Hello asp. Forgive for bad english. Iam a 19 year old student. I wrestle for 4 years in high school. I want to start doing grappling martial arts.
At first i decided on BJJ because its so popular in the US, but my friend told me to try judo instead because its more 'honorable' e.g its an olympic sport compared to wrestling on the mud invented in the brazilian slums/favelas and it has more venues & big name competitions as comparing to bjj that only has Metamoris
What do?
>>1413896 (OP)
He's right, Judo has better opportunities. I was under the impression that Judo was more popular in the US.
Judo focuses on stand up grappling and training, a lot more. It's more of a focus in competition. You train ground fighting grappling, more in training and practice.
But it's still focused on stand up, more so than BJJ.
y'all niggas trollin.
But whatever. Grapple thread!
Why do people always talk about "politics" in BJJ? Like even in small local clubs people will say "x hasn't happened yet because of politics" or stuff about changing clubs etc.
What's the deal? BJJ seems like a cool art to learn but I don't want to get involved if everyone is carrying on like a bunch of high school girls.
Finish what you started. Stick with bjj, but know that eventually you will cross train judo. They are complimentary, so don't rule one out because you choose the other.
at what BJJ belt do you start training wrestling/judo?started a month ago so 1-2 years at least(blue belt) at least right?
Is it possible to learn a few wrestling Takedowns without a Coach/Trainer?
Let's assume I had someone to practice on, could it be done?
>>1414059
Maybe not well enough to do on a wrestler, but definitely enough to take the average person down.
Even if you're on ever going to do bjj, you should know a couple of takedowns. Pulling guard (IMO) should be reserved for when you specifically want to focus on getting better at using your guard.
>>1414043
You start training those whenever you take your ass you a wrestling or judo club and sign up, idiot
Do bjj, you will crosstrain later.
gif is sambo.
>>1413896
Your friend isn't just bizarely prejudiced, he's wrong. BJJ wasn't developed in slums/fevalas. Even today it's still got a pretty bad class and to a lesser extent racial bias in Brazil. Helio Gracie's first student was a director of the Bank of Brazil.
And there's loads more than Metamoris. IBJJF, ADCC, NAGA.
Meanwhile, the Olympic competition is looked down upon by most Judoka because of the way they've altered the rules (no bearhugs, no leg attacks).
>>1414043
Don't over think it. Just work on your bjj and when you feel yourself needing more work on takedowns or footwork, go to some judo classes.
At my judo dojo, there are a couple of guys that go once a week specifically to drill takedowns to help their bjj. It isn't a big deal.
>>1413896
more famous judo blackbelts like Beatle's John Lennon and Yoko Ono, they were stories of John judo tossing punks in the bars of new york, london and tokyo
>>1415154
Was it autism?
>>1415156
not it was SKRILLEX
>>1415164
On fleek
>>1415167
TURN UP FOR WHAT?
>>1415154
This just proves how lax judo grading system is. A skinny lowtest whiteboi can get a black belt in no time. Whereas if you see bjj black belt theyre all either ripped giants or fuckhueg manlet bulls
I got third in my first judo tournament today. I got DQ'd for an illegal tani otoshi for "grabbing the leg" in my match against the guy who took first. Judo rules can be so fucking retarded depending on the ref.
>>1415298
nice bait, what's with you non training fags trying to make every decent thread a boring versus thread?
There are plenty of skinny low test whiteboi BJJ black belts
Cole Miller, Dustin Hazelet
I put money on John Lennon to tap out either of those fags
>>1415298
>>1415303
hearing judo rules is like watching a snake eat its own tail, can't believe they DQ'd you i thought tani otoshi was a lega move or did they ban that too?
i remember last thread there were some fags talking about the move.
>>1415154
I'm pretty sure they just took this photo for a photoshoot and that they have no standing in judo
>>1415313
I always use a seatbelt grip when I do it so they assumed that I was grabbing below the belt, which would be fucking retarded and cost me the throw. They just assumed that I was trying to fucking grab the dude's ass or something. I managed to launch two guys with ogoshi and koshi guruma, and I got a pin off of hikkikomi gaeshi. I got really fucking pissed off at the refs and their treatment of our club for using that move. Another one of our members got DQ'd for it.
>>1415298
>>1415305
>There are plenty of skinny low test whiteboi BJJ black belts
This. It's often the most homosexual of homosexuals that make to black belt.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-mS6BHyU4Y
This looks awesome. Any judo anons who have any advice on the ura nage? After getting DQ'd over supposedly grabbing below the belt on a tani otoshi, I would like to find some good counters to hip tosses/osoto that I won't get called on.
>>1416604
Stop grabbing below the belt on tani. It isn't that hard.
>>1413896
the reason BJJ is so effective is cause it abuses the tapout rules in UFC
Judo is for people that want to kick ass irl
>>1416628
What rules are these?
>>1416645
if it hurts too much you tap out in fear of breaking your shit, which is what you're aiming for in BJJ but that shit doesn't fly irl cause there might be more people around you, or environmental factors
cue the video of the bjj dude getting hit in the head by a bat and ganked by a dousin niggers while unconcious due to getting on the ground for a tapout
Why are there so few places for adults to learn freestyle wrestling? Any of you guys know any books that go beyond the basic drills and throws?
>>1416652
>if it hurts too much you tap out in fear of breaking your shit
As opposed to Judo, where...what? You're allowed to finish submissions even if the guy taps?
>cue the video of the bjj dude getting hit in the head by a bat and ganked by a dousin niggers while unconcious due to getting on the ground for a tapout
I forgot how strict the rules are for combat on the street, and how there's always impartial judges around to enforce them like this.
>>1416668
Judo has a focus on throws.
you ever got your entire body thrown onto asphalt before fuccboi? It takes like a second to do and doesn't involve gay sex with your opponent on the ground
>>1416677
>Judo has a focus on throws.
