>>694543913

Nope. Because Jew.

>>694543913
Jew
REEE OUT

>>694544900
>>694544994
The anti-Jew meme died with WW2 guys, come off it. Jews are just white people.

>>694545136
Nice try shlomo

>>694545364
My ancestors were bongs, friendo.

Every day, every fucking day I crave for the dame of my dreams. I want to feel her loving embrace, her warm lips pressed against mine, and her gorgeous curvature. Her breasts are that of a ripe fruit, succulent and radiant under the rays of the glistening sun. Whenever she walks by, her perfume fills the air; beneath that camouflage lies a sweet womanly scent that compliments her choice of fragrance. Her pussy... So tempting... Just when I thought my urge to bone couldn't grow anymore; I heard it. A sound of beauty. A sound of tranquility. I heard the shlicking of her wet cunt from the next apartment over, her moans rattled through my erect cock; but, that wasn't what got me horny. It was what she masturbated to. It took me so long to find it. Every night for the past two weeks, she watched this video.,.

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooDcstIm6Qc

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>>694545136
JIDF GET OUT

Despite her being a jew..

>"Although Stein was raised in a Reform Jewish household, she now considers herself agnostic."

Also, she is critcal towards Israel: https://thepeaceresource.wordpress.com/2015/08/29/dr-jill-stein-on-israel-palestine-and-the-middle-east/


I'd never vote for a woman though.

>>694543913
What state are you in?

>>694547246
Washington, why?

Voting for Jill too now

Old lady boobs. Will vote.

#FeeltheJohnson

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>>694547385
Because if you were in a swing state you decision would matter considerably more. However since you are in a reliably Democratic state it really doesn't. Vote Trump dude.

Also do research on the down-ballot races and ballot initiatives. The people you send to congress and the state house is crucially important and not a matter to be decided by the letter by someone's name or the sense you get about about a proposed amendment by reading the little summary blurb on the ballot.

VoteLibertarian Gary Johnson. The rest are fucknuts.

If you're going to vote third party, you might as well just stay home - your vote is absolutely fucking useless. It's Trump or Hillary. Voting for Gary or Jill might make you feel good on the inside, but you're wasting your time.

>>694548273
Yeah I have some pretty cool candidates on the ballot for other offices. Why would I vote for Trump, though?

>>694548590
*tips fedora*

>>694544900
>>694544994
You guys know she wants to defund American aid to Israel and recognize Palestine, right?

>>694549527
There's more to life than foreign policy.
She's against nuclear energy and that's a no go

>>694548963
If a bunch of us Berners vote for Jill, enough to get her at least 5% of popular vote, the Greens would qualify for federal campaign funding going forward. I don't think for one second that she will ever be elected president but there are other steps toward longer term goals.

>>694549172
Because he has an actual chance at winning. Look, if you pin down a Jill supporter or even her herself they will admit that her candidacy is not even remotely about her becoming president, it's about setting the precedent for her party to become more viable in the future. Winning a single state or garnering disloyal electors for a political party to etch a very marginal victory is not worth risking the fate of our nation on. If you're voting for the president you need to be adult enough to recognize the choice is between Clinton and Trump.

Trump has a rational and coherent immigration policy. Clinton however will throw the doors open and legalize millions of new Democrat voters and we will never have the chance again to change the direction of our country. Clinton will also sell us to the Chinese, whereas Trump's trade policies are restrictive and will allow us to rebuild manufacturing.

Where do you disagree with Trump?

>>694550028
He's running as a Republican which supports the duopoly which is the problem.
Also he has no successful businesses.

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>>694548590
Johnson is a fucknut. You realize is basically a Republican right?

>>694549172
So you don't base your decision based on policy, but rather some perceived "duopoly." Dude, this isn't fantasy land, we're talking about about the president of the United fucking States. Get your head out of the sand.

>>694550362
>has no succesfull businesses
Good lord anon, are you even from america ?

>>694550594
It's not perceived, it's the current political climate. There isn't enough competition in the political market and everyone running for president is a right-moderate.
Do you support monopolies in commerce?

>>694550594
That wasn't the same fag in those posts

>>694550621
And the shilling begins

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>>694550861
The two-party system is part and parcel to the American republic. That you don't know this shows the extend of your knowledge of history. In order to have an effective multi-party democracy we would need some pretty hefty constitutional changes. Look you need to work within the parties as they exist.

But I'm wasting my time. This is your first election and you got swept up in your god candidate and you see no alternative but radical electoral changes which are impossible. Go on I guess, waste your vote. At least you aren't voting for Clinton and this will ease pressure on Trump. Glad you millennials are so hard-headed you'd implicitly vote for the reactionary nationalist.

>Do you support monopolies in commerce?
No.

>>694550872
I was aware of this.

Listen to this show OP

https://soundcloud.com/fashthenation

>>694551456
Lol nice b8

>>694551456
Nice shilling

>>694551718
Bait? Oh good grief give me a break. Watch documentaries about past American election. You'll notice some trends.

>>694551456
Do you poo in the loo?

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>>694551760
Nice low effort fucking post dipshit

>>694551781
I don't think you poo in the loo

>>694551718
>>694551760
>>694551801
It's not that I *want* there to be a 2 party system, I just recognize that's what America will always have. I don't bark at the fence all day, there is actual work that needs to be done. Stop being an idealistic teenager.

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>>694544994
>>694544900
OY VEY THIS IS ANUDAH SHOAH

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Sorry I'm already throwing my vote away on this guy

>>694551456
So if there were only two banks, that would be ok? Because that's essentially the same as having two political parties.
How about you read something about the rest of the world before you throw your vote away for a dem or repub. There isn't another world power with a two party system, it's literally worse than a single party.

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>>694550362
>no successful businesses
Holy shit are you 100% retarded

>>694552128
That's my guy
>>694551945
So throw your vote away to the current broken system and see if you actually get any real work done. More likely everything stays the same, and the common people get pushed further into the dirt.
You seem to be ok with spending your tax dollars on corporate welfare, so vote for that.

>>694552144
>So if there were only two banks, that would be ok? Because that's essentially the same as having two political parties.
Except it isn't you fucking imbecile.

Again, what do you think is going to create a parliamentary system? God you fucking moron, it would have to pass through CONGRESS, At least think this out.

