>>692048949
Strong Theist but not a jesus freak kek.

I only really only hate fuckin mrrepzion athiests n shit. Like seriously that prick does not stop with how much he likes to emphasize how much hes an atheist and makes videos about how to convert to atheism and shit like that. Idk I think hes a douche.

Used to be 1/2 ish, now I'm between 4 and 5.

2

6

>>692049618
same

>>692048949
6

>>692048949
4. you can't prove he doesn't exist, but you can't prove that he does either.

6

>>692048949
I'm the pedant. It's either "Dawkins' Scale" or "The Dawkins Scale".

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>>692049445
He is a douche but it's the idea that you know a truth and someone says otherwise. Imagine is a large population of the world started believing that praying to oranges would make them live longer. And they do it all the time. You're hard pressed in your country to find someone who doesn't. I mean, not only would it be frustrating to you, but it would seem like such a fucking waste. And for what? Because death is scary?

tl;dr
Mr.Repzion is stupid but so is religion

I do not believe in a God, but I respect my family's traditions and values, and I will continue to act as proper catholic if any asks or is watching. I don't really mind it either.

1

>>692050696
Proof?

6

>>692050791
None I could convince you with, but enough for me to know for certain

4, it's just the most logical one

7

6

>>692051257
Found the retard.

I shuffle between 3 and 4.

>>692051397
That makes me a retard, too. I can live with your "assessment".

Anyone saying anything other than 6 is a retard.

6 because though I don't know, the thought of a "god" just doesn't exist in the current theological environment here on Earth.

>>692048949
5, sometimes 4.

>>692048949
I'm agnostic I belive there is a god but he isn't a bearded man in the clouds as well as Jesus Christ being the only humanized savior

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>>692048949
4
Not only do I not know...I try hard not to care either.

>>692051864
so anyone that doesn't think that there is absolutely nothing that created the whole universe and made everything perfectly balanced is a retard?

>>692052216
>perfectly balanced
this is bait, right?

>>692048949
3

>>692048949
De-facto

>>692051397
The minute I see a single bit of evidence for the existence of any gods I will change my mind. Hasn't happened yet.

6

>>692048949
I'm a 6
like any rational, intelligent person

Occasionally 5, but normally 6 when i remember 'god' lets 3 year olds die of incurable diseases or other grim shit happening to totally innocent people.

>>692048949
2

>>692049618
Me too

>>692052387
>Anyone saying anything other than 6 is a retard.
this is bait, right?
so many fucking autistic faggots in this thread

>>692052569
m'lady
*tips fedora*

>>692052732
Not the anon you replied to, but I'll bite. What qualifies the universe as "perfectly balanced?" What does that even mean?

>>692048949

3. its the only smart choice unless youre 17 and edgy.

>>692052216
>>692052387
well there is an undeniable balance in the universe
but it's because things couldn't have existed as they are any other way
any more or less of certain things being present just after the big bang would have resulted in a different universe with different physical laws

4 b/c logic

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>>692052970
>exactly equiprobable
nice logic

>>692052970
LOL. Retard.

>>692052918
for example, how are our bodies functioning so perfectly? who made them that way?
have you ever seen any documentaries about the human body and wondered who the fuck thought of that

7

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>>692053310
undercover theist troll detected

>>692052569
>>692052613

6-7

While ever god is helping sports players to win championships instead of curing sick kids he can go suck a fat one.

>>692052970
/thread

6 but the term "de facto atheist" is misleading, it's actually what a pure skeptic would believe.

>>692052521
That's 6 on the scale retard.

>>692052948
I understand what you're saying, but that only qualifies this particular set of rules. If other factors were in place at the time of the big bang that altered the amounts of certain particles, there is still a possibility of life as we know it or some other form of life. This in no way constitutes a god.

>>692053304
I do wonder who thought of that, but that's not up to a mind. Genetic mutation and the long process of evolution to create the human body makes it what it is. Besides, if it functioned perfectly, there wouldn't be autists in the world.

>>692053449
You never hear, "Jesus made me fumble!"

(Credit: Jeff Stilson)

>>692048949
Somewhere between 3 and 5, depending on the day.

>>692048949
1 cause my belief in god and that he's helping me is the only thing that keeps me from completely losing my will to live.

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3-4

pic unrelated

>>692053795
and what caused the big bang? what was there before it? if there wasn't anything why would something huge like that spontaneously happen?

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I'm a 6.

A non-preachy 6.

