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>>686727643

>>686728440
Le government nutrition pyramid from 30+ years ago

Must be true

>>686727643
I'm a vegetarian and I just can't do without cheese, anon. I tried, I can't

>>686728674
Same here

>>686728674
and the vegan "cheese" is just pure fat, no thanks

>>686727643
meat tastes good

>>686728674
Then go vegan except for cheese.
Its a shame that you have developed an addiction.

-OP

>>686727643
From what I see, being vegan makes you a miserable retard that demands everybody else be miserable retards with you, and eventually your starved bodies can't even feed your fucking children.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1371172/French-vegan-couple-face-jail-child-neglect-baby-died-vitamin-deficiency.html

>>686727643
Because becoming violently ill when you accidentally ingest beef stock doesn't make you the healthiest person in the room, it makes you the faggiest.

>>686728923
Have you ever eaten raw meat?
It tastes disgusting and it would make you sick.
We are not meant to eat that.

Meat tastes good because of seasoning otherwise known as plants.

Humans dont have protein or fat receptors on their tongues.

-OP

>>686729023
then I'm not vegan, just a lacto-vegetarian. I already don't eat eggs and avoid honey.

>>686729163
>>686729023
Shame your a cum grizzling faggot

-Anonymous

>>686729093
Anecdotes are not evidence.

Also the link referenced is a single isolated incident.
There are thousands of children in poor health that are not vegan,

The child was not deficient because he was vegan but because his parents were dumb. The same can happen to non vegan children.

-OP

>>686729214
Then hopefully you can eventually cut it out of your diet.

-OP

>>686729143
What?

-OP

>>686729143
kek'd

Meat is delicious i get stew meat raw and fresh and eat it while i shop. I don't get sick.

>>686729330
Yes, ignore my refutation of your claims and make "x" insult. This just proves that you are wrong and are willfully ignorant.

-OP

>>686729479
You are not a human then

-OP

>>686727643
because i like meat. if i die at 35 or 100 years old it doesn't matter I'll die eventually might as well enjoy hamburgers every once in a while.

i could get ran over, stabbed, shot, poisoned, hit by lightning or anything in the world so i enjoy every day. i hardly limit myself. I'm not some 200 pound fat ass because I'm not suicidal but you probably get what i mean

>>686729163
Sushi is rare fish and it tastes good
Yolk in fried egg is mostly uncooked and delicious
Really rare steak/steak tartare is partially uncooked and is delicious

I like meat. You can't help that, and you can't wait around for me to change.

There are systems and modes in place that, if you chose to focus on, you could figure out ways to change so that they don't cause

1. more meat to be consumed/wasted than otherwise, and

2. less people to understand that meat is murder than otherwise.


A hypothetical example: a government agency that regulates slaughterhouses is bribed by a big meat company in order to make it difficult for that meat company's competitors to compete. This meat company is now a monopoly, thanks to government help, and this leads to more abuses.

Behind the bullshit, conservatives have ideas which are indispensable to understanding the world. The same could be said of progressives.

>>686729644
Yes as long as meat is handled properly and your body is used to it you can eat raw meat safely. It's easier to digest.

>>686727643
Because the army doesn't let rabbits join up.

>>686729769
But why anon? You could live so much longer, achieve so much more, do so much more, become so much more.

You are destroying our planet, our morals and our species.

This attitude will not allow us to progress as a species.

-OP

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>>686727643

>>686729769
I'm 200 pounds of solid muscle. Weight has nothing to do with being a fat ass it's more of how much exercise you do or don't get.

>>686729993
I suck a literally unreal amount of dicks, this is how all vegans get their protein
-OP

>>686729163
>Humans dont have protein or fat receptors on their tongues
Glutamate receptors. A taste generally associated with foods rich in protein.

>>686729893
So you think its a good idea to waste land and a huge amount of our resources, so we can commit mass murder.

So we can "get used to" eating a food that is not meant for us, that destroys our planet and our health just because you think it tastes good?

-OP

>>686729841
What are you trying to say, your argument isn't clear?

-OP

Because most vegams treat it as a religion. Because most vegans cannot accept the dietary choices of others. Because some even delude themselves to the point where they believe humans are biologically herbivore, despite all of the evidence to the contrary. Because vegans do not understand that too much of anything is bad for you, and meat in meant to be eaten in moderation.

>>686729893
>>686729479

That is the worst thing I've heard all day.

I'm a parasitology student. I would love to examine your intestines when you die. Not saying this habit will kill you soon or anything, because you're kinda correct; you won't ever seem sick.

You'll just have happy parasites living inside you. And you'll be a little less happy than you would have been without those parasites. But you may certainly live the rest of your life without knowing they are there. Doctors don't give two fucks about parasites unless they are put on the spot about it. Which is exactly the point; society prefers not to ask.

>>686729993
morals? meh. species? meh. planet? well a little guilty but meh.

progress? I'll die achieving nothing and being nothing. I'm bad but not completely terrible. i won't murder, rape, or steal anything worth more than $20.

so many things determine a persons life span. their mentality, genetics, eating habits, and sheer luck. all of these are not so great so ......meh.

>>686729993
Eating meat helps the environment. The amout of land it would take to sustain every person on earth if they only ate plants, would wipe out several thousand species and destroy almost all our oxygen producing rain forest a cow can feed a lot of people where a head of lettuce feeds few goes bad fast , and whould have to be shipped great distances more often burning more fossil fuels.

>>686727643
Because I love the taste of dead animal flesh.

>>686730380
So you choose to destroy your health and the planet and promote extreme cruelty because some people treat it as a religion?

Vegans don't accept your dietary choices because we are trying to help you.
We want to stop wasting our resources (land, water, power, food) and destroying our health and causing extreme cruelty.

We want you to change for a good cause. Please give the evidence that shows humans are not herbivores, because I disagree.


>Its good to have heroin in moderation
>I hate god because people treat it as a religion

Your logic is so flawed and ridiculous.

-OP

>>686730103
well exercise isn't something i like to do but my dad is an intense guy. he's a boxer trainer who works at a gym so he makes me every once in a while exercise so i'm not a completely flabby

>>686730580
We have potential for so many great things but you choose to accept mediocrity, why?

-OP

>>686730796
Yeah just stay active, weight doesn't really mean a whole lot until you get to around the 250 mark, then you need to change your habits.

>>686730926
Being vegan doesn't make you capable of great things, but it does seem to give vegans the impression that it does.

>>686730378

My grammar was wrong.

>There are systems and modes in place which, if...

fixed.


