>militia

>well-regulated

It's fine, you know? It's part of what sets America apart, and we should be as proud of it as we are of the first ammendment.
However.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with passing smart laws to help keep guns out of the wrong hands. Things like a 5 year waiting period for anyone that has been recently removed from the terrorist watch list, or people on no-fly lists.
It's not as though the constitution or the language of the amendments are absolute. The supreme court has already decided this. If you want a simple example, it was made illegal to shout "fire" falsely in a theatre, clearly against the first ammendment, right?

>>690948351
>>690948532
what is this? are you failing to understand context here? what if I said that not all speech is "free speech"?

>>690947675
w/o the 2nd, there would be no other amendments

>>690948696
lol, shut up. Take your "things my republican uncle emailed me" memes and go. We're all so grateful that your semi automatic rifle scares the federal government and preserves our right to call you an idiot.

The 2nd amendment is the most important right any free people could have.

SHALL

NOT

>>690948937
you know there are 300 million legal guns in the US... do you really think the are all owned by "redneck/hillbilly/republicans" or are you just actually a dumb person?

BE

INFRINGED

>>690948696
This.

That America has become such a nation of pussies it's willing to try to bargain away its rights rather than use them doesn't change that those rights are unalienable.

>>690949093
I never called you anything but an idiot. It's your own fault that you associate that word with those words. :^)

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I THINK WE SHOULD SHOOT IT

>>690947675
>A well regulated militia

>well regulated

First they say they want a militia

Then they say they want it regulated

But they never say who ought to be in charge of creating or enforcing the regulations.

>>690948687
Not all speech is free speech. Supreme Court has ruled on that numerous times.

>>690948937
The fact that you resort to name calling just proves my point. Feel free to continue living in fantasy land where the gov't and liberal media spoon-feed you what to think. When the day comes, I'll defend your sorry ass, even though you don't deserve it.

>>690947675
Nice pellet gun faggot.

I used to be a Democrat, big time.

I'm a bit more conservative now, but through it all, I kept ONE thing the same in my mind.

SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.

>>690948590
The second amendment was created so that citizens would have the means to challenge a corrupt government, any kind of regulations that weaken the peoples ability to fight is therefore unconstitutional

If the government is tyrannical "suspected terrorist" is another term for patriot

I don't currently believe the government is tyrannical, they are just paving the way for tyranny with good intentions

>>690949326
I am not that anon you replied to I actually know you are a fucking idiot. I didn't associate anything with anything you quoted "things my replublican unkle memed huehue"
faggot
>>690949384
which is another example of our rights being shit on... if not all speech is free speech then we do not have free speech... fucking dumbass

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>>690949357
I think we should let it go

>>690947675
It's awesome

>>690949400
Seriously, shut up. You're no different than a nerd with katanas, dreaming of dueling your HS bully. Your guns would be absolutely useless against the US government, as would mine. How do I shoot down drones and stop tanks with my .308?

>>690947675
Is that pic an instructional on pistol/shot placement for Trump fans so they can't miss?

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>>690947675
I love it.

>>690949663
why does every idiot who come to my thread think that a pic of a hat and a gun means anything more than
>shall not be infringed
>make america great again
are you stupid or something?

>>690949358
Because nobody is in charge of it. Don't assume well regulated means the same now as it did 250 year ago. Well regulated simply means in proper order. If I have a well regulated engine, it means the oil is good, timing chain is set properly, iemaintained and running as anticipated. A well regulated engine is not one that is overseen by 20 different agencies.

>>690949663
they'd be able to miss.

A better way to look at the Constitution's amendments is to view them more as 'privelages' rather than rights. And if you use your brain to think rather than complain, whine, bitch or moan - perhaps you can escape the bliss of ignorance.

>>690949358
>But they never say who ought to be in charge of creating or enforcing the regulations.
because it is the right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear arms... can you seriously not read?
are you a dog or are you PEOPLE? if you are the former then they won't give you and FFL sorry pupper

>>690949603
>Your guns would be absolutely useless against the UK government, as would mine. How do I shoot down rows of trained military troops, cavalry and cannons with my musket?

>>690948937

What you paint chip snacking retards fail to understand, is that the only thing a primate respects is power. If you did a minimum of research, you would see that civillian access to firearms is absolutely positive for society.

Seriously, i can quote stats and anecdotes all day, but youd learn nothing. Instead, just try this: for once in your intellectually deprived life, briefly accept your oppositions arguments, and look for data that supports their claims. Dont worry, you can go back to nibbling dried paint at you convenience.

The fact is if you have no means to defend yourself, there will inevitably be someone around to exploit that weakness, be it your street corner crack dealer or the goverment or anything in between.

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>>690950017
>perhaps you can escape the bliss of ignorance.

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It is a necessary part of our Constitution and this is why Donald Trump will win

>>690949603
Are you really that naive to think the US military would actually turn on its own? You think that if the CiC says to roll tanks into a city, that they would all just say "Ok" and do it? How do you think the population en-masse would respond? Btw, the US armed forces has less than 10,000 tanks. How many of them would they send against just little ole me? How many of my 80+ Million brothers and arms would stand for that? Think again (if you can).

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>>690949724
Officially a Block II thread.

>>690949546
Sorry, didn't realize that you were stupid. If your right directly violates anothers right, then the offending right is stripped. If your right to free speech causes me to lose my right to vote in some manner, then that speech is not protected. You realise rights can violate each other and you are not the only person who exists, right?

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>>690950338

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>>690948351
>>690948532

>>690950304
>Are you really that naive to think the German/North Korean/Soviet/Cambodian military would actually turn on its own?

>>690950105
See, this shit right here.
If the us gov't wanted to kill you, they would blow up your house with a predator drone. You already don't have the means to protect yourself, what the fuck is actually your point?

>>690950429
>If your right directly violates anothers right, then the offending right is stripped
>my speech is hurt by your speech
>WAAAAAHHHHHHH

can you be anymore of an SJW? you can say you have read and understood the constitution but don't think we have free speech because we lost that shit when "political correctness" became standard

fuck a cactus, kiddo
people like you are the reason europe is a cucked laughingstock overrun my muslim hordes and drained by blood sucking jews.

oh is that offensive to you bby?