And jesus dear god you are stupid if you think a single party is better.

>>694552240
Name one

9/10

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>>694547650
>>694548590
>>694552374

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9I0qaqYDbQ

>>694552525
>open bordres

Stein is good. Even though I voted Bernie in the primary I always planned to vote Green in the general because I'm in a hard blue state. Any party that receives 5% of the votes in the general gets special benefits for the next election. Besides, voting blue in a hard blue state or red in a red state is a waste, it's basically voting for your own irrelevance. Ideally every state should be up for grabs.

I'm considering Johnson because he has a good chance of getting 5% and maybe even the 15% polling number for the debate stage. But the way he wiggles and weaves when asked to state any of his beliefs is really hard to get over. But hey I guess it's working for him.

TBH though as candidates they really shouldn't be looked at as "who would make the better president." I'm a lifelong Green member and not even I'm so disillusion to think any third party has a real chance this time around. It's basically just setting up for the next election so they can help 3rd party candidates win in more local races.

>>694552374
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKQy5SyzUi0

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>>694552397
No parliament, just funkadellic

>>694552525
>voting for an anti-Net Neutrality dipshit

Suck more corporate cock.

>>694552785
He still believes in the free market. Probably 15 just like you.

>>694552603
I think you mean offering work visas and taxing a huge workforce that currently is undocumented and untaxed

>>694552895
>free market
>corporations should get free reign

You a jew by any chance?

>>694552397
Who said anything about a parliament what level autismo are you I'm talking about having a reasonable spread of political affiliations like the congress we have actually be represented by an organized political party system.
It's the same as having two banks because two parties have all the money. Businesses would have to decide their political affiliations and not just donate to dem and repub and that's the problem.
#endduopoly

>>694552988
How is that a good idea? I don't want that to happen at all.

>>694553055
What?

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This is now a Gary Johnson thread
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qCS6PbtbGmA

Bury the opponent i see what you did there nice shilling.

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>>694553060
>what level autismo

>>694553068
Well it is happening and building a wall won't work. Ever heard the expression show mean a ten foot wall and I'll show you an 11 foot ladder? Yeah literally that. Plus the wall will cost a TON of money when Johnson's plan will start making money immediately. Also it will drop prices for those companies that would like to hire immigrants for shit jobs at low pay but aren't right now because it's illegal which will translate to lower product cost for you. You want to bring manufacturing back to America? Honestly this is the only practical means. Remember during the industrial revolution how we allowed all those Irishmen to build our skyscrapers and all those chinamen to build our railroads? Yeah we could have another golden age of America through cheap foreign labor.

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>>694544994
did you say get your jewelry out?

>>694543913
The only option to take down hillary is based trump. grow a pair, faggot

>>694553055
>free market
>consumers also get free reign

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>>694553945

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>>694552639
>>694553152
>>694553771

>>694553945
But trumps a literal jew.

I encourage everyone here to take the questionnaire on I side with to see how your political believes align with the candidates.

https://www.isidewith.com/

>>694543913
Her or Gary Johnson. Hillary and Trump suck.

>>694553771
>my economic panacea is lowering wages
Have you even taken econ 101?
Building a wall will definitely work. And yes I've hear that truism; but that's all it is, a truism. Tell me, if walls don't work then why do so many nations have them?

Oh lookie here there's even a nice list of them! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_barrier#List_of_current_barriers

To restore American industry we need more restrictive trade policies. There's no reason for us to basically voluntary discard our tariff autonomy. America, Britain, Japan, etc. all industrialized under conditions of protectionist trade. Sorry pall but free trade is bunk economics, much like the rest of your world view.

We don't NEED Mexican immigrants. And you should check out our unemployment rate faggot, there are plenty of Americans who would love work right now. Your corporate low-wage labor solution doesn't cut it. Working Americans haven't seen a pay raise in a decade and it's largely do to the political success of your own libertarian policies.

We need to close that border and return to the trade policies which BUILT this country.

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>>694554802

>>694554001
neo-feudalism

>>694552895
>free market
>supposed libertarian supports authoritarian coporist policy
>nice try cuck
Do you have any idea what net neutrality even is ?

>>694554996
If you don't support it you have no idea what you are talking about. Fuck off.

>>694550594
>>>694548590
>Johnson is a fucknut. You realize is basically a Republican right?

How do you figure? He's more socially-liberal than anyone in the GOP, he wants to shrink the military and not a hawk, he's pro-civil liberties and wants to end the war on drugs.

Speaking of which, perhaps you need to stop taking so many.

She sounds like a fucking Jew to me

>>694555073
I'm assuming English is not your 1st language seeing how illiterate you are

>>694551456
That's bullshit. Continue being a sheep and buying into this crap.

Both parties want to increase the size and power of the federal government at the expense of individual liberty.

But sure, keep buying into that system...you're why we have shitty choices and a all-powerful government.

>>694555689
Nice argument against net neutralitty moron.

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>>694554568
>>694554568
>>694554568

>>694554895
I've been a libertarian since 1990. I voted for Johnson in 2012 and he has my vote this time.

>>694555721
"I'm 14" - the post

>>694555505
That's what I mean moron. He comes out of that crop of socially liberal Republican governors of the nineties. He is doggedly right wing on economics.

>Speaking of which, perhaps you need to stop taking so many.
Dude your banter is fucking low bar. I do no drugs and you sound pathetic trying to say things like that.

https://www.nsfwcorp.com/dispatch/gary-johnson-swindle/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsJ_blq9AJs

>>694554816
>Building a wall will definitely work
C'mon you can't possibly believe that there have been so many incidents of illegal border crossing of the Korean DMZ, the most heavily guarded border in the world, that there is a wikipedia page solely for the incursions listed by decade no less. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_border_incidents_involving_North_Korea
Countries have them for the same reason we have the TSA even though it does literally nothing for security, it is an illusion. https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150602/05474131176/study-tsas-security-theater-troupes-missed-95-smuggled-weapons-explosives.shtml
>To restore American industry we need more restrictive trade policies.
or we could lower domestic products expense which will lower the cost. We could even start exporting goods, like we used to do when america was great.
>Americans who would love work right now
No, those americans that you are thinking of are enjoying their welfare too much to want to work. also the unemployment rate is at a 7 year low right now.
>We don't NEED Mexican immigrants
then why are they being employed when they business owner could lose their business for hiring them?
>Working Americans haven't seen a pay raise
actually the MHI is at a 5 year high
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States#Recent_trends

>>694555731
Here's the libertarian philosophy regarding net neutrality.

