Bird thread.
Mammals and fish need not apply.
Reptiles technically ok.
How about monotremes?
I really want some amber with a feather in it.
I've wanted a bird for years. Been thinking of getting a green cheek conure. Honestly would prefer a cockatoo but the screams are too loud.
I'm just worried what if birds aren't for me and I lose interest in it. I don't want it to bond and then get heartbroken if I had to rehome it.
I've handled birds a lot but never owned one. I dont know
>>2027826
I'm gonna assume you meant cockatiel since a cockatoo is a full-on big boy Macaw sized bird that runs 1-2k$ and is quite a step up from a ~100$ conure and certainly not a good beginner bird in any case. Anyway green cheeks make fantastic pets since they're smart, friendly, and really brave considering their size, not to mention they're really adaptable to your schedule. It's hard for me to say just go do it when really it's an up to 30 year commitment to take care of what amounts to a tiny flying 3 year old child but I can say it's really hard to lose interest in the adorable little bastards especially when they're so interested in you.
This seems like a good thread to ask.
I plan on buying a budgie soon, but I was wondering if they're as smart as other birds/respond to being taken out of cages as well, as I plan to get it out fairly often and teach it tricks and shit.
Speaking of birds, has anyone here owned ducks as pets? I'd love to have a couple some day if I ever have a yard where I can let them swim
>>2027912
ducksaspets dot org
I knew a girl who had one. Apparently a lot more affectionate than you would think.
>>2027826
i have a green cheek, and i can't imagine getting tired of her... she's like a tiny dog with feathers, except way easier (for me) to take care of than a dog
>>2027907
there's smarter birds, but budgies are good pets and they're capable of learning tricks and commands... they need out of the cage time every day (even if they aren't tame yet they'll go back to their cage on their own) the same as any other parakeet/parrot + a lot of attention if it's just one
if you don't want to go through the taming process (which can take a while depending on the bird) get a handraised one from a breeder (they're not the easiest to find) and if not go for an easier to tame baby
>>2027916
I was planning on buying from a breeder.
Is buying a relatively young, male budgie a good idea?
Mammals are reptiles.
>>2027948
mm no
>>2027931
getting from a breeder is best, since handraised birds are automatically ready to just bond, but a young budgie of either gender works... males can be friendlier and more easily tamed though, just on average
but when they're handraised it doesn't make a huge difference, and girls are generally significantly quieter (male budgies make noise nearly all day, personally i think it's pleasant and like it since it's mostly singing, but if that's something you wouldn't be cool with keep that in mind... my budgies are noisier than my green cheek)
>>2027931
Young birds adapt and bond easily so yes. In my experience boys are friendlier, more active, and chatter all the time where girls are smarter, chill, and rarely chatter or sing. Either is a good choice and can be trained however you like.
>>2027845
I've always been yearning for an umbrella cockatoo since they are incredibly cuddly. But I also know they're loud and prone to throwing tantrums. I can't help but love the big fluffy beasts though.
I found a female pineapple cheek conure for $375 from a breeder, debating getting her.
>>2028166
i like cockatoos too, (my uncle had one when i was a kid, who was about as well behaved/well adjusted as they get... wasn't cuddly though, just liked his head being pet)but they're not great as pets for most people, and even people who can handle them have a hard time with it and have to live around their bird completely...
my green cheek (pic related) is extremely cuddly though, she's on my shoulder right now... she'll cuddle with my s/o and i all the time, and anyone who she meets who's up for it...
>>2028173
+ another pic
posting bird bath. pls tell how to get good webms
hq webm: https://my.mixtape.moe/itvpem.webm
So my bird has moths/some insect coming from his cage. I find their larvae around occasionally, but I can never fully get rid of them. Is there a good way to kill them?
Guys, I wanna get a laughing dove but I work from 6-6.
How can I make her not go crazy from loneliness while I'm away?
>>2028173
Is there any personality difference between male gcc's and females? I know it's bad to pet the lower back of a female because of sexual tension.
>>2028944
mine is a girl, and i've never been around a boy conure, but i did read from several people that with conures gender has no real effect on personality...
Does anyone have any experience with birds that are afraid of hands and can give me some tips or advice?
I recently got a cockatiel and he won't let my hands anywhere near him. He doesn't bite, he just shuffles away (or flaps and panics if I move fast towards him). I'm not expecting him to snuggle with me, I just want to be able to teach the step up command at least so he can be moved without stress if necessary.
>>2029014
I have the same problem, although mine is much older.
>>2027845
What about a goffin or bare-eyed cockatoo for a first pet?
Whats the general consensus on caiques?
>>2027950
They are though. Similar to how birds are considered dinosaurs because they come from dinosaurs, so can mammals be considered reptiles, because they come from reptiles.
>>2029541
/an/ subscribes to the extremely recent revision that states "Reptilia" is a clade containing Aves but excluding synapsids.
This view is resurrected at least once a decade by some poor sucker and usually survives 16 months before being once again laughed off the face of the planet. Unfortunately according to Wikipedia we seem to be in one of those 1.333... year cycles, and there's little to be done about it except hold steady and wait for it to go away for the tenth time.
>>2029436
Caiques are FUCKING high energy, they like to play rough (hand wrestling and rolling around), they're hilarious to watch, and very curious and beaky.
They have a strong bite for their size, and a strong chewing instinct, so lots of destructible toys are the way to go. They also love foot toys - if you compare a bird of a similar size they have huge feet, and are very acrobatic. Mine likes to hang upside down from my finger with one toe and look at me with her beady little eye. Actually, any time she's curious about something she tends to slowly slide around the perch till she's upside down and watch from that position.
They can get very hormonal after a couple of years, they can go from happy to furious very quickly, they're prone to having tantrums.
However, they're smart, very food-motivated and really easy to train. They need a lot of supervised time out of their cage so they can burn off their energy.
I would say they're challenging for their size. They're also not good talkers, but damn are they fun to watch.
Pic related, my own shitmachine when she was little.
Sorry for rambling.