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Love it

>>690950534
If you think the US government is anything like that then maybe you should ask yourself how well gun control/disarmament worked for them.

>>690950304
I agree. I can see no point in history where a military obeyed orders that were contrary to the greater good under the thought that by following orders the military member's would be safe from the tyrant. Nope, not a single time in history. Thank you for the compelling arguement.

>>690950429
what right could free speech possibly infringe upon? how could me saying something stop you from voting? am i controlling you with words? whose fault is that? these are the questions you should ask yourself anon

The Constitution served it's purpose but America outgrew it. Burn the fucking thing and move on.

>>690950429
>If your right to free speech causes me to lose my right to vote in some manner,
fucking explain yourself idiot boy

>>690950552
that other anon was being sarcastic, as the americans did shoot down row after row of trained british troops. and also, the us govt would not survive a civil war with its people.

>>690950552
I believe that my brothers, armed and ready to defend my freedom, would fight in my stead. The government will run out of drones before the people run out of patriots.

>>690950552
And how many houses would they have to blow up before civil war started? What happens when they run out of missles?

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>>690950445
Slightly older pic

>>690950552
Then my friends, family, neighbors, and /k/omrads would be pretty upset
For every act a government takes against it's own it's support dwindles exponentially. There are no governments without citizens

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Pic related should sum it up

>>690950687
The US government interned thousands of its citizens without due process... at least twice. You tell me that the government will always be on your side.

>>690950882
There won't be a civil war. This entire conversation is fantasy.
>>690950892
Again, it's a ridiculous idea, brother, and mom won't be home for hours. Maybe I could be your Militia tonight...?
>>690950908
>run out of missiles
???

>>690950552
>You already don't have the means to protect yourself, what the fuck is actually your point?
the point is that it is my fucking RIGHT asshole and I will not relinquish it to the people with the bombs... jesus you are thick as shit

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>>690950679
New optic and stock spacer also

>Let's all get our political opinions from betas on a board that is mostly used for furry porn
I really hope you gungrabbers on /b/ and /pol/
are just shitposting.

>>690950456
>Obviously, whatever food the people have must be well-balanced, so the government must regulate it.

"But just because you have an individual right does not mean that the state or local government can’t constrain the exercise of that right."
-President Obama

>>690949358
A "regular" militia, as has been said here >>690949849 , is one that is functioning properly and well.

It's like the use of "regular" to describe a GI tract that is functioning well to provide a body with nourishment.

Words change their meaning over time, and that "gay" means homosexual today doesn't mean that all those old Hollywood movies where people sing about being "happy and gay" are somehow a celebration of their homosexuality.

So read with that understanding, the Constitution and Second Amendment counsels us that a well-armed, well-trained, prepared to fight *populace* is absolutely essential for the existence of a free America.

Which is why the oligarchy is working so hard to destroy it.

The wealthy who would enslave us are our common enemy, and have always been.

>>690950731
Who determines "the greater good"? Certainly not the citizens interned during WWII or those arrested without habeas corpus during the Civil War.

>>690951210
The point is anytime somebody suggests not selling guns to people on a no fly list because terrorism, you have to bring up the us gov't and tyrany. Like they're related. Like anyone has actually proposed taking any weapons from anyone. Look at the 4 proposals that failed this week, and the pointless one that passed.

>/k/... A magical place

>>690950664
>Kek
You'really dumber than I though. You realize but hurt isn't protected, nor did I say it was. So mad and so stupid, thas dangerous. What the fuck does political correctness have to do with anything I said. We have the right to press, I can't publish that John Smith is a convicted pedophile, unless he is a convicted pedophile. Clearly you have an agenda, don't process facts, and just filling the gaps with SJW, cuck, and whatever the next buzzword is. Congrats, you are cancer. I bet you have a Guy Fawkes tattoo.

>>690951211
If I were you, I'd sell that Bushnell and get yourself a dot from Primary Arms. Cheap, and very tough. My newer AR builds wear them, and I've yet to have a problem. Nice rifle!

I am >>690949724

>>690947675
If it helps the gun fetish fags feel good about themselves who cares?

>>690950664
>but don't think we have free speech because we lost that shit when "political correctness" became standard

is this faggot serious?

>>690951242
Nobody is trying to take your rights.

Republicans are always so dense.

You will have the right to bear arms, but only after passing a mental health check that proves your loyalty to the US and confirms you will not use your weapons to commit any mass murders.

But, nobody is trying to take the guns away from law abiding citizens.

>>690951632
He's young. He thinks free speech means he can go talk to people Irl like he does here with 0 repurcussions. He will learn.

>>690951442
you do realize that i know someone who has been on this "no-fly" list... never mind that she is a 60 year old punjabi woman with no "terrorist ties" and has been an american citizen for decades

this story has come time and time again....and only idiots like you don't seem to understand it. people can be put on the FBI no-fly list without due process.... so put gun restrictions on that list and BOOOM... you have now found a way to refuse a gun to anyone without due process
>>690951632
i guess you haven't heard of one of these so called "safe spaces" on college campuses.. where free thought and speech should be actively encouraged. tenured professors have quit their positions over SJW liberal insanity

when is us going to be a civilized country? those amendment make it look like is still at war

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I'm really conflicted on the 2nd Amendment - on the one hand the libertarian in me thinks that government should impose restrictions on personal liberty only when absolutely necessary, but on the other, the 2nd Amendment was written a long time ago, and weapons have since become exponentially more powerful, so it does make sense that we need to adapt our laws to modern realities. Frankly, I think the laws we have in place right now make sense for the most part - there should be a high barrier to ownership of a 50cal machine gun, but very low barriers to ownership of hunting rifles. The problem is where we draw the line, and frankly I don't think there's a good one.

Personally I think the most sensible thing would be to limit magazine sizes - there will always be crimes committed with firearms, but if we limited magazines to 6-rounds-or-fewer (picking a random number here) we could pretty well eliminate the worst shootings without taking away anyone's ability to use a firearm for self-defense, hunting, target shooting, etc.

