gun rights are an important part of the balance of power in the US. When I hear politicians wanting to ban assault weapons I feel that's the opposite of what we need, ban handguns and concealable weapons people kill each other everyday with. Mass shooting account for a tiny fraction of gun deaths and an even tinier fraction of total deaths.

No one's up for debating? And no, I will not go to /pol/. I feel like that would just immediately get militant.

There are 360 million guns in the United States. There are 11k gun homicides a year. That means that .0005 percent of legal firearms in the United States are used in a homicide. Not to mention a buyback would be out of the question at that point for monetary reasons. A confiscation would start a second civil war.

Last mass shooting here was 1996, after that we got rid of the guns, we've had no more shootings. Your move amerifats

>>690373503
I actually think banning any civilian firearm is a bad idea. So many guns will get lumped into that legislation because of bad interpretation. Not to mention I feel like if either side takes a step back from the line they've drawn-like gun rights advocates accepting any kind of firearms ban-the opposition will be able to push their agenda more effectively

>>690373988
What country are you in?

>>690373988
Define "here." Facts need to be checked on this one

>>690374434
>>690374459
Australia

>>690374504
You got rid of 631K guns. America has 360 million.

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I will never support gun control and i'm a liberal.

>>690374623
Just get rid of em fam

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Gun control is being able to hit what you're shooting at.

>>690374831
The average cost per gun of your buyback was right around 730 dollars. At that average it would cost the US 300 billion dollars for a gun buyback.

>>690373988
Uneducated, legitimate question here: how many mass shootings were there before 1996, and what was the time gap in between them? Also, when did you "get rid of the guns?" Having no more shootings could be due to something else, or this could just be a big lull in between the last and next...horrible as that sounds to say...

i love the idea of strict gun control being enforced by police storm troopers pointing the very guns they want to confiscate directly at me. I will give up my firearms when the police and military give up theirs.

>>690375027
Heheheh...the irony in that pic is palpable, and I love it

>>690375351
It's like these people think that every gun owner would just roll over and give up their property without putting up a fight.

>>690375309
Dude, the reason why Australia has not had any more mass shootings is because we don't have guns. There's no other reasoning. It's very hard to get hold of a gun here and we have a similar percentage of fucking crazy people per population as the USA I can assure you.

If you dont like guns, move to Europe. What separates the USA and almost everywhere else is our 2nd amendment rights.

>>690375156
the few gun buybacks that were attempted only offered a small percentage of the actual value of the gun and in most cases they gave no money at all. There were thinly veiled attempts to get the black communities to give over there guns and it failed on all accounts. "lets see if niggers will give up them stolen guns for a pair of Jordan's" was the real message behind the gun buybacks.

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>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCUMv120oCw

"What is it like to fire an AR-15? It’s horrifying, menacing and very very loud.

It felt to me like a bazooka — and sounded like a cannon.

But mostly, I was just terrified.

Squeeze lightly on the trigger and the resulting explosion of firepower is humbling and deafening (even with ear protection).

The recoil bruised my shoulder, which can happen if you don't know what you're doing. The brass shell casings disoriented me as they flew past my face. The smell of sulfur and destruction made me sick. The explosions — loud like a bomb — gave me a temporary form of PTSD. For at least an hour after firing the gun just a few times, I was anxious and irritable."

Gersh Kuntzman
New York Daily News

>>690376167
That's great man but we will never give up our guns like you cowards in Australia. Stay mad ausfag.

>>690375627
when they come to take my guns they will get my ammo first.

>>690376167

You've had at least 3 mass shootings since 2003, your faggot media just doesn't report it. The father that shot his 2 kids and wife and then shot himself wasn't televised, but it happened.

>>690372720
"Someone really like florida and guns....
Oh, it's a gun. Made of words related to guns."

>>690376325
What a fucking cuck

>>690376639
I'll proudly stand beside you brother

>>690372720
For gun control.
We need to rewrite the Constitution and facilitate a rebirth of our government.
Gun rights/privileges will be an important part of the new Constitution.

I like how no one is talking about the number of people killed in Orlando. How many were from police crossfire? We have all seen the videos look how much ammo they pumped into that place. We cant talk about that because those cops have "training". What a bunch of bullshit. looks like to me the cops have some explaining to do there but we will never hear that in the news.

>>690376810
there is no "privilege" with the 2A.
it is a right to bear arms.
a fucking right.
there's no asterisks in there motherfucker

>>690376325
Yeah, the original article he posted pissed me off. You wanna talk shittily covered up anti-gun propaganda, look no further. You can...wait for it...SHOOT HOLES in his entire article! Also, I'm laughing so damn hard at that video-please tell me that's actually him!

>>690376167
gun control is a luxury you get to enjoy, but like it or not, America represents freedom (as close as we can get) and the more that gets chipped away, the greater the risk of tyranny

why does everyone get distracted by the tools used in killings? shouldn't we be trying to figure out why humans mental health can erode so fast and lead them to killing others? who care if the use a gun, knife, bomb, airplane, or car. We are focusing on the wrong issues here. violence is fucking violence.

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This.

>>690377366
its not the bill of needs but a lot of motherfuckers sure think it is.

>>690376810
I agree that the government needs an overhaul. But unless somehow all guns magically disappear from the face of the planet, there's no possible way to stop people from getting their hands on them. That's why I think it's incredibly important for good people to get them easily. If people with bad intentions can get guns and people with good intentions can't, then there will be nothing but a drastic increase in gun related violence.