>>692053703
Nope, retard, it's a 7 because I know proof will not be forthcoming.

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>>692048949

3 or 4.

Studied philosophy extensively enough to know that both sides have some difficult questions to answer (why is there evil? why is there anything rather than nothing? why is our universe as it is rather than being any of infinite other possibilities most of which intelligent life couldn't exist in? etc.). From a purely rational stance I'd say pure agnosticism (4) is the most logical since as a theist you are forced into believing in an infinite creator (that you can't prove) while as an atheist you are forced into believing in an infinite number of alternate universes (which you also can't prove). I'm inclined towards weak theism simply because its nice to think that there's something more and I'm pretty fucking depressed.

It should be noted though that a more vague theist philosophy like Deism or Pantheism is much more defensible then the popular organized religions.

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7

6 is for pussies

4
I don't think it really matters we all know for certain one day or another

>>692048949
depends on definition of "god". I dont believe in a guy with a grey beard, but i deff fully believe that there are more powerful beings than humans in this reality

So i dont fucking know. Put me down as acidhead

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>>692052521

So... you are a 6 then. Retard.

6 but I don't refer to myself as an atheist.

Just a normal cunt

>>692054333
unless god doesn't exist. in which case you'll never know.

On a scale of 1 to George Carlin, I don't give a fuck.

>>692054228
this
fucking this

7 There's no observation made of the natural world that would even hint at the proposition that a demiurge must exist, let aone a God whose atributes are only defined by social tradition.

Agnostic
I'm inclined to believe in god because I want to. But the probabilities of God being, not being or him being a fingernail are equaly the same

>>692054463
2spooky4me

>>692054101
Great question, I honestly do not know. You do ask something that does get turned around on religion (i.e. "Wut caem b4 da god yu stoopid theist!?"), but we have evidence of the big bang. There are scientists that are testing their hypotheses on the "before big bang", but as of the moment I don't know, and I can admit to that.

>>692054591
found the edgelord

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>>692052521
Have faith brother. These 6 cucks literally make up their beliefs based on what other people think of them. We'll be proven right in the end.

>>692048949
6

>>692048949
1... Not staying in thread no point in responding to me with an argument. Just wanted to let anyone know.

4-5ish. Honestly, you can believe whatever you want to believe just don't throw it in my face

>>692054412
>So... you are a 6 then. Retard.

No, because I know it won't happen. Ergo, 7.

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>>692052918

Not dude who posted that; but the number of constants in the law of physics that have to be a certain way for life to exist is pretty strange.

For example the gravitational constant has no logical reason to be the amount that it is rather than being twice what it is or a hundred times or half as much or a minuscule fraction of what it is. But if you increase it or decrease it by as little as 5% in either direction then weird shit starts happening, rocky planets like Earth aren't able to form, push it farther and stars can't form, a bit more and the entire universe is just a giant plasma nebula, a bit more and everything just collapses into a black hole.

And that's just one of numerous physical constants that if altered slightly would render life as we know it impossible.

This leaves you with 2 possible conclusions.

The universe was designed by a higher power

or....

There are infinite universes most of which suck and we just got lucky to be in one of the good ones.

>>692054228

Atheism is the rejection of the idea of God because there has been no evidence to support the idea.

Atheists are not forced to believe in an infinite number of universes. wtf are you talking about?

>>692048949
I consider myself agnostic but in that chart 6 represent my view more

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>>692054703

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0

>>692054816
>Waah Wahh why arn't you a 2!!!! don't you think that some day something might happen that will make you change your mind so you must change it now!

>>692054930
Exactly, life as we know it. I do think life could exist even in this universe that doesn't rely on water or maybe even carbon based molecules. The universe, I think, is big enough to have a large variation on life.

By the way, I'm a fan of the latter conclusion and the possibility of the Big Bounce Theory.

I was initially a 6, bordering on 7 for most of my life despite my religious upbringing, but after some revelations I'm about a 3 now, hoping to make it to a 2.

But I will say 1 is equally as bad as 7, not only because of false certainty, but because someone who believes there is absolute provable evidence for the existence of God has no faith, merely belief in what they believe is an objective observable fact. Faith is necessarily predicated on uncertainty and the recognition that there will never be empirical evidence, but choosing to make the leap of faith despite that.

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>>692054963

>Atheists are not forced to believe in an infinite number of universes. wtf are you talking about?

If you studied philosophy you'd realize they are.

See this other post I made....