>>2029547
>but excluding synapsids.
most paleontologists don't consider proto-mammals reptiles.
there's only 2 that do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_fZg8o-a2E
>>2029577
Noise level?
>My Stepdad gave away my cockatiel 13 years because he couldn't stand the noise
It still hurts
>>2029805
>stepdad
why didn't you kick his ass??
>>2029972
he was obviously enjoying the sex too much.
>>2027826
Cockatiels are great, I have 2 getting another. Once you get them whistling and singing its great
>>2029014
Hand feed him millet. Do this for months. And don't be afraid to offer the top of your hand or move your finger under him.
>>2029309
Cockatoo may be worst first time pet possible. Budgies or hand tamed tiles for that.
>>2028944
No difference that I've seen.
>>2029014
Go slow as fuck. Hand feeding treats is a good way to prove that your hands won't immediately kill them, after a week or two of that start holding the treats up over an outstretched hand or finger so he has to step on it to reach while repeating step up. Pushing that finger up against his belly right above his legs may help him get the hint if he's reluctant but not running away. Stick with it and be patient, tiels are fairly smart so he should catch on quick and even if he doesn't they're not big biters, I swear mine doesn't even know how.
>>2029805
I can't imagine, mine rarely even whistles except when I leave for work or go to the bathroom.
Cockatiels or green cheeks as first pets? I also live in an apartment so theres that
Did someone say bird thread?
>>2029781
Not on the same level as cockatoos or macaws, but you know when you hear a shrill sound that's so loud it sort of distorts in your ears? That's about the level of their alarm call. It's not as abrasive as a sun conure's though, and they shouldn't do it too often. Their contact call is not as loud.
They are vocal. They have a piggy squeal which they do if they're pissed off (YouTube "the argument caique").
My caique generally has a lot to do and is out of her cage most of the time, so she's pretty quiet. The purring noise they make when they're eating something tasty is adorable. Generally I would say medium to loud.
what are some good birds that cant fly, like chickens but no emus.
I read green cheek conure mutations change their personality. Like "normals" are the friendliest, turquoise are the most aloof, pineapples are between, etc. Sounds like bullshit...right?
>>2029014
i've dealt with it with budgies, just a lot of patience and holding food works... once they're used to eating from your hands they're more likely to let you touch them
also try putting your hand as close as you're allowed without the bird looking uncomfortable then leave it in that spot for a bit (stay still) and try again... do this for a little while then stop and wait 'til the next day or later to continue (don't want to upset them too much) eventually you can pet them...
>>2030657
i think a green cheek could be a first pet, though they're a bit harder than a budgie (who make great pets, and a good first pets so don't necessarily rule them out) cuz they do have a high attention requirement... mine likes chilling and cuddling with me a lot, and she's extremely playful (she likes to roll down my arm then slide around on her back and kick at me with her feet while she makes this laughing noise a lot)
they're pretty quiet too, mine mostly chatters, purrs, and makes a kissing noise for everything occasionally she'll make a loud sound, but nothing that'd make her a big deal in an apartment...
my experience with cockatiels is limited to the one i got my uncle for christmas, and they're good first pets i'm sure, and they're cute... but personally i think it's kinda boring and i probably wouldn't like one, not to judge them all based on one but bird species do generally have some similar behaviours
like it's laid back, and it'll climb on anyone's shoulder and just chill with them... but it gets moody if it gets pet for more than a minute or so and hisses then goes right back to chilling when you move your hand, it isn't really playful (just in its cage), it doesn't really have a ton of personality the way my green cheek (or even my budgies) does... it's like...if you want a pet that will sit with you all day, and not really give a fuck about much then it's pretty great,but it's like a cat with feathers, green cheeks are more like dogs
>>2030998
>>2030657
+ i prefer budgies to cockatiels as well personally... i've had 5 budgies in my life (2 males now, i had a male/female pair, and i had one as a kid) and they've all been great birds, and they're entertaining even if they aren't tame... so if a green cheek seems like a bit much for you i'd actually recommend a budgie over a cockatiel... unless that sort of behaviour is ok with you (my s/o had a cockatiel as a kid and said my uncle's is pretty similar... and in spite of considering getting another one at one point he's also turned off of the idea now that he was around one again... but he calls our green cheek his "perfect angel" and absolutely loves her + wants one or 2 more budgies) cuz my uncle does really love his bird, and i could see how a cockatiel is better for some people...
>>2030729
thanks
>>2030997
i've heard that (though not that "normals" are the friendliest, heard they tend to be nippiest), but i've heard significantly more people say green cheeks are green cheeks and the colour is just a matter of looks which i'm more inclined to believe... my pineapple is extremely friendly, and not at all aloof... she's the only conure i've been around though so i suppose i don't have the best sample size to go on
>>2030998
Would it be ok to get 2 green cheeks?
>>2031008
birds bond closer with each other when they're in pairs usually, though i've seen people with multiple green cheeks where they're both still tame (they usually get one first, bond, then get the other later)
i personally wouldn't right now cuz i enjoy the bond i have with her, and she loves budgies so she still gets to have friends she can do bird shit with like fly around + company when we aren't home
though i've seen people with conures who just get jealous of each other cuz they want the most attention from everyone (that's one thing about conures they love attention, and preferably all of it from every other animal and human they meet) and the bond isn't at all affected by another one being there (probably different when you get a pair to start though), but my s/o and i have talked about it, and we would get another green cheek if gypsy ever seemed lonely or our lives changed and she was home alone more often for whatever reason (unlikely i have a lot of health issues so i'm home often, and we just take her out with us when the weather is acceptable... people in stores and restaurants etc have been completely cool with her)
i imagine two would probably be a handful right away though, they're kinda stubborn and there is a nippy phase that you gotta get through (gypsy's was at about 3 months old and lasted 2 weeks) so i wouldn't recommend it
>going to make a CYOA soon
>at one point, the MC gets some magical wings, that gives him/her the hablility to transform into birds
QUICK /AN/! I NEED YOUR FAVORITE BIRD, THEIR FOOD, LIFETIME AND FLIGHT PATTERNS
>>2031075
Favorite bird would be the bald eagle, it eats pumpkin pie like a real american it lives 20 free years in the wild and its flight patterns is that it soars like a true patriot
>>2031008
Dunno if I'd get two right off the bat, they're a bit like having very young children so it's doubly difficult especially if you don't have any experience. They're not like budgies, they don't die without enough social contact though they do get skittish and moody. They will go through a bitey stage at some point and as the other anon above noticed they tend to be jealous birds so if you do want two it's best to space out your purchases by 6 months to a year to cut down on the fighting a bit.