You are trying to get meat-eaters to change. I've got no problem with that tactic, but I am saying that there are systems in place which lead to more meat-eating and animal-killing than there would be without these systems. Not only that, but these systems are bad for all of us; they are the result of unethical decisions such as conspiracy/bribery.

>>686730644
Either you are a troll or you are completely retarded.

First of all 60% of our oxygen comes from algae in the ocean.

Secondly animal agriculture is the number 1 cause of pollution.

Thirdly. Agriculture uses approximately 65 million square kilometers of land.
About 15 million is for plants and 50 million for animals.
50% of all the crops grown on that 15 million square kilometers is fed to the animals.
So WE COULD SURVIVE ON 15 MILLION SQUARE KM. AND THAT 50 MILLION OTHER SQUARE KM COULD BE USED FOR SOMETHING USEFUL.

Animal agriculture produces so much animal waste, its the number one cause of rain forest destruction. It promotes the growth of pathogens and just to give you an idea of water consumption 1 hamburger = about 2 months worth of showering.

It takes about 20kg of plant food to make 1kg of meat.

THE EVIDENCE IS DEMONSTRABLE YOU ARE WRONG 100%

-OP

>>686730645
You are sick

-OP

>>686731120
No being vegan does not make you great. But what I mean to say is that if we were all vegan we could progress so much faster as a species. We would have so much more land and resources. We could eliminate world hunger and the concept of a "third world country"

-OP

>>686730792
I actually understand why vegans have these views. If you honestly see animals as equal to humans, then I can see why it would be frustrating that others don't. Still, the holier-than-thou attitude makes you people unbearable to deal with. That's really the reason it's treated like a religion by most vegans, and why vegans are the subject of so much ridicule. People wouldn't give a shit if you just shut the fuck up and accept that eating is not and will not ever be illegal.

I'm also not even going to bother with the herbivore thing other than a few points, because believing humans are herbivores to fit your rhetoric is more ridiculous than any belief I could hold. I'm all for treating animals with less cruelty, but disregarding science and biology is where I draw the line.

So, I'll just give you these:
>Almost all other primates are omnivores
>Anatomically, we share many commonalities with predatorial animals
>Human digestional tracks bear nearly no resemblance to prey animals
>Human digestional tracks contain enzymes and chemicals specifically for breaking down meat, chemicals that do not exist in prey animals

>>686730926
Beacuse all of us will fade into oblivion at some point no matter who you are or what you did. It doesn't make any difference what you think you did, because there isn't a God and even if there was he doesn't seem terribly interested in what's going on here, no one will remember you and we will all suffer and end to a pointless existence.

>>686730926
because I'm egotistical and have no ambition. mediocrity is okay i like it. why desire more if i don't even have a reason to have it.

>>686731607
Look even if you forget about ethics.

Vegan-ism is still better for your health and for the planet

>>686727643
>Why are you not vegan?

Because BBQ ribs.

>>686731526
I would like to see how being vegan would solve any of those problems. I think you are hopelessly optimistic that even ideal circumstances the human race would ever be capable of uniting for any reason.

>>686731679
>>686731661
that is sad to hear but at least you guys are honest.

-OP

Because we need nutrients to function.

>>686731772
>Better for health
Debatable

But believing that is fine, just be happy knowing that you yourself is happy, healthy, and environmentally friendly. No need to be a dietary nazi.

>>686727643
Because animals are made of meat

>>686731854
Do a bit of research on how much resources animal agriculture consumes and how much it pollutes the earth.
So much land, water, electricity, food and materials are wasted for it and for what, when we eat animal products it has negative affects on our health?

You may be right about my optimism, but I want us to change. I believe eventually it will happen, just like women's rights, and blacks.

-OP

>>686731411
I like my meat cooked medium rare. Nice and bloody.

I go deer hunting...and I've killed a few deer and enjoyed earing the meat. Occasionally, wild turkey as well. Fish when I catch them.

Nothing wrong with eating dead animal flesh. What's sick is some bleeding-heart beta faggot telling other people how to live their lives.

>>686731889
I have seen some of the darker things that a human being can experience. I learned two things. One the media will never capture war like they should and two is that all of it is pointless. It doesn't matter who's side your on or whatever your ideal is. It get to a point where you fight because you have to, not for any other reason than becuause it becomes who you are. Call me a Nihlist if you'd like but it's true.

>>686732101
Humans are made of meat also. So do you support cannibalism?

-OP

>>686731772
Your 'organic vegan' food uses the bones and blood of the meat industry as fertiliser to grow its crops.

You're a fucking hypocrite...

Eating disorder, I cannot bring myself to eat most of the vegetables. If I was to eat only vegan foods I would die because of vitamin loss because there are like 4 vegetables (not including seasonings you fuck) that I can eat. That's why I'm not a vegan.

>>686732220
Yes.
Otherwise you're just picking on the Chickens

Because vitamin deficiencies, you fucking dumbass.

>>686727643
Because on a keto diet it's difficult as fuck.
I really only eat chicken, only beef when I'm low on iron.

>>686727643
I am.

>>686732246
I never said anything about "organic" food.

and fertilizing techniques vary from farm to farm, but if you did go vegan it would make it more expensive for them to use animal fertilizers until eventually it is no longer used.

>>686732220
Why the fuck not

>>686732417
What about all of the insects killed during industrial farming practices?

Fuck the Insects ... Is that the vegan mentality?

>>686732285
Your an isolated case and your case is unfortunate but for most people it is possible.

You can still supplement your diet.

-OP

>>686732339
Thanks

-OP

>>686732538
Or they could just eat meat you retarded fuck nut

>>686732537
No that is not the vegan mentality. But it would be difficult with modern agricultural practices to avoid killing insects.
If we did all go vegan we could new farming practices that avoid killing insects.

-OP

>>686729163
1 raw beef tastes amazing, and 2 you wouldnt get sick unless you are weak

>>686732538
I'd rather not live my life popping pills to fucking survive. I like my chicken and hell knows that I wouldn't kill for a good ol' Chicago BBQ. Sure I could eat fucking carrots and... well peanut butter I guess (is peanut butter vegan) but then I'd just be popping pills for everything else, I don't eat enough as is. So this is not a life style that benefits me. However, I believe in this cause. I think one day humans can go completely vegan, I don't think it'll benefit culture, but I think it is the best for the environment and the survival of our species. Or we can just 3D print meat, hoping for that.

>>686732820
Even I can troll better than that.

-OP

>>686732537
Vegans are taking advantage of some of the most helpless organisms ever created - plants.

You think that just because they don't have sensory organs it's okay to cut them up and shove them in your mouth? You're still killing them, you sick fucks. They can't even fucking move on their own, for Christ's sake. Oh, and way to fucking destroy the creatures that give us oxygen! Fuck the environment, right!?