Ideally then, you want something like Sumo or other folk wrestling styles that don't have any "tap out rules"
>you ever got your entire body thrown onto asphalt before fuccboi?
Have you?
>It takes like a second to do and doesn't involve gay sex with your opponent on the ground
So your plan is to go to the ground? Lol, cue getting ganked be a "dousin niggers."
Go train before posting.
>>1416618
I didn't grab below the belt on the tani you fucking faggot. I didn't know that you were there
>>1416662
by definition isn't freestyle supposed to really be anything you want it to be?
Unless it's a house of lies like freestyle swimming where there is in fact a ridged structured form to it
>>1416731
Kudos to that guy. Got up after taking a beating from a dozen guys and kept fighting, gets knocked down and keeps getting back up.
>>1416808
I'm not really sure I have a basic understanding throws both above and below the waist, but in the Olympics they spent a lot more time on the ground and manipulating legs than I had been led to believe by reading about it.
That's really all that made me question whether or not there was more advanced stuff that I didn't know about yet.
>>1416808
Not at all. Freestyle wrestling has its own form of scoring and syllabus of techniques.
>>1416841
The ijf is live streaming the Budapest tournament right now, just go to the YouTube channel
>>1416731
Guy keeps moving, fighting back and standing up. Best thing he could do since if he'd have frozen up he would've gotten his head stomped in.
His gf throws herself in without hesitation, being an obstacle for the attackers whos target is her boyfriend. She's probably screaming around, alarming the whole street.
>>1416784
Who am I supposed to believe, a noob at a tournament full of nerves, or a judge whose whole job is to watch where your hands are. There are people in tournaments that are so hyped up that they don't realize their nose is broken and you want me to believe you had a perfect tani¿
>>1416808
Actually, you are allowed to swim any style it's just that that particular stroke - officially called the crawl, front crawl or Australian crawl - is the most efficient and fastest, so has become synonymous with freestyle.
>>1413896
BJJ and Judo are complimentary, just grab one and train it until you're comfortable training both. Since you have a wrestling background, you probably have a good takedown game so BJJ might give you more immediate advantages by adding shitloads of submissions to your game.
But really, you need to choose based on which gym is better. There's a Judo and BJJ gym in my area, and the BJJ gym is way nicer, with much more training for my dollar. Thus I train BJJ.
>>1416668
You tap out of subs in Judo as well, you fucking idiot.
>>1413896
>grappling martial arts
>wrestling is not a grappling martial art
wat
>>1416731
Is this supposed to be a critique of BJJ? I don't think any martial arts would save you from that situation. Maybe a gun. Or sprinting.
>>1413896
>wrestling on the mud invented in the brazilian slums/favelas
your friend is a piece of shit nerd and there is no such thing as honorable martial art
judo is good for throws and bjj for ground fighting.
as a wrestler you will become a good guard passer in bjj. judo will teach you and specialization of stuff you already know a lot of new stuff too, but not as much as bjj. judo is almost greco with leg sweeps.
I would go for bjj if I were you.
>>1416833
none of the hits really connected. those niggas are really incompetent.
>>1417075
You'd be hard pressed to find shitheads like that who are competent
>>1415298
Looks like a low test fuccboi to me
>>1415303
>tani otoshi
>grabbing the leg
lolwut
>>1417062
>Maybe a gun.
A dull knife and a tiny it of competence would be enough to deal with a bunch of completely unarmed and unarmored opponents, if they didn't all run away after 2 people got stabbed.
>>1416833
He drinks a Whiskey drink, he drinks a Vodka drink
He drinks a Lager drink, he drinks a Cider drink
He sings the songs that remind him of the good times
He sings the songs that remind him of the best times
>>1417548
you do know each judo throw has at least a dozen variants outside the traditional classic way right?
>>1417605
Guy is bitching about leg rules barring the use of tani otoshi. Guy 2 posts a common non leg grab tani otoshi. Your own comment makes Guy look stupid because he should be able to pick one of the dozen variants.
Breakdown and study of Damian Maia who probably has some of the best wrestling and BJJ applied to MMA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qu_ulU7nE-0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fp9YLYVJeyI
>>1417615
I didn't grab the fucking leg. I had a seatbelt grip when I went for the throw and I supposedly went "below the belt" according to the ref. But leave it to 4chan to educate me on something that they weren't there to witness.
>>1418163
If your dojo is teaching you to grab legs with your seatbelt grip, you need to find a new dojo.
>>1413920
Bjj is actually legitimate unlike the vast majority of other martial arts in the united states. People take their lineage seriously and only certain people are allowed to promote belts and things like that. Your excuse to not start is horrible by the way, stop being a pussy.
>>1417056
I know. It's sarcasm. Because he thinks tap out to subs is the only reason BJJ is effective, and then recommended Judo like it doesn't have tap outs to subs.
>>1418394
but it is political bullshit, like how my place doesn't get recognized by ibjjf because we don't currently have a black belt. The guy running it has been a brown belt for 9 years and hasn't been promoted because his teacher (who was our black belt) left the country and never came back. And most people aren't in the business of just handing over black belts even when people have put more than their share of work in because of muh lineage! I haven't ever seen many belts more worked and tattered than the one he wears, its basically just a reddish gray at this point.
it also leaves us in an interesting position where we are able to choose our lineage, it has been a group discussion over who he should go get his black belt from because that lineage will then trickle down to the rest of us. I think currently we are looking at carlos gracie last I checked
>>1418491
You think?
Sounds like you're at a McDojo and your home slice is feeding you tons of BS about his belt rank to keep people coming.
I have a bridge to sell you.
>>1418504
>Sounds like you're at a McDojo
lol no, we have one of the most legit spots around, it's the best kept secrets in the area. Big tournament presence, people repping our shit on the podium all the time.