>>2031075
Just use the bearded vulture, everybody's favorite meme bird.
>>2028538
is it coming from their food? or toys??
Who here /parrotlet/?
Someone said birds...Hi I 'm Ridley the Lovebird.
Lovebirds are cuddle monsters...
>>2029541
mammals are the sister group to reptiles, so no, they aren't reptiles
Anyone have experience with diamond doves? I've wanted one for some time but I read conflicting information about their temperament.
I want a bird bro who will chill with me but some sources say they will never like people while other say they will bond to you if they don't have a bird partner. I was planning on getting a male so I wouldn't have to worry about egg laying issues that may arise.
I would love to get a tiny parrot type but my partner grew up hating his sister's cockatiel so I have to stick with quiet friends.
>>2031920
never had a dove, but i've heard they can be sweet... idk how they are with bonding though
my uncle's cockatiel makes a lot of constant noise, but my green cheek is pretty damn quiet... i've taken her outside and people have asked if she was fake cuz she stays on my shoulder and doesn't make a sound... all birds make noise sure, but for the most part she just clucks, purrs, and makes kissing noises... and occasionally louder noises, but nothing that drives anyone crazy... i had a female budgie who was extremely quiet as well, she'd sing a little here and there every day but for the most part she was relatively silent... my male budgies on the otherhand sing and say "i love you" nearly nonstop all day, which i think is pleasant but i could see how someone could find them annoying... they're also 10x louder than my green cheek even though she's capable of being pretty loud if she wanted
>>2031931
+ actually now that i think about it, while i was out with my bird once an older woman came over to me, and told me about a dove she used to have that would go with her everywhere... she only had a single dove, and from what it sounded like they had an extremely close bond... idk if that's the standard or not, but yeah...
>>2031485
>Just use the bearded vulture, everybody's favorite meme bird
Sure, why not
I got this Male Budgie about a week ago. He still seems kinda depressed from being removed from a bunch of birds. He rarely chirps and doesn't really play with any of his toys. I figured he is still getting settled in, but I'm not sure. Can anyone give me some advice? If he does't perk up in a week or so, I'm thinking of getting him a buddy to play with.
>>2032061
fixed pic
>>2032063
How much 1 on 1 time does he get?
Do you let him leavehis cage?
If you get him a buddy they will bond with each other, not you
>>2032100
I talk to him several times a day.
He doesn't really want to leave his cage, and he is still very hesitant of me. Sometimes I just leave the cage door open and he just sits there.
>>2032132
I'd say try eating with him, just sit by the cage with your lunch or what not.
That was how I got my birds to open up to me, if they see you eating they'll relax and at some point might want to see whats so tasty.
>>2032142
Do you let them have a nibble of whatever you're eating? Just enough for them to taste? How long did it take yours to get used to you?
>>2032162
the cockatiels at the sherlter I'm at took about 3 days of eating in front of and whistle to/at for them to come over and dig in.
and birds can eat everything but onions, chocolate, chocolate and booze. let them dig in if they want.
>>2032206
Awesome, thanks!
Something happened at my home today, I feel it ain't worth its own thread so Im gonna explain it here since it relates with the thread's subject.
>mom calls me, tells me the dog caught a bird
>took the bird, suprisingly it ain't hurt, its really young, like it just came out of the egg couple hours ago, my guess was that the wind threw it out of its nest
>believe the bird is -pic related-
>kept looking for a nest close from where stupid dog had it
>after looking around the yard find one single nest, in a lemon tree
>problem is...it's a dove's nest
>best option at the moment seemed to be to leave the small bird there
>shoo the dove away and leave the small bird there
>came to check an hour after
>dove is there, so is the bird in question, the small bird is still crying, moving its little wings and its poking the dove as if it was desperately begging for his life
>the dove is just there, chilling, ignoring the constant poke and begging of the small bird
>all this happened around 1pm
>already 8pm
>went to check again
>dove is there but can't see/hear the smallbird, although its hard to see because the nest is really up
Is it possible that the dove shrugs off the fact that the bird aint of the same species and ends "adopting" it? It didn't seemed bothered at all by the presence of the bird in the nest.
>>2031179
Stop treating the bald eagle like a meme.
Fuck you.
i like birb
But birds are technically reptiles
>>2032303
Nice bait, go jerk off to your dinosaur thread.
>>2032242
Highly unlikely.
>>2032242
if the dove didn't knock it out, and the doves potential fledglings didn't kick it out it probably jumped out itself being a retard.
>>2032336
>>2032348
It's still there thought I doubt the dove is feeding it. It looks like it's still alive, right?
>>2032236
And avocado. No avocado.
Hey birbs, I got a parakeet back in November, and she's still super uncomfortable around me, seeming super unhappy whenever I'm near the cage and only climbing onto my finger after a while of trying to avoid it. Should I just let her chill or should I make a more active effort to acclimate her?
>>2032336
It's at least possible. Just look at the birds not noticing hugeass cuckoo chicks aren't theirs.
Doves feed their babies differently though so it likely wont work, call wildlife rehab
>>2032575
That baby is a dove. Though, if the parents are ignoring it, and it's crop is not bulging in the long amount of time it's been in the nest, I would suggest taking it to a rehab center. For it's best chance. Baby birds need to eat CONSTANTLY, so , the sooner the better, if they aren't taking care of it.
/k/ here, bumping with a qt I got on craigslist.
Birb + cage for $200.