>>690951775
i can and do talk to anyone however i like... i don't credibly threaten or harass people if that's what you mean because i understand how the law works unlike you faggots.

but i say fuck jews on a daily basis. i don't whine like you on anonymous /b/

>>690951699
Mental health checks that strip rights from anyone who has gone to war, sought counseling, has had depression, etc. It will lead to a 2nd class of citizen that doesn't have rights. The 2nd amendment is not a right that you have to prove you are worthy to receive, it's a right you already have - the constitution doesn't give you the right, it reaffirms you already have it.
And I'm not a Republican.

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>>690950017
>A better way to look at the Constitution's amendments is to view them more as 'privelages' rather than rights.

No your wrong. The 2nd amendment is a God given right given to America by God himself. Anyone who opposes it is a serpent of Satan.

>>690951237
States powers are preserved in a separate amendment.

>>690950850
It was an example, and a bad one. I'll give you that. Rights can frequently violate each other, if that was not the case libel and slander would not exist. You cannot use speech to violate another's rights. An example would be
>>690950748
treason, libel, and death threats. There's 3.

>>690951231
It's not shitposting, it's *disinformation*.

Anyone trying to have a discussion about a politically charged topic needs to understand disinformation. To use a military analogy, disinformation is deception and prevention of communication, functioning like cognitive chaff, or signal jamming).

Don't make the mistake of believing everyone is arguing sincerely. Many are paid to intentionally impede and prevent sincere discourse.

Read this: "Twenty-Five Rules of Disinformation"
http://www.globalresearch.ca/twenty-five-rules-of-disinformation/24889

It's important to know the enemy's tactics - and that's their playbook.

>>690951838
Again, you only got half the point.
One of the proposals that failed this week was to disallow the purchase of firearms to anybody that has been on the FBI's terrorist watch list in the last 5 years. This would have stopped the Orlando shooter, for example.

>inb4 "the FBI would just re add everyone to the list every 5 years forever to get around this"

^ If you actually think anything like that you are a paranoid delusional fuck.

I don't think /b/ understands what a 'well-regulated militia' means
The gov't won't be afraid of some obese faggot with a grease-stained m9.
They'd be afraid of a trained fighting force.

>>690952015
This is what I mean. You have freedom of speech, but you can be sued for libel or slander. You have freedom of speech, but you don't tell cops onto suck your dick.

Nobody gives a shit if you say fuck jews. Fuck yeah fuck Jews, we agree on that at least. You're talking about something else entirely. "PC" has 0 to do with the 1st ammendment

>>690952200
Obama is a constitutional scholar.

I think he knows what he's talking about more than you do.

>>690952314
>^ If you actually think anything like that you are a paranoid delusional fuck.

Doesn't make him wrong.

>>690952314
no you are missing the point... I don't trust the FBI that was already watching and interviewing this guy from Orlando... or the local PD that was notified after he was turned away from a LGS talking about body armor and bulk ammunition.

but sure that one little fact of the FBI having "more reach" with the no-fly list would have prevented this.... sure. what the fuck is the point of a "federal background check" if there isn't a little cliff note that says "yeah this guy is a fucking suspected terrorist, multiple times"
>>690952550
you can tell cops to suck on your dick. don't be an idiot. that isn't harassment

"pc" has everything to do with the first amendment

>>690948590
>watch list
>due process

Pick one.

>>690952314
They might be paranoid and dilusional, and usually are, but without checks in power people will overstep that line. How about the the major issue of civil forfeiture without arrest that has rampant for the past 10 years. Logic would say that nobody could legally take your money, file no charges, and never give it back. Abuse of power says otherwise. It's a slippery slope when you ignore slight infringements of your rights because "they would never do that". They will, they will always do that, because they can, it's a question of how many small steps it takes to get there.

>>690951699
>You will have the right to bear arms, but only after passing a mental health check that proves your loyalty to the US
hahaha, I've been having a bad day but that actually made me laugh. Thanks.

For those who can't see why that statement is so hilarious, remember the ultimate purpose of the Second Amendment is to *fight the government when it becomes too tyrannical*.

So this poster is essentially saying "Don't worry, you can have your rights - which is already a joke because that implies rights are a grant from authority, when they're inherent properties of being human - as long as you prove you'll never use them."

Shill on, brother. Shill on.

>>690952764
The FBI was watching him, but at the time he wasn't suspicious and they stopped. The proposal I detailed would have prevented this.

The local cops had nothing. The gun shop called b/c the shooter asked for body armor, then left. No purchase, no record, no surveillance tape was saved. What can the police do about that?

The amendment was made when you could fire maybe one potentially lethal round every 15 seconds out of a dinky piano with the accuracy of an arthritic blind man, but no yeah we should totally be proud to be one of the only "civilized" countries where we have the right to gun down dozens of people in seconds because someone felt like. USA, amirite?

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>>690952685
>Obama is a constitutional scholar.

>>690952161
He also gave us america, with sweet sweet Manifest Destiny. Praise Jesus.

>>690953262
no the "proposal" you offered is just as lame as the proposals that were struck down this week and rightfully so

eat a dick

>>690953282

Says the faggot on a communication mode not foreseen 70 years ago let alone 240. Maybe you shouldn't have protected speech unless it's using a quill.

>>690953604
I kek'd

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>>690953311
Obama is a "Constitutional scholar" in the sense of "Know Thy Enemy."

>>690953262
Body armor and bulk ammo aren't illegal. It was his demeanor that got him a refusal of sale.

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>>690953604
stfu nigger loving meme stealer

>>690953604
What does this mean? It seems to only prove the point. When the amendment was written, they had no idea what guns would be like, and surely would have thought differently about what laws to make if they knew that centuries later people would be bitching and moaning about losing their right to indiscriminately mow down rooms full of innocent people.

>>690953604
Stop, don't give them even more ideas!

>>690953282
You have never fired a gun have you.