Everyone just happens to be stuck in rank limbo
>>1413914
I'm pretty sure bjj is more popular in the US.
>>1418440
Oh, I actually meant to respond to him but clicked the wrong in-line quote link. My bad.
>>1415102
Without a trial class, you can't. Neither can you for bjj or any other martial art.
>>1417876
Thanks for sharing those links
>>1418491
Thats the problem, any of you guys that he promotes will be not "legit" in the eyes of the ibjjf. If hes as good as you say i doubt it will be too hard to find someone to promote him. None of that shit matters if you're learning and improving, keep training bruh.
>>1418835
savage sweep, gonna try it tonight
>>1418491
Same thing happens in judo dojos, because most senseis may have the art down, but suck at putting their finances in lockdown. That's why the usja has the undocumented rank testing process to keep dojos from getting orphaned.
Even if he isn't officially ranked, documenting time in grade and doing a skills assessment shouldn't be that hard in whichever sanctioning body he chooses.
Unless it is bullshit mcdojo, in which case, that shit is never going to happen.
>>1418913
>None of that shit matters if you're learning and improving
we need to be careful for not getting reputation of being sand baggers, we had someone that was a white belt for going on 2 and a half years and he was wiping the floor with other white belts at a tournament, obviously. Enough so that one of the coaches withdrew his student before the match started, went up to our guy "After watching your last match, he doesn't even have a shot, we aren't doing this"
>>1418231
Thanks for misreading my entire fucking post. Typical /asp/ie who doesn't have fucking reading comprehension.
Sorry if this is a dumb question thats asked a lot, but im gonna start boxing classes and want a grapple to compliment it
Which is the most cost/time effective judo vs bjj? Purely for self defence, not competition
>>1421578
They are so similar in fundamentals that the quality of instruction is what matters most. They both have different focuses, but they can also be thought of as entry points, into a curriculum that shares 90+% of techniques.
>>1421748
How do I tell a mickey mouse dojo from a legit one? Should I be looking out for certificates of some kind?
>>1421578
Judo will be much more cost effective than bjj.
One thing to keep in mind is that judo teaches footwork that may be contradictory to your boxing. Left-handed boxers learn the foot positions of right-handed judoka and vice versa.
>>1421807
The nice thing about both styles is that they pretty much rule out by themselves shitty schools. If you don't know how to throw someone, you're not going to be able to throw someone. Same as boxing, once there's something live, it's pretty hard to fake anything.
But that doesn't mean quality doesn't differ. Even if two guys don't know the same thing, doesn't mean they can both teach well. Some things to look for are teacher to student ratio. Same as learning anything, if there's one teacher, and twenty students, they're not going to learn much in an hour.
Watch or take a trials class. See how often the students seem confused or are able to follow, and see how much YOU are able to follow. A good teacher of either style will show attention to detail and common mistakes.
>>1422257
This. I don't know about BJJ, but for Judo, if they're attached to some sort of governing body like USJF or AAU, and they regularly send people out to competitions and win, it's almost guaranteed to be legit.
>>1422862
Same thing, different acronyms.
I'm 24 and I want to start doing freestyle wrestling. But my weight is only 135 lbs (height is 5'11). Is it ok to start? Should I gain weight in gym first?
>>1419051
Beware, beware, beware of the USJA. Gary Goltz is a 10th Dan in Buffoonery. He's nice enough and I'm willing to believe he is well-intentioned, but he's a bit dense and his ego is bigger than his gut (which is pretty big).
https://youtu.be/NzkP3CJywKk
>>1415154
the absolute madman
>>1417562
OHHHH DANNY BOY
DANNY BOY
>>1416731
God damn I hate niggers.
>>1423121
I don't know the politics. Please tell me more.
I'm in a usja school and our head sensei is usja. However, going forward our sensei will eventually be leaving and we also have kodokan and usjf members that can take over. We haven't decided on which organization to affiliate with in January after the dust settles and I honestly am looking for opinions on this.
>>1416731
>whole pack of niggers get fended off by a white DYEL and an office lady
Jesus chist, pathetic.
>>1423112
You'll wrestle in a weight class so it doesn't matter. Just show up and learn to wrestle without worrying about your weight for now
>>1423306
Goltz likes to claim credit for things other people do. Also, he hands out dan grades as favors as if he was some sort of judo mafia don.
One of the more inane things was awarding Teddy Roosevelt a posthumous 8th dan because he couldn't stand the thought of Russian President Vladimir Putin (6th dan at the time, currently 8th dan) ranking higher than an American President. Roosevelt was 1st kyu at the time of his death.
Goltz also awarded Jeremy Glick, a passenger on United Flight 93, a posthumous 10th dan.
>>1423767
Literally was told the same thing about usjf in a usja school.
>>1424028
well objectively speaking ja promotes primarily based on number of classes attended and jf promotes primarily based on scoring points in competition.
We are chartered by both organizations, my teacher is eligible through ja for a 4th dan having gotten his 3rd 2 years ago, jf is making him wait another 6 years unless he is able to batsugun
>>1424069
Oh, well that makes a comment that I heard at the last regional competition make a little more sense. They said, "you only need to learn three throws to get a usjf black belt."
>>1424073
well you have to know more than that, after you earn your tournament points you need to go through an evaluation in front of a committee. There aren't in club promotions for black belts
the person administering a test will call out any of the throws or pins in random order, and you need to execute them on both sides and you also have to do the kata. So technically you need to know all the throws.
You can drop seio all the way to batsugun, but then at testing you need to demonstrate you actually know how to do everything else
>>1418520
That's why I hate bjj politics like "bjj is for everybody".
