That's because you're a normal functioning human being. Children are very commonly cute, that doesn't mean you want to fuck them.

>>689899512
Found the normie faggot who got here after 2010 and will NEVER be a member of this community.

>>689899512
This

>>689899512

She is not a child, I would guess her age to about 19 or 20. But still cute tho.

>>689899512
>Children
>menstruates
I see you've been brainwashed by feminists. So sad.

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Still cute.

>>689900108
Look at her face.
She's like 12 dude.

>>689900694
Nope, she might look 12, but she is a grown up proffesional dancer.

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>>689900667
>>689899421
at the age she was in these pictures, yes, she was more cute than sexy
she's definitely gone the other way lately though

>>689900870
I've lost interest

>>689900887
Her parents are the best

>>689900694
She's definitely an adult of 18 years or more. You don't seem to be old enough to have a handle on aging women. This site is for adults and I think you should leave.

>>689900887
I've DEFINITELY lost interest

>>689900870
16

>>689899421
how many guys do you reckon she's fucked? I mean besides her brother and dad.

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>>689900939
?

>>689901294
OK, but not a child

>>689900887
Why is she dressed like a dominatrix?

>>689901748
it's her night job

>>689901881
>in-n-out
>not five guys
Into the trash she goes.

>>689901571
I got pdf all day, you need one? My pockets are full.

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THE FUCK IS GOING ON HERE ?!

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that's fucking Jordyn Jones

>>689901294
still would fuck

>>689900887
Is this ms slevin?

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>>689902161
if she doesn't make mistakes then you'd have nothing to hate-fuck her for

>>689902668
no, it's jordan jones
THIS is ms slevin

>>689900420
this

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Superior

>>689902959
>if she doesn't make mistakes then you'd have nothing to hate-fuck her for
#wisdom

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>>689903137

>>689903137
>>689903196
You look-a-like-a maaaan

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>>689903315
Forgot pic

>>689903013
Who is she?

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>>689903013
>>689903547
fuckin lexee smith

>>689903404
fuckin old school

>>689903315
But those legs, thighs, and feet :3

>>689903906
>legs, thighs
>where the wings tho?

Friendly reminder. Let's keep this legal. I will be monitoring this thread and WON'T HESITATE to report any content I deem inappropriate.

You have been warned.

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this is thinly veiled CP begging thread

>>689904250
>le normie facebooker maymay xD

>>689903824
What is she known for besides being QT?

>>689899421
>>689900667
>>689900887
>>689901881
>>689902959
This is the kind of girl you hope never has to suffer the indignity of sleeping with a limp dick whiteboi.

>>689904250
> this b8 again

>>689904250
>i roll to Insert my tongue in your ear, old man.

>>689904250
What a fucking legend. You hear that guys we've got a fucking policeman mother fucker.

>>689904423
Definitely gonna get blacked

>>689900694
You should not be in charge of judging age. She is almost a grandma

>>689904569
She already is a coalburnet

>>689904565
it is my PATRIOTIC DUTY as an AMERICAN to uphold the law.

>>689900108
Ahahahaha idiot.

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>>689904417
pretty much that
she's a model/dancer who's worked with jordyn jones and chloe east
jordyn has been in a bunch of vanity music vids and chloe has a movie coming out soon

>>689904423
you people who aren't insecure don't have any reason to say this kind of shit, right?

>>689904686
You're trying too hard. Lurk for a couple years.

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She is a vapid self centered cunt.
Unlike Lia

>>689904825
>Lia "two years until I'm doing porn for coke" Johnson

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>>689904890

>>689904735
Obviously not.

>>689900667
Jo no tits

>>689900978
dumbass shes 16 look up jordyn jones and check the age

She has slutnose, that bulb-like nose which drives cunts into porn... LOOK AT MY TITS NOT AT M BULB NOSE.

Her teeth are fucked up, have to cap those. She'll be appearing @ RV shows, things like that, for the next thirty years.

Right now she's playing with sexuality, which makes everyone uncomfortable. No tits, no real clue what she's doing. HI I'M A LITTLE GIRL BUT GOLLY I'M A WOMAN AT THE SAME TIME TEE HEE LOOK AT MY TITS WAIT DON'T LOOK AT MY TITS you want to fuck me? NO YOU CAN'T FUCK ME

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>>689904735
>>689905029
whoops, missed a word
should have been
>you know people who aren't insecure don't have any reason to say this kind of shit, right?