If corporations (like Comcast, Verizon, etc) hadn't lobbied for and successfully used regulation as a hammer to stifle competition, we'd actually have real competition in the marketplace. Because there is no real competition, net neutrality is a necessary evil.

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>>694555505

>>694556000
You say that because you don't have a legitimate response...despite your trips.

>absolutely zero chance I'd ever vote for Shilldawg

enjoy President Trump

>>694556275
Omg, he's Fiscally-conservative so he must be GOP.

The GOP is not free market. They they like to pick winners and losers in the marketplace just as much as Democrats.

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>>694555942
>Gary Johnson's #2
>hasn't bankrupted any companies
>has held public office
>has climbed the highest peak on each continent
>doesn't paint himself orange

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>>694555990

>>694556285
Yes there are incidents of illegal crossings. They are by far the exception. You cannot deny walls are effective.

>govenrment security professionals smuggled bombs past the TSA
So? It isn't theater to have a wall, those countries erected them to thwart real and imminent border crossings. You cannot just wish that truth away.

>or we could lower domestic products expense which will lower the cost. We could even start exporting goods, like we used to do when america was great.
This is total blather. You have no idea what you are talking about. Oh and btw this is the current failed policy sweet cakes.

>No, those americans that you are thinking of are enjoying their welfare too much to want to work. also the unemployment rate is at a 7 year low right now.
Hey FUCK you seriously. Your fellow American is in pain and you have th audacity to just brush them away as welfare queens. This is truly sick.

>then why are they being employed when they business owner could lose their business for hiring them?
Because businesses are exploiting them and screwing over their fellow American.

Your final link literally proves my point on pay.

>>694556352
Even if you have a bullshit and wrong way of getting there, at least you support it.

>>694556445
No I just really think you're 14.

>>694556482
Hillary is as crooked as they come. Anyone that believes she didn't get away with breaking the law with her stupid email server is a complete moron.

It's one thing to lean left and say, "She's the only choice and better than the alternative" than to say she isn't crooked as fuck. That's just intellectually dishonest.

>>694556588
What's wrong with picking winners and losers? Should we have feeding toughs everywhere so as not to pick the car as a winner over the horse and buggy? Get a grip.

Also the more radical in the GOP you go the more free market it is. The free market, coincidentally, doesn't exist also.

Johnson is a fucking former Republican governor.

>>694543913
I would agree but the reality is that it's going to end up being one of the two (Trump or Hillery). If they were both equally OK then I would say yes I'd be on-board with Jill. The problem is to me that we cannot afford to let Hillery get in. So I will be going with the lesser of the evils and vote trump. I know if the majority of the populace were to start actually considering independents (Libertarians) things would be different. I normally vote Libertarian but this round there is too much at stake if Hillery gets in.

>>694556820
Eliminating the regulations that were written by the big telecoms to stifle competition is bullshit? Please tell me how we benefit from the lack of competition we have now?

>>694556633
I took the quiz really quickly.

>voting #2
Why would someone want to do that....


>muh trump went bankrupt meme

>johnson climbed a big mountain and isn't orange

Pathetic

>>694557064
If the telecoms had their way there would be even less competition. Saying that there is regulatory capture is not a valid argument against regulating industry.

voted for her last election

I certainly don't agree with her about everything but she's certainly much better than the republicans or dems

>>694557009
The market should decide that...not the goverment.

Bail out banks and automakers for their poor business decisions? Fuck that.

Write regulations to favor big businesses? Nope.

The free market is very Darwinistic when it's not interfered with by the government. Competition spurs innovation and competition for business keeps costs down.

>>694557185
Did I say eliminate all regulation?

You do realize that a majority of regulations written today have nothing to do with consumer/public safety and are written by lobbyists specifically to stifle competition.

>>694557044
What if Gary Johnson is in striking distance?

>>694557352
Oh so the market should decide whether we ride on horse buggies or drive cars? Oh that's funny because it's the GOVERNMENT that builds roads and ensures that automobiles are safe to even drive and that they don't exhaust toxic fucking fumes or have poor efficiency.

How exactly is the "market" going to make sure all the above go as needed?

No, supporting regulation does not mean allowing industry to become the regulator. I am squarely against that as much as anyone.

>Competition spurs innovation and competition for business keeps costs down.
Says who?

>>694543913
Idk. Some say she's only there for money for medicinal corporations. Haven't done any research yet.

>>694557563
>Did I say eliminate all regulation?
Who fucking knows dude. Libertarians sort of just make up standards ad hoch as to where they fairyland philosophy applies.

>You do realize that a majority of regulations written today have nothing to do with consumer/public safety and are written by lobbyists specifically to stifle competition.

And who told you that kitten? Regardless, I'm not supporting bad regulations made by the very industries being regulated.

Name a few of those regulations.

>>694557639
Yes, the market already made that choice some 100 years ago.

I didn't say eliminate all regulations...so stop using strawman in your arguments.

>>694556775
>You cannot deny walls are effective.
Yes, yes I can. Have you heard of the tunnels under our current border? Some are miles long. How you seen the makeshift submarines used to smuggle cocaine? Have you seen the rafts people are willing to float on to get out of Cuba?
None of that will be stopped by a "bigger wall" and furthermore people will go through much more than a high wall to cross a border.
>This is total blather.
so you have no argument against mine then, ok.
>Hey FUCK you seriously.
Seriously, you have no argument.
prove to me that these welfare queens couldn't go work picking fruit, or maybe they are but just getting paid under the table like their illegal colleagues and still collecting welfare.
also again our unemployment rate is pretty good in relation to other countries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_unemployment_rate
>businesses are exploiting them
No, just no. unless you would prefer to let them become citizens and collect welfare you can not say that them making the decision to leave their home nation,illegally and dangerously cross a border, and take a huge pay raise in the US is exploitation.
>screwing over their fellow American.
This is true though, they should be paying their due taxes.