Why the fuck are so many BJJ practitioners so focused on absorbing any and all grappling techniques under their umbrella? I had an argument the other day with a guy because I called a kimura a figure four armlock, and he tried to tear into me by claiming that it was taken from BJJ and that the proper name was a kimura. I shut him up when I asked him where he thought the name came from, but it still pissed me off. It seems like, more and more, BJJ is claiming sovereignty over grappling, and taking techniques from sambo, wrestling, judo, etc. and pretending that they're BJJ originals.
>>1425069
because the greatest skill the gracies possessed was to churn out propaganda. It's just brainwashing of ignorant people the same way karate masters from the far east did in the 70s
americana = ude garami = arm lock
kimura = gyaku ude garami = reverse arm lock
less than 1% of bjj was actually developed in brazil. 98% was invented by the japanese, the rest was invented in the USA. Where eddie bravo gets off calling what he does brazilian jiujitsu I have no idea, because even the brazilians don't want to be associated with it
>>1425069
>I shut him up when
You haven't won, as he hasn't accepted defeat. Silence can be used in many ways, one of which is as a tactical retreat. He may obtain more ammunition, prepare his strategy and tactics, and once again meat you in battle.
Prepare your anus.
>>1425101
I dunno, I feel like Eddie Bravo is alright. I watched his rubber guard DVDs and skimmed his books. He has some neat half guard work and his transitions were cool, even if the names are a bit odd, possibly even cringe worthy depending on perspective.
>>1425176
>>1425101
Most normal BJJ coaches actually respect Eddie Bravo.
The only people that don't like him tend to be BJJ snobs and nerdy Brazilians.
My coach is old school as fuck (trained in the Gracie's garage), and he bought his son one of Eddie's books for his birthday. Was also talking about how much he liked EBI today.
Sure, Eddie is a bit of a goof. Everyone knows that. But most normal human beings can separate that from his BJJ.
>>1425176
>>1425242
I don't mind him, I use his shit sometimes. I just don't see how anything he does is brazilian jiujitsu.
consider this, a bunch of brazilians learn japanese jujitsu and suddenly without really changing anything it gets rebranded officially as brazilian jiujitsu
then an american actually develops his own system with new techniques all together, in america, and it's still brazilian jiujitsu.
this is going back to what that other guy was saying about how bjj is trying to monopolize grappling as though it all belongs to them. Americans have contributed more to "brazilian" jiujitsu than brazilians have
>>1414425
what makes sambo a better option than crosstraining wrestling or judo?
>>1425424
Only some of the stuff in 10th planet might be new. Most of it isn't. Also he is very proud of training BJJ under his instructor JJ Machado.
>>1425635
Its got judo throws, but better since you can touch the leg, its got leglocks, pretty much its just the best of everything.
>>1425703
No chokes though?
>>1413896
General question: I do BJJ now but I want to learn some wrestling. I live in NYC- but I can't for the life of me find a place to train as a wrestler starting as an adult (I'm 24)
>>1413896
>wrestling on the mud invented in the brazilian slums/favelas
Your friend is a cunt, and he's wrong.
The Gracies as a family, and the history of BJJ, is not one of poor people. The Gracies are intertwined with the wealthy elite of Brazil all the way back when it was a Portuguese colony in the 19th century.
Your friend can be retarded and say it's not "honorable" or whatever gay shit, but BJJ is very much something the wealthy in Brazil are involved in.
>>1415298
>Whereas if you see bjj black belt theyre all either ripped giants or fuckhueg manlet bulls
Because BJJ for Brazilians is a wealthy man's sport, and wealthy people can afford AAS, HGH, and Clen (not that Americans can't get them, a few months worth of Clen is like $30 online).
>>1425898
It was the Oswaldo branch that taught the poor.
Those BJJ guys formed Nova Unnioa
>>1419426
>we need to be careful for not getting reputation of being sand baggers
That's an issue I see with BJJ all the time. What is the point of belts and promotion through "lineage" for quality control if you're going to shit on someone for competing at their rank?
>>1425069
Honestly, I wouldn't even call BJJ a martial art. It's a system of techniques collected from other arts. It started out as Judo with a focus on newaza, then it incorporated catch submissions, then leglocks from luta livre, then takedowns from wrestling, and so on. There hasn't really been much innovation, especially from the Gracies.
>>1425069
The Kimura was named after Masahiko Kimura. The actual name for it is Gyaku-Ude Garami
> Wrestler fight for 4 years in high school
> literally runs his mouth talking over instructors like he knows everything.
> throw him with Kosoto + Seoi combo
> somehow land on his wrist
> hyper extend it
"I'm fine" he said while choking back tears.
>>1426290
And then everybody clapped and your supermodel olympic instructor gave you a blowjob, right?
So what do you guys train at gym for it to help your grapple?
I've been doing it for 3 months but obviously I need some training to get actually better at it.
I'm 6'3" My flexibility sucks, I get lower back pains if I try to throw them from the turtle.
What are some ESSENTIAL training to do for BJJ?
>>1425872
Look up the twin towers wrestling club. Also doesn't Marcelo's club do a lot of wrestling? I know that one of the big BJJ academies has all star wrestlers floating around
>>1426290
>kosoto seoi combo
Did you just string random Japanese words together in an attempt to look cool? I remember when your fatass was trying to act tough about having a .75BW bench press and bragging about eating Chinese food every day, you fucking slovenly faggot.
>>1426355
The most essential thing is to roll more.
Beyond that, training your flexibility, muscular endurance, and explosiveness will all be worthwhile.
>>1426375
Circular Training or would a normal workout do it?
What stations to workout at? Squats, what else?
>>1425682
its just interesting though that we will take the infamous rubber guard for example, he created that because bjj simply didn't work. It didn't exist in bjj, an american developed a new position to fill that hole, and suddenly mission control is now a bjj position
So wrestling manipulates balance and center of mass, while Judo is about manipulating an opponent's balance and momentum?