Fucking vegans...

>>686732583
You're welcome, sexy.

>>686732911
I agree that living off supplements is not a good life, yet you will be far healthier than eating animal products because you will not risk your self to cardiovascular disease, diabetes, cancer and all cause mortality. Which are all caused by animal products.

-OP

>>686733175
Mm... I think I'll take that over the malnurtiion I will certainly have. Oh, and the lack of variety of my diet would drive me insane. I can't eat a meal three days in a row without growing sick of it for a very long time. I'd be like those fuckers with the IVs to survive. I'll risk the diabetes.

>>686732721
That isn't possible without wiping out the insects.

Admit it, your vegan 'all life is speshal' ethos is hypocritical unachievable ideological nonsense, incompatible with the true nature of the world.

Oh, and killing yourself right now would really help the planet too... So, you know....

>>686733067
60% of our oxygen comes from the ocean.

Plants do not have a nervous system, they feel no pain, have no thoughts or emotions.
We require food to sustain our life.

How the fuck can you be a plants rights activist but not care about actual living sentient beings like cows and chickens?

And assuming you really did care about plants your still better off being vegan because it takes 20kg of plant food to make 1kg of meat.

You will last about a week on 20kg of plant food but not even a day on 1kg of meat.

So your argument is completely flawed and incorrect. You are so fucking stupid and you can't even troll properly.

-OP

>>686733175
How about those heart palpitations from lack of b12, lack of body composition from lack of animal proteins, or the lack of creatine that harms muscle and brain functioning, or that lack of cholesterol that decreases testosterone?

>>686733433
>Oh, and killing yourself right now would really help the planet too... So, you know....

Yes it would, but it would help the planet a lot more in your case since you are not vegan. I choose to stay alive so I can make more people vegan and that will benefit the planet more than me killing myself.

It is possible to not kill the insects, it will be tedious however. I find it strange that you are a insect rights activist yet choose to rape, kill, torture and imprison animals in the hundreds of billions.

-OP

>>686733476
I'm just showing you that's hypocritical... No matter what you fucking do, you are going to harm one organism or another. That's how the transfer of energy works for animals. Unless you can fucking photosynthesize, and until humans can shove their brains into solar powered robot bodies, you are no exception.

>>686733476
So you want to kill all of those cows/pigs/chickens then?
Make them extinct?

They were bred through centuries of selective breeding, and could not support such numbers in the wild without severely damaging the environment.

Your plan for s meat free world would result in the deaths of basically all of the farm yard animals you claim to care about.
Hypocritical vegan cunt

>>686733175
Sure they are fucking retard

>>686733619
>Creatine
Your body produces creatine, if you want to have extreme amounts take supplements.

>Hurr durr i dont want to have to take supplements
Isnt it strange how all the non vegans who supposedly have higher creatine levels are the highest consumers of creatine supplements and anyway creatine supplements are healthier than eating meat which gives you diabetes, heart disease and cancer and destroys the planet.


>MUH B12
B12 is naturally found in soil and water but because of modern agricultural practices and the fact that water is treated you do not get b12 like that.

The animals have the same problem with b12 and farmers give animals b12 supplements. So the animals are being supplemented.

infact the human body has bacteria which produce b12 but it may not be enough.
In that case take a supplement and if you have something against supplements read what I said earlier about creatine supplements.

-OP

>>686731374

1. Yep you're correct I'll give you that, though if we just used algae for our oxygen we'd fuck the ecosystem.

2. animals* are the number one cause of pollution. Farm animals are one of numerous cases. In fact in farms you can manage numbers and track the environmental impact; before humans got their hands on them, large agricultural origin species (e.g. Bison in the USA) moved in numbers that far outstretch the numbers maintained by agriculture & the natural environment combined - thus arguably having a larger effect on the environment. You need to remember that if we shut down cattle farming and left animals as they were before we farmed animals (we would need to breed wild cattle back in in some countries) there would likely be at LEAST the same amount of wild cattle effecting the environment.

3. Your numbers are off, in some countries yes it is majority meat-yield however in others (think the rice paddies in Asia) there is a huge majority of plant-based yield. Also - even if this were the case, the pesticides, water diversion and environmental management that is needed to grow plants in most areas of the world has HUGE impacts on the environment, local and otherwise.
This is not to consider that you require a larger sq/km of plant life per person to sustain them, compared to a combined omnivorous diet, due to dietary needs.
This also leads on to another issue, the TYPES of plants needed to sustain us, such as iron rich plants etc. is unnatural, due to us having to make up for the losses from dairy and meats by eating more of certain plants, we would need to grow much more of these than would ever naturally occur, again causing major damage to local and worldwide environments.

Animal waste is actually extremely enriching for the environment if managed correctly, and the process of digesting and depositing waster is actually used by a vast number of plants to disperse and help grow their seeds.

>>686733875
Yes you are correct, however we can stop killing sentient beings. Life like plants and bacteria is ok to kill

>>686733697
So you're against 'insect rights' but for animal rights?!

I care less about insects than I do about animals need for meat... Which I don't really care about, other than the quality in how they taste.
My world view is completely consistent and doesn't require any mental gymnastics to try and paper over the inconsistencies.

Mkay you retarded hypocrite

>>686734097
Yes they are in fact.

-OP

>>686734008
What. I don't want to kill any animals.

Are you that fucking stupid, if animal agriculture stops we will stop breeding these animals so there will be no deaths.
Maybe a small population of them will live in the free space that we got from destroying the 50 million square kilometers used by animal agriculture.

-OP

>>686729163
Nigger you know that thing called the appendix? It's useless now but back in the day when we didn't cook our food the appendix would help us digest raw meats. But over the years we started to cook our food,rendering the appendix completely worthless.

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>>686727643
>>686729163

>Implying cooking food to release calories wasn't a huge step forward for humans.
>Implying we aren't naturally omnivorous creatures.
>Implying any other omnivorous creature shouldn't eat meat, and that we are somehow not animals.
>Implying that shit isn't tasty as fuck, and that's all the reason I need.
>Implying I can't say 'name one reason you should crush insects underfoot - protip: you can't'. Or any other stupid shit you do that isn't absolutely necessary.

Whoops. Sorry about your logic, fascist. I think I'll go have some bacon and eggs in your honor.

>>686734487
bait me harder

-OP

>>686734152
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1691485/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14600563
http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=8207518
As for b12, you wanna tell me why most vegans have a b12 deficiency then?