>>690951961
How about you think of it this way. The 2nd Amendment is out dated... There for it should be removed/changed by a constitutional Amendment but while it exists, it should be respected.

>>690953282
Oh, you mean like the belton flintlock, used in the revolutionary war that fired 2 shots per second with a capacity of 20 shots, all fired with a single trigger pull. Yeah, stuff like that probably didn't exist then, and there is absolutely no way that (if it existed) the founding farther would forsee advancements in fully auto weapons like that.

>>690953583
It WAS actually 1 of the proposals that failed to pass a vote, which I would expect you to know as a prerequisite to having this debate.

Maybe you would be more interested in the 1 thing that Republicans DID pass, which expanded the power of the FBI instead of trying to stop the sale of guns to ISIS.
Seems like you wouldn't be a fan of either based on your previous statements, but I'm pretty sure you just have no idea what you're talking about. Bye girl.

>>690954156

That's how Hitler did it in Germany.

>>690947675
go back to your shitty board /pol/ faggot
leave and never come back

>>690954148
I have, actually. It was incredibly boring, but my penis isn't tiny so I'm not the target audience I suppose

>>690954175
shut up kid. just give it up already
OBAMA loves ISIS they his brothers who are good boys who dindu nuffin
you seem to know very little about the state of geo-politics and even less about the US constitution

go read more

>>690948351
>>690948532
/thread

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>>690954080
Didn't think guns would be more than muskets? This bitch was patented 73 years before the amendment. Come back with a real argument.

>>690954493
What's with these little assholes with their guns and protection against criminals. I bet most of them even lock their doors at night.

>>690951237
Originally the Bill of Rights was a limitation on the power of the federal government, true. As such, a State (assuming it didn't have something in its local constitution) could, say, bad free speech as much as it liked.

However as a result of the 14th Amendment, the rights stated in the Bill of Rights have steadily been applied to state and local government too, through a process called incorporation.

Not all rights have been incorporated in this way, but most have. Free speech in 1925, free religion in 1940 and so on until the 2nd Amendment was fully ruled incorporated in 2010.

>>690947675
Has anyone ever heard of an american using a gun for self defence? Instead of for a mass killing spree or suicide?

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>>690954724
>OBAMA loves ISIS they his brothers who are good boys who dindu nuffin

None of this ever would have happened in the first place if Obama had not created ISIS to try and topple Assad.

June 14, 2013
U.S. Military Aid To Rebels In Syria To Include Automatic Weapons, Mortars, And Rocket-Propelled Grenades

WASHINGTON, June 14 (2013) (Reuters) - The United States is likely to send weaponry like rocket-propelled grenades and mortars to Syria's rebels after President Barack Obama approved arming the insurgents, sources said on Friday.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/14/us-military-aid-to-syria-rebels_n_3444104.html


June 26, 2014
Obama asks for authorization to provide direct military training to Syrian rebels

The Obama administration asked Congress on Thursday to authorize $500 million in direct U.S. military training and equipment for Syrian opposition fighters, a move that could significantly escalate U.S. involvement in Syria’s civil war.
Money for the assistance, which would expand a CIA covert training program, is included in a $65.8 billion request for the Pentagon’s Overseas Contingency Operations, or OCO.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/obama-backs-us-military-training-for-syrian-rebels/2014/06/26/ead59104-fd62-11e3-932c-0a55b81f48ce_story.html

>>690955158
youtube is full of videos. look up "armed citizen" I think

>>690954906
A clumsy, musket on a tripod? Sure showed me.

>>690955158
yes there are over 1000 justified shootings annually maybe you should review the statistics instead of being a goof?

>>690955158
It happens. Just as much if not more they die from accidents though.

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>>690954724

>>690955460
[CITATION NEEDED]

>>690955289
You only trace that as far back as Obama. Do a little more reading friend. This has been going on for decades, or was desert storm just a gentlemanly disagreement.

Dam shame they will take them away anywise well look at it this way atlas you get to still keep banging your sister .

>>690954080
>they had no idea...surely they would have thought...if they knew
Good of you to grace us with your insight about how the Founders were both ignorant and would have agreed with you - were they only so fortunate to be in your presence.

Maybe the Founders who had just fought a war to free themselves from a tyrannical government knew what they were talking about and wrote exactly what they meant: that the People need to be as well-armed as those who would rule them.

>>690954950
How many of those mass shootings were prematurely stopped because of those gun toting civilians that you all claim would stop them? I forget. Could it be 0?

>>690955613
HAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHA LOLOLOLOLOLOZLZLZZL OMG FEEL THE BEERRRRRNNNN HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH!!!!!111111!!!!! XDDDDDD EXXDEEE

>>690955158
It happens all the time. Just because it's not on CNN doesnt mean it didn't happen fucktard

>>690955683
How many of those mass shootings happened in "gun free zones", where law abiding citizens are forbidden to carry? I forget. Could it be all of them?

>>690955627
You're right, I guess I don't know what they would have thought. Good thing that you do though.

>>690955683
there was a movie shooter stopped just last year

>>690955627
>People need to be as well-armed as those who would rule them.

top kek

>>690947675
its not up for debate

>>690955896
Pick up a copy of the federalist papers. You'll get plenty of insight. Many of these issues are defined and discussed there, by the founders and framers. A little education is all you welfare niggers need.

>>690955940
america was not intended to be a monarchy but a free state whatever that means
>free speech
>free guns
>free legal defense
>no cruel and unusual punishment
seems pretty good to me. if you don't like these rights you can opt out and go somewhere else

>>690955683
Last yeah in Texas at the mohammed cartoon thing a mudslime was stopped.

So glad we have this freedom to murder people whenever we want. Those poor oppressed people everywhere else just have to live their bland lives without weekly mass murders

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>>690955609

Operation Desert Storm was in response to Iraq's invasion of Kuwait:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War

>>690955627
Nigga are you retarded?

>>690956281
>without weekly mass murders
when was the last before orlando or the 3 that have happened since? no?