Or is this a pleb observation? I just kind of want to know the difference in approach to takedowns
>>1426913
you don't manipulate momentum in judo, you take advantage of it
it's all about kuzushi, you off balance someone with a small push or pull and then take their base out.
every time you take a step you are off balance for a moment until you put your foot back down. Judo is all about taking advantage of that moment
>>1426367
>clearly refers to a combination of the throws kosoto gari and seoi nage.
If you trained you would know this.
>>1427016
how do you combine kosoto gari into seoi nage?
>>1427020
Fake kosotogari to open them up then turn into seoi nage, how new are you?
>>1427078
ikkyu
>>1427081
Forgot link
https://youtu.be/MRTsabfMTgs
>>1427020
Fuck, I'm an idiot. I was thinking ko uchi gari. My bad.
https://youtu.be/glO4xOKWrq8
>>1427090
that makes more sense
there's a huge difference in kosoto to kouchi
it wouldnt make sense going outside the leg then inside
asking to get suplexed
>>1427090
It's conceivable to combo off kosoto, but it's a but unwieldy and seems like it'd be highly situational.
>>1413914
Judo does not have better opportunities than BJJ, especially not in the USA.
BJJ has tournaments which are becoming more and more common with large cash prizes. You can also eventually create a gym where you can actually make money.
You will not make any money from Judo. Sure, you might be better known, but you have far better chances of making money off BJJ than Judo (especially in the USA).
>>1427117
Judo in the US is the only place where you don't make bank, but internationally if you're an olympian you get paid by the government with a living stipend, food stipend and home stipend pretty much you make at leas 40k a year. If you medal at the many grand prixs the purses range from 50,000 to 100,000 US dollars.
Olympic medals will net you $50,000, $75,000 or 100,000 in France, Russia, Japan, Korea. (who happen to be the top countries for international judo)
>>1427132
if you're a international coach, you can make several hundred dollars to a thousand for each athlete that medals at a grand prix.
So coaching could net you several thousand dollars for a days worth of work
>>1426196
This is an English board you fucking nerd.
Here in America will call it a chicken wing. Fuck, even my coach's coach, Yorinaga Nakamura, called it a chicken wing. He knew where he was, in an English speaking country. So, even in spite of his poor English, he still tried to speak English.
>>1425872
Renzo Gracie' school has wrestling classes. That is where I would train. Marcelo's is a close second; not sure if they offer wrestling though. I was super impressed with Eddie Cumming's at a seminar, so that's why I would go Renzo.
>>1426184
Every fucking martial art is a collection of other martial arts you jackass.
>>1426852
Actually a lot of people were already using variations of Rubber Guard before Eddie did.
>>1427132
This pic was from 2009, a non olympic year for a smaller grand prix, notice the smaller purses
Olympic years, judoka have the potential to win a bunch more money
>>1427132
Again, that's why I said in the USA.
Also, keep in mind that the olympic i every 4 years.
>>1427144
Let me take a step back, and emphasize my main point:
The real money is in owning your own school. Judo clubs tend to be non-profitish.
A lot of Judo athletes retire and then they have nothing (USA). Not that they had much in the first place.
new york guy, where in new york are you?
>>1426367
Wrong tripfag
>>1427095
If you can suplex a 100+kg heavyweight at 5' 7", I'll applaud you.
Until then I'll enter Seoi however I want. I mean Ko-uchi. But I have set up Seoi with Kosoto before. Also a monster with the following:
Ouchi-Gari
Ogoshi
harai Goshi
Sumi Gaeshi
Andddddd Ura Nage
Osoto is truck for me to use. But I still fight for it anyway lol Seoi just happens to be my bread and butter
>>1427078
Show me that working you fucking internet wannabe tough gut
>>1428370
You're fat as fuck and you've trained for all of a year. You're a "monster" with nothing
>>1427153
I don't know if this is objective but Travis Stevens gave a detailed talk about how USA judo funds him:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7d6k5J9CaCo
It's a respectable amount but he's not really raking in money, and it seems heavily dependent on results
>>1428471
Oh boy, you sure sound mad
>>1426184
Well, the good news is that Catch Wrestling and Judo aren't martial arts either.
Judo is just a collection of techniques from Jujitsu, wrestling and Sumo.
Catch is just a rules set that allowed for any techniques from any tradition to be applied.
Turns out there hasn't been much innovations there, either.
>>1428866
I'm not actually sure why anyone calls judo a martial art when it was never supposed to be. Like, from conception it was meant to be a sport so people could practice their martial arts techniques safely.
Judo by design has the most dangerous stuff neutered out of it
Is it true that Judo is worse for you joints health wise and is ruined by BS rules?
How effective is it on people who arent wearing a gi?
>>1429133
Yes, but it's no worse than wrestling or football. (I've done both) I don't give a fuck if my joints are shit when I'm 80 I'll stop doing it when I'm in a wheel chair with Alzheimer's, until then the competing is fun and I love love looooove doing it.
I don't get this BS rules, it's just you can do certain things in tourneys. No one said you couldn't do that shit in Randori, just ask your Randori partner. Also Newaza is becoming increasingly popular due to BJJ in America and that BJJers are cross training in Judo. If you're ever doing rounds ask if you can do a few Newaza only rounds. He'll go a few no Gi rounds after class or during if you can. BJJers who worship their art religiously have been perpetuating this stupid ass theory that Judo is weaker due to competition rule changes. Honestly my advice is if you're a few weeks out from competition and you really want to, fit some no Gi Newaza and tachi practice into your training. And when you get closer to competing, get the fuck into the mindset of training for JUDO competition.
>>1428892
Judo was meant to be a system of self-improvement. The sport is a vehicle towards that goal.