>>2033344
I got mines for free. Leave cage door open and one a day lovebird is inside expecting water and food.
>>2027912
They will tear up your grass. I raised muscovies, Indian runners and pekings. Spring comes, they will dig into the dirt looking for grubs. They will ruin whatever patch of land you give them. I had to pen mine up just to save my yard. Also, muscovies will fucking hide. I lost two to Hawks because the dumbasses would hide in the trees until everyone else was put away.
>>2028538
Millets. Like little bitty moths? Change any seeds you give them daily. And make sure you keep the food in a sealed container. Millets are the fucking devil.
>>2028538
Sounds like pantry moths.
Just seal upo there food and freeze it for a day or 2 and you should kill what evere eggs are there.
empty and wash the food bowls daily for a week as well and you should be alright.
>>2029972
I was 8 and he's 6'6
Pretty sure this is the animal equivalent of blackface
>>2029972
Can you kill him now?
>>2033906
that's not too old to set fire to his car
How dangerous is bird keepers lung?
>>2034148
>kill
Can't we just fuck with the guy instead? I mean I'd have nothing but hate for someone like that too but does he need to be killed? At least he didn't just chuck the cage outside and say "Fuck you"
>>2033924
That lady bird must think this is the hottest thing ever.
>>2030745
What's Falconry like anyway?
I've heard it's a ton of work and essentially a full-time job that's really hard.
How can you punish a bird?
I don't want to have to use the cage as a deterrent but besides that what can I do?
Do birds have emotions? I've never owned a bird but a family member has one and his bird always seems happy. Are they capable of happiness, or is it just a coincidence and I'm projecting human emotions onto an animal?
>>2034638
they definitely can
>>2034639
>they definitely can
[citation needed]
>>2034640
I refuse to start the self awareness, mirror test conversation with you.
>>2034638
they are as emotional developed as a toddler, they can be happy, sad, angry and lonely
>>2034638
usually an unhappy bird will self mutilate (feather plucking), and act depressed
I own an amazon and am moving into my first home soon.
I will have a few acres and was thinking about setting up a chicken coop to get fresh eggs. Is there any risk of spread of disease between the chickens and parrots?
The coop will be at least 100' away from home and where I plan on building the outdoor aviary.
>>2034659
Aside from magpies, there is no "evidence" of self awareness in birds, so all we can discuss is interpretations of their neurochemistry and behavior.
>>2034663
>so all we can discuss is interpretations of their neurochemistry and behavior.
you can't measure emotions in neurochemistry and behavior, only the instincts that cause them.
if there's no consciousness, there's no subjectivity, so there's no emotion just instinct.
so you're talking out of your ass I suppose?
>>2034659
If no other emotions they can be content, fear or anger.
When my parrots get what they want they just cuddle up with you and relax and appear to be just content with the world.
If they don't get what they want they will let you know about it.
If they happen to get startled by a bird of prey(or in my parrots case a ceiling fan) the coward in fear and get restless seeking safety.
>>2034673
>fear or anger.
you mean fight or flight instinct.
>>2034665
It is impossible to scientificaly test subjectivity, it's entirely a philosophical topic.
>>2034675
still emotional states
>>2034675
i think someone has an outdoor cat in another thread
>>2034679
They can't be tested.
Not even self recognition proves consciousness.
It's the philosophical zombie debate.
>>2034679
>implying people understand consciousness well enough to know how to test for it in a 100% error proof manner
>>2034685
you're shitting up a bird thread with high school tier metaphysics
please fuck off
>>2034685
it's completely relevant
>>2034685
>component of it
So is episodic memory and theory of mind, which is evident in a wider array of species than self recognition.
>>2034689
no.
if there's no evidence of it, it's not there, it doesn't matter if we understand it well enough.
until we do, it isn't there, until that time, you're talking out of your ass.
>>2034690
consciousness has many components.
I prefer going with relf-recognition and metacognition, those are the easiest ones.
>>2034777
if we don't understand something then none of the tests we conduct can properly prove or disprove it, they're essentially meaningless and using them to prove anything (which is what you're trying to do by asserting that animals do not experience emotions on any level and completely lack emotion, which btw a citation is needed you're making a claim and the burden of proof is on you)
just because you have your head firmly in your ass doesn't mean i'm talking out of mine, you're making claims with zero evidence to prove it about something humans can't properly comprehend let alone test for
as for feelings, they're chemical reactions, plenty of animals have brains that produce the same chemicals as a human brain, like oxytocin
making assumptions about how something can't possibly exist if there's no pre-existing evidence to show it is a completely unscientific and small minded way of thinking
when there's no evidence you seek it, when you can't fully comprehend something you try to in order to acquire actual knowledge
you can't seek or interpret evidence properly if you have no initial understanding of a subject, or you can but then you end up with the sort of shit you're spouting
you know, gross misinterpretations of things spoken as fact by someone who doesn't comprehend the subject matter
>>2034783
>making assumptions about how something can't possibly exist if there's no pre-existing evidence to show it is a completely unscientific and small minded way of thinking
that's actually sort of the basis of science.
we call it Occam's razor.
if we can't find evidence a thing exists, it's generally safe to assume it doesn't.
>>2034783
>if we don't understand something then none of the tests we conduct can properly prove or disprove it
you need evidence to assert emotions, so until that time you're talking straight out of your ass.
>which is what you're trying to do by asserting that animals do not experience emotions on any level and completely lack emotion
if there's no evidence of it, then they don't, it's as simple as that.
there's no middle-zone, they either do or they don't.
>you're making claims with zero evidence to prove it
I'm not making a claim, I'm simply replying to yours, and you're still struggling to find citation which I already asked for multiple times.
your entire post is a load of shit, come with citation or this conversation is over.
stop shitting up threads with your pseudo-science.
>>2034786
you're talking with someone who thinks spiders are capable of subjectivity.
his head is so far up his ass you can call him A. duodenale.