>>689904983
she was best as a gangly teen IYAM but her current look definitely has a few things going for it

>>689905154
>eating bait like the dumb millennial shitbag you are

You're simply not intelligent enough to be here.

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>>689899421
Everyone knows what ur really saying is u find her more sexy than sick u pedo fuck

>>689899421
Go see a counsellor, you pedophile freak. I don't come to this website for this shit go take your perverted shit elsewhere fucking hell mate. May Christ help your damaged soul.

>>689905261
Sauce? I like her teeth and nose

MODS!!! GET IN HERE AND STOP THIS CHILD PORNOGRAPHY NOW OR I'LL REPORT YOU TO YOUR SUPERVISORS!!! MODS!!! GET IN HERE AND STOP THIS CHILD PORNOGRAPHY NOW OR I'LL REPORT YOU TO YOUR SUPERVISORS!!! MODS!!! GET IN HERE AND STOP THIS CHILD PORNOGRAPHY NOW OR I'LL REPORT YOU TO YOUR SUPERVISORS!!! MODS!!! GET IN HERE AND STOP THIS CHILD PORNOGRAPHY NOW OR I'LL REPORT YOU TO YOUR SUPERVISORS!!! MODS!!! GET IN HERE AND STOP THIS CHILD PORNOGRAPHY NOW OR I'LL REPORT YOU TO YOUR SUPERVISORS!!! MODS!!! GET IN HERE AND STOP THIS CHILD PORNOGRAPHY NOW OR I'LL REPORT YOU TO YOUR SUPERVISORS!!! MODS!!! GET IN HERE AND STOP THIS CHILD PORNOGRAPHY NOW OR I'LL REPORT YOU TO YOUR SUPERVISORS!!! MODS!!! GET IN HERE AND STOP THIS CHILD PORNOGRAPHY NOW OR I'LL REPORT YOU TO YOUR SUPERVISORS!!! MODS!!! GET IN HERE AND STOP THIS CHILD PORNOGRAPHY NOW OR I'LL REPORT YOU TO YOUR SUPERVISORS!!! MODS!!! GET IN HERE AND STOP THIS CHILD PORNOGRAPHY NOW OR I'LL REPORT YOU TO YOUR SUPERVISORS!!! MODS!!! GET IN HERE AND STOP THIS CHILD PORNOGRAPHY NOW OR I'LL REPORT YOU TO YOUR SUPERVISORS!!! MODS!!! GET IN HERE AND STOP THIS CHILD PORNOGRAPHY NOW OR I'LL REPORT YOU TO YOUR SUPERVISORS!!! MODS!!! GET IN HERE AND STOP THIS CHILD PORNOGRAPHY NOW OR I'LL REPORT YOU TO YOUR SUPERVISORS!!! MODS!!! GET IN HERE AND STOP THIS CHILD PORNOGRAPHY NOW OR I'LL REPORT YOU TO YOUR SUPERVISORS!!! MODS!!! GET IN HERE AND STOP THIS CHILD PORNOGRAPHY NOW OR I'LL REPORT YOU TO YOUR SUPERVISORS!!! MODS!!! GET IN HERE AND STOP THIS CHILD PORNOGRAPHY NOW OR I'LL REPORT YOU TO YOUR SUPERVISORS!!! MODS!!! GET IN HERE AND STOP THIS CHILD PORNOGRAPHY NOW OR I'LL REPORT YOU TO YOUR SUPERVISORS!!! MODS!!! GET IN HERE AND STOP THIS CHILD PORNOGRAPHY NOW OR I'LL REPORT YOU TO YOUR SUPERVISORS!!! MODS!!! GET IN HERE AND STOP THIS CHILD PORNOGRAPHY NOW OR I'LL REPORT YOU TO YOUR SUPERVISORS!!! MODS!!! GET IN HERE AND STOP THIS CHILD PORNOGRAPHY NOW OR I'LL REPORT YOU TO YOUR SUPERVISORS!!!

There, my job here is done.

>>689905376
>u pedo fuck
>pots nine-year-old

>>689905424
lol newfaf

>>689905487
being a faggot isn't a job retard

>>689905376
>image.jpg
Closet case detected.