>>690956281
You realize a mass shooting doesn't have to have a single casualty right? Under the newest definition only 4 people including the shooter and law enforcement must be injured in any way. Other places have stabbings, stonings, beheadings, and shootings. It's all about where you get spoon fed from.

>>690954080
They had every idea what guns would be like. They were 100 years away from hand cannons, i'm sure they intended for advancement in weaponry. There were automatics on the market at the time of the second amendment. What advancement could they not forsee?
>automatics
Check, they existed
>high capacity
Check, it existed
>collapsible stocks
Check, they existed
>barrel rifling
Check, it existed

So, if distance was improving, ability to load more than one shot was improving, compactability was improving, accuracy was improving. And rate of fire was improving; then what did they not anticipate, night vision and napalm?

>>690956184

yea, the american people should be armed with war engines.

you're hilarious.

>>690955896
>Good thing that you do though
Because I've read what they wrote. I'd recommend it.

And if that stops people such as yourself, then that is indeed very good.

>>690956733
>war engines
what the hell are you talking about?
go away and leave this country if you are going to be such a faggot. or just shut up because you are annoying

>>690951149
there wont be a civil war, exactly, because the government knows it would fall in a matter of weeks

>>690956281
If only someone made murder illegal

>>690955940
>top kek
>>690956371
>Nigga are you retarded?
Referring back to >>690952238 (how to recognize disinformation)

Rule 5. Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule. This is also known as the primary attack the messenger ploy, though other methods qualify as variants of that approach. Associate opponents with unpopular titles such as “kooks”, “right-wing”, “liberal”, “left-wing”, “terrorists”, “conspiracy buffs”, “radicals”, “militia”, “racists”, “religious fanatics”, “sexual deviates”, and so forth. This makes others shrink from support out of fear of gaining the same label, and you avoid dealing with issues.

(Notice how many pro-government posts in this thread and others are merely content-free epithets such as "retard" "nigger" and "cuck.")

Thanks you two for providing more illustration of how this works, and that it's indeed active even in shitholes such as /b/.

>>690957497
yeah and drugs too. those should totally be banned because too many people die and children get addicted.
BAN DROOGS NOW.. THINK OF DUH CHILLN

>>690956578
Here's the thing right? A few days after the Newton shooting there was a case in China where some guy stabbed like 28 people. The only difference was that all 28 of the stabbing victims survived, whereas all those children were torn to ribbons. Other places have shit too, but the casualties are WAY lower. Almost like the guns are actually the problem. Weird.

>>690957678
you just proved that GUNS aren't the problem but violent people are the problem. why can't you see that? do you understand how logic works?
>stabbed vs shot
>b-b-but they survived! that's the point
no it isn't you fucking faggot the point is you have people who think it is okay/normal to attack random people in the street. work on that issue first

>>690947675
Are you part of a militia? Do you really need an ar15?

>>690950817
>The Constitution served it's purpose but America outgrew it.

How about we go back to using it and you can fuck off to some other country that does things more to your liking?

>>690957965
Boy howdy if you think 28 alive people and 28 dead people are the same thing, then you should probably shoot yourself. Same thing, right?

>>690956310
The invasion happened after the iraq-Iran conflict where tribes were armed by the US and the Soviet union, under Reagan, the tribes later assisted in invaiding kuwait and that war was fought by bush. Latter down the line we trained and armed bin laden then daddy had his son invade the mean Saddam who made daddy lose a war.

>>690957678
Sounds more like people are the problem. My guns haven't moved to kill someone all day. Pulse had so many die because they waited hours and bled out. Look at the Boston bombing only 3 dead and around 242 wounded. EMS was right on it amd saved a bunch of people. Make those people wait 3 hours for care and those guys would have had a larger score. September 11th was boxcutters, 2996 dead. It isn't a gun problem it's a people problem.

>>690957995
was george washinton's militia recognized by the former ruling power i.e. britian?
do you really need an ar15? do you really need more than 50 video games? what is your point?
>>690958161
>your logic differs from mine so you should just boost those gun statistics I am crying about
neo-liberals have a mental illness

Just compare the numbers of homocide victims compared to number of guns in the societies and you will umderstand what he means

>>690958317
When 9/11 happened, we tightened air security. when car accidents killed people we added seat belts and worked out ways to make cars safer. When guns are used to kill people en masse every other day, well shoot I dunno what to do. Thinking is hard.

>>690947675
I think that since its an amendment, it can be amended again.

>>690951938
>when is us going to be a civilized country?

When we get rid of all the niggers and other third world muds then rid ourselves of all the slimy Jews that have been importing them to undermine our culture.

>>690958322
What are you talking about? I was simply using your own logic. Don't use a gun then. Jump off a bridge. It doesn't really matter. If you say that there is no difference between whether the victims live or die then kill yourself. There shouldn't be any difference between whether you're alive or dead.

>>690958161
So we ignore the terrible people and just ban the things used by terrible people. We tried that approach, then somebody gathered the chemicals needed, mixed them himself, filled a truck with fertilizer and parked it outside a federal building.

We can't ignore mental illness and then ban every tool mentally ill people use. Sit like that is why magnets and kinder eggs are banned. Should we ban electricity because some kid might stick a fork in a socket?

>>690958655
>when guns are used to kill people en masse every other day
but that doesn't happen.
you know you are statistically more likely to die falling down a manhole in the fucking street or getting hit by a boulder than shot in a terrorist mass shooting.
or is math and thinking too hard for you?
>>690958954
>there isn't any difference whether i am alive or dead
but that's not correct though.
>difference between victims live or die

but you didn't prove that the difference was the gun. you just proved that violent people will always be violent kek. i think you are dumb, real dumb

With the side effect of tens of thousands of gun victims a year - where there are almost none in other countries

>>690951551
What model you recommend?

>>690958322
>comparing owning an AR-15 to owning video games

Yes anon, liberals are the ones with the mental illness. Everybody else is crazy, but YOU'RE the beacon of reason and sanity here.

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>>690959170
haha

>>690959170
But how many hammer victims are there in those other countries?