>>1427280
Upper Westside
>>1413896
> Judo
> a system of applicable techniques from Sumo and Jujutsu both which were attained through fighting in the muddy battlefields of Japan
> honorable
People who put tradition before application in their clubs should be ashamed to perpetuate this "honorable" image Judo has. Judo is brutal, there is a reason it is a source of influence in Sambo and BJJ. Despite rule changes in competition. A club should still teach and ingrain all techniques into its students, Gi or No-Gi. So if you do decide to go with Judo (I think you should) don't go to that faggots dojo.
>>1425908
>>1419426
2nd Dan judoka here, I was forced to compete as a white belt in a BJJ competition earlier in the year and pretty much won my group without breaking a sweat.
The fact is, it was dangerous for the other guys I was fighting, i've been grappling for over 15 years, most of them had barely been doing it for a year, the guy i fought in the final had been doing it for just under 2 years.
>>1428838
I like this edit better. Enjoy my friend, you may save it for free.
>>1429380
Have you competed yet? Soon you'll understand the extent of the closed-mindedness of some of the old guard judoka. They are incredibly strict on rules and very unwilling to understand Kano's vision of an all-encompassing martial art that everyone could enjoy.
>>1429670
Why on earth did you join the white belt group? Did you not have to admit your previous experience when you signed up? I know that it's that way for no gi but there's something wrong about having someone with your skill set compete against newbies and I can't even imagine it's much of a challenge for you.
>>1429974
I declared my experience, but I had no "official" BJJ grade, even though i had my official British Judo Association license with me that detailed my grade, so I was made to compete in the white belt division. It was a terrible decision on the organisers part and I ended up giving the medal away as it didn't feel like I'd actually done anything. I have harder randori sessions at the club than I had at that competition.
>>1429993
Yeah they really dropped the ball on that one.
>>1429993
This is what happens when bjj elitism causes people to think that judo is only stand up.
>>1429972
The Elitist can limit themselves all they want. It does not change the fact Judo is growing in such a way to compete with BJJ now. Newaza is becoming more prevalent, instructors are teaching the techniques you can't use in competitions. I also believe I know why this is, it is because Sambo, NAGA, and other grappling comps are quickly becoming more prevalent in the USA. Judo Clubs now want their students to get out and represents.
I've heard of freestyle judo, tell me about it.
>>1430998
its pure judo
leg grabs and more time on the mat to do submissions,
sucks it only seems the US is only one doing it,
>>1431007
pretty much all the judo american judo guys do freestyle judo, olympic style is cuck shit with their no leg grab rule. again just trying to nerf superior wrestlers from embarrassing them. So America made their own judo system called free style judo which was Olympic judo before the gay leg ban. Lots of wrestlers and BJJ are invited to do it too
>>1431012
>the judo leg ban was because of wrestlers meme
I want this to die so bad. I've had to explain this shit soany times over I don't want to do it anymore.
>>1431225
the birth of freestyle judo came directly because of the rules.
>>1431225
They didn't like wrestlers getting a yuko and stalling out to win in high level matches.
>>1431333
>>1431464
These guys are correct. To be fair though my coach thinks a well Judoka should compete in Olympic and Sambo to become a well rounded fighter, but now he's pushing for us to go into freestyle comps. It's not a bad thing banning leg grabs imo for strictly Olympic competitions, but if they're gonna do that. The instructors should be pushing for their judo players to compete in other grappling comps so they grow to be more knowledgable about Judo as a whole and not just what is allowed in competition.
>>1428866
>Catch is just a rules set that allowed for any techniques from any tradition to be applied.
Wrong, there was never any standard rule set. Catch wrestling is it's own martial art and is the precursor to many modern wrestling styles.
>>1433715
>>>/wwe/
>>1431857
There were a few incidences of wrestlers from Eastern European teams competing at a high level in judo and using that strategy to their advantage. Honestly I think it was primarily changed due to the boring nature of judo at the time and the potential for judo to get the axe from the olympics.
>>1416731
Ooga booga, indeed.
>>1425069
We just call techniques whatever. I think you just met one asshole.
>>1427016
You don't train if you don't know the difference between a feint and attack or combined attack.
There's a national competitive Judo guy who comes into our BJJ gym every Sunday to teach balance and basic throws.
Real sport/competitive Judo is dangerous like jumping into the NFL and getting railroaded by a defensive end going top speed and smashing every bone in your body.
>>1435378
It certainly isn't for pussies
imagine paying to train a martial art every month, putting in years of effort, and not studying bjj
>>1440114
Imagine making productive posts.
How popular are BJJ competitions in the US?
I've been competitive in Judo for a while but I'm starting to fall away from it since I've only been doing it for a year and I never end up in a division with somebody who's my size and skill level
I also kind of like how BJJ is slow paced compared to judo where you can get your shit slammed seconds into the match if you forget about your footing for a split second
>>1413896
All this thinking and asking others won't help you..
You have to find out wha't the best martial art for YOU.
Judo and BJJ are very close (technical wise), to break it down:
Each throw in BJJ has at least 10 differnt variants in Judo.
Each ground technique in Judo has at least 10 differnt variants in BJJ.
But the mentality is very different.
Just try it and you will see what I mean.
>>1440502
I just don't think that's accurate because where I do judo we spend just as much time, if not more time on practicing the ground than we do practicing on our feet
where as in bjj if I take 12 classes a month, maybe one of them will include a takedown
that's why I do judo in the first place, I want to play bjj but takedown are so grossly neglected by the sport collectively that even a little bit of judo makes you a wrecking machine out there
>>1440522
>we spend just as much time, if not more time on practicing the ground than we do practicing on our feet
Same at my Dojo, but that doesn't change my opinion, fellow Judoka.
Even if Judo players do 50/50 Standup/Ground and BJJ guys do 10/90 Standup/Ground, they will both have about the same skill set in their areas, because standup fighting is much more difficult than ground fighting.
People train their balance from the age of 1, so if you want to break this you have to put a lot of effort in it. That's why Judo is not very rewarding the first few years, the progress doesn't feel great. But once you masterd it it's very hard to resist a good Judoka.