>>689905551
>lelelel im gonna call that mid to late 20s girl a 9 year old im so randumb xD
>obvious troll post? nah hes a newfag!!111

Fucking summer

>>689905424
>>689905487
>>689905757
>le normie facebooker maymay xD

You're simply not intelligent enough to be using my site.

>>689905289
good job. you fell for the bait.

>>689905757
>takes the bait

>>689905999
>pretending is fun

>>689899421
She's a fan of Louis C.K., it seems

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>>689905424
surely you troll. op is hardly a pedo you cunt the twat is 16. in most normal, unrepressed, non-puritanical areas of the world she's fair fuckin game at 16. now gtfo cunt

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i guess i'll help you all

>>689899421
>>689900887
>>689900667

Spanishfag here (from Spain). I'm learning English, why have you wrote "more cute" instead of "cuter"? Plz help i like usa

>>689906025
>I was only pretending to be retarded

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>>689906194
calvin klein

and can yall niggers stop fagging up the place
this is supposed to be a thread about
ahem
well raised young ladies

>>689906289
He's saying that instead of finding her sexy he finds her cute

>>689906289
>Plz help i like usa
go fuck yourself mexicofag

>>689906373

I can tell the meaning. It's always like this? "I find her more fast than tall" (for example) instead of "faster than tall"??

thanks anon

>>689906554
No he's just trying to give a reason to post her pictures so people don't call him a pedo

>>689906262
That looks like mckayka maroney's sister, tayyrn

Don't stop now. I've edged four times so far.

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>>689906554
that case would be "she's faster than she is tall"
because those are objective measures rather than subjective

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>>689906792
tay maroney checking in

>>689906820
>>689906360
I would rape the absolute living fuck out of her.

>>689903137
>>689903196
what is her snapchat anyways?

>>689906897
I want to bury my face in that.

>>689904350
Your point is?

>3264x2448

What's up with the colossal images? No one has a monitor that's 3200 pixels wide. Sample the images down first.

>>689907109
we live in an age where 8k TV is widely available. grow up

>>689907109
>what are 4k monitors
You're poor and stupid.

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>>689907109
what, you can't do it yourself?
and what if you need to photoshop it?
or crop it or something?
there's a million reasons to have high quality over low quality

>>689905914
>not intelligent enough
>my site

Oh fuck off with your fedora, you fucking faggot

>>689907109
>No one has a monitor that's 3200 pixels wide
They're not very common but yes... 3200px wide images are going to start becoming more common, unless sites want stretched out blurry images.

>>689907369
>triggered because he's stupid and got here after 2010
Sorry you missed the boat. Your tears won't make you a member of this community.

>>689906985
Jordynjones11

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>>689907493
>thinks 2010 is a sensible cutoff

>>689907493
I'm not that guy you faggot
Kill yourself

>>689906897
Dawww. I hope she turns into a slut like her sister

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>>689907558
thank you kind sir here for your troubles

>>689907665
omg who is that?

>>689907665
I want to sniff that floor

>>689899421
>>689900667
>>689903013
>>689903824
>>689906262
>>689906897
>>689907744
NOW WE'RE TALKING fapfapfap

>>689904250
>>689904350
>>689905075
>>689905376
>>689905424
>>689905487
>>689906224
>>689906801
>>689907109
fuck you cockroaches

>>689907665
It's about the time that spam was curbed and the masses really started ignoring the fact they aren't welcome here. 2012 is when it became a lost cause and a parody of itself..
>>689907734
You are that guy, faggot. Kill yourself.

>>689907250
>4k monitor

You fell for the placebo, congrats

>>689908060
Explaining that something exists does not indicate that I own the thing. Try thinking before pressing submit next time, 90s kid.

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>>689907740
thing is, that pic is years old
no idea how she looks now

>>689907779
chlose east
model and dancer
movie out soon

>>689907888
I bet you want to lick her feet too.

>>689907950
thing is, old fags are drastically outnumbered by newfags now and it's virtually impossible to regain the old culture

>>689906373
>>689906820
Thank you anons :)

>>689906495
I'm from Spain, not Mexico

>>689899421
If she gets her period, biologically speaking, she's a satisfactory mate.

>>689908188
Yet you called the other guy poor for not owning one, when you don't either.

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>>689908217
this is becoming a very fine thread. keep it up

>>689908060
I did the sensible thing and bought a 4k tv.
When it's on, it emits so much fucking heat, so I never use it. Seriously the worst purchase ever, nobody should own one yet.