>>692054930

Now try to give me a logical reason why the gravitational constant should be at the exact level that it is.

You can't, because its just a brute fact of the nature of the universe. Logic doesn't say it couldn't be more or less; but if it were then life as we know it couldn't exist.

So you either have to accept that the universe was designed to be as it is or you have to say there are infinite universes and we just got lucky to be in a good one.

6

7
Throughout history,
every mystery,
ever solved,
has turned out to be not magic.

>>692054748

Maybe some of us don't want to waste time listening to other peoples' nonsense beliefs.

Aside from it creating unnecessary friction in relationships.

>>692048949
Jesus is King theist

6 is literally the only reasonable choice

Kek why the obsession trying to classify every single person. Some of us just have different views.

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4

We know too little about our universe to make an informed decision.

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>>692055593
what the fuck does that have to do with if God exists or not?

>>692055388
Also, 4 is worse than both 1 and 7. Agnosticism is the height of philosophical suicide, and constitutes nothing more than moral apathy, either from sheer stupidity or genuine laziness.

>>692048949
this is wrong though and dawkins would never make this scale, a strong atheist should only be one that says "there is not evidence for a god therefore i dont believe in one"

>>692055674
>literally
You keep using that word. It does not mean what you think it means.

>>692050791
Proof requires truth. What is truth apart from God?

>>692055833
oh sorry for using words you dont like

>>692055502

I'm not forced to believe anything.
I can entertain multiple predictions and still not believe any of them.

For example, an alternative to infinite universes would be one eternal universe.

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>>692055343

Yeah, big bounce also works.

Just 1 universe going through infinite permutations over an infinite amount of time.

The idea that you can say, there's no God and our universe just is the way it is and call it a day though like that's a valid explanation is bullshit and sadly that's what a lot of atheists do.

They study science and philosophy enough to recognize that organized religions is kind of silly; but not enough to realize that there are some really hard fucking questions that science and philosophy struggle to answer.

>>692055502

You're using fallacious arguments

Argument from ignorance mostly

Reminder that all the 6's in this thread arn't 100% sure there isn't a spooky skeleton behind them.

>>692055800
kys u pretentious cunt

some people just dont give a shit about religion, like if someone asked me id probably be like nah god dont exist you but i never think about it

>>692048949
6.
7 = "Everything is wrong except what I beleive in." AKA asshole
1 = "Everything is wrong except what I beleive in" AKA asshole.
Both opposite ends just love to tell you about their shit, whether it's relevant or not.

>>692055758

I'm not arguing whether or not it does.

Rather that I wouldn't put myself in the position of positing that 'God doesn't exist'.

It's a waste of time, to me.

6

>>692048949
1

I'm a god in the hood nigga

>>692056092
Oh absolutely, I'm sure there will be a third view to join philosophy and science one day that will make its mark on the world in the future, but I can't imagine what it'll be. However, we should try to do our best with what we have and what is presented to us and not try to make assumptions on text based of oral traditions that is younger than some cultures.

6. Anyone who says anything other than 6 either doesn't know their shit or refuses to acknowledge the facts that make 6 the only plausible answer.

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>>692055502
>>692055929

>I'm not forced to believe anything.

Well if you want to make a logically valid assertion then yes, you're forced into embracing some manner of infinite universes or a single universe that goes through infinite cycles or design by a higher power.

If you don't then the odds of the universe being as it is under an atheist philosophy without any other universe or any other cycles of the universe is 1 over infinite. And those aren't good odds.

>>692056098

>You're using fallacious arguments

How so?

Can you give me a logical explanation for why the gravitational constant is the value that it is rather than some other value?

Because I know no such argument and the only explanations I've ever heard all rely on some manner of God or some manner of infinite permutations of the universe.

>>692056328
I'm a seven, but I'm willing to change if evidence is brought forth to prove otherwise.
Frankly, I feel that God is our arrogance. Our inability to admit to ourselves that we don't know the answers to all the big questions. To some, a bullshit answer is better than none.
I've grown tired of adults believing in fairy tale nonsense and magic men in the sky.

>>692048949
2
Anselm van Canterbury/Descartes

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>>692056415
Then why are you posting at all? This thread is about personal beleif in God, what you would and would not like to posit is entirely irellivant.

>>692056311
>kys
lel, of course a leafyfag would be willing to admit they're a degenerate moron. Its not that you "dont give a shit" its that you lack the mental capabilities and work ethic to actually investigate possibilities, so you fall into the type of degenerate apathy practiced by children and pseudointellectual scum.