>>694543913
>Jill seems fairly based.

She is not a bad person, and I will give her credit for that.

However, I will never vote for the Green Party because the absolute foundation of their party is bullshit. They claim to represent the fight against climate change and the degradation of the environment, but they're staunchly against nuclear power, GMOs, and other science-based approaches to energy and technology that have the potential to save lives and reduce our dependency on petroleum and coal.

The Democratic party might not be as hard-line on environmental policies, but they're also not turning around and shitting all over science and pandering to the anti-vaxxer crowd. For that they have infinite more respect from me.

Maybe I'm basing too much of my opinion on only a few facets of the Green Party, but let's be honest here, that's pretty much all the party talks about.

>>694557812
>Yes, the market already made that choice some 100 years ago.
Tell me more!

And it's not a fucking stawman... I'm only going by what you say but since you were in a corner you just made up some new criterion.

Which regulations would you keep, which would you discard?

>>694557009
>Johnson is a fucking former Republican governor.
and Donald is a former Democrat.

>>694557627
>>694557044
http://rare.us/story/new-poll-has-good-news-for-gary-johnson-as-he-pulls-even-with-trump-among-minorities/

>>694557639
>>694557639
>>>694557352 (You)
>>Competition spurs innovation and competition for business keeps costs down.
>Says who?

I'm guessing you never had an econ class...or is that not in the Communist Manifesto.

Example the Internet which has been mostly unregulated.

>>694557085
>>muh trump went bankrupt meme
just saying I would rather vote for a SUCCESSFUL CEO

>>694557639
>Says who?

Not him, but it's a fact of economics that competition drives prices down. It's true regardless of what school you subscribe to.

>>694543913

She is a Jew.

>>694557846
All this time and you come up with tunnels? come on dude at least bring your A game...


>Have you seen the rafts people are willing to float on to get out of Cuba?
It's absolutely tragic. So many die because of the false lure created by our immigration policy with cuba. It needs to be terminated.

>so you have no argument against mine then, ok.
No just annoyed by your syllogism-based economics

>more bashing of the unemployed
Under normal conditions they are employed. It has zero to do with welfare. Companies should not be able to pay people under the table at lower wages. simple.

>No, just no. unless you would prefer to let them become citizens and collect welfare you can not say that them making the decision to leave their home nation,illegally and dangerously cross a border, and take a huge pay raise in the US is exploitation.
Yes they are exploiting them. And the illegal immigrants should be deported.

>>694557639
>it's the GOVERNMENT that builds roads
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUx7qZTxc4I

>>694557980
Which is not important. It is however important for Johnson since he is pedaling a line that he has somehting new to offer while it's really just repackaged right wing econ.

>>694557914
Start with the Telecommunications Act of 1996.

>>694558101
>Example the Internet which has been mostly unregulated.
At least do some cursory research because this is unequivocally false.

>>694558187
Vote trump then.

MAGA

>>694558369
>All this time and you come up with tunnels? come on dude at least bring your A game...

Not him (again), but walls haven't been an effective system of border control for centuries. Unless we build the wall like 30+ feet high (driving the cost up a clean several-hundred billion dollars), all the coyotes have to do is drive a reasonably-large truck up to the wall and set down a ladder on the other side.

But oh wait, we're gonna "make Mexico pay for it", yes?

>>694558281
don't just tell me it's unquestionable doctrine.

show me some evidence

>>694557639
>it's the GOVERNMENT that builds roads and ensures that automobiles are safe to even drive and that they don't exhaust toxic fucking fumes or have poor efficiency.
I would rather drive my truck on dirt if it meant no taxes for roads, no laws on equipment, and no traffic tickets. hell most of the roads around here are dirt and the brides are collapsing anyway but I still get taxed just as much.

>>694557914
Also look at states like Michigan which won't let Tesla sell there because they don't have dealerships. Please tell me how that benefits consumers.

>>694557790
>Libertarians sort of just make up standards ad hoch
dems/reps/greens/averagecitizens don't? it's shifting sands and very complicated

>>694558626
>show me some evidence

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_equilibrium

>>694558538
Compared to other industries?

I'm not talking about ISPs, I'm talking about the companies like google, Facebook, etc.

>>694558610
Walls are def effective but it has been argued into the ground.

I don't think they necesarily have to. I mean they could. We can tax remittances, charge import taxes, etc.

>>694558651
Thanks to your local libertarian economic platform

>>694558538
Nobody is telling 4chan how to run their site. Other than obviously illegal content, please tell me how websites are heavily regulated by the goverment and anti-competitive.

>>694558662
Telsa also benefits strongly from other regulations. Again I'm not defending all regulation. You can be rational and evaluate things on a case by case level rather than assuming one apple spoils the bunch.

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Jilldawg > Shilldawg

>>694550028
>Trump has a rational and coherent immigration policy.

>>694558756
More thinking along the lines of no single libertarian will agree with another libertarian on what libertarianism means or how it applies or whether a program is libertarian or not. It's all just nuance on nuance.

>>694558817
>Walls are def effective but it has been argued into the ground.

I haven't kept up with the argument, but I can think of at least a dozen different ways to get over a wall with 12 Mexicans. It's not even my career, either.

>I don't think they necesarily have to. I mean they could. We can tax remittances, charge import taxes, etc.

Let's ignore the fact that all of those things you listed will hurt us more than Mexico. How is that supposed to force Mexico to the bargaining table when the sum total of remittances and foreign aid to Mexico is /less/ than the estimated cost of the wall? "Give us billions of dollars, or we'll stop giving you millions of dollars".

>>694558757
>markets are totally efficient
something may work as a general rule but this does not make it unquesitonable law

she'll never be based as this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jaOnvEbVX4

>>694558806
And they are not regulated? Give me a break. They could definitely use more howeer. you are fine with them trampling over privacy and monopolizing?

>>694558651
>I would rather drive my truck on dirt
>2016
>being this american

>>694558949
Did I say they are heavily regulated and anti-competitive? No.

Regulations exist however. And more would be beneficial.

Try hosting some copyright MP3s or cp and see how far you go. Also there are many privacy regulations among others.

>>694559195
>something may work as a general rule but this does not make it unquesitonable law

It's not an 'unquestionable law', but barring fluctuations in the market, free competition always trends towards equilibrium.