>>690377109
Train as you might, there's no way to practice for adrenaline but to be in the thick of things and actually get an adrenaline rush. People think it's so easy to make a decision, aim, and then pull the trigger with perfect accuracy, even in situations like Orlando. It's definitely not that simple.

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>>690377709

>>690377366
I simply want the treatised demilitarization of earth. Every nation should have to sign a treaty where we all need to decrease our military sizes by a percentage each year. The ones who don't follow must be globally reprimanded.

For guns, for con control but in the form of stronger background checks. I believe in my civil duty to protect myself from a tyrannical government. Everyone thinks it can never happen in the US. But we will be destroyed from the inside, not from the outside

>>690378349
then you just give the power to the biggest, strongest group of people and the physically weak will begin to arm themselves to compensate, it is human nature

>>690378058
it is that simple the police could have killed as many if not more than the shooter. just listen to the damn videos. That's a fuck load of fully automatic fire. you mean to tell me that all that shooting and the police couldn't have accidentally shot some people and that its some how ok to ignore? I'm not saying that its easy to be in a gunfight and keep your wits. what i'm saying is there's a pile of dead motherfuckers and the police could very well be responsible for some of them. That's not OK. The fucked up thing is that no one wants to talk about it.

>>690378349
how?
they would literally have the biggest military on the planet so they could shit all over your parade
also
>"if we throw down our weapons and become peaceful, so will the bad guys!!! I saw it on greenpeace!!"

>>690377709
Everyone gets so distracted by the tools because that's essentially what they're conditioned to do. The government, the media, and now their peers are telling them guns are evil. What we really need to look at here is why each of those groups are demonizing firearms. And my answer to that-at the risk of sounding to conspiracy theorist-y-is that the government ultimately wants an obedient, controllable society to lead. And taking away the means for people to adequately defend themselves is a huge step in that process. I believe the government has a hand in what the media reports as well. So there are the motives for the government and the media to demonize firearms. We already know the motives of the general populace.

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>>690378349
>yeah I signed this paper saying I won't do the war anymore
>I totally would never ever secretly keep my war stuff
>I also would never use my secret war stuff to btfo the nations actually demilitarizing their nations

>>690378349
How do you enforce the reprimand? with armed groups? you're not very smart are you?

>>690377709
While I agree that we should be concerned with the reasons why people commit these violent acts occur, I don't think this is the real issue, since the overwhelming majority of people are not violent to this degree. Given any sufficiently large population (such as that of the US), it only makes sense that there are some number of people who are this unstable, while there's almost no chance of having nobody be so. Thus, gun control acts as a fail-safe of sorts: it is just another barrier between the violent and the tools necessary to enact that violence.

>>690378581
>"LOL your a looney who thinks that there's going to be tyranny in the US"
>"Trump is LITERALLY Hitler"

>>690378829
>>690378721
We need to create channels of open dialogue for all humanity. We will achieve this goal. It will be done in the next few hundred years or sooner. We have already obtained levels of peace never seen before. We will soon become one mind/body through the use of technology. Man will be a single unit with many voices and feelings, carefully interlinked between the individuals. This will happen exceedingly soon if we make headway towards it.

>>690379213
yeah but those "barriers" you speak of don't stop crime. look at the french shootings. France's gun control policy failed. so its really going to work in a country that has more guns then people in France. you can un-invent the gun.

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>>690372720

>>690378581
This tbh. I don't want to have to fight against my own country, but I'll be damned if I let my country take my rights without a fight.

>>690378780
No one wants to talk about it because if the police didn't fire anything back at the gunman/gunmen, they would have 1: killed the police, and 2: continued their rampage. I say that yes, it is horrible that some of the Orlando deaths could have been caused by police gunfire, but it would be even more horrible if the shootings continued and MORE people died

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The problem is your 2th Amendement. Why don't you suppress it ? It's an old text and the time of the Cowboys has ending.

>>690379582
no, fuck that.
look, humanity cannot exist as a utopia.
humans are a warring species. we are built and bred to want to kill other shit and make ourselves better.
this commie treehugger shit is fucking cancer

>>690374504
At what percent did robbery and assault increase?

>>690379768
I'll take the high inner city rates that hyperinflate the stats over the inability to defend myself from the hordes of Muslims that will try to come here after they finally conquer Eurabia

>>690379742
Ahh yes but then why cover it up if that the case?
Because its not. Its ok for the police to kill people even if its an accident or if its the realm of trying stop another crime.
why wouldn't the police and news be more open about that?

>>690379768
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

>>690379776
No. It is the answer and you're not listening for simple, mundane reasons.

You are insecure, self-loathing and want to lash out at others for the pain you've experienced.

Become stronger than that. Reach out and become One. We are all here for us (you). All you have to do is except that I'm (we're) here for you.

Mature and love the world, for (y)our own sake.

even if you control guns, criminals whom seek to utilize guns for nefarious purposes will source and acquire guns. ergo, gun control laws will only affect the law-abiding civilian population.

>>690372720
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1S03s8OSZU&feature=youtu.be

>>690379786
some sources say as much as 35 percent but there was an active campaign in Australia to black those statistics from coming out because surely taking away guns made Aussies safer in there home.

For.

Every American should be required to own a rifle to protect from enemies both foreign and domestic.

I do not want to live in a society where the majority of people feel the need to carry a firearm to protect themselves. I want to live in a society where there is no need to carry a weapon for personal protection.

Simple logic is that to build that society, we need less guns not more guns.

