Can someone please explain to me why Vince pushed Shawn Michaels so hard? It literally makes no fucking sense.
>exact opposite style Vince liked
>exact opposite physique
>complete pussy (he's the reason throwers are automatically kicked out now; he also lost every backstage shoot he had ever been in)
>pill popper
>drunk
>would show up minutes before a show
>complete asshole to literally everyone (yes, even the kliq and Vince)
>refused to do a job for people more over than him and twice his size in their own hometown
>never drew a dime, infamously didn't come close to selling out his hometown of San Antonio
>terrible at marketing himself, literally no one outside of wrestling knows who he is
I am NOT saying he was a bad wrestler. What I am saying is that I couldn't have been more perplexed by Vince's choice to make him the face of the company if he had picked Doink the Clown.
>>1372299
He gave amazing head.
>Judging individual wrestlers on drawing power, rather than using a combination of wrestlers, market situation and other organisations
He's also the best wrestler in history, so kill yourself
>>1372319
>never drew a dime
>best wrestler
el o el
He had a tight asshole
>>1372322
Yes
>>1372322
>A wrestler draws, rather than a promotion
Stay worked
>>1372334
>and said wrestler almost drove the WWF into the ground
>>1372336
>that technique
If I was Vince I would push him aswell
>>1372337
nWo and WCW almost drove them into the ground, Shawn was the only thing keeping them afloat
Shawn was as tall as Austin and was in great shape in his prime. His look is the one thing people should never question.
>>1372343
Yeah and that's because HBGay was their top "star".
>>1372362
>literally pulling better ratings than RAW is now
>>1372300
First post = Best post
>>1372319
>best wrestler in history
>not Kurt Angle
Just kill your own fucking self.
>>1372299
Get over it Bret it's been 19 years
>>1372428
Kurt was a better technical wrestler, but Shawn put on better matches
WM 10,12,19,20,21,23,24,25,26 are all amazing
>>1372299
If you are the boss of a company, and you make the Top Guy someone who has flawless in-ring technique and locker room support, then they become dangerously influential within your own organisation.
If you promote someone to the top spot who could have gotten there through their own talents and hard work, rather than as a favour given by you, they are going to be less grateful and compliant.
However, if you put a guy on top who KNOWS deep down that he doesn't deserve it, then that guy is going to be YOUR GUY for the rest of his career. He won't make trouble with you, because he knows he owes his own phony existence all to you.
tl;dr: Good management strategy.
>>1372479
>Shawn doesn't deserve the top spot
Maybe he wouldn't have got their without a bit of ass kissing, but he was a hard worker and put of amazing matches, even with guys he hated. And in the end, who else would could he have picked? Taker?
>>1372485
> in the end, who else would could he have picked?
Literally anyone. The list of Top Guys over the last 35 years shows you don't need to be both talented in-ring AND on the mic. You can be one or other (or, indeed, neither):
>Hogan
>Warrior
>HBretK
>Austin
>Rock
>HHH
>Angle
>Cena
>Punk
>Bryan
>Reigns
Around the start of what's now known as the New Generation you had HBK, Bret, Undertaker, Mr Perfect, Ted Dibiase, Macho Man, Davey Boy, Rick Martel, Razor Ramon, Diesel, Scott Steiner. Some of those were considered too established to be part of the next wave, some would have been clearly much worse than HBK at the top. But it's not right to say there were no other options on the table for Top Guy.
>>1372505
Half the guys you listed were in WCW when Shawn was the top guy, you know?
>>1372467
>Shawn put on better matches
Literally resthold + spot monkey matches.
Not top of the line, just average.
I would expect you to say that Michaels had better charisma, but holy shit, saying that he had better matches than Angle is next level of smark city.
>>1372508
Michaels' push began 1992; all those listed were still in WWF in 94. So any of those could have had the push that Michaels got. In reality, the reason so many of those guys were in WCW by the time HBK was on top in 96 was BECAUSE he was being pushed - he was a slice younger than most of them so they could see their chances in WWF were done, and they left. But any one of them could have been on the programme to the main event that HBK got 92-95. I think Bret, Hennig and Steiner all DESERVED it more, and I think Rick Martel would have been a more entertaining version of the same Heartbreak Kid character.