>>2034791
I'm not really interested in their views on subjectivity, I'm more curious about the type of thought that tells a person if they can't find evidence for a thing it probably exists.
the same thoughts that bring us god and bigfoot and lots of other silly bullshit. It's an interesting pattern. If reality actually has any effect on people, how did all these people manage to survive and reproduce by not believing in it? Or maybe they don't deny reality, they just add to it by including their fantasies? But then how does their belief in fantasy not manage to handicap their survival?
basically, how can people this dumb and deluded not only survive but thrive?
>>2034805
>ruling something out instantly because we don't know it yet is unscientific
ruling something out because there's no evidence for it is science.
>i never made a claim one way or another actually
>>2034639
>>2034648
>you're asserting that they don't with no citations proving as much
no I'm dismissing your claims because there's no citation for it.
>>2034805
>ruling something out instantly because we don't know it yet is unscientific,
the way it works is IF we can expect evidence of it to exist, and IF we've conducted a search for that evidence, and IF we haven't found that evidence,
THEN it's safe to rule out its existence.
Animal consciousness isn't some miraculous property that doesn't produce evidence of its existence. When it exists, it's pretty easy to spot.
>>2034813
>the way it works is
the way it works is how I just told you it works.
what you're describing is endlessly running in circles, it's how to pseudo-science.
>consciousness isn't some miraculous property that doesn't produce evidence of its existence.
until there's evidence for it, the animal doesn't have it.
there's no waiting list for consciousness.
>>2034807
>I'm dismissing your claims because there's no citation for it
soo... like when you never provide a source every time you're pulling shit out of your homo ass? ;)
>>2034819
>still refuses to provide citation.
its ok we already assumed you're just talking out of your ass.
go back to your facebook hugbox if you want to anthropomorphise.
>>2034816
still waiting for you to notice you attacked your own side here.
of course now that I've mentioned it you'll be forced to deny it, right? You're not capable of admitting an error....
you two are fun.
>>2034824
[citation needed]
>>2034821
Don't be so edgy. There's no need to be upset. Did you get bullied in you gardening school for special kids again? You can tell us ;)
Don't forget to report and ignore bugcuck posts.
Together we can fight autism.
whats wrong with my birb
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfUjKtI78RE&feature=youtu.be
No clue why he does this but he gets all tense and nervous and screams. Only thing I know is that he does it when he hears the budgie in the other room. I've had them together multiple times to see if he would stop after he sees her but nothing has changed.
also bugguy fuck off
>>2034843
cute birm
>>2034816
provide evidence that consciousness is needed for emotions, and provide evidence that animals have neither
>>2034807
it's almost like you're talking to multiple people
>>2034859
>provide evidence that consciousness is needed for emotions
check the dictionary.
>and provide evidence that animals have neither
it's your claim, I merely replied to you.
if you can't back your claims up I'm automatically right, because if there's no evidence for consciousness it simply isn't there.
very convincing.
>>2034874
if you're right you should be able to provide evidence, your failure to do so doesn't make someone who's claimed nothing wrong
i'm going to go let my cat who loves me, and needs freedom outside now
>>2034843
looks juts like my gcc! mine does the same thing when he's excited to me; I think he's okay.
>>2034878
>if you're right you should be able to provide evidence
the concensus is reached based on the lack of evidence.
you're unable to provide evidence, that automatically makes my point correct.
>someone who's claimed nothing wrong
the mere fact that you're arguing against it already means you think the opposite.
it's your side who has the burden of proof, not mine.
again, it's your religion, it's my work, I don't expect you to understand science.
Works for her living.
>>2032289
Those are cool to watch on acid. Their camouflage is beautiful.
I have a paludarium and I'm about to start working on 2 more soon in my apartment. Are there any bird species that would thrive in a setting like this? I also have a scaredy cat. And would be able to be toilet trained be?
Plez
>>2034882
when opposing sides debate a point evidence on both sides should be presented by each party
>religion
what?
>>2034891
>when opposing sides debate a point evidence on both sides should be presented by each party
no because you're pulling russells teapot.
you're using religious tactics.
anthropomorphising is a religion, belief without evidence.
it's your claim and your claim alone.
>>2034894
again, i haven't claimed anything, you have however an opposing viewpoint to what other people here have stated
but i see you have nothing of value to say same as always
>>2034898
>i haven't claimed anything
doesn't matter.
>the mere fact that you're arguing against it already means you think the opposite.
>you have however an opposing viewpoint
their viewpoint is a religious one, try not to make this into a meaningless religious debate.
you seem to misunderstand what I think, I don't think it's impossible, I don't think there's absolutely nothing there, but what I personally think about it is meaningless, as long as there's no evidence for it it's the concensus that it's not there at all.
I don't debate based on feelings, most of /an/ is the complete opposite.
>>2034865
he always does that
>surely there's only one person who disagrees with me
>>2034882
>it's my work, I don't expect you to understand science.
>is a gardener
my sides. they hurt.
>>2034901
>I don't debate based on feelings
>spergs ot when he's wrong
pick one m8
>>2034907
point out where I'm wrong.
>>2034787
African grey fag here, you are no doubt an ignorant fuckwit whose never been around the animals proposed to have emotion. If I cared enough to please your condescending ass, I'd record my bird exhibiting excitement upon my arrival home, using specific phrases to get across a specific contextual message, which is more intelligence than it is emotion, but still.
>hello as a greeting/recognition of your being there, predicting what I'm doing using noises associated with it, before that noise is made
Exhibiting affection via attempted grooming and such is also common place. I mean it'd be a pain in the ass to set up a camera without it tripping him out, so you'll just have to bare with me.
I hate arrogant people like you who stop seeking out further information once you're satisfied, but continue acting like you're 100% up-to-date and accurate with your so far unseen sources.
Fuck off bugguy, your pseudo-science posturing isn't impressing anyone, go fuck off to /x/, they might get a kick out of it.
>inb4 "wow an anecdote, nice source"
Here's me and my boy a few months ago, suck my dick bug-faggot. You want to rant and rave about how animals have no emotion, post your sources. If you refuse, that shows they're faulty and unreliable, and would invalidate you.
Post
Your
Sources
I posted mine.