>>689906289
Because "more cute" is followed by "than"
Otherwise cuter would have been just fine.

>>689908340
Not owning one doesn't mean that I don't have the money for one and haven't shopped for them. I have no use for one. Seriously, stop responding. You're nowhere near on my level. Get a clue.

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>>689908258
spanish mexicans are just as mexican as aztec mexicans man, it's a global world now

>>689908060
>>689908544
can only imagine how much heat radiates from a 4k monitor

>>689908623
Is she old enough for kisses?

>>689908217
oh she would be so much fun to play with

>>689908623

I live in Spain man, not Mexico

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>>689908661
four thousand heats, obviously

>>689908900
IKR it would be so fun to go see a movie and take her to a soda shoppe afterwards and split a malt.

>>689908623
oh the joy I'm having now

>>689908913

Same shit my friend. Mexico and Spain are the same even tho Spain and Mexico are thousands of miles apart

>>689908623
i cant see her mons pubis

>>689901881
>dress like a whore
>expect being ignored by pedos

Kek

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>>689908870
yes mister eastwood

>>689908913
don't let anyone ever use your country of birth to deny you your inherent mexicanity

>>689909488
Can I stick my dick in her

>>689909488
fuck

>>689902161
>five guys
Are you fucking stupid?

>>689909488
this girl would convert any/all straight non pedos

>>689909488
Those are some exquisite fucking feet.

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Lets get the thread back on track shall we?

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>>689909589
no, you have to let her jack you off with her feet instead

>>689909634
>is from california
>falls for meme burgers
>implies other people are stupid
kek

>>689906360
>>689906820
Is that some weird shoop or drag queen tier make up?

>>689906289

Fuck you you are not even Mexifag. Go back to Belize cunt.

>>689909839
I'll clasp them together and fuck them

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>>689909839
THIS HAS GONE WAYYYY TOOO FAR

>>689909891
I was eating In-N-Out burgers since before you were born dude. Five guys is a shit tier burger joint.

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dubs and mods 404 this thread

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>>689910204

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>>689909896
crazy makeups

>>689909891

Enjoy being poor and not Californian bro

>>689909839
Is that Tay?

>>689910421
nay

>>689910179
>>689910339
>dude
>bro
>brah
>smash

>mfw californians try and pretend anyone from outside of their state thinks their uninformed opinions are valid

You're about as big a joke as texans at this point.

>>689910115
Mmmm those soft feet would feel so good. So would her thighs

>>689910339
>nb4 gay slaughter

MOrds Mords Mords

>>689910539
thats not mckayka's sister?

>>689910600
you cant reproduce by fucking feet and thighs. my dad said so

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>>689910421
it's chloe east you illiterate scumfuck

>>689910558

If you want to talk about it let it out. Your rage is clear and you seem to be on edge

You are hurt and afraid. Just let it out anon, stop projecting

>>689910755
google

>>689910558
But at least Texans have their personal liberty to be proud of.

>>689908217
Nnnnhh

>>689910763
But you will get AIDS and Die

>>689908994
I like that armpit

>>689910846
>regurgitates every armchair psychologist buzzword in existence so he can pretend he has a brain and is capable of emotionally affecting others
>fails to end sentences with periods because he went to inner city schools and his father was an absentee
kek

>>689910850
Sorry, I thought it was Tayrrn because I haven't seen her recently

>>689907011
Mm

>>689900000

>>689900420
>a biological process based on hormone levels is related to mental and emotional maturity.
>Girls as young as 8 can menstruate.
>"muh femnits h8"

>>689909488
omg.. my dick is crying

>>689911387
wait...somebody got quad balls and it was deleted? fuck's sake, man

>>689911111

>>689903013
fuck yea

>>689899512
yep, and that coming from a lolifag.
if you don't get a mental block even just trying to imagine kissing that on the lips, there's something wrong.

>>689911495
This
is
True

>>689911495
whats wrong about menstruating 8yo? its nature gurl. nature. its normal for males to be attracted to fertile females

>>689903013
Already got that was wallpaper

>>689911723
>>689911680

shut up old hag. keep pretending that

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>>689899421
>face spots
>misaligned teeth
>twelve years old

>>689911495
>mental and emotional maturity
>muh cult of childhood mentality
>muh willingness to be infantilized by governments who no longer wish to be bound by civic contract
>muh inability to understand the long history of humanity marrying and reproducing during early adolescence

You're an adult when you're capable of reproducing. If you believe otherwise, you've been hoodwinked. You shouldn't be allowed to vote.