BJJ is exactly the opposite: It's not difficult to stall a ground game. Yes, a higher BJJ will toy you on the ground, because sooner or later you will do a mistake, but you can do a lot with sheer willpower and body mass.. That's why you try to "outsmart" your opponent in BJJ.
Also the philosophy is differnt..
The (classical) Judo philosophy is like this:
You have basically a bunch of Techniques you can use. They are meant to work immediately. Only if you fuck up and your position/grip is "falling apart" you have to adjust it. This is called "Kuzure", as in "Kuzure Kesa Gatame".
Now the BJJ throwing philosophy is like that:
You take a bunch of "high percentage" moves and hope they will get you in a good position. If not.. well fuck it, you can just pull guard and sweep him.
But if we look at Judo standup there's a whole universe. And the same goes for BJJ positions..
And I'm not only talking about the techniques, it's also about the entries, the counters, the combinations and so on.
>>1426852
Saying it doesn't work is a bit false.
It didn't work for him, when he was actively competing.
Reading his books, a lot of the stuff he teaches now is stuff he assimilated from other arts when he was a competitive purple belt.
For example, in one of his books, he mentioned using something he calls 'Monkey Mount' because he had trouble retaining a 'normal' Mount position.
A lot of people don't have trouble with that. There are also a ton off common variations of the closed guard and ways of using the closed guard which accomplish the same thing that the rubber guard does (break posture and keep it broken).
Eddie was not very strong and uncommonly flexible. His style reflects that.
>>1440502
Ftfy
>>1440476
Way more common than judo competitions for sure. Look up newbreed, naga, or ibjjf. If youre in a populated area then there should be opportunities to compete.
>>1441553
>judo and bjj blackbelts are the same
Judo babby detected. Go roll with a bjj guy who has been training the same amount of time as you, youll get your shit stomped.
>>1441753
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wb3BbbKOdtw
>>1441813
Unless that's you in the video I don't see how it helps your argument.
>>1441838
not my fault bjj blackbelts get caught with ezekiels from inside their guards so easily. And yes that shit works like a charm all the time
go try it out sometime, thank me for it later when you have all the guys in the gym yelling at you BRO THAT WAS FUCKING CHEAP
shoulda watched your neck, ya bitch
>>1441753
And he will get stomped on takedowns
>>1440502
The variants are there, but many dojos don't teach them because it doesn't help much in competition. All you need is a macaco to nip dictionary and the promotion standards of both arts to figure out that the tech for both is essentially the same, and black belt tend to start learning the complete set of techniques, even the ones that are useless in competition.
So bjj can grab the leg and judo can't, but both have their own version of kata guruma.
>>1442053
but those were both judo
it kinda sucks that I'm part of a competition judo club because everyone plays with olympic rules. the funny thing being everybody plays with the olympic rules and complains every step of the way about how much they hate them.
>>1441857
how many times have you subbed someone with an ezekiel while in their guard? oh none because you don't train? ok.
>>1442226
Regardless of those both being judo, bjj guys start doing kata guruma and call it the fireman carry, and claim that they invented it. They do this with everything and bjj noobs don't know better.
The first one is how it is done in kata, and what the bjjers use, the second one is what is taught in competitive judo clubs.
>>1442652
it's actually one of my highest percentage attacks, it will work almost without fail the first time you do it because nobody thinks they can be choked like that from inside their own guard until it's too late. You just need to stack the guy first and slide it right in
and it pisses people the fuck off because its embarrassing to get wrecked like that
>>1442053
>>1442965
>>1442982
>>1443002
>>1443023
>>1443036
>>1443057
>>1443080
>>1443102
>>1443133
>>1443148
Whats neat about the no leg grab is how people introduced and modified the moves and practically invented new moves
a) no leg grab/duck under kata gurama
b) mongol lift
c)reverse seoi nage
>>1442673
But the fireman's carry was a wrestling move. Kano picked up on it from a wrestling textbook and included it as one of the first throws in judo. My point is that this lineage shit is retarded. Who cares who invented which technique?
So can anyone break down the gripping sequence to hit the fireman's carry legally in Olympic judo? I love it in wrestling but I feel like I don't get the same leverage without the leg
>>1443002
>>1443314
>>1443314
HS wrestling coach and judo nidan here,
Since you got a wrestling background, the principles are similar to that of our duck under, in terms of footwork,
now in terms of gripping
I am going tor refer you to this youtube,
https://youtu.be/CnDKsRT9hk8
At about the 3 min mark he talks about the most crucial grip for the modified kata guruma, and that's controlling and gripping right on the shoulder, So instead of gripping the lapel, you have the shoulder, next as you do your duck under movement, the sleeve hand is going to grip the wrist and shove it between uke's legs.
Note though, the sleeve grip depending on how quick your feet were, or if uke starts defending, you can modify the grip, instead of shoving it between the legs, you can apply more pressure to one leg and throw them over.
>>1443489
>>1443489
Another thing to, if you're good and quick with doing a duck under, then the 2nd grip on the wrist is superfluous and you can start a scramble similar to
>>1442982
>>1443002
In both examples it was the footwork of the duckunder that caused the momentum for the takedown,
Finally say you're not quick with your duck under and uke is defending by stepping back their hips you can use your lead leg to trip them out like in this BJJ match
https://youtu.be/TgmfGJQI-5E?t=1m25s
or in this 1995 EU judo championship match
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ebmp_Xa82ZM
This "new variant" as you can see has been in judo for awhile (recorded 95) its a Sambo throw in origin/russian wrestling throw in origin
Here's a masterclass clinic from a USSR olympian teaching the variant
1 min mark he talks about the 2 on 1 grip
1:30 min mark he talks about using the leg trip follow up
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=71GoWRP1f6A
>>1443221
reverse seoi has been around before the ban, I think the koreans have always liked it
>>1444707
what's a reverse seoi?