>>686734456
>I don't want to kill them
>a small number will survive

Pick one you retarded cunt

>>686734302
No, I do not want to unnecessarily harm insects as well. But animals are being oppressed so much right now and that is my priority.

-OP

>>686734167
To also continue;
The relationship between animal and plant is very important; yes it takes a lot of plant (inedible to humans I might add) to raise an animal, however this is how the ecosystem NEEDS to work, even if you took humans out of the picture.

Do we need to breed them unfairly such as battery farms? No.
In the sheer numbers we have just so we can eat meat every day (unhealthy) or to have fast food on tap (look at kfc waste..)? No.
Should we be prioritizing cattle farms over the forests etc.? No.

Should we be maintaining a mixed diet of meat and veg/fruit - using our resources/intelligence to minimize the amount needed and grow/ship appropriate products from their natural grown environments? Yes.

Eat meat and veg, don't over do it, and don't treat either animals OR plants with disrespect when farming them - they are the reason you're alive.

Also on an environmental note - this planet has a continually varying system in extremes, every X thousand years it completes a swap from almost 0 ice cap to practically a frozen planet. Yes we may be impacting this a degree, but to think that, with all the gases previously produced in history from larger natural herds and beasts, volcanoes and geysers, and lower oxygen levels in the atmosphere, we as humans are severely changing how the world turns - is quite frankly self-absorbed. We could die off tomorrow and the planet would be fine but from all the evidence would still melt down the ice caps, then inevitably, form them again some thousands of years down the line.

>>686734732
I clearly meant that, they could live in the wild.

-OP

>>686734658

Nice logical rebuttal, faggot. You going to try, or are you giving up already? You started this asinine thread where you think you can convert people into being miserable and unhealthy. Stand behind it.

>>686728674
yep. same.

>>686734456
What do you think happens to a species of it stops breeding?
It goes extinct

Fucking hell, are all vegans as retarded as you?
You know that fats are essential to healthy brain growth... You need some steak in your life

>>686734259
It's been proven that plants are sentient.
There have been studies that show electrical signals and scents to warn other plants, are emitted when someone comes near a plant with a cutting device or begins damaging plant life.
They also emit different electrical pulses and speed up growth and exposure (e.g. opening petals and leafs) when they are DISPLAYED watering cans etc. after having been previously 'taught' that these will result in watering and positive treatment.

Sounds mental I know - but just one to think on. Also, for vegans/vegetarians, who constantly complain at humans feeling they can take lives, what gives you the right, as a human being, a random natural species like any other, to dictate who should live and who should die?

>>686734902
DHA and EPA.

I suggest we stop breeding them for the purpose of killing them and let them live in the wild

>>686734744
Is that really your priority?
What is your take on population control?

>>686734837
And when these 'wild' completely domesticated animals desalinate the local flora... What then?

'Fuck the insects, fuck the plants, fuck the animals, and fuck humans..... I don't like the taste of meat' - vegan dipshit

>>686734861
I gave a shitty response because I have other people to respond to and I never said those things and most of them are wrong.

-OP

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>>686727643
Not a single reason? Well, no, there are some. Meat's a fine source of protein and nutrients. It tastes good. Meat's inexpensive. You don't look like a faggy cunt when going out to lunch with your mates if you eat meat, since you won't be minging on about the lack of soy/tofu options.

If anything, I've seen little evidence for veganism to be anything more than virtue signalling. "I'm so healthy! I don't hurt animals!" Uh-huh. I'm sure your just the picture of health, and all from just plant matter. Don't worry, I didn't notice the array of vitamin supplements and such you keep. And, yeah, those poor animals. Just think, if we stopped eating them, they'd all go extinct, seeing as they can't survive naturally any more. Great, if they're all dead, then humans can't torture them, right?

So, now I have to ask, why should I be a vegan? I like meat and dairy for their tastes and I can easily achieve and maintain a very healthy lifestyle through being responsible in my eating and exercising regularly. Please supply me with a real reason why, give me one example of an aspect of veganism that is more beneficial than my current diet.

Remember, "You'll feel better" and fictional "gains" are not answers.

>>686735157
*desimate

Fuck the fucking iPhone autocorrect man

>>686735143
We could sustain 15 billion if we are all vegan

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>>686727643
Because my autistic readings are still very much on the charts

>>686729993
Were destroying the planet? YOU'RE FUCKING EATING IT YOU STUPID NIGGER!

>>686735399
Lost

>>686735311
not without killing billions of insects.

Do you not care about the lives of insects?

>>686727643
BECAUSE OF THIS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2pNx6kfcGs

>>686735311
What type of faggotry statistics is that? You fucking retard the earth will end by then.

>>686735225
You will stop the number one cause of pollution and waste of resources.

You will reduce your intake of cholesterol, animal hormones and saturated fat.

Thus reducing the risk of cancer, diabetes, cardiovascular disease and all cause mortality.

and you are stopping extreme cruelty

>>686735311
The lack of veganism is arguably not even the predominating reason for why we have hunger in this world. But that's going off on a tangent.

The population won't just stop at 15 billion. In fact, getting to 15 billion will require many, many animals to die due to their being displaced from their homes.
So what then?

>>686735537
The fucking 20's are calling OP

They want their caner back

>>686735536
Actually we could see that number by the end of the century...
Best estimates say population levels will average out at around 11billion

>>686727643
i dont want everything i eat to taste like pure shit

>>686733476
>not survive a day with 1 kg meat? U really OP?
>implying that plants cannot express pain, they express pain but in form that we cannot sense

>>686735607
AM I THE ONLY ONE THAT REALIZES THE FUCKING SUN WILL IMPLODE AND DIE BEFORE THAT?!?!

>>686735713
THE SUN WILL IMPLODE BY THEN!

>>686727643
Funny that you replied to everyone else but not this guy: >>686731607

>>686735537
>reduced risk
Your risk is reduced from 0.00005 to 0.00001 ...so fuckng what?
If it means I can enjoy a bacon sandwich I'll take that 'risk'

The risk of being punched in the face is exponentially higher if you're a vegan

>>686733476
You are aware right that your comparison with meat to plant survival is flawed?
you stated:
>And assuming you really did care about plants your still better off being vegan because it takes 20kg of plant food to make 1kg of meat.

Then said:
>You will last about a week on 20kg of plant food but not even a day on 1kg of meat.

This makes no logical or scientific sense.
WE are meat.
If it takes 20Kg plant to make 1Kg meat, then it surely will take a SHIT TON of plants to sustain us? Look at the animals you go on about for the examples:
Grazing animals that are vegan? - Graze ALL DAY to sustain.
Predatory animals that are only carnivorous? - One kill can last a week or two.

