over the IP of an exit node that somebody used. Doesn't have much to do with accessing hidden services since exit nodes aren't even used

>>679220322
dont use UDP either. Both have no built in measure to provide security or confidentiality.

>>679220573
How many times do I have to tell you this before you get it through your fucking skull? It's theoretically possible but practically unfeasible, and the people at CMU knew this and said so, so why don't YOU learn to read before continuing to spout the same shit tier argument over and over

>>679220835
your wasting your time on these anons. They don't even understand the basics of how TOR works.
>some more links OP:7g5bqm7htspqauum.onion, 3fyb44wdhnd2ghh1.onion

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>>679221055
>tells us we need to believe what they said
>provides no proof for why we should

>>679221055
and how many times to i have to keep bitch slapping your ignorant ass down evertime you start spouting lies?

http://fusion.net/story/238742/tor-carnegie-mellon-attack/

learn to google pedo

>>679221269
>They don't even understand the basics of how TOR works
>how TOR works
>TOR

oh the irony

>>679221300
You gotta be joking me. To prove that you're right about Tor being hackable you cite an attack that was designed by CMU and then criticize me for illustrating another piece of your own citation. I mean for fuck's sake

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>>679221766
you don't even know who you're talking to

>>679221542
>http://fusion.net/story/238742/tor-carnegie-mellon-attack/

>Tor, or The Onion Router, is a browser that lets people use the Internet without being tracked and access hidden sites,
>Tor
>is a browser
>browser

Not even the anon you're arguing with, but m8, this bitch doesn't shit about what she's talking about.

Fucking dropped.

>>679221766
there is more than one vuln. for TOR
if you are a target you are fucked.
if you hit a bad exit, you are fucked.
if you are a retard.....
you are fucked.

>>679221542
Don't get me wrong, your ability to use a search engine is impressive, but when I've already pointed out why that attack doesn't support your argument, continuing to send me links of that same attack over and over doesn't do much to help your argument. Nice try though

>>679208886
>>679208744
>>679208996
samefag
>inb4 inspect elemented bs image

>>679222057
>if you hit a bad exit, you are fucked
Thank you for conclusively proving you have absolutely no clue how Tor works. Well done, I rest my case

My friend is ordering "acid tabs" from alphabay. do yas think its gunna be real acid or wut?

>https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2013/10/how_the_nsa_att.html

▶>>679222048
this
The authorities can make educated guess on who's using TOR, as they have said themselves [can't remember source] by when you log in vs when a certain ip address shows up.
>As I said, these anons don't understand how tor works

>>679222148
let me show you how to samefag (duplicate reply)

>>679222148
let me show you how to samefag (duplicate reply)

>>679222148
let me show you how to samefag (duplicate reply)

>http://fortune.com/2015/07/29/tor-vulnerability/
also an intro to how tor works....

>>679222148
let me show you how to samefag (duplicate reply)

>>679222148
let me show you how to samefag (duplicate reply)

>>679222644
dubs checked

>>679222414
Yes, it's the attack designed by CMU to use packet analysis at different relays to confirm that the relays are on the same path. However, most people just read some Forbes article and see that and think "zomgg, Tor's broken!!!111one" instead of realizing that technical possibility doesn't necessarily translate to applicable feasibility.

>>679222621
I really wish people would stop citing popular newspaper and magazine sites as reliable sources for technical learning. Most of the journalists who write those articles barely have an understanding themselves, let alone the ability to communicate it effectively

>>679223025
i think he said "intro"

>>679221542
Also, straight from the article you link

>“There’s an argument that this attack hurts all of the bad users of Tor so it’s a good thing,” said Mathewson. “But this was not a targeted attack going after criminals. This was broad. They were injecting their signals into as much hidden services traffic as they could without determining whether it was legal or illegal.”

So basically, what CMU did was not a targeted, concentrated attack on individual users.

It was totally random and basically just harvested IP without regard to what or who it was from.

>>679222880
>applicable feasibility
We are talking about governmental snooping right?

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>>679222148

>>679223111
So? That's like saying it's okay to get an introductory understanding of physics by consulting the local middle school art teacher

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>>679223225
>still is trying to convince newbs to use TOR because it's secure

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CMU's tactic (not familiar) is surely only one way to do things. I still think a DNS attack is the easiest way to fool people into thinking they are browsing anonymously. If you dont know how to PROPERLY check the integrity of what you use then good luck!