>>689909808
I love her sexy toes omfg

>>689905154
What!? I guess that means she's suddenly not hot as fuck.

>>689911038

Nowthisiswhaticalledgy.jpg

>>689911731
Menstruation also does not imply fertility. Especially not when it has literally just begun. That young, the chances af a child surviving inside another child are astronomically low. It is in fact not advantageous or natural in any way for males to be attracted to females whose pregnancy could result in both the mother an baby's death. In addition, a very young female has drastically poor mothering, nurturing and protection abilities (being still in need of these things herself) so it is further bullshit to say that this attraction is "natural".

>>689912171
Pointing out that people who attend inner city schools aren't intelligent isn't edgy. It's a factual representation of the outcomes of wealth disparity and its impact on educational funding.

>>689912401
you sound like you need to go back

to reddit

>>689899421
Did somebody say that her cloud got hacked last night, or did I dream that?

>>689911929
Let's put it like that: until a certain age, every human is responsability of his parents, and of society as a whole. If the society you live in doesn't like you being attracted to children, it's your own damn business, because you, as a destabilizing member, are a danger to society and thus you need to be dealt with.

can't we just enjoy a thread without retards arguing over who is allowed to be attracted to who?

>>689912401
> the chances af a child surviving inside another child are astronomically low
>youngest birth mother is 5yo. live healthy until death 70 years later
>theres more younger-than-16yo-mothers documented and undocumented since the dawn of homo sapiens
yep, a feminist brainwasher

>>689912694
>Let's put it like that
You're not even a native English speaker. Your thoughts and opinions are worthless. Go find your own chan. You don't belong here. Understand, Pepe?

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>>689912654
would have been a few weeks ago iirc
ask reddit for particulars
haven't seen anything show up from the event tho

>>689912654
Must've been a dream because that shit would be everywhere by now. Her insta was hacked a little while back tho

>>689904423
You need not worry inflicting yourself upon her.

>>689912856
go back to Facebook

>>689912694
>look mommy!
>i'm a dumb statist! xD
Back to facebook, non-thinker.

>>689912889
Mmm I wanna lick those legs up and down

>>689911929
You are genuinely a fucking moron. Are yo not aware that mental and emotional maturity are actual real things? Is your memory of being adolescent that fucking poor?
>cult of childhood mentality
Did anyone tell you that attaching an arbitrary, disparaging label to a concept does not in fact validate it, or add anything to an argument?
And holy shit, you are giving me "iz teh govment". You are the kind of complete oxygen-thief that blames everything he isn't happy about (like not getting to fuck kids and teenagers) on the government.
This long history you speak of is only in documented cases. Documented cases occur when thy are noteworthy (almost always as a result af a power agreement) where one side effectively sells their child as a sex slave to gain power and position. This is not a "long history" but instead a common occurrence in circles of power throughout history.

>>689912879
pointing out one extreme case does not make you right.

>some guy got his head blasted to shit by a shotgun and survived
>this has happened loads of times

when compared to the amount of times that fucking kills people, the stats are kinda one-sided.

>>689903906
>>689904156
Get it? Like a chicken?

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Belindaaaaaa

>>689913112
>dumbfuck still trying to push his thoughtless facebook liberla "logic" after it's already been decided that he's been getting rekt this entire thread
But, yeah, you continuing to talk is going to convince everyone you totally weren't raised by a single mother and have never played catch with your dad.

>>689913393
im still looking for her videos

>>689913350
F*ck. I forgot most people call what i call legs drumsticks...so I'm the retard...whoa

>>689913550
As am I good sir. Can't find shot tho

>>689912974
I don't even have a facebook. leReddit would have made more sense. You're just throwing out websites now. Go back 2 tumblr, and suck on your gender fluid friends cock.

>>689913441
How many loads that face taken?

>>689913644
>I don't even have a facebook
Sure you don't, kid. Sure you don't.

>>689913550
>>689913621
Hee hee 8-)

>>689913448
Yeah because posting converse views in a pedo (or pedo-denial) populated thread will not perturb sphincters.
Liberal logic is a stupid thing and I in no way subscribe to it, despite my disagreements with you about fucking children.