You argument is actually proving that, if we could advance to survive solely on killing and eating animals, it would take less resource.

>>686734167
1&2.Maybe it would pollute the earth still, but not as much, but we dont know until we do it.
But certainly it will not use as much land, water, food, electricity and materials.

3. Yes growing plants does impact the earth, not as much as raising animals and we can reduce our impacts with better farming techniques.
Your point about iron and plants is false. Currently we have enough of those plants for all of the humans if we stopped feeding them to the animals

>>686734658
That wasn't bait you just have no comeback...

>>686735875
You're a retard.
Estimates are that our sun is about half way through its life cycle...probably another 4billion years.
We could easily see 15billion by the end of century, providing global stability is able to cope.

>>686735514
Yeah and this would have a knock-on effect to the animals due to that thing called the food chain that vegans are so determined to ignore.. so.. by proxy you would probably eradicate more species than the meat-eating individuals.. nice one OP.. GG..

>>686736225
Why even bother with the response.

>>686733476
Plants are organisms, you are a organism. No matter what you must sacrifice life in order to live yourself.

>>686735809
yes i am OP.

How can you survive a day with (lets be generous) 1000 calories. Eventually your body will shutdown, it can only take malnutrition for so long

>>686734487
>fucking told

I'm now cooking some meat and I'll eat it slowly while re reading this post

>>686735926
No its significantly higher and can be up to 70% lower chance, but it all depends on how much you eat of x and if you exercise or not.

>>686736225
How but not enjoying a fucking burger? I'm sorry not everyone wants to live a pitiful existence. And you didn't talk about the fucking earth exploding because of the sun.

>>686735537
>Implying that if you eat meat, you will 100% fucking die of cancer, cardiovascular disease, and diabetes.
>Then maybe your wife and kids will leave you
>Your dog will be raped by niggers
>Your fucking house will burn down
>And your kids will grow up to become the next Heir of the übermensch and burn 6 million planet loving vegans

Why not be a vegan?
Because I enjoy meat. After working out, I even crave meat. Even once a month, my girlfriend gets meat cravings as she's a significant bleeder during a certain... She'll order steaks even more rare than I eat at these times and only that will return her to feeling normal. But I digress.
Now, we were born enjoying meat. Who are you to hold it against someone for being born to a certain predilection? Are you someone that thinks being homosexual is a choice?
Some other thoughts that come to mind are the intelligence of the species and survivability.
Just take a look at nature. The vast majority of species that prey on other species are significantly more capable of problem solving skills. Squid, dolphins, wolves, big cats, birds of prey, and chimpanzees. The most intelligent species in their ecosystems are all carnivores or capable carnivores. Most likely due to the communication required to coordinate hunts, or just the necessity to survive as an individual.
Speaking of survival again... as a vegan, have you ever tried to sustain yourself away from the modern conveniences of civilization to provide you your chosen vegan diet? On one's own in the wilderness... without animal proteins, a person will most likely die of malnutrition. What WAS a choice, IS a necessity without modernity.
Now, as to the moral high ground most vegans like to proselytize from. Meat is murder right? Well, are plants not alive? Life is life. And you're still taking a life in the end result. Plants communicate with each other, they have sexual organs and reproduce with each other. There are some plants that even require a mate. If a plant is damaged they form a scab/scar-like covering of the wound so they can heal. In order to do this they have to sense an injury. THIS MEANS PLANTS FEEL PAIN. Vegans only feel better about themselves because they can't understand plants. There is no moral high ground in choosing to be vegan.

>>686736042
>Predatory animals that are only carnivorous? - One kill can last a week or two.

One kill is usually at least 2/3 of the predators body weight.

and you confused my point. My point is that instead of wasting the food and feeding it to the animals, we eat it directly

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>>686727643
I like meat.

>>686736445
Right..70% lower, than the base level chance of developing a cancer.

But your chance of getting cancer is not 100%.
What is the base level chance?

0.00005 to 0.00001 is a 20% reduction

Go on..do the math retard.
What is the average likelihood of developing a meat ingestion related cancer?
It's fucking tiny. Which is why we're not all dropping dead of cancer.

You disingenuous cock-knocker

>>686735537
1. No you won't. If we stop eating meat then a. the cattle growing naturally such as bison will become humongous in number (we can see this from history/archaeology) and b. we would need to increase the process for plants to sustain ourselves because, with us being meat, we would take more plants than meat to sustain ourselves - thus using more factories, tractors etc. etc.

2. and also decrease a load of other necessary shit, and increase things you wouldn't if you ate like the omnivore you are etc. etc. i mean this argument is silly - as an evolved omnivorous creature, sticking solely to anything will be bad.

3. Basically the same as 2. - also reduce fight against other issues and increase risk of some. Also don't put cancer that's stupid, science EVERYWHERE has shown it has practically fuck all to do with what you eat. Cancer is mutated cells, these are increased in risk by certain chemicals (mostly man-made or from the bowels of the planet and have nothing to do with food sources) and no study has properly found anything else 100% effecting it - hence the news always saying "X gives you cancer!".

4. Well you're increasing cruelty to plants and insects, the knock-on effect being huge damage to the food chain and actually a really pro and effective way of being cruel to the planet, your average meat-eater wouldn't even have thought it! genius!... But no aside from that issue, WE DO NOT NEED TO BE CRUEL TO ANIMALS TO EAT MEAT.
This fucks me off.
If you guys spent like 10% of the effort you do going "herdurrr dont eat meatttt! hurrr!" on reforming laws on animal cruelty in relation to agriculture, there would be immense change by now.

>>686736616
You bring up a good point that most of us are raised non vegans, so it is normal to us. I too was raised non vegan, but I realised at a young age through research that this was a bad thing.

People do not know how bad it is to not be vegan as they are born into it, just as it is with religion, they are lied to by their parents.

>Plants have no nervous system

>Speaking of survival again... as a vegan, have you ever tried to sustain yourself away from the modern conveniences of civilization to provide you your chosen vegan diet?

Why would I do that? In that case I would have to eat ANYTHING to survive and I would most likely die anyway along with any other human being in that situation.

-OP

Everyone in this thread is retarded.

Veganism is better to understand if you compare it to fossil fuels. Just like fossil fuels, animal agriculture is (reportedly) more so responsible for climate change than any other industry.

In the case of fossil fuel, there's a general consensus among people (in my experiences anyways) that changing to renewable energy sources is generally a good idea. Sustainability is seen as a positive thing with the only people having an issue with it being those who have economic interests in fossil fuels.