The problem of God is, objectively, the 2nd most important problem that we've yet to discover, just behind the problem of ontological awareness. Taking action and committing yourself to a position - any position at all - will always be better than being an apathetic pussy who isn't man enough to pull himself up by his bootstraps and investigate an essential element of existence.

i don't belive in a god, but i don't belive evolution. Just thinking of how a slight, slight difference from millions of offspring just randomly formed in to a perfect eye fucks me up every time

>>692056092

Honest people recognize they don't know the answer to huge questions.

It's fun to speculate, learn, and think critically but some people either take it too seriously or try to shove it down your throat.

2.

You cannot be a Christian (I use this as an example because I am Christian), and not ever question in the one true power and He almighty

>>692056624
This. 6 for me too. The likelyhood a made up God from fairytales is most likely no real, but there is a chance these fairytales are coincidentally true, slim, but nothing is impossible.

>>692057258
Yeah the odds and time for evolution seemed like a fucking longshot

>>692050260
Hey I mean no one is stopping you from being an atheist and honestly by all means say what you like, I'm just stating how I believe in God is all my man. Its like this: te topic is pringles just for the sake of argument, now you may say I don't like pringles because blah blah blah, but I come in and say I like pringles because this this and that. We respect each others opinions (whih we both are doing) and thats it. You do what you want, I do what I want.

>>692056624
Enlighten us with these objective facts then, and explain how they are objectively the most plausible. Once you're done you can collect your Nobel Peace Prize for doing what millions of better and smarter men before you have tried and failed to accomplish. I am genuinely asking.

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>>692056328
>"People that think other people are wrong are assholes"
>This is mainstream belief
Truly these are the end times

>>692051006
Agreed, 1 reporting in

>>692050791
Our faith is our own and that is why we can't share it

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>>692057408

>The likelyhood a made up God from fairytales is most likely no real, but there is a chance these fairytales are coincidentally true

You've constrained the concept of a God or creator to a very narrow definition, namely those of the ancient organized religions.

What of Deism or Pantheism?

You do not need to endorse a mythology in order to hold a belief in a God.

Damn... /b/ used to be a bunch of atheists about 5+ years ago.

This place is truly cancer now.

3 or 4 was 1 when i was a kiddo and 6-7 when i was a teen

>>692055502
The many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics may account for the gravitational constant but it is by no means the only solution and it is yet to be proven. further it isn't a requisite for atheists to hold to any form of dogma, I could for instance believe, in evidence as firm as that which is available for the existence of God, that humans will create the universe in the future and that our universe exists in a temporal closed loop. Neither does it follow that an atheist must by necesity employ logic, we are not Vulcans. A good number of us do willingly acknowledge in science the best method to aproximate a reasonable understanding of the universe and personally I do find the Copenhagen interpretation to be a sound model, to the degree that as a non mathematician I can understand it, but once again, this is simply my own conviction and not any more binding on atheists than humanism or existentialism which are also philosophies some of us subscribe.

TL;DR Atheists don't have to give a fuck, there's no punishment for us and we lose nothing.

>>692057634
you are a 2, since you have faith instead of knowledge

1

Sometimes you just know...you know that's all.

mhm

>>692049445
I don't know who that guy is, but the way you described his approach to atheism is literally the abridged version of the [Insert Religion Here] Handbook. Makes me laugh how religious people think that behavior is so deplorable yet it's the only way to get farmers and morons to believe in your specific brand of crazy for 2000 years and now look where we are.

>>692057945
You're right, I apologize, and every questions everything anyways. Isn't that what this entire thread is doing?

>>692048949
de-facto athiest. i don't really have anything to say about that.

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>>692057931
What are you talking about, this thread is filled with athiests. They're mostly cucktheists but they still count

>>692057931
It's all the damn /pole dancers

>>692056932
>You're using fallacious arguments
Not him, but I think what he is referring to is when you said:

"This leaves you with 2 possible conclusions.

The universe was designed by a higher power

or....

There are infinite universes most of which suck and we just got lucky to be in one of the good ones."

It's tough to conclude that there are only these two possible conclusions. There could be other possible conclusions that we simply aren't aware of yet.

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>>692057935

> I could for instance believe, in evidence as firm as that which is available for the existence of God, that humans will create the universe in the future and that our universe exists in a temporal closed loop.

That's an interesting one. You still have some definite issues with initial causation when it comes to the existence of anything though.