I'm not a libertarian, and I don't believe that it's a reasonable economic system for large nations. That being said, it's pretty much economic fact that the best way to cut prices on goods and services is by opening the market to competition.

>>694559027
You can make the same argument about Democrats and Republicans.

I'll distill it down for you into one simple statement.

The Constitution was written to preserve and defend individual liberty. There's a reason the People have rights and the government is granted powers in the Constitution. You can't give the government more power without reducing individual liberty.

When libertarians disagree, it's on how much govermental powers should be scaled back.

>>694559022
Shutting the borders is the most rational system at this point

>>694543913
Sorry to hear you got seduced by the Pied Piper of politics - who led all the young and naive right to Shillary.

I say that sympathetically, so sad to watch for so many months people's sincere hopes being perverted for DNC's corporate gain. Too bad so many followers wanted to believe in their fantasies over reality.

So, to answer your question, Stein's positions seem good, but since she can't win that's irrelevant. In a different year I might vote for her as part of developing a multi-party system, but unless we stop Clinton - very clearly a murderous psychopath in the service of Wall St. - there may not be a future US in which that multi-party system could develop.

Trump has his own problems, but at least he speaks openly about corruption and MIC, and unlike Clinton for Trump the inter-branch checks and balances would work.

Jill Stein is even more of a jew than Bernie Sanders, which is surprising in how that's even possible.

>>694559259
I watched this entire video hoping the guy would steal someone's camera, do a karate move, then jump on the back of the bike and drive off.

All I got was this lousy thread.

>>>/pol/

>>694559040
>>694559040
It's actually a sufficient amount of money when you factor the different revenue sources. Tax remittances, zero foreign aid, high import tariff

>>694559284
People have a choice. You don't have to use Facebook or Google. Yes, I'm fine with them using my data because I accept that in return for free use of their services, they will use my demographic data to make money.

I am NOT fine with the government using any of my data without a warrant.

Huge difference there.

>>694559399
I'm getting too many responses. I think the thread of this conversation was lost somewhere. I am against the notion markets do not require regulaiton and interference, not that the price mechanism exits.

>>694558369
>All this time and you come up with tunnels
Yeah I'm actually busy and not just waiting for a response to my anonymous posting from an anonymous user.
Also I didn't just come up with tunnels I was making a point about how borders are circumvented and how they always will be regardless of how high, and expensive, a wall is.
>It's absolutely tragic. So many die because of the false lure created by our immigration policy with cuba. It needs to be terminated.
Actually, it's gotten a lot better since we have loosened travel restrictions.
>No just annoyed by your syllogism-based economics
so then what is your argument?
>Under normal conditions they are employed. It has zero to do with welfare
I don't believe this is true. I think there is a fundamental believe instilled in some communities that the easiest way through life is to have babies and collect welfare. Please prove me wrong.
>Companies should not be able to pay people under the table at lower wages.
They aren't allowed to and face massive penalties if caught and it still happens, same with the immigrants they face death if caught and they still make the journey.
>illegal immigrants should be deported.
This I agree with. Those who break the law should face penalty. I just think we need to change the law and tax a this necessary workforce.

Over all you are mostly attacking me and not my arguments, terrible debating honestly.

>>694559429
Not rational, impossible.

>>694559404
No dude, libertarians are all over the map. There are even libertarians who think the constitution is unconstitutional

>>694555537
>She sounds like a fucking Jew to me

She is, in every sense of the word.

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>implying your vote matters shit to anyone.
>implying the president is the one who makes decisions.

it's all about controlled opposition you american dumb fucks.
you will suffocate on your own shit one day.

>>694559656
>the government using any of my data
What does this even mean? Do you think the gubment is going to take your bitcoins? It's the year of our dark lord Satan, 2016. There is no expectation of privacy. Privacy is for people who have something to hide.

>>694559656
And that you don't recognize Google and Facebook as surveillance branches of government is a huge danger to you - and exactly how they like it.

>>694559766
Not really. But keep throwing out the strawman extremes to denigrate the party.

>>694559656
>bringing up government snooping

Oh you. We're talking about regulation.

Here is a perfectly legimate place for society to collectiely decide that no, you don't need that sort of information to run this type of business. and we decide that we will regulate this industry, choosing not to cower away from doing so for idoelogical dogma.

>>694559766
>the constitution is unconstitutional
My sides have finally arrived in orbit around Jupiter.

>>694559887
Only because the 3rd-party doctrine which is plain wrong.

I consent to letting ABC Web company use my data, I do not consent to the government using it.

>>694559607
>It's actually a sufficient amount of money when you factor the different revenue sources. Tax remittances, zero foreign aid, high import tariff

Subtracting the import tariffs from the equation, it's definitely not sufficient.

But here's the thing though, we signed this agreement with Mexico called NAFTA that bi-laterally removed barriers on agricultural imports. As a result, the agricultural economies of at least a dozen US states rely on exporting crops to Mexico.

Sure, we could tell Mexico, "Pay for our wall or we'll shoot both you and ourselves". But because of the way that checks and balances work, the President cannot decide to completely rework our trade policy with another nation, and Congress would have to approve a bill to do so. This would not happen, as members of Congress represent many of these states that would go bankrupt as a result of Trump's 'wall bargaining'.

So yes, if we completely destroyed our trade with Mexico, it would be possible to cause them enough economic damage that paying for a wall might seem appealing. However, our government isn't going to come even close to letting that happen.

>>694559926
And I would disagree with you.

Don't like it, don't use it...or pay to use their service.

>>694560060
Like any part of that system gives a fuck about anyone's consent.

>>694559887
>surveillance branches of government
Jesus Christ, dude. Just take a step back and think about what you just said. What's going to be a more effective method of finding information? Using an agency designed specifically to gather intelligence, i.e. the CIA, or having to parse through billions of posts about cats and reddit memes?

>>694559690
>I am against the notion markets do not require regulaiton and interference, not that the price mechanism exits.

Most sane people are for controlled amounts of government regulation. In my mind, economic decisions are always somewhere in between purely efficient, amoral free competition, and absurdly bureaucratic, fair government regulation.