>>679223514
No, I'm just another anon who popped into the thread.

>>679223366
Those comments were made by the attack designers with large scale entities in mind, so yes

>>679223449
i suppose, if she has a grasp on the basic concept.
it creates a want to research more about the topic.

>>679223514
I think you're thinking of me, not the anon who just posted. Still at it with the strawmans I can see. Do you actually have a technically legitimate argument or have you been reduced to nothing but meme quoting and shitposting?

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>>679223514
The more people that use the network the more secure it becomes.

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>>679223917

>>679223748
Then I will have to respectfully disagree with you. Art teachers should not be teaching introductory physics

>>679209546
"a feeling most people who use TOR isnt exactly super intelligent."

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>>679224272
so rude to law enforcement

>>679216561
Well, for sure this thread is!

this thread is dead, like ted the fed.

TOR is secure. Only tinfoil hat types think otherwise.

If it weren't secure then there would be a lot of news articles about it and no one would use it.

>>679218384
>not knowing OP is the FBI

>>679225076
>there would be a lot of news articles about it
reasons why tor users get caught

>>679225367
you're saying there's a media blackout?

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>>679225089

>>679215771

Please stop being such a dimwit.

You've been assuming the whole time that the key distribution system (whatever that actually is) has not itself been compromised. That system goes over the network, as a rule, so network security is a practical part of crypto security.

Here's how I'd approach this if I were a moderately funded opponent against, say, TAILS. First, go and subvert the hosting site for software distribution. I'm not going to fuck with it very much, just enough against specific targets. (This will extend the lifetime of my exploit.) Whenever I see a connection come in from a specific target, I modify the response to change the cryptographic material, hash function values, signatures, whatever, but particularly the public key used for verification. If I'm up against an ordinary target, they'll just assume that someone else has already verified the distribution, and won't bother running verification themselves.

Now there's no software system I'm aware of that does peer-to-peer integrity checking to prevent this kind of attack, at least not automatically as a regular operation. It's one of many infrastructure failings that crypto has had for decades.

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>>679204684
>As was the case with the Stingrays
holy shit they use stingrays aka dirt boxes for listening on tor, that explain some. i'm sure they can hijack a node and sniff there.

>>679217361
>moot was an undercover agent all along

Nah. He got suborned only after he got into CP, then had to cooperate

>>679204605
boring tor

>>679227514
thank you

>>679227514
That's fine and all, but this is all under the assumption that the person being targeted is a retard. You are correct in the fact that retards would be easier to fool than non-retards. But TAILS has had a distinct public key for a very long time, and verifying that through a multitude of third party sites isn't difficult. So yes, it is possible that the person or entity acting as a TAILS imposter could also post a bullshit public key, but debunking such a key would be easy as shit. Or are they gonna track down every single site that has ever talked about TAILS and spoof all of these as well? Are they going to create and entire fake Internet just so they can convince you it's a different public key? Yet again we have another argument that fails to take into account the concept of feasibility. Nobody ever said retards couldn't be fooled, they often can. But anybody who has a brain will take the proper precautions, and those who do will find that public key encryption is satisfactory

>>679228696
>retard who needed somebody else to make an argument for him because he was incapable of doing it himself

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>>679229054
>anybody who has a brain will take the proper precautions

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>>679210102
This man Doesn't know how the legal system works at all

>>679229463
What people fail to do to secure themselves is on them. I've been specifically speaking of things that are strictly beyond the control of the individual. This is not one of them.

Are there any onions whom show you men fucking female animals? Im curious...

>>679229793
>This man Doesn't know how the legal system works at all
You mean the "legal" system

where massive harassment is easy because judges will rubber stamp every warrant request

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>>679215439
I remember when I was this petty...

Oh wait I never was kek...

>>679229054

Seriously, please stop being a dimwit.

I used TAILS as an example, not as an actually practical attack against a specific opponent. The better-known the distribution, the less likely you can simulate the world, changing a key, to the view of a specific target. Besides the much better target is the key verification software. Change that on a target's device and you're golden.

>retard
>anybody who has a brain

If you write software, please stop. Holding scorn for your users is the easiest way to make crap code.