>Neither does it follow that an atheist must by necesity employ logic, we are not Vulcans

I mean sure, I'm not your master; but if you tell me you don't believe in God and you have no logical reason, then I'll just say "Oh, that's nice." the same way that I would if a Christian or Hindu or what not told me they believe with certainty; but have no logical reason to.

You can believe whatever you desire if you're willing to accept that you can't logically justify it; but that's pretty much the end point for any logical discussion of the topic.

PS: I wish we were Vulcans, if logic were a woman I'd marry her.

>>692056932

My logically valid assertion in this context would be 'I don't know'.

My disposition however would be towards a naturalist prediction. I am happy to reject positive assertions that the universe is one of an infinite number, until evidence is presented.

The weight of evidence as far as what the answer most likely is, seems to be leading towards the naturalist conclusion. Therefor it is not unreasonable to hypothesize.

On the other hand, God as a theory has failed on many levels. It is logically invalid and unsound.


You are using the inability to answer a question or ignorance, as a way to say that the two hypothesis you know of, are on equal footing. That is fallacious.

Where does Not Giving A Shit fall?

I'm would be that.

>>692050639

Same here, but I do believe ''something'' made it all.. I'm kinda afraid to talk to my parents about this shit, because I could convince them that there is no God which could throw both of their lifes into chaos or they just try to convince me there is one.. I don't like either so I keep avoiding any friction and just pray during dinner.. we also have a tradition to study the bible for 3 years and then take a test so to own my own bible, but I just avoid it.. It's going good for now, but how the fuck do I say it without breaking into a discussion..

TLDR:

Same. Just doing religion-like things infront of parents while believing more in science. How do I talk about this?

>>692059303
Where does Not Giving A Shit fall?

>>692054507

>>692057709
Well, the likelyhood any of them are right is slim.

>>692048949
If you 1, 2, 3, 4, or 7 you are a faggot

>>692048949
this scale is useless because the term "God" is not clarified.

If "God" in this case means the God of the Bible, then I'm a 7.
But if "God" means any abstract higher power that can't be detected, I'm a 6.

>>692048949
Pure Agnostic should be:
I think the existence of God is unknowable.

It has nothing to do with probability, it has to do with being able to know.

>>692048949
>>692048949
Strong Atheist.

No such as God is even remotely possible in this universe. We're a puny little planet among quadrillions and quintillions. Arrogance to believe we had anything yo do with the universe.

>>692059133

That would be a fallacy, if he was saying that those are the only two possibilities. He did admit however, that one eternal universe could be possible too.

I'm referring to his using our ignorance of an answer and lack of evidence as a means to say that God and these other naturalist explanations are on equal footing.

They clearly are not.

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>>692059133

Well sure, if I'm writing a paper on it I'm going to hedge my bets a bit more; but as far as shooting my mouth off on 4chan goes those 2 explanations and their permutations are the strongest and most common in philosophy.

>>692059208

>On the other hand, God as a theory has failed on many levels.

God as a theory, is more broad then you're giving it credit for if you think that.

A Pantheist or Deist creating force has very few obligations beyond existing and creating existence.

>>692059469

>Well, the likelyhood any of them are right is slim.

I don't think you can calculate those sort of odds with any significant degree of validity.

We are discussing things (Gods, alternate universes) which are by nature beyond our capacity to observe; but which are also necessitated as causal factors by the nature of our existence.

I honestly don't believe we can make an assertion of God, or of alternate universes with any real degree of empirical validity since we can't provide evidence for the existence of either.

Agnostic Deist. I am unaccounted for

>>692048949
>pure agnostic
>Both are equally probably

That's not what agnostic means but okay.

6, I don't know how anybody can think any other way logically otherwise

Please explain, anons, I wish for insight

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>>692060238

>I'm referring to his using our ignorance of an answer and lack of evidence as a means to say that God and these other naturalist explanations are on equal footing.

>They clearly are not.

I say that they are.

In the one case I am asked to believe in one unobserved, supernatural thing (a God) which is alien in nature to anything that I have observed and which I have no evidence for.

In the other instance I am asked to believe in other things which are like the universe that I have observed (alternate universe or alternate cycles of our own universe); but which I am also unable to observe or verify empirically and which by logical necessity I must conclude to exist in infinite number.

So it is a choice between 1 unobservable, infinite thing which is unlike anything I have observed or an infinite number of unobservable things which are like things I have observed.

I find neither assertion to be much stronger than the other.