>>690380520
>my wants trump the rights of others

>>690380520
And I want to live in a world where I shit gold but neither of us are going to get what we want.

As long as a society has people, there will be a need for guns.

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Every hardcore anti-gunner i have ever met was pretty much like Mr. mackey. They couldn't provide many facts to back up what they say and when you point out any flaw in there logic they just say this:

>>690380159
They aren't trying to cover it up, they're just not talking about it. Nobody is. The possibility of accidental deaths by good guy gunfire is common sense. And to give you an answer, I say more research and work needs to be put towards reducing that possibility, but my personal belief is that any accidental death was justified for the purpose of preventing more deaths on a mass scale

>>690380520
If you lived in a society where there was a good chance that if you broke into somebody's house you would die, would you break into somebody's house? Most likely no. An armed society is a polite society.

>>690375027
"save one child"
"i had an abortion"
yeah okay trust her

>>690380672

Nonsense, there are many civilised countries where guns are not common place.

>>690373714
>11k is 0.0005% of 360 mil

You make a valid point but your math is all retarded

>>690380662
His wants protect the best interest of not only himself, but everyone.

Your rights/privileges protect yourself and a few others near you, but threaten everyone

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Against because of pic related.

It shows that it's not a gun problem at all.

>>690381033
Societies where the youth beat the shit out of people for fun?

I'm in Canada, you don't see guns anywhere, and a single death involving a gun is big news. I think the second amendment is ridiculous and out-dated.

>>690380786

The rates of robbery in parts of the world where gun ownership is low (eg UK) vs the US are highly comparable, so this argument does not stack up.

The U.S. Constitution states:
'The Second Amendment of the United States Constitution reads: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."'
I say, giv the guns to the people that want to protect themselves, take them from the people that want to cause chaos.

>>690380762
Yeah could you say that to a victims face? what if it was one of your family members in that club?
i'm not saying the police are wrong here what i'm saying is if were are going talk rational for gun control and quote stats of people killed by guns we need to talk about the numbers of people killed by police every year. The cops shoot more people in this country than armed crazies. they cant all be justified and yes they are trying to cover up what really happened in Orlando you don't have to be a tinfoil hat wearing nut job to figure that out.

>>690381174
Sweden is full of white people
Has less gun deaths
>the problem is the negro

>>690380520
Agreed on the first part of this comment. I wish there wasn't a need for self defense at all. I wish people would just learn to fucking love each other and that no one would even dream of hurting another person. But that's just not going to happen, no matter what anyone does. It's all but impossible. Therefore, I say trying to build it is a moot point.

i think americans are just retarded and even without any guns at all they would still find ways to have a mass murder every day

>>690380762
>>690380786

ah, america, the fact-free society.

accidental gun deaths and homicides in the home far outweigh self-defense uses. for every life a legally carried and used gun saves, 10 are accidentally -- or criminally -- lost.

research about guns is banned in USA by right wing politicians.

as for "most likely no" boy, america has more robberies than most (really, all) civilized countries:
http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Robberies


sad that so many people have "opinions" which are really the opposite of actual facts, and we're expected to have a "civil debate" with them. haha.

>>690381178
There is a reason why Canada is irrelevant.

>>690380148
>implying inner city rates somehow don't matter
>being this much in denial

>>690381380
/thread

>>690381155
>responsible person with a gun
>"threatening everyone"

>>690381409
It has been done in other parts of the world. Why is the US so special that it is impossible? It will take time, and there is a huge cultural change that needs to happen, but as a goal it is something society should work towards.

>>690381155
But as long as his wants are only hopes and dreams, they're not protecting anybody...

The issue is so deep rooted in what it means to be human that it is not solvable without changing people.

>>690379705
Of course it's not any guarantee, and bad people can still get a hold of guns. I was merely pointing out that, given our population in the US, we cannot hope to fix the problem at the mental health juncture, and, thus, should explore other ways of keeping those people from being able to act out their desires.

Making the process of acquiring a firearm more lengthy, to allow those acting on an impulse to let it subside, for instance, may be one way of helping, without truly barring anyone access. Limiting kinds of firearms to only those with training in their use and safety may also help ensure that they are used properly.

Again, none of this is a guarantee, and truly bad people can always find a way to get their hands on what they want. However, people like the Sandy Hook shooter acted on an impulse; if he had not had immediate access to his parents' firearms, it is likely that the shooting wouldn't have occurred, and his odd behaviour and mental issues would have been caught in some other, less deadly incident.

>>690381521

At least we get a front row seat to the gun-toting morons down south. And honestly, I tried to make that respectful.

>>690381496
>accidental gun deaths and homicides in the home far outweigh self-defense uses

Source

>research about guns is banned in USA by right wing politicians.

Not at all. Go learn about that. The researchers were caught using their "studies" to push an agenda, basically they got their conclusions first, then made the study to reach those conclusions instead of the opposite.

They just don't get TAX PAYER MONEY anymore, research is not banned at all you moron.

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>>690380520
>Jamal the giganigga finds sizable stick inna woods
>old man and his pregnant daughter out for a stroll
>DINDUNUFFINHEAGOODBOI.avi
>beats elderly man and pregnant women to death

But its OK the police could have handled it right?
Or we could....
>give old man a hand cannon
>give prego a 9mm
>give Jamal a highpoint
>2.5 v 1 gunfight in favor of good folk
At least its a fair fight now.

>>690381635
Because it is written in the constitution of the United States. The very building block of our country.