>>694560060
becuz corporations be gud n de gubbermint is bad!11

>>694559723
>Also I didn't just come up with tunnels I was making a point about how borders are circumvented and how they always will be regardless of how high, and expensive, a wall is.
This doesn't matter though. A wall significantly thwarts illegal migration. It's why borders are so successful in other parts of the world too.

>Actually, it's gotten a lot better since we have loosened travel restrictions.
That is good to here but the, I forget what it is called, policy of allowing people to stay if they reach soil but get sent back if they are intercepted was totally retarded and caused a lot of suffering.. Better to not promose citizenship for reaching our magic soil.

>so then what is your argument?
protectionist trade

prices will rise domestically but it is worth it

>I don't believe this is true. I think there is a fundamental believe instilled in some communities that the easiest way through life is to have babies and collect welfare. Please prove me wrong.
I think welfare should be available but needs reforms. But to imply people are unemployed just to get welfare now is absurd based on trends.

>>694559728
Simple, just don't permit migrants. Solved.

>>694559910
"libertarian" is not limited to the LP

Just look on wikipedia for the wide breadth of libertarian ideology

>>694560060
The government doesn't want your data. ABC Web company is hoping to sell you something, that's why your demographic data is valuable to them. The government does not want to sell you things. They don't care.

>>694559963
Yeah, peeps like Lysander Spooner

Also anarcho-capitalists like Rothbard

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>>694543913
Anyone who's not voting for Jill Stein.

>>694560397
>It's why borders are so successful in other parts of the world too.

Not him, but I guarantee you're looking at a totally different scenario. Show me an airtight wall somewhere that spans a border around 2,000 miles long.

Great Wall of China doesn't count cause Mongols didn't have modern technology.

>>694558495
Women's right to choose, Ending the fed OK, no farm subsidies, Supports separation of religion and state, Prostitution is safer when legal and regulated, support gay unions, Too many unnecessary laws leads to too many in prison, legalizing drugs cuts crime, Marijuana is safer than alcohol, Public education system needs major reform, Put educational funds in the hands of the people who use it, supports Alternative energy, accepts global warming, Support State Revolving Loan Fund for flexible Clean Water, Focus on prevention and states for Endangered Species, Flights to Cuba ok; trade promotes friendship, No tariffs, no restrictions; but no corporatism, Strong advocate of term limits for governors & Congress, Spying on U.S. citizens dismantles the 4th Amendment,Overturn simplistic, chaotic, reactive military policies, Due process at Guantanamo, Let the PATRIOT Act expire, Abolish the TSA

I could keep going but those don't sound like the repackaged right wing policies to me.

>>694560145
I'd never for a minute say Trump should just go over there and "negotiate" deals out his ass. there needs to be an encompassing plan which takes all this into account. I think a wall should be constructed. The means of paying for it is secondary

>>694560676
>no farm subsidies

how to lose an election 101

>>694560176
You can't just simply say that people should just do without the service. And even if you pay you still get your ass raped by them.

>>694560742
>I think a wall should be constructed. The means of paying for it is secondary

So what I think you're saying is that, we should build a wall, and then worry about the finer details of how to build it after we've already finished it.

That's some seriously airtight logic. Have you considered working as one of Trump's advisors?

>>694560742
hurr durr let's build a wall. giant fucking waste of time and money.

>>694560637
Who said airtight? Not me.

>>694558093
That really doesn't mean shit. There isn't enough minorities to make that big a difference in the over all. Do you know what minority means?

>>694560956
>Who said airtight? Not me.

Fair enough, I'll use your words.

Show me a border wall that significantly thwarts illegal immigration and spans a comparable distance to that of the US-Mexico border.

>>694560676
again with the conflating social with economic policy

>>694558570
Why? Johnson has founded and ran businesses since 1976 and everyone of them has been successful. He was also the son of née Bostow, who worked for the Bureau of Indian Affairs, and Earl W. Johnson, a public school teacher. Not some rich kid who was given 100,000 NY apartments by his daddy. He nor his companies have ever declared bankruptcy.

I think you are familiar with some of the business failings of Donald.

so why would I support a loser like Donald when Johnson always wins?

>>694560272
I said what I did because that's how it works (from direct experience from the gov-mil side).

Stupid to waste resources having to collect data if you can convince people to spend their own time giving it to you, unfiltered, 24x7.

Google and Facebook are global-scale surveillance systems, and that the targets don't know it is why they're so valuable.

>>694560888
No hombre, I'm saying a wall should be built but that the balls in the wind make mexico pay for it ruite is probably not the one the men in suits will agree to. Taxing remittances however can def be a part of the funding.

Just like any other project of the federal govt., it would become part of the budget.

>>694561252
you're a fucking idiot, so we should spend literal assloads of money on a useless wall when we need to be fixing our shit tier infrastructure?

>>694545136
>Jews are just white people.
I bet you think italians, spaniards and the irish are white too.

>>694554160
Because Trump would be on top if he was gay like Johnson

>>694559313
Damn straight ya yankee.

>>694561531
because they are.

>>694561088
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_barrier#List_of_current_barriers

>>694561252
>Taxing remittances however can def be a part of the funding.

It'll also damage our economy. Remittances happen as a natural part of tourism and skilled-worker immigration. Taxing remittances means creating a negative incentive against tourism and skilled immigration, which hurts us. How badly it'll hurt us depends on how harshly you tax the remittances, which in turn determines how much money you can throw towards 'building a wall'.

>I'm saying a wall should be built but that the balls in the wind make mexico pay for it ruite is probably not the one the men in suits will agree to.

The thing is, like, outside of the pipe dreams of Trump and his lackeys, the wall doesn't seem like a practical move for absolutely anyone involved with immigration. Border patrol agents and immigration officers are not coming out in droves in support of the idea, and many point to all of the instances where we've seen people tunnel through or cross over the tops of walls that we've built along populated cities.

It's not like the US government doesn't have enough money to build the wall, but they're not going to agree to fund a project that will not pay off in the long run.

>>694561456
Of course we should be spending on infrastructure, and the wall is part of that

>>694561636
>irishnigger

>>694561531
All of these cultures become white in my opinion when they are fully homogenized into conservative American culture. In my opinion the root of all whiteness is in there. If they want to keep their dumb culture stuff they can stay in shittown, getting destroyed and punching eachothers teeth in.