>>692060402

Then a pantheist or deist should give a good definition of what God is, then explain what led them to believe that such a thing exists and created the universe.

>>692057238
>implying i read any of that

kys you salty faggot neckbeard

6 most days

>>692060924
What's making you so uncertain?

>>692060924
Your view is exactly as logical as your theist counterpart. Too much is unknown about the fundamental nature of existence to make a claim about the function and cause of origin and nothing discovered so far precludes divine creation.

weak theist.
grandmother was quite religious and none of her other grandchildren were so i sorta faked it to make her happy as a kid, some of it stuck i suppose

1.

La Ilaha IllAllah wa anna Muhammad-ur Rasulilah.

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>>692061061

The definitions provided by such philosophies vary. Some of them more easily argued against than others.

The most problematic for an atheist to disprove would be God merely as a creationary force (without any definite moral nature) who set the universe in motion and then never affected it again.

Clearly that's not the sort of personal God that most theists have in mind; but if you're debating the validity of the concept of God then its a concept which an atheist must disprove.

>>692048949
I am pure agnostic. 4.

>>692061196
You obviously cared enough to reply to me twice. Your sole utility in this thread is to make me feel good about how much better I am than you. Your own anger is a net gain on the whole of humanity's happiness. How does it feel knowing that being my property is the most you'll ever engage the world ethically?

>>692060924
well when i was younger and a Catholic, I just went with it as if it there was another existence that some people had discovered and talked about to everyone else. It was so-so until I actually took it seriously and found nothing but a story taken too seriously.

>>692048949
>6 maybe 7
There is about as much chance of god existing as there is cthulu and unicorns, so you wont see me patterning my life around the idea that either exists, but i do accept the fact i am not all knowing and could be wrong about every aspect of the universe as i know it.

>>692061649
This guy gets it.

What we know from scientific study has never come close to disproving the possibility of one or more gods.

It has discredited many religious stories, intentionally or not.

>>692061046

There is a pretty big difference.

I recommend reading Sean Carroll's book, "The Big Picture".

God is a vague hypothesis put forward in a haphazard and disjunctive manner. Has an unclear definition and hardly makes any useful predictions. It is most often presented and defended using fallacious arguments.

The many worlds theory or other naturalist conjecture has useful models that have precise definitions. They have, at the very least, mathematical proposals that support them and valid and sound reasoning to follow.

It by no means makes it true or forces you to believe them. It does however give a compelling case.

>>692061461
You have a point, but I'm wondering what causes someone to be more leaning towards some higher power then making conclusions off of what we know as of now
Not sure if that makes sense, but hopefully you get what I mean

>>692050111
Trips of truth
Seriously, anything other than 3, 4 or 5 is stupid. Also, this would be a lot better if 'God' was replaced with 'a god or gods'.

>>692061759
>implying i read that

mate you gotta keep it short i dont care about your intellectualism :D:D:D

>>692062181
On a personal level I think it is a comfort thing. On an evolutionary level, belief without proof is more likely to save you from a predator than it is to harm you so it is likely bred into us.

>>692048949

Strong atheist. It's fun to think about but in reality it's blatantly obviously a made up fiction by humans to explain things before the scientific method was in use.

>>692062789
Even if you could prove every religious text wrong, you still haven't disproved the concept of a divine creator.

>>692061649

Woah no

First of all "creationary force" is an extremely vague concept and could mean anything.

Does this God have it's own unique awareness and perspective?

If you are claiming this is true, why should anyone believe it?

deities and religion beliefs have been created because of the cognitive bias of the human mind, for example the wishful thinking of a heaven; because we fear death it is more comforting to believe that there is a paradise after death than accept the truth that when we die all brain activity ceases and so its our conscience. it just disappears forever; the eternal oblivion.

so I'm a 7

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>everyone in this thread

way to bait the reddit fags op

>>692063072
It's not about what you should or shouldn't believe. It is a concept that has not, in any way, been disproven by scientific discovery.

>>692050111

That which can be put forward without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.

>>692063554

That's an argument from ignorance homie

>>692062733
Thanks for explaining, man

Most of the time if I ask for reasoning from either side I get anally raped by either strong theists or atheists

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>>692060924
Why does what you deem "certain" narrow so much when God comes into the mix? I'm sure there are other things you are certain about which should be uncertain by the same critera you give for the existance of God.

>>692062181
Because they feel it deep in they're hearts normally. If a divine being speeks to you directly why on earth would you need evidence, reason or logic?