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Dumping Swiss gun ownership pics.

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>>690381915

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>>690381943

>>690381855

The second amendment is ancient and out-dated.

>>690381689
>front row seat to people shooting guns at one another
I guess natural selection will take care of the Canadian problem.

>>690381855
This is the same logic that it is ok to fuck a child because its written in the Quoran and Mohamed has a 12 year old wife.... just because something is written down hundreds of years ago does not mean it cannot be re-assessed.

>>690381990
Says who?

>>690372720
Back to le reddit faggot.

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>>690381983

>>690382044
>owning guns is the same as raping children

Fuck off you retard.

>>690382002

I've seen retarded comebacks, but that was among the most retarded I've ever seen.

>Be Australian
>Have literally never seen a gun
>Dad was a cop for 30 years
>He never once used his weapon
>Feel oppressed about lack of freedom all day

>>690381990
So is the first

Legitimate eurofag question here, why are some amerifats so opposed to more extensive background checks? Surely we van agree that someone with a history of mental health problems (for example) shouldn't be allowed to purchase a firearm?

>>690381616
Yes, even a responsible gun owner makes mistakes. It's a part of being human.

>>690381990
by what metric?

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>>690382096
These pics basically invalidates the notion that guns are the problem.

>>690381379
Well I can tell you that if it was one of my family members, I would be immensely sad and angry that it happened, and even more angry that it happened at the hands of one of the good guys, but I still wouldn't demonize the police. They were ultimately the ones who ended the massacre.

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>>690372720
Amerifats are among third world shitholes with firearm homicides. The civilized world already figured this out, but I guess America still needs some time to put two and two together.

>>690382098
Not a comeback?

>>690382044
Why are you going to a straw man argument? This isn't about religion....it's about rights granted to us when our country first began.

>>690382096
>not understanding an analogy

Kek.

>>690381664
I can tell you have never researched american gun laws because everything you brought up is all ready a crime. Once again its the "well i thinks it ok so long as you comply with the law and jump through all these hoops" argument. The police kill more people in this country than any one else. Why are you not asking for the disarmament of the police?

>>690372720
I support the proper regulation of firearms, but not the outright ban of them.

Many that support trying to ban them throw out cherry picked statistics. Sure, GUN crimes will be slightly higher in places with more guns, but what they don't like to touch is the fact that home invasions and overall violent crimes are reduced.

>>690382060

People who look at all the mass shootings and see there's a problem. There should be much stricted gun control, I'm not saying we should get rid of them all together. Every time that is mentioned, the Republicans flip their shit and call tyranny. I am very right wing, but that is utter bullshit.

>>690382180
kek
dat suicide rate tho

>>690382096
Not what I was saying. What I was saying is that just because something used to be relevent, as society grows and changes, so should the rules in which we live. The argument of 'it is in our constitution', whilst emotive, really is a ridiculous position.

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>>690382180
Now compare that picture with gun ownership rates around the world.

>>690382245
>urr durr you cannot compare cars with guns, because guns are MADE TO KILL!! But first lemme compare pedophilia and rape with owning guns ;3

>>690381635
In what other parts of the world is there literally zero violence or hate?

>>690382180
>3 people per hundred thousand
>three fucking people
>"third world shithole"

>>690372720
Make background checks better. Make wait period 3 weeks. Focus more on reducing poverty. These will help lower homicides in general, specifically gun homicides.

>>690382306
If you do not like guns then don't own them. It's actually that simple.

>>690381762

>Source

"In 2010, according to the most recent data on justifiable homicides from the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) program, there were 230 justifiable homicides involving a private citizen using a firearm in self-defense during either an attempted or a completed crime. In the same year, there were 8,275 firearm homicides. This means that, for every one justifiable firearm homicide, there were 36 criminal homicides."

That's not even counting accidents!!!! dipshit!

>They just don't get TAX PAYER MONEY anymore, research is not banned at all you moron.

oh, you sad, angry, butthurt little faggot. clutching your $300 anime statue in one hand and your $200 handgun in the other.

all public health research is funded by the government. that's why it's called "public health." all universities receive federal funding. the cdc and nih are tasked with maintaining the public health -- these are the only groups that should be doing this work, and they aren't allowed.

what private research group do you propose do it? the fucking gun lobby? dumb cunt.

>>690381656
Finally a sensible suggestion, remove the people.

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>>690382323
The 2nd is an amazing right, only a fucking moron won't see how important it is.

>>690382323
Why don't we just completley get rid of that pesky bill of rights while we're at it. Fucking outdated shit amirite?

>>690382415

Yeah I'll leave that to the mentally ill and terrorist-affiliated people who we can't ban from owning because it's "against the second amendment."

>>690382368
There is voilance and hate everywhere, but there are many parts of the western world which are comparable to the US where guns are not common place, society does not want them to be common place, and the problems associated with guns are extremely rare whilst the benefits of having a gun are pretty much non existent.

>>690382485

yeah, we've never removed anything from the constitution.

Guns are still sold/marketed to americants BC of capitalism/muhfreedumb.

Grow the fuck up.

Stop letting some wealthy motherfuckers rape you.

>>690382382
>among third worlds in this category
Learn to read.

>>690382544
>voilance

i died

>>690381380
and yet all mass shootings are done by autistic white kids.

>>690382428
>
Here's how retarded you are:

>URR DURR IN ORDER TO SUCCESSFULLY HAVE A SELF DEFENSE CASE YOU HAVE TO KILL THE PERSON THAT IS TRYING TO INJURE, ROB OR KILL YOU.