>>1444719
I think they're talking about a specific entry into kata guruma. If you don't know it, don't try to learn it here.
judo is still watered down.
So let's say I'm starting as I'm turning 20 in a month or two
Would it be too late for me to have any sort of competitive life with a grappling sport?
Also should I do judo or bjj?
I have a place by me who has a former president of the US judo association or whatever it's called and an mma place with a former UFC fighter (I forget the name I think it's Dan something)
Also while I'm not fat I'm certainly not in shape, should I spend time training first or jump right in?
Poorfag here, what's the easiest sport to self train?
I'm leaning towards freestyle wrestling, is this my best bet or do i have no chance?
>>1445482
Every guy has a free trail period X gyms =
: D free trailing for a bit.
BJJ uses a ton of judo. Almost every lesson of the day starts out with a judo take down. Judo is an essential to BJJ, but Judo itself is over after the take down is made. Judo majors people could probably win the majority of the take downs, but in BJJ that's just a technical advantage. I found judo to be more smiling fun, and BJJ to be more serious. In fact 90% of people seem to disappear before they can make the next level in BJJ. Once I made it there there I was skilled enough to totally beat any none bjj initiated no matter what.
>>1445522
please no sarcastic comments, i know i wont really get good. i just want some at home exercise with a sport who's basics are simple enough for even a self taught idiot to learn something about takedowns.
>>1445482
Freestyle masturbation
A conversation I had recently got me thinking, is it really that big a deal to not put alot of effort in ranking up? Ive had freestyle wrestling and a little judo experience for a while and training in BJJ off and on since last year so Im not a grappling beginner. When I first joined my local mma gym I rolled through most of the white and blue belts and no one really gave a shit. But just a week or so ago, a guy really gave me shit for it and said I was sandbagging because I walking around still a white belt but not with whitebelt experience. He may be right, but i never thought it was that big of a deal.
>>1445482
Unless you're also an autistic savant or have a friend to do it with, you'd be best off taking classes. Just general grappling tuff would probably be good though if all you have is a friend. By the way, boxing and judo are usually pretty cheap for martial arts, but their prices can still vary, so you could check out the places near you.
>>1415308
I've sparred with his wife, Otavia. Cool chick, will rip your heels off.
>>1445949
was it a weird moment realizing your crotch was touching a crotch his crotch touches all the time?
same with boob grabs
So I'm starting jiu jitsu today and i'm not ready to invest in a new gi yet
I own two judo gis. An old single weave that I've outgrown by a bit and a new double weave that's really bulky and heavy
Which one should I roll with untill I get a dedicated BJJ gi?
>>1446082
Double Weave.
>>1445578
As long as you don't compete as a white belt, promotion shouldn't be too much of an issue as far as I'm concerned. Within a club/school, people will know what level you truly are.
Besides, awarding ranks is the responsability of your trainer.
>>1445376
No it's not too late. Go to either gym and take a class. If you like it, then stick with it. You'll get in shape through your sport so don't bother trying to cut down before then.
>>1445542
Freestyle wrestling has a lot of intricacies and is complex. I do not see how you could learn much of anything, particularly wrestling, without a coach.
>>1445376
Don't do it, man. Wait another five years so you will be older and have even less experience for your age than someone who starts now will be. In fact, wait ten more years so you can start at age thirty and you have a mortgage, car payment, job, and maybe a family to split your time and attention
>>1445376
dan severen or dan henderson?
>That awkward feeling when you look around and you realize that you are by far the senior student tonight.
>>1447301
Looked it up, I messed up the name
It's Daron Cruickshank
They also have a bellator fighter named Jason Fischer
What gym do you guys think is better?
http://www.warriorway.com/
or
http://metrodetroitbjj.com/
![7ab3f96a1f2b1a57690cf6de914f7f61[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/KlQvOj1.jpg "7ab3f96a1f2b1a57690cf6de914f7f61[1].jpg")
>roses are red
>Violets are blue
>Alexa bliss just farted in this thread
>So STFU
>>1448642
That's a lot of good talent you've got in that gym. Certainly nothing to pass up if you're interested in competing in MMA.
>>1449706
Here's the gym's page itself if you wanted to give it a look
http://www.michigantt.com/
Bjj is essentially only ground techniques of Judo. I'd say that you should try a few places and find a teacher that works for you. I took Judo once upon a time and it had plenty of "ground fighting".
Try out teachers and see which styles you click with.
>>1449994
To add, I'm it's best to just take both. Complimentary arts are meant to be together. Maybe even try some aki Ju-jitsu
>>1444707
>>1444707
i think you might be right, its a modern invention though, i'm rather confident that it didn't debut or wasnt popularized till the Koreans introduced it around the later half of the 2000s.
>>1444719
Its a variant of drop seoi nage/drop shoulder throw, seoi nage is usually a forward throw, you throw them over your shoulder in front of you, reverse seoi nage is a variant where you go in but the throw is a backwards angle, another mind fuck is even with a rightie grip you are throwing them leftie. So everything is reverse.
Here's a regular seoi nage
>>1450116
Here's a beautiful "regular" drop seoi nage, drop means you fall to your knees unlike a regular one where you stay standing
This example here is stunning because the guy not only drops he does a wrestler's shot for the footwork which made the dropping action even more quick
>>1450118
>>1450118
And here's a reverse seoi nage
>>1450116
Wrong gif for the regular seoi nage
>>1450144
>>1450146
>>1450124
If used as an alternate entry to seoi, I learned that as the German entry long before the leg grab ban. I've also been taught a similar usage of the entry to hit kataguruma as coming from Sambo
>>1445578
If you're a white belt you cant really be sandbagging though. Sure youve been training for a year but your skillset is still in a white belt range
That changes if you're a colored belt pretending to be white though.