Animal Ag is the same story. Yes, in the past and even now in some parts of the world animal agriculture is absolutely necessary for survival. Cool. In most parts of North America though, it's completely unnecessary. Humans are arguably one of the most adaptable species ever, I don't see why some people think it's such a stretch to live plant based, especially with the variety of plants available to us.

The whole "life is sacred" and "what about the torture" is all just subjective bullshit. You'll never get anywhere discussing that. The bottom line is that going vegan is the most effective way to cut down on your carbon footprint and maybe make the human race a little bit more sustainable.

What's the vegan solution to domesticated livestock suddenly not being used for food?

>>686737007
actually retard, 0.0005 to 0.00001 represents an 80% decrease....
Maths fail

>>686737345
That's what I meant

>>686735537
I assume you mean in the form of methane caused by cows and other such farm animals, yes? Oh, well, beside the fact that the "number one" cause of pollution is CO2 emitted by humans, I could easily argue for just getting rid of cows and just having chicken and fish, since they don't really shit or fart all that much.

"Reduce Risk" - "By wearing shiny tape, you are at reduced risk of getting hit by a car at night." Big whoop. I may not develop angina, but I'm at a heightened risk of malnutrition.

"Risk of cancer, etc." Again, same argument. Still at a heighten risk of malnutrition. Further, diabetes and such can be prevented with regular exercise and a balanced diet, one that includes meat. If I become vegan, will I never have to exercise again, since I'll be so terribly healthy?

"Animal cruelty" ---I'll stop you there, I don't care. Feelings are irrelevant. Being given an emotional high-horse is not a benefit.

>>686737239
> plants dont have nervous systems
http://www.naturalhistorymag.com/features/152208/do-plants-have-brains
Shut the fuck up.

>>686737013
1. We have enough plants to sustain all 7 billion people now but we feed 50% of them to animals.

2.Saturated fat and cholesterol are found in dangerously high doses in animal products,

3.Cancer does have to do with what you eat.
IGF-1 is a cancer promoting hormone found in meat, same as heme iron.
Are you saying I can eat asbestos?

4. There is no cruelty to plants as they have no nervous system.

You suggest that you can care for animals and eat them.
So does that mean I can love babies while I eat babies?

>>686734152
I think creatine levels are skewed in that people who take creatine supplements are generally athletes and lifters, you know, people who aren't such beta faggots and who actually eat meat

>>686737307

there are only so many of them because we're breeding so many of them. Stop breeding so fucking many. Keep enough for generally unavoidable necessities (ingredients for medicines) and for the parts of the population that have medical need for animal products.

What about all of the micro-organisms that live on the plants that are consumed by vegans?

Veganism = murder

>>686737263
My main reason is not ethics, it is health, pollution and the waste of resources.

You are absolutely correct when you say in the past being an omnivore was necessary, But now it harms your health and the planet so go vegan.

>>686736616
Not OP, but what?
>Are you someone that thinks being homosexual is a choice?
Not relevant to the topic at hand. Bad bait.
>Who are you to hold meat-eating against someone for being born to a certain predilection?
Being raised to do x immoral behavior, becoming aware of immortality of x behavior, and then saying "who are you to judge" does not make x behavior moral.
>listing intelligent animals that eat meat
Correlation does not equal causation.
>What was a choice is a necessity without modernity.
Who tf cares? This is the modern era. We are capable of living without meat due to supplements, so that argument is irrelevant.
>plants feel pain
Under what definition?

>>686727643
I like meat

>>686737654
Dude read the link, they have similar reactions as if they have a nervous system. Its not labeled the same but functions nearly the same. Stop acting like you know what you're talking about.

>>686737745
You didn't give a solution. What are you going to do about all those animals when they aren't going to be used as food

>>686737745
>unavoidable necessities

You mean Bacon?!

>>686734473
[citation needed]

SORRY GUYS OP HERE MY FAMILY HAS ARRIVED AT MY HOUSE SO I WILL NOT BE ABLE TO REPLY.

I MAY MAKE A THREAD LATER

>>686737654
Gee, with those statistics, you'd think all meat eaters would be fucking dead by now.. hmm strange

>>686737923
Solution: stop breeding 90% of them. Send them to slaughter, sell the meat as usual. The issue isn't that we're eating meat it's the amount of animals we're raising.

>>686736054
I agree we shouldn't necessarily use the methods we use now.
We should have a lot more free-roaming animals we feed from (and should eat LESS meat)

But letting them go on their merry way without one of the most important predators evolved in the modern era (us) keeping their numbers down - they will pollute more as their numbers swell, will decimate entire regions of plants as they graze. hunting is natural (battery farming is not)

The amount of plants needed to sustain us, given we are further up the food chain, is immense - not sure if you fully understand the chain and the energy to species ratios etc.
We need much more land to dedicate to plants to do this.

I feel you missed my point, iron was one example but mainly I mean that, if the entire population went vegan, the amount of plants of certain type (to provide the vitamins needed.) would be too large to just grow in their natural habitat, thus we would need to grow them elsewhere.
if we do this then we cause catastrophic damage to local ecosystems and eventually the planet.

Your decisions, and the "don't know until we try it" attitude, would have scientifically proven god awful impacts to the planet. Is what we do now right/perfect? Fuck no. We aren't efficient enough and we treat the animals like shit, it's wrong.
But would just going vegan across the planet help? No - you're doing something unnatural, with the most prominent species on the planet, in order to... help nature?.. that's not what would happen.

it's that holier than thou attitude people complain about, and it will cause horrible, horrible things to happen to our planet.

People said they knew what they were doing when they decided to put species of plants and animals in other countries to "help their environment" when natural species struggled, or when they saw a boom in certain animal/insect - and they were like you, full of good intentions for nature - to this day those ecosystems have not recovered.

>>686738058
Peice of shit, avoiding the link that proves you fucking wrong faggot.

>>686738055
nig nog it's 8th grade health. Are you dumb?

>>686737822
>harms your health

So I live until 80 instead of 90...so fucking what...those will be the worst 'forget my name/shit myself in a care home' years id rather not have, if it means a life with delicious bacon

I am a huge fucking faggot.

-OP

>>686727643
Yeah there's no reason except the fact there was a study recently that linked all veggie/fruit diets with causing certain types of cancer. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/03/29/long-term-vegetarian-diet-changes-human-dna-raising-risk-of-canc/

Also I like my fucking meat and cheese so you can cock off.

>>686736335
As it would on 20Kg of say.. grass. This is the plant we feed animals (amongst others we cannot eat.)

OP, out of curiosity, what is the point you're trying to make?
>meat eating is bad
>meat eating is bad, but the real problem is the lack of humane treatment in the meat industry

>>686738204
The appendix was actually used for the digestion of grass, you fucking retard...which is why we don't need it anymore

>>686737976
actually just lactose, gelatin and magnesium stearate

hurr bacon gud kekekek

>>686727643
because animals are stupid faggots and have no right to live unless we say so.