The biggest problems are not intelligence. They are laziness, primarily, and lack of technical education, secondarily. There's no automatic verification system around, and the ones that are there are not exactly user-friendly to use. You also need to have some understanding about how the verification regime works, which tends to limit the number of people who are able to do it at all.

>using tor
>2016

partyvansiren.wav

>>679225963
Well let's think about this for a second. If I were LEA and had a surefire way to break TOR, I would keep it a secret. That way, I can slowly build up a database of everyone using it for naughty things, and arrest the big fish using parallel construction. If I let the world know about it, the exploit would be quickly patched.

>>679212166
The term you are looking for is "More likely" as likely is a synonym for usually or mostly. Most gun owners are not criminals and most male are not criminals.

>>679230628
this guy...
might know something

>>679230628
Please see >>679229965
You keep suggesting that I somehow made the statement it was difficult to fool people, or that people who were lazy and lacked technical education were safe. I never said any of these things. In fact, I am a developer and I'm well aware that most of my focus has to do with creating a usable and reliable experience for the end-user. And the average person should rely on this usability and reliability when they use the software, it is what creates a good product. But we are not speaking of a consumer product here, we are speaking of the technical details of avoiding detection against the most technologically advanced adversaries in the world. All of the normal requirements are therefore voided, and simply expecting the program to work perfectly no matter how technically illiterate you are is no longer applicable. It is my opinion that nobody should ever use Tor without having a thorough understand of its functionality.

By the way, I actually have to thank you for replying, you are the first poster who has shown they actually have the technical understanding of what we're discussing

>>679229175
thank you

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>>679230192
This man is also unfamiliar with the intricacy of the legal system

>>679231992
>It is my opinion that nobody should ever use Tor without having a thorough understand of its functionality.

"The best is the enemy of the good".

The version for cryptography: "The paranoid is the enemy of the secure."

You've got an attitude I've held contempt against for more than twenty years. (Yes, original cypherpunk here.) You don't have to be perfect. You don't have to write perfect software, nor do you have to use perfect software. You should strive to write good software, knowing that it takes huge effort to get close to perfect. You should use good software, knowing that it might fail.

In particular, I really despise the attitude that say "you don't share my paranoia, and you don't have time to be l33t, therefore don't even play". The elitism there is just rancid.

The practical state of affairs is that Tor is secure in practice for almost everybody. I'm not claiming categorical certainty; that's not really possible. But don't go around telling people not to use something that can help them just because they don't understand it.

Sure, some will make stupid mistakes and leak information and give themselves away, leading idiots to claim "Tor is broken". Whatever.

>I am a developer and I'm well aware that most of my focus has to do with creating a usable and reliable experience for the end-user.

Then please shut up with the bullshit and say something constructive. Tor has serious and legitimate usability issues. Acknowledging these is perfectly valid, but don't go overboard.

Is pink meth any good and is it safe?

>>679234001
If you're fine with the slim possibility of the NSA watching everything you do, then by all means use TOR without understanding how it works. If that's the case though, you may as well use Internet Explorer.

>>679234697
Internet Explorer???? Damn /b/ro. Im the hated anti TOR poster in this thread but lets not say something we cant take back now.

>>679234001
You seem to quite confused about what my stance is. My entire argument in this thread has been against people who are spouting off about how Tor is totally useless and that the FBI can track anybody who uses it down without a second though.
>The practical state of affairs is that Tor is secure in practice for almost everybody
This is LITERALLY what I've been saying the entire thread. Everybody kept citing the CMU attack as evidence that it's apparently broken, and I simply corrected them saying that while it was theoretically possible it was also technically unfeasible, as admitted by the designers of the attack. Who exactly are you arguing with here? I'm not going overboard with anybody, nor am I trying to elitist towards anybody. Obviously the point is to write good software, and I've said time and time again that Tor is not perfect and that it isn't perfect but it's the best that we have. Clearly we are on the same page from a technical standpoint so I fail to understand why you are being such a dick towards me. Did you read the reply comment chain?

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>>679235446

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>>679235446

>>679235446
>Did you read the reply comment chain?

>the completely anonymous comment chain

>>679235446
who the fuck said what you are claiming? "Track you down without a second though [sic]"
pshhh. get a clue

>>679236166
>implying it wasn't totally obvious who was responding to who

>>679236259
Are you serious? Read the fucking thread, there's been plenty of people here thinking Tor is a big joke and the FBI can crack it anytime they want