How fucking retarded are you? Do you actually think that you need to kill the criminal (justifiable homicide) in order to make it into a successful self defense case?

What about this?

>guy comes saying that he wants to kill you.
>you take your gun and shout at him that you will shoot him if he doesn't go away
>guy goes away

Case of defensive gun use without killing anyone.

Retard.

>>690382344
>analogy
Look it up

>>690382530
Do you protest the annual deaths by other means just as much? Honestly, "mass" shootings is media propaganda.

>>690380215
My graphic only showing civilised country (including US), not south America...

Why don't you wrote Irak statistics, Libya, Soalia...

>>690382388
>Make wait period 3 weeks
yeah, no.
and here's why;
>female is beaten by boyfriend/girlfriend/whatever
>takes hand to hand self defense classes
>doesn't help
>decides to get gun and go through training
>has to wait 3 fucking weeks plus training time before they can defend themselves
>all the while getting beaten/raped/whatever by someone they cannot avoid

>>690382428
"You gotta shoot someone for the gun to be effective!"
Do you possess the capability of thought, or do you just regurgitate opinions you've heard by people you wish you were. In many cases, the simple presence of a gun completley deescalates a situation. You don't have to shoot someone to stop them.

>>690382683
Art thou vexed brother?

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>>690374504
Me too. You're a fucking flog mate.

>>690379786
Pic related. Anyone with enough dodgy mates can still get the guns that weren't properly disposed of or that are 'lost' by police every year. African gang members love it because no one here is armed and defending yourself is illegal.

>>690382635
>only one type of shooting
>mass shooting

>>690382382
your denial is delicious
yes, 3.43 people
Wow, pat yourself on the back there amerifat. Not bad, right?
Who cares that it's 0.23 in Switzerland and 0.07 in Germany? (And similar numbers in all non-shithole countries in the world)

>>690376653
>mass shooting
>3 kills
kek

>>690382592
Nothing from the bill of rights you fucking mongoloid

There's only one argument for keeping the Second Amendment, and that argument is:

"Fuck Off, I like guns"

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>>690382180
You have just played yourself you moron.

>urr durr look at the proof that gun ownership means more homicide!

Then why does it show no correlation when you compare gun ownership with gun deaths and homicide rates?

The second amendment is outdated, and there should be restrictions on guns. It was created at the time when we were in fear of the British, and bears. Those are not issues anymore, we don't have to defend ourselves from the British, we don't have to defend against bears, and we especially don't have to defend against British bears. Also, guns back then took several minutes to reload, making their use as mass murder weapons inefficient. But now, with fully automatic weapons, the risks should be taken seriously.

>>690382789
African gang members love this simple trick in Australia. Click to find out why police hate it.

>>690382789

tldr, but that graphic is garbage. r = 0.1 is bullshit, not meaningful at all. if you don't know that, i'm sure all the text i skipped was bullshit too.

>>690382544
But see, that goes back to the point that without guns, humans will find other ways to hurt and kill. Let's say, for the sake of argument, all guns completely disappeared, never to be seen again. Would people with bad intentions not use other weapons to do what they want to do? How many of those comparable parts of the western world don't have stabbings or beatings?

>>690382888
>the wild autism rage

>>690382703

The only place you see shooting statistics like the U.S.A are, which has been pointed out, third world countries. Most civilized societies have far less gun violence then Murca.

>>690382909
If the second amendment only applies to the musket then the freedom of the press only applies to the printing press.

>>690382293
Yeah that what a lot of people said about Jim crow laws "Hey we don't want to take the freedom of black people we just want to make sure they cant work, relax, enjoy freedom, have a decent meal, look at me funny, have a voice, or watch a movie with me." "Its not like anyone wants to take there freedom away" some of you libtards may have a hard time with this but every major piece of anti firearms legislation was to prevent black men from getting guns. just read up on the 1968 gun control act. They did it because whites with guns were not the problem. GUN CONTROL IS AT ITS ROOT A WAY TO PREVENT BLACK MEN FROM GETTING ORGANIZED AND BEING A REAL THREAT TO WHITE SOCIETY.

>>690383002
>oh look I've just been BTFO, let me call the other guy an autist!

>>690372720

as far as america goes, theres no debate to be had

some nut case could shoot up capitol hill on bring your kids to work day and the only thing to happen would be AR-15 sales going through the roof

whether or not americans should have guns is besides the point, the fact is they have them, theyre not going away, theres no practical way to take them away, the economy couldnt suffer it, the people woudnt stand for it

>>690382789
Yeah but, no guns = no mass shooting

faggot

>>690382148
By civilised metric.

>>690383044
Not that guy faggot. Just laughing at you making a fool of yourself.

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If you don't support the 2A you are a homophobic bigot. Clearly you don't want the LGBT community to be able to protect themselves from prejudice and from those who literally gun them down in public. All queers should CC. Let's show this "religion of peace" we will not be stepped on any longer. WE ARE AMERICAN CITIZENS! OUR RIGHTS SHALL. NOT. BE. INFRINGED.

>>690382758
>Implying that this female is unaware that she can report that shit to the police

Are you even trying?