>>690959054
Blaming mentally ill people for acts done by racists and homophobes raised in a society that encourages that sort of behavior is very careless. Mentally ill people are more likely to be victims than perpetrators. But hey, hmm. I dunno, if you think that banning or regulating weapons of mass murder, then how do you explain how the one country where they aren't is the one where this shit keeps happening so regularly? I'll also simply accept that Americans are just biologically wired to be bloodthirsty terrorists.

>>690959406
they say that guns make people violent
the say that video games make kids violent

both are inanimate objects and both are scapegoats. i don't see a difference, no. should we regulate video games? i mean c'mon it's so easy for kids to get their hands on mature games.. this system needs to be tightened. close up the "cousin loophole" where people just buy a game and give it to a younger family member. fuck that man

>>690959425
We are taling about civilized countries

>>690949244
So much this!! Libtards will happily give up rights to "feel safe". Sorry your right to "feel safe" doesn't Trump my right to protect my family.

>>690957678
Now you're talking other countries and that includes a lot of other variables. If you care for science at all, you know you need a "control" or "similar circumstances" to accurately compare and draw conclusions, and that you can do here in the US.
So, within the same country, operating under most of the same laws (still subtle variation by state, city, etc of course). You can compare cities or states to see the effectiveness of "gun control".
Chicago, DC, NY, and Detroit has some of the strictest gun law in the nation, yet has some of the highest violent or gun related crime in the nation as well, whereas places like Kennesaw, GA (famed for the "everyone must own a gun" law) has one of the lowest crime rates period.
You can also take into account that out of all the mass shootings in the last 20 years, all but 1 was in a "gun free zone".
Would armed citizens in all those situations stopped people from dying? Possibly, but not likely, there are still a lot of variables in a situation like that, but you can compare statistics where a terrorist/nutjob/etc went unopposed compared to those where an armed person was present. In those instances, the "killing spree" never even gets into double digits when someone armed is there to stop them, but in the genuinely "gun free" places it's happened, it's double-digits every time, and often high at that (20+, and 50 in Orlando being the highest of the last 15 years).
In addition to all that, "gun regulation" still doesn't account for stopping criminals/terrorists armed with alternate weapons, knives aside, what about suicide bombs (which are already banned/illegal)? ...or consider that 9/11 let to 3,000 deaths with... no... guns... at all. If someone or several were armed on those planes there is no fucking doubt the twin towers would still be standing.

>>690959833
then why does switzerland issue every citizen a gun with training and the haven't had a mass shooting in like... ever?
maybe because inanimate objects but lack of education and myriad of other cultural factors take place?

i wonder........

>>690947675
It's not a proper sentence. It's a grammatical clusterfuck.

>>690959151
youre right, my slightly exaggerated claim of how often these mass shootings happen totally invalidates my claims. My bad.

Also you yourself made that claim. If you say that it's irrelevant that all the victims survived in the stabbing while all the victims died in the shooting, then you are saying that being alive or dead is essentially the same thing. If you think the existence of a gun in one scenario and the lack of a gun in the other scenario has nothing to do with the vast difference in fatalities, then you are an idiot.

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>>690955158
Literally all the time

http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/10-potential-mass-shootings-that-were-stopped-by-someone-wit#.ew1w5ybKx
http://countercurrentnews.com/2015/07/no-cops-around-man-with-concealed-carry-permit-stops/
http://myfox8.com/2015/07/27/woman-saved-lives-by-shooting-possible-serial-killer-in-the-head-police-say/
http://www.thefederalistpapers.org/uncategorized/uber-driver-with-conceal-carry-permit-stops-mass-shooting-in-chicago
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/07/25/women-who-shot-alleged-attacker-may-have-slain-a-serial-killer-police-say/
https://www.gunowners.org/sk0802htm.htm
http://www.kgw.com/story/news/2014/07/24/12405148/
http://controversialtimes.com/issues/constitutional-rights/12-times-mass-shootings-were-stopped-by-good-guys-with-guns/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epZod2qyyN4
http://100percentfedup.com/watch-angry-school-shooter-is-stopped-by-brave-woman-with-gun-media-ignored-story/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtis_Culwell_Center_attack
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/10/03/do-civilians-with-guns-ever-stop-mass-shootings/
http://www.frontpagemag.com/point/170254/how-assistant-principal-gun-stopped-school-shooter-daniel-greenfield
http://www.businessinsider.com/uber-driver-with-concealed-handgun-prevents-mass-shooting-in-chicago-2015-4
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parker_Middle_School_dance_shooting
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachian_School_of_Law_shooting
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Colorado_YWAM_and_New_Life_shootings
http://www.foxcarolina.com/story/17251517/churchgoers-subdue-gunman-at-spartanburg-church
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clackamas_Town_Center_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_High_School_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_Square_shooting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzMx3Z5EbQQ

>>690958807
Nonsense sophistry. Any part of the Constitution can be amended, whether the target of change is an amendment or not.

>>690960153
**inanimate objects aren't the problem but lack of education etc....**

>>690959646
>doubling down on that argument

You can't kill somebody with a video game. I mean, you can, but you'd have to be committed.

There's a perfectly reasonable argument for owning a gun, I support private ownership. But that argument isn't comparing them to material goods like they're a fucking pair of LeBrons or a waifu statue.

A few points:

-Assault rifles did not exist when the second amendment was written.

-There has to be a line drawn somewhere. I don't think you should be able to walk into a grocery store with a fucking bazooka.

-I really don't know a single liberal that wants to ban all guns. Conservatives live under this delusion that the slightest form of gun control will lead to no citizen being allowed to even own a pistol.

>>690959646
When kids were buying games above their age restriction, we made it stricter. Weird how when someone doesn't work, we tend to fix the problem instead of just throwing our hands up and shrugging

>>690960242
>hen you are saying that being alive or dead is essentially the same thing
yes it is douche bag. have you ever died and came back? how can you be certain you aren't living in a computer simulation right now?

being "alive" to you is a heart rate, breath, vital signs and i guess your faggot feelings. it will be really sad when you realize you are already in hell

>>690960488
i played m rated video games since i was 7 years old along with 20-30 school mates and friends

that totally worked bro. good job bro. great regulation bro.