>>2034911
>whose never been around the animals proposed to have emotion
anthropomorphising isn't an argument.
>I'd record my bird exhibiting excitement upon my arrival home
thanks but no thanks, I've seen most work on it, my father is a ex-ornithologist.
>who stop seeking out further information once you're satisfied
there's no information to seek.
>I posted mine.
all I see is worthless anecdotes.
>>2034905
>skimming page 1
>read green text
>I bet it's bugguy
>it's bugguy
>>2034912
>there's no information to seek
Wow, what's omniscience like, bugguy? When and how does the earth meet its end?
Seriously though, could you be anymore fucking arrogant? No information to seek? You know it all, huh? Fuck you you fucking pompous braggart.
>all I see is worthless anecdotes
Look who's fucking talking. You've yet to post where you get all your "information". And remember since personal anecdotes aren't good enough, you have to actually post something we can look in to as well. You claim to be a scientific man? Time to submit your findings to a peer review.
>>2034912
Oh yeah, forgot. Here's a reminder of how your all knowing bullshit facade isn't so perfect. God this was an amazing day.
>>2034942
>You've yet to post where you get all your "information".
I don't, that's my point.
your entire argument has no leg to stand on.
go ahead and try to find evidence for your case, you'll realize what my findings were.
>>2034946
stop ruining this thread, post pictures or bird facts or get the fuck out
it is always the EXACT SAME boring conversation you are having about your retarded superiority complex, thinking you are the only one who is aware of the scientific method
>>2034951
stop making baseless claims and I'll stop correcting them.
>>2034951
Report him. Just be careful: mods don't like it when you insult their fucktoy.
Pic related, it's a bird thread.
>>2034946
>I don't, that's my point.
>post sources or i'll shit myself
>never ever cites any recent or relavant paper
Classic bugguy. Stay retarded, stay autistic. Never change.
![article-0-06E0EC56000005DC-33_634x472[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/WpA8axJ.jpg "article-0-06E0EC56000005DC-33_634x472[1].jpg")
>>2034956
Not every conversation is strictly scientific analysis.
Like, when someone says, my dog was happy playing with me today, you don't go: THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT THE DOG POSESS SUBJECTIVITY, THEREFORE YOUR DOG DID NOT ENJOY PLAYING WITH YOU IT IS INCAPABLE OF ENJOYMENT DETERMINATION ERROR PRO. NO. 24235252#####
If birds are capable of subjectivity, they are definitely experiencing emotions. Here. I shortened this whole nonsense for you.
>>2034946
>this blatant hypocrisy
Disgusting
>>2034901
it matters in the sense that half of your ranting was about claims i didn't make
you're making a claim, provide evidence
even when discussing religion an atheist can present facts
>>2034971
>Not every conversation is strictly scientific analysis.
obviously, but that doesn't mean you should go around and anthropomorphise everything.
>If birds are capable of subjectivity, they are definitely experiencing emotions.
but there's no evidence they're capable of it, so as far as it's known they don't.
>>2034985
>you're making a claim
all I've done in the entire thread was reply to claims.
I didn't start this argument, that was you by making claims.
>even when discussing religion an atheist can present facts
they don't have to, neither do I.
>>2034987
it's not that you "have to" it's that you should if you want to get your point across
however, if you don't want to prove your point your point you could just shut up now instead of endless regurgitation of "i don't have to provide any evidence to prove my point everyone else should instead"
we all know what your thoughts are, you've been very clear, and if you feel like that's good enough then there's no need to repeat yourself unless you have something to add
>>2034988
> it's that you should if you want to get your point across
I think doing the opposite would be a better message.
>>2034986
Animals posessing emotions is not anthropomorphiseing. It is a proven fact that all mammals and birds posess neurochemical substances which are behind emotions.
It is a fact that animals display behaviors associated with emotional states.
It is also a fact that consciousness exists in animals.
>>2034991
unfortunately for you what you think doesn't always line up with reality
>>2034994
>neurochemical substances which are behind emotions.
you mean behind instincts.
emotions are the subjective experience of certain instincts, you need consciousness for that, it doesn't matter what 'neurochemical substances' you're experiencing.
>behaviors associated with emotional states.
the same behaviours are associated with instincts.
the only thing that seperates these things is consciousness.
>It is also a fact that consciousness exists in animals.
ofcourse, there's just no evidence of it in all but 1 species of bird.
so as far as we know, they don't have it.
>>2034999
Ravens are proven to have a theory of mind. So do grey parrots.
>>2035000
no, it's been speculated but not demonstrated as far as I know.
wouldn't be suprised if they did, personally, but that means nothing.
stop throwing 'proven' and 'fact' around, absolute facts don't exist in science.
>>2034999
>consciousness
How exactly do you prove that?
>>2035006
you can test components of consciousness.
try reading the thread.
>>2035003
>as far as I know
>relying on a gardener's knowledge on this matter
kek
>>2035006
he thinks the mirror test is the be all end all when it comes to consciousness, he also doesn't seem capable of comprehending that the mirror test has shortcomings
>>2035003
What's the criteria for "demonstration" opposed to "suggest"?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1559847/
>>2035017
pretty good, but you do realize most birds aren't corvids right.
>>2035022
it's only clear in magpies, with the other corvids there's still a lot of speculation going on whether it's actually what they think it is.
>>2035023
But you said there is no evidence, when there clearly is.
>>2035024
there's no evidence for the majority of all birds.
we're talking about birds in general, not individual species.
Is your standard position of animals lacking subjectivity and therefore feelings is a way for you to cope with your mother's past abuse of animals, Bugsy?
I don't know about other birds but mine has emotion. When I give him food he's happy buto when I pinch his toes he bites me
>>2035068
yeah, this is called anthropomorphizing. You interpret a certain behavior as representative of some emotion based on how you'd react to a thing and then pretend that when an animal shows that behavior it must be experiencing the emotion you imagine goes with it.
not to say your bird doesn't feel emotions, but nothing you said indicates it does.