>>690383106
yeah tell that to france

>>690372720
Murder is already illegal
Attempted murder is already illegal
murder with a gun is illegal
attempted murder with a gun is illegal
injuring someone with a gun is illegal
hitting someone with a gun is illegal
waving a gun around in public is illegal
threatening to use a gun on someone is illegal

what new law exactly do you want to pass that is going to make these things more illegal? Or you'd prefer to just make things inconvenient for 360 million people in the hopes that the few thousand who have already decided to break the law might change tactics?

>>690382909
>we don't have to defend against bears
Not everyone lives in cluster fucked cities, you dumb shit, and there are more than just bears that will fucking kill you.

>>690383023
Have you also taken into consideration our nigger rate? Those are the ones committing the most murders.

>>690373988
except for the number of shootouts the bikies have had. yeah nah. youre a shit cunt

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>>690383156

>>690382888
>Then why does it show no correlation

this shitty picture shows no test statistic for correlation.

>>690383107
define "civilized"
>>690383154
>police
>useful in domestic violence cases ever
look, nothing beats self defense and in self defense nothing beats a gun

OP here and damn, the comments are coming in too fast for me to read them all and reply to the ones I have answers for! Good job on not going apeshit, people! There were a few trolls, but no one gave them...wait for it...ammunition! Haw! Anyway, I think I might go to bed. See you fags later!

politicians should have to give up ownership of weapons just to even run for office. then niggers for being black.
immigrants and their offspring for 3 generations just because obama is black

>>690383156
Sorry

no guns = low mass shootings rate

We don't have shootings as a sport over here like the americucks

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>>690383154
Because the police have such a good track record with domestic violence
Also, what is abuse mentality Alex?

>>690383273
It shows that homicide is a purely socio economic problem.

If the usual "gun ownership means more homicides and turning the country into a war zone" then we would see the countries with the highest gun ownership levels being the ones with the highest homicide and gun homicide rates.

Which doesn't happen.

>>690382827

"there is not a broadly accepted definition and uses a definition of a "public mass shooting" if four or more people"

> can't count

fucking cuck

>>690383315
Yeah, you guys prefer the increasingly popular sport of "immigrant rape"

>>690383245
Are you literally retarded?

Tell me how many people were killed, and don't bother if it was less than 5

We live in a free and open society. terrorism and acts of violence are the price we pay for that open society. I'm not willing to live in a police state for the illusion of safety. I don't own a gun but i'm with the gun crowd on this one. Even police states have terrorism.

>>690383032
I'm saying it has to do with effect, not the device itself. What you said is so inconceivably stupid, I don't even know how I am expected to reply. Like, the guns were a much smaller threat back then, the printing press wasn't a danger. Your reply is simply irrelevant.

>>690382117
"Background checks" are just weasel words for "denying certain people guns". And we know damned well those "certain people" will be the ones enforcing our freedom from tyranny.

>>690382999
Other places have issues, but just look at the occurrence of murder rates throughout the western world.... the US tops the charts by miles and to deny that the common nature of guns has anything to do this is to totally ignore the issue.

There are countries that have guns that have extremely low rates, but if you look at the statistics it is clear that the culture in the US is fucked up compared to these countries. It is almost like the US is the naughty kid on the block who cant be trusted to use the toy responsibly so the kid either has to learn to use it responsibly like the other kids (no sign of that happening) or have it taken away.

What bothers me about this argument is that everyone knows its a cultural issue, but no one ever addresses how to change the fundamental issue which is the culture of how guns as thought of in the US.

>>690383297
>look, nothing beats self defense and in self defense nothing beats a gun

incorrect in general, majorly incorrect in domestic violence cases. guns in the home, owned by either party, make the chances of DV victim being killed skyrocket. but again, america doesn't like facts, so tell me more about what you feel is true.

>>690383441
3 is a pretty big number tbh fam

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Violence is everywhere. Guns aren't the problem, people are. Theres no such thing as a source to violence. Its gonna happen everyday no matter what. Video games don't cause it, guns don't cause it, people do.

>>690372720
It: tiny dicked boys terrified of the world.

>>690382825
So tell us about those mass rapes in Germany again?

>>690383438

you said correlation. stats or gtfo

>>690383523
Shoot people who use guns I say

>>690383471
So when Madison was signing documents giving civilians express permission to own artillery, was that an April fools joke or...?

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>>690383523

>>690383297
>Beaten/raped daily in this senario
>Visible marks on this female's body
They are obligated to do something, at least temporarily, until she can get a gun.

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>>690382888
>proof that gun ownership means more homicide

Strawman much? In your autistic rage you haven't noticed that I made no such argument.
What I implied is that Americans have homicide rates on par with the shitholes of the world. That's a fact.
America has a serious problem with gun violence. I'm not proposing a solution or saying that reducing the number of guns will make things better.
The rest of the civilized world has figured this out somehow. Even in Switzerland, where the number of guns per capita is very high they have a substantially lower homicide rate. All I'm saying to Americans is "lol@you you fucking dumb shits". I'm not making an argument for or against guns. I don't give a fuck if Americans kill each other.

>>690383154
The Supreme Court has already ruled that the police are not constitutionally obligated to protect us.

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>>690382909
>implying I don't fear my own government's tyranny
>do Ferguson raiders or other riotets count as bears?

>>690383700
>I don't give a fuck if americans kill each other
>spending all this time showing that you DO care
try again

>>690383388
see
>>690383696

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>>690382935

>I don't like your argument so therefore it's invalid
Are you fat, a woman, gay or a combination?

Fact remains violent crime, assault and home invasions went UP after firearm sales were restricted.
Not banned, restricted.
People still buy and own guns and can still shoot cunts breaking into their house, but don't because they know they will go to jail if they protect their families.