>>694558866
no actually I live in Florida where the government is split between Dem and Rep and no Libs are in office.

>>694561456
We should spend money on sending you to Sweden to get fucked by Muhammad and his cousins.

>>694561774
nope I'm descended from norse english german scottish and a tiny bit of french.

>>694561820
Yes but the Reps have libertarian economic ideology

>>694558950
>Again I'm not defending all regulation
you're not defending any specific regulation but you think the idea of regulation could be good? ur fucd

>>694561933
And you have a step-son, get over it, dipshit.

>>694559404
this

>>694561887
ahhh so it's the French in you making you a nigger loving cum guzzling cucklord

>>694561657
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_barrier#List_of_current_barriers

Only one finished border on that list is within an order of magnitude of the US-Mexican border length, and it exists to combat drug smuggling and illegal immigration between Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan, two countries that aren't well-known for being a hotspot of either issue. I couldn't find any published statistics suggesting that the border fence was effective either.

So no, there are no comparable examples of other countries succeeding in fixing illegal immigration by covering thousands of miles of their border with a wall.

>>694550028
>Trump has a rational and coherent immigration policy
I'll laugh my ass off as soon as the true numbers surface. Not only is that wall going to cost more than 8 billion just to build it, the billions we'll bleed and likely human rights abuses from the massive deportation will make it a scandal.

>>694562080
nah dude I saw my dads DNA analysis and only one of things on the list said french. It was mostly english and german. two norse.

>>694562080
The English, Norse, and Swedish are bigger faggots than the french. Firstly, Napoleon is a dictator and king to be proud of. The English are shit eaters with decapitations in there streets, the Germans are going to get fucked because of their nazi-shame, and the Norse are already in the hole. The french have hope, after Hebdo and the concert shooting, and bombs, they might get a move on.

>>694562123
>HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSE
>DEPORTING ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS

>>694561686
The costs of illegal immigration dwarf the expenses involved in constructing the wall.

>>694562514
But that's not what I said, faggot. There will be abuses within the deportation, as there has been every single time this kind of shit goes down.

>>694561964
Yeah, like high safety and consumer protection, strong envrionmental protection/efficiency standards, banking regulation, the FDA, the EPA, quite a lot of things

>>694560176
Actually, yes you can. You don't have to use Google or Facebook.

In exchange for your data, yiu get to use their service for free. That is the contract consumers make.

>>694561983
what does this even mean

>>694562794
>The costs of illegal immigration dwarf the expenses involved in constructing the wall.

Remittances from illegal immigrants don't come even close to that sum. You also have to factor in the fact that illegal immigrants do contribute human capital and productive labor to our economy, even though they're technically criminals. Illegal immigration is not cumulatively good for our economy but certain facets of it are definitely beneficial.

>>694562104
Plenty of the walls on that list are functioning in that manner.

>>694562936
I mean more along the lines of their tremendous cost simply being in our society and having to be supported.

Most illegals come without a high school diploma so it's not like they're coming with bound more human capital than native born Americans.

Why should we even allow them in the country. Any job done by an illegal is one that an American unemployed could do.

>>694560397
>A wall significantly thwarts illegal migration
<citation needed>
>policy of allowing people to stay if they reach soil but get sent back if they are intercepted was totally retarded and caused a lot of suffering
yeah that is still the policy but now people can get stuff from people coming to Cuba on planes so it is making Cuba a better place to live and people are less likely to take that dangerous trip because of it. Keep in mind the US did not send any aid or spend any money in Cuba they just loosened regulation involving travel, trade, and american businesses in Cuba.
>prices will rise domestically but it is worth it
That is exactly my point. Product prices would drop that is what I said. Why would it be worth it to have them rise and piss off our allies and prevent development internationally?
>But to imply people are unemployed just to get welfare now is absurd based on trends.
I didn't imply it I clearly stated that some people in The US are raised to think that living their whole life on welfare is OK and that is exactly what these people do. There are people who legitimately need help through a rough patch but most people on government assistance are on for life. Please show me something that proves me wrong.

>>694562936
If the government was really serious about stamping out illegal immigration, they could start by arresting and prosecuting employers of illegal immigrants. But they don't. I wonder why? I think you understand since you brought up the issues of American citizens and companies benefitting from the human capital.

The best solution is to streamline the process for obtaining a green card for those that are employed. Stop with the arbitrary caps. People that are productive and wish to live and work here should be free to do so.

>>694562907
The fucking EPA? Fuck the EPA. Anytime a government agency can dictate the use of shitty gas can standards as well as eliminate OTC bronchial inhalers (and 4 years after the fact, the FDA still has not approved a replacement), the agency has too much power.

I wanted Bernie but of course Clitoris won. So I guess I'm voting for her. Fuck Trump.

>>694563251
>I mean more along the lines of their tremendous cost simply being in our society and having to be supported.

The single biggest social program that exists in our country is social security, and illegal immigrants are not recipients of that program because they lack identification. They also cannot receive welfare, they cannot benefit from federally-subsidized loans, and they can't receive federal educational aid.

The only significant manner of support that they receive is the benefit of working in a country where labor trades for a much higher price-tag. However, the only incentive that businesses have to higher mostly uneducated Mexicans over naturalized citizens is the fact that they're undocumented and can work under the table for below minimum wage.

And considering that, surely the best thing you can do to help secure jobs for established American citizens is to offer the illegal immigrants citizenship so that businesses are bound, by law, to pay them the same price.

>Most illegals come without a high school diploma so it's not like they're coming with bound more human capital than native born Americans.

There's no theoretical limit on how much human capital an economy can support over a reasonable period of time. The whole thing about immigrants 'taking jobs' is ridiculous because, by filling those jobs, they give the capital to produce more jobs.

>>694563043
>Plenty of the walls on that list are functioning in that manner.

They cover smaller borders, with less people on each side, where there isn't one country with a thriving industry based on finding inventive ways to ship people over a border.

The only comparable example I can think of is the Korean DMZ, but again, it's much smaller, and they're facing an actual existential threat from a country with whom they've never really officially stopped warring with. It's understandable that they would pour a ton of money into it, and North Korea covers part of the cost on their side.