>>692048949
If atheism means not believing in a god.
6 leaning toward 7.
I do not believe in anything that transcends beyond the natural universe, but I do believe in a higher power.
But only atheism is a pretty shallow thing to identify with.
I'm spiritual or religious, regardless of my belief in a god.

>>692048949
De facto theist

>>692048949
2

>>692057931
And what is wrong with Christianity?
Also, 1 reporting in.

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6.9
as any thinking person should be

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>>692048949
Is there anything that in the slightest probability that there was a creator, however he allowed science to take a part of it as well.

Some magical sky fairy cannot just exist because where did he come from?

>Inb4 he already existed

I cannot believe that. Some ethereal presence beyond what we can comprehend created the universe but never interveines. . .

I'm not crazy am I?

>>692064048
You would like Sam Harris.
His book "waking up" is pretty cool.

7 and I can prove it.

>>692064472
my god

does this mean that OP is a faggot?

>>692064644
God's not real.

>>692063772
Yes, but you have missed the reason why.

The concept is that all we know as fact does not begin to explain the process or function of the existence of the universe at any level. What we have are a small but well crafted part of the puzzle. None of it shows any signs that it wasn't initially created by divine power.

It is not to say that the god of this religion or that religion is actually real and we just got a few details wrong, it is that all of the very real science that has disproven core foundations of major religions does not categorically disprove the existence of a divine power.

Some day, in theory, if all processes are perfectly understood and measured then it may be said that no god exists but until that happens or nearly happens, claiming that divine creation in no way had anything to do with the universe is wild speculation.

>>692064830
If god was real, why didn't he abort you?

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>>692063072

>First of all "creationary force" is an extremely vague concept and could mean anything.

Yes, that's the point. I'm providing you with the hardest to disprove concept of God to demonstrate that proving an atheist philosophy is not as easy as some might believe.

>Does this God have it's own unique awareness and perspective?

That's not relevant to the discussion. The only definite thing about this God is that it created the universe, I have made no assertions to why or how.

>If you are claiming this is true, why should anyone believe it?

I'm not claiming its true, I'm providing it as a hypothesis which is necessary to disprove if you want to make a strong assertion of atheism.

I am an agnostic, at most a weak theist.

That said, if its true then it doesn't matter if you believe it.

>>692064965

Just to piss you off.

>>692064809
Prove it

>>692065287
You were born

>>692055553
Quantum improbability, bitch.

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>>692065287

Would your God allow this?

>>692064944
14 billion years is like seconds for him. He is God after all

2
>>692065407
Old Testament God was a cruel deity

>>692065374
>>692065407
Maybe this is why he abandoned us. Because of what we have done. Maybe it's better to just end it then ask for forgiveness

>>692065388
if you have to go to the quantom level to be uncertain obout something that's pretty much certain

>>692065435
Says who? Making shit up again eh christians. Classic

7

anything above 5 is completely retarded

>>692064965
If a god exists, what makes you think he would care about humans?

2

>>692064830

If I ask a pantheist or deist, "why should I take what you say seriously?"
And they answer me "Because you don't know the answer."

Then it becomes clear that their answer has been pulled from their ass.

That is not the case with conjectural and speculative answers from science. They don't rely on dishonest and fallacious arguments.

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OR BURN FOREVER (what a loving asshole)

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>>692048949
1

i love Jesus

>>692065696
we'll see who the retarded one really is when you're burning in hell, and all you had to do was believe

>>692065638
I'd argue that if we are uncertain about how the basic building blocks of the universe work, we are pretty damn uncertain.

>>692065681
We're just humans. That's a lot for us. Imagine a God, he probably wouldn't notice. I'm not trying to convert you, but maybe open your mind a bit

>>692048949
4.
There's no evidence to prove or disprove the existence of a "creator". Any other answer is just purely bias.

>>692065858
The bible says believe. If you don't believe, you deserve hell. Repent.

Also, eating from the tree gave us free will, not necessarily God

>>692065886
nice bait

oh wait, it actually isnt :(

>>692064830
still an argument from ignorance. So if we don't know and may never know, that means we can pretend we know? Not if you want the actual truth about reality. If you want your beliefs to match reality as close as possible, you don't believe things until evidence and reason support it. until then, remain agnostic. Also, just note that this argument has nothing to do with any of the worlds main religions. Those are all demonstrably false.

>>692065716
If God created everything that means he created every human, and obviously there's some deep mechanical problems if faggots pop out left and right.