>>690959151
You're arguing with a sophist who has little intention of doing anything but waste your time.

Your efforts are good, but you should save your energy and have a discussion with someone actually interested in connection and understanding.

Important to for everyone to learn to recognize when someone is just playing argument rope-a-dope to get one to exhaust oneself.

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>>690960445
>Assault rifles did not exist when the second amendment was written.
Muskets were the assault rifles of the time. And there were repeating arms available too, just very expensive

>I don't think you should be able to walk into a grocery store with a fucking bazooka
Nice strawman

>Conservatives live under this delusion that the slightest form of gun control will lead to no citizen being allowed to even own a pistol.
The point is we already have enough gun laws. We don't need more meaningless feel good bullshit that would do nothing to stop criminals and only affect law abiding citizens who aren't the problem

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what's the new high score now for shootings?

>>690960838
150 at Wounded Knee in 1890 by the US government

>>690948532
Well regulated back in the 18th century meant well running or in working order

Lol is this a serious question???

>>690960621
>muh anecdotal evidence

>>690960758
>that comic

Good luck killing 50 people with a bat, a rope, or a knife. But it's fairly easy with an assault rifle.

>>690961005
Well, we sure as shit don't have one of those.

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>>690961161

>>690950017
Our founding fathers understood natural rights. Might want to Google that.

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>>690960696
>a sophist
toppest kekest
>>690961081
it doesn't matter there is plenty of actual evidence to show that kids easily get m-rated games when they are so called regulated
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=5817835&page=1
>>• Young people are routinely able to get their hands on games that are rated "M" (for mature) or "AO" (adults only). Three-quarters of parents who were surveyed said they "always" or "sometimes" check the ratings on their kids' games. And yet, half of boys who were questioned listed a game with an "M" or "AO" rating as one of their favorites, compared with 14% of girls.

>>690958322
Guns are fun and I have no issue with them, I've got a hunting rifle and a .22 in my closet they're great fun and I've done some moose and deer hunting. The issue I have is the types of gun that are available in the US, you don't need an assault rifle to have fun and you don't need a handgun to have fun.

I'd say that Washington's militia was recognised seeing as there was a full blown war happening, doesn't matter if they're officially recognized as an army.

Currently the US has some organized and sanctioned militia organisations, if you're part of one, go nuts with the guns I don't care. Then again if your only reason is "home defense" you can just fuck off, no one's going to invade your home and chances are if someone does you're gonna be shitting yourself and letting them do whatever.

>>690960621
Listen here. Who bought you those games? Someone who was over the age? The regulation was to make it so that underage kids couldn't walk into a store and buy an M rated game. Kind of like how stricter background checks would prevent criminals and terrorists from buying guns. It's really not that hard.

>>690961457
firstly define
>fun
>assault rifle
>>you don't need an assault rifle to have fun and you don't need a handgun to have fun.
see i am reading the words but they seem an awful lot like your opinion... which i really don't value all that much.
you don't get to decide the needs of another man.

>>690947675
Repeal it.

None of you gun fags is doing shit about our shitty corporate-owned government anyway so fuck your guns. Give us the insurrection we deserve or gtfo.

>>690960488
In the USA, age ratings on games (or rather, non pornographic games) is strictly voluntary. There is no law requiring it or enforcing it. The ESRB and the resulting enforcement by retailers, is strictly self-regulation.

All attempts to back up the ESRB by law have failed as violations of the 1st Amendment.

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>>690961387
>implying that you have to own a game for it to be one of your favorites
>implying you can't just play that game at a friend's house
>behold, a faggot

>>690961457
Assault rifle... I don't think that word means what you think it means.

>>690961457
>Currently the US has some organized and sanctioned militia organisations, if you're part of one, go nuts with the guns I don't care
US law states that all able bodied males age 18-45 are part of the militia
And the Supreme Court has ruled that the people, not the militia have the right to keep and bear arms

>The issue I have is the types of gun that are available in the US, you don't need an assault rifle to have fun and you don't need a handgun to have fun
Since when has need ever had anything to do with it?
You're nothing but a fudd

http://www.cfr.org/society-and-culture/us-gun-policy-global-comparisons/p29735

It's pretty obvious ... Where ordinary people have guns, they will be used.

The more gun coverage, the more usage.

>>690961668
>. Kind of like how stricter background checks would prevent criminals and terrorists from buying guns.
but they don't..... legal people buy guns and legally and then may commit a crime

but criminals more often than not commit violent gun crimes with ILLEGAL guns buddy. so the idea of adding further restrictions to people who already follow the laws is asinine. do you know what asinine is kid?
>>690961746
so you are giving my argument a boost by affirming there are MORe ways to skirt the regulations? cool thanks

>>690947675
if only gun control proponents applied the same logic to the first amendment

>applies only to printing presses and Christianity

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The FBI reports that even as the number of guns (including the horrible, demon-machine "assault weapons") has increased, the number of homicides has *decreased*.

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/tables/table-1

On a per-capita basis the homicide rate has just hit a 50-year-low (iirc). And since in that half-century millions and millions of ever-more-powerful guns have entered public ownership, we have direct, clear, objective evidence that more gun ownership *reduces* deaths.

>>690949357
>keltec
>taurus

Know how I know you have poor taste?

>>690961457
Nobody is going to invade your house. Ahh glad to know crime has finally been eliminated. Also chances are I'm going to be sitting myself. You sound like a woman that assumes what's going to happen, bottom line is you don't know shit.

I'm all for the right to own guns. Guns are awesome. What I'm not for is any asshole being able to get one. Just like a driver's license if you can't be trusted you don't get one.

>>690962012
>>690962012
>we have direct, clear, objective evidence that more gun ownership *reduces* deaths.
well you can't quite say exactly that but you neither can you say that increased gun ownership or the manufacturing of high powered "assault rifles" is definitely not a correlation

>>690962012

Welp, there are different sources...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

According to this one, US is in good neigborhood with... Uruguay and Montenegro ^^ lol...