>>1372545
But they didn't treat everyone like shit and be on all kinds of drugs.
>>1372505
>HHH
Nice try Hunter
>>1372299
He was a faggot that was willing to offer up his ass. Fuck HBGay
>>1372300
fpbp
>>1372945
HHH has been a top guy by default at several transition points between other guys.
Vince was in legal troubles due to steroids at the time so after macho man, warrior and hogan he decided to go with a smaller guy representing the company to help his case.
>>1372299
You need to be over 18 to post here.
HBK had a Polaroid of vince sucking his dick
Vince was bombing with Bret and Diesel so he tried HBK.
>>1374607
He actually succeeded too, comparatively. Nobody bought tickets to see Bret or Diesel, but Shawn managed to turn them back in the big cities especially at MSG.
>>1372300
/thread
>>1373095
True. He tried Bret and failed. Then went to big guy Diesel and failed. Then went to HBK who was a moderate success, drawing big house shows.
>>1374608
Lol nice revisionist history m8, shawn couldnt even sell out his literal hometown of San Antonio
The only time Shawn sold out MSG was when he was in the main event against bret and taker, as soon as bret went on hiatus ratings fell to an all time record low that still stands today
>>1374658
Only time Bret sold out a Canadian arena was.. oh wait.. there's zero excuse here. He never did.
The fact is, Shawn packed buildings and Bret never did. Suck it down and eat it, Bretcuck.
>>1374661
If that was the case, Vince wouldn't have screwed Bret in favor of Michaels.
Try again Bretloser.
>>1372343
> Shawn was the only person keeping them afloat
Bullshit. he drove everyone else away with his bitch shit and nearly killed the company when it was just him left. he even tried to bury austin
If shawn didnt break his back and retire then we would be posting in /wcw/ today
> ALLTIME RECORD LOW RATINGS
>>1374664
Shawn drew bigger gates than Bret or Diesel combined
>>1374660
> he never did
Sauce now pls. Dont throw around garbage if you cant back it up
>>1374669
Again, sauce now
The only time he could sell tickets was when Bret and Taker were there with him, he is the literal lowest drawing champion of all time
> cant even sell out his hometown
Lol pathetic
>>1374663
Vince screwed HBGay a lot more often than he did Bret.
>>1374672
Look it up
Shawn drew bigger houses and that's why Vince chose him over Bret
>>1374679
The usual house show hype that surrounds every new champion soon died down like it did with everyone else, carry on nitpicking tho by all means
When bret was champion he had no other stars to help him with except taker. He had old shitters like lawler and backland.
Shawn had Bret, Taker and an emerging Austin
Also
> house shows
> meaning more than tv ratings
> meaning more than ppv buys
> meaning more than ppv tickets sold
Lol
He went with shawn because bret wouldnt let him fuck his arse
>>1374684
>still making excuses for Bret's piss-poor drawing record in 1994
Look bruh, just admit that Shawn drew more people to the arenas and we'll be cool
>>1374685
Shawn literally couldn't even sellout his hometown
>>1374685
Bret was best of his era, Shaw couldnt even sell out San Antonio and his face run is well known to be one of the worst runs of all time
Only homos and women liked Shawn. Which one are you?
Going on house show attendance, Bret was able to fare quite well during the more challenging times for the company.
At (1) on the graph, he was carrying the belt when Hogan left the company and won the WCW championship on his debut, taking with him a whole bunch of fans. But even then Bret turns it around, and actually increases interest and sales considerably from their starting points on each of his other reigns.
On the other hand, Shawn "Downtick" Michaels had a visibly negative effect on the sales figures and, even when embroiled in the biggest pro wrestling storyline of all time, the Screwjob (2 on the graph), he sheds attendance figures almost immediately once the hype has died down over the event.
Incidentally, the use of attendance figures to reflect the worth of a champion is not necessarily valid. Look at Austin - his reigns all saw diminishing attendances, but most people are on board with the idea of him as champ.