>>689913788
Magic kingdom onion.

>>689913848
>pedo
We're discussing women who menstruate (post-pubesent adults). If you can't be trusted to even understand the definitions of the words you use, how could you ever be trusted to have a valid opinion? Don't bother replying again, libtard.

>>689913441
Jerking off

>>689914178
no, we're discussing whether Jordyn Jones is sexy or not. shut up whiteknight

>>689914178
Yes we are discussing females who menstruate, and I am calling them children (which they are at early stages) and you are calling them post-pubescent "adults" to justify your unnatural sexual attraction to them.

>>689913788
Give onion now

>>689914680
shut up second whiteknight

>>689914573
Oh no you're not. Calling the police, the fbi, the nsa, the cyber police, hillary clinton, and PETA right now.

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I'd take jj's toe in my ass

>>689914599
>whiteknight
You're just as dumb as the other guy who doesn't know what words mean.
>>689914680
>I am calling them children (which they are at early stages)
But this is wrong, no matter what your statist urges tell you.

>inb4 another irrelevant reply from a brainwashed feminist

Just watch. It's about to happen. They can't stand being proven wrong.

>>689913788
Link

>>689909488
Please sir, can i order, moar||sauce||name of this hebe-kami?

>>689911294
Sauce?

>>689915003
i dont see any difference between whiteknight and feminazi so why not? im literally holding a Dictionary of 4chan Words And Meanings here

>>689915317
>i
>im
No one likes a nigger, child.

>it's too hard to talk to women my own age that are mature enough to know I'm a nothing going nowhere, menstruation age is old enough!

>>689915310
Magical Kingdom. you need to pass some alligator-filled lakes to get there

This thread suddenly is lacking pics

>>689904250
So you like to lurk in threads that have pics of young girls, just waiting for the cp.

Put your dick away before you hit the report button.

>>689915459
>didn't link to the post he was replying to >>689915003 because that would be an indication (as if we needed more) that I won

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>>689915165

>>689915459
>I'm a nothing going nowhere

You're a what? There's a name for what you are, it's called a NEET. Many pedos are NEETS but not all NEETS are pedos.

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>>689915566
because of Trumpknights and liberal pundits

>>689915648
Mmm take it baby

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>>689915669
nigga soundin like the SAT

>>689915648
the fuck is she trying to do...?

>>689899421
trying to separate beauty and cuteness is like trying to say Michael Jackson white and mj black were different people. There is a pinnacle of female human physical aesthetics and i dont see it in adulthood i see it at 14-16. Just opinion though.

>>689915646
I didn't read past the first few posts until I realized what you pathetic nerds are trying to do again.

You're talking about a time when the most qualified and alpha males got the most fertile and desirable females. You'll never be that, so stop just wanting to relive one aspect of expressing our primal desires

>>689915648
wow nice
ayy imao that's hypnotic

>>689915669
Shut up NEET. All NEETs are pedos, but not all pedos are NEETs

>>689915648
it's like she's possessed by a robot simulating gymnastics

God I'm edging so hard

>>689916080
I want to posses her with my dick if you know what I mean.

>>689916035
Stop anon! Your reddit tier personal attacks are totally destroying my argument! Oh, wait...

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>>689916151

>>>ITT: Pedos pretend to be non-pedo redditors who will never belong on this site<<<

>>689908623
Kek your American education system is as shitty as they say

>>689916231
I'm highlighting the fact that you're only concentrating on the one aspect of how we suppress our animalistic desires because you can take advantage of that. You can't just pick and choose one part so you can finally have a chance to get your dick wet.

Crying about my personal attacks on you hurting your feelings won't get you anywhere here, sorry bout your safe space

>>689916378
>belonging to this site means thinking and being the exact same

>>689916378
>>>ITT: Pedos pretend to be non-pedo redditors who will never belong to redditors on this site<<<

>>689916515
You're highlighting the fact that you were raised by a single mother.

>>689916567
Now you're getting it, reddit pal. Your implication that's a bad thing means you should probably go find a community you actually fit into instead of forcing an already established one to facilitate your childish beliefs. Understand, stupid?

>>689916850
No, I was implying that you are newfag and will always think like a newfag. simple, stupid?