>>690961917
Oh they get them illegally? Well dang. If only there was something we could do to try and stop people from getting guns illegally. Some kind of stricter regulation on guns in general so that all the sales were better monitored so it wouldn't be easy for people who shouldn't have them to get them.

>>690962251
guess what? based off of this shitpost alone i have deemed you not fit to own a gun OR have a license. deal with it
>>690962389
there will always be illegal guns you idiot... jesus christ.. you want to stop a massive influx of guns? build a fucking wall with mexico. right there

>>690962012
Correlation is not causation>>690962012

>>690961917

Buddy, people get guns illegally in germany, too, but dude, compare the gun violence rates.

It's not illegal buying, it's the overwhelmingly easy availability of guns throughout the whole society.

Illegal gun means also stolen gun - but - the more guns - the easier to steal one...

>>690962251
Cars are not constitutionally protected

And who's to determine who can be "trusted"? The person who pays the most to the people in charge?

>What I'm not for is any asshole being able to get one
The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed is pretty clear to me

>>690962493
Go fuck your sister

>>690962493
Many other countries seem to not really have a problem with these illegal guns that will always exist

>>690962360
Lmfao Wikipedia... you just increases your credibility to expert!!!

>>690962251

This would be a start. Just raising the limitations for the stupid and the frustrated to obtain guns.

But it would just be a start, no problem-solver.

>>690961683
>fuck your guns. Give us the insurrection we deserve
Fuck you and your entitlement. I'm not taking a bullet for your lazy ass. You want something, fight for it.

Said more eloquently by Samuel Adams:
“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”

>>690962493

Look at germany - you can illegally buy AK's here but heard of any mass shootings?

>>690961917
And when guns are illegal, the blackmarket price goes way up and restricts access even further. Try harder fag, or just be honest and stop hiding behind the second amendment: you like owning a gun because it's fun to shoot or it makes you feel tough, literally no other reason.

>>690962613
I've never had a problem with who can and can't drivr do that system seems to work

>>690962739

Nope, there is more sources. Wikipedia is at least peer-reviewed to a certain degree.

>>690962824
>Look at france - you can illegally buy AK's here but heard of any mass shootings?

oh wait

What a noble goal you guys have, protecting the right to mass murder. Great fight you guys chose to back here.

>>690962927
Did you forget more people die in car crashes than are killed by guns?

>>690962596
so your plan is to outright "reduce guns" (kek sure)
how do we do this?
will the good guys turn theirs in and then all the bad guys will follow suit?
will the bad guys stop wanting to be bad guys once it is easier to rob people who don't have the means to defend themselves?

are we going to collect all these guns up and smelt them down somewhere, then what? throw them in the ocean? are we prepared to take a massive hit in our economy by taking gun ownership on a whim?
will the government reimburse people for the property they will seize from them? will that money come from taxes?

have you thought ANY OF THIS through?
because it really doesn't seem like it
>>690962715
oh wow you got me
i don't have a sister. post pics of yours
>>690962717
oh fucking really? honduras and el salvardor are pretty safe this time of year. are you planning any trips?
>>690962862
okay all of those reasons plus some... it's also called a right you fucking faggot. kind of how the 1st amendment gives you the right to say stupid shit on the internet.
do you think people on chinese or north korean severs can say shit like this on the internet?
nope?

>>690963001
>protecting the right to mass murder
Actually no, that's not the purpose and it doesn't give you that right, but nice shitpost you got me to reply

>>690963069
No I didn't. The fact that it's easier to get a gun than a driver's license and there are still assholes who can't drive and accidents just proves that their are assholes who shouldn't own guns who do

>>690963069
ban assault cars!! jesus think of the children!!

>>690958655
Right vs privilege.

>>690947675
That most stupid republicans forget the part about well regulated.

>>690963204
Then what's the goal buddy? Cuz all your fight has succeeded in doing is killing innocent people.

Just compare the number of homicides - lesser guns, lesser homicides.

You amerifats are dieing of gun violance big time, but are defending this shity everyone-can-pull-the-trigger-policy till your own end. This is so ridiculous that discussing it is even pointless.

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The founding fathers never expected communications technology to be what it is today. Millions can be influenced in one click.

We should repeal the first amendment.

>>690962316
Yeah, to be just as skeptical of my own stats as the fear-mongering, those two are merely correlated, not causal. (For example, we have no idea whether all the new guns are owned only by previous gun owners, and the decrease in per capita is mostly a result of simple population growth. So it might be causal, but we don't know for sure.)

The goal was to point out the screams that gun violence, and specifically the chance of being killed with a gun, is increasing and out of control are nothing but fear-mongering propaganda.

I was trying to express that quickly, balancing lengthy exposition against the risk of thread 404 - and realized with regret after I'd posted that I could have worded that last sentence more accurately. Mea culpa.

>>690963069

This comparison is not only ridiculous, but also pointless. You, sir, are a retard.

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>>690963326
You can't regulate away stupidity or criminals, sorry

>>690963440
it says the militia is well regulated... ever heard of the neighborhood watch?
>>690963442
actually the number one killer is heart disease nice try though

>>690963426
Since the 2nd amendment like all parts of the Constitution can be revoked or changed it is a privilege not a right since a right can't be taken away

>>690963169

Yep, your american problem is one that cannot be solved any more.

You have driven yourselves into the shit without noticing.

Luckily, not my problem.

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>>690963441
How about the millions of lives saved every year?
Or the millions of people who enjoy hunting and sport shooting?

>>690963704
>luckily not my problem
but you are still a humongous faggot.. that is a little bit of a problem and may even be terminal in your case

>>690963593

I did not say that it is number one.

>>690960321
You can kill someone with a:
Knife
Gun
Ballpoint pen
Compact disk
Kitchen sink
Edible panties
Fishing hooks
Salt shaker
Etc

... But you have to be committed to doing it. Thanks for proving the argument that people are the problem.

>>690963541
I didn't start the comparison dummy

>>690963745
I don't think millions of people are saved by guns every year. Where is your research