>>1374692
B T F O
T
F
O
>>1374691
Overall, the "playboy" and "Lady's man" type personas play the worst among female fans. HBK, Rick Rude, etc do not get a female fanbase. Those cutaways they used to do to a pretty lady taking a photo were things they would have found a few minutes in advance and dropped them in at the right time.
Anecdotally, the "Rock Star / Icon" personas seem the most popular with women - Jericho, The Rock, Bret Hart.
>>1374692
More excuses.
Shawn drew bigger houses than Shitman, and that's really all there is to it.
>>1374697
>Rick Rude, etc do not get a female fanbase.
Are you sure?
>>1374701
You're not even trying any more jmarlow
>>1374697
HBK and Rick Rude in the same sentence makes no sense. HBK drew houses, Rick Rude didn't.
Bret Hart drew hajeeds and retards, HBK drew men and women.
shawn is cool
>>1374702
Like I said, those would be inserts, filmed in advance and dropped in at the right moment. There's just no way to cue up a close-up of an audience member (who isn't an actor) to provide the reaction needed during a live broadcast.
The producer says "Camera 3: find me a lusting female out in the crowd!"
And Camera three goes "There's one!"
And the producer says "No, not now! In 41 seconds time, when Rick takes his gown off!"
And camera three says "Well, I will film it now, because she's probably gonna have finished licking the ketchup off of her lips in 30 seconds time...."
And then the clip is dropped into the edit as it's needed.
>>1374697
>lumping based Ri-Ru in with HBFag
kys
>>1374707
You sound like you're 14 and you decided you like HBK the most because you find his moves the easiest to win with on Playstation.
>>1374692
>several thousand more on average than anyone in the 1990's
>"downtick"
Maybe a downtick compared to Hogan in the 80's, but what is your point?
>>1374712
>being this new
The narcissist / lady's man is one of the most successful heel gimmicks of all time. It's been used hundreds of times, and HBK and Rick Rude are two key examples of it. You're either troll posting or you have only watched PG era if you don't know this already.
>>1374692
>tfw Shawn's "downtick" was still higher than Hulk Hogan's best 1991 number.
We'll take it, senpai
>>1374717
kys
>>1374714
Read the post and you'll see the point. The 97 spike was wholly down to the Montreal Screwjob. It can't be overstated how massive that story was when it happened, and it attracted new and returning fans back to WWF after many years.
But Shawn didn't convert that into long term attendance growth.
>>1374722
>You can't talk about HBK and Rick Rude together!!!
>What is DX?
>>1374719
Again, the volume is not what concerns directors of business, it's the trajectory.
Shawn was a guy who would act as a throttle on company growth. The figures demonstrate this. Had there been anyone else on hand to take over his reign, think how much higher that Mankind all-time peak could have been - without the HBK downticks.
>>1374726
Doesn't matter. He still drew bigger houses as champ, even pre-Screwjob, and it's documented.
>>1374730
Again, more excuses. "What if". The fact is, HBK did better house show business than any preceding champion not named 80's Hogan.
>>1374731
In a programme that was focused on Bret Hart, yes. The downtick after the hype surrounding the Screwjob had died away is hard fact that fans had bought in to the storyline, based on the premise that Shawn would not be going over as the Top Guy.
The plummeting attendance after it became clear Shawn was booked for a longterm title reign shows this.
>>1374732
And again, that is not how market analysis works. High volume is less significant than trajectory for short-term decision making. Because if you have high volume, and are heading into a steep decline, then that equals high volume losses, too.
So you can look at it that way if you like: Shawn took over while the company was riding high, but his reign was responsible for the fastest, highest volume losses in attendance since Ric Flair.
>>1374729
kys
>>1374739
And again, you're overlooking the fact that HBK did better house show business than Hart. You can make all the excuses in the world but it will never change that.
>>1374740
>losing this many times and still coming back for more
I genuinely feel bad for you about this. I feel like Rocky in the I Quit match.
>>1374743
But he objectively did not do better. I think you're getting really confused by the fact he took over during the good times, and so all his lines begin higher up on the chart.