>>690383696
yeah then the guy gets arrested and when gets gets out hes even more pissed and wanting to kill his old lady.

>>690383297
Civilized : country where you can walk safer without fear of guns everywhere. Country where problem are solved by police or army. Country where you can have a gun if you're hunter or pratice gun sports. Country without guns unless exceptions. (sorry 4 grammar, not english)

>>690383500

I didn't make the fucking number. It's the "definition" of a mass shooting.

>>690372720
pointless thread.
>all points for guns:
-muh rights
-muh safety

>all points against guns
-random people i barely care about are kill
-my land of faggots no have, so you should no have
-i are am man, can call police
-gun overpowered riot, plz nerf

>>690383491
You know what? Agreed. No one EVER talks about the need to change the culture. See >>690379023 about that. But what you're saying speaks to the gun rights movement. It's the people, not the tool. And as long as the fucked up people have the tool, the normal people also need the tool to defend themselves.

>>690383037
Exactly.

Also, if anyone bothers to look at the crime statistics in the U.S. by location, it's easy to see the highest concentration is in the ghetto centers. 53% of the countries violent crimes are done by >13% of the population, since so many black people end up involved in gangs and drug dealing. It's such a problem that the overall average for the country get shot (pun intended) through the roof.

Look at the areas outside of the major city centers that have gang problems, and the statistics rival all the "no-guns" countries' stats everyone likes to compare to so much.

I live in Tennesse. Literally everyone I know owns at least one gun, and there's MAYBE one or two incidents between people every 5 or so years. Home invasion is almost non-existent because 9 out of 10 houses you try to rob will get you shot.

Also, people are over looking another thing, that a large portion of people live in suburban and rural areas. The number one reason people around here gets a gun is still "protection", but they don't primarily mean protection from other people, it's for protection from all the wildlife since every other thing in the woods wants to fucking kill you.

>>690383932
By then she would have been able to acquire a gun, please pay attention to the ENTIRE argument, not just the most recent bits.

>>690383696
Yeah like he is obligated to do shit.

>>690383846
The government isnt trying to bring tyranny. They arent trying to take your guns. Think of it like auto accidents. The death rates used to be high, but through the help of seat belt laws, and safer cars, deaths have dropped exponentially. They arent trying to take away your cars, just trying to limit death. Same with guns.

>>690383988
stay man americuck, ill stay here and not get shot

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>>690383315

We also have a distinct absence of 'real niggas' and other dindus that make up a massive percentage of the firearm crime statistics.

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>>690372720

Why are you guys wasting your time with this?

I'm an European gun owner, I own a shit ton of guns and in my country it's common to own guns for various purposes.

You guys are arguing with people that:

>never saw a gun in their lives
>never touched a gun in their lives
>all their knowledge about guns comes from hollywood movies, video games and the media

These idiots have been brainwashed into believing that gun ownership is uncivilized, that it has something to do with death and misery and that only a gun ban can turn a country into some sort of utopia.

Hell, even my country which has almost 50 guns per 100 people, has a homicide rate lower than the rest of Europe and it's only slightly higher than the one from Japan.

You guys are wasting your time trying to debate ignorant people that think that guns are evil and bad.

It's purely an emotional debate against people that have no clue what they are talking about.

>>690384273
yea, i guess youre right, thats not america

>>690384127
My uncle beat my aunt's ass and got arrested and bailed out in a day. The law only keeps broke abusers at bay for the rest of the world that can afford bail the law doesn't do shit. so nice try man keep them shit arguments coming.

>>690384143
Unless entire police force are complete shit (which some are) then this hypothetical female would get some amount of help. Also, lets fucking improve the police system as well so they can be more helpful to people.

I think the current gun control measures are sufficient.

The anti-AR15 hype is fucking retarded. It's not a remarkable weapon. All you're going to achieve by banning it is removing a single affordable option for sport, defense and sometimes hunting.

Assault weapons aren't real.

>>690373988
Aussie detected. All your other crime rates have gone up.

>>690375309

There were shootings quite regularly (every 2-3 years) before the Port arthur massacre (1996)

As for OPs point of debate: I think it is ridiculous for a modern country to think it needs so many guns in its society. All the arguments from pro-guns that I've heard seem to be formulated in the delusional state that they've grown up with, e.g they make no sense to anyone who hasn't grown up with guns. Also, the argument that "its in the constitution" is not a valid point, that part of "the constitution" is not relevant in this day and age.

But in reality, the US is in too deep to go back now. There is no way gun control will ever work in the US at this late stage. Americans will just have to live with the fact that mass shootings are a part of their life from now on. Like some dude said, when it was accepted for children to be massacred, the argument is over.

There's no point even arguing about it anymore, I refuse to be shocked every time there is another mass shooting in the US. Nobody else should be shocked either; the country has collectively decided to make its bed this way, now they must lie in it.

>>690383900
>checked

Yeah, your logic is impeccable. There is no way I could not care about people dying in America and at the same time make fun of Americans for being fucking stupid.

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>>690384452
amer'cuh, aint dat grayt

>>690384080
For now thats true, my view has always been that I want to live in a society where people do not feel the need, the want or the desire to carry a weapon as they should feel safe walking the streets and in their homes without the need for one. I want the US to view guns the same way as somewhere like the UK where guns are totally legal, but no one actually wants one.

I accept that its a long and possibly impossible road, but thats where I want to get to and its going to take small steps.