Also, if you're trying to save the world, it seems meat-eating isn't the problem: humans are. If meat-eating causes hunger, and hunger naturally culls part of the population, doesn't that help non-livestock animals?

>>686738352
Bacon may not be a necessity to you...but a bacon sandwich is pretty fucking sans bacon

>>686727643
my brother is a vegan but i cant find it in me to go vegan/vegetarian. if i did though it would be because of the environmental impact of meat rather than health concerns

>>686736733
Yes, but then one kill around 2/3 our body weight (a cow is much more..) would sustain US for so long.. I know that's not how it works but if we're boiling it down to the base level that's the general gist.

Yes but if we eat it directly WE need more (food chain and the way energy is passed on - google some food chain/energy science i cba).
And not only that, but the food we feed the animals is not edible by us, the animal is.

If 20Kg non edible food = 1kg edible meat and we decide to not eat the meat, we are wasting 21Kg of sustenance, the 1 of meat and 20 of plant we can't eat, and instead need to make way in the environment to grow a separate, edible, 20Kg of another, edible plant.

because i fucking love meat and you anorexic faggots can't change my views.

>>686738574
The environment hates you and is trying to kill you...eventually it will succeed, no matter what you do

>>686737345
Lol it is a fail but his point is still valid even with your correct maths..

bruhh are you forgetting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek_YI1j8puc

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This is why

>>686738349
Are you this fucking retarded? Why the fuck do you think we get appendicitis?

>>686738701
thats not what i meant, i mean the meat industry is just vastly inefficient in terms of the ratio of caloric output vs. resources consumed, which causes massive energy consumption and greenhouse gas emissions

>>686727643

Animals are tasty.

You:0
Me:1

>>686738817
Ummm..infection.

Why do YOU think we get appendicitis?

>>686738349
False, it was for bacteria. Its too small for the digestion if grass. Cows use four stomachs to digest that shit.

i'm not sure if advocating for veganism/vegetarianism would be very helpful since stopping meat consumption cold turkey (pun intended) would be very difficult to do across a majority of the population. something more realistic might be to support eating LESS meat

>>686738817
He doesnt know shit.

Normally, the appendix sits in the lower right abdomen. The function of the appendix is unknown. One theory is that the appendix acts as a storehouse for good bacteria, “rebooting” the digestive system after diarrheal illnesses. Other experts believe the appendix is just a useless remnant from our evolutionary past.

>>686738981
>too small for digestion if grass

It used to be bigger - duh!

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Vegans for health reasons are dumb, 2% milk is gainz maker material and chicken/fish is so cash. If you do it for "muh morals" than I guess its fine, do you I guess, but if youbtry and push it on me with that "better than u" shit fuck off.

It seems to me that this thread has been summarized as such:

OP:
>the meat industry is inhumane
>eating meat is unnecessary due to supplements

Meat-eaters:
>humans were born meat-eaters and are incapable of change
>meat tastes delicious
>B-BUT PLANTS FEEL PAIN

This thread is shit.

OP you're great. Keep up the good work. Vegan 4eva m80s

>>686738975
My mistake I meant "did"

It use to be an epidemic because of no raw meat.

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>>686739314

>>686739150
Wrong, you're making shit up without evidence. Its for bacteria, thats the closest our research has come and even then thats only a theory, the human race doesnt know everything and isnt as smart as it wants to believe.

>>686739280
>meat tastes delicious

They do have a salient point though

You don't see us trying to recreate vegan dishes out of meat

>>686739150
Yeah one appendix is the same size as 4 cow stomachs.

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>>686727643
Becouse this.

>>686727643
I don't want to take pills to stay healthy, isn't that a sign that veganism isn't quite right like anorexia?

>>686739583
Its as big as OPs wiener.

>>686737654
1. Cool. Except we don't. A huge portion of plant life animals feed on is not the plants humans can consume.
I live backed on to farm land - the cows get some feed and predominantly moved field to field to eat the grass. So what you're saying is 7 billion people can survive on grass?

2. Yep and if you only ingest plants you are malnourished of some vitamins and also would get dangerously high levels of other, unless using supplements which require an energy using process to create OR supplemental plants in your diet which require land to grow.

3. "Insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1) is a hormone produced in the liver and body tissues of mammals. One important role for IGF-1 is to promote cell growth and division, this is important for normal growth and development." also "bovine IGF-1 is identical to human IGF-1"
So yeah; and even if it was negative - so we lower the amount of beef we have, I've said this all along.
And no when I said what you eat has little to do with cancer, I mean in the edible sense. If you eat asbestos then you're fucked. But in the same respect do you want me to find all the plants that would kill you if eaten?

4. Moving on.. Think this has been nicely answered by many now - don't act like you know what you're talking about. You're appalling me now. Like genuinely disgusting. You claim you care for creatures but you act towards plants like those in the medieval era did towards animals. They said animals couldn't feel pain and were not sentient, because they knew no better. now you are saying it about plants because you don't know better. Look it up and stop assuming your plant cruelty does not exist. Also a note with this - when we kill an animal it dies then we eat it, when you cut up a plant for a salad.. it's still alive when you're eating it. Arguably worse. So if it's ethics that's the issue it doesn't really stand up.

>>686734861
>taking the bait this intensely

>>686739501
I eat meat, and I grant that the taste of meat can't be replicated in all vegan dishes. But I struggle with the morality argument. Regardless of whether it's natural to take supplements or not, the ability to forgo a certain type of pleasure to stop a death of a sentient being seems like the only moral choice.

>>686737654
Ok so imagine more cows eating our grass.

>>686739491
No you retarded fuck nugget...you half read what ever article told you that.
That is just one reason why you should avoid removing the appendix.
But comparing our physiology with extant primates, THEY use it for digesting grass...ours has become vestigial...that's why we don't eat high cullulose food stuffs like grass or hay

>>686727643
grass taste like shite

>>686739583
Cows eat exclusively grass.
Primates are omnivores.

Think before you post you retarded faggot

>>686737822
It only harms our planet and our health because we are not progressing it. Our farming methods are GENERALLY just grandiose/industrial versions of methods designed over 1000 years ago. We need to improve, more environmentally friendly methods, animals not filled with chemical crap, free roaming etc. etc. and generally yes eat LESS meat. People have things like beef every day, potentially multiple times. It's shocking for you and the environments, but so is eating the same calories worth of veg. it creates either malnutrition or damages to environment to provide the space to grow the sheer amount needed. We need a rethink not a ban.