What would be the best birb to get if I wanted to get something that socializes well with everyone, likes to cuddle and can mimic without being annoying?
Assume price is not an issue.
>>2035084
evolution kind of does
>>2035026
Semantics to escape a possible innacuracy? Classic bugguy
>>2035101
>socializes well with everyone, likes to cuddle and can mimic without being annoying?
>mfw
Pick two, and only two. Some have only one of those. A few have literally none.
I love my parrot but his species (African grey, yes I'm still here) is a "one best friend only" kinda bird. They are fine with people, but in general they pick someone as their rock. It's pretty hard to get them to bond equally with two people.
Doesn't mean they hate everyone else, they just don't like them as much.
They don't trust strangers at all unless they're diplomatic, i.e. not load and aggressive.
I learned the hard way that greys growl louder than a Labrador retriever. It's fucking unnerving because they build up to it.
Anyways, I digress, there's no perfect birds anon, but there's some that would probably work fine with your situation. Just research diligently, preferably with multiple sources, and see what there is. I'd start small with a little budgie/parakeet, to learn the ropes so-to-speak
So I have a stupid question, but I need it answered to prove a rhetorical point.
Do birds- and I mean ANY bird, be it chickens, eagles, ostriches, or parakeets- go searching for unfertilized eggs that have been taken from their nest days prior?
The sheer lunacy I'm having this argument is frustrating, because its just common sense that's not how nature works. But do you have any definitive evidence to this effect?
>>2035109
>evolution kind of does
not really.
we know the ability to experience emotions evolved somewhere between point A and point Z because A isn't sentient and Z is.
so you conclude that random point K is where sentience evolved? There is absolutely no reason to think that's true.
sure, it might be true, but there's no reason to think it is. If it was true it's just a lucky guess on your part. What are the odds of you guessing correctly? In this case the odds are 24 to 1 against.
but in reality there have been trillions of birds between the first bird and the current sentient ones, so the odds of you guessing when exactly sentience evolved WITH NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER are trillions to one against.
with those odds it really doesn't matter what you think, you're going to be wrong.
>>2035224
We have no idea at which point sentinence begins, only assume that rocks aren't sentient and humans are.
>>2035101
my green cheek is extremely social, and loves new people and places... she's been happy to let/have strangers pet her and greets new people who are in the house by jumping onto their shoulders, dancing, and preening them... she's also extremely cuddly... like she snuggles with my s/o and i often throughout the day + she's extremely playful
not the best mimic though, at all... she does talk (mostly just "i love you" "baby" "hey baby" and "i love you baby" + kissing noises) but she sounds a bit like an old pull string doll... you know when you can make out what they're saying still but it's not clear... i wouldn't call it annoying though, it's endearing, but if you want a better mimic don't go for that
i've also seen extremely sweet and cuddly handtame budgies (never owned a handtame one, but i'd love to at some point), and males are great talkers/singers (mine both talk a bit, but they prefer trying to make r2d2 sounds), but they're (the males usually) significantly more noisy and usually louder than my green cheek... i enjoy the noise, but i could see why someone might not (females are quieter, but less likely to talk... i did have a female who said "i love you" and could sing well and mimic other noises perfectly but she didn't do any of it often... she'd sing here and there every day, and then every so often she'd just say something perfectly or mimic a noise exactly and then not bother for another month) budgies are good birds though, and they're actually really underrated as pets cuz the way they're sold in stores makes them seem disposable so a lot of people view them that way...
>>2030990
Penguins
>>2035251
>We have no idea at which point sentinence begins
some of us don't anyways.
>>2034787
>stop shitting up threads with your pseudo-science.
please you first
>>2035417
Nobody has any idea when and how it rises.
So I was given a bird feeder as a gift a few months ago. I am not really /an/ or versed in birds but I quite enjoyed watching the random birds go nuts over it during the summer.
Come winter, they slowed down, and I mentioned it to the guy at the hardware store when I was buying bird seeds. He told me to buy a Suet feeder and some blocks for winter birds.
I have had woodpeckers and blue jays and other birds eating the suet like crazy and its been great. Pic related.
My big problem is that they cant seem to eat the bottom quarter or so of the suet block.
They blow through the first 3/4, and then will let the last 1/4 sit for a week. I put the 1/4 blocks on the table under it and they will finish it off that night.
Are the birds being picky?
I have thought about building a new feeder from scratch but with a ledge or a perch on it so that they can easily eat the bottom of the blocks.
From googling it though, it seems that almost none of the commercially made ones have it. From what im reading its to dissuade Starlings from eating the suet.
From what I read Starlings are assholes and bullies to the Jays and woodpeckers.
I havent paid enough attention to know if I have starlings on the feeder now or not.
Am I going to be asking for trouble if I build a feeder with a nice easy ledge to sit on?
I dont want Starlings to ruin the other birds, but my woodpeckers cant seem to finish the whole block in the feeder.
What do you guys think
>>2035552
breh if birds like starlings get an occasion to ruin it for everyone oh boy they will.
they are already getting a shiton more food than they need thanks to you anon, so i guess you don't need to optimise further.
if those are your results in only month,be prepared as past a certain time the birds get really used to it and you got a shiton of them coming to claim the bounty.
>>2034944
Kek
Bugguy confirmed for moron
>>2035552
Starlings are the bird master race.
Birb
>>2035924
Bugsy is much more persistent, than he is smart.
Just adopted new tiel from a mess of a home. Deep development issues and 0 bird behaviors. I've put him in quarantine within sight of my other two (we keep cages open). Anyone have experience teaching a bird to be a bird?
>>2035101
Cockatiels. Not even loud. Make sure to get two.
My favorite birb.
Unfortunately it is not pet-type birb
>How much would it cost to care for a greenwing macaw, say, monthly? For toys and food? After the initial cage and adoption prices. Vet care money is already taken care of.
>Should I socialise him with as many people as possible? Or can I just keep him all to myself, as I'm very much a loner?
>Can he sleep in bed with me? It sounds weird, but since cats and dogs can, I thought why not a macaw.