That is not a part of his reign.
If you normalise their reigns to all begin at zero, then you can see the Hart reigns are characterised by a sharp and dramatic uptick almost immediately.
Shawn tends to get an initial negative reaction, followed by fast, but moderate growth, which is then normalised with a sharp decline during each reign.
>>1374753
He objectively did, though.
Shawn's low was better than Bret's high. Hell, it was better than anyone's high to that point in the 1990's.
You can bleat like the cuck that you are all you want, but it doesn't change the facts.
>>1374747
kys
>>1374754
I cannot tell if you are trolling me now, or just never did statistical analysis at school. You have to normalise the results. If you do that, you see HBK had a net impact of virtually zero. It might even be a negative impact, but this rough graph is too blocky to accurately tell.
Bret has a significantly positive impact on company fortunes, due to the steep upticks that characterise each reign, and the only moderate downwards corrections.
Please, I am begging you: never speculate on the stock market until you've done a bit more maths.
>>1374756
Requesting mods to filter "kys" so that it now reads "I Quit".
>>1374762
It's almost like I have to spell it out for you cucks. Deal with it already.
>>1374763
kys
>>1374764
>MASSIVE SELF-OWN
I am quite happy with that. Anybody who can work with statistics can read your graph and see where the growth is on those highlighted sections, and see that it is all Bret Hart.
>>1374769
Actually if you read the graphs, Ahawn had more growth than Austin. But keep trying hard bretcuck, I'm sure some sap will believe you sooner or later.
>>1374775
The Austin anomaly was literally pointed out in the post that initially posted the graph. Keep up.
>>1374779
As long as you keep up with the graph.
Shawn higher than Bret.
>>1374764
Bret's late 1995-WM 12 doesn't even count either. The house shows were all drawn by Shawn at that time.
Which makes Bret's 1994 run seem even more pathetic.
>>1374783
As long as you keep misunderstanding the graph: Vacated higher than Shawn.
For the third and last time: The starting point is next to meaningless for this discussion. You can only read the impact of individual champs by normalising each title reign to start at the zero mark. If you do that, Bret is responsible for considerable growth in the company's fortunes, whereas by my estimates, Shawn is responsible for a shade positive growth, but it's essentially neutral.
>>1374786
For the eighth and (maybe) last time: Shawn's numbers are higher than Bret's. It's really as simple as that. You can make all the excuses in the world but it will never ever change the facts.
>>1374788
This. And we're not even counting the times that Shawn worked on top in house shows in the 2000's while Bret was home jerking off to Stampede tapes.
>>1374788
For the final time: You cannot attribute a higher starting point to being down to that person's effort. That you are taking such an intellectually dishonest position demonstrates that you KNOW you have no valid argument that is based on actual performance, and you're now just trying to save face by hoping that casual readers of the thread will glance at the graph and go "Yup, those Shawn lines is higher up the side bar".
In terms of actual trajectory and performance, the graph demonstrates Bret was able to reverse failing fortunes, while Shawn was able to reverse good fortunes.
I know which one I would be more proud of.
>>1374801
For the ninth time: Shawn drew better houses than Bret. End of story(?)
Go cry about it but it is what it is.
>>1374815
Reminder that Shawn drew higher houses than Bret, and the only MSG sellout came when Shawn was on top and Bret/Taker weren't even on the card.
>>1374764
>For a breakdown, of the non-TV tapings, shows advertised around Roman Reigns averaged 3,140, shows advertised around John Cena (he wasn’t there due to injuries but the tickets were sold based on him) averaged 4,300 and shows built around Kane vs. Bray Wyatt averaged 2,750.
Holy shit, the house shows are shitting the bed once again.
>>1374819
They're almost as bad as Bret Hart in 1994.
>>1374764
You are comparing the New Generation Era/Cartoon Era, one of the worst WWF era ever, which saw drove of fans leaving for the WcW, to the beginning of the Atitude Era.
>>1374817
Thats a complete lie, i looked it up last time
The MSG main event was bret and taker vs shawn and whoever, probably diesel
>>1372300
This, Vince is gay