However, I want society to start to accept the very simple concept that to start moving in that direction we all need to agree that less guns not more guns is the first step on the path, and the way to that is to start putting in steps to control firearms. It seems to be to be common sense... yet the gun guys will agree with my point, say that they all want to live in that society, but then flat out refuse to take the steps to get there. So we will be stuck here forever.

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>>690384257
Sure anon. Let's just ignore history.

>>690384462
Bail out is a stupid system designed to take advantage of the poor. We need to get rid of it. Criminals should be in jail.

The "right" you have doesn't apply today. It was written back when guns took 30 seconds to load. Today is different, now we have weapons that shoot many bullets per second. However, a baseball bat or a hunting rifle is fine for protecting yourself.

>>690384060
>random people i barely care about are kill

That's why nobody cares about 9/11, right? Oh wait..

>>690384526
>hurrrrrrr durrrr I'm better than gun owners

Faggot cunt

>>690384596
See
>>690384403

You have the typical case of knowing jack shit about guns. Sorry for being so blunt about it, but it's the truth.

My country has laxer gun laws than your, more guns per capita and a lower homicide rate.

How do you explain that?

Homicide and crime are SOCIAL PROBLEMS, not gun ownership problems.

>>690383106

If you have a viable watertight plan to get rid of every firearm in the entire country including the unregistered, 'lost,' and 'destroyed' ones along with all the ones owned by criminals, bikies and crooked police, please share it with us.

>>690384782
I own a shotgun as I live on a farm....

HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE SHOT BY POLICE?
in american you are far more likely to be shot by police than any other armed demographic. I will give up my guns when the cops and military give up theirs.

>>690384754
seriously. they dont. no american today does, and especially no european. now each and every american has to wait an extra hour before they can fly to a neighboring state. face it, no one today who claims they are moral are actually moral.

>>690384775

A valuable contribution to the argument.

>>690384821
well i mean

we dont hold school shooting competitions every week :(

>>690384103
>9 out of 10 houses you try to rob will get you shot

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but do you guys stay at home 24/7? I mean robbers typically steal shit from EMPTY houses...
My parents' apartment got robbed a while back and of course it happened while they were at work and nobody was at home. How could guns in any way help in this situation?

Or do you actually have robbers who invade peoples' houses while they are in them?

>>690384689
man you are the dumbest motherfuker on /b/ tonight.

>>690384932
So why haven't you killed someone with your shotgun?

If guns are the cause of crime, then surely you must be one of the causes, right?

Of course not. As a gun owner you should know better.

It's not the gun that is the problem, it's the society and culture.

>>690384596
I don't think it's refusal to take the steps, I think it's the fact that having less guns is not a possibility. How are you going to get rid of every gun there is, while simultaneously stopping more from being created? There's no way to un-invent something. As long as guns exist, SOMEONE will have one. And I'd rather not gamble on that someone being a person who wants to hurt other people.

>>690379768

In that case, the first amendment only applies to actual speech and news papers. Your phone, tech and everything is open to suppression not to include the fact that at that point nothing else in the Constitution is enforceable. You think politicians aren't going to pass bullshit laws and whatnot when there's not even a threat of force as repercussion?

>>690385004
Man, you are the dumbest motherfucker on /b/ tonight.

>>690383979
>I like to make my own definitions for words
If you are going to learn the english language, learn the rules. One of those rules is that you don't make up whatever bullshit definition you want for a word. I kinda thought this was a universal thing in language, but I guess fucking not.

>>690385072
The point I have made throughout this thread is that I want gun ownership to be totally legal but I want to be in a society where people do not feel the need to own a gun for defence, we should work towards a society where guns are tools and not a necessary item of defence. I do not get your point as we are saying the same bloody thing?

>>690385162
His definition fits the dictionary definition though.

>>690385296
You and me are both human. That's never going to happen.

>>690373988
Your retarded aussie..

Your population of your entire country is less then California and mostly white. Your argument is invalid.

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I love guns who gives a shit what some europoor Muslim cuck thinks. I want to start an arms drive for the homeless here in Boise. stay mad europoors no one cares that guns scare you.

>>690385296
>tools
>necessary items
we have locks almost religiously on our doors. you would have a point, maybe, if burglary or muggings never happened

>>690384988
Some places do have people home 24/7. My house is one, seeing as how I work night shift while the rest of my family does their thing during the day. Then even when a house IS empty, you got neighbors to worry about. Neighbors that can be (and have been) bros enough to shoot at a thief trying to break in next door.

>>690385415
explain?
you americucks still love your guns and mass murders, australians dont so we dont do the kills
dont be racist, das rood

>>690384979

Australia has more sports in schools and a culture of not being a soft cock.
If you get picked on it's because you're a loser, difference is here the losers will punch you in the head and call your mum a slut, instead of dying their hair black and listening to slipknot until they're so angry and sexually frustrated they need to fucking shoot people.

Cultural norms are a big factor here too, there are other countries with high rates of gun ownership and relaxed firearm laws and they don't have massacres because they're not culturally bankrupt and clinically retarded.

>>690385400
You just said its how your country is.... so why cant it happen in the US? It is not something that will happen overnight but you have to start somewhere.

>>690385162
Heu... it's not the dictionnary definition... You demand me my definition of civilized in this context, i give it to you. Ironie inside is priceless. I thought different level of reading was an universal concept...

Meanwhile we discuss about grammar, you dodge guns problems. Nice. Good luck 'MURICA.