That being said, I'm aware of the noise, mess, and destruction that comes with this bird.
Hey /an/,
Here is Bebop again. I've had him for about 2 weeks now. He still rarely chirps and is still afraid of my hand. However, sometimes he will hop on my finger and sit there, but eventually he will try to fly away (but his wings were clipped very short, so he just falls down.) Any more tips to help him acclimate to me. It breaks my heart just seeing him sit there all day. He doesn't even play with any of his toys.
>>2037091
>his wings are clipped
>ive brutalized him so that he cannot do the one thing that makes a bird a bird
>why doesnt he love me
>why wont he be happy
>>2037112
Most pet stores clip their wings, and do so the wrong way, too. You're only supposed to clip a couple certain feathers so that the birds can still fly but just not as high or far to keep them out of trouble. Pet stores are fucking idiots that clip ALL the bird's wing feathers, probably only for the sake of making them easier to catch.
>>2037112
I didn't clip his wings. They were clipped before I got him. When he molts, I will keep his feathers unclipped.
My bird freaked out a lot, but you have to be in control. Now we're closer, but he won't let me hold him in my palm like some people can.
my bird :)
>>2037138
cute
>>2037091
he might need a friend, or a space outside of his cage to play with things he can climb on that isn't too high up since his wings were clipped like that... how's his eating?
budgies can take a while to adjust, but not being vocal, playing, happy at all after 2 weeks is pretty unusual honestly... i've had budgies and never had them take more than 2 days to chill out a bit and play whether or not they let me touch them by then... they don't usually seem to be able to resist them, even my budgie that had the hardest time adjusting (he didn't eat the first day, but did the second, and by the third he was behaving normally) still played a little with his toys the first day, and by a week he was used to his spot...
an inactive bird is either sick or depressed, is he taking a lot of naps?how's his posture throughout the day? does he fluff his feathers up often?
when birds haven't been handraised it's harder to just keep them on their own, especially budgies who usually need company and can take a while to warm up to people
if he doesn't seem sick, you should consider getting him a friend, you can tame down two birds at once, they won't bond with you the way a single bird might, but they're still enjoyable to have around and handraised make for better single pets... having a happy bird is better than having a lonely depressed one, and budgies do better in pairs... stress and loneliness do really bad shit to birds, and that's not something you want... they need a lot of company, how much time do you spend with him?
if i were you i'd get him a friend now, and the most i'd wait is another week if there's no improvement...
I think my gcc broke her foot or something. She doesn't seem to be able to use it and it seems swollen. No bleeding though.
I got an appointment with the vet tomorow.
could it just be sprained? he doesn't look in pain and still eats and drinks, albeit with difficulties since he uses one leg to hold his food.
hold me /an/.
>>2037353
He seems physically healthy to me. I spend over 40 minutes a day (spread out) trying to bond with him. I have a little bird playset next to my computer I will sit him on and sing and talk to him.
Here he is when I try to give him some outside the cage time. He is even more uncomfortable outside the cage and keeps trying to fly away to the cage, but he can't fly.
Here is one of the moments he will sit on my hand before hopping away.
>>2037461
Buy him a friend. If you buy a younger. Budgie you can train both of then And it might make him easier to train him and make him trust You
I said fuck it and got another bird. His name is Bowie.
>>2037530
He's not an adult. Still has his baby bars and iris is still black.
>>2037531
his tail is long though + their irises aren't always visible
>>2037533
+ it's definitely not a baby... probably young, but the tail doesn't at all look like a baby budgie tail
>>2034944
>people use my pic of bugguy
wonderful
>>2037565
>people use your pic of my comment to bugguy
ok
>>2034911
Seriously, ignore Bugguy. He's not really worth paying attention to or getting triggered over.
Cute burd, bro.
>>2037645
Fuck off Bruce
what bird is this
I wanna say snipe.
>>2037871
some kind of plover i want to say
>>2037871
Woodcock? Can't tell if it's American or European though.
Pic is the European one.
>>2037990
>woodcock
most likely
>Can't tell if it's American or European though.
does it matter?
I'd go with American anyway, judging by the orange-ish chest
My cockatiel experienced a panic attack and then suddenly just dropped to the ground unable to stand on its legs and not able to move its wings
He hurt his face a bit, and while he was panicking he was hitting the door and walls at a pretty fast rate
It's been approximately 9 hours since this has happened, he pooped twice and both were just white creamy urates with an itsy bitsy drop of blood
Had him drink a little water through a needleless needle
Called my the only 2 available vet clinics in my city
None answered and that was expected since apparently they close at 6pm
It's currently 6 in the morning I slept/was beside him all night trying my best
He seems to have improved as he is able to flap both wings and he keeps attempting to climb up his cage, though he still can't stand on his feet
Like he can move and push a bit with them but he can't stand they're too relaxed
I'm planning on taking him to clinic as soon as they open
>>2038572
thats sosad. hope everything works out for you and your bird.
I like small, fat birds that walk a lot and have long beaks, such as snipes, woodcocks, and plovers.
Would it be easy to keep one as a pet?
>>2038572
Sending you well wishes, bud. I hope he pulls through.
My amazon has come from a few bad homes, glad to say he's bounced back to being a happy mischievous bird
So I realize that CYOAs are traditionally the territory of /tg/, but tell me /an/, who would be your team for the Bird War?
>>2037529
Yay for budgie pals!
>>2039409
TOO LITTLE INFO
That said I'd take three magpies since they are the smartest.
>these are your people
nigger budgies are like plague by themselves, my budgie wrecks everything and has zero fear, and as far as I know they destroy everything in Australia, poison water sources with their poop, annihilate plants and so on.
>>2037529
Yay! Please keep us updated and let us know if he enjoys his new friend.
>>2039860
Forgot photo
>>2037720
>>2037871
Swiggityswooty.jpg
Hawk Head master race.
>>2039883
It came in a toy pack. I cut up a grape and fill the little carriages with pieces of grape.
Baby budgies
>>2039898
2 in middle are same 2 babies grown up couple years old