>>694559834
>Do you think the gubment is going to take your bitcoins
yes http://dailysignal.com/2015/10/16/why-police-can-legally-seize-your-cash/
>Privacy is for people who have something to hide.
so then you have no problem streaming your entire life on the internet like that real life cam or whatever or even just posting here with your real name or letting everyone you know hear recordings of every conversation you have? How about pictures of your dick, is it cool if I make that your FB profile pic? privacy is a constitutional right. https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/fourth_amendment

>>694563356
Ask the people of Gaza how well walls work.

>That is exactly my point. Product prices would drop that is what I said. Why would it be worth it to have them rise and piss off our allies and prevent development internationally?
Why assume the benefits of international trade liberalization will accrue to us?

Better to have high prices for domestic products while unemployment is tackled and we can be sure we are getting American quality and not relying on the exploitation of Asian and Latin American sweatshops. It's more ethical and will protect domestic markets from foreign competition. No reason to play ball internationally with cars for instance while our native market drains and countries like Korea and Japan but huge caps on imported American cars.

>welfare
My contention is not that there are not people who have a cultural dependence on social serices. This is a bad thing. But rather that increases in social service dependence can be explained by temporary job displacement by cyclical unemployment rather than some random spike in cultural welfare usage.

>>694559834
>There is no expectation of privacy. Privacy is for people who have something to hide.

This is a terrible philosophy. Literally everyone has something to hide, and allowing the government total surveillance allows them to have charges on hand for pretty much anyone in the country. That way, if a political dissident starts making waves on television, they can pull up records of one time when he loaded up 4chan while someone had posted child porn, and then they can arrest and imprison him as a form of easy censorship. Essentially, a society without privacy is one where the executive branch of government is allowed the ability to sidestep the judicial branch of the government and assume complete control. That's really, really bad.

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>>694563677
Doesn't mean they shouldn't exist hombre. We will always need to reform our regulatory bodies and wax and wane their purview. And overreach is perferrable to like not having them at all.

>>694561097
>economic policy
wtf yeah for the most part he is fiscally conservative he says it all the time. that doesn't mean he's just another republican though.

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>>694560745

>>694543913
jews must be gased.

>>694561007
it also says he's polling generally at %12 at 15 he will be in the debates js...

>>694564248
hey man, I think farm subsidies are stupid too. it's just that special interest groups are a political nightmare. you have a fairly large group of people extremely passionate about keeping farm subsidies, and the rest of the country that serves to benefit from removing them but doesn't really care. voicing any opinion against farm subsidies is essentially just agreeing to forfeit a significant percentage of votes.

i'm pretty liberal but I do have significant respect for John McCain for speaking out against farm subsidies while campaigning for president on his 'pork barrel spending' platform. at least the guy stuck to his principles.

>>694563043
literally every single one of those has had a illegal crossing. People escape from super max prisons, they will find a way around your super expensive wall.

>>694561538
nah Johnson would def top trump, he climbs mountains and runs the iron man. Trump eats taco salads and drinks.

>>694563792
As soon as illegal migrants become legal citizens, the benefits they confer to social security will evaporate.

Illegals benefit from being able to send their children to public schools (including the costs of dealing with foreign language accommodation), use public and private medical services, and they still get thousands in annual federal benefits.

The best we can do is not amnesty for these criminal aliens, it's deportation.

They cover smaller borders so, scale them up

>>694561794
>they can stay in shittown, getting destroyed and punching eachothers teeth in.
just like the blacks do

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>>694543913
>but there's absolutely zero chance I'd ever vote for Shilldawg.
then you're an idiot

>>694564150
I never said he was. Rather he is cut from the clothe of economic conservatism. Republican light. He just gives you a side of fag marriage and marijuana with that order of austerity and tax cut.s

>>694564679
Who said walls are imperious?

I need dildo OP

>>694565142
impervious

>>694564911
>As soon as illegal migrants become legal citizens, the benefits they confer to social security will evaporate.

Why do you figure? Remittances are out of the equation at that point because they'd bring their children over. Everyone else in the United States receives these kinds of benefits, and the benefits are funded through the work that they do throughout their lives. Would it be any different with workers coming from Mexico?

>Illegals benefit from being able to send their children to public schools (including the costs of dealing with foreign language accommodation), use public and private medical services, and they still get thousands in annual federal benefits

Public school funding is a valid complaint, but you wouldn't like a system where illegal immigrants are barred from public medical services. It's a huge public health risk to force illegal immigrants (potential carriers of infectious diseases) to go around in society without access to emergency medical services.

>>694564911
Anyway, I've got work in the morning and have to go to sleep. Hope this conversation was informative. Don't put too much stock into Trump actually building a wall.

>>694561933
right but the state isn't controlled by republicans, it's split. So I still get taxed by the dems and it gets put towards snap instead of our crumbling infrastructure like I would pay for if it was in my pocket, which is what the libertarians want.

>>694565235
I mean the notion that illegals are a boon to social security because they pay in yet cannot take out. If they are made citizens they would just be like any other user of this program.

>but you wouldn't like a system where illegal immigrants are barred from public medical services. It's a huge public health risk to force illegal immigrants (potential carriers of infectious diseases) to go around in society without access to emergency medical services.
Well yes I don't want them denied medical service but I do want them expelled from the country.

>>694565350
Alright have a good work.

>>694561873
or send you to saudia arabia so you can fuck a hot 12 yo or rape any woman who's dress like a whore, muslims aren't all bad you know?

>>694565350
What is your field of work btw?

Sorry, but yer so fucking wrong it's not even bait. How fucking retarded can one get and still be able to type that ass babble? Just fuck you

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>>694562907
>osha, the epa, the fda
driving up cost without actually protecting anything. you know the EPA signed off on those oil rigs that couldn't be capped, right? and the FDA has been adding literally toxic poison to the water supply for decades and has allowed gmo into consumer space without labeling(not stating an opinion on whether gmos are dangerous just saying they are not protecting the consumer by forcing labeling), they encourage pesticide use and tax organic products, OSHA is the worst though. ask any construction worker and they will tell you horror stories of nit picking and literal nonsense.
>banking regulation
pic related

>>694565041
Try blaming your party for shoving a career criminal down America's throat as a result of shifty insider political deals.