>>692064944
>some people in the desert

You mean early humans, his most precious creation. Made in his own image. We're not tadpoles, you twat. We're human beings, and Jesus Christ is our savior.

>>692066090
See you in hell

>>692065929
I can imagine a lot of things. That is not a reason for me to think they are real. Seriously, read what you are writing. How can you not see the absurdity?

>>692066232

so what you're saying is that I believe in god, which if I did would be the cruelest fucking piece of shit to ever exist, and I would fucking hate him and wish he would suck his own cum, but i believe in him, I would go to heaven?

mmmm okay

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>>692064672
Prayer would have kept him alive anyway.

Prove me wrong.

PROTIP: The fact that prayer works is the ultimate proof of God, and the only reason you don't believe is because you've never tried it.

Want to run a scientific experiment? Pray to God with full earnesty 10 times, then do the same with Joe Pesci. As long as you earnestly believe in God's power (see: mustard seed moving mountains parable), your prayers WILL work. I've seen it happen.

Hell-bound heathens ITT.

>>692066446
george carlin trollin from da grave?

>>692048949
7

>>692065892
But that's just flipping over the chessboard and acting like you've conquered the universe. Of course you could just say that everything's uncertain but that just leads to a gay paradox and the death of philosphy/science.

Reletive to the uncertainty of everything else in the universe I can say that I am certain that god does not exist.

>>692065159

Wow what a scam of an argument

Ok so the point is to make the concept so unclear that it basically becomes useless.
It's likes if I ask you "What is 2+2" and you tell me "2+2 is the answer to your question"
Congrats on peddling bullshit.

It is if you want to define what the fuck your talking about.
We could literally find out that the answer to the universe is some equation and cucks like you would claim "Yeah that's God, God is that equation"

Yeah it doesn't matter if I believe it because you've essentially stripped the concept of all meaning.
Useless Garbage

>>692065159
A hypothesis must be falsifiable. Science 101. Your assertion is not even a hypothesis. It is a purposely vague statement that people cling to for no reason, and call it "faith"

>>692051257
Neckbeard spotted

>>692066446

Yeah the devoutly religious should experiment with this.

Reject medicine and ride that holy boly prayer train

>>692067220
Edit: People do cling to faith for reasons, but they are purely emotional reasons and have nothing to do with what is true about nature

>>692048949
I would like to believe im a weak theist
3

>>692066401
You sound like a faggot, i wouldn't be surprised if you went there. I hope your life if suffering so once you go there, you won't know the difference

>>692066352
I don't care that the fact you don't believe in God, I just want you to think about it. I think about if there's no God

>>692067470
What a strange statement. You would like to believe you are a weak theist?

What the fuck are you talking about?

Like all religious people, you just believe what you like to believe. Facts are secondary

>>692054269
Edge lord confirmed?

>>692067470

Lol I'm agnostic about what I believe..

>>692066719
For me the existence of Quantum Improbability does not imply a Nihilistic uncertainty, instead I find that it merely implies that we cannot consider the universe through wholly empirical analysis.
Since there must be certain things beyond observation, I don't see why God can't be one of those things.

>>692068011
Can i see your 2 incher? Dubs command it.

6

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>>692065159
>>692067220

>A hypothesis must be falsifiable. Science 101

This is philosophy not science.

And you're right you can't disprove the hypothesis of a deist or pantheist creator any more than you can disprove the multiverse or an infinitely respawning universe since all of these things are beyond our capacity to empirically observe.

Which is why this is not a scientific topic and why agnosticism is the logical attitude to have towards a question that you can't answer.

>>692066862

No the point is to show you what you have to disprove in order to prove athiesm. Now you can get pissy about the fact that its very hard to disprove; but that's not a counter argument its merely a concession that you can't disprove it.

Now are you done having a temper tantrum? Would you like to make a counterargument or do you just want to complain more to cover for the fact that you have no reason not to concede that agnosticism is the logical stance regarding questions that you can't answer with science or empirical observation?

>>692067780
Trust me, I have thought about it. I have honestly researched this for 12 years now. Not trolling, not joking. If you have an open mind, you will get here one day. There is almost certainly no deistic god, and there is certainly no theistic god. If you aren't even sure of what these terms mean, you have a long way to go. Just so you know, I am open to spiritual experience. I am interested in consciousness. I just feel that nothing need be believed without good reason to explore these topics.

6
any 1 or 7 is retarded