>>686735123
Kek

>>686727643
Op please tell me how the fuck veganism helps anything. Tell me exactly what veganism has done other than create a group of people who are particularly annoying at parties and dinners.

because vegan food tastes like shit

>>686740252
day kil all der veggitables, innit.

The pig you spared by being vegan must be real happy being in a different meal as it was going to be eaten eventually.

>>686740177
It's 4 inches now it couldn't have been bigger then 4 fucking cow stomachs back when we used it to eat raw meat.

>>686740074
Its used for the immune system not the digestive system, fucking christ, i dont "half" read shit. You havent posted a single article proving your point so fuck off with your nonsense.

>>686740005
>moral
Morality is subjective faggot

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I like the taste of meat and not tofu.

>>686740610
It helps with digestion, but its more for combating harmful bacteria and micro-organisms within the stomach, or atleasts thats what it us to do before it could kill us.

>>686740005
This

>>686740651
I'll bite.
If morality is subjective, that makes my reasoning all the more valid, as I see that hurting or causing the death of a sentient being for the reward of gustatory gratification is immoral. Your view is irrelevant.

>>686740074
The cecum is a pouch-like structure of the colon and the appendix is near the junction of the small intestine and the large intestine and has abundant infection-fighting lymphoid cells, which suggests it plays a role in the immune system.

Just to prove my point and not to spout bullshit like you.

>>686739280
I'll try to re-sumarrise for those more objective than a fellow vegan...

OP:
>The meat industry is inhumane
>Cattle = bad for environment
>We can kill plants and stuff but not nice animals
>We can supplement to avoid eating meat
>Meat give you cancer

Meat eaters:
>Yep the meat industry is inhumane
- some say fix, some say who cares.
>Cattle would exist anyway, tons of plant farms = bad for the environment.
>ethics doesn't work as plants have been proven in the modern era to feel in a similar way to animals - we can't kill any if we don't want to hurt anything.
>Plants give you cancer


Ooo how about.. we jointly work together to:
- lower the amount of meat eaten (accepted by objective science as the most healthy natural option)
To lower the amount thus needed and so impact in that sense.
- to have more naturally treated animals, free roaming no chemicals etc.
- to increase the amount of fruit/veg in diet to make up for lowering of meat.
- to look in to better ways to farm.
- to potentially replace beef cattle with other meats and only leave natural herds alive (culling occasionally as a special treat and keeping the population and environment in check)

And most of all - if you DO decide to be all plant or all meat; leave the fuck alone. let people live the life with their choices don't force a ban on something not necessary to ban, from either end of the spectrum.

>>686729563
There is no argument to make against you. You aren't superior for being vegetarian. Stop thinking that you are

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FUCK YOU, RYAN

>>686741239
I'm not vegan.
Also, you're right. OP should have put up a trigger warning before starting this thread so people threatened by unorthodox viewpoints could go back to their safespaces.

I just realized that i'm a huge faggot for trying to force other people to become vegans.
I'm going to hang myself now.

-OP

>>686740610
I'm not saying it has no immune function, but its origin is gastrointestinal. Many vestigial components of our evolutionary past have morphed into new physiology. It has long been established that the appendix is the evolution of the cecum found in all herbivores.

Deny evolution all you want retard. Genealogy disagrees with you

>>686741720
good riddance. I fucking hate climbers like you, Ryan.

>>686741052
Then YOU be a fucking vegan, and shut the fuck up telling others how to live... Your morality is no more 'moral' than mine.

>>686728860
More like water, oils, starch, salt, seasonings and dyes. But actual cheese isn't just milk, because what's milk made of? Basically water (88%), carbs, fat, sugar, some protein, minerals, hormones, pus etc.

So it's nearly the same thing, just artificially recreated.

>>686740005
OK look. Killing another living creature for the sake of ones own existence is fine an not immoral in any way. I grew up on a cattle farm as a kid, I have raised steer from bottle to butcher (and I mean literally executing the same animal I hand fed with a bottle as a calf). I took no pleasure in killing the beast whose sole purpose in life was to die but if I did not, all the time/money/energy invested into it goes yo waste and our freezer is empty for the winter. I have lived off the land by hunting (which I do enjoy) but I take no pleasure in that animals suffering. If you have lived as I have, you have a much greater respect for both life and death. I have no qualms with vegans or whatever you would call the polar opposite, but if you haven't actually had to kill an animal to survive you don't really know what its like.

>>686741793
>doesnt prove a single point
>expects others to believe them
Never denied evolution one bit, infact i was going with it. "Before it killed us" read between the lines.

So what's the biggest insect a vegan is cool with eating - given that eating them is unavoidable

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>getting this triggered
When did I tell others how to live? I simply stated that I thought there is a moral argument to veganism that I thought was convincing.
>your morality a shit

>>686742411
See >>686742204

>>686742411
>implying eating animals is immoral
Guess you and humanity aren't going to get along

>>686742520
Morals are just a social structure to keep people in line but in the end people have no morals or in certain situations they throw them away and only use them when its a convenience to them.

>>686742520
Humanity can't stand to hear about a viewpoint contradictory to that held by the masses? Oh, man, I'm in a world of hurt!

>>686742740
You haven't yet made a convincing argument as to why eating animals is immoral.
The world as we know it is proof that it is categorically not immoral.

>>686742915
He hasnt proved anything the entire thread, pay attention or fall for b8.

>>686742204
>>686742515
I believe you're correct in saying that such a lifestyle gives more of an appreciation to life or death, and back then, giving up said-lifestyle would have been obscenely impractical.

But that lifestyle is now no longer your only option. Even if you're predisposed to a certain lifestyle, does that make your actions right?

>>686742915
>The world as we know it is proof that it is categorically not immoral.
Appeal to majority, anyone? Argumentum ad populum? Give me a break.

>>686727643
Because I really like meat?

Because I'm not a fucking faggot.

>>686727643
Steak
Bacon
Fried Chicken
Need I say more!?!?

>>686743137
Morality is the subjective framework of rules that society abides by...it is entirely subject to 'majority rule'
If the majority say that kicking the fuck out of vegans is morally right, then so be it

>>686742915
Read:
>I struggle with the morality argument
>the ability to forgo a certain type of pleasure to stop a death of a sentient being seems like the only moral choice
I don't give a shit if it's not convincing to you. I stated that I struggled with it. Not you. Me.

>>686743561
Still haven't provided an argument as to why eating animals is morally wrong.
Your morality is out of kilter with the overwhelmingly vast majority of human society...that actually makes you immoral

>